RE: [WSG] iOS Safaro issue (?): Fixed and Absolute position
As a user, I'd prefer the native support to work. -- Tatham -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Saturday, 13 August 2011 9:30 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] iOS Safaro issue (?): Fixed and Absolute position Hi Tatham, Thank you!! Feel utterly silly I never discover the feature in 7 by 8 iPad screen and 2 by 3 screen from iPod Touch So I did some exploring, notice in mobile site that mimics App like interface, it doesn't work, take the new twitter mobile site for example, and the iScroll that Caleb mentioned (thanks Caleb!) also disable the go to top. So I guess respecting native support is better yes? tee On Aug 11, 2011, at 8:21 PM, Tatham Oddie wrote: Hi Tee, (or is there magic tap for go to top shortcut?) Just tap at the top of the screen - ie, on the time display. Almost any iOS list / screen will scroll back to the top. -- Tatham *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] iOS Safaro issue (?): Fixed and Absolute position
Hi Tee, (or is there magic tap for go to top shortcut?) Just tap at the top of the screen - ie, on the time display. Almost any iOS list / screen will scroll back to the top. -- Tatham *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Need a fresh eye - can anyone see what's wrong please?
Mike,
This line is invalid:
background-image: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
You're defining both the color *and* the url in the image property.
Either change it to:
background-image: url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
background-color: #33;
or:
background: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
This is invalid across all browsers, it's just that IE8 is the only one that
seems to actually care.
--
Tatham Oddie
au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 280 9140, skype: tathamoddie
If you're printing this email, you're doing it wrong. This is a computer,
not a typewriter.
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Kear
Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2010 3:50 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Need a fresh eye - can anyone see what's wrong please?
I have a draft layout for a client that is fine in all respects except that
in IE8, the background image in the footer is missing.
Here's the page concerned:
http://afpwebworks.com/strikingdistance/index.cfm
And the footer div rule is as follows for IE (I have a IE-only style sheet)
:
#footer {
color: #d9d9d9;
background-image: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
background-repeat: repeat-x;
background-position: top;
min-height: 96px;
}
Both the HTML and the CSS validate ok.
So does any one see what I have wrong for IE?
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting
from AUD$15/month
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Need a fresh eye - can anyone see what's wrong please?
Mike,
This line is invalid:
background-image: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
You're defining both the color *and* the url in the image property.
Either change it to:
background-image: url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
background-color: #33;
or:
background: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
This is invalid across all browsers, it's just that IE8 is the only one that
seems to actually care.
--
Tatham Oddie
au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 280 9140, skype: tathamoddie
If you're printing this email, you're doing it wrong. This is a computer,
not a typewriter.
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Kear
Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2010 3:50 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Need a fresh eye - can anyone see what's wrong please?
I have a draft layout for a client that is fine in all respects except that
in IE8, the background image in the footer is missing.
Here's the page concerned:
http://afpwebworks.com/strikingdistance/index.cfm
And the footer div rule is as follows for IE (I have a IE-only style sheet)
:
#footer {
color: #d9d9d9;
background-image: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
background-repeat: repeat-x;
background-position: top;
min-height: 96px;
}
Both the HTML and the CSS validate ok.
So does any one see what I have wrong for IE?
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting
from AUD$15/month
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
[WSG] RE: Using a dot . in a class name
Hi Jens,
It would cause a conflict in CSS because of multiple class selectors:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/selector.html#class-html
For example:
div class=class1 class2This has two classes/div
can be targeted with:
div.class1.class2 { color: red; }
Using a dot in the class name itself would be an ambiguous selector. Does
div.rating-L4.5 mean the div with class rating-L4.5 or the div with
class rating-L4 and class 5?
As such, while it is valid (as per Sam's email that just came through) I
really wouldn't recommend it. Stick to lowercase letters, numbers and dashes
in your class names I reckon.
--
Tatham Oddie
au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 280 9140, skype: tathamoddie
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff
Sent: Friday, 12 March 2010 11:12 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Using a dot . in a class name
Hi all,
I've noticed that YouTube uses a dot for its star rating:
button class=[...] ratingL ratingL-4.5
It seems to work in browsers, but I'd like to know if this character is
valid and if it might have future implications if used that way.
Thanks,
Jens
The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files
is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use,
dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or
any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No
part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written
consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error
please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and
delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness
of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet
communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal
responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files.
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Assistance with flash example sites
Hi Elizabeth, Once I give the Flash block on that site focus by clicking it, tabbing works fine. I couldn't find an alternative way of giving it focus. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Spiegel Sent: Monday, 1 February 2010 5:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Assistance with flash example sites Hi Russ http://www.monotone.com.au/ as far as I can see, no tab access at all. Elizabeth Spiegel Web editing 0409 986 158 GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001 www.spiegelweb.com.au -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Russ Weakley Sent: Monday, 1 February 2010 2:52 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Assistance with flash example sites Hi people, A colleague has just asked me for some examples of Flash sites: 1. examples of flash sites which are not keyboard accessible (and/or poor tab ordering) 2. examples of flash sites which ARE keyboard accessible 3. examples of flash sites which work well with screen readers (He is aware of the Harry Potter Flash site, but is after other, possibly more recent examples) Please no comments about the merits or lack of merits of Flash. This is for some research he is conduction. :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Styling IE8 web slices
What does a proprietary technique have to do with web standards? Marketing name: IE8 Web Slices Technology: hSlice -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Chris F.A. Johnson Sent: Monday, 18 January 2010 9:22 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Styling IE8 web slices On Mon, 18 Jan 2010, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: Hi all, I find that when implementing a web slice its background displays a sprite we use. All efforts so far to style the background to plain white failed (even with inline styles as recommended by MS [1]). Has anyone successfully styled web slices that do not have a separate HTML source? What does a proprietary technique have to do with web standards? Does it even work with anything other than IE8? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc848871%28VS.85%29.aspx -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Is it bug of IE 7 ??
It's not a bug - it's just how IE decides to render it. It's totally up to the browser as so how it renders controls, and the rounded corners are consistent with other parts of Windows. As soon as you apply a CSS based border, you're just overriding this behaviour with your own. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jayachandran Kandasamy Sent: Tuesday, 12 January 2010 9:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Is it bug of IE 7 ?? Hi Folks, Why does the fielset tag create rounded corner by default in the IE 7 browser, I dont have IE 6 with me and it is working fine with IE 8 FF When we apply any border through CSS explicitly, then it works as normal. Please revert with some valuable explanation. Thanks, JC *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Is it bug of IE 7 ??
Because Microsoft only decided to do it on fieldset / and not on other tags. It is no more complex than that. It is not a bug. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jayachandran Kandasamy Sent: Tuesday, 12 January 2010 11:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Is it bug of IE 7 ?? Hi Oddie, Your answer was confusing rather convincing :) :) why it is only for FIELDSET tags happening for IE 7 only can you please gimme some examples with scenarios ??? Thanks, JC On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Tatham Oddie tat...@oddie.com.au wrote: It's not a bug - it's just how IE decides to render it. It's totally up to the browser as so how it renders controls, and the rounded corners are consistent with other parts of Windows. As soon as you apply a CSS based border, you're just overriding this behaviour with your own. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jayachandran Kandasamy Sent: Tuesday, 12 January 2010 9:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Is it bug of IE 7 ?? Hi Folks, Why does the fielset tag create rounded corner by default in the IE 7 browser, I dont have IE 6 with me and it is working fine with IE 8 FF When we apply any border through CSS explicitly, then it works as normal. Please revert with some valuable explanation. Thanks, JC *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] google chrome frame
I've spent the last 12 months working on the one of the largest sites in Australia. Over this time we have updated our browser support matrix twice, and will probably update it again soon. For us, IE6 usage is starting to hit a rapid decline, falling at about 1 percentage point a week. The last 3 weeks have been 8.75%, 7.60% and now 6.25%. Considering Chrome is currently unsupported but at 4.57% (and growing), I expect our next update will be to drop IE6 support in favour of adding Chrome support. That being said, the whole site is based on progressive enhancement so it already works in Chrome and we even have a small but consistent set of users browsing on their PS3s. Nevertheless, the decision of which browsers you support (and to what degree you support them) needs to be something that you evaluate and decide yourself using your own market metrics. Anybody who tells you what you should and should not support is most likely an idiot and probably not a very good business person. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: tixi.com.au Ticketing without the dramas -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Monday, 4 January 2010 11:10 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] google chrome frame In our large-ish corporate environment we're stuck with IE6 as our default probably for another year :( While we know that people have installed newer browsersIE7 is authorised, but not the default--we still can't stop supporting IE6. One of the UK high street banks who has tens of thousands of users recently advised me that they will be retaining IE6 as the default browser until 2014 due to the huge amount of work required to fix the large number of bespoke applications they use. Staff can ask for special dispensation to get IE7 installed but if you've ever tried to get a corporate IT department to do anything you'll understand that very few people will bother asking. I think that techies forget the concerns that ordinary people have about technology. Older users in particular are often reluctant to install or change anything because they don't know what they can trust and they are scared something will break. Unlike us, they don't have the knowledge or facilities to fix anything that goes wrong. I suspect that the kind of websites that ordinary people use will still be seeing significant IE6 traffic (probably in excess of 10%) for a couple more years. The stats for techie sites will be very different, so a decision on whether to support IE6 will depend on the demographics of the visitors. FWIW, one of my team was in Bangalore over Christmas and had to use an Internet café. The machines were running Windows 98! So let's not forget that some parts of the world cannot afford to upgrade as fast as we can. Steve Green *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessibility and HTML Emails
Yes, I love the accessible nature of a long string of non-descript asterisks instead of a simple horizontal rule element. Thanks, Tatham Oddie blog: http://tath.am/ tath.am au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 current project: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Felix Miata Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:28 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility and HTML Emails On 2009/10/28 17:37 (GMT-0400) kris wright composed: email clients vary wildly in their HTML rendering capabilities, and on occasion actually modify your HTML code makes things even more confusing. Email is supposed to be text communication. Web pages are web pages. If you want your email recipients to reliably see web pages nearly as you intend for them to look, have them open them in their web browsers instead of their email clients. Make the email 100% plain text only, and provide in the email a URL to the HTML (and CSS) formatted version on your web host. Most HTML email that arrives here is redirected to the bit bucket, since HTML in email is a highly favored spammer malware delivery method. Whatever HTML email doesn't reach the bit bucket is seen as (big enough to read) plain text anyway, courtesy of my email app, which has been directed to show all messages only as plain text. -- A patriot without religion . . . is as great a paradox, as an honest man without the fear of God. . . . 2nd U.S. President, John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ http://fm.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: mailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessibility and HTML Emails
Campaign Monitor, the company behind the ESP have more great resources on their own site as well: http://www.campaignmonitor.com/resources/ I highly recommend all of their content because I know there's a huge amount of effort that goes into all the associated research and cross-client testing. Thanks, Tatham Oddie blog: http://tath.am/ tath.am au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 current project: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of S.R. Emerson Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 9:06 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility and HTML Emails You can have a look at The Email Standards Project http://www.email-standards.org/ for information. Also, if you want to build a set of guidelines that will work in the future, you might want to read these two: Microsoft to ignore web standards in Outlook 2010 - enough is enough http://www.email-standards.org/blog/entry/microsoft-to-ignore-web-standards / http://www.email-standards.org/blog/entry/microsoft-to-ignore-web-standards/ Microsoft responds to our call for standards support http://www.email-standards.org/blog/entry/microsoft-respond-to-our-call-for -standards-support/ http://www.email-standards.org/blog/entry/microsoft-respond-to-our-call-for- standards-support/ S. Emerson Accrete Web Solutions http://www.accretewebsolutions.ca http://www.accretewebsolutions.ca On Twitter: http://twitter.com/accrete http://twitter.com/accrete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Test in Outlook 2007
Paul, Office 2007 uses the Word rendering engine which is quite a different beast from any browser, and even quite different to Outlook 2003 (which used the IE engine for rendering and Word for composing). You may find other tools like Campaign Monitor which run an instance and deliver the result, but I'd be very wary about trusting any arbitrarily created emulations. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 206 331 5568, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:07 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Test in Outlook 2007 Hi all, Just wondering, has anyone ever figured out a way of testing Outlook 2007 when you don't have it installed? Wondering if there is some kind of online software that emulates it perhaps? Campaign Monitor offers testing, but it costs a fiver each time you want to check. Would appreciate any help. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Test in Outlook 2007
You can also just download the Office trial and run it in a VM ... Won't cost you a cent and you get instant feedback. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 206 331 5568, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: Tatham Oddie [mailto:tat...@oddie.com.au] Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:57 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Test in Outlook 2007 Paul, Office 2007 uses the Word rendering engine which is quite a different beast from any browser, and even quite different to Outlook 2003 (which used the IE engine for rendering and Word for composing). You may find other tools like Campaign Monitor which run an instance and deliver the result, but I'd be very wary about trusting any arbitrarily created emulations. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 206 331 5568, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: http://tixi.com.au/ tixi.com.au - Ticketing without the dramas From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:07 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Test in Outlook 2007 Hi all, Just wondering, has anyone ever figured out a way of testing Outlook 2007 when you don't have it installed? Wondering if there is some kind of online software that emulates it perhaps? Campaign Monitor offers testing, but it costs a fiver each time you want to check. Would appreciate any help. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode
Would you mind sending me the link so I can take a look and diagnose why it is not rendering properly without compatibility view? Tatham Oddie http://tath.am -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Eyemax Studios Sent: Tuesday, 7 April 2009 3:37 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode Personally I think this is just another Microsoft attempt at trying to enforce what it believes the Standards should be. I too, spent several minutes trying to fix problems in ie8, when my wife noticed the main business's site not displaying properly, then she noticed the compatibility button next to the address bar in ie8 and it all worked fine. Tatham Oddie wrote: Tee, IE8 is shown as a Windows Update. If you're in Uninstall or Change Programs, make sure you have Show Updates ticked at the top of the window. Tatham Oddie http://tath.am -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Saturday, 28 March 2009 4:02 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode On Mar 26, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Nick Hodge wrote: A heads up, I was using Classic View for my Vista, in IE8 with standard mode the sites all had a few paddings/margins issue in a number of pages where absolute position is declared, and on few areas where there is darken background color with lighter 1px horizontal line, the line turns to solid white. Soon as I switched to Vista View, all these problems disappeared. Is the URL for this so I can escalate to IE8 team? Nick Hodge Hi Nick, I switched back to Classic View thinking to make the screenshots, but all the problems I saw before I switched to Vista View are gone. Not sure if it was some residues from IE7 I am absolute those problems are real, not my imaginations as I actually spent some 10 minutes trying to fix one page by adding a It IE8 Conditional comment, when it didn't work as it should as I know my CSS code, I started looking for other possible cause, however switching to Vista View was quite accidental because IE8 looks exactly like IE7 in the classic view and I couldn't find the Compatibility Mode on the toolbar. I would have uninstalled IE8 to run another test to see if I can see those problem again, but I can't find how to uninstall IE8. In the Control Panel Uninstall or Change Program, I can't see IE8. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode
Tee, IE8 is shown as a Windows Update. If you're in Uninstall or Change Programs, make sure you have Show Updates ticked at the top of the window. Tatham Oddie http://tath.am -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Saturday, 28 March 2009 4:02 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode On Mar 26, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Nick Hodge wrote: A heads up, I was using Classic View for my Vista, in IE8 with standard mode the sites all had a few paddings/margins issue in a number of pages where absolute position is declared, and on few areas where there is darken background color with lighter 1px horizontal line, the line turns to solid white. Soon as I switched to Vista View, all these problems disappeared. Is the URL for this so I can escalate to IE8 team? Nick Hodge Hi Nick, I switched back to Classic View thinking to make the screenshots, but all the problems I saw before I switched to Vista View are gone. Not sure if it was some residues from IE7 I am absolute those problems are real, not my imaginations as I actually spent some 10 minutes trying to fix one page by adding a It IE8 Conditional comment, when it didn't work as it should as I know my CSS code, I started looking for other possible cause, however switching to Vista View was quite accidental because IE8 looks exactly like IE7 in the classic view and I couldn't find the Compatibility Mode on the toolbar. I would have uninstalled IE8 to run another test to see if I can see those problem again, but I can't find how to uninstall IE8. In the Control Panel Uninstall or Change Program, I can't see IE8. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] JavaScript as External File vs. Internal Code and linking to images
Brett, CSS is defining the image links, so the paths are relative to the CSS file itself. JavaScript is a bit different. It is basically just setting properties on the HTML elements and this is no different to setting those properties yourself. As such, any image references are relative to the HTML page and not the JS file. Does that help? (Disclaimer: I know this isn't the 100% perfect explanation of DHTML but it serves the purpose of answering this question. If you're a JS nut, please don't pounce.) Thanks, Tatham Oddie callto:+61414275989 call:+61414275989, callto:+61280113982 call:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie?call skype:tathamoddie, msnim:chat?contact=tat...@oddie.com.au msn:tat...@oddie.com.au, http://tatham.oddie.com.au/ tatham.oddie.com.au From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Brett Patterson Sent: Wednesday, 7 January 2009 12:08 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] JavaScript as External File vs. Internal Code and linking to images Recently, I experimented with changing check boxes with JavaScript. If the user clicked on the words next to the check box, then the box would be checked, once checked if the user clicked again, then the box would be unchecked. I wound up having to apply the same code to the check box itself in order to get it to work. In addition, I added code that would change the background image of the page to either a solid color, if checked, or back to the original image, if unchecked. It did not work. So after changing it some more and still getting no results (I think I even asked here), I did some research and found another way to link images directly in JavaScript. I should make note that all the code was in an external file at the time. The following is the structure of the site: -container (the name of the containing folder for all files) || --index.html (home page where the code will be used) --scripts (the scripts folder, contains all the scripts) | ---scripts.js (the scripts file itself) ^^ --styles (stylesheets folder located directly within the container folder) || ---styles.css (contains style declarations) ^^ --images (located directly within the container folder) | ---linkedimage.png (the image to be changed in page background) I hope the structure above makes sense. Anyway, while linking the image in the scripts.js file, I found it never switched back, yet the code never showed any problems. When I found the other way to link images directly in JavaScript, I changed the image link code to what would amount to being directly in the HTML file itself: The first is the original way I linked it the second is the new way. * (../images/linkedimage.png); * from above, changed to * (images/linkedimage.png); After the change above, the code worked. I went back to reading about the JavaScript standard, I thought that JavaScript was read like an external CSS file was read, where you would have to use the (../) part to link to the image if it was in a different folder one level above the current folder. (as the first line of code above is.) Is that not how JavaScript works? When it comes to linked images? -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] labels as input wrappers + h6 in place of legend
Johan – what you are describing is the correct usage in that scenario. Thanks, Tatham Oddie callto:+61414275989 call:+61414275989, callto:+61280113982 call:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie?call skype:tathamoddie, msnim:[EMAIL PROTECTED] msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED], http://tatham.oddie.com.au/ tatham.oddie.com.au From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Johan Douma Sent: Thursday, 16 October 2008 11:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] labels as input wrappers + h6 in place of legend I've always used label arount input fields labeltext: input type=text //label without the for= attribute. I've never had problems with it, and I don't think I've ever seen any recommendation against it. Johan Douma [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008/10/16 David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jason Grant wrote: Ok you got both of these quite wrong for following reasons: In the first instance you shouldn't use b or br / at all. In the second instance you should not wrap input into label as the label should quite clearly be used for denoting a label of an input field and not the input field itself. Not so: When [the for attribute is] absent, the label being defined is associated with the element's contents. LABEL First Name INPUT type=text name=firstname /LABEL -- http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.9.1 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict
Just this week Damian Edwards released a set of templates for ASP.NET which make it XHTML 1.1 compliant. You can download them for free from here: http://www.codeplex.com/VSXHTML11Templates/ They install a new project type in Visual Studio, that when used gives you an XHTML1.1 compliant site to start with. Thanks, Tatham Oddie call:+61414275989, call:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie, msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tatham.oddie.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass Sent: Wednesday, 8 October 2008 2:34 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict Those all have errors (and are HTML, not XHTML). The errors are minor, but there are a number of them. Robin Gorry wrote: http://www.mucu4u.org.nz/Home_61.aspx http://www.oneeast.co.nz/ http://www.colorfastsigns.co.nz/Home_34.aspx Robin Gorry Senior Web Developer Xplore Net Solutions Xplore.net Website of the Week: Weleda (Australia) - www.weleda.com.au Weleda has a range of anthroposophic medicine - the simple yet powerful way to utilise nature's medicines to stimulate the body to 'heal itself'. Until recently their website did not accurately reflect their brand and they had no easy way to profile their product range to their Australian consumers. The new Weleda website is powered by the Xsite content manager, Xforms, Xshop, Xmembers and Xtend. Combined, this powerful toolset enables Weleda staff to add/edit/delete pages, text and imagery throughout their site, create online forms and surveys, provide an online product catalogue and issue logins to restricted access areas on their website. f: 00 64 (0)6 834 24 86 e : [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.xplore.net Take control of your website - ask me today about Xsite-tomorrows Content Management System CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Milner Sent: 08 October 2008 15:23 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict Hi, I was having a *chat* with some .NET developer colleagues and they challenged me to find a .NET site that achieves XHTML 1.0 strict compliance. Hoping to prove to them that it can be done. Does anybody know of some .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict (or even transitional)? Thanks, Anthony *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net http://www.numberoverflow.com http://www.htmlblox.com Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Incorporating Terms and Cons in signup page
I would recommend a div element with a fixed height and overflow:auto.
Use of a textarea would not be semantically correct because it is not user
input. The only reason that leads to its use is that is gives you a scroll
bar for free, however this can be achieved with relative ease as mentioned
before. The submission problem is more of a side-effect than a root problem.
div.TermsAndConditions
{
height: 8em;
overflow: auto;
}
div class=TermsAndConditions
pYour text here./p
pAnd here .../p
/div
If required, you could also have a checkbox where they acknowledge their
acceptance of the terms. This would be implemented as with any other form
field because it semantically is user input.
Thanks,
Tatham Oddie
call:+61414275989, call:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie,
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tatham.oddie.com.au
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jason Pruim
Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2008 11:46 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Incorporating Terms and Cons in signup page
On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:15 AM, John Unsworth wrote:
Hi WSG,
I'm wondering about the best method to incorporate in a signup form a
Terms and Conditions agreement, which being so long will be bought to
the page externally. Or if it's thought best, maybe not!
On a previous occasion I went forward using the object tag. The
advantage to my mind is that, my document (that may change in future)
is separate to the form and for those who don't have a browser capable
of using the object tag, can see alternative text to link to the
separately hosted TC page.
But it's been put to me at work, there might be a way to house the
document in a div, give the div a fixed size and make it scrollable.
Alternatively I could use a textarea element, although I'm given to
understand it would need to be outside the form so as not include it
in the 'Signup' event when the submit button is clicked. However to
satisfy the designer, who follows that the convention is that the form
is visually seen before the last submit button, I'd use CSS to
position it - but that doesn't sound very semantic to me?
Putting it on another page, that you would link to, read, then return
to the form to agree to has been rejected for the sanctity of the
concept of a single page signup document.
I hope I've been clear, and I guess I'm interested in anything similar
to this in best practice, accessibility and standards.
Cheers for just being there folks,
John Unsworth
Hi John,
I haven't ever needed to write this before, but I have seen a decent
sized scroll box at the bottom of a form with a check box to confirm
they have read it and agree to it.
All the ones I have seen are above the final submit button, but I'm
not sure if they are truly inside the form or not.
Depending on how you are submitting the form, and how big of a file
the TC page is, you COULD submit it and just ignore it... But
depending on the load of the server it might take a little bit longer
to process the form.
Just something to think about :)
--
Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
11287 James St
Holland, MI 49424
www.raoset.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
RE: [WSG] dl question
DL = definition LIST Just like you have multiple bullet points in a UL or OL, you can have multiple entries in a DL. It's a perfectly valid use. Thanks, Tatham Oddie call:+61414275989, call:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie, msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tatham.oddie.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 4 August 2008 1:20 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] dl question Hi all, I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one or many dd's. But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's in the one dl Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate practicebut does it make sense?!?! Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt?? __ Christian Fagan Fagan Design fagandesign.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Width defaulting to 100%?
Kara, Block elements (like div) always expand to the full width by default. By the sounds of it you're after an inline element, so either: A) use a span instead or B) set display:inline; on the DIV You might find it helpful to read up on the difference between block and inline elements. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kara O'Halloran - Eduka Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2005 2:39 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Width defaulting to 100%? Hi guys, I have 2 divs inside a container. 1: a relatively positioned div to contain and position an image 2: another div, absolute position, to contain a submenu. Image on left, menu on right. For some reason, both divs are expanding horizontally to take up all the available space, even when the content inside them is only 20 pixels wide. I'm not specifying any widths because the content is dynamic so I have no way of knowing what the width will be. The only width I have specified is the container width of 60em. Why are they doing this? Shouldn't they only expand horizontally to make room for whatever is contained in them - in this case only a few words? Any help would be appreciated. :) K (ps this happens in both ff and ie.) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Page templates submitted for review (discard previous mail)
Pat, The New York design shows up like this in a screen reader: Page has twelve links Kraainem dash NewYork dash Mozilla Firefox Summary colon Layout table Table with one column and one row Table end List of six items bullet This page link Home alt plus 1 bullet This page link News bullet This page link Contact alt plus 9 bullet This page link Sitemap alt plus s bullet This page link Skip nav alt plus 2 bullet This page link Help alt plus 0 List end List of six items bullet This page link New York bullet This page link Paris bullet This page link Milan bullet This page link Brussels bullet This page link London bullet This page link Hong Kong List end Theres still some unnecessary stuff that clutters the output. Just because it meets all the validators doesnt mean its correct on the accessiblity front. Also, I just dont see why you need a table here. Nice idea though and I like some of the designs. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pat Boens Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 3:04 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Page templates submitted for review (discard previous mail) Dears, In an attempt to bring a little contribution to the world of web standards we have developed a dozen templates that we would like to submit for your review. These templates are all shared under the terms of the Attribution license of Creative Commons. We would like to obtain your comments in the following areas: 1) XHTML 1.1: quality of code (+ possible improvements) 2) CSS: quality of code (+ possible improvements) 3) WCAG: we tend to create Triple-A templates, how good are we doing? are our templates/pages really accessible? 4) Elegance of design: how good are we doing? Here are the templates: http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/Liquid/Samples/tennis.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/corporate/corporate2.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/motoconcho/motoconcho.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/Liquid/Liquid2.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/Quietude/Quietude.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/senator/senator.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/spagyrum/spagyrum.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/Typografia/Typografia.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/Veritas/Veritas.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/NewYork/NewYork.html http://www.fastwrite.com/dvlonly/web/paradeigma/Furio/Furio.html Thank you for your input. Pat Boens
RE: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility
Stuart, The out of box ASP.NET controls in v1.1 are really quite shocking. The out of box ASP.NET controls in v2 are XHTML compliant. (However this doesn't mean they are semantic.) However, the webforms concept (which uses all these drag n' drop controls) isn't very good when it comes to the separation of concerns approach that you're after. You probably want to look at the MonoRail project - http://www.castleproject.org/ which is basically a .NET version of Ruby on Rails. This is the framework used behind my sites like http://www.viavirtualearth.com/ which are semantic, compliant XHTML sites. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Sherwood Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 10:13 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility I have been lucky enough to work with a very experienced java programmer on the last few sites I have designed. I do all the front end, he does the database, application, CMS, security and e-commerce development. The experience has been very pleasurable because of the degree of separation we have achieved between the front and back ends that allows me to make the sites fully standards compatible. Any dymanic content spits out pure content with the bare minimum of markup necessary. I'm wondering how .net compares as I haven't had the chance yet to build a site with it? Regards, Stuart Sherwood www.re-entity.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility
Not true you just need to know how to use it properly instead of Microsoft bashing. If you do want to use the built in controls and still get compliant markup, I can provide you with a really simple article on how to do so. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of csslist Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: re: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility Have you ever seen anything that microsoft makes that makes anything near compliant code? didnt think so If you are going to use .net and want complient code then you will spend a lot of time going back and tweaking the code to get it to comply. From: Stuart Sherwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility I have been lucky enough to work with a very experienced java programmer on the last few sites I have designed. I do all the front end, he does the database, application, CMS, security and e-commerce development. The experience has been very pleasurable because of the degree of separation we have achieved between the front and back ends that allows me to make the sites fully standards compatible. Any dymanic content spits out pure content with the bare minimum of markup necessary. I'm wondering how .net compares as I haven't had the chance yet to build a site with it? Regards, Stuart Sherwood www.re-entity.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] teaching students developing to web standards
Christian, I agree with that. The word transitional implies that its about moving to newer standards. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Monday, 12 September 2005 8:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] teaching students developing to web standards That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Transitional pages are full of deprecated HTML 4.0 tags that are not allowed in XHTML 1.1 or 2.0. Strict pages can usually be validated as XHTML 1.1 without any changes. Just read the XHTML specifications for differences between XHTML 1.0 and 1.1. It's about 3 lines. Strict means the page meets XHTML 1.0 specs completely. Transitional means the page has deprecated tags that are being ignored. It's a very simple difference. Anyone else concur? On 9/11/05, dwain alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Montoya wrote: Actually, I forgot about this link too. This is a class at Cornell University that teaches XHTML 1.0 Strict. Here's the link: http://cs130.cs.cornell.edu as was brought to my attention not too long ago, if your pages are strict, then the future life of the pages is shortened with any changes to the xhtml recommendations.the transitional doctype seems to be a better choice because it will last longer than the strict doctype.i think someone on this list brought this to my attention. dwain -- dwain alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alforddesigngroup.com The Savior replied; There is no such thing as sin;... 'The Gospel of Mary of Magdala' ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Q: cross browser submit button image replacement
Rex, Safari won't let you style at all. Take a look at what I did on www.whatcanido.com.au for the search fields top-left. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rex Chung Sent: Monday, 15 August 2005 9:16 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Q: cross browser submit button image replacement Hi all, Anyone know what is the best practise for image replacement with rollover states for submit buttons. I tried adding onmouseover class change javascript with: 1. background image for input type=submit / but - doesnt work for safari, value attribute shows up 2. text-indent=-1000em for button type=submit submit/button but onmouseover doesnt seem to work for IE. I haven't found a good solution for cross browser capability with rollover states. Thanks! Rex. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue
Hi there, I just launched http://www.viavirtualearth.com/ which uses a three column layout + header. Yes - there are like two CSS hacks to make it work - but seriously, get over it... If there's a tradeoff between tables or two hacks I'll take the two hacks. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Webmaster Sent: Friday, 12 August 2005 12:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue a div-based header/3-column/footer layout that is accessible. http://www.google.com/search?q=3+column+accessible+css+layout yields some good results... Sadly not. The search for a valid CSS/(X)HTML, hack-free, 3-column CSS layout continues. I'm still accepting offers for a solution. Even one that requires a combination of techniques which incorporate a baseline footer and other goodies. For those who are interested in using a real world example, please feel free to replicate my organisation's soon-to-launch site without tables. Now there's a Web stabdards challenge for you. http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/ You can see I didn't try terribly hard. And, yes, I'm aware that TD widths are deprecated. But what's a boy to do, eh? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue
Brian, I'll ignore the 'get over it' This was directed aimlessly at a lot of people, not personal. ;-) My only real issue with hacks is that they are not future proof. They main requirement for our hacks was to get IE into line. As the website has a largely Microsoft target audience, IE7 is already an issue for us. While we test in IE6 and IE7, we haven't yet had any differences. This may change in Beta 2, but for now it is all fine. Realistically, if you're desigining a site for a few hundred bucks and leaving it for 2 years, future proofing is a bit of an issue, but for most sites it's not that hard to keep ahead of the browser curve. Browsers are only release about every six months to a year at best. Well done. Thanks alot. I see many sites not unlike Virtual Earth hitting the Net very soon. :) I don't understand what you mean here? Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Webmaster Sent: Friday, 12 August 2005 12:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue If there's a tradeoff between tables or two hacks I'll take the two hacks. Hi Tatham, Looks good. I'll ignore the 'get over it' and move to accept your suggestion that a couple of hacks are acceptable. My only real issue with hacks is that they are not future proof. I see many sites not unlike Virtual Earth hitting the Net very soon. :) Well done. RIP Brian Grimmer ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check: VVE
All, Just a quick ping to say that we've finished version 0.5 of the site which should include 95% of the feedback I received on the list. http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/vve/ Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) Sent: Tuesday, 2 August 2005 10:58 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: Tom Harvey Subject: [WSG] Site Check: VVE Guys n gals, In light of the Broadleaf discussion/brawl the other week, I have a new proposal for you. In this case, bandwidth was critical due to the existing sites traffic base and formed a major design goal. http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/vve/ There are still some oddities in IE6, however I have posted to CSS-D about this. What I was mostly interested in some feedback on was the mark-up, etc I was just wondering if anybody had any pointers about how to improve it. Thanks in advance! And Ill try not to start a punchup this time. ;-) Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com
[WSG] Editor Controls
Hi all, Im looking for some advice on editor controls (like JS controls) for a CMS type thing Im building. Basically, it needs to be a rich edit control thats simple for users to use. However: Must produce XHTML Must only produce p, ul, ol, li, a, img, code, dl, dt, dd, strong, em, del Must only allow the user to format by bold = strong italics = em strike = del or a selection of classnames that I specify in the configuration Must allow embedding of images Could allow upload of images Any ideas? Most of the controls out there seems to generate crappy HTML4 then hack it across to something thats mostly XHTML. If I cant find one, Ill probably start writing one then make it open source down the track, however I dont really have that much time to wait for it. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com
RE: [WSG] Site Check: VVE
David, Tidy Online will eliminate all the white space on your file. The page is dynamically generated, hence all the weird tabbing that steps in an out. I'll get a server side filter working shortly that does that kind of stuff. Why are you using XHTML 1.1? Why not? Am I missing something newer or cooler? Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check: VVE
David, One of the main advantages of XHTML for us is that we can use XML storage for the CMS, and just plug this straight into the page. The whole thing is XML. :-) Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2005 4:31 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: VVE Tom Livingston wrote: On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:36:39 -0400, David Laakso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, this page http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/vve/Dashboard/Default.ashx is not breaking in any of my browsers. Regards, David Laakso So, XHTML 1.1 is bad because? Hi Tom, Tatham has a good -- readable, usable, accessible, content driven-- page going. You might say it is 'cool.' I do not know that XHTML 1.1 is good or bad. I am asking an academic question: what doctype is best for Tatham's 'cool' page? Regards, David Laakso -- David Laakso http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Mugur, This article only discusses reducing the HTML size which if you take a look at the site is already rather anorexic. Loading an image once, caching it for potentially weeks, and not loading anything other than small HTML pages as they browse the rest of the site seems like the smartest way its going to happen. Basically, unless theres some fancy new way to encode the image, I dont see any point is destroying an otherwise good design that our VCD team has generated for the sake of saving a few seconds once-off. Yes I think 120kb is big (not huge though). If there is a way to make it smaller, feel free to suggest and Ill implement. Otherwise, the speed of an extreme minority of our user base shouldnt restrict how we work. Also, Im not assuming as you suggest we have bandwidth stats from the current broadleaf.com.au site to suggest that narrowband isnt a significant concern. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mugur Padurean Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:48 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf Sorry, but quoting Microsoft page as good design example is not a good ideea. No web page that big IS a good ideea. Maybe this will help you: http://www.stopdesign.com/articles/throwing_tables/ The purpose of the article it's slightly different but it's a very good motivator for small size web pages. Also asuming that your clients will not care or will not be affected by a web page size does not sound to me like a good business atitute. I have no intention to annoy you or to start a rant. It's just just that i'm on ADSL connection ... half the planet away. And big pages load slowly, almost as dial-up (or so it feels). On 7/25/05, Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Edward, Thanks for your input, however we didn't really consider this a big issue as: most of the target market will be on office internet connections and ADSL is basically a minimum for such people in Australia the image is only downloaded once, and will be reused in the content pages, just with different column layouts because the image is only downloaded once, only the first page hit will be slow and first page hit occurs because users are after something on your site - they are prepared to wait a bit longer to get it; keeping tight page sizes is more critical when moving around a site in which case we're only about 4k total because the image is loaded through CSS, all of the content will be positioned and usable anyway before the background clogs the connection just that a few seconds later the thing will start to look good as well many larger sites are starting to acknowledge all of these points as well: microsoft.com home page is pushing 140k sxc.hu home page is pushing 107k yahoo.com.au home page is pushing 167k ninemsn.com home page is pushing 136k news.com.au home page is pushing 383k Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Edward Clarke Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:08 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the background image is of more concern to most visitors. Edward Clarke ECommerce and Software Consultant TN38 Consulting http://blog.tn38.net Creative Media Centre 17-19 Robertson Street Hastings East Sussex TN34 1HL United Kingdom From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst Sent: 24 July 2005 17:52 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768. There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).
RE: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users
There's a good article here: http://jfly.iam.u-tokyo.ac.jp/color/ which goes through all the variations quite well. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Edward, The full stylesheet is only served for media=screen. For media=print and media=handheld they currently just get the raw page, which due to the mark-up works quite well anyway. Is this what you mean at all? Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Clarke Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 5:08 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf The problem is youre designing for a technology [DSL], not accessibility. May I suggest a handheld stylesheet to alleviate some of the problem with a large media screen footprint? Edward Clarke ECommerce and Software Consultant TN38 Consulting http://blog.tn38.net Creative Media Centre 17-19 Robertson Street Hastings East Sussex TN34 1HL United Kingdom
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Mugur, I hope you are not upset with me. Not at all. J I just fail to understand people who are concerned about pages under 150k. Until about 2 years ago, 50k was my limit. However since then, Ive been happy to add about 50k per year to that limit in line with the uptake of broadband, at least in Australia. Across numerous websites, Ive never actually had a complaint from a user / client, only from lists such as this where people impose limits without thinking about how networks are evolving. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mugur Padurean Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 5:25 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf Your absoutely right when you say our creativy shoud not be restricted by any means. Still, the comment i made was targeted at half of your image that looks to me that coud go safey without affecting your overal design. I'm talking about the part behind the content. No offence but at this point it looks more like a wallpaper to me (in size at least). However this is your choice and in no way am I trying to be critical on that issue, afterall, design it's a subtle thing and i may not read your message right this time. I just expressed a not very well expained opinion, nothing more. I hope you are not upset with me. On 7/25/05, Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mugur, This article only discusses reducing the HTML size which if you take a look at the site is already rather anorexic. Loading an image once, caching it for potentially weeks, and not loading anything other than small HTML pages as they browse the rest of the site seems like the smartest way it's going to happen. Basically, unless there's some fancy new way to encode the image, I don't see any point is destroying an otherwise good design that our VCD team has generated for the sake of saving a few seconds once-off. Yes I think 120kb is big (not huge though). If there is a way to make it smaller, feel free to suggest and I'll implement. Otherwise, the speed of an extreme minority of our user base shouldn't restrict how we work. Also, I'm not 'assuming' as you suggest we have bandwidth stats from the current broadleaf.com.au site to suggest that narrowband isn't a significant concern. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mugur Padurean Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:48 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf Sorry, but quoting Microsoft page as good design example is not a good ideea. No web page that big IS a good ideea. Maybe this will help you: http://www.stopdesign.com/articles/throwing_tables/ The purpose of the article it's slightly different but it's a very good motivator for small size web pages. Also asuming that your clients will not care or will not be affected by a web page size does not sound to me like a good business atitute. I have no intention to annoy you or to start a rant. It's just just that i'm on ADSL connection ... half the planet away. And big pages load slowly, almost as dial-up (or so it feels). On 7/25/05, Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Edward, Thanks for your input, however we didn't really consider this a big issue as: most of the target market will be on office internet connections and ADSL is basically a minimum for such people in Australia the image is only downloaded once, and will be reused in the content pages, just with different column layouts because the image is only downloaded once, only the first page hit will be slow and first page hit occurs because users are after something on your site - they are prepared to wait a bit longer to get it; keeping tight page sizes is more critical when moving around a site in which case we're only about 4k total because the image is loaded through CSS, all of the content will be positioned and usable anyway before the background clogs the connection just that a few seconds later the thing will start to look good as well many larger sites are starting to acknowledge all of these points as well: microsoft.com home page is pushing 140k sxc.hu home page is pushing 107k yahoo.com.au home page is pushing 167k ninemsn.com home page is pushing 136k news.com.au home page is pushing 383k Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Edward Clarke Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:08 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf I suspect the 120Kb footprint
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Matt, Ive fixed the background, and will reupload shortly. Unfortunately all of our workstations are widescreen laptops, so while we run higher res, were still only 900px high. Thanks for noticing. Regarding the CSS errors they are all IE hacks, and besides having to add extra stylesheet documents I dont see a way to make the validator happy. Im really not interested in the whole conditional comments thing because they declarations get split up and things just get confusing. If you know of a similar hack to _property:value; that achieves the same outcome and validates, please let me know and Ill change it. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 2:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768. There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">). Matthew Vanderhorst Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote: Hi all, Ive just placed the first page of a new site on our test-drive server: http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/ Which is a redo of: http://www.broadleaf.com.au/ There is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to look: http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg I have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to work fine. If a few of you could take a look in other browsers thatd be great. Also, any design / coding suggestions would be greatly appreciated. J Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Rowan, Thanks for your feedback. I'd remove all the in each list item and replace this with an image on the item bullet points. Done. Also adding a label and/or legend on the search field (and hiding it with CSS if desired) would increase usability. Done. Personally I'd also 'no-repeat' the bg image as it doesn't look as good on pages with a lot of content. Done. I just noticed that there is something disabling the scroll-bars. Which is not good when the browser window is smaller than the content or the font-size is increased. This makes the site hard to use. In progress. Rowan Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Edward, Thanks for your input, however we didnt really consider this a big issue as: most of the target market will be on office internet connections and ADSL is basically a minimum for such people in Australia the image is only downloaded once, and will be reused in the content pages, just with different column layouts because the image is only downloaded once, only the first page hit will be slow and first page hit occurs because users are after something on your site - they are prepared to wait a bit longer to get it; keeping tight page sizes is more critical when moving around a site in which case were only about 4k total because the image is loaded through CSS, all of the content will be positioned and usable anyway before the background clogs the connection just that a few seconds later the thing will start to look good as well many larger sites are starting to acknowledge all of these points as well: microsoft.com home page is pushing 140k sxc.hu home page is pushing 107k yahoo.com.au home page is pushing 167k ninemsn.com home page is pushing 136k news.com.au home page is pushing 383k Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Clarke Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:08 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the background image is of more concern to most visitors. Edward Clarke ECommerce and Software Consultant TN38 Consulting http://blog.tn38.net Creative Media Centre 17-19 Robertson Street Hastings East Sussex TN34 1HL United Kingdom From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst Sent: 24 July 2005 17:52 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768. There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).
RE: [WSG] paragraph indent
Bert,
I wanted to get my paragraphs to indent on a site so I tried the most
intuitive thing:
p:first-line{padding:1em}
How about
p { text-indent: 1em }
This will indent the whole paragraph, while Alan is only trying to indent
the first line.
Thanks,
Tatham Oddie
Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea
www.fueladvance.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Flash and valid XHTML
Erwin, What's wrong with satay? Why do you need something else? Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erwin Heiser Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2005 3:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Flash and valid XHTML Hi all, So far I¹ve been able to avoid using Flash but a site I¹m working on uses a few flash elements (like a slideshow). I¹ve been googling around but besides the alistapart article on Flash-Satay I¹ve not been able to find another method of embedding flash in a page so that it still validates. Does anyone with more flash experience have any suggestions? (I'd like the pages to validate to XHTML Strict or Transitional) Thanks in advance, Erwin Heiser ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] 'strong' as class name
Tee,
You've got the wrong selector. Use:
strong
{
font: 1em bold #369 Arial, San Serif
text-transform: uppercase;
text-decoration: none;
}
Or consult the SelectORacle:
http://penguin.theopalgroup.com/cgi-bin/css3explainer/selectoracle.py
Thanks,
Tatham Oddie
Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea
www.fueladvance.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Sunday, 26 June 2005 5:12 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] 'strong' as class name
I named a class as
.strong {
font: 1em bold #369 Arial, San Serif
text-transform: uppercase;
text-decoration: none;}
But it does work except the 'bold'. I am curious if the strong deserved
for strongxxx/strong only. The reason I want to name that class as
'strong' is because it suits the purpose for the elements I want it be bold,
but I want it to have different typeface and font size and color.
Thanks!
tee
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] Vertical Positioning
Guys / girls, Im having some problems with the vertical positioning on www.whatcanido.com.au. Basically the content area is restricted to a maximum height of 600px, and after that I want it be vertically centred on the page. Im aware of numerous ways to do this (implemented it on www.e-oddie.com) however I cant actually get any of them to work reliably. Youll need to look at the page on a higher resolution (1280x1024 or up) to see what I mean. To see what I want to achieve, try adding a margin-top rule to the html selector. (IE is completely stuffed in this regard if anybody has an idea of how I might be able to start fixing this let me know) Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com
[WSG] Preventing scrolling
Hi everyone,
I currently have a problem something like this:
div
{
width: 200px;
height: 100%;
overflow: hidden;
}
div
Lots and lots of content which we never expect to fit in the
box
and we just want to be cut off. However, we only want them
to be
able to see what would fit in the box. So, we need to stop
them
from being able to click in the box and use their scroll
wheel.
Another way they could see all the content is by selecting
what
they can see and dragging down.
/div
What's the best way from stopping this from scrolling?
- javascript?
- a nested div which contains the content, positioned with fixed positioning
so even if they scroll the outer div nothing actually changes visually
(would this work? I haven't tested it)
- something else?
Thanks,
Tatham Oddie
Technical Director, Fuel Advance
www.fueladvance.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Preventing scrolling
Philippe,
This is within a container which has top:200px;bottom:150px; (or so)...
Thanks,
Tatham Oddie
Technical Director, Fuel Advance
www.fueladvance.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Philippe Wittenbergh
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2005 4:45 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Preventing scrolling
On 21 Jun 2005, at 3:04 pm, Tatham Oddie wrote:
div
{
width: 200px;
height: 100%;
overflow: hidden;
}
height:100% - 100% of what ?
if the parent container has no height declared, the 100% will default
to auto, and all the content will be visible.
what you probably want is setting some height in em/px/km/
then your overflow:hidden will have some effect.
If I'm wrong, please provide a test case (url).
Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] CDATA
Roberto, The comment structure you are talking about (/**/) is a CSS comment, and has not effect on the XML document. In your example the validator will see the CDATA as containing: */ @import CSS/mainStyles.css; /* The only characters in the style block not enclosed with the CDATA are the slashes which are safe to have there. So, the validator is happy. When the XML has been parsed by the browser, the contents of the CDATA is expanded, so that the value of the style node in the XML parse tree is now: /**/ @import CSS/mainStyles.css; /**/ Once the CSS parser kicks in, the first and last lines will be simply considered as empty comments. So, the CSS parser is happy. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Technical Director, Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roberto Gorjão Sent: Monday, 20 June 2005 10:19 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CDATA P.S.: Im sorry I was referring myself to style and script declarations like this one: style type=text/css /*![CDATA[*/ @import CSS/mainStyles.css; /*]]*/ /style --- Roberto Gorjão wrote: Hello, I know that CDATA was discussed just some days ago, but I'm still in doubt... Is there the need to use it with the transitional XHTML DTD? Does anybody know if it really functions when surrounded by comment tags? Because the W3C recommendation does not mention them. Thank you. Roberto ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Form layout issues
Guys n gals, Im having some quirky layout issues with http://survey.whatcanido.com.au/ specifically starting on page two of the survey, Questions2.fuel. The issues are pretty clearly visible. Any assistance with generally improving the pages would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Technical Director, Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com
[WSG] Signature markup
Guys n' gals, What would be the best way to mark-up something like: All the best, Tatham Oddie They aren't really separate paragraphs so this is wrong: pAll the best,/p pTatham Oddie/p This just looks hideous: p All the best,br / Tatham Oddie /p This seems like misuse (but looks visually perfect with no extra CSS): dl dtAll the best,/dt ddTatham Oddie/dd /dl Any ideas? opinions? Thanks, Tatham Oddie Technical Director, Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Hardcore CSS problems - http://testdrive.whatcanido.com.au/
Guys n gals, I have a fairly hardcore CSS implementation in the works and its almost there. However, Im having a few minor bugs. Guess where? Did I hear you say IE6Win? *applause* Basically: The cap on the bottom block is positioned incorrectly. Any text in the bottom block, or bottom right nav cant be selected it seems there is something sitting on top of it. The logo top-left cant be clicked it seems there is something sitting on top of it. The buttons top-right cant be clicked it seems there is something sitting on top of them. The URL is: http://testdrive.whatcanido.com.au/ The best rendering currently occurs in FF1.0.4. Optimisation hasnt been started yet so dont complain too loudly about the load times. On that not however, if anyone has some good ideas on how to cut some bloat out, please let me know. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Technical Director, Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com
RE: [WSG] Signature markup
Ok... Thanks for your help. I was just checking there wasn't some funky über-geeky new way of doing it... If I'm smacking all my neighbours and clients over the head about semantic mark-up I want to make sure I'm doing it properly. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Technical Director, Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, 30 May 2005 9:18 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Signature markup I'd have to agree. It's not a list, and shouldn't be marked up as one. It's a single paragraph with a line break. Looks pretty straight-forward if you ask me. ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Design http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter on 5/30/2005 11:10 AM Joshua Street said the following: On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 20:06 +1000, Tatham Oddie wrote: This just looks hideous: p All the best,br / Tatham Oddie /p Really? That's a shame, because I have a feeling that's correct. They're not in separate paragraphs, but they are on separate lines, and are therefore separated by a line break (yeah, I know, br / is theoretically semantically null... shrug!) Looks okay to me... Kind Regards, Joshua Street base10solutions Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 Multimedia Development Agency E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Scrolling layout problem
Guys n girls, Having some small problems with a Ski website Im working on and some assistance would be great. The URL is: http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Perisher/Default.aspx The problems are: Were missing the nice sexy rounded corners top-left and top-right The horizontal scroll bar shouldnt be there The text should go over the mountains bottom-left It is totally broken in IE6 So far Ive only tested in FF1.0.2 and IE6/Win. IE6/Win is tragic. Once I get the FF version working Ill hack it down for other browsers where required. Its getting quite frustrating. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Technical Director, Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com
RE: [WSG] Scrolling layout problem
Bert, That fixed the scrollbar issues... thanks. I'm not too worried about wheel scrolling. I use Firefox 24/7 - so it's not that I don't care about the browser. Just that I'd prefer to get the bug fixed (or fix it myself). Tat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Sunday, 3 April 2005 10:47 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Scrolling layout problem G'day The URL is: http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Perisher/Default.aspx ... * The horizontal scroll bar shouldn't be there Can't help with the other issues right now, but use overflow:auto instead of overflow:scroll on your div#content One thing to bear in mind is that overflowing divs can't be scrolled with the mouse wheel in Firefox/Mozilla. Quite annoying - it's a bug that's been with us for a long time (and doesn't look like going away any time soon). You could play with margins on body, and a background on html and forget the div, so people can still scroll with the mousewheel in Gecko based browsers Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Scrolling layout problem
All, Ok... we're getting somewhere on our end - so status update: I've uploaded a new version to the test-drive server (http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Perisher/Default.aspx). The remaining issues are: - mountains in bottom left corner won't sit under in any browser - scrolling isn't working in IE6 I haven't started testing any other browsers yet, so some quick checks in that department would be nice too please. Thanks! Tat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tatham Oddie Sent: Sunday, 3 April 2005 11:07 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Scrolling layout problem Bert, That fixed the scrollbar issues... thanks. I'm not too worried about wheel scrolling. I use Firefox 24/7 - so it's not that I don't care about the browser. Just that I'd prefer to get the bug fixed (or fix it myself). Tat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Sunday, 3 April 2005 10:47 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Scrolling layout problem G'day The URL is: http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Perisher/Default.aspx ... * The horizontal scroll bar shouldn't be there Can't help with the other issues right now, but use overflow:auto instead of overflow:scroll on your div#content One thing to bear in mind is that overflowing divs can't be scrolled with the mouse wheel in Firefox/Mozilla. Quite annoying - it's a bug that's been with us for a long time (and doesn't look like going away any time soon). You could play with margins on body, and a background on html and forget the div, so people can still scroll with the mousewheel in Gecko based browsers Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Opening links in new window with XHTML
All, Im trying to have a link open in a new window (like Ive done a million times) however the validator doesnt like this. If we dont have the target attribute how are we supposed to do it now? Or arent we supposed to do it and leave it up to the use agent? This page is not Valid XHTML 1.1! Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser. 1. Line 121, column 76: there is no attribute target .../ title=Australian Alpine Club target=_blank Tat
RE: [WSG] Opening links in new window with XHTML
I agree with using transitional to port existing sites But for totally new sites Im either in or Im out no point going halfway. I think Ill just leave it and they can use the middle-click if they want Thanks all, Tat From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of designer Sent: Monday, 4 April 2005 12:41 AM To: webstandards group Subject: Re: [WSG] Opening links in new window with XHTML Hi Tatham, Of course, if you make it XHTML1.0 transitional, it'll be fine! !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd (Do you need the strict1.1 inthis case?) Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk - Original Message - From: Tatham Oddie To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: [WSG] Opening links in new window with XHTML All, Im trying to have a link open in a new window (like Ive done a million times) however the validator doesnt like this. If we dont have the target attribute how are we supposed to do it now? Or arent we supposed to do it and leave it up to the use agent? This page is not Valid XHTML 1.1! Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser. 1. Line 121, column 76: there is no attribute target .../ title=Australian Alpine Club target=_blank Tat
[WSG] Site Review: testdrive.fueladvance.com
All, Without out taking up too much of your time, itd be great if you could take a look at http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/ and let me know anything that leaps in your face as bad. Please be brutal. Im hoping there wont be too much of a beating, but if there is Id prefer to do it now before we dump in all the content and move to production. (PS. Notice the XHTML1.1 validating ASP.NET? J) Thanks in advance! Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com
RE: [WSG] Site Review: testdrive.fueladvance.com
Ok... tad embarrassed right now. Not that this is my staging location - so I upload to it every few minutes. It *was* working... I emailed you... I broke it... you looked. Now works again - I think. Do you mind checking the XHTML compliance again for me? Thanks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Connolley Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2005 11:09 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review: testdrive.fueladvance.com On 22 Mar 2005, at 23:34, Tatham Oddie wrote: All, Without out taking up too much of your time, it'd be great if you could take a look at http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/ and let me know anything that leaps in your face as bad. Please be brutal. (PS. Notice the XHTML1.1 validating ASP.NET? J) Non validating. You have a HTML in your supposedly validating XML document. You should check the w3c media type recommendations as you are sending your document as text/html and it shouldn't be. Perhaps you should try HTML 4.01 Strict. -- Paul Connolley - http://shunuk.co.uk/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Review: testdrive.fueladvance.com
David, Thanks for taking the time to look. I had totally forgotten to test font-zooming (too excited to launch it) so I'll look into this. As for the alt text - there's no image! If you take a look at the HTML it is just a series of H1 and H2 elements. The image replacement is done totally using CSS. What were the HTML errors you found? Thanks again! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2005 11:29 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review: testdrive.fueladvance.com On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:34:38 +1100, Tatham Oddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without out taking up too much of your time, it'd be great if you could take a look at http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/ [...] Nice, clean, and simple. Setting font-size 0.9em on the body is doing a number in IE on zoom. To avoid that bug use %, preferably 100% or 100.01%. Those of us who can't remember our 40th birthday party will be grateful. There seems to be no alt text for the title, and the navigation breaks a bit too early on zoom. There's a need to correct some HTML errors. Tatham Oddie Best, David -- de gustibus non est disputandum http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Review: testdrive.fueladvance.com
Thanks Peter Just to make it clear that P tag isnt always empty, its where messages like Invalid Credentials appear. I should make the whole element dynamic rather than just the content. It certainly isnt there for any presentation reason Ill look into what happens when I make the whole thing dynamic. Tat From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter J. Farrell Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2005 1:45 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review: testdrive.fueladvance.com Tatham Oddie wrote: I've learned that artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- All, Without out taking up too much of your time, itd be great if you could take a look at http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/ and let me know anything that leaps in your face as bad. Please be brutal. Im hoping there wont be too much of a beating, but if there is Id prefer to do it now before we dump in all the content and move to production. (PS. Notice the XHTML1.1 validating ASP.NET? J) Thanks in advance! Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com My local version of Tidy is complaining about the empty p tag on line 77 on the main page - it's just a warning however. div class=contentBlock h2Extranet Login/h2 fieldset labelExtranet Login/label p /p div REFERENCE: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#edef-P W3C: We discourage authors from using empty P elements. User agents should ignore empty P elements. However when I strip it - your content boxes no long line up in FF. -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishingblog :: http://blog.maestropublishing.comemail :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone :: 651-204-0513
[WSG] Problems with floats in IE
Hey boys/girls, Having a small problem with a page (of course the problem is only in IE6) basically the floated fieldsets are causing the top left corner of the white box to fall out of position. Otherwise everything seems fine. Would a few people who are good at IE hacks / floats mind looking at: http://members.stansw.asn.au/testdrive/ Thanks in advance! As always, any other comments are appreciated too. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance
RE: [WSG] centering a page
Have a look at how I managed to get it to work on http://e-oddie.com/. This is the only decent way I've found. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Trick Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 1:43 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] centering a page I'm trying to get a page to center vertically and horizontally, it works well on IE/win and gecko, but when I checked it on mac, both safari and IE/win mess it up. Any suggestions or links to resources on how to center things in the viewport? Here's a link to what I've been working with: http://jellybean.uni.cc/creamcheese/become_a_client.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: Re[2]: [WSG] Problems with floats in IE
Stuart,
Thanks for your idea Im going to try and get
Chris to work first because I think its a cleaner solution. If
necessary Ill fall back to yours though.
Chris,
Using clear: left certainly fixes it, but then my forms
stack horizontally across the page. Somehow I need a clear: right or clear:
both rule in there, however both of these break the page.
Any suggestions?
I dont even understand how the floats are affecting
the left-position of the parent box
Thanks!
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Dawes
Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2005 1:30
AM
To: Stuart Homfray
Subject: Re[2]: [WSG] Problems
with floats in IE
HelloStuart,
Hello Tatham,
use clear: left;
/* Sidebar Styles */
fieldset.sidebarBlock,
div.sidebarBlock
{
display: block;
width: 300px;
float: right;
clear: left;
---
margin: 10px 0 0
15px;
}
Wednesday,March9,2005,1:21:18AM,youwrote:
Aquickanswerwouldbetocreateanewleft-handsideimagewithan
extra25px(?)ofthegreygradientbackgroundontheleft,andthenset
thehorizontalbackgroundpositionto-25px(?)ondecentbrowsers,eg.
Firefox,etal.
background-position:-25px0;
IE6
background-position:00;
Maybeusethe'underscorehack'(_background-position:00;)tofeedthe
declarationtoIE6(invalidateyourCSS)oruseMSconditionalcomments.
Itmaynotbepretty,theremaywellbeabetterway,butitworks(at
leastonFirefoxandIE6!)
cheers,
Stuart
TathamOddiewrote:
Heyboys/girls,
Havingasmallproblemwithapage(ofcoursetheproblemisonlyin
IE6)basicallythefloatedfieldsetsarecausingthetopleftcornerof
thewhiteboxtofalloutofposition.Otherwiseeverythingseemsfine.
WouldafewpeoplewhoaregoodatIEhacks/floatsmindlookingat:
http://members.stansw.asn.au/testdrive/
Thanksinadvance!Asalways,anyothercommentsareappreciatedtoo.
Thanks,
TathamOddie
FuelAdvance
--
Bestregards,
Chrismailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] Site Review: whatcanido.com.au
Guys n Gals, Itd be greatly appreciated if you could do a site review of www.whatcanido.com.au. Currently there is only a holding page but Im interested in what people would have to say about the way Ive achieved the text wrapping. The screen reader output in Fangs seems perfect so Im happy from the accessibility angle. Ive tested in IE6.0PC and FF1.0PC. Any other browser tests would be appreciated as well. Thanks! Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance +61 414 275 989 callto://tathamoddie
RE: [WSG] Site Review: whatcanido.com.au
Levi, You read my mind! Yeah - that was the basic reason. Thanks a lot for the assistance. Tat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Levi Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 10:54 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review: whatcanido.com.au Checked in IE 6.x SP2 and FF1.x (pc), loooks good in both. I like the way you did the text wrapping. Why did you use 9 divs instead of 5 though? you only have 4 lines of text and that empty line. Was it just so that if the text size was made much smaller it'll still wrap nicely? On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:40:23 +1100, Tatham Oddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys n' Gals, It'd be greatly appreciated if you could do a site review of www.whatcanido.com.au. Currently there is only a holding page - but I'm interested in what people would have to say about the way I've achieved the text wrapping. The screen reader output in Fangs seems perfect so I'm happy from the accessibility angle. I've tested in IE6.0PC and FF1.0PC. Any other browser tests would be appreciated as well. Thanks! Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance +61 414 275 989 callto://tathamoddie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Review: whatcanido.com.au
Great. Yet not so great Thanks a lot for your assistance Carmelyne. Tat From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carmelyne Thompson Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 11:33 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review: whatcanido.com.au Looks fine on netscape 7 but this is how it looks like on Opera7.52 http://wapcss.com/whatcan.gif - Carmelyne Thompson Itd be greatly appreciated if you could do a site review of www.whatcanido.com.au. Currently there is only a holding page but Im interested in what people would have to say about the way Ive achieved the text wrapping.
RE: [WSG] Site Review: whatcanido.com.au
Paul, Thanks for the browser help... In some ways I am also objecting to the way I used the spacers, but think it was the most elegant solution that I could find. I checked it using Fangs, and the screen reader output seems perfect. The only other option I could think of was to use divs or something instead - avoiding the 'paragraph' information I am currently attaching to them. Tat -Original Message- From: Paul Novitski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 12:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review: whatcanido.com.au At 03:40 PM 2/17/2005, Tatham Oddie wrote: It'd be greatly appreciated if you could do a site review of http://www.whatcanido.com.au/www.whatcanido.com.au. Currently there is only a holding page - but I'm interested in what people would have to say about the way I've achieved the text wrapping. The screen reader output in Fangs seems perfect so I'm happy from the accessibility angle. I've tested in IE6.0PC and FF1.0PC. Any other browser tests would be appreciated as well. Tatham, I think that's a clever way to wrap text around a graphic. It seems to work fine (with text-resizing) in WinXP in Mozilla 1.7.2, Netscape 7.1, and Opera 7.23. I know some folks (including perhaps myself) will object to your use of the CSS equivalent of spacer gifs, since they have no semantic content at all, but it does work. I wonder if such objections would fall silent if you'd used a column of foreground image slices in staggered widths instead of p tags? Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Site Review: e-oddie.com
Hi all, Im now reasonably confident that the redesign of http://www.e-oddie.com/ is now nearing completion, and would appreciate a review both from a standards approach and a design approach. Things to note: http://www.e-oddie.com/ should be compliant it is part of the redesign http://www.e-oddie.com/sydneylife/ has some XHTML validation errors due to the way ASP.Net writes out its server-side forms. I am writing a reusable server module to fix this, although it isnt easy and will take a while. So, any form related violations please ignore them for now. http://www.e-oddie.com/blog/professional/ (linked to throughout the site as Geeky Stuff) hasnt be redesigned and it generated by a blogging tool. Ill get on to this next, once I have finished the rest. That way I can copy-paste a lot of CSS and keep it consistent. Also, some checks in other browsers would be appreciated. I have yet to get my Virtual PC image running, so I only have IE6 and FF1 on WinXP to test with. Thanks in advance! Tatham Oddie http://www.e-oddie.com/
RE: [WSG] Site Review: e-oddie.com
Jorge, Id LOVE to remove that table (as the HTML comments above it also state) however I never found a way. You may/may not have noticed a separate thread on this list a few days ago where we attempted to do it with a simple div solution, but never got there. I need to somehow vertically and horizontally center the image, then vertically center the text on top of it. If you have a solution Id gladly implement it. Thanks, Tatham Oddie From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jorge Laranjo Sent: Thursday, 30 December 2004 10:03 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review: e-oddie.com Hi there! Nice site! But why do you use this in the HOMEPAGE ? table id=layoutgrid summary= tr td You don't need tables in there! Remove that table and your done ! -- Atentamente, Jorge Laranjo site http://thetaoofwebdesign.tk/ email [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Em 29/dez/2004, às 21:55, Tatham Oddie escreveu: Hi all, Im now reasonably confident that the redesign of http://www.e-oddie.com/ is now nearing completion, and would appreciate a review both from a standards approach and a design approach. Things to note: http://www.e-oddie.com/ should be compliant it is part of the redesign http://www.e-oddie.com/sydneylife/ has some XHTML validation errors due to the way ASP.Net writes out its server-side forms. I am writing a reusable server module to fix this, although it isnt easy and will take a while. So, any form related violations please ignore them for now. http://www.e-oddie.com/blog/professional/ (linked to throughout the site as Geeky Stuff) hasnt be redesigned and it generated by a blogging tool. Ill get on to this next, once I have finished the rest. That way I can copy-paste a lot of CSS and keep it consistent. Also, some checks in other browsers would be appreciated. I have yet to get my Virtual PC image running, so I only have IE6 and FF1 on WinXP to test with. Thanks in advance! Tatham Oddie http://www.e-oddie.com/
RE: [WSG] CSS alignment issues
Bert, Thanks for your help. I managed to get the text centerred vertically within the panel in FF only, however never managed to get the panel in the right place too. Also, even though my subsites arew about to be covered in 'Get Firefox' warnings for IE users, I need to be cross-browser compliant on my portal page. If you could save a copy of the page and have a quick fiddle with the source (the CSS is inline anyway for this page) that would be **extremely** well appreciated. However, please don't feel pressured that this needs to happen. As for the use of LI, H1, and H2 elements - I looked back on it and realised that it probably was a stupid move. I only found out about DL a few weeks ago and am taking sometime to get into the swing of using it. I've now implemented this though and it's a much cleaner solution. As for the background image - it's not finished yet, and I will optimize more. Trust me, I know about dialup - I'm on it. I can't get broadband where I am in the mountains west of Sydney. Thanks, Tatham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Sunday, 26 December 2004 8:25 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS alignment issues G'day If you look at the homepage - http://www.e-oddie.com/ - I'm having problems laying the content out. I'm trying to centre the image on the page both horizontally and vertically. Then, within the panel, I'm trying to vertically centre the text. Unfortunately I'm not achieving either and am getting different results between IE6 and FF1. vertical-align only applies to 'table-cell' elements and in some cases inline elements. Putting vertical-align on a div has no effect (or is not supposed to) You could trick Firefox and Opera 7.5 (and perhaps some Mac/Linux browsers Like Safari, Konqueror etc) by setting the html and body elements to 100% height, giving body a display:table and panelContainer a display of table-cell and vertical-align:middle. Doesn't have vertical centering in MSIE but should still be usable otherwise. I can email you a sample file off-list if you like. Just a couple of other comments if I may: 1. Have you thought about using a definition list instead of an unordered list with (seemingly misused) h1 and h2 elements? 2. I'd compress the background image. Takes a long time to load on dial-up. 183kB for a background image is a ~bit~ much. 30-40k would be better and should be achievable without too much loss of quality. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS alignment issues
Bob, Thanks for your help here... I now finally have the page working how I want. As for making the whole world FF-users, if you visit my site from any other browser soon you will be redireted via this page: http://www.e-oddie.com/sydneylife/GetFirefox.aspx Hopefully that should get some more users switching. Thanks again, Tatham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of designer Sent: Sunday, 26 December 2004 11:32 PM To: webstandards group Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS alignment issues Hi Tatham, - Original Message - From: Tatham Oddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org; 'designer' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] CSS alignment issues Bob, I really didn't want to use a table - otherwise I would have been able to say that there isn't a single table in the whole site. Now I'll just have to talk about the sub-sites... Grr. Anyway, the code was a bit more complex than you posted as I had to center vertically the text and the block. I've updated the verion on http://www.e-oddie.com/ which works in IE, but not FF. I just can't seem to make that work. Must be having a complete blinder today - as I used to do everything with tables. Anyway, I'm telling all my users to get Firefox and I'm a Firefox user so I need to work out this prob. Any ideas? Thanks, Tatham --- After writing to you, I thought I'd better check out what I'd said [ :-) ] so I knocked up this: http://www.marscovista.fsnet.co.uk/gwelanmor/middle/centering.html You can see how I've applied some 'content' with a background and some text, the latter positioned with margins. The CSS is embedded, for simplicity. It works in FF, IE6, IE5.5, Opera . . . Until all the world becomes FF :-), there emare/em times when you just HAVE to use a table, albeit a tiny one . . . HTH a bit more. Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS alignment issues
Gunlaug, Not sure what you mean by: then your name will end up on the wrong list. Besides that, I'm a reasonably active Firefox evangelist, not just a standards evangelist. I'm tossing up on allowing other standards compliant browsers and it will probably end up heading that way with your suggestion. Obviously I won't redirect audio browsers (have a blind mate who uses the site and helps me test accessability). Would you be happy if I do this: Opera: 'Get Firefox' button in page footers Lynx: 'Get Firefox' button in page footers Mozilla:'Get Firefox' button in page footers Firefox:Nothing Safari: 'Get Firefox' button in page footers Other: Forced redirect via GetFirefox.aspx Tatham www.e-oddie.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun Sent: Monday, 27 December 2004 3:25 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS alignment issues Tatham Oddie wrote: ... As for making the whole world FF-users, if you visit my site from any other browser soon you will be redireted via this page: http://www.e-oddie.com/sydneylife/GetFirefox.aspx Hopefully that should get some more users switching. Be careful with that any other browser - redirect thing. It might backfire... Make sure you are a bit smarter than your writing indicates. If standard-compliant browsers gets redirected, then your name will end up on the wrong list. Opera-/ Lynx-/ Mozilla-/ Firefox-/ Safari-user - in that order, with a few more standard-compliant browsers on the sideline. Sincerely Georg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] centering without hassle - was CSS alignment issues
Bob, Ok... you win. Page is now fixed. Thanks for your help on this issue - this one page turned out more complex than most of the entire redesign. Thanks, Tatham www.e-oddie.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of designer Sent: Monday, 27 December 2004 2:10 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] centering without hassle - was CSS alignment issues Hi Tatham (and all) - Original Message - From: Tatham Oddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org; 'designer' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 2:19 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] CSS alignment issues Bob, Thanks for your help here... I now finally have the page working how I want. As for making the whole world FF-users, if you visit my site from any other browser soon you will be redireted via this page: http://www.e-oddie.com/sydneylife/GetFirefox.aspx Hopefully that should get some more users switching. Thanks again, Tatham I'm not trying to be 'clever' here, just helpful - but you don't need a nested table at all. See my revised version of your page at: http://www.marscovista.fsnet.co.uk/gwelanmor/middle/centering.html this is xhtml 1 trans (I haven't tried strict) and it validates. BTW, your background really is huge - I compressed it in photoshop and it's now 39k. This is becoming the Christmas teaser, eh? :-) Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Float problem in IE6
Georg,
Thanks for your help... This got it working first time!
Tatham
-Original Message-
From: Gunlaug Sørtun [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 25 December 2004 4:59 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Float problem in IE6
Tatham Oddie wrote:
Im getting a float problem in IE6 that I dont understand.
The URL is http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/.
The problem is known as margin-doubling in IE/win.
display: inline will fix that in your case.
On top of that you have also made it a bit tight in there, so IE/win
will drop the main column on narrow window.
A small negative back-margin on the float will help.
For an idea of how it should display (the problem is pretty obvious)
take a look in Firefox.
This should make it hold in IE/win, until the window gets really narrow.
Put it at the bottom of your stylesheet.
@media all {
* html div.blockRight {display: inline; margin-left: -3%;}
}
Georg
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] CSS alignment issues
Hey guys, Yet another problem with e-oddie.com although its my first totally CSS site so Im happy this is only the third with few more in sight. If you look at the homepage http://www.e-oddie.com/ - Im having problems laying the content out. Im trying to centre the image on the page both horizontally and vertically. Then, within the panel, Im trying to vertically centre the text. Unfortunately Im not achieving either and am getting different results between IE6 and FF1. Thanks! Tatham Oddie C# Developer / Analyst www.e-oddie.com [personal/blog] www.play47.net [work] www.ssw.com.au [work] +61 414 275 989 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] CSS/Markup Nightmare
Hi all, Im currently having a CSS/markup nightmare Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. The aim is to make my page like the mockup I have http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/skins/Summer/Mockup.jpg. However, Im having a nightmare making the boxes (something I thought would be a simple process). I have a sample page at http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/default.aspx. And the CSS file at http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/skins/Summer.css. Things Id like to sort out are: The CSS isnt any where near working (obviously) The markup Ive used seems like an overkill so Id like to simplify it Thinks to note are: The markup has to be generic enough that I can create different boxes just by changing the CSS (there are 3 sections with 3 different colour schemes to identify them) Id like to aim for at least 4.01 strict or hopefully XHTML/1.1 compliance (preferred) In advance, thanks for any help! Tatham Oddie C# Developer / Analyst www.e-oddie.com [personal/blog] www.play47.net [work] www.ssw.com.au [work] +61 414 275 989 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [WSG] CSS/Markup Nightmare
David, I've managed to mostly get it working now thanks to the ALA article (why didn't I look there first...) I've updated the version at http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/default.aspx. I think the markup could still use some improvement but I'm much happier now. Thanks, Tatham -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David R Sent: Saturday, 25 December 2004 11:59 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS/Markup Nightmare Hi My suggestion to achieve the rounded corners, is to use the tried-and-tested method of using wrappers, but this is hardly ideal. Another option is to define positioned divs to each of the corners Hmmm, I've just realised you could hook existing tags: Say: div class=boxContainer div class=boxHeader h2Box Title goes here/h2 /div div class=boxBody pContent, blah!/p /div /div You could adjust margins and background images to the boxContainer, boxHeader, the h2 element, the boxBody, and paragraph element to achive the effect I suggest you read this ALA article: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/customcorners/ HTH -David R Tatham Oddie wrote: Hi all, I'm currently having a CSS/markup nightmare. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. The aim is to make my page like the mockup I have - http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/skins/Summer/Mockup.jpg. However, I'm having a nightmare making the boxes (something I thought would be a simple process). I have a sample page at http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/default.aspx. And the CSS file at http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/skins/Summer.css. Things I'd like to sort out are: * The CSS isn't any where near working (obviously) * The markup I've used seems like an overkill so I'd like to simplify it Thinks to note are: * The markup has to be generic enough that I can create different boxes just by changing the CSS (there are 3 sections with 3 different colour schemes to identify them) * I'd like to aim for at least 4.01 strict or hopefully XHTML/1.1 compliance (preferred) In advance, thanks for any help! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Float problem in IE6
Hey everyone, Im getting a float problem in IE6 that I dont understand. The URL is http://www.e-oddie.com/e-oddie2/. For an idea of how it should display (the problem is pretty obvious) take a look in Firefox. I havent tested it in any other browsers (dont have them installed) so any help in that department would be greatly appreciated. Any design tips would be greatly appreciated while were at it too (trying to finalise design today). Thanks in advance! Tatham
