Re: [WSG] navigation: li display:inline or li float:left?
It should also be noted that W3C spec dictates that a floated element has a defined width. Not so with inline elements. scott reston raleigh, nc Paul Sturgess wrote: Julián asked what the advantage of floating lis is over display inline. Essentially it depends on how you want to display your menu. Using the float method ensures the li's are block level and therefore you can use margins and padding etc. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE's transparency filter breaks absolute positioning
URL: http://scott.therestons.com/development/test.html To make up for lacking PNG transparency support in IE, I'm using the filter: attribute to make a div's background transparent (yep - i'm aware that IE will make all descendents transparent, too...) I'm running into a problem, though - when I apply filter (as in filter:alpha(opacity=80);) to a containing div, it no longer lets absolutely placed divs within it to break free of it's box dimensions. the inner div is clipped by the dimensions of the container. Everything appears to work fine if the transparency filter is removed or if the containing div is RELATIVELY positioned, but the two together cause problems. Can someone suggest a hack or workaround that allows transparency AND absolute positioning? I need the containing div to be absolutely positioned. I'm open to alternate ways of applying a transparent background to the containing div. Thanks! scott reston [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scott.therestons.com raleigh, nc USA ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element
I'm working on a design using a tweak of Son of Suckerfish[1] for menus. Rather than have the menus cascade down and to the right (relatively positioned), I want the sub-menus to position in equally-sized blocks to the right (absolutely positioned). HTML: http://capstrat.com/development/example/ CSS: http://capstrat.com/development/example/elements/site.css If you mouse over the 1st item in the blue box, then the 1st item in the gold box while using IE, you'll see the issue. The absolutely positioned gold box contains the grey-background sub-menus. I've nudged the grey boxes to the left a bit so that you can see where IE renders them. The gold box 'breaks out' of the blue box just fine because the blue box is relatively positioned. If you search for =:NAVIGATION in the CSS, you'll find the relevant code describing the menus. The blue box (parent UL) is ul.navigation-primary. HTML validates and works fine in Firefox and friends. CSS wont validate because of the opacity filter to appease IE, but removing the offending code doesn't repair the problem. Can someone suggest a fix or give some advice that might help me free the little grey boxes from IE opression? Thanks! Scott Reston Raleigh, NC [1]http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element
I'm working on a design using a tweak of Son of Suckerfish[1] for menus. Rather than have the menus cascade down and to the right (relatively positioned), I want the sub-menus to position in equally-sized blocks to the right (absolutely positioned). HTML: http://capstrat.com/development/example/ CSS: http://capstrat.com/development/example/elements/site.css If you mouse over the 1st item in the blue box, then the 1st item in the gold box while using IE, you'll see the issue. The absolutely positioned gold box contains the grey-background sub-menus. I've nudged the grey boxes to the left a bit so that you can see where IE renders them. The gold box 'breaks out' of the blue box just fine because the blue box is relatively positioned. If you search for =:NAVIGATION in the CSS, you'll find the relevant code describing the menus. The blue box (parent UL) is ul.navigation-primary. HTML validates and works fine in Firefox and friends. CSS wont validate because of the opacity filter to appease IE, but removing the offending code doesn't repair the problem. Can someone suggest a fix or give some advice that might help me free the little grey boxes from IE opression? Thanks! Scott Reston Raleigh, NC [1]http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] (sorry about the double post!) EOM
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Re: [**] [WSG] Know any standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editors for a CMS integration?
you're probably about to get an invitation to join the CMS list from about 5 people... that's probably a better forum for the question... that said, i've been happy with XStandard (xstandard.com). very configurable and xhtml-friendly. works in IE and FF on a pc. OSX support for FF is slated for this fall, i understand. scott reston raleigh, nc Matt Harris wrote: I'm looking for a standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editor to be included in a custom-built CMS. It needs to works with IE, Firefox, and Safari. It should run directly from the browser and not require users to download and install any lcoal plug-ins. Has this been created yet? Has anyone seen up-to-date reviews of the latest and greatest WYSIWYG editors? Best regards, Matt Harris www.focusontheclouds.com http://www.focusontheclouds.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Know any standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editors for a CMS integration?
XStandard allows multiple instances per page, but it will install to the client machine. there's a cab for IE and an xpi for FF - both of which will install via the browser. It has some nice asset upload features and web services that'll run on most server-scripting languages, too. support's been great, too. scott reston raleigh, nc Matt Harris wrote: Scott, Thanks for the link to xStandard. However, I'm looking for a solution which doesn't require any local machine software and cab allow for multiple rich text areas on one page. Does xstandard meet those requirements? Also, unfortunately I haven't recieved any CMS invitations. Do you have a link to the list? Thanks! Matt Harris www.focusontheclouds.com http://www.focusontheclouds.com On 8/26/05, *scott reston* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you're probably about to get an invitation to join the CMS list from about 5 people... that's probably a better forum for the question... that said, i've been happy with XStandard (xstandard.com http://xstandard.com). very configurable and xhtml-friendly. works in IE and FF on a pc. OSX support for FF is slated for this fall, i understand. scott reston raleigh, nc Matt Harris wrote: I'm looking for a standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editor to be included in a custom-built CMS. It needs to works with IE, Firefox, and Safari. It should run directly from the browser and not require users to download and install any lcoal plug-ins. Has this been created yet? Has anyone seen up-to-date reviews of the latest and greatest WYSIWYG editors? Best regards, Matt Harris www.focusontheclouds.com http://www.focusontheclouds.com http://www.focusontheclouds.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
Thanks, Ingo... this is exactly what I needed. Thanks for the clear
description.
For those playing along at home, the details for float rules are at:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#float-position
scott
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ingo Chao
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:56 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
Scott Reston schrieb:
... If I
wrap the divs in one big div, I still see the same issue.
The thing I'm most interested in, though, is the WHY? I want to
understand the rule that I've run afoul of so that I can avoid it in
the
future.
I'm not getting 'float drop' caused by a too-wide element being forced
down (least I don't think that's the case...) What nature of floats am
I
missing? Shouldn't the floated pull-quote float within its container
and
ignore the sidebar's dimensions?
No.
You might accept that IE don't get floating correct. The situation in IE
is completely different from other browsers, because the #content at the
left has a dimension, a width, so the element gains layout: no float
outside of this layout element can interfere with the content inside
this layout element, and no clear inside this element will interfere
with the floats outside (place a clear: both at pullquote, and you won't
see any effect, compare the result with the other browsers). So, in IE,
the pull-quote floats within its container as if there was no other
float outside of the layout element. If you want to learn how floats are
working, it's a good idea to switch to a compliant browser.
Now, to the real browsers: Note that the left float is at the same level
with the last preceding floating sidebar.
..sidebar { width: 190px; float: right; clear: both; ... }
#content { width: 300px; ...}
.pullquote { width: 150px; float: left; ...}
div class=sidebar.../div //no.1
div class=sidebar.../div //no.2
div id=content
div class=pullquote.../div // sits at the same level as no.2
...
...
/div
This is float Rule 5: A floating element's top may not be higher than
the top of any earlier floating or block level element. This rule, if
respected [1], simply won't let your left floating pullquote flow up.
Once accepted, the next question could be: Ok, but why does the content
starts at top=0, isn't the clear:right in the second sidebar container
preventing this?
No. Clearing does not stop floating. Clear:right, applied to the sidebar
no.2, just don't allow any right floating element to the right side of
this sidebarno.2, nothing else.
Now the sidebar no.2 drops under sidebar no.1. Both have still
float:right, that means, the #content will flow to the left side of
both as high as possible.
The next question could be: why can the text move up, but the preceding
left float pullquote itself does not move up? Why does the pullquote not
stop the content? The answer is that floats are taken out of the normal
page flow, and the text just respects the float:left of the pullquote
and the float:right of the sidebars, and moves up between them.
One solution of your layout problem, as mentioned before, is to unfloat
(!) the sidebars and to wrap them in a right-floated container:
#rightside {float: right; width: 190px; }
.sidebar {background-color: rgb(102, 204, 255); margin-top: 5px; }
div id=rightside
div class=sidebar.../div
div class=sidebar.../div
/div
div id=content
div class=pullquote.../div
...
...
/div
Ingo
[1] Opera7.54, but not Op8, goes for float Rule 8 and places the
pullquote float as high as possible=next to the first right float.
This looks similar to the situation in IE6, but is completely different,
again, try to clear pullquote to see.
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[WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
I've created a pared down example to illustrate a problem I'm having with floats. My confusion suggests that I'm missing some basic concept of how floats behave and I'm finding it frustrating... http://www.capstrat.com/development/test-float.html In this example, all code is wrapped with a containing div (yellow background). The two side-bar divs live (code-wise) just before the content div (dark grey backround), just inside the container div and are floated right. The pull-quote (violet background) is the first thing inside of the content div. I'm expecting this to look the way that IE renders it: sidebars to the right, pull-quoute in the upper-left corner of the content div. In Firefox, the pullquote drops within the content to clear the first sidebar. Why? Can someone give me a little guidance on this? Scott Reston Raleigh, NC, USA www.capstrat.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
I've received a couple of good suggestions... thanks! The easiest fix appears to be (as Ricci suggested) to put the pull-quote first, before all of the other items. That bugs me on a semantics basis, though, since I consider the pull-quote as part of the content... also, it might be impractical based on the CMS-editable 'block' on the page. David's suggestion keeps things together semantically, but once I float my content, it gets removed from the flow, making it outstretch its wrapper div (at least in standards-compliant browsers). I'd like to avoid keeping the sidebar as one big item because of the way my content is organized... the sidebars will likely be separate cross-sells. If I wrap the divs in one big div, I still see the same issue. ** The thing I'm most interested in, though, is the WHY? I want to understand the rule that I've run afoul of so that I can avoid it in the future. ** I'm not getting 'float drop' caused by a too-wide element being forced down (least I don't think that's the case...) What nature of floats am I missing? Shouldn't the floated pull-quote float within its container and ignore the sidebar's dimensions? S:R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ricci Angela Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:13 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment Hi, Scott You have to put your quote before all like : div class=pullquoteppull-quote text/p/div div class=sidebarpsidebar item 1. sidebar item 1. sidebar item 1. /p/div div class=sidebarpsidebar item 2. sidebar item 2. sidebar item 2. /p/div div id=content pUt labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ullamco laboris nisi lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, velit esse cillum dolore. Ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat./p ... /div /div ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] block elements should expand to contain inline children?
H - I'm having trouble dealing with one of those CSS concepts that I
considered as easy as breathing...
I've got a block-level element (a div) that contains an inline element
(a strong tag, but span would work the same...). When I apply padding to
the internal element, it oversteps the boundaries of its parent element
by the amount of the padding.
Example:
div {
background-color:#FF0066;
}
div strong {
padding: 4px;
background-color:#00;
}
divstrongTEXT TEXT/strong/div
(example posted at http://www.capstrat.com/development/test/test.html)
In this case the strong tag (in all tested browsers except for IE6+)
exceeds the boundaries of the div by 4px.
I thought the rule was that a container should expand to hold its
contents (excepting floated elements...)
Apparently, I've been wrong all along. Can anyone kick me in the right
direction?
Scott Reston
Director, Web Development
Capstrat
919/882.1966 v
919/834.7959 f
1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102
Raleigh, NC 27607
www.capstrat.com
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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RE: [WSG] DIV Container Closing prematurely
Admittedly, I haven't taken a look at your CSS, but my initial gut response is that you're floating the 2 column divs. Applying float to a div pulls it out of the flow of the document, so Firefox is actually behaving correctly. IE makes containing divs expand to hold their content, but according to the spec, that's a bug. Take a look at Holly 'n John's article [1]about a nice workaround that doesn't involve extra semantic markup. Note that the clearfix class gets applied to the containing div, not the contained - a bit that I missed when first working with these examples... [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html Scott RestonDirector, Web DevelopmentCapstrat919/882.1966 v919/834.7959 f1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102Raleigh, NC 27607www.capstrat.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of MORGAN CRAFTSent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:02 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] DIV Container Closing prematurely Hey, I made my first website for the ohio senate and I used CSS-positioning for most of the website. The webpage views fine under IE, but in Firefox my News Room section does not display correctly. The container_frame class(the tan block - added the color so you can see which divblock I'm talking about)I have that is supposed to encapsulate the entire newsroom section, but itcloses when a the container_archives class opens for the lower archive section. http://www.mgan.net/senate/index.php?selection=newsRoom If you look at the "home" section of the page there are a two flash objects imbedded in a similiar layout which displays just fine. Not sure what the problem is with the news room, I just know if I change the archives_container class from float:left/right to none the container_frame goes down the rest of the way. I've spent almost 2 weeks now trying different things to fix it and I'm getting really frustrated. If someone could shed any light on the problem I'd be grateful. I'm new to CSS, only been playing with it for a little overa month so if there something I'm missing please tell me, I can't learn from my mistakes if I don't know what they are. So... look at it in IE first and then view it in Firefox to see what I'm talking about. Thanks for any and all replies, Morgan** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] floating an image hides the container's background
For those playing along at home...
Patrick's answer led me to an interesting page. Many of you are probably familiar with
this, but here's a way to fix the problem I had without adding an extra div to the
document:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html
works great in CSS2 browsers, degrades will in IE (since IE has it's own bug - it
always contains floated divs).
scott
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] floating an image hides the container's background
If you float all the content of a div, you take that content out of the
normal document flow. The containing div is now empty, and doesn't wrap
around the floated elements anymore...it's still there, but has a height
of 0 (or well, of whatever non-floated content is left there, in your case).
Either keep one element non floating, or add something with a clear
property after the floated elements.
Patrick
Scott Reston wrote:
I'm experiencing a problem with Mozilla/Safari. I have a container div with a
background and two floated elements inside it. when I float one, I get the infamous
IE 3px bug[1]. so... I float both (since this avoids the problem with the 3px bug)
and the background of the containing div vanishes.
with float applied to div and image:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/obrienatkinsx/test1.html
with float applied only to the div:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/obrienatkinsx/test2.html
the elements in question are:
div#content-main #portfolio-text {
margin: 0;
float: left;
padding-top: 30px;
width: 186px;
font-size: .8em;
}
img#portfolio-image {
float: left;
width: 465px; height: 465px;
margin-left: 1px; padding: 0;
}
[1] http://positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html
can someone give me some guidance on this?
thanks!
Scott Reston
Director, Web Development
Capstrat
919/882.1966 v
919/834.7959 f
1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102
Raleigh, NC 27607
www.capstrat.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:04 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Some light reading...
Westciv's free online CSS course - week 1 of CSS Level 1:
http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html
A Better Image Rotator:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterrotator/
WaSP Interviews Jim Ramsey on the redesign of The San Francisco Examiner
http://www.webstandards.org/learn/interviews/jramsey/
Pixy-style CSS no-preload rollovers, with PNG support for IE
http://devilock.mine.nu/pixie/
Redesign of WWF UK:
http://www.wwf.org.uk/core/index.asp
Andy talks about the redesign of WWF UK:
http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/wwf.html
New PGA site launch:
http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/2004/
Behind the scenes of PGA rebuild:
http://whatdoiknow.org/archives/001797.shtml
Learning CSS:
http://9rules.com/whitespace/design/learning_css.php
Thanks
Russ
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration
[WSG] Image replacement techniques for linked elements
I'm a big fan of the Fahrner image replacement technique and it's variants
[http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/]. The problem is that they
generally depend on hiding the text that is being replaced by setting it's display to
none, it's visibility to hidden or some variation that removes the text. This makes it
difficult to replace lnks with images as the link itself is unavailable to the browser
once it's hidden.
Has anyone had any luck with an image replacement techniques that leaves the link
available? for instance, (using Dwyer's method):
#navigation-main ul li {
float: left;
}
#navigation-main ul li#first {
width: 50px; height: 20px;
background-image: url(first.gif);
}
#navigation-main ul li#first a {
display: block;
width: 0; height: 0;
overflow: hidden;
}
ul
li id=firsta href=#First/a/li
...
/ul
Scott Reston
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
winmail.dat
[WSG] nested lists as menus...
i'm having some difficulty styling nested lists for use as a menu. I'd like lis in the top-level list to display horizontally, with the nested lists displayed below their parent. for instance top level top level sub sub sub sub i've got a simplified demo up at: http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html i can get this to work by floating the list items left, but floated elements should have a width and i won't know the contents of the menu (someone else makes edits) so that i can set a width. i don't want to set widths as a percentage since i want the spacing to be the same between each element. The working, but non-spec version is at the top of this page: http://www.capstrat.com/cs/ can anyone give me a hand with this? Scott Reston Director, Web Development Capstrat 919/882.1966 v 919/834.7959 f 1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102 Raleigh, NC 27607 www.capstrat.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Valid XHTML and Flash
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay here's one of the leading standard-compliant flash inclusion techniques. enjoy! scott -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Olajide Olaolorun Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Valid XHTML and Flash Hi, I was designing a client site today when I decided to add a little flash to the site. I did and after that the XHTML page goes invalid because of the embed code in the page. I know that some other browsers like Firefox might not work without the embed code, so please is there a way to make the page valid again and also to make sure that others who use non-IE can see the flash... This is the code: object classid=clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354 codebase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,42,0; id=movie width=700 height=180 param name=movie value=movie.swf / param name=quality value=high / param name=bgcolor value=#FF / embed name=movie src=movie.swf quality=high bgcolor=#FF swLiveConnect=true width=700 height=180 type=application/x-shockwave-flash pluginspage=http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer;/embed /object --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] nested lists as menus...
thanks! just to clarify, i'm not trying to create drop-downs. just style the menu so that top-levels are horizontal with sub-lists beneath. http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html shows what i'm going for. the big problem is that i want the width to be determined by the size of the content, so i can't set a width for the items. display: inline doesn't seem to work. scott -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mugur Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] nested lists as menus... Hi, Scott I think one of the following liks shoul put you back on track ! http://www.alistapart.com/articles/horizdropdowns/ or http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/ Browse the site, for it has other variants and variations that may be usefull to you this time ! Hope it helps :) Scott Reston wrote: i'm having some difficulty styling nested lists for use as a menu. I'd like lis in the top-level list to display horizontally, with the nested lists displayed below their parent. for instance top level top level sub sub sub sub i've got a simplified demo up at: http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html i can get this to work by floating the list items left, but floated elements should have a width and i won't know the contents of the menu (someone else makes edits) so that i can set a width. i don't want to set widths as a percentage since i want the spacing to be the same between each element. The working, but non-spec version is at the top of this page: http://www.capstrat.com/cs/ can anyone give me a hand with this? Scott Reston Director, Web Development Capstrat 919/882.1966 v 919/834.7959 f 1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102 Raleigh, NC 27607 www.capstrat.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Mac IE 5.2 and horizontally presented lis
Thanks, Anton. Turned out that the thing that made the difference was giving the lis a width. The problem is that, since I'm using text, the lis don't have a set pixel width. Since all of my text is expressed in ems, I'm working on going back and defining margins and widths for those lis in ems instead of pixels. Thanks for the push in the right direction! scott reston -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anton Andreasson Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 4:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Mac IE 5.2 and horizontally presented lis I'm running into a problem with the presentation of my primary navigation in Mac IE 5.2. [..] http://www.capstrat.com/development/cs2004/template4.html First, try to use div#navigation ul instead of div#nav-primary ul, if that's what you want to control (at least it becomes much easier to read that way ;) and try to indent your code approprietly. Second, I think that your main problem is the lack of a width attribute to your floats. Also IE5/Mac prefer floated items instead of inlined, but that may vary. Try this first and come back if you still encounter problems. cheers, /Anton -- What your body lacks, your head compensates. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Mac IE 5.2 and horizontally presented lis
I'm in the process of redesigning my company's site using a non-tabled layout. For the most part, things are going well (if not slowly) as I hone my CSS skills (thanks! to everyone on-list that's helped me out so far). I'm running into a problem with the presentation of my primary navigation in Mac IE 5.2. I'm pretty confident that I should be able to get this to work (the examples i've learned from check out just fine doing a similar effect). I'm looking for some help with: http://www.capstrat.com/development/cs2004/template4.html the div in question is #navigation. i've essentially got: ul litop-level label ul lisub-item/li lisub-item/li /ul /li lianother top-level label/li /ul the li's in the top-level should display horizontally, with the subs vertically below them. Is there anyone that might be able to kick me in the right direction? i've built from the list tutorials at ALA and Maxdesign.com correct: http://www.browsercam.com/projects/81363/1343480.jpg not so correct: http://www.browsercam.com/projects/81363/1343476.jpg scott reston * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline
it's important to note that even though you can't set width, you can set margin and padding on inline elements, which can be really useful... for example, i've used a trick from Eric Meyer's first book on some of mysitesand created a special 'opens a new window' class of a that includes a little icon next to it. you create a littlebit ofpaddingin the a then apply the icon as a static background placed within the padding. it's useful to visually communicate that the link will open in a new window... s:r -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Chris StratfordSent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:57 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] setting width for lis when inlinehope someone finds this discussion useful.Yes I do!I have also wondered why this happens.I mean, because something is INLINE, doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to have a set width...I would think its more of a reason to set a width, because it is being set inline with another element - so the width is important.??I had the same issues, and always I end up forgetting the whole idea, and just throwing away all the navigation code i make.Thanks for the discussion :)Scott Reston wrote: Tania - you're correct. The "display:inline" turns out to be, er, vestigal and the effect works fine without it. What Iwasworried about is why is "float:left" was allowing me to give the li a width. But... with the "display:inline" out of the way, the li is a block-element, so applying width is OK. Is the issue that giving an element float makes the browser treat it as a block element? Thanks for bearing with me, everyone... hope someone finds this discussion useful. s:r
RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline
Tania
- you're correct. The "display:inline" turns out to be, er, vestigal and the
effect works fine without it. What Iwasworried about is why is
"float:left" was allowing me to give the li a width. But... with the
"display:inline" out of the way, the li is a block-element, so applying
width is OK.
Is the
issue that giving an element float makes the browser treat it as a block
element?
Thanks
for bearing with me, everyone... hope someone finds this discussion
useful.
s:r
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:50
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] setting
width for lis when inline
Hi Scott,
Well I'm a bit of a novice when it comes down to it,but
when I initially added the "float: left;" I removed the
"display:inline;"on both the ul and the li as I found it
un-necessary in the original code you sent. While it may be necessay in light of
other elements, is it possible to remove it on the li class? Would this
solve both the problem of working as you require and still remaingin within the
properspecs?
LikeI said, I'm on a learning curve with CSS
standards complianceso if I am missing somethinghere I'd appreiate
any clarification from Patrick or any other more knowledgable
folks
Tania
- Original Message -
From:
Scott
Reston
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:49
PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] setting width for
lis when inline
Patrick - Thanks for your detailed answer (and your
patience...)This would suggest that the fix I found exploits a
(perhaps temporary) flaw in the browser render engines. To recap for folks
just joining in, here's a short description of what I'm trying to
do:the code below should make the UL display as a horizontal row.
"number one" should be 100px wide, "number two" 150px (unless i've mistyped,
of course...)This works for me, but I'd like to 'get it right' and not
rely on an exploit... begin code snippet
ul id="example"li
id="number1"number one/lili id="number2"number
two/li/ulul#example {height:
16px;margin: 0; border: 0;position: relative;display:
inline;list-style-type: none;}ul#example li {
display: inline;float: left;height: 16px;background-color:
#999;}ul#example li#number1 {width:
100px;}ul#example li#number2 {width:
150px;} end code snippet
for anyone interested, I'm carrying
this idea a step further and applying the Gilder/Levin image replacement
technique to replace 'number one/two' with icons. this is used for the
"email/pdf" links about half-way down the page at:http://www.capstrat.com/development/cs2004/template2.htmlsemantically,
an unordered list; visually, icons. the width-setting is important to getting
the image-replacement to work
properly.scott-Original
Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Behalf Of Patrick LaukeSent:
Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:34 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:
RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline From:
Scott Reston Does this suggest that inline elements
cannot have a width property at all?Yes. Any browser that applies
width specified in CSS to an inlineelement (or even a block element that
has been set to display:inline)is not behaving in line with the
spec. Can you clarify what the spec means by 'replaced'?http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/conform.html#replaced-elementIn
simplified terms, replaced elements are those that...heck...arereplaced by
something else when displayed. the IMG element is replacedwith the image
itself, INPUT,TEXTAREA,SELECT are replaced with UI elementsfor the form
widgets, OBJECT is replaced with whatever external pieceof "multimedia"
(god I hate that term) you specify.To take the example of IMG, this
has an intrinsic dimension (defined justbelow "replaced element" on the
link above) in that the image is made up ofa fixed number of pixels, so
the width/height are part of the image itself.Although it's inline, the
intrinsic width is then honoured in the display(but again setting any
width in the CSS is still ignored)Hope this makes some kind of
sense...as I'm starting to confuse myself here
;)PatrickPatrick H.
LaukeWebmaster / University of Salfordhttp://www.salford.ac.uk*The
discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor
some hints on posting to the list getting
help*
*The
discussion lis
RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline
er. stupid question. an li IS a block element. sorry... s:r -Original Message- Is the issue that giving an element float makes the browser treat it as a block element?
RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline
for
all interested (and thanks to everyone), tania had the answer that worked out
for me. the lis need to have some float (within the ul) or they
all bunch up.
ps -
for anyone that's interested, i'm not quite doing the ala-tabs thing. i'm
replacing a list of links with associated icons, replacing the text in the
lis with images via css.presents like a text list to readers, etc.
visually, it looks like a row of (differing-width) icons.
s:r
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:24
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] setting
width for lis when inline
By adding " float: left; " to your li class all your
list items will continue on along one horizontal line. If you leave the
li width at 200 they wil be even spaced but if you remove this they will
of course bunch up closer.
Tania
- Original Message -
From:
Scott
Reston
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 5:32
AM
Subject: [WSG] setting width for
lis when inline
I'm attempting to build a horizontal menu that from an
unordered list. My plan is to provide the list as text in the html, then use
an image-replacement scheme (ala http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/)
to swap out the text with images. It looks to me like image-replacement
depends on me being able to set the width of the containing element, in my
case, an aI want the CSS to work without being altered,
whether i include all of the li menu items or not, so I don't know how
wide the overall ul will be when the page is actually created.
Is it possible to set width on an inline element? Can I get the same
effect from some sort of absolute positioning (when i don't know the widths of
elements)?for instance,
ullishort/lilithis is a longer
item/liliand some
other/li/ulul {display: inline;}li
{display: inline;width: 200px;height: 50px;background-color:
#eee;}in this example, i'd like to see that as 3 200px squares in
a horizontal line...any help appreciated...scott
reston*The
discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor
some hints on posting to the list getting
help*
RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline
Thanks for the additional information. I'm not sure that I understand the fine point, though. Does this suggest that inline elements cannot have a width property at all? I read this to say If you don't specify left, right, margin-left, or margin-right, the default value is 0. (Incidentally, I've adopted the habit of setting margin and padding to 0 rather than trusting the browser defaults.) Can you clarify what the spec means by 'replaced'? Thanks... slowly getting my head around this. s:r -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Patrick Lauke Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline From: Scott Reston [...] Is it possible to set width on an inline element? even though you now have a solution, I'd just like to answer this part of your question. As per http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visudet.html#q4 10.3.1 Inline, non-replaced elements The 'width' property does not apply. A specified value of 'auto' for 'left', 'right', 'margin-left' or 'margin-right' becomes a computed value of '0'. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
right, but you're TESTING on IE, aren't you? it's nice to have a tool similar to the ff/moz toolbar when you're trying to figure out 'just what the heck is IE thinking?'. thanks Mark. s:r ps - better to take issue with the semantic use of 'kewl', no? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lee Roberts Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar Egads!!! Just when we're all talking about giving up on IE and using something that really works we get another group of programmers building something for IE. Although I'd like to give it a shot and provide them some feedback, I won't touch it because it's IE-based. It's bad enough everyone thinks they need to do it, but for an accessibility group to do it I'm flabbergasted. Those that try it can provide feedback. I'd love to know what you think. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: Mark Harwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar Just incase none of you have come accross this bt i think its kinda kewl and handy... http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/index.html Have fun! Mark Harwood www.phunky.co.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline
Patrick - Thanks for your detailed answer (and your patience...)
This would suggest that the fix I found exploits a (perhaps temporary) flaw in the
browser render engines. To recap for folks just joining in, here's a short description
of what I'm trying to do:
the code below should make the UL display as a horizontal row. number one should be
100px wide, number two 150px (unless i've mistyped, of course...)
This works for me, but I'd like to 'get it right' and not rely on an exploit...
begin code snippet
ul id=example
li id=number1number one/li
li id=number2number two/li
/ul
ul#example {
height: 16px;
margin: 0; border: 0;
position: relative;
display: inline;
list-style-type: none;
}
ul#example li {
display: inline;
float: left;
height: 16px;
background-color: #999;
}
ul#example li#number1 {
width: 100px;
}
ul#example li#number2 {
width: 150px;
}
end code snippet
for anyone interested, I'm carrying this idea a step further and applying the
Gilder/Levin image replacement technique to replace 'number one/two' with icons. this
is used for the email/pdf links about half-way down the page at:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/cs2004/template2.html
semantically, an unordered list; visually, icons. the width-setting is important to
getting the image-replacement to work properly.
scott
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Patrick Lauke
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] setting width for lis when inline
From: Scott Reston
Does this suggest that
inline elements cannot have a width property at all?
Yes. Any browser that applies width specified in CSS to an inline
element (or even a block element that has been set to display:inline)
is not behaving in line with the spec.
Can you clarify what the spec means by 'replaced'?
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/conform.html#replaced-element
In simplified terms, replaced elements are those that...heck...are
replaced by something else when displayed. the IMG element is replaced
with the image itself, INPUT,TEXTAREA,SELECT are replaced with UI elements
for the form widgets, OBJECT is replaced with whatever external piece
of multimedia (god I hate that term) you specify.
To take the example of IMG, this has an intrinsic dimension (defined just
below replaced element on the link above) in that the image is made up of
a fixed number of pixels, so the width/height are part of the image itself.
Although it's inline, the intrinsic width is then honoured in the display
(but again setting any width in the CSS is still ignored)
Hope this makes some kind of sense...as I'm starting to confuse myself here ;)
Patrick
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
[WSG] setting width for lis when inline
I'm attempting to build a horizontal menu that from an unordered list. My plan is to
provide the list as text in the html, then use an image-replacement scheme (ala
http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/) to swap out the text with
images. It looks to me like image-replacement depends on me being able to set the
width of the containing element, in my case, an a
I want the CSS to work without being altered, whether i include all of the li menu
items or not, so I don't know how wide the overall ul will be when the page is
actually created.
Is it possible to set width on an inline element? Can I get the same effect from some
sort of absolute positioning (when i don't know the widths of elements)?
for instance,
ul
lishort/li
lithis is a longer item/li
liand some other/li
/ul
ul {
display: inline;
}
li {
display: inline;
width: 200px;
height: 50px;
background-color: #eee;
}
in this example, i'd like to see that as 3 200px squares in a horizontal line...
any help appreciated...
scott reston
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
[WSG] HELP REQUEST: netscape float:absolute problem
I'm experincing a problem that manifests only in Netscape (regardless of platform). It looks like float:absolute is relative to the viewport, rather than the containing parent div block. I've highlighted the offending blocks in blue: http://www.capstrat.com/development/cs2004/template.html css and html are in the same doc. has anyone run up against this? any thoughts on a workaround? (note - i'm not touching the nav yet, so it's just a placeholder...) scott reston ps - what does everyone think about prepending the subject help request messages with something like HELP REQUEST so that folks that aren't inclined to help would be able to skip without opening the email? just a thought... * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] HELP REQUEST: netscape float:absolute problem
oops... i meant position:relative. sorry for the mis-type. the div in question is indeed contained within a position:relative div. the problematic div is the lower of the two boxes on the page. s:r -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Patrick Lauke Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 10:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] HELP REQUEST: netscape float:absolute problem Haven't really waded through your css, so pardon me if it's an obvious one: have you set the parent to position:relative or absolute to force the float to use it as a point of reference? And your question is confusing, as there is no such beast as float:absolute http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#float-position (but I didn't spot that in your code, so I'm assuming it's just your way of describing the problem...) As for using HELP REQUEST...90% of messages on this list are help requests...so I don't think it would be that useful, personally. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk -Original Message- From: Scott Reston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 July 2004 14:33 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] HELP REQUEST: netscape float:absolute problem I'm experincing a problem that manifests only in Netscape (regardless of platform). It looks like float:absolute is relative to the viewport, rather than the containing parent div block. I've highlighted the offending blocks in blue: http://www.capstrat.com/development/cs2004/template.html css and html are in the same doc. has anyone run up against this? any thoughts on a workaround? (note - i'm not touching the nav yet, so it's just a placeholder...) scott reston ps - what does everyone think about prepending the subject help request messages with something like HELP REQUEST so that folks that aren't inclined to help would be able to skip without opening the email? just a thought... * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] reproducing valign=bottom
After combing the WSG archives, my Eric M on CSS books and google-at-large, I'm
stumped. Is there a reliable way to reproduce within a div what valign=bottom does for
table cells?
text-align: bottom adjusts an element inline with respect to the items adjacent to
it...
i've tried:
div id=div
pthis text should bottom-align./p
/div
#div {
background-color: #CC;
height: 50px;
width: 600;
padding-top: auto;
padding-bottom: 0px;
}
also tried:
#div p {
vertical-align: bottom;
}
Thanks
Scott Reston
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
RE: [WSG] Making Flash Codes validate
Jaime - there's been a lot of discussion about this issue. I'm currently using a method referred to as the 'Flash Satay' method. There are severalother methods (sorry - can't locate URLs just not).All have their ups and downs. ALA discussed satay here: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ htmldog discusses the issues a bit here: http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/45.php s:r -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jaime WSent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:51 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] Making Flash Codes validate Hello everyone I am facing some validation issues (XHTML 1.0 Transitional) with the following flash object codes: OBJECT classid="" codebase="" WIDTH=126 HEIGHT=272 PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="scripts/flash/scs_news.swf" PARAM NAME=menu VALUE=false PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high PARAM NAME=wmode VALUE=opaque PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#5D5329 EMBED src="" menu=false quality=high wmode=opaque bgcolor=#5D5329 WIDTH=126 HEIGHT=272 TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"/EMBED /OBJECT Its the 1st time I am adding some flash content so am unsure of whats right or wrong. The demo page can be found here http://designs.sodesires.com/scs/ Any pointers will be great. Thanks. Best Wishes, Jaime ...
RE: [WSG] Making Flash Codes validate
I quite liked method used on http://www.brightcreative.com/ It uses conditional comment, but I see no harm in this. hmmm... conditional comments rears it's head. while CC might initially seem attractive, it irks me to use a proprietary kludge to implement an open standard. thoughts, all? Scott Reston www.capstrat.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Browsers Emulator
Not quite what youy asked for, but I've found Browser Cam to be pretty useful: http://www.browsercam.com Depending on the size of your organization, the (13-month) annual contract that allows for up to 10 sub-users is really a good deal at $400. Scott Reston www.capstrat.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jad Madi Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Browsers Emulator Greetings Guys is there any Web browsers emulators? I think it would be nice if we could collect enough information to build an Online/offline web browsers emulator So instead of having to install 4 browsers and test on different OS's developers will need only to use this emulater to see how their website will look like on X or Y browser. Thank you * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
