Re: [Vo]:E-cat Lugano demo probably had no output.
done, not much point in doing more exhaustive calculations without better knowledge of construction and dimensions, but the big guess with regard to wire area doesn't make much if any difference considering nature of black body cavity receiving surface that is inner wall of finned tube. I think the conclusion that the finned wall is only around 1000°C is pretty strong, so I'll be interested to see what if any response or objections are stacked up. I am hugely excited about the prospects of LENR - and actually stand to do very well commercially from it, but this first-principles evaluation of the Lugano test makes it look like it was another bust with at best very low COP :( A curse upon perpetrators of poor calorimetry! On 13 October 2014 18:46, Marcus Haber tr...@gmx.de wrote: Hello Robert! Why dont u go over to http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/722-Ask-questions-to-the-Working-Group-ECAT-long-term-test/?postID=1386#post1386 and tell the professors doing the test about ur concerns regarding the temperature measurement? But maybe it would be helpful to do some real calculations first. Coming with crude ones is probably not enough... Regards Marcus *Gesendet:* Montag, 13. Oktober 2014 um 07:11 Uhr *Von:* Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com *An:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Betreff:* [Vo]:E-cat Lugano demo probably had no output. Appears that there was an inner reactor vessel wrapped with helical resistance wires (hence shadows) from size of wires and necessary wall thicknesses this vessel is likely around 12mm diameter. Inner wall area of outer finned tube about Ø18mm, 0.2m long .0113m² Inconel metal resistance wires can only survive a maximum of about 1350°C without melting (actually probably lower than that over a month long period) From photo 12a/12b the wires appear to be covering less than half of the core reactor vessel, giving them an area of (estimate) .005m² (this is only a guess) We know that they dissipate 900W of electricity, and inconel has emissivity of around 0.7. In order for finned tube inner wall to absorb 900W from the wires at 1350°C they would need to be around 1000°C. At that temperature they would also transfer approximately 900W to the external environment via radiation and convection. If the inner reactor was any hotter or adding any heat to the system then it would necessarily increase the finned tube wall temperature to increase dissipation to environment, that would in turn increase the wire temperature greatly, including a further bump from the radiative heat transfer from reactor to resistance wires, increasing their temperature to far above the point of failure. These numbers are only approximate (this is a crude calculation only), but I think that quantitatively at least it appears that there is a strong possibility that this demo was producing little if any power, based on pretty simple physical constraints. And most certainly not the 3.8 COP claimed. As to the explanation for the high temp readings - I suspect the IR camera was picking up the colour of the resistance wires and inner reactor vessel body through the partially transparent alumina to give an artificially high temperature reading.
Re: [Vo]:E-cat Lugano demo probably had no output.
I've just realised that if my no-LENR output power conclusion is sound, then Rossi is in serious trouble trying to explain the Ni62 ash. Could be the end of him. On 13 October 2014 20:11, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: done, not much point in doing more exhaustive calculations without better knowledge of construction and dimensions, but the big guess with regard to wire area doesn't make much if any difference considering nature of black body cavity receiving surface that is inner wall of finned tube. I think the conclusion that the finned wall is only around 1000°C is pretty strong, so I'll be interested to see what if any response or objections are stacked up. I am hugely excited about the prospects of LENR - and actually stand to do very well commercially from it, but this first-principles evaluation of the Lugano test makes it look like it was another bust with at best very low COP :( A curse upon perpetrators of poor calorimetry! On 13 October 2014 18:46, Marcus Haber tr...@gmx.de wrote: Hello Robert! Why dont u go over to http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/722-Ask-questions-to-the-Working-Group-ECAT-long-term-test/?postID=1386#post1386 and tell the professors doing the test about ur concerns regarding the temperature measurement? But maybe it would be helpful to do some real calculations first. Coming with crude ones is probably not enough... Regards Marcus *Gesendet:* Montag, 13. Oktober 2014 um 07:11 Uhr *Von:* Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com *An:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Betreff:* [Vo]:E-cat Lugano demo probably had no output. Appears that there was an inner reactor vessel wrapped with helical resistance wires (hence shadows) from size of wires and necessary wall thicknesses this vessel is likely around 12mm diameter. Inner wall area of outer finned tube about Ø18mm, 0.2m long .0113m² Inconel metal resistance wires can only survive a maximum of about 1350°C without melting (actually probably lower than that over a month long period) From photo 12a/12b the wires appear to be covering less than half of the core reactor vessel, giving them an area of (estimate) .005m² (this is only a guess) We know that they dissipate 900W of electricity, and inconel has emissivity of around 0.7. In order for finned tube inner wall to absorb 900W from the wires at 1350°C they would need to be around 1000°C. At that temperature they would also transfer approximately 900W to the external environment via radiation and convection. If the inner reactor was any hotter or adding any heat to the system then it would necessarily increase the finned tube wall temperature to increase dissipation to environment, that would in turn increase the wire temperature greatly, including a further bump from the radiative heat transfer from reactor to resistance wires, increasing their temperature to far above the point of failure. These numbers are only approximate (this is a crude calculation only), but I think that quantitatively at least it appears that there is a strong possibility that this demo was producing little if any power, based on pretty simple physical constraints. And most certainly not the 3.8 COP claimed. As to the explanation for the high temp readings - I suspect the IR camera was picking up the colour of the resistance wires and inner reactor vessel body through the partially transparent alumina to give an artificially high temperature reading.
RE: [Vo]:E-cat Lugano demo probably had no output.
From: Robert Lynn These numbers are only approximate (this is a crude calculation only), but I think that quantitatively at least it appears that there is a strong possibility that this demo was producing little if any power, based on pretty simple physical constraints. And most certainly not the 3.8 COP claimed. Robert, Thank you for an excellent physical analysis of this reactor. You comments are head-and-shoulders above anyone else’s who has posted on this reactor. I only wish your complete analysis could be written up into a concise rebuttal to the Levi fiasco. Others with you skills who have studied the report have said that there is probably slight gain, especially since so much power is being wasted on the electrical leads which does not get measured. A good estimate is about 900 watt in electrical and 1300 watts out as thermal. As to the explanation for the high temp readings - I suspect the IR camera was picking up the colour of the resistance wires and inner reactor vessel body through the partially transparent alumina to give an artificially high temperature reading. The huge problem here is the sloppiness of the experiment and the fact that the samples which were used for isotope analysis have clearly been compromised. This report makes it clear to me that Rossi was cheating - and Levi and the Swedes are dupes, who did not question the maestro. He is an intimidating personality and he was there at the start and at the finish. The fact that he missed the intervening 30 days of data collection means nothing. I hope the field of LENR will survive this disaster. All my hope now has shifted to the Mizuno presentation in November. attachment: winmail.dat
