Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
I have always been a Black Box kind of guy and approached problem solving in a binary divide and conquer approach. That way you make little assumptions and just go with what the test data shows as the incorrect or correct pathway. I fully expect to sign a NDA and to put money into an Escrow account when we agree on the test protocols for the initial E-Cat test and for the final plant test. Under those conditions Rossi should agree to any test I ask for as when I take delivery I can do anything that I like in the way of testing. I'm under no illusions as to what I may find as I 100% know this is a heavy work in progress product. Just look at the E-Cats inside the container to those on the roof. Here I assume the roof top mounted units are a later build as they appear to have a different tubing and wiring connection system than the internal units, which were installed earlier. I expect the current E-Cat module build is different to any we have seen. One thing you can say about Rossi is he does not spend much time sitting in his chair. Well stirred buckets of water and long glass thermometers work well. Then diving into the digital pool, my digital scope does area under the square power measurements. I'll also be checking earth currents to be sure there are no injected currents happening there as well as monitoring the Frequencies. Sure this will all be under NDA, but I have every right as a customer with money in a Escrow account to do every test I deem necessary. I can assure you, when the 100 kW plant arrives in OZ, even more testing will be done as I'm sure Rossi knows will happen. What I can report I will but I do respect NDAs and Commercial in Confidence arrangements. AG On 11/20/2011 6:19 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote: The critical point is to properly treat it as a black box. Don't get distracted with E-Cat temperature, pressure, etc. You can take additional data points, but don't rely on any measurements taken from INSIDE Rossi's system. What you NEED: You need good-and-proper input power measurements (logged voltage and a thru-line ammeter, if possible), secondary water flow, and higher secondary delta T (again, I'd use bucket-diversions to double-check your thermocouples). If you get those data points reliably, then you just need sufficient time to rule out chemical energy. If you have a choice, test it in a driven mode, without any of the self-sustaining B.S. I sincerely wish you the best, but I'd wager good money that he would not allow such definitive testing. Let us know what you find out.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
I'm with Robert L. I don't think you will ever be offered a test. But if you are, I'll be happy to talk with you by phone and make very detailed suggestions for making sure your tests are valid --if you'd like. The first and foremost suggestion is to allow Rossi to supply NOTHING except the E-cat and maybe the frequency generator whatever that is-- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I can't emphasize that too much. You will need to plan for your own power supply (Rossi to supply specifications), power input measuring equipment, coolant circuit -- keep it liquid-- no steam, no heat exchanger-- and all your own flow meters and temperature measuring devices. More details if you actually get a scheduled appointment for the test-- as much detail as you need. YOU not Rossi will need to decide how long to run and you will need enough people to make sure it goes several days or more. I was tempted to do this myself (order a 100 kW machine) but I don't really need to tie up $200K for a long time and I don't think Rossi is really selling the E-cats. One interesting detail -- what is the frequencies device and who provides that but it doesn't matter where that comes from as long as you check what's in it, and most of all, it's electrical power consumption. Good going. I hope you get an E-cat. I doubt that you will.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
Amazing statements. Again with no basis in fact. Just more straw man totally negative spin stuff. I've been a power system engineer for probably longer than you have been alive. I do know how to construct a test of the E-Cat. I have also been used by several patent attorneys and investor groups around Australia to devise tests for OU devices, which I should add the inventors never agreed to. What information I can share as I move through the process I will share. However that is not the intent of the process. My intent is to make money from the E-Cat. AG On 11/20/2011 6:59 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: I'm with Robert L. I don't think you will ever be offered a test. But if you are, I'll be happy to talk with you by phone and make very detailed suggestions for making sure your tests are valid --if you'd like. The first and foremost suggestion is to allow Rossi to supply NOTHING except the E-cat and maybe the frequency generator whatever that is-- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I can't emphasize that too much. You will need to plan for your own power supply (Rossi to supply specifications), power input measuring equipment, coolant circuit -- keep it liquid-- no steam, no heat exchanger-- and all your own flow meters and temperature measuring devices. More details if you actually get a scheduled appointment for the test-- as much detail as you need. YOU not Rossi will need to decide how long to run and you will need enough people to make sure it goes several days or more. I was tempted to do this myself (order a 100 kW machine) but I don't really need to tie up $200K for a long time and I don't think Rossi is really selling the E-cats. One interesting detail -- what is the frequencies device and who provides that but it doesn't matter where that comes from as long as you check what's in it, and most of all, it's electrical power consumption. Good going. I hope you get an E-cat. I doubt that you will.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
Am 20.11.2011 09:47, schrieb Aussie Guy E-Cat: Amazing statements. Again with no basis in fact. Just more straw man totally negative spin stuff. I've been a power system engineer for probably longer than you have been alive. I do know how to construct a test of the E-Cat. I have also been used by several patent attorneys and investor groups around Australia to devise tests for OU devices, which I should add the inventors never agreed to. What information I can share as I move through the process I will share. However that is not the intent of the process. My intent is to make money from the E-Cat. Remember Henry Ford. He had the philosophy that making money is second priority. First make a working product. Then sell it and make money. Possibly contact Defkalion. They write they will accept all tests demanded by the customer. With their current announcements, if true, the investment into Rossis technology could be a mistake, because he shows no willingness to do conclusive testing or cooperation on the technical aspects. Peter
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
A working and reliable product with back-up and support is everything. I'm a Black Box kind of guy who has been a engineer long enough to know that both devices are very early stage work in progress. I don't expect to see what I would see if I visited ABB or GE. Have opened up a channel to Defkalion. This could be a good match with a diathermic oil based LENR heat generator: http://www.ge-energy.com/products_and_services/services/oil_and_gas_services/oregen.jsp AG On 11/20/2011 10:26 PM, Peter Heckert wrote: Am 20.11.2011 09:47, schrieb Aussie Guy E-Cat: Amazing statements. Again with no basis in fact. Just more straw man totally negative spin stuff. I've been a power system engineer for probably longer than you have been alive. I do know how to construct a test of the E-Cat. I have also been used by several patent attorneys and investor groups around Australia to devise tests for OU devices, which I should add the inventors never agreed to. What information I can share as I move through the process I will share. However that is not the intent of the process. My intent is to make money from the E-Cat. Remember Henry Ford. He had the philosophy that making money is second priority. First make a working product. Then sell it and make money. Possibly contact Defkalion. They write they will accept all tests demanded by the customer. With their current announcements, if true, the investment into Rossis technology could be a mistake, because he shows no willingness to do conclusive testing or cooperation on the technical aspects. Peter
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
I look forward to seeing your postings when you return. You are being cautious as you should by relying upon the escrow account and Rossi is wise in proposing this procedure. There should be no major surprises. My concern is that the control electronics may not quite be up to par yet, but I think you are capable of determining its status quickly. Dave -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:11 am Subject: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat lant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for roviding the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that elped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, unds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a -Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum. My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test f a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre elivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min OP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds. I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and odel) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat est measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp anges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the eat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do he delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger nd digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input nergy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat. From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted hrough the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so hey are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside all of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45 eg insertion angle acceptable? AG
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
Those are excellent suggestions. One consideration about the flow rate. Since you are ordering and I presume testing a 100 kW system, the delta temperature will be many times larger than the one tested on October 6 at the rate used then. I suggest that it would be wise to set the output flow rate to achieve a delta temperature of say 20 to 30 C as the target. We can assist you in determining the flow rate that should accomplish that goal ahead of time if you like. Also, which power rating are you ordering from Rossi? Is it the driven level or the self sustaining one? Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:24 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T. hen, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically emptied), ith the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple inside of the nput water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line to double-check by emptying some into a basin as well) Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum. My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds. I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat. From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45 deg insertion angle acceptable? AG
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
I wish you the best in your efforts. Is it confirmed yet? Personally I think Rossi has moved LENR ahead and has something very exciting, but not yet ready for prime time. (I am excited by defkalion-energy's statements and I suspect they have moved Rossi's invention even farther.) You clearly know how to test something such as this and I cannot add expertise in this regard. However, from a logic point of view, please consider testing 3 domains. - Startup: I amazed that Rossi can get his e-cat started on demand, even if there is sometime seemingly delays. So is there some sort of protocol or is it just get things up to temperature and wait and hope? - Operation: clearly a longer term test measuring input energy versus output is all that is needed (a black box) and ignoring some of the silliness regarding blanks. (I think the non self sustained is a better approach as it implies more control and longer term) - Control: The frequency generator seems to be a latecomer to his invention, but in any case, if Rossi can actually control the reation rate this changes the worl immediately. Wow! If you can get in the door and verify this, you will be Rossi's savior as he is blowing the business end big time. On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:11 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I look forward to seeing your postings when you return. You are being cautious as you should by relying upon the escrow account and Rossi is wise in proposing this procedure. There should be no major surprises. My concern is that the control electronics may not quite be up to par yet, but I think you are capable of determining its status quickly. Dave -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:11 am Subject: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum. My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds. I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat. From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45 deg insertion angle acceptable? AG
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
On 2011-11-20 08:08, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. [...] Just to be clearer: have you only asked Rossi that you're interested in purchasing an E-Cat plant, or has he already replied back and agreed for a meeting? Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
COP 6 powered mode. The first test I will request is of a single E-Cat module and then when the 100 kW plant is ready to roll out, return to do another test. I expect to learn a lot in the first test and will be better able to tailor the 100 kW test protocol. We are on the same page with the 25 deg C delta T for the first single E-Cat test. Hard to cock that up. Well lets hope so. The 100 kW test plant will be using diathermic oil, so we will fab up a recycling system with a similar, flow load wise, heat exchanger that we will use in Oz. AG On 11/21/2011 2:53 AM, David Roberson wrote: Those are excellent suggestions. One consideration about the flow rate. Since you are ordering and I presume testing a 100 kW system, the delta temperature will be many times larger than the one tested on October 6 at the rate used then. I suggest that it would be wise to set the output flow rate to achieve a delta temperature of say 20 to 30 C as the target. We can assist you in determining the flow rate that should accomplish that goal ahead of time if you like. Also, which power rating are you ordering from Rossi? Is it the driven level or the self sustaining one? Dave
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: COP 6 powered mode. The first test I will request is of a single E-Cat module and then when the 100 kW plant is ready to roll out, return to do another test. I expect to learn a lot in the first test and will be better able to tailor the 100 kW test protocol. We are on the same page with the 25 deg C delta T for the first single E-Cat test. Hard to cock that up. Well lets hope so. The 100 kW test plant will be using diathermic oil, so we will fab up a recycling system with a similar, flow load wise, heat exchanger that we will use in Oz. On your test of the single module, if you use Rossi's October 6 setup to measure, how do you plan to make sure the measurements you acquire from the heat exchanger reflect the enthalpy accurately and are not due to such things as errors in thermocouple placement? And do you recall what NASA's Michael A. Nelson, quoted in Krivit's blog via an FOI request, said? It was that you should test an ottoman sized (Oct 6) device for 2 or more weeks (with a substantial sustained output of excess power) to rule out stored or chemical energy from conventional fuels. I think that's a bit pessimistic but I also think 24 hours is probably not long enough. Here's the link to the (I think official) NASA slide: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/10/nasa-engineer-explains-why-rossi-demos-failed/ As for what you say of your credentials and considering how you view all of this, I'd respond that I find it scary. But that's another issue entirely. I think your asking to buy an E-cat is a really good idea and I wish you the best of good luck in getting a test soon. Of course, I don't think you will.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a 100 kW plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it will take several days to get an initial reply and to start the NDA / contract / agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just about totally shuts down over Christmas and New Years for at least 2 weeks. It is our summer break and no one is at work. So I expect I'm pushing it up a steep hill to expect to get over to Bologna before Christmas. But I may get lucky. AG On 11/21/2011 3:06 AM, Akira Shirakawa wrote: On 2011-11-20 08:08, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. [...] Just to be clearer: have you only asked Rossi that you're interested in purchasing an E-Cat plant, or has he already replied back and agreed for a meeting? Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a 100 kW plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it will take several days to get an initial reply and to start the NDA / contract / agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just about totally shuts down over Christmas and New Years for at least 2 weeks. It is our summer break and no one is at work. So I expect I'm pushing it up a steep hill to expect to get over to Bologna before Christmas. But I may get lucky. If you have to sign an NDA, you may want to negotiate to exclude any provisions which preclude you from saying when you receive a device and/or are allowed to test it, the test method and the test result. There is no reason to include such stuff in an NDA and only a scammer would do so. I believe that is what Steorn did and it's why the Steorn investors have never been heard from.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
On 2011-11-20 18:07, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a 100 kW plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it will take several days to get an initial reply and to start the NDA / contract / agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just about totally shuts down over Christmas and New Years for at least 2 weeks. It is our summer break and no one is at work. So I expect I'm pushing it up a steep hill to expect to get over to Bologna before Christmas. But I may get lucky. Ah, I see. Thanks for your reply. It looked as if everybody assumed that you were surely going to Bologna as a customer testing an E-Cat module in a matter of days. But as you say, Rossi has yet to approve your purchase proposal. Please do keep us informed on the process. In my opinion he really should accept, though. That a Vortex-l member tested and purchased a 100 kW E-Cat plant, sharing as many details as he could (to the extents of what NDAs allow) would boost up Rossi's credibility a lot and attract much interest around. Between me and you, please consider using this as a leverage for your proposal:) Besides, hasn't he repeated all along that it's up to the market to judge whether it works or not? Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
I have been in business long enough to understand NDAs. I have my own for Rossi to sign as well and it has teeth as I'm sure his does. Then there are the product warranties and guarantees and what happens if a breach / default event occurs, which we will draft. It may be only $200k but it is my $200k and I don't like losing money buying a crappy product. AG On 11/21/2011 3:41 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a 100 kW plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com mailto:i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it will take several days to get an initial reply and to start the NDA / contract / agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just about totally shuts down over Christmas and New Years for at least 2 weeks. It is our summer break and no one is at work. So I expect I'm pushing it up a steep hill to expect to get over to Bologna before Christmas. But I may get lucky. If you have to sign an NDA, you may want to negotiate to exclude any provisions which preclude you from saying when you receive a device and/or are allowed to test it, the test method and the test result. There is no reason to include such stuff in an NDA and only a scammer would do so. I believe that is what Steorn did and it's why the Steorn investors have never been heard from.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:08 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. Wasn't someone here saying that Rossi doesn't inspire confidence? This takes confidence, I'd say.
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T. Then, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically emptied), with the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple inside of the input water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line to double-check (by emptying some into a basin as well) Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum. My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds. I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat. From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45 deg insertion angle acceptable? AG
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
Please ask for two E-Cats to be tested. One with hydrogen and one without hydrogen. In all the tests that have been done so far, there has not been a control used. A test with a control would blow away the thermal inertia hypothesis. It would also confirm beyond a doubt that the E-Cat with hydrogen is producing excess energy. From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:08 AM Subject: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum. My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds. I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat. From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45 deg insertion angle acceptable? AG
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
I intend to use a digital flow rate monitor, inserted into the intake water hose. The data logger will record 16 input and output data points every 100 ms or finer if necessary. Amazing what GB memories can do. Thanks for the lower flow rate and use of a bucket / basin for secondary checking suggestion. Always nice to double check the digitals, being an OLD analog (magazine and technology) man who, when first touching a CK722 transistor, said WTF? AG On 11/20/2011 5:51 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote: For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T. Then, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically emptied), with the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple inside of the input water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line to double-check (by emptying some into a basin as well) Aussie Guy E-Cataussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum. My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds. I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat. From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45 deg insertion angle acceptable? AG
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
The critical point is to properly treat it as a black box. Don't get distracted with E-Cat temperature, pressure, etc. You can take additional data points, but don't rely on any measurements taken from INSIDE Rossi's system. What you NEED: You need good-and-proper input power measurements (logged voltage and a thru-line ammeter, if possible), secondary water flow, and higher secondary delta T (again, I'd use bucket-diversions to double-check your thermocouples). If you get those data points reliably, then you just need sufficient time to rule out chemical energy. If you have a choice, test it in a driven mode, without any of the self-sustaining B.S. I sincerely wish you the best, but I'd wager good money that he would not allow such definitive testing. Let us know what you find out. Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I intend to use a digital flow rate monitor, inserted into the intake water hose. The data logger will record 16 input and output data points every 100 ms or finer if necessary. Amazing what GB memories can do. Thanks for the lower flow rate and use of a bucket / basin for secondary checking suggestion. Always nice to double check the digitals, being an OLD analog (magazine and technology) man who, when first touching a CK722 transistor, said WTF? AG On 11/20/2011 5:51 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote: For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T. Then, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically emptied), with the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple inside of the input water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line to double-check (by emptying some into a basin as well) Aussie Guy E-Cataussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum. My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds. I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat. From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45 deg insertion angle acceptable? AG
