RE: Experimental Challenge!!!!!
From: William Beaty posted And Steven Johnson continued Hey, take a look at the thingy I built for a local art gallery: http://amasci.com/art/pondmach/pond3.html Does the length of the strips of light change with the music? Nice Thingy William! I was kinda hoping for Thomas Malloy to post an answer, but being the biggest zealot it's painfully clear his hand is the emptiest. Hum, Heh. People who are absolutely certain that they know the truth are quite irritating to all of us who really know the truth. (Is that a Mark Twain quote wrongly remembered?) Setting Mr. Twain aside might I suggest that there is much we can learn from Mr. Malloy. Yah, I like that. It's not so much about coming to terms with or accepting Mr. Malloy's belief system. It's about acquiring a better understanding of what motivates Mr. Malloy to have acquired the rigid-like belief system he currently follows for it seems quite likely to me that he would feel utterly terrified and lost in this world if he were to suspect there existed a flaw in the intellectual/philosophical boundaries he has constructed and barricaded himself within. My belief system is based on the inerrorance of the Bible. This weekend I attended part of the Understanding the Times Conference sponsored by a local ministry. They have some very interesting interviews available in a RealAudio format on their website www.olivetreeviews.org . One of the speakers was Gary Bauer who ran for the Republican nomination for president. He is quite pro life. While we support the Republicans because half a cup, is better than an empty cup, the politicians who are electable, are too liberal to accomplish any meaningful change. Whalit Shoebat is a former jihadi warrior who read the Bible and accepted Yeshua as his savior. Those who believe in the mythos that Islam is a religion of peace, should listen to the interview that he did with Olive Tree. He agrees with me about the coming war between us and Islam. I highly recommend that you purchase a copy of his address. Any serious Bible scholars will want to purchase a copy of his forth coming book. I also attended Shabot services at our assembly. On the way back to the conference, I listened to a minister go on about how the blood of the aborted fetus' cries out from the ground for vengence. Following the conference, I attended a Hagdala (end of Shabot) service at a friend's house. All together, I rubbed shoulders with over 1000 people who are in basic agreement with my world view. There's nothing like being in the presence of people who share your ideas to reinforce them. Acquiring a better understanding of what is going on here may prove to be crucial for the survival of our planet depending on how prevalent such rigid-like belief systems are through out the rest of the world, regardless of what which religion may have spawned it. I suspect the kind of philosophical rigidity that Mr. Malloy has revealed within Vort may be more prevalent than a lot of us wished it was. You have the misguided idea that things are going to keep on the way they are. Ed Dames, AKA Dr. Doom, is being interviewed on C to C AM. I find him amusing, because I have a black sense of humor. He started out by explaining how he was listening to white noise on an AM radio tuned to nothing when he heard a voice crying for help. He deduced that it was a fetus being aborted. That's just what the radical pro lifers, remember, I'm a moderate among my peers, need some more ammunition. Dr. Doom is predicting a nuclear war on the Korean pensulia with in the next 12 months. If Mr. Malloy is listening in (and I suspect you have been) this message was not meant to patronize you nor treat your beliefs like they were a collection ideological curiosities that need to be dissected into meaningless fragments by of a bunch of secular humanist social scientists. No, I enjoy it. On the other hand, there are individuals within this discussion group who have sincerely attempted to reach out to you, to help you walk through the barriers you have surrounded yourself within. You have to realize that I'm right. They do this not because they think it is some kind of a conspiratorial contest being done at our expense to see who possesses the biggest testicles in some perverted macho attempt to destroy your cherished beliefs. I imagine that they went to college. Some have reached out to you in an attempt to help you survive certain beliefs they perceive as having trapped you rather than freeing you. Because in the end we really are all from the same family - and family members stick by other family members in the best way they can. Thursday night I attended a lecture be Michael Medved, host of the talk show which bears his name. Part of the ticket included an autographed copy of his new book, Right Turns. I had him wish me a happy civil new year, we like new years so much that we have two of them on the
RE: Experimental Challenge!!!!!
Cool! -j -Original Message- From: William Beaty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:12 PM To: Keith Nagel Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Experimental Challenge! I've been in an emotional low for the last few years, which greatly affects my creativity... and my posting frequency. Years ago when I read peoples' posts I would have ten ideas and ambition to send them out. Today most often I have zero ideas and less ambition. Using email is like pulling teeth. In the last few months it's improving though. Hey, take a look at the thingy I built for a local art gallery: http://amasci.com/art/pondmach/pond3.html I was kinda hoping for Thomas Malloy to post an answer, but being the biggest zealot it's painfully clear his hand is the emptiest. Heh. People who are absolutely certain that they know the truth are quite irritating to all of us who really know the truth. (Is that a Mark Twain quote wrongly remembered?) (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 05/04/07
RE: Experimental Challenge!!!!!
Hi Thomas. you write: My belief system is based on the inerrorance of the Bible. Every time you write this ( and you always do ), it completely cracks me up. The word is INERRANCY Thomas, not inerrorance. Perhaps the bible is inerrant; but clearly you are not. Your understanding of it certainly is not. You seem not to have even read the New Testament. K.
Re: Experimental challenge
I choose not to get into a p*iss*ng contest with Keith and Ed over religious beliefs. I stated my thoughts. As for the state of the nation, I suggest that Washington is the place where it is not nearly as important to win as it is to make sure the other guylooses. As for laws of the land, the NY attorney Eliot Spitzer has carried the water for the US Justice Dept in pursuing Wall Street and the Insurance companies.He hasn't been able to penetrate the banking industry which means its only showtime. As for the Presidency, Look back to LBJ and the war in Nam and the resultant Hippie culture revealed so well in the finger that Bill gave us all on TV. The office was always a figurehead position, a bully pulpit.. but.. even that has given way to the lobbyists power demonstrated in the pure raw power of money. When the leaders of our nation degrade the office of presidency to thepresent state, the nation responds with Enron, etc Monkey see, monkey do.That is what we are witnessing today. This presidency has transcended the finger with .." money alone talks" and whatever it takes to get by one more day. Forget the future! Sometimes I believe the best weathervane is Warren Buffett. Consider AIG moved all their cash to Barbados and made a deal with Buffett. Eliot Spitzer can't touch Buffett without bringing down the house of cards described as " derivatives" Follow the money.. Buffett bought Geico. Using Geico, General Re was purchased. General Re is in the"funny money" business. General Re made a deal with AIG's funnymoney affiliate. With these two units alone ,we are talking 75 trillion dollars in derivatives. What you bet that Buffett has already converted a large portion into currency offshore? How ? you ask.. by printing more derivatives. Even Al Greenspan admitted he doesn't understand them, they are outside the framework of the security statutes and out of control of the Fed. Poor Eliot Spitzer lifted the lid, got a smell and .. there is large chasm in the middle of the road ahead. I was in business the last time it happened in 1973. LBJ tried to run the Nam war on credit. Bush is making the same mistake ..but this time we are talking "real money". So where do I stand on politics? There is no place left to stand. Richard Explanation of derivatives. You want to borrow some money... don't go to a bank, go to someone else that wants to borrow some money. You give him an IOU for a billion dollars and he gives you one. Take the IOU to a public stock corporation that needs to show a big profit in order to increase share value. Trade a billion dollars in derivatives (IOU's)to them for a 100 milion in worthless stock so they can show a 900 million dollar book profit. The stock goes through the roof and the public stock corporation dumps the derivative on the world market. The world market for derivatives is controlled by people that know how to play the great game. If you want towatch the masters of the game .. study Fortis.. this is where Buffett got the idea for General Re. Blank Bkgrd.gif
RE: Experimental Challenge!!!!!
From: William Beaty ... Hey, take a look at the thingy I built for a local art gallery: http://amasci.com/art/pondmach/pond3.html Nice Thingy William! I was kinda hoping for Thomas Malloy to post an answer, but being the biggest zealot it's painfully clear his hand is the emptiest. Heh. People who are absolutely certain that they know the truth are quite irritating to all of us who really know the truth. (Is that a Mark Twain quote wrongly remembered?) Setting Mr. Twain aside might I suggest that there is much we can learn from Mr. Malloy. It's not so much about coming to terms with or accepting Mr. Malloy's belief system. It's about acquiring a better understanding of what motivates Mr. Malloy to have acquired the rigid-like belief system he currently follows for it seems quite likely to me that he would feel utterly terrified and lost in this world if he were to suspect there existed a flaw in the intellectual/philosophical boundaries he has constructed and barricaded himself within. Acquiring a better understanding of what is going on here may prove to be crucial for the survival of our planet depending on how prevalent such rigid-like belief systems are through out the rest of the world, regardless of what which religion may have spawned it. I suspect the kind of philosophical rigidity that Mr. Malloy has revealed within Vort may be more prevalent than a lot of us wished it was. If Mr. Malloy is listening in (and I suspect you have been) this message was not meant to patronize you nor treat your beliefs like they were a collection ideological curiosities that need to be dissected into meaningless fragments by of a bunch of secular humanist social scientists. On the other hand, there are individuals within this discussion group who have sincerely attempted to reach out to you, to help you walk through the barriers you have surrounded yourself within. They do this not because they think it is some kind of a conspiratorial contest being done at our expense to see who possesses the biggest testicles in some perverted macho attempt to destroy your cherished beliefs. Some have reached out to you in an attempt to help you survive certain beliefs they perceive as having trapped you rather than freeing you. Because in the end we really are all from the same family - and family members stick by other family members in the best way they can. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com
Re: Experimental Challenge!!!!!
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Keith Nagel wrote: I'll give everyone a day or two to respond to the list, and if ANYONE can post something which has some remote whiff of truth to it, I'll post the experiment and you can all do it for yourselves and see what I'm talking about. Everyone talks about Bog, but how many of you people dare to actually experiment with it? Well, I've had my nose repeatedly rubbed in the fact that I barely exist, and most of the worthwhile things I've done have happened by accident when I managed to get out of the way and not let my ego interfere by distorting them and then trying to take credit. I hear people speak phrases like It was not done BY me, it was done THROUGH me. ...or each of us is far vaster than we imagine. These phrases communicate the ideas only very poorly. They must have been first spoken by people who had similar experiences, but they don't at all describe the experiences... instead, AFTER we've had the experiences, we can say Ah, THAT'S what that phrase means. I had no idea. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: Experimental Challenge!!!!!
when you go into your church, you talk about god. when we go into our teepee we talk TO god. - Chief Seattle - Apparently that's a fake quote, written in 1974. Most Chief Seattle quotes were taken from an article manufactured by an author who was writing a Hollywood-ized movie script. The fake speech is full of a 60s and 70s counterculture save the earth belief-system. Check out these two versions below and note the difference. No one took dictation during the original 1854 speech, but someone tried to reproduce it from notes: Chief Sealth's 1854 speech, reconstructed from notes at the time http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/ejournal/smith.htm Here's the fake version which has spread all over the internet: http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/ejournal/seattle.htm Reading this reconstructed original, it makes me see the 1974 movie script as an act of selfish desecration; as white-man politics silencing Chief Sealth and putting our own words in their place. Sealth said whites and indians have two different gods. The movie script says our god is the same god. Seattle says the indians are dying out and will soon be gone. The movie script goes on about whites polluting the earth, killing buffaloe, etc., and says nothing about: And when the last Red Man shall have perished, and the memory of my tribe shall have become a myth among the White Men, these shores will swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children think themselves alone in the field, the store, the shop, upon the highway, or in the silence of the pathless woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night when the streets of your cities and villages are silent and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled them and still love this beautiful land. The White Man will never be alone. Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not powerless. Dead, did I say? There is no death, only a change of worlds. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
RE: Experimental Challenge!!!!!
Hi Bill. You write: Well, I've had my nose repeatedly rubbed in the fact that I barely exist Perhaps you should post to your list more than once every two months. you're ignoring us, not the other way around... Seriously, I understand what you're saying, it's not quite what I had in mind, but good 'nuff. Intentional ego death is a good way to get your conscious brain into the appropriate state. I was kinda hoping for Thomas Malloy to post an answer, but being the biggest zealot it's painfully clear his hand is the emptiest. I'll post tomorrow. Still some time, Tom. K. PS: Didn't see that Chief Seattle quote in either speech. It was sad reading, surely, as Jed points out most folks on the short end of the stick come to realize that old Bog first helps those who help themselves.
Re: experimental challenge
RC Macaulay wrote: Where are the atheists and where are their good works? You are the one that needs the challenge presented to yourself. The atheists have brought our nation WHAT? That is TOO easy. Altogether too easy and irresistible. As I pointed out before, ~70% of scientists are atheists. That has long been the case. It was true in the 19th century, and especially in Europe. The very top, creme de la creme of science today and for the past century has been roughly 90% atheist. In other words, just about every important scientific and technological improvement made during the last 200 years was brought to you mainly by atheists, such as Darwin and Edison. The deists also contributed, naturally. When the argument degenerates to this level, it is time to call a halt. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts, as Moynihan put it. - Jed
RE: experimental challenge
Absolutely true! Admittedly, some of my first experiences were "inside the teepee" so to speak with a combination of organic mescaline and codeine. I could not name it until relatively recently when I began to study gnosticism. You are lucky that the HRCC does not wield the military power they once did because what you speak is heretical! I'm intrigued . . . what's your experiment?Keith Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am suggesting to you that, contrary to your organized religious teachings,it is possible to have a direct personal experience of the divine.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: experimental challenge
Keith, No need to prove God, you may foolishly attempt to prove there is no God. God is a spirit and must be worshiped in the spirit by faith. The first commandment of God is to love Him with all your heart, soul, might and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. If you desire to test God, I advise against it. If you want a fair and enlightening challenge it is.. Ask God in prayer that you want to know Him and love Him more each day of your life. If you are sincere in your request, you will have all the challenge you will ever need. As stated before, each must find his own way. There are some admonitions to help such as .. everyone is responsible for their own actions. When attempting to prove there is no God... consider how good works are a product of faith and ask yourself how many hospitals, schools, Universities,charatible programs and all the good works done daily worldwide by people that have the laws of God written on their hearts... Where are the atheists and where are their good works? You are the one that needs the challenge presented to yourself. The atheists have brought our nation WHAT? State ONE good works by atheists. Your challenge is thrown back into your face. Richard Blank Bkgrd.gif
RE: experimental challenge
Hi RC, You didn't understand my post at all, did you? Please re-read it. I am suggesting to you that, contrary to your organized religious teachings, it is possible to have a direct personal experience of the divine. How you get from this statement to Keith is trying to disprove god is a great mystery to me. You seem to me to be the atheist RC. You suggest that it is impossible to have the direct experience. I say you can. For the moment, I'll check you as undecided. K. when you go into your church, you talk about god. when we go into our teepee we talk TO god. - Chief Seattle - -Original Message- From: RC Macaulay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: experimental challenge Keith, No need to prove God, you may foolishly attempt to prove there is no God. God is a spirit and must be worshiped in the spirit by faith. The first commandment of God is to love Him with all your heart, soul, might and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. If you desire to test God, I advise against it. If you want a fair and enlightening challenge it is.. Ask God in prayer that you want to know Him and love Him more each day of your life. If you are sincere in your request, you will have all the challenge you will ever need. As stated before, each must find his own way. There are some admonitions to help such as .. everyone is responsible for their own actions. When attempting to prove there is no God... consider how good works are a product of faith and ask yourself how many hospitals, schools, Universities, charatible programs and all the good works done daily worldwide by people that have the laws of God written on their hearts... Where are the atheists and where are their good works? You are the one that needs the challenge presented to yourself. The atheists have brought our nation WHAT? State ONE good works by atheists. Your challenge is thrown back into your face. Richard
