Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Hi Ed, I got lost trying to address everything so am just going to focus on this paragraph [snip] Just how the field can cause a force is difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia. This seems to be an odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet, if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum when a small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. I see no connection between the behaviors.[/snip] I feel your pain because the creation of a real photon is one of the possibilities that suppression of vacuum wavelengths can lead to as demonstrated by recent experiments with SQUIDS cited by Jones.. It can also lead to anomalous radioactive decay of gases exposed to the confinement. According to Cavity QEDhttp://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf by Zofia Bialynicka-Birula it also breaks the isotropy of gravity meaning gas atoms will receive the changes in momentum as they pass between regions with different gravitational constants - at the macro scale it would be like force fields we could step thru where gravity is different on each side.. the agitation we feel stepping between gravity fields is analogues to DCE or catalytic action. The theory that space inside a Casimir cavity modifies gravity was first proposed by Di Fiore et all in a 2002 paper Vacuum fluctuation force on a rigid Casimir cavity in a gravitational fieldhttp://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0109091. They proposed the possibility of verifying the equivalence principle for the zero-point energy of quantum electrodynamics, by evaluating the force, produced by vacuum fluctuations, acting on a rigid Casimir cavity in a weak gravitational field. Their calculations show a resulting force has opposite direction with respect to the gravitational acceleration. They stacked numerous cavities in an attempt to modify macro gravity but were unable to prove their claims.. My posit of a relativistic interpretation of Casimir force would agree that their experiment should have failed because suppression only segregates vacuum pressures and for every concentrated region in a cavity there will be an equal and opposite diluted region dispersed over the exterior area of the plates to balance out any bias from accumulating. The opportunity is there to expose physical matter such as gas atoms to these regions in a biased manner to accumulate effects but the cavities themselves will always balance out to zero. My posit is that these vacuum wavelengts are electromagnetic but traveling transverse to our 3D plane and thereby escape any Faraday caging, intersecting with all physical matter in our universe as if we were an ant farm or thin ribbon. When a 3d cavity is suppressed to near 2d these wavelengths can somewhat modify their angle of incidence to this ribbon in the same manner as an object with a velocity approaching C changes it's angle of incidence in a Pythagorean relationship to C. All the clues say these are relativistic effects but we are reluctant to embrace all that implies... Regards Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:38 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Fran, I combined your two responses. As I understand, an attraction is measured between two materials, which is sensitive to the kind of material and the distance between them. That is the only observation on which this complex theory is based. Chemical attraction is known to occur, but assumptions are made about how to subtract this force. People assume that corrections have been properly made for the chemical force. If no other explanation had been suggested, all of the force would have been attributed to chemical attraction. But, people want to assume that something exists in vacuum space that can be detected. So they assume some of this force is caused by this proposed energy field. Just how the field can cause a force is difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia. This seems to be an odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet, if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum when a small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. I see no connection between the behaviors. If the gap has a critical size, quantum interference is proposed to stop a flux of something, thereby creating an unbalanced force. But, the field does not interact with ordinary material, so how does the force become unbalanced such that it will interact with the atoms in the material? In addition, if a flux of something is stopped, where does its energy go? If something
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.0187v3 Casimir effect from macroscopic quantum electrodynamics Authors: T.G. Philbinhttp://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Philbin_T/0/1/0/all/0/1 (Submitted on 1 Mar 2011 (v1 http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.0187v1), last revised 9 Jun 2011 (this version, v3)) Abstract: The canonical quantization of macroscopic electromagnetism was recently presented in New J. Phys. 12 (2010) 123008. This theory is here used to derive the Casimir effect, by considering the special case of thermal and zero-point fields. The stress-energy-momentum tensor of the canonical theory follows from Noether's theorem, and its electromagnetic part in thermal equilibrium gives the Casimir energy density and stress tensor. The results hold for arbitrary inhomogeneous magnetodielectrics and are obtained from a rigorous quantization of electromagnetism in dispersive, dissipative media. Continuing doubts about the status of the standard Lifshitz theory as a proper quantum treatment of Casimir forces do not apply to the derivation given here. Moreover, the correct expressions for the Casimir energy density and stress tensor inside media follow automatically from the simple restriction to thermal equilibrium, without the need for complicated thermodynamical or mechanical arguments. On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Hi Ed, I got lost trying to address everything so am just going to focus on this paragraph [snip] Just how the field can cause a force is difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia. This seems to be an odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet, if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum when a small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. I see no connection between the behaviors.[/snip] I feel your pain because the creation of a real photon is one of the possibilities that suppression of vacuum wavelengths can lead to as demonstrated by recent experiments with SQUIDS cited by Jones.. It can also lead to anomalous radioactive decay of gases exposed to the confinement. According to “Cavity QED”http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdfby Zofia Bialynicka-Birula it also breaks the isotropy of gravity meaning gas atoms will receive the changes in momentum as they pass between regions with different gravitational constants - at the macro scale it would be like force fields we could step thru where gravity is different on each side.. the agitation we feel stepping between gravity fields is analogues to DCE or catalytic action. The theory that space inside a Casimir cavity modifies gravity was first proposed by Di Fiore et all in a 2002 paper “Vacuum fluctuation force on a rigid Casimir cavity in a gravitational fieldhttp://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0109091“. They proposed the possibility of verifying the equivalence principle for the zero-point energy of quantum electrodynamics, by evaluating the force, produced by vacuum fluctuations, acting on a rigid Casimir cavity in a weak gravitational field. Their calculations show a resulting force has opposite direction with respect to the gravitational acceleration. They stacked numerous cavities in an attempt to modify macro gravity but were unable to prove their claims.. My posit of a relativistic interpretation of Casimir force would agree that their experiment should have failed because “suppression” only “segregates” vacuum pressures and for every concentrated region in a cavity there will be an equal and opposite diluted region dispersed over the exterior area of the plates to balance out any bias from accumulating. The opportunity is there to expose physical matter such as gas atoms to these regions in a biased manner to accumulate effects but the cavities themselves will always balance out to zero. My posit is that these vacuum wavelengts are electromagnetic but traveling transverse to our 3D plane and thereby escape any Faraday caging, intersecting with all physical matter in our universe as if we were an ant farm or thin ribbon. When a 3d cavity is suppressed to near 2d these wavelengths can somewhat modify their angle of incidence to this “ribbon” in the same manner as an object with a velocity approaching C changes it’s angle of incidence in a Pythagorean relationship to C. All the clues say these are relativistic effects but we are reluctant to embrace all that implies… Regards Fran ** ** ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* Monday, May 20, 2013 10:38 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) ** ** Fran, I combined your two responses. ** ** As I understand, an attraction is measured between
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Axil, nice citation, the math is beyond my pay grade but I believe the gist of the paper is that macro Casimir materials and geometries can now be calculated much more easily, and this agrees with what authors of Advances in Casimir Effect were predicting in 2009 as methods for calculating different geometries were still being investigated and simplified... I think it was Bordag who commented on it but there were 4 authors and I don't recall for certain. Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:39 PM To: vortex-l Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) http://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.0187v3 Casimir effect from macroscopic quantum electrodynamics Authors: T.G. Philbinhttp://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Philbin_T/0/1/0/all/0/1 (Submitted on 1 Mar 2011 (v1http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.0187v1), last revised 9 Jun 2011 (this version, v3)) Abstract: The canonical quantization of macroscopic electromagnetism was recently presented in New J. Phys. 12 (2010) 123008. This theory is here used to derive the Casimir effect, by considering the special case of thermal and zero-point fields. The stress-energy-momentum tensor of the canonical theory follows from Noether's theorem, and its electromagnetic part in thermal equilibrium gives the Casimir energy density and stress tensor. The results hold for arbitrary inhomogeneous magnetodielectrics and are obtained from a rigorous quantization of electromagnetism in dispersive, dissipative media. Continuing doubts about the status of the standard Lifshitz theory as a proper quantum treatment of Casimir forces do not apply to the derivation given here. Moreover, the correct expressions for the Casimir energy density and stress tensor inside media follow automatically from the simple restriction to thermal equilibrium, without the need for complicated thermodynamical or mechanical arguments. On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.commailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Hi Ed, I got lost trying to address everything so am just going to focus on this paragraph [snip] Just how the field can cause a force is difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia. This seems to be an odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet, if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum when a small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. I see no connection between the behaviors.[/snip] I feel your pain because the creation of a real photon is one of the possibilities that suppression of vacuum wavelengths can lead to as demonstrated by recent experiments with SQUIDS cited by Jones.. It can also lead to anomalous radioactive decay of gases exposed to the confinement. According to Cavity QEDhttp://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf by Zofia Bialynicka-Birula it also breaks the isotropy of gravity meaning gas atoms will receive the changes in momentum as they pass between regions with different gravitational constants - at the macro scale it would be like force fields we could step thru where gravity is different on each side.. the agitation we feel stepping between gravity fields is analogues to DCE or catalytic action. The theory that space inside a Casimir cavity modifies gravity was first proposed by Di Fiore et all in a 2002 paper Vacuum fluctuation force on a rigid Casimir cavity in a gravitational fieldhttp://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0109091. They proposed the possibility of verifying the equivalence principle for the zero-point energy of quantum electrodynamics, by evaluating the force, produced by vacuum fluctuations, acting on a rigid Casimir cavity in a weak gravitational field. Their calculations show a resulting force has opposite direction with respect to the gravitational acceleration. They stacked numerous cavities in an attempt to modify macro gravity but were unable to prove their claims.. My posit of a relativistic interpretation of Casimir force would agree that their experiment should have failed because suppression only segregates vacuum pressures and for every concentrated region in a cavity there will be an equal and opposite diluted region dispersed over the exterior area of the plates to balance out any bias from accumulating. The opportunity is there to expose physical matter such as gas atoms to these regions in a biased manner to accumulate effects but the cavities themselves will always balance out to zero. My posit is that these vacuum wavelengts are electromagnetic but traveling transverse to our 3D plane and thereby escape any Faraday caging, intersecting with all physical matter in our universe as if we were an ant farm or thin ribbon. When a 3d cavity is suppressed to near 2d these wavelengths can somewhat
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
On Fri May 17 Ed Storms said [snip] Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force.[/snip] Hi Ed, There is no heat generated by an empty cavity, it is only when gas atoms passing through this cavity environment react with the quantum effect of the walls and each other that anomalous energy is released. When Jones cited the importance of DCE it also underlined the importance for changes in casimir force to result in any net energy capture... Many people, myself included, are convinced that this translation between different geometries must be accomplished in an asymmetrical manner to rectify any energy..if atoms come in, translate to different geometries and then exit the NAE without any interactions / reactions there will be no energy release. In the MACRO world it would be silly to construct a device that performs half a cycle at no gravity and then lands on a planet to perform the other half cycle because you are doing the work with your ships propulsion system. OTOH in the NANO world we are suggesting a way to exploit HUP/gas motion to perform equivalent propulsion while exploiting gravity warps created by quantum effects /geometry. We don't have to wait for the slow square law of a gravity well to accomplish chain because this geometry trumps the square law and creates breaches in the isotropy that equate to sudden jumps in a particles position within the gravity well..or actually the gravity hill in this case as we outside the cavity represent the bottom of a well even if we were free floating in space. Supression allows us to warp space time negative relative to zero gravity. My point being we can create or self assemble a bulk powder device with conditions like my silly analogy of half cycles using a spaceship without supplying any propulsion energy..the reacting gas atoms only have to move between different breaks in the isotropy and that motion is supplied for free by HUP. Fran -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 2:56 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter? Ed Storms On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Fran, I combined your two responses. As I understand, an attraction is measured between two materials, which is sensitive to the kind of material and the distance between them. That is the only observation on which this complex theory is based. Chemical attraction is known to occur, but assumptions are made about how to subtract this force. People assume that corrections have been properly made for the chemical force. If no other explanation had been suggested, all of the force would have been attributed to chemical attraction. But, people want to assume that something exists in vacuum space that can be detected. So they assume some of this force is caused by this proposed energy field. Just how the field can cause a force is difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia. This seems to be an odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet, if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum when a small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. I see no connection between the behaviors. If the gap has a critical size, quantum interference is proposed to stop a flux of something, thereby creating an unbalanced force. But, the field does not interact with ordinary material, so how does the force become unbalanced such that it will interact with the atoms in the material? In addition, if a flux of something is stopped, where does its energy go? If something is moving such that it can cause something else to move (create a force), then energy is involved in the process. This is a basic condition. When that motion is stopped, the energy must be converted to a different form. Something else must move, thereby creating heat, which is caused by random motion of atoms. Hand-waving using the idea of quantum effects that are invisible and impossible for people to imagine seems like a copout to me. Whatever happens at the quantum level and whatever its cause, the result later enters our non-quantum reality and has to be consistent with the laws we know operate in the normal reality. Conservation of energy is one of these basic laws. If energy exists in the vacuum and if this energy can be experienced in our reality, than the process must be consistent with the Law of Conservation of Energy. The energy lost by the source, i.e. vacuum, must be equal to the energy acquired by the material being studied. So, a description of the Casimir effect must show exactly how this energy transfer occurs. Instead, the description seems to ramble, use obscure concepts, and gives no insight. This is worse than the descriptions of cold fusion. :-) Fran, no gas atoms are present, as you incorrectly describe below. The Casimir effect is caused in vacuum. Consequently, I have no idea what you are talking about and what rectifying energy means. You are wandering off into totally confusing ideas and descriptions. You introduce behavior into the discussion that has no relationship to observation and is real only in your imagination, yet you state it as fact. Consequently, I have no idea how to respond. Ed On May 19, 2013, at 7:51 PM, francis wrote: Ed, I have been without pc all weekend but see that Mark and Jones made a far better response than I could have managed, someone made reference to the Haisch Rhueda paper on inertia which bears heavily on your questions about if this is normal photon radiation … if they are correct than it is not photon radiation. We are talking about the same waveforms that are responsible for gravity and inertia and this is why there is no Farady shielding, everything is permeated at 90 degrees to the physical plane, these waveforms approach and depart from a nonphysical dimension like time winking into and out of existence only as they cross through the Present. I suspect that HUP or jitter is just these virtual particles growing into then contracting out of our 3d ant farm plane and the random displacement of all physical matter from within the tiniest subatomic particles on up in response to these inter dimensional interlopers. According to Puthoff these virtual particles create a pressure that is responsible for the ground state of everything from quarks up to and beyond the periodic table, they form a sea or river, a medium that he believes can be engineered using Casimir geometry with other techniques to concentrate and extend this natural phenomenon we see commonly all around us in the form of colloids like mayonnaise or the stiction we see making it difficult to sort nanotubes. My posit is that we are causing breaks in micro gravity.. cavity QED says the isotropy can be broken at this geometry where the inverse of Casimir boundary spacing cubed can trump the
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time... but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen! -m I would be worried that the energy density of any system that is worked out would be low, since we're talking about the ground state. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
As Dr. Storms has already tried NiAl, I'm giving the following a try: Constantan wire with aluminum wire twisted around it in electrolysis with KOH. It appears to be producing hydrogen very vigorously at the cathode. I've also considered wrapping nickel in aluminum foil. Seems like it can't hurt to have more hydrogen available for loading, but I don't know that this will be advantageous compared with a gas-loaded cell. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time... but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen! -m -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Mark, A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for free energy. Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht ml Is it only a matter of time... ? -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Let's put some numbers to it... From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation: F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4) (force per unit area, Casimir original derivation in 1948) F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um. Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom. -mark -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Ed, I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here and helping to focus some of the discussions. I have been too busy to participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too busy so as to avoid others! ;-) Most of the regular-posting Vorts are open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism. We also are not concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics. I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very specific questions about the NAE; please look for it. Now on to your question... RE: I assume its normal EM radiation? Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered normal EM radiation. I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL). The LANL Directory shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area, and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail? Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a more accurate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum Computing http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf ... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause drag in a superfluid moving at any speed. -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Thanks for the reference, but I meant the sort of drag one experiences when moving through a fluid at a constant velocity. I found this link which gives a qualitative account of their theory of mass http://www.calphysics.org/haisch/sciences.html and they say because the Zero Point Field (ZPF) is Lorentz invariant it does not create a drag at constant velocity. Instead they say acceleration of charged matter through the ZPF creates a kind of counterforce which we interpret as inertia. All the efforts to explain the origin of inertia as an effect of some other force or energy field look for theoretical justification to question the validity of the law of inertia. However, if we let experience be our guide we don't need theoretical justification to question the law. For example, the law is not respected by the motion of a thrown pebble. The pebble demonstrates a capacity for acceleration. Of course, the modern convention is to imagine the Earth exerting a force because it is assumed a priori that the apple is continuously obeying the law even while it is in free fall. ( General relativity retains the doctrine of the continuity of natural law but bends the law in order to account for the acceleration). Instead the Earth can be viewed as providing a stimulus for the apple's acceleration and the law of inertia comes into effect again when the apple hits the ground. Harry On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:20 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Yes, it’s called inertia… Bernie Haisch and Alfonso Rueda derived it (F=ma), and published it in Physical Revue A in 1994. -mark ** ** *From:* Harry Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2013 11:44 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) ** ** Assuming the casimir force is the best explanation of the observed force on the plates, wouldn't the vacuum energy produce a drag on all moving bodies? Harry ** ** On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together. This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation. 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established, and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your old stomping ground of Los Alamos. It has also become a practical issue now that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following is from the Wikipedia article: - One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the experimental details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with Marcus Sparnaay. The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K. Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice, rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a large radius. In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using microresonators.[27] --- -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Jack, you would have more success and not waste your time if you applied some basic chemistry. More hydrogen does not result in more loading. Only the pressure and temperature determine the amount of loading. In addition, Constantan does not dissolve much H in any case. Addition of aluminum will do nothing to the Constantan. Cold fusion may be hard to understand but it does not mean the laws of chemistry have creased to function. Ed Storms On May 18, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Jack Cole wrote: As Dr. Storms has already tried NiAl, I'm giving the following a try: Constantan wire with aluminum wire twisted around it in electrolysis with KOH. It appears to be producing hydrogen very vigorously at the cathode. I've also considered wrapping nickel in aluminum foil. Seems like it can't hurt to have more hydrogen available for loading, but I don't know that this will be advantageous compared with a gas-loaded cell. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time... but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen! -m -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Mark, A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for free energy. Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht ml Is it only a matter of time... ? -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Let's put some numbers to it... From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation: F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4) (force per unit area, Casimir original derivation in 1948) F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um. Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom. -mark -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Ed, I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here and helping to focus some of the discussions. I have been too busy to participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too busy so as to avoid others! ;-) Most of the regular-posting Vorts are open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism. We also are not concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics. I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very specific questions about the NAE; please look for it. Now on to your question... RE: I assume its normal EM radiation? Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered normal EM radiation. I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL). The LANL Directory shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area, and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail? Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a more accurate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum Computing http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf ... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause drag in a superfluid moving at any speed. -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Very good. Thanks Ed for the insight. On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Jack, you would have more success and not waste your time if you applied some basic chemistry. More hydrogen does not result in more loading. Only the pressure and temperature determine the amount of loading. In addition, Constantan does not dissolve much H in any case. Addition of aluminum will do nothing to the Constantan. Cold fusion may be hard to understand but it does not mean the laws of chemistry have creased to function. Ed Storms On May 18, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Jack Cole wrote: As Dr. Storms has already tried NiAl, I'm giving the following a try: Constantan wire with aluminum wire twisted around it in electrolysis with KOH. It appears to be producing hydrogen very vigorously at the cathode. I've also considered wrapping nickel in aluminum foil. Seems like it can't hurt to have more hydrogen available for loading, but I don't know that this will be advantageous compared with a gas-loaded cell. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time... but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen! -m -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Mark, A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for free energy. Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht ml Is it only a matter of time... ? -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Let's put some numbers to it... From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation: F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4) (force per unit area, Casimir original derivation in 1948) F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um. Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom. -mark -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Ed, I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here and helping to focus some of the discussions. I have been too busy to participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too busy so as to avoid others! ;-) Most of the regular-posting Vorts are open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism. We also are not concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics. I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very specific questions about the NAE; please look for it. Now on to your question... RE: I assume its normal EM radiation? Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered normal EM radiation. I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL). The LANL Directory shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area, and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail? Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a more accurate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum Computing http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf ... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause drag in a superfluid moving at any speed. -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Ed, I have been without pc all weekend but see that Mark and Jones made a far better response than I could have managed, someone made reference to the Haisch Rhueda paper on inertia which bears heavily on your questions about if this is normal photon radiation . if they are correct than it is not photon radiation. We are talking about the same waveforms that are responsible for gravity and inertia and this is why there is no Farady shielding, everything is permeated at 90 degrees to the physical plane, these waveforms approach and depart from a nonphysical dimension like time winking into and out of existence only as they cross through the Present. I suspect that HUP or jitter is just these virtual particles growing into then contracting out of our 3d ant farm plane and the random displacement of all physical matter from within the tiniest subatomic particles on up in response to these inter dimensional interlopers. According to Puthoff these virtual particles create a pressure that is responsible for the ground state of everything from quarks up to and beyond the periodic table, they form a sea or river, a medium that he believes can be engineered using Casimir geometry with other techniques to concentrate and extend this natural phenomenon we see commonly all around us in the form of colloids like mayonnaise or the stiction we see making it difficult to sort nanotubes. My posit is that we are causing breaks in micro gravity.. cavity QED says the isotropy can be broken at this geometry where the inverse of Casimir boundary spacing cubed can trump the normal square law we experience as denizens of a gravity well in the macro world. When Jones mentioned dynamic Casimir effect in regards to recent evidence using transistor like device called SQUIDS they are effectively moving one of the Casimir boundaries at luminal velocities. In these metal powders or skeletal cats the conjecture is that there are boundaries everywhere and of different sizes, a tapestry of different suppression values that the gas atoms are migrating through with the help of the normally unusable energy called gas motion.. Fran Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg80245.html heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter? Ed Storms
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Jones, I only read your top citation so far but it does indicate the emissions recorded may have been due to ZPE [snip] We analyzed the emission from different gases and cavities to determine its origin. None of the conventional thermodynamic models we applied to our data fully explain it, leaving open the possibility that it is due to Casimir-cavity-induced emission from ZP fields.[/snip] Even this is surprising if you consider the submicron pores mentioned are probably the 100 nm scale from their original patent and stacked layer prototype [alternating conductive/insulating layers with tunnels drilled thru the stack]... too large for any vigorous Casimir force..their original intent was to pursue a Lamb Pinch effect to collect far less energy but cycled rapidly via gas flow through numerous layers to accumulate the effect. I don't believe their sub micron pore size is anywhere near Rayney nickel or Rossi's tubules - granted the tubule size is also near micron scale but I believe the shape and protrusions of a tubule can create spacing voids between tubules much smaller than the tubule when they clump together to form a bulk powder. There also remains the open question with tubules that the secret sauce is backfilling the geometry between tubules making them a super catalyst. Best Regards Fran -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) http://ecee.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/Papers/DmitriyevaModdel12.pdf Garret Moddel at Colorado has a patent application and has been looking for Casimir/ZPE heating for several years in nanocavities. Success has been marginal at best. http://www.google.com/patents/WO2008039176A3?cl=endq=Garret+Moddelhl=ensa =Xei=3E6VUajuMoKxiwKzhoGQAwved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat. Terry Blanton wrote: I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. Whether they look or not, they often find heat considering that the material is flammable.
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Hi Ed, Vacuum energy can never be totally blocked by Casimir geometry or anything physical, even an ideal metal with optimum geometry won't totally block vacuum energy since it needs to permeate all matter in a Wave Structure of Matter kind of way -cant have matter [a persistent waveform / canoe stuck in the waterfall] without this medium passing through our plane. All matter even at the smallest subatomic scale has 8 sides, 6 spatial and 2 that we call temporal. Relativity teaches us that a spaceship can travel along this temporal axis without being aware of the difference to a stationary frame until comparing for time dilation upon return. We are in effect, a 3D ant farm where the glass separates us from past and future but vacuum radiation fills the entire 4D void. My neo Lorentzian posit is that whatever rate these virtual particles/vacuum wavelengths from the void transgress through our 3d ant farm plane we will always perceive locally as C. We will locally see the full spectrum of vacuum wavelengths whether we are stationary at a spaceship approaching C or a tiny hydrogen atom inside a vacuum suppressed cavity. I am convinced that whenever scientists talk about experiments where they suppress certain vacuum wavelengths/virtual particles in a lattice it is actually dialation/ Lorentzian contraction they are observing. HUP can be envisioned as virtual particles from this void growing into one side of our ant farm plane and then contracting out the other side at whatever rate this medium happens to be passing thru..and these virtual particles push matter randomly in every direction to make room for their passage -jitter. Puthoff refers to a vacuum pressure when these virtual particles encounter matter and this interaction being the clock works behind ZPE and the ground states upon which physics /periodic chart is based. I think radioactivity and pyrophoricity are examples where this interface is less stable but already normalized / rolled into our science while Casimir effect will allow for a new science that Puthoff refers to as vacuum engineering. My pet theory remains that this new science will allow for the presently considered unusable energy of HUP / gas motion to be exploited. From a temporal perspective our physical universe is a flat ribbon [ant farm] where even the subatomic matter of molten metals in the earths core are all equally exposed to the time axis, as the virtual particles pass thru they impart ground state energy to all physical matter and are responsible for all our physical laws at different scales. I like to consider the atomic scale as the difference in vacuum pressure on the nucleus and electron where the well between is created by this moving sea of virtual particles passing through our plane where more pressure is exerted on the nucleus and leaves the electrons' attraction to forever chase the nucleus thru time. Casimir effect is on a different scale and needs quantum effects but IMHO it employs the same sort of relativistic methods to suppress the vacuum. The formula makes it clear how the energy is proportional to surface area and the cube of the spacing between suppression boundaries.. a good analogy is the venturi effect where buildings act as sails opposing the flow / creating pressure on outside surfaces while the gap between buildings tries to alleviate the pressure and virtual particles rush to exit the time axis via the spatial cavity created by the geometry. Effectively accelerating time on average at various rates according to the most local suppression geometry.. this is why skeletal catalysts and casimir geometry are related, changes in casimir geometry are catalytic. A paper from Cornell confirms catalytic action at openings and defects of nanotubes. The changes in pressure according to cavity topology experienced by gas atoms is just strong catalytic action. I think normal catalytic action is a lesser combination of this rate of change in vacuum pressure while these claims of anomalous heat are examples of super catalytic action where the average suppression rate is much higher and dynamic changes in geometry more abrupt to the point where they can discount reversible reactions to OU. Surface area, figures of merit perhaps it is time to add geometry for cat selection? I didn't respond to your point of thin metal plates suppressing radiation because frankly I don't know how the effect is modified with thickness -whether 10 atom sheets to make casimir plates would measure the same value as single atom plates.. I would guess several layers would reinforce the quantum effect of the surface layers forming the cavity. Fran -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Fran and Andy, I have always wanted to ask someone who
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Is aluminium metal good for absorb hydrogen? I also wonder which metals how is bad to absorb hydrogen? Its not but to find good materials for hydrogen loading but also to avoid de-loading. For example a connecting cord to an anode can de-lode hydrogen from Ni or Pd in an electrolytic experiment. It may take H/D from the anode out to the air. Even Cu may absorb some hydrogen. A simple thing as make a bad connecting for an anode may ruin a potential good experiment. What is good to use as connecting metal and for solder? On Thu, 16 May 2013 12:11:41 -0600, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The material is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction of Al. It is very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and unreactive to H2. It is dangerous to use without care. Ed Storms On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
. Effectively accelerating time on average at various rates according to the most local suppression geometry.. this is why skeletal catalysts and casimir geometry are related, changes in casimir geometry are catalytic. A paper from Cornell confirms catalytic action at openings and defects of nanotubes. The changes in pressure according to cavity topology experienced by gas atoms is just strong catalytic action. I think normal catalytic action is a lesser combination of this rate of change in vacuum pressure while these claims of anomalous heat are examples of super catalytic action where the average suppression rate is much higher and dynamic changes in geometry more abrupt to the point where they can discount reversible reactions to OU. Surface area, figures of merit perhaps it is time to add geometry for cat selection? I didn't respond to your point of thin metal plates suppressing radiation because frankly I don't know how the effect is modified with thickness -whether 10 atom sheets to make casimir plates would measure the same value as single atom plates.. I would guess several layers would reinforce the quantum effect of the surface layers forming the cavity. Fran -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Fran and Andy, I have always wanted to ask someone who believes in the Casimir effect why they think the vacuum energy would be blocked by a thin wall of material. The vacuum energy is proposed to have a very large frequency, which normally would be expected to pass right through matter. Therefore, why would a cavity created by a few atoms within a crystal structure have any effect on such radiation? If the material is opaque to the radiation, the vacuum radiation would not even reach the cavities within the interior of the material and have no effect on what might happen there. If the material is not opaque, then the cavity does not exist as far as the radiation is concerned. People keep trying to apply this model to cold fusion. Cold fusion is difficult enough to understand without applying an effect that itself makes no sense. Ed Storms On May 16, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: Hi Fran, Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects. Andy. On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and relativistic energies leads me to believe the suppression is actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of Casimir geometry. Fran -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
where the well between is created by this moving sea of virtual particles passing through our plane where more pressure is exerted on the nucleus and leaves the electrons' attraction to forever chase the nucleus thru time. Casimir effect is on a different scale and needs quantum effects but IMHO it employs the same sort of relativistic methods to suppress the vacuum. The formula makes it clear how the energy is proportional to surface area and the cube of the spacing between suppression boundaries.. a good analogy is the venturi effect where buildings act as sails opposing the flow / creating pressure on outside surfaces while the gap between buildings tries to alleviate the pressure and virtual particles rush to exit the time axis via the spatial cavity created by the geometry. Effectively accelerating time on average at various rates according to the most local suppression geometry.. this is why skeletal catalysts and casimir geometry are related, changes in casimir geometry are catalytic. A paper from Cornell confirms catalytic action at openings and defects of nanotubes. The changes in pressure according to cavity topology experienced by gas atoms is just strong catalytic action. I think normal catalytic action is a lesser combination of this rate of change in vacuum pressure while these claims of anomalous heat are examples of super catalytic action where the average suppression rate is much higher and dynamic changes in geometry more abrupt to the point where they can discount reversible reactions to OU. Surface area, figures of merit perhaps it is time to add geometry for cat selection? I didn't respond to your point of thin metal plates suppressing radiation because frankly I don't know how the effect is modified with thickness -whether 10 atom sheets to make casimir plates would measure the same value as single atom plates.. I would guess several layers would reinforce the quantum effect of the surface layers forming the cavity. Fran -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Fran and Andy, I have always wanted to ask someone who believes in the Casimir effect why they think the vacuum energy would be blocked by a thin wall of material. The vacuum energy is proposed to have a very large frequency, which normally would be expected to pass right through matter. Therefore, why would a cavity created by a few atoms within a crystal structure have any effect on such radiation? If the material is opaque to the radiation, the vacuum radiation would not even reach the cavities within the interior of the material and have no effect on what might happen there. If the material is not opaque, then the cavity does not exist as far as the radiation is concerned. People keep trying to apply this model to cold fusion. Cold fusion is difficult enough to understand without applying an effect that itself makes no sense. Ed Storms On May 16, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: Hi Fran, Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects. Andy. On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and relativistic energies leads me to believe the suppression is actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of Casimir geometry. Fran -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together. This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation. 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established, and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your old stomping ground of Los Alamos. It has also become a practical issue now that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following is from the Wikipedia article: - One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the experimental details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with Marcus Sparnaay. The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K. Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice, rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a large radius. In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using microresonators.[27] --- -Mark -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:42 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks for the description Fran. Let's focus on one subject at a time, in this case the Casimir effect. While you use and value theory, I see no value in a theory unless it fits an observation. So, let's look at the Casimir effect in this context. The evidence for the theoretical idea called the Casimir effect is based on a force being measured between two slabs of material that form a narrow gap between them. The assumption is that the material blocks the vacuum energy from entering the gap. As a result, more force is pushing inward than outward. Such a force results from all atoms in the material being affected, not just those atoms you might identify as part of a quantum process. This model assumes the material blocks the vacuum radiation. However, such blocking has no justification. If no blocking or only partial blocking occurred, the measurements would have no relationship to the proposed theory. Yet, people carry on as if this measurement supports the theory. This looks like an idea that is accepted only because it was expected based on an assumption - the assumption being that energy exists in vacuum that is blocked by matter. As with all ideas, anything can be explained with a few assumptions and the mathematical tools that are available, whether the effect is real or not. That is why the initial assumptions have to be correct. Let's go one step further. Let's assume energy does exist in the vacuum, which I agree is likely to be the case. This energy will obviously have many effects. The question is: What are the effects? If the energy is blocked by matter, then it can not get into materials and affect any process that takes place inside of any container or inside of any material, such as radioactivity as you proposed. If matter is transparent, the radiation can affect behavior inside of containers but not produce the Casimir effect. If matter is opaque, the Casimir effect would work, but nothing inside of a container or solid material could be affected by the radiation. In other words, the idea seems to have a logical conflict. How is this conflict resolved? Ed Storms On May 17, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Hi Ed, Vacuum energy can never be totally blocked by Casimir geometry or anything physical, even an ideal metal with optimum geometry won't totally block vacuum energy since it needs to permeate all matter in a Wave Structure of Matter kind of way -cant have matter [a persistent waveform / canoe stuck
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Hi Mark, Possible typo alert: I think you meant to say 'wavelengths', not 'frequencies'. Andy. On 17/05/13 18:22, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Yes, **wavelengths** larger (=lower frequencies) than the plate spacing will be excluded... Thx for the correction Andy! -m -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:25 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Mark, Possible typo alert: I think you meant to say 'wavelengths', not 'frequencies'. Andy. On 17/05/13 18:22, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Assuming the casimir force is the best explanation of the observed force on the plates, wouldn't the vacuum energy produce a drag on all moving bodies? Harry On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together. This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation. 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established, and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your old stomping ground of Los Alamos. It has also become a practical issue now that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following is from the Wikipedia article: - One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the experimental details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with Marcus Sparnaay. The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K. Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice, rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a large radius. In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using microresonators.[27] --- -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter? Ed Storms On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together. This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation. 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established, and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your old stomping ground of Los Alamos. It has also become a practical issue now that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following is from the Wikipedia article: - One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the experimental details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with Marcus Sparnaay. The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K. Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice, rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a large radius. In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using microresonators.[27] --- -Mark -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:42 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks for the description Fran. Let's focus on one subject at a time, in this case the Casimir effect. While you use and value theory, I see no value in a theory unless it fits an observation. So, let's look at the Casimir effect in this context. The evidence for the theoretical idea called the Casimir effect is based on a force being measured between two slabs of material that form a narrow gap between them. The assumption is that the material blocks the vacuum energy from entering the gap. As a result, more force is pushing inward than outward. Such a force results from all atoms in the material being
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Yes, it's called inertia. Bernie Haisch and Alfonso Rueda derived it (F=ma), and published it in Physical Revue A in 1994. -mark From: Harry Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:44 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Assuming the casimir force is the best explanation of the observed force on the plates, wouldn't the vacuum energy produce a drag on all moving bodies? Harry On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together. This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation. 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established, and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your old stomping ground of Los Alamos. It has also become a practical issue now that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following is from the Wikipedia article: - One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the experimental details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with Marcus Sparnaay. The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K. Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice, rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a large radius. In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using microresonators.[27] --- -Mark
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Hi Ed, I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here and helping to focus some of the discussions. I have been too busy to participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too busy so as to avoid others! ;-) Most of the regular-posting Vorts are open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism. We also are not concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics. I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very specific questions about the NAE; please look for it. Now on to your question... RE: I assume its normal EM radiation? Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered normal EM radiation. I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL). The LANL Directory shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area, and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail? Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a more accurate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum Computing http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf ... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause drag in a superfluid moving at any speed. -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter? Ed Storms On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together. This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation. 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established, and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your old stomping ground of Los Alamos. It has also become a practical issue now that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following is from the Wikipedia article: - One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Let's put some numbers to it... From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation: F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4) (force per unit area, Casimir original derivation in 1948) F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um. Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom. -mark -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Ed, I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here and helping to focus some of the discussions. I have been too busy to participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too busy so as to avoid others! ;-) Most of the regular-posting Vorts are open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism. We also are not concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics. I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very specific questions about the NAE; please look for it. Now on to your question... RE: I assume its normal EM radiation? Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered normal EM radiation. I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL). The LANL Directory shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area, and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail? Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a more accurate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum Computing http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf ... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause drag in a superfluid moving at any speed. -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter? Ed Storms On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates. This is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates together. All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together. This effect only
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Mark, A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for free energy. Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht ml Is it only a matter of time... ? -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Let's put some numbers to it... From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation: F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4) (force per unit area, Casimir original derivation in 1948) F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um. Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom. -mark -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Ed, I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here and helping to focus some of the discussions. I have been too busy to participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too busy so as to avoid others! ;-) Most of the regular-posting Vorts are open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism. We also are not concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics. I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very specific questions about the NAE; please look for it. Now on to your question... RE: I assume its normal EM radiation? Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered normal EM radiation. I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL). The LANL Directory shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area, and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail? Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a more accurate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum Computing http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf ... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause drag in a superfluid moving at any speed. -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter? Ed Storms On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the Plank frequency). Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time... but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen! -m -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Mark, A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for free energy. Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht ml Is it only a matter of time... ? -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint Let's put some numbers to it... From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation: F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4) (force per unit area, Casimir original derivation in 1948) F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um. Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom. -mark -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Ed, I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here and helping to focus some of the discussions. I have been too busy to participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too busy so as to avoid others! ;-) Most of the regular-posting Vorts are open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism. We also are not concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics. I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very specific questions about the NAE; please look for it. Now on to your question... RE: I assume its normal EM radiation? Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered normal EM radiation. I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL). The LANL Directory shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area, and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail? Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a more accurate explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum Computing http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials (Presentation format so has excellent graphics) http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf ... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause drag in a superfluid moving at any speed. -Mark Iverson -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed. I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material. Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The other photons pass right through the material without interacting or producing a force. What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter? Ed Storms On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Ed: Two things... 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir effect... (sorry Fran). Theory
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The material is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction of Al. It is very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and unreactive to H2. It is dangerous to use without care. Ed Storms On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Andy Findlay andy_find...@orange.net wrote: I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. Whether they look or not, they often find heat considering that the material is flammable.
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
HI Ed, Yes, I should have mentioned the dangers involved but for some reason or another I was assuming people would read up on it before trying anything. I am curious to know, though, whether you were looking at heat during the production of Raney Nickel, or how it behaves in a Rossi type setup? Andy. On 16/05/13 19:11, Edmund Storms wrote: I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The material is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction of Al. It is very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and unreactive to H2. It is dangerous to use without care. Ed Storms On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and relativistic energies leads me to believe the suppression is actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of Casimir geometry. Fran -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Hi Fran, Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects. Andy. On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and relativistic energies leads me to believe the suppression is actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of Casimir geometry. Fran -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat. On 16/05/13 19:12, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Andy Findlay andy_find...@orange.net wrote: I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. Whether they look or not, they often find heat considering that the material is flammable.
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Hi Andy, I heat it with H2 and looked for heat and radiation. I saw nothing unusual. I did not explore this in depth because I did not expect it to be active. Nevertheless, it might be active under other conditions I did not explore. I was more interested in other materials that were active. Ed On May 16, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: HI Ed, Yes, I should have mentioned the dangers involved but for some reason or another I was assuming people would read up on it before trying anything. I am curious to know, though, whether you were looking at heat during the production of Raney Nickel, or how it behaves in a Rossi type setup? Andy. On 16/05/13 19:11, Edmund Storms wrote: I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The material is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction of Al. It is very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and unreactive to H2. It is dangerous to use without care. Ed Storms On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Thanks, Ed. The implied question in my response to the original post was really directed more towards the actual process of producing Raney Nickel than what you can do with it thereafter. The chemical reaction is apparently strongly exothermic (in and of itself) and progresses faster at higher temperatures, so any anomalous heat could easily be overlooked - or dismissed as being the heat of combustion due to contact with O2. Might be worth a look though, I think. Andy. On 16/05/13 21:22, Edmund Storms wrote: Hi Andy, I heat it with H2 and looked for heat and radiation. I saw nothing unusual. I did not explore this in depth because I did not expect it to be active. Nevertheless, it might be active under other conditions I did not explore. I was more interested in other materials that were active. Ed
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
Fran and Andy, I have always wanted to ask someone who believes in the Casimir effect why they think the vacuum energy would be blocked by a thin wall of material. The vacuum energy is proposed to have a very large frequency, which normally would be expected to pass right through matter. Therefore, why would a cavity created by a few atoms within a crystal structure have any effect on such radiation? If the material is opaque to the radiation, the vacuum radiation would not even reach the cavities within the interior of the material and have no effect on what might happen there. If the material is not opaque, then the cavity does not exist as far as the radiation is concerned. People keep trying to apply this model to cold fusion. Cold fusion is difficult enough to understand without applying an effect that itself makes no sense. Ed Storms On May 16, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Andy Findlay wrote: Hi Fran, Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects. Andy. On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and relativistic energies leads me to believe the suppression is actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of Casimir geometry. Fran -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl) Hi Jack, I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen. I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I suspect not. Andy. On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote: Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting. Any thoughts? Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH without electrolysis. I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load into the lattice. Best regards, Jack
RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
http://ecee.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/Papers/DmitriyevaModdel12.pdf Garret Moddel at Colorado has a patent application and has been looking for Casimir/ZPE heating for several years in nanocavities. Success has been marginal at best. http://www.google.com/patents/WO2008039176A3?cl=endq=Garret+Moddelhl=ensa =Xei=3E6VUajuMoKxiwKzhoGQAwved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ -Original Message- From: Andy Findlay Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat. Terry Blanton wrote: I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. Whether they look or not, they often find heat considering that the material is flammable.
Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Andy Findlay andy_find...@orange.net wrote: Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat. Yeah, it was intended as a bit of humor.
