Re: [WSG] Your email requires verification verify#a6vQxgsxnTQ2Ky73eCXlkHoHksHXd3PV
Can People PLEASE stop replying to this rubbish email.The list does NOT require you to reply.Can an Admin please take care of it?On 12/13/05, Fenguly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ๅ้:Due to the volume of Spam around the internet, and in the interests of keeping the internet as spam-free as possible, unfortunately, the message you sent requires that you verify that you are a real live human being and not a spam source. To complete this verification, simply reply to this message and leave the subject line intact.Full apologies to those legitimate messages that are being verified, but, you will only need to verify once! Thanks for your assistance in helping to clear the internet of spam! The headers of the message sent from your address are show below:From wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Mon Dec 12 12:04:07 2005Received: from [ 216.119.112.83] (helo=mail.webboy.net) by spirit.premierservers.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Elr5p-0001Il-0y for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:04:07 -0500From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgMIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; charset=Windows-1252; boundary=SM_c877dea0-6c92-451d-af83-7fb727368263Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:45:46 1100message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]**The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help** **The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Is sending abusive spam doing standards good or harm?
Steven, I agree with you. The message about web standards is important, but pages like the one linked to only serves to aggravate and insult. Companies or individuals responsible for managing sites that are poorly constructed do not need to be treated in this manner. A more friendly, educational approach without the condescending tone and insulting language would work a lot better. You catch more bees with honey and all that jazz. Ntalie On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 01:33:26 +, Steven Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP http://members.optusnet.com.au/~night.owl/morons.html As far as the standards movement goes I actually think that such offensive behaviour would have to be more detrimental to the cause than good, closing minds and eyes to reason with an abusive introduction. Honestly if someone sent you a link saying you're a moron would you think its more valid than any other spam? ... If we want to be seen as professionals then a certain level of professionalism should apply, I'm sure that being inclusive, educational and helpful would be more to the spirit of a universal web than throwing stones. ... -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Western Australian Government Website
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:32:15 +0800, Vicki Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP however even that will be limited by the CMS they are going to use. /SNIP Why do organisations (be they private or public) continue to blame a CMS for things like poor validity and accessibility? Choosing a CMS that comforms the the requirements of well-formed valid (X)HTML and CSS, as well as good usability and accessibility should surely be the first point before worring about the design? I currently work for a company (my last day unfortunately) that produces a CMS that outputs completely valid XHTML1.0 Strict and CSS and insists on educating their clients regarding the benefits of outputting standards-based code. Their clients include many local government agencies in Victoria as well as private industry. And this company isn't the only one producing an enterprise-level CMS at a very reasonable cost that does all this in Australia, I know that for a fact. So why do companies/governments continue to choose poor CMSs that output poorly formed markup? -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The Holy Grail ... CSS Liquid Three-Column Layout
I love the implementation of the HTML and CSS. But um, could you please turn off HTML in your email? THE AMAZINGLY LARGE TYPE IS SENDING ME BLIND. Thanks :) On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:33:58 -0600, Mani Sheriar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Checked (OK) Safari 1.2.4 OS X (Mac) Opera 6.0.3 (Mac) Netscape 7.1 OS X (Mac) Minor bugs IE 5.2 OS X (Mac): extra padding added to the width of the left and right columns Screenshot: http://www.motive.co.nz/temp/041217-hoygrail.gif (could be a known CSS bug related to IE implementation of box model-padding and border added to width) See: http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/boxmodelhack.html Thanks very much for the screenshot, Andy! I thought that I had already allowed for the box-model inconsistencies in my css code. I'm wondering if 1E/MAC 5.2 doesn't like the negative margins on the side columns? Any ideas anyone? Mani Sheriar Sheriar Designs | www.ManiSheriar.com 925|914.0741 -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Worked a treat in Friefox Win. Really lovely. On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:28:30 +1100, Hugh Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ, I see it beautifully in Safari, but in Firefox only a blue background and tiny Times Roman text. What the...? -Hugh Todd http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/ cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for publication titles
Cite isn't really appropriate is it? CITE: Contains a citation or a reference to other sources So you are not referencing a source, just mentioning a publication. On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:31:22 +1300 (NZDT), Mike Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SEMANTIC MARKUP FOR PUBLICATION TITLES In print the name of a publication is typically type-set in an oblique or italic font. A similar *visual* effect can be achieved either through the use of: - an italic font-tag iPublication/i (probably deprecated) - an emphasis tag emPublication/em - styling a span span class=pubPublication/span (with companion CSS) As far as I'm aware, none of these methods have anything to recommend them from a semantic perspective. Is there an alternative convention or standards-endorsed markup to communicate that the enclosed text refers to a publication? Elegance preferred (i.e. rather than adding title tags to any of the above options). use cite eg citePublication/cite By default it's rendered in italics usually, but you can of course style further. Mike SIGNIFY LTD :: the logic behind === ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards Macromedia Contribute
yes but your second link is re-adobe on apple and the first is only
for Macromedia products on the Mac also:
Opera and Macromedia will work together to develop and maintain an
application programming interface (API) for an embedded browser on the
Mac platform, enabling further technical collaboration between the two
companies in the future. Opera's core technology will be used as
default browsing technology in a number of Macromedia products on the
Mac platform and will give users the opportunity to test their Web
pages with the world's most standards-compliant browser.
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:19:09 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On the Mac, Contribute uses the same (system-level) rendering engine as
Safari, which means you should not get any nasty surprises with the
layout.
Are you sure? Some time ago there was a deal between Macromedia and Opera:
http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2002/07/20020702.dml
(oh, and Apple: http://www.macminute.com/2003/09/30/opera)
Test it:
body {content: It's Opera;}
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
**
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Website Designer/Developer
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Re: [WSG] using IE7 script
I Know - I think everyone missed my second post that states as much :) From: Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:54:13 +1100 Subject: Re: [WSG] using IE7 script Oh Hang on, I just read the MS forum on the issue. IE7 isn't actually IE7, its a JS. My Badtrade; To quote: Re: Firefox Users IE 7 is coming In: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general As far as I can tell, this isn't an official new browser. It's merely the name of a JavaScript API that reinterprets CSS and fixes it in Internet Explorer 5/6. Thus, you include it on a web-page as a script type=text/javascript src=ie7.js/script - nothing more, nothing less. It's a great idea though, and one that should be given support. After all, if you can fix it in JS, surely MS can fix it in source :) On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:08:32 +1100, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/12/04 10:50 AM, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't even be relying on my users having IE7, let alone JS being on or off. Hi Natalie, Andreas is not referring to MS's official IE7 here, but an extensive JavaScript solution (confusingly called IE7) that attempts to make IE6 behave in a more standards-compliant manner. See the link that Andreas supplied for more details. -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] using IE7 script
I wouldn't even be relying on my users having IE7, let alone JS being on or off. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:41:50 -0800, Andreas Boehmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, I was just wondering whether any of you have used the Dean Edwards Javascript for IE7 (http://dean.edwards.name/ie7) and what the general opinion on it is? To be honest I am bit hesitant to use it, as I don't want to rely on my users having javascript turned on, but I guess the worst that could happen is for the design in IE not to look 100% okay if JS is turned off. Does anybody have prior experiences with it? -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] formatting the a tag
a:link is for a href a is for a mailto or a id or similar. a:link only applies if there is an href within the a. On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:02:10 +0930, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Can anyone tell me why when using classes sometimes I can style the a by itself (e.g. .myclass a) and other times this doesn't work and I have to style a:link (i.e. .myclass a:link) Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks Helen *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer, Teaching Learning Development Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Western Australian Government Website
Hi Nick Your site (docep) is fine, it's the main site that is a killer. It is completely un-accessible to say the least. I understand it hasn't been touched since 2001 - and that would certainly explain it. Regarding that link - that was another of my peeves. The average person isn't going to think of looking under Labor Relations or Work and Conditions for that info (I myself missed that link.) I think Public Holidays isn't even mention in the title of the search result but about 15 words into the description :( I'm not intending to be negative - all I was is dissapointed that the site was so hard to use, almost every page was actually a different sub domain or domain, and looked totally different from the last :( On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:00:25 +0800, Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to do a search on public holidays (which I am compiling from all Government Websites) and being a proud WA girl, thought our site would be the best. Visit http://www.docep.wa.gov.au/lr/LabourRelations/Content/Wages%20and%20Conditions/Public%20Holidays/Public_Holidays.html for the information. Alas, I was wrong and it's killing me how poor it is in relation to standards, accessibility and usability. And no this site does not validate, the CMS only likes HTML 4.01 and the code used for the drop downs is valid XHTML 1.1 transitional but not 4.01 transitional. It is something we are hoping will be fixed in the next version of the CMS. Another problem is that the content is cut and pasted from MS Word. Many content contributors, none who know or understand HTML. However, that site is accessible and has decent usability. Traffic has doubled in the last six months since the redesign (no promotion or any other changes, just redesigned and the information architecture improved). Does anyone on this list work in any dept in WA that could perhaps enlighten the powers that be at how bad the site makes WA look compared to other government sites? Yes. See http://www.egov.dpc.wa.gov.au/index.cfm?fuseaction=projects.policy for the Guidelines for State Government Web Sites. There is a push for standards based sites from the office of e-government and it is slowly happening, but very slowly. Nick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] using IE7 script
Oh Hang on, I just read the MS forum on the issue. IE7 isn't actually IE7, its a JS. My Badtrade; To quote: Re: Firefox Users IE 7 is coming In: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general As far as I can tell, this isn't an official new browser. It's merely the name of a JavaScript API that reinterprets CSS and fixes it in Internet Explorer 5/6. Thus, you include it on a web-page as a script type=text/javascript src=ie7.js/script - nothing more, nothing less. It's a great idea though, and one that should be given support. After all, if you can fix it in JS, surely MS can fix it in source :) On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:50:59 +1100, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't even be relying on my users having IE7, let alone JS being on or off. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:41:50 -0800, Andreas Boehmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, I was just wondering whether any of you have used the Dean Edwards Javascript for IE7 (http://dean.edwards.name/ie7) and what the general opinion on it is? To be honest I am bit hesitant to use it, as I don't want to rely on my users having javascript turned on, but I guess the worst that could happen is for the design in IE not to look 100% okay if JS is turned off. Does anybody have prior experiences with it? -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
This is probably getting OT... The DW editor isn't much like homesite at all anymore. Many more advanced features. It is worth downloading the free demo and having a look using CODE VIEW. Lots of built in things I like - the Oreilly's pocket guides, the inbuilt validation controls and the ability to add file type extensions via the xml file. On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:41:52 +1300, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: isn't the DWMX editor essentially homesite anyway? I'm a mac user so I've never seen or used homesite. Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-16 2:39 PM, heretic wrote: Realistically... we probably could have stuck with HomeSite :) -- You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Western Australian Government Website
http://www.wa.gov.au/ Has anyone here been to this site recently? I went to do a search on public holidays (which I am compiling from all Government Websites) and being a proud WA girl, thought our site would be the best. Alas, I was wrong and it's killing me how poor it is in relation to standards, accessibility and usability. Finding the search was bad enough, the results it spewed out were worse. Then there is the tables for layout, the missing DOCTYPE, missing opening and closing tags, no semantic layout and inconsitency across sections. Does anyone on this list work in any dept in WA that could perhaps enlighten the powers that be at how bad the site makes WA look compared to other government sites? Natalie -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Length of ALT attribute
Not sure about recommended length, but there is the LONG DESC tag for longer descriptions of images. Personally, I feel alt text should be short and only contain bare essentials. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:51:08 +1100, Anura Samara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a recommend length for ALT attributes? Or different implementations of ALT attributes between browsers that affect the length? In response to some accessibility testing, I am working on modifying some ALT attributes on images used in our online annual report, and as you can imagine some of them are a bit long - the longest I have at the moment is 53 words/280 characters. And in case anyone is wondering, yes, we do have long text descriptions for each image - the text I have for the ALT attribute is essentially the modified first sentence from the long description. Thanks for any pointers, Anura ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Netscape 4 - let it die
90% of Netscape 4 users are usually Government employees forced to use an outdated browser due to the fear that beaurocrats (I cant spell) have about upgrading. Don't blame the end user for the lousy browser their employer sticks them with. Educate the employers instead. On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 02:19:01 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you let 8-year-old browser to stop you from making good pages? I bet that 90% of Netscape 4 users are bored webmasters ;) Whenever some good solution is mentioned hearing but Netscape 4 doesn't support this is unavoidable. I agree that webpages should be accessible to all - they should work without CSS and JavaScript. Personally I use @import for CSS and use object-detection to gracefully degrade pages. NN4 should be threated as a text browser. It is just too buggy to get anything better. These days web looks so bad in NN4 that one more page looking ugly in this dinosaur doesn't matter. Actually it is even better - it proves that finally user needs to upgrade. c'mon! 6 years isn't a short notice! -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is there a cure for this IE problem?
Seems you have added content since posting this? Can you post a link to the CSS also? Ta. On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:00:16 +, Steven Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At a site I'm working on (still) http://www.blog.lindenlangdon.com when I open pages in Opera or Firefox there is no problem. But when I open them in IE 6 the main content area of the page, having no content yet, is small. So you see a shortened page, the height of the left nav bar in fact. This is an extremely yuk behaviour but of course its our friend MS :) By the way have you seen the Kill Bill tee shirts out for xmas (rhetorical question)? They have a linux penguin with a sword and Kill Bill written underneath... Anyway if someone knows a work around for this it would do me no end of good. Its just like a flash of empty container before the page loads properly or something _ Searching for that dream home? Try http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au for all your property needs. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] is there a cure for this IE problem?
Can you remove the content that is there so we can see the problem? All your pages have content, so I cannot see the problem you are describing. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:11:31 +1100, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems you have added content since posting this? Can you post a link to the CSS also? Ta. On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:00:16 +, Steven Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At a site I'm working on (still) http://www.blog.lindenlangdon.com when I open pages in Opera or Firefox there is no problem. But when I open them in IE 6 the main content area of the page, having no content yet, is small. So you see a shortened page, the height of the left nav bar in fact. This is an extremely yuk behaviour but of course its our friend MS :) By the way have you seen the Kill Bill tee shirts out for xmas (rhetorical question)? They have a linux penguin with a sword and Kill Bill written underneath... Anyway if someone knows a work around for this it would do me no end of good. Its just like a flash of empty container before the page loads properly or something _ Searching for that dream home? Try http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au for all your property needs. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check: AITP; Illowa Chapter
Faux Columns: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fauxcolumns/ On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:52:16 -0600, Aaron Holbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering if anyone has had a chance to look over my problem: http://143.226.165.202/other/aitp Really looking forward to some help. Aaron Holbrook On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:58:48 -0600, Aaron Holbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, first time for me to ask for you all to check a site for me, but I'm sure it won't be the last. I believe it renders fine in most browsers, except one flaw (advice would be MOST welcome): I have no clue how to get the navbar to render fully - if there is more content than navigation links (or you simply resize it smaller so that it overflows). I'd ideally like the navbar section to be a solid color all the way to the footer. Any suggestions? a href=http://143.226.165.202/other/aitp;Illowa Chapter; AITP/a I've tried using the: min-height; but it won't render correctly in IE. So, I'm stumped. Thanks a million! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
Excellent discussion over at Simple Bits Simple Quiz: breadcrumbs - http://www.simplebits.com/bits/simplequiz/#entry634 Pretty much covers all the arguments. Natalie On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:56:50 +1100, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Mordechai Peller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 6 December 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs A sentence isn't a collection of related item because each word is dependent on the rest of the sentence to give it meaning. In a list, while the list itself may impart context, each item otherwise stands on it's own. Adding or removing items from a list doesn't change the meaning of the list, nor its members. Adding or removing words from a sentence changes the meaning of the sentence to such an extent that it may make the sentence meaningless. As with words of a sentence, to a slightly lesser extent, so could be said about sentences of a paragraph. Also, while the order of an ordered list imparts meaning to the list, little or no meaning is imparted to its item. Change the order of the words of a sentence, not only can the sentence take on new meaning, so can its words. Mordechai, according to your explanation a breadcrumb is not a list, as you cannot simply take any of the items out of a breadcrumb. Each item in a breadcrumb is closely related to the preceeding item. If you take one item out, the rest of the breadcrumb loses its meaning. For example: Home | News | Summary Here we are talking about a summary page in the news section. Easy to understand. Now let's take out the News breadcrumb: Home | Summary Suddenly your entire breadcrumb doesn't make sense anymore! I agree that a breadcrumb is not a sentence, but I do not think it is a normal two-dimensional list either, if you want to be absolutely correct. Here's a thought to chew on: what about making it a relational list? ul liHome ul liNews ul liSummary/li /ul /li /ul /li /ul Wohooo! Now we are going mad! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
This discussion has finally convinced me that breadcrumb trails should not be marked up as lists. Without the entire path, it doesn't matter where the actual href goes. For instance: I tell a user that the file they want is in the folder widgets. They go looking for their file in c:/widgets. Because I neglected to tell them that they need to look in c:/stuff/widgets they are left confused and wondering what happened. This is the same with breadcrumbs. Leaving out any part of the path renders the visual trail useless. This leads me to the decision that the breadcrumb trail should be displayed as a sentance, with each relevent word linked. On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:35:14 +0200, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick Faaberg wrote: If you leave any nodes out, you've lost your way. That's because your missing information; however, each individual link is unchanged. Again, a word isn't very useful outside the context of a sentence, however a link is just as useful. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.6 - Release Date: 12/5/2004 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using small in a p
I believe small is valid in HTML 4 but cannot find reference in XHTML at all. Which are you using? On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:37:22 -0800, The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a line of text placed in a p//p that I would like to shrink. Can I use small//small? if so, how? Angus MacKinnon MacKinnon Crest Saying Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat English - Fortune Assists The Daring Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. http://www.choroideremia.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] inline list issues on MAC IE
Hi Hope Thanks for that comment. The design is fixed height by client request. They were given the options of overflow:scroll, :auto or :none, with the implications of each and they chose none. Sometimes even the strongest of arguments cannot get a client to realise that not everyone views a site at 1024x with fonts set to small :( On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:44:47 +1100, Hope A. Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Natalie I can't help you with this problem because I'm just a newbie to web standards, but I thought I should point out that you have an additional problem. As the font size is increased in both Safari MacIE, the columns do not grow with the text and some of the text at the bottom, therefore, is unviewable. On 1/12/04 4:11 PM, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having issues with a site just launched where the menu dissapears on the Mac in IE. Could anyone suggest what I've done wrong here? Works great in Safari. http://www.manufacturingbestpractice.com.au The pertaining stylesheet is http://www.manufacturingbestpractice.com.au/gui/html/style_advanced_home.css The css is right near the bottom, and as you can see, I'm fond of commenting my stylesheets so should be easy to find. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] inline list issues on MAC IE
Thanks for the suggestions Bert, good ideas. I'll add a background to the link menu. Any ideas why the menu breaks on mac IE though? :) On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 19:44:47 +0800, Bert Doorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day The design is fixed height by client request. They were given the options of overflow:scroll, :auto or :none, with the implications of each and they chose none. Sometimes even the strongest of arguments cannot get a client to realise that not everyone views a site at 1024x with fonts set to small :( So they like Manufacturing Best Practice, but not web best practice? Perhaps you could overcome it by using em rather than px. Find an em size that's equivalent to px settings in your client's browser (e.g. 20em). Best of both world - they get what they expect and it will still be scaleable for the rest of the world's population. Incidentally, with images disabled, the nav bar disappears (I'm using Firefox 1.0 on Win2K). I can't read white text on a white background. Suggest you put a background-color on the links, if not on the whole header. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Web Developer Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Siter Review Please
I'm far from the best designer around, but I'll try and give you some constructive feedback. 1. From a design angle, the page is lovely to look at (see, we can be nice here!). 2. Using tables for layout is totalyl unnecessary and totally against what this list is about. 3. Use of spans when you could just style the actual table, tr, td or p tags etc. 4. Use of br when you used spans - use divs instead to create a break or use CSS to insert margin/padding 5. Alt text on images that are spacers - they don't need alt text at all. (Its bad enough that they are used as it is). 6. Tried to check out your hot logo design with images turned off, but the page tells me nothing about what I would be looking at. Who was the client? what was the project? were their limitations or awards involved? Because you are a graphic designer, and not a web designer I'm not going to go all our like Graham of Telstra and say Crap. That's harsh and really not constructive. I also feel your use of serif fonts is fine, as long as you keep it for headings and never use it for paragraph text. HTH Natalie On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 21:47:21 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just want to get some feedback about aesthetics and design on my site if possible please and also the funcionality. Yes it is designed in tables but still I would like some criticism please. J.LinasDesign Graphic Designer http://www.jlinasdesign.com/ -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check Please
For me, the top nav is not only ten px to the left, it is also ten px up. Leaves a brown gap between your sliced images of the wedding couple. Not sure if that is fixed in your latest changes. Cheers Natalie On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:25:02 +1100, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Ted and John :o) The disconnecting text is not something I can change as this design element was specified by the client. I've fixed the topNav -10px wierdness - only happened on the home page - quelle bizarre! :o) No hover effect on action items (yet) Top Nav landing pages do not exist (yet) - no content from client Preloader done - thought it was part of the menu javascript Thanks for the feedback! Richard ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] inline list issues on MAC IE
Hi Guys Having issues with a site just launched where the menu dissapears on the Mac in IE. Could anyone suggest what I've done wrong here? Works great in Safari. http://www.manufacturingbestpractice.com.au The pertaining stylesheet is http://www.manufacturingbestpractice.com.au/gui/html/style_advanced_home.css The css is right near the bottom, and as you can see, I'm fond of commenting my stylesheets so should be easy to find. Thanks a bunch. Natalie -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Careers in web standards
While Web Standards and Accessibility are often practiced together, they are not entirely the same speciallty. Having a good understanding of both is excellent, but I think Accessibillity will get picked up faster, due to the fines you mention. Of course, working within Web Standards greatly enhances accessibility options. Natalie On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 07:04:22 +0200, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan Nichols wrote: It seems like as more and more companies adopt a forward thinking view of web development, this skillset will be a hot commodity. My hunch is that the door leading to mass adoption of Web standards will be labeled Accessibility. There have already been at least three cases I'm aware of where the fines (or equivalent thereof) where into the tens of thousands of dollars: the Sidney Olympics and two cases in New York (I think it was Ramada and Priceline, but I don't quite remember). As disability laws get enforced more in regards to the Web, and as more laws go onto the books around the world, we, as Web Standards Practitioners will be well placed. Or at least I hope so. Now if the ambulance chasers would just get off there rear ends and drum up some business for us! :-D ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] help with z-index?
You also need to make sure you apply a postion: to the parent. eg: position:relative; z-index:0; On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:25:17 +, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Firstly, I want to thank everybody who has helped me so far, including all the wonderful feedback I had once I asked for a site review. Now, I'm having a bit of a brain fizzle and I can't figure out how to prevent the text from being seen inbetween the buttons when I scroll. Once the text reaches the bottom of the buttons, I want it to disappear...but for the life of me, I can't figure out. Perhaps I've been working too hard. *sigh* Can somebody point the way, please? Thanks. http://www.drzeus.net/redesign/cslewis/ -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] help with z-index?
sorry, I didnt visit your page before writing. To hide the text, you will need to give the container that holds your tabs a background colour - right now if is transparent. On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:04:14 +1100, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You also need to make sure you apply a postion: to the parent. eg: position:relative; z-index:0; On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:25:17 +, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Firstly, I want to thank everybody who has helped me so far, including all the wonderful feedback I had once I asked for a site review. Now, I'm having a bit of a brain fizzle and I can't figure out how to prevent the text from being seen inbetween the buttons when I scroll. Once the text reaches the bottom of the buttons, I want it to disappear...but for the life of me, I can't figure out. Perhaps I've been working too hard. *sigh* Can somebody point the way, please? Thanks. http://www.drzeus.net/redesign/cslewis/ -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font size
Selectively quoting and removing the key point I made misrepresents what I said in my earlier email: There is nothing arrogant about wanting my design translated as close as possible across all platforms, for all visitors. There is only arrogance where the designer (or worse still, the client who the site is for) fixes the font sizes in such a way that the site visitor cannot re-size to their own liking, or re-sizing breaks the overall flow for reading. The bit where I say there is only arrogance when designers (or their clients) impose a fixed font size. I believe that the best the designer can do is ensure their fonts are specified in relative units so that a site visitor can resize the text to whatever they like. For the vast majority, those sites WILL be ready for use on arrival. And for the minority who have a vision impairment, or are advanced users with huge resolutions with tiny default settings, they can resize using the inbuilt browser functions. It really isn't as cut and dried as you are trying to imply. If designers left all text at the browser default for whatever resolution they are designing on, why bother with design at all? What not serve everything as plain html with some images aligned left or right here and there? On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:31:00 -0500, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Natalie Buxton wrote: There is nothing arrogant about wanting my design translated as close as possible across all platforms, for all visitors. [...] It is arrogant to impose it, rather than merely wish it. What you are doing is saying to your visitors I can't actually know what your default is, but regardless what it really is, it's too big for me, and I'm imposing a xx% reduction from whatever you chose as most appropriate for yourself, whether your default is 9px, or 90px or anything in between. Whether you realize or intend it, or not, it is what you're doing. It causes https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=269880 or https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=243261 or some other variation thereof to happen frequently. (Most such bugs get resolved WONTFIX or INVALID directly instead of properly marked as duplicates of https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65571 ) -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font size
Arggh Comic Sans - my eyes! my eyes! Ahem. Being a designer, I don't have a problem with letting the site visitor resize their text to whatever they like. What I do have a problem with is people telling me, that as a designer, I'm arrogant for wanting my fonts to appear slightly smaller than the default in IE/Win. When designing, I preview in Firefox and marvel at how wonderful the fonts look, in all their % and em goodness. Then I switch to IE and spend ages tweaking the sizes to be a smaller, more aesthetically pleasing balance to my layout. There is nothing arrogant about wanting my design translated as close as possible across all platforms, for all visitors. There is only arrogance where the designer (or worse still, the client who the site is for) fixes the font sizes in such a way that the site visitor cannot re-size to their own liking, or re-sizing breaks the overall flow for reading. The biggest problem with font size is the lack of consistency across browsers, platforms and resolutions. Natalie Where do people get off making this assumption? Where are the poll results that show most people think browser text is too big? Nearly everyone I've run into who thinks browser text is too big is a web page designer. Most web browser users I've run into think most web page text is too tiny. Based upon total population, the number of users who think web page text is too small has to be far greater than the number of designers who think the default is too big, who consequently reduce it on the pages they create. I'm not alone in this line of thinking: http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/font-size-quotes.html -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Avoiding image cut-off through CSS?
It wont do that unless he puts the CSS in the img {}. You can do it
inline for a specific image, paragraph, whatever, or in a span
specifically for that purpose.
You dont have to specify it globally for all images.
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:29:35 -, Tony Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The downside of that is that *every* image will be at the head of a new
page.
FWIW User agents are supposed to avoid splitting images across pages by
default.
--
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www.nataliebuxton.com
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Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
Hi Will I have DW MX and setup the template here and could not duplicate the issue on IE6/WINXP. Which IE/WIN combo are you running? Natalie On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:40:19 +0300, Will Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to use the DW, Page Design CSS - Left Halo Nav template. It works well in all browsers, except it does not properly render in IE 6 on a WinTel PC. The problem seems to be with the Capsule Story element which is part of a table. In IE 6 Win the Capsule Story table begins after the bottom edge of the PageNav section has ended. In screen resolutions over 1024x760 this causes a large gap to appear in the content section between the div class story and the table'd Capsule Story. -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] New site launched.
Link please? On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:50:21 +1300, Darren Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello team! I've just built a new site[1] and wouldn't mind if you could take a few minutes to look it over in as many platforms/user agents as you can. I develop on a Linux box running KDE, so I've only been able to check the site on Firefox and Konquerer. Both user agents seem to render the site as I would have expected. I'm also wanting opinions of usability, accessibility, and general aesthetics. Please send replies off-list as I dont want the list bogged down with my silliness. Cheers Darren. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] What do you think about slicing images?
I use image slicing on some images to stop some amatures from nicking an image. Sure, it doesn't stop everyone, but it does slow them down. You can still have meaningful alt text as needed. On 16 Nov 2004 09:49:21 +1100, Andrew Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still use slicing to split a single image into JPEG and GIF sections. For example, in a people with product shot, the people work best as a JPEG whereas the product works best as a GIF. I know you're supposed to be able to create a CSS-based slice layout and Photoshop includes this option, but I've never got one to work with any consistency. Probably it's just my inexperience. On Tuesday, 16 November 2004 8:08 AM, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting question. Slicing an image was a necessary part of creating a table based design to ensure that the table cells aligned properly to preserve the design. Designers sometimes used image slicing to improve the perceived responsiveness of a site by providing some visual feedback that the site was loading. This is far less an issue with CSS based design because the positioning of elements is created via declarations in the stylesheet. The only situation I'm aware of where image slicing is necessary in table less designs is for the various sliding doors techniques to get the left and right sides of tabs or round cornered boxes. Personally I wouldn't slice an image without a really good reason (I can't think of a really good reason right now), and the decision to slice up a large image is a decision you need to balance with the requirements of the site: 1. Is the image essential to the design? Or does it work without it? 2. Does slicing an image make the site (appear) more responsive? 3. What is the trade off between one trip to the server v. many trips 4. How complicated is it (in markup) to reconstruct the image in a browser? ./tdw On 2004-11-16 6:19 AM, Marilyn Langfeld wrote: I haven't seen any discussions about slicing images, with regards to web standards. I expect slicing is discouraged, since it is table-based. What do you do if you want to use a fairly large image in a design ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Avoiding image cut-off through CSS?
Armit You can force a page break before an image using css. page-break-before: always; Natalie On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:56:11 +1100, Amit Karmakar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People, I am working on a Intranet site that has a lot of screengrabs and while the print CSS works beautifully one problem I am facing is: Screenshots that appear towards the end of the page gets cut off and the rest of the screenshot of those images appear in the next page. Grrr! Just wondering if there is a way to avoid this? TIA -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Underscores and multiple class names (WAS: Re: [WSG] colgroup alignment issue)
I understand the sillyness of class names like 'red' 'blue' 'bold' 'fontname' etc, but what is wrong with assigning multiple class names to an object? For example, I have many images on a page, some need a border, others don't. Some with borders need to also be floated, while others don't. I achieve this with using multiple classes on the object eg class=borders floatR or just class=floatR for those that don't need the border, but must float. Is there an issue with this method or have a missed the point of your post? On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:43:24 +1100, Chris Blown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Multiple class names, a trap for younger players class=arial bold red big Don't laugh... I've seen it done .. and it was thought cool at the time, until they were told otherwise..or cracked over the head, I can't recall.. ;) and look to make it blue all you do is change the class name to from red to blue, pretty cool eh? *shivers* Regards Chris Blown ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows
I'll often use padding to cater to browsers that ignore the min-height or height attribute. On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:05:22 +1100, Damian Sweeney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damian I took out the min-height: out. Does that make any change? HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRF_css1.css This now looks broken in Firefox (image smaller and too high) and the image doesn't display at all in Safari. You've also now got height: 4empx in the logowrapper definition. Damian ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts?
Hi Ben The concept is a good one, glad to see you are running with it. I'd change some of your class/id names - example: column 1, column 2 - they may not be columns at all in the long run. Something like primary or secondary might suit? I wish I wrote clean enough markup so I didn't have to rip the guts out of a site when I go to redesign! Natalie. On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:29:00 +0100, Siteman DA - Bent Inge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I've been working on a template to use for a new version of our cms. The idea is that the HTML-code (core) will be allmost the same for all the customers. Changes to the design is to be done only in the stylesheet. (yes... like www.csszengarden.com :-) I think I've managed to get it close to perfect, but I would very much like a second opinion from you wizes out there, before I decide to put it to work. Please disregard links etc., they're not working yet. My goal is that the pages are accessible, SEO-friendly and that the design will be easy to change. I would really appreciate some quality feedback on this subject as the cms is suppose to be finished yesterday :-) The template is validated XHTML and CSS. The link to the html (xhtml) is http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/ and the stylesheet is located at http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/sitestyle.css Thanks in advance, Ben @ siteman, norway www.siteman.no -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Re[2]: [WSG] Float Problem on IE Mac
Actually no, in Australia actually. It's not a matter of popularity, but rather industry-specific quirkiness. Most designers/advertising/media/publishing types use it here. And I'd kill for a nice little powerbox and a g5 for home :) On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:57:54 +, Iain Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friday, November 12, 2004, 12:04:59 AM, Natalie wrote: Normally, I wouldn't care about it, because it works fine in Safari, but the client whom I am developing this for uses IE5 on the mac at work. Yes, the client's browser is the most important of all ;-) Also, their target market may include a lot of non-tech savvy people who have old macs/browsers. I guess you must be in the US. Here in the UK, the Mac was never specially popular. -- Iain ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Float Problem on IE Mac
Hi Iain, Normally, I wouldn't care about it, because it works fine in Safari, but the client whom I am developing this for uses IE5 on the mac at work. Also, their target market may include a lot of non-tech savvy people who have old macs/browsers. Natalie On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:56:42 +, Iain Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thursday, November 11, 2004, 11:02:11 PM, Natalie wrote: I'm currently wrestling with that most annoying of bugbears, IE 5.2.3 on the Mac. I put that into the same category as NN4 - a browser that's only used by people who like broken web pages. I don't really have good figures, because I get so few Mac IE5 hits that they're not statistically valid. Do other people get enough to worry about? -- Iain ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] FireFox Problem With UL/LI
Im using Firefox and I cant see this issue Chris, can you show us a screenshot? Natalie On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:23:57 +1100, Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey List, I am sure this is documented somewhere, but I dont know what I would call the problem. www.neester.com/beta/ The navigation menu has extra pixels in the margin after: JOURNAL, CALENDAR and UNIVERSITY... What can I do to recitfy this issue? There must be some simple solution... even IE gets this one right! :) Cheers -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check please
Hi Simon My main concern is your menu: li id=homea href=index.php/a/li There is no title on the href, and as the images are done as backgrounds, there is no indication of what is here when I have images off. I really like the design and balance. Natalie On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:16 +1000, simon dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, About to Launch this site, but before it goes could you please take a look and tell me what you think. http://www.matamanoa.com/new/ Rgds n thanks Simon ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check please
Hi Simon My main concern is your menu: li id=homea href=index.php/a/li There is no title on the href, and as the images are done as backgrounds, there is no indication of what is here when I have images off. I really like the design and balance. Natalie On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:16 +1000, simon dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, About to Launch this site, but before it goes could you please take a look and tell me what you think. http://www.matamanoa.com/new/ Rgds n thanks Simon ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check please
Hi Simon My main concern is your menu: li id=homea href=index.php/a/li There is no title on the href, and as the images are done as backgrounds, there is no indication of what is here when I have images off. I really like the design and balance. Natalie On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:16 +1000, simon dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, About to Launch this site, but before it goes could you please take a look and tell me what you think. http://www.matamanoa.com/new/ Rgds n thanks Simon ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] problem with Form -NOT FIXED
Hi Guys Sorry to bother again, but this isnt fixed. Now I have the form elements no longer wrapping, but there is a gap between the first element and the next, equal to the content in the sidebar. This is driving me batty. Had two other people here look at it also and we are all stumped. help appreciated! Natalie On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:43:15 +1100, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fixed this. I forget to place a margin-left on my main div to allow for the float if it wasn't longer. My bad. On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:25:27 +1100, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All Im in the process of laying out a form and am having problems with it in my overall page. The example is: http://nataliebuxton.com/devel/contact.htm It works fine in IE, but in Mozilla Firefox the second and third form items drop and wrap under the sidebar float. I know it's probably a clear: issue, but I cannot for the life of me locate which of my clears is the culprit. The page may look a little weird, as due to privacy issues I have removed the main header which contains client info - so it just displays a broken image. Should still give you what the basic problem is. Access keys and tab order will be refined once I work out why the thing is breaking in the first place. Thanks in advance. Natalie Buxton ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check please
Hi Simon My main concern is your menu: li id=homea href=index.php/a/li There is no title on the href, and as the images are done as backgrounds, there is no indication of what is here when I have images off. I really like the design and balance. Natalie On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:16 +1000, simon dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, About to Launch this site, but before it goes could you please take a look and tell me what you think. http://www.matamanoa.com/new/ Rgds n thanks Simon ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] problem with Form
Hi Rob, turned out to be the excellent inability of IE to count. I altered the margins, removed the extra containers and all is now fine :) On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:48:56 +0100, Rob Mientjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you tried to right float the .formContainer? It looks like the menu left bit is contained by the right side, if you float thr right side it should be okay, but I can't be sure. -- Cheers, Rob. ยป http://www.zooibaai.nl/b/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Current Page Link in own Class
Richard
That rocks.
I just implemented it and it does exactly what I was doing with
convulted CSS that had to be udated each time a new link was added to
my nav.
Thanks so much for sharing.
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:19:50 +1100, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all :o)
Just thought I'd add this. Don't know if anyone's using something like this
but...
Here's how to add a class to your navigation to make the current page stand
out a bit more without putting it in the HTML.
This also assigns the class to any sublevel nav items in nested ULs.
Handy for those who dread going through every page and manually cutting and
pasting the class name onto the right menu item.
Variables:
MyMainNavigation is the ID of the top level ul in your nav list
currentNav is the name of the class in your stylesheet
// Assign Class Name to Current Page in Side Nav
// This goes in your external JS file
function getCurrentPageLink() {
navElements=document.getElementsByTagName(ul);
for( var i = 0; i navElements.length; i++ )
if (navElements(i).className == 'MyMainNavigation') {
navAnchors=navElements(i).getElementsByTagName(a);
for( var i = 0; i navAnchors.length; i++ )
if (navAnchors(i).href == document.location.href) {
navAnchors(i).className = 'currentNav';
}
}
}
}
}
window.onload = getCurrentPageLink;
Hope this helps :o)
Richard
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Re: [WSG] Site check - http://www.conversantstudios.com.au/writing/
Its an ant. On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 20:57:07 -0500, David Laakso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Conversant Studios wrote: Hey there crew, I hope you all had a good weekend! I've finally entered the wild world of blogging and I'd love to get the feedback from the WSG crew on any layout bugs etc. http://www.conversantstudios.com.au/writing/ I've done a browsercam.com check - but I'm sure there's things I'm missing. Let me know what you think, Benvolio Very nice. Clean and simple. 1280 x1024 XP Firefox and IE. Holds together when zoomed in both browsers. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what the little illustration is under small words...big thoughts ? David http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Lists and images
You could set your image as a background: background: url(your/image/path.img) no-repeat right center; Add margins or padding as needed. OR you could do it as a SPAN inside the list OR as a definition list and have the images as your DD floated right. Lots of different ways. On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:07:39 +0200, Razvan Pop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. Here is what I'm trying to do: I have a list, each LI contains some text and an image. Text must be on the left, image on the right. Also the text must be vertical aligned middle and the height and width of the images may vary. My example: http://play.cpea.ro/css/lista.html Is this possible or not?:) -- Razvan Pop http://web-design.insoft.ro ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Access key in IE6
It works in Firefox on Win just fine. But this broken code will be causing you problems: Ph3 id=MissPA accesskey=0 HREF=#About alt=Click here to return to top of the page (Accesskey ALT + 0)H3 try validating and fixing basic errors first. On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:06:14 -0800, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/3/04 9:59 PM The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: PA accesskey=0 HREF=#Table alt=Click here to return table of Contents (Accesskey ALT + 0)click here to return to table of Contents or press ALT + 0/A/P Why does this access key work fine in Firefox 1.0 and not in IE6? HTML: http://www.asic.bc.cx/ASICAboutUs.php It doesn't appear to work in FF Mac or Safari either. Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] two column IE issues
Same here, tested on Firefox and IE all looks the same (and very nice to boot). On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:35:28 +1000, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you fixed it already? IE6 on WinXP looks the same as Firefox 0.9... On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:13:13 +1300, Darren Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey team! Like the rest of you I wish I didn't have to worry about IE. I do all my dev on a linux box running Firefox 0.10. Needless to say all my XHTML and CSS looks exactly the way I want it to...then I start testing in IE...sigh / http://dev.webdeveloper.co.nz/site/ [The CSS is in the source...] u: dev p: w3dev IE completely wrecks my design, refusing to float the sidenav to the right. Any ideas how I could possibly fix this? [NOTE: this thread is likely to bore most of you so please send responses offlist, and I'll send the solution at the end once one presents itself.] Thanks in advance! Darren www.webdeveloper.co.nz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Stadards Site Section
ALA has a fantastic article on creating accessible Popups - and I use their method of calling content to the same window name for things like portfolio pieces and larger images of product items. It degrades very nicely if JS is disabled, and scales well. Loading everything into the single window prevents that carnival you speak of. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/popuplinks/ On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:00:30 -0700, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, So the most standards compliant method would be loading each portfolio piece into a new window without JS. So if this is the case, why have so many sites resorted to the carnival that is often JS, with window upon window soaking up screen real estate? C -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Broken In Safari/IE Mac
Nick, good point :) On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:06:58 +1000, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26 Oct 2004, at 9:37 AM, Natalie Buxton wrote: Despite what I say on my site, I do not hate mac users, I am merely envious of them. Who doesn't want such a pretty and fast machine? Mmm. Maybe '...asking you rich bastards...' rather than 'telling' might get you a little more sympathetic response? Maybe 'begging'? 'Imploring'? ;) N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets
Jason, you are a God.
Thank you so much for coming up with this solution. Naming the UL has
fixed the issue completely.
I am in your debt.
Natalie ::))
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:54:38 +1000, Jason Foss
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Natalie, give this a try - it works for me. My containing div is
#navigation, and my ul is #nav
/*--- nav stuff -*/
#navigation {
float:left;
width:160px;
}
ul#nav {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
list-style: none;
width: 150px; /* Width of Menu Items */
border-bottom: 1px solid #ccc;
}
ul#nav li {
position: relative;
width: 150px;
color: #777;
background: #fff; /* IE6 Bug */
padding: 5px;
border: 1px solid #ccc; /* IE6 Bug */
border-bottom: 0;
}
li ul {
position: absolute;
left: 120px; /* Set 1px less than menu width */
top: 0;
display: none;
border-bottom: 1px solid #ccc;
}
/* Styles for Menu Items */
ul#nav li a {
display: block;
text-decoration: none;
color: #777;
}
/* Holly Hack. IE Requirement \*/
* html ul#nav li { float: left; height: 1%; }
* html ul#nav li a { height: 1%; }
/* End */
#nav a:hover {
background-color:#99;
}
li:hover ul, li.over ul { display: block; width:100%; } /* The magic */
/* end nav stuff ---*/
**
Jason Foss
Almost Anything Desktop Publishing
www.almost-anything.com.au
Telephone: (07) 4927 8033
Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312
Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701
We can do almost anything!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Natalie Buxton
Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2004 2:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets
Hi
I havent set the z-index of any other containers - I was testing to see if
adding one z-index would make a difference - which it didnt. I could z-index
all the divs though which could fix the transparency issue perhaps?
Regarding re-naming the styles for the list items - I attempted this in the
sidebar/nav List but it broke the javascript and the list itself. So instead
I added classes to the other list items.
Obviously, its still the wrong method because doing either breaks everything
even further.
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:17:35 +1000, Kevin Futter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I interpreted this as a z-index issue too ... (but I didn't check the
code).
Kevin
On 21/10/04 1:48 PM, Stephen Cheshire
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
What's the z-index of the block of text starting with Maecenas
laoreet laoreet...
is it greater than the submenus? Because I'm thinking the menus
aren't transparent but simply behind the text?
Steve.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Natalie Buxton
Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2004 1:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets
Hi All
Im having big issues with a design Im working on.
Example live: http://pixelkitty.net/devel/wsg/whirl.php
The left Menu is broken in both Mozilla and IE on Windows. As you go
further down, the menu items are transparent. The menu is the basic
one from ALA's horizontal drop down example.
issue two is that when the menu is included in the #sidebar , my
bullets dissapear in the #content.
This issue is driving me completely insane and I just cannot work
out where the conflict is.
Looking forward to your advice.
Natalie
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
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--
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**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets
Hi All Im having big issues with a design Im working on. Example live: http://pixelkitty.net/devel/wsg/whirl.php The left Menu is broken in both Mozilla and IE on Windows. As you go further down, the menu items are transparent. The menu is the basic one from ALA's horizontal drop down example. issue two is that when the menu is included in the #sidebar , my bullets dissapear in the #content. This issue is driving me completely insane and I just cannot work out where the conflict is. Looking forward to your advice. Natalie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets
Hi I havent set the z-index of any other containers - I was testing to see if adding one z-index would make a difference - which it didnt. I could z-index all the divs though which could fix the transparency issue perhaps? Regarding re-naming the styles for the list items - I attempted this in the sidebar/nav List but it broke the javascript and the list itself. So instead I added classes to the other list items. Obviously, its still the wrong method because doing either breaks everything even further. On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:17:35 +1000, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I interpreted this as a z-index issue too ... (but I didn't check the code). Kevin On 21/10/04 1:48 PM, Stephen Cheshire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the z-index of the block of text starting with Maecenas laoreet laoreet... is it greater than the submenus? Because I'm thinking the menus aren't transparent but simply behind the text? Steve. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Natalie Buxton Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2004 1:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets Hi All Im having big issues with a design Im working on. Example live: http://pixelkitty.net/devel/wsg/whirl.php The left Menu is broken in both Mozilla and IE on Windows. As you go further down, the menu items are transparent. The menu is the basic one from ALA's horizontal drop down example. issue two is that when the menu is included in the #sidebar , my bullets dissapear in the #content. This issue is driving me completely insane and I just cannot work out where the conflict is. Looking forward to your advice. Natalie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] how so I stop all the postings coming to my email box?
add a visibility:hidden and Im in. Seriously though, this list is very high volume, but I vaguely recall being warned of that when I signed up which is why I used a specific account for it. Good mail filtering solves any issues one may have with the volume. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:09:11 +1000, Ben Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Czeiger wrote: no secret handshake?! I'm outta here! ;oP Richard handshake class=secretIt's a standard that only members get :-)/handshake Ben. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
I know that SBS (TV) offer a translation service for Websites. I am assuming (dangerous thing to do) that they could also advise on character encoding issues. Might be worth giving them a call. On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:17:56 +1000, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason Foss wrote: The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Not done it myself (not having much call for other languages in the boondocks of Western Victoria), but I'd recommend both of these articles for your reference: How to choose a Translation Service - http://www.aspnetresources.com/blog/translation_services_howto.aspx The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html Cheers, Lachlan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] A little IE problem with drop shadows
.shadowbox .content {
}
Should fix it. I didn't test it, so I could be wrong. But that's the
syntax from the original example.
Cheers.
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:27:03 -0600, Richard Spence
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello All:
I was just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why the drop shadows
on a new page that I am working on don't work.
http://www.runningman.ca/private/test/shadows.html
I got the original code from:
http://labs.silverorange.com/archives/2004/january/shadowboxing
The drop shadows work very nicely in Firefox but in IE they look not so
good. Also I would like to add a tabbed nav box at the top of the main
box. I haven't been able to figure out any good ways to add the drop
shadows to the tabs, other than images of course. Any help on that
would be appreciated.
Thanks for any help in advance.
Richard Spence
RunningMan Design
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Re: [WSG] Appreciate browser check, please
Seems to be working fine on Mac - Mozilla/Safari and on Windows XP Mozilla/IE. My sis lives in Mandurah, Im from Perth, and family is from Midland. What a small world this interweb is. :) On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:24:45 +0100, Jorge Laranjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for the attachment. Ok, from now on i'll send them to the person concerned On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:51:00 +1000, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Oct 2004, at 12:33 AM, Jorge Laranjo wrote: Looks good in Safari 1.2.3 (v 125.9) in the Mac OS X. In Attach i send you a Shoot of that look... Jorge - please, no attachments to this list. 100KB+ for a message is too big. If you would like to help out with screenshots, send them off-list to the person concerned. Thanks - Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Atentamente, Jorge Laranjo email [EMAIL PROTECTED] site http://lesi.host.sk/fueg0/ msn [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text Escaping from Floats
scrap that - it now works as expected. Thanks for pointing out the height! It doesn't work in my real-world code (not uploaded) though - must be some other element in the actual page causing the issue. Thanks again. On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:07:36 +1000, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've removed the height (oops thought I already had!) and re-uploaded the file. The problem still exists :( On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:54:58 +0800, Tania Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a height set on the .floatleft class of 240px on the page you listed in your msg. Tania ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text Escaping from Floats
I forget to mention: example is at http://www.pixelkitty.net/devel/wsg/broken_float.php On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:40:09 +1000, Todd Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to quote from Pulp Fiction.. example...? On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:35:14 +1000, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All I'm wrestling with a float that just wont behave. I'm trying to stop the content from escaping from the float itself. The floats are a fluid % width and a fluid height. The content of the float will change all the time. I'd like to do two things: 1. make sure content doesn't escape 2. Force the floats to all be the same height, regardles of content without scrolling. So if Float A has 20 lines of text, I want float B to be the same height (for borders and aesthetics). I think point 2 is acheivable with javascript, but point one is elluding me! Thanks Natalie -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Problem with Footer placemenent and 1PX margin in IE.
in:
#footer {
position: relative;
float: left;
width: 752px;
}
#footer p {
text-align: center;
color: #FFF;
text-size: 85%;
padding-top: 15px;
padding-bottom: 15px;
background: url(../_images/bg_h5.png);
border-bottom: 4px solid #1c3553;
}
Try assigning the background img to footer, not footer p.
Also, you can assign a height to the #footer and make the margin:0;
Give that a try.
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:02:41 +0200, Kristof Rutten
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I've been working on a redesign of a site for sportsclubs here in
Belgium.
Up till now I've always used the old fashioned table layout but I
wanted to make
a change.
Now, this is the template : http://www.nsworx.be/_template.php
and this is the CSS behind it :
http://www.nsworx.be/_resources/screen.css
As you can see in FF/Camino/Safari the footer leaves a space.
And in IE on a windows platform there is a pixel wide spacing between
the navigation and
the background on the left.
Probably I've been messing too hard with the CSS and probably there is
just too much code
to hold it togheter but sometimes it's better to let somebody else
look at it ... I just don't
see it where I go wrong.
Thanks, .K
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Re: [WSG] Site review
Hi Moorey The site looks lovely, aesthetically it's a great job. There are some problems though: 1. Load time is excessive, due to the overall bulk of the page - 350Kb+ is about 290Kb too much for one page. 2. No access keys. 3. Images As Text - you have used images to represent text, without using any image replacement techniques. This renders your top horizontal navigation incomprehensible to non-image browsers or those with images turned off. 4. Titles Tags - your links do not have any title tags - these can be quite valuable when used correctly. That's all for now. But as I said, design wise it's awfully pretty. It needs a bit of work yet from a usability and accessibility standpoint though, as just validating your code isn't an indication of these standards. Natalie :) -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] be-nice-to-IE/MAC @media rule
Hi Terrence This does indeed look like it could be useful, could you show an example in context? Eg with rules above and below for people like me who need it a little clearer? Thanks so much. Natalie -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form layout in CSS - left column background not extending ...
Hi I use a background image in a container div instead to ensure that columns continue to the end of a set height. Not sure if this helps. On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 08:36:19 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a form laid out in css, the left columns contain the headers for the fields, and the background should be grey, however it does not extend all the way to the bottom of the form when I have a multiple select which size is greater than the text on the left. I cannot come up with anything that would solve this issue, anyone any ideas? I can't provide any links as that would make HP an unhappy customer. I can provide the HTML and css. CSS: http://tellhp1.wwwa.com/admin/wa_be/content/style/form.css (I hope it does not prompt for username) !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd; html head titleHP Support Suite 3.0/title body form id=frmRule fieldset id=rule dir=ltr lang=en legend accesskey=aAdd Rule/legend divlabel for=ruleNameName: /labelspaninput name=ruleName type=text class=required id=ruleName tabindex=1 title=Please enter the name for this rule value= size=20 maxlength=40/span/div divlabel for=ruleDescriptionDescription:/labelspaninput name=ruleDescription type=text class=required id=ruleDescription tabindex=2 title=Please enter the description for this rule value= size=20 maxlength=40/span/div divlabel for=countryCountry:/labelspan select name=country size=4 multiple id=country tabindex=3 title=Please select one or more countries option value=58Afghanistan/option /select /span/div /fieldset fieldset id=button dir=ltr lang=en title=Submit buttons input name=btnReset type=reset id=btnReset title=Click here to reset this form value=Reset class=submit input name=btnSubmit type=submit id=btnSubmit title=Click here to submit this form value=Submit class=submit /fieldset /form /body /html -- Taco Fleur Senior Web Systems Engineer http://www.webassociates.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net www.ausblog.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browsing without images
Have you tested this Marc? I had assumed that if images were switched off, it wouldn't matter if they are in the CSS, that the browser would still ignore them? Would be good to know. Natalie On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:51:36 +1000, Marc Greenstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just realised there is a problem with using css to insert images such as styling a h1 element to show a logo. Many rural users browse with images off to conserve bandwidth, however it's (in my assumption) not likely that css will be turned off too. If this is the case nothing will show and the user may not be able to determine the subject of the page or the website. My question is what (in an accessibility point of view) would be the best solution. Is there a way you can determine if images are turned off and therefor render a different stylesheet, is there a hack that can be used or should one just provide a text only version, that still uses stylesheets but doesn't insert images? Marc. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net www.ausblog.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PHP is stopping my page validating as xhtml 1.0 Strict
There is nothing wrong with your PHP, the Validator (just like the
browser) never sees it.
The exact error is:
Line 76, column 146: document type does not allow element input
here; missing one of p, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, div,
pre, address, fieldset, ins, del start-tag
...=feed55d0090f3055f4e5c6f7553ff5eb /
The mentioned element is not allowed to appear in the context in which
you've placed it; the other mentioned elements are the only ones that
are both allowed there and can contain the element mentioned. This
might mean that you need a containing element, or possibly that you've
forgotten to close a previous element.
One possible cause for this message is that you have attempted to put
a block-level element (such as p or table) inside an inline
element (such as a, span, or font).
And this is line 76 and your Form:
76: form action=index.php method=post id=submissionforminput
type=hidden name=PHPSESSID
value=feed55d0090f3055f4e5c6f7553ff5eb /
77: pUsername/p
78: p class=inputfieldinput size=10 type=text
maxlength=13 name=username//p
79: pPassword/p
80: p class=inputfieldinput size=10 type=password
maxlength=13 name=password//p
81: p class=buttoninput class=button type=submit
value=Logon name=logon//p
82: /form
But, I cannot work out why you are getting that result. Hopefully this
bit of information Ive added for you will help.
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:39:40 +, Steven Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've got a page with a small logon form, nothing major. It has a couple of
small hurdles for validating as XHTML 1.0 strict though.
The first is that XHTML doesn't support the name attribute, so of course my
php that processes this login feature won't work with id instead of name. Is
there something in PHP that I don't know about? Well in JavaScript I'd just
have used the id attribute and then getElementById() in the script. But does
PHP have this ability? Or am I just in a pickle of having to put up with it
because its the way it is. What is the alternative to using name if you want
to use PHP?
Secondly, the page won't validate as XHTML 1.0 strict because of something
in the said php code. Mmmm.
http://blog.lindenlangdon.com/prototype/
The php code is
$username = strip_tags(trim($_POST['username']));
$password = strip_tags(trim($_POST['password']));
if (isset($logon)) // if login is pressed
{
// open the database and check if the user
exists
include(level/include/dbfuncs.inc);
$link = connectToDatabase();
if(!link)
{
print pdatabase connection
error/p;
mysql_close($link);
exit();
}
// run a query to get all of the user and
password combinations
$query = select * from member where
username = \$username\
password = \$password\;
$result = mysql_query($query);
// if one set matches
if (mysql_num_rows($result)== 1)
{
header(location:
level/form/submission.php); // go to
submission.php
}
else
{
header(location: index.php); // go to index.php again
}
}
---
Any advice on this one would be greatly appreciated thanx. Its got me
stumped.
Steven Clark
www.nortypig.com
www.blog.nortypig.com
_
All only $4! Get the latest mobile tones, images and logos:
http://fun.mobiledownloads.com.au/191191/index.wl
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To be held in Sydney,
Re: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites
Yeah, but the Kiwis are not Australians, they are New Zealanders, so we have an excuse ;p That said, looking forward to the notes being available, impossible to get to Sydney to be at the real deal. On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:04:26 -0700, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted (from San Diego, those in Los Angeles treat us like Australians treat the kiwis. We just don't have a cute nickname.) Natalie -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net www.ausblog.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Styling Text...
Hi Chris
B U I are not exactly outlawed.
You can still use it, and I do believe b and i are perfectly valid in
XHTML - I use them myself.
Someone would have to check the underline though - I'm of the opinion
text should never be underlined unless it is a link.
Natalie :)
- Original Message -
From: Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:31:37 +1000
Subject: [WSG] Styling Text...
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hey WSG,
I am just writing because I have been wondering if there is a better
way of styling text.
Since BUI etc... are all outlawed and now depreciated...
How do you style your inner P text?
At the moment, when I have a paragraph and I want to bold a word, i
use: span class=bold
And in the stylesheet I have a series of:
.bold{font-weight:bold;}
.underline{text-decoration:underline;}
.italic{font-style:italic;}
So a bold italic word which is also underlined is just: span
class=bold italic underlineword/span
I am sure that there is a better way because this method is becomming
SOOOooo so very verbose!
An example, it used to be b/b 7 characters for bold, now is span
class=bold/span 26 Characters...
Dont think I dont know about em's etc... but how about italic etc...?
I know the idea of stylesheets is to have styles that are specific for
the purpose...
But what if I just want to have underlined text, or just italic, or
bold, just generic bold,underlined,italic text??
Say if I were to code a BBCODE system into my Blog etc... for myself.
What would I use to keep it standards compliant?
Thanks for the help!
I hope its not too confusing!
:S
- Chris Stratford
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Re: [WSG] List Item Background Disappearing in IE
Oh, also IE doesnt like images under 1k in size. Try to make your
bullets a little over 1k and see if that does the trick.
Nataie :)
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:34:25 +1000, Andrew Coffey
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've googled and discovered that yeah it's a known bug, Im just wandering if anyone
has any suggestions on how to remedy it?
DETAILS:
I have an unordered list using css to load/position a graphical bullet point.
ul li {background:transparent url(images/li_sprite.gif) no-repeat 0 0}
It works fine across the board until the text within the li/li wraps.
At this point the bullet disappears in IE5 and up (and Opera).
Adding a colour to the background (let's say white #fff) certainly fixes the
problem.
ul li {background:#fff url(images/li_sprite.gif) no-repeat 0 0}
But in this particular instance I can't use a background colour (hence transparent)
and I've exhausted all my options. Im not alone in the world:
http://www.alistapart.com/discuss/taminglists/18/#c4087
But there just doesn't seem to be a definitive solution... any info/ideas or
otherwise on a way to fix this would be a great help.
Cheers
Andy
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Re: [WSG] List Item Background Disappearing in IE
Oh, also IE doesnt like images under 1k in size. Try to make your
bullets a little over 1k and see if that does the trick.
Nataie :)
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 16:27:12 +1000, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hve you tried adding:
list-style: inside;
or
list-style: outside;
I dont know if it will fix your problem, but it has helped me on a
couple of occassions.
Natalie
- Original Message -
From: Andrew Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:34:25 +1000
Subject: [WSG] List Item Background Disappearing in IE
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I've googled and discovered that yeah it's a known bug, Im just
wandering if anyone has any suggestions on how to remedy it?
DETAILS:
I have an unordered list using css to load/position a graphical bullet point.
ul li {background:transparent url(images/li_sprite.gif)
no-repeat 0 0}
It works fine across the board until the text within the li/li wraps.
At this point the bullet disappears in IE5 and up (and Opera).
Adding a colour to the background (let's say white #fff) certainly
fixes the problem.
ul li {background:#fff url(images/li_sprite.gif) no-repeat 0 0}
But in this particular instance I can't use a background colour (hence
transparent) and I've exhausted all my options. Im not alone in the
world:
http://www.alistapart.com/discuss/taminglists/18/#c4087
But there just doesn't seem to be a definitive solution... any
info/ideas or otherwise on a way to fix this would be a great help.
Cheers
Andy
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