Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Michael I agree with your budgetary concerns. To fill this void, many universities are now merging their art departments with their media studies departments to offer advanced programs for graphic artists and web developers so that they can wear both hats [graphic designer-developer programmer]. I was the very first at the University at Buffalo (New York) to be conferred with their post-masters certificate of advanced studies (CAS) in New Media Design. This graduate program is all about conveying information visually on the Internet, media devices, and other venues. It covered the art and function with programming for 21st century. The new media artist is the designer of the next generation and they will be expected to wear several hats. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Hi I am just very new to the group and would like to have a url to see this beautiful site. Could you please send one. Thanks Sandy come and play on the board http://www.artgally.com Come and see the art show http://www.artgally.com/cswart Come and see the poetry show http://www.artgally.com/cswpoetry Come and see the Kid's Art http://theartmania.com Peter Gifford's beautiful work makes me wonder if I should call myself a designer at all.
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Hi I am just very new to the group and would like to have a url to see this beautiful site. Could you please send one. Thanks Sandy come and play on the board http://www.artgally.com Come and see the art show http://www.artgally.com/cswart Come and see the poetry show http://www.artgally.com/cswpoetry Come and see the Kid's Art http://theartmania.com Peter Gifford's beautiful work makes me wonder if I should call myself a designer at all.
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
All I got when I clicked on these URLs was page not available. Kim Buttery, Richmond, VA From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sandra WoodsSent: Monday, March 15, 2004 7:55 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WSG] New CSS site Hi I am just very new to the group and would like to have a url to see this beautiful site. Could you please send one. Thanks Sandycome and play on the boardhttp://www.artgally.com Come and see the art showhttp://www.artgally.com/cswart Come and see the poetry showhttp://www.artgally.com/cswpoetry Come and see the Kid's Arthttp://theartmania.com Peter Gifford's beautiful work makes me wonder if I should call myself a designer at all.
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Jim I think you're referring to my Flash business site, www.universalhead.com, rather than the css one www.cinema4duser.com. This is OT since it's not a css site, but the music doesn't come back on if you nav to another part of the site. Only if you refresh - which is unavoidable since the flash file is reloaded, but it should be unnecessary to refresh the site. As you say the sound is very ambient and can be quickly turned off if required. Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the OT post, off the list now! Peter On 16/03/2004, at 3:05 AM, Jim Davies wrote: Nice work and all that good stuff but there is a major problem with the music on/off. When turned off, it only stays off for THAT page and comes right back on for the next one or on a refresh. That is VERY bad. I personally have a problem with sites that start off with sound, even soft sound such as this. Consider the people viewing the site. Where are they? Is it at home, work, library? What is the effect when sounds suddenly start emanating from the PC? Just my 2 cents. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Michael, Peter Gifford's beautiful work makes me wonder if I should call myself a designer at all. But what he didn't say was what I have long maintained. The fact that everyone (more or less) can pick up a pencil does not mean that everyone can draw beautifully. In the same way, the fact that everyone on this list either can, or is learning to, make web pages using CSS does not make them graphic designers. I know this is an obvious point, but I would recommend that if you want to make beautiful sites you engage the services of a professional graphic designer to produce Photoshop images of what your site could look like. It will take some collaboration, but when your CSS makes the design come to life you will see how graphic design works, not simply to make things look beautiful but to add intelligence and simplicity (if simplicity can be added) to the conveying of information. All the best! -Hugh Todd Im sorry, Peter, but I hate your new site. I LOATHE it. Oh, not because you did a rotten job in my opinion. On the contrary, its so good it reminds me of my own shortcomings in the artistic/design department. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
You are quite right, Hugh. I'm a professional at what I do, and I tell my clients that there's nothing stopping them getting out notepad or Frontpage and doing their own sites. There aren't any secret programming techniques in web sites. But they don't because they're good at running an off-road car parts business or being a professional athlete, and I'm good at developing web code. The exact same argument applies to graphic arts. I own Fireworks and Photoshop, and I can manipulate images well enough to eliminate a background or put it out of focus to make the foreground object stand out, I can colour correct and correct lighting, and I can make buttons, and I can crop pictures to improve composition. But all those things are mechanical. Anyone, given the instructions, can do that. What takes talent, vision and skills that I don't have is taking a white screen and envisioning something beautiful on it. A blank canvas so to speak and producing a wonderful piece of art, that also works as a web page. So you're right. I ought to be working with a graphic artist, and if I did my sites would look far better. But I work mostly with tiny businesses, for whom building even a brochureware site is something of a stretch. The site just wont pay for two people to do the job. And I'm too conscious of a mortgage debt and school fees and the need to eat to allow someone else to take away some of the money. So I have to do it all by myself whether I like it or not. And in the process I'm learning quite a lot about artistic matters, although I'll be the first to acknowledge I'm never going to make it as an artist. One day perhaps. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hugh Todd Sent: Monday, 15 March 2004 11:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] New CSS site Michael, Peter Gifford's beautiful work makes me wonder if I should call myself a designer at all. But what he didn't say was what I have long maintained. The fact that everyone (more or less) can pick up a pencil does not mean that everyone can draw beautifully. In the same way, the fact that everyone on this list either can, or is learning to, make web pages using CSS does not make them graphic designers. I know this is an obvious point, but I would recommend that if you want to make beautiful sites you engage the services of a professional graphic designer to produce Photoshop images of what your site could look like. It will take some collaboration, but when your CSS makes the design come to life you will see how graphic design works, not simply to make things look beautiful but to add intelligence and simplicity (if simplicity can be added) to the conveying of information. All the best! -Hugh Todd Im sorry, Peter, but I hate your new site. I LOATHE it. Oh, not because you did a rotten job in my opinion. On the contrary, its so good it reminds me of my own shortcomings in the artistic/design department. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
As Peter mentioned in an earlier post, For inspiration, look at traditional design as well as other websites I think this is the best advice that could be offered to anyone who doesn't have a design background. With the wonders of css we should be able to reproduce any design we like. Magazines, Press Ads, TV ads, Billboards and even junk mail can be an inspiration in layout and colours. Another thing that is not always treated with the respect it deserves is the content. Headings, subheader, content all have a job to do, ie: attract attention, reinforce and sell. There are many books/sites out there on advertising that works and why it works. Zeldman covers it a bit in Taking your Talent to the Web I think. We should all take into account rules (for want of a better word) that have been established for a long long time in the print media and adapt them to the web... most sites are still selling something whether its a service or a product and the content should be considered as important as the layout... ...so now we need professional copywriters as well... oh well thats just the way the mop flops!!! Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] New CSS site You are quite right, Hugh. I'm a professional at what I do, and I tell my clients that there's nothing stopping them getting out notepad or Frontpage and doing their own sites. There aren't any secret programming techniques in web sites. But they don't because they're good at running an off-road car parts business or being a professional athlete, and I'm good at developing web code. The exact same argument applies to graphic arts. I own Fireworks and Photoshop, and I can manipulate images well enough to eliminate a background or put it out of focus to make the foreground object stand out, I can colour correct and correct lighting, and I can make buttons, and I can crop pictures to improve composition. But all those things are mechanical. Anyone, given the instructions, can do that. What takes talent, vision and skills that I don't have is taking a white screen and envisioning something beautiful on it. A blank canvas so to speak and producing a wonderful piece of art, that also works as a web page. So you're right. I ought to be working with a graphic artist, and if I did my sites would look far better. But I work mostly with tiny businesses, for whom building even a brochureware site is something of a stretch. The site just wont pay for two people to do the job. And I'm too conscious of a mortgage debt and school fees and the need to eat to allow someone else to take away some of the money. So I have to do it all by myself whether I like it or not. And in the process I'm learning quite a lot about artistic matters, although I'll be the first to acknowledge I'm never going to make it as an artist. One day perhaps. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hugh Todd Sent: Monday, 15 March 2004 11:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] New CSS site Michael, Peter Gifford's beautiful work makes me wonder if I should call myself a designer at all. But what he didn't say was what I have long maintained. The fact that everyone (more or less) can pick up a pencil does not mean that everyone can draw beautifully. In the same way, the fact that everyone on this list either can, or is learning to, make web pages using CSS does not make them graphic designers. I know this is an obvious point, but I would recommend that if you want to make beautiful sites you engage the services of a professional graphic designer to produce Photoshop images of what your site could look like. It will take some collaboration, but when your CSS makes the design come to life you will see how graphic design works, not simply to make things look beautiful but to add intelligence and simplicity (if simplicity can be added) to the conveying of information. All the best! -Hugh Todd I'm sorry, Peter, but I hate your new site. I LOATHE it. Oh, not because you did a rotten job in my opinion. On the contrary, it's so good it reminds me of my own shortcomings in the artistic/design department. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Hi Peter...very clean looking site...sweet indeed. Only crit I found was in your div class=featurebox the img's (FEATUREARTCLE) (GO) move approx: 3px to the right when hovering over the latter - in Opera 7.11 Build 2887. Apart from that totally mini-glitch, the site looks brill. Well done. Regards, JG --- Universal Head [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com _ Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Title: Message looks awesome, fonts used in titles are really cool, love the effect. the only thing I could see was and I don't know if I'm right with this. in http://www.cinema4duser.com/dltex_handmade.html the item boxes, you have the headings of these as h1s I'm not sure if you should have more than one h1 a page? is that correct? I thought I remember something about that, although I am probably wrong. Tim HillComputer AssociatesGraphic Artisttel: +612 9937 0792fax: +612 9937 0546[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 12 March 2004 11:50 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] New CSS site Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
http://www.cinema4duser.com
Comments and crits
most welcome.
first
impression: looks lush! very slick. easy to scan/understand whats going
on..
some
real quik thoughts that may relate to the css but also some general stuff (take
with a grain of salt and all that ;-)
with
yr standards alert message("NOTE: You are using an outdated
browser"etc) -you could maybe link to a page in the message with
some links to the browser makers sites - otherwise youre basically saying
"download something better - you work it out" ;-)
I'd
expect the big main pics for the feature article, feature artist to link to
those sections aswell as the "go" button. gotta make those graphics work for
themselves :)
i got
the 'fouc' when i first loaded yr site (http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp)you could add a print css to avoid the 'fouc' and also
remove some of the graphics from the printer version...?
the
font sizes in some areas are pretty tiny, and i cant re-size them in IE... you
could maybe include a font size re-sizer thing? even if just for the big areas
of text like articles...?
pete
ottery
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Very nice Peter. Smooth and clean is all good. I used to play around with Cinema 4D on the go ole Amiga. Heh, that brings back some fond memories. ;) Cheers Chris Blown http://hinterlands.com.au On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 11:49, Universal Head wrote: Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter UniversalHead Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Thanks Tim You can have as many h1's as you want - it's just a general class for a level 1 heading. Cheers Peter On 12/03/2004, at 12:14 PM, Hill, Tim wrote: looks awesome, fonts used in titles are really cool, love the effect. the only thing I could see was and I don't know if I'm right with this. in http://www.cinema4duser.com/dltex_handmade.html the item boxes, you have the headings of these as h1>s I'm not sure if you should have more than one h1> a page? is that correct? I thought I remember something about that, although I am probably wrong. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Title: Message http://www.cinema4duser.comComments and crits most welcome.Peter Impressive. Very clean, easy to navigate. Links work, downloads work, images are crisp, text is clear and pleasurably readable. Only thing I wondered about was the extra click I had to do, to get to the Omega Stone article. When I clicked on the link for the article about John Shakespeare, it took only one click to get to it; whereas it took two clicks to get to the Omega Stone one. That might mislead users a bit. Clicking on the link for the featured download took me to a page that contained all available downloads; maybe it would be nice to go directly to the download for that image, then after the download completes, offer a link to other available downloads? Just a suggestion. The key thing is that everything works very well -this might make the user experience smoother. KUDOS! Nice, nice job. Leslie Riggs
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Your site does look very nice... one more note about your standardsy message... My palm browser is the most uptodate (at least until minimo arrives!) but you are prompting me to upgrade?! not a major grumble, but changing the wording might be appreciated also I like it but some accessibility advocates may have issues with the contrast on your links / buttons s Universal Head wrote: Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter *Universal Head* Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Peter Nice one, works well with styles and images turned off as well. The validator is having some issues with link rel=shortcut icon try link rel=icon ... / instead and you'll have a valid site! Also, if you ever move to Strict, the language attribute in your script tag won't be needed - the type=text/javascript will suffice. Cheers James Universal Head wrote: Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter *Universal Head* Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
In response to your extremely helpful feedback, thankyou for it all: standardsy message ... not a major grumble, but changing the wording might be appreciated Regarding the accessability message, any suggestions for changing the wording? Is there a 'satandard' blurb? How come so many people saw this, did they have CSS turned off? Is it a good idea to have a link to browser upgrades in this message? When I clicked on the link for the article about John Shakespeare, it took only one click to get to it; whereas it took two clicks to get to the Omega Stone one. That was a mistake, thanks - fixed. I'd expect the big main pics for the feature article, feature artist to link to those sections aswell as the go button. gotta make those graphics work for themselves Not a bad idea, I might add this. Wow, three options for every link! i got the 'fouc' when i first loaded yr site (http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp) you could add a print css to avoid the 'fouc' and also remove some of the graphics from the printer version...? Haven't added a print stylesheet yet. Thanks, I'll look into this. the font sizes in some areas are pretty tiny, and i cant re-size them in IE Stop using IE!! ;) Seriously, might add this in an update (or change to ems). The validator is having some issues with link rel=shortcut icon try link rel=icon ... /> instead and you'll have a valid site! Thanks, didn't know that one! I used to play around with Cinema 4D on the go ole Amiga. Heh, that brings back some fond memories. ;) Cheers. Try the program again, it's fantastic these days! Thanks all, P x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
This doesn't validate either - does anyone have the correct validating code for inserting a favicon? Peter On 12/03/2004, at 12:50 PM, James Ellis wrote: The validator is having some issues with link rel=shortcut icon trylink rel=icon ... /> instead and you'll have a valid site! x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
link rel="shortcut icon" href=""http://webboy.net/webboy.ico">http://webboy.net/webboy.ico" / From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:36 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] New CSS site This doesn't validate either - does anyone have the correct validating code for inserting a favicon?PeterOn 12/03/2004, at 12:50 PM, James Ellis wrote: The validator is having some issues with link rel="shortcut icon"trylink rel="icon" ... / instead and you'll have a valid site!Universal HeadDesign That Works.7/43 Bridge Rd StanmoreNSW 2048 AustraliaT (+612) 9517 1466F (+612) 9565 4747E [EMAIL PROTECTED]W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
That's interesting. The validator was throwing errors on the shortcut icon attribute ? I've used icon before and it works fine. hm. Cheers James Peter Firminger wrote: link rel=shortcut icon href=http://webboy.net/webboy.ico; / *From:* Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, March 12, 2004 1:36 PM *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Subject:* Re: [WSG] New CSS site This doesn't validate either - does anyone have the correct validating code for inserting a favicon? Peter On 12/03/2004, at 12:50 PM, James Ellis wrote: The validator is having some issues with link rel=shortcut icon trylink rel=icon ... / instead and you'll have a valid site! *Universal Head* Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
You can put the favicon.ico file in the webroot. This works without the need for any markup. However this doesn't work for IE. Works fine other browsers. IE is also picky about the file format. Cheers Chris Blown http://hinterlands.com.au On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 13:35, Universal Head wrote: This doesn't validate either - does anyone have the correct validatingcode for inserting a favicon? Peter On 12/03/2004, at 12:50 PM, James Ellis wrote: The validator is having some issues with link rel=shortcuticon trylink rel=icon ... / instead and you'll have a valid site! UniversalHead Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
If your happy to have the same favicon throughout the site's pages you don't need any code in the head. You just need to place the favicon.ico in the root dir. Ian. This doesn't validate either - does anyone have the correct validating code for inserting a favicon? Peter On 12/03/2004, at 12:50 PM, James Ellis wrote: The validator is having some issues with link rel=shortcut icon trylink rel=icon ... / instead and you'll have a valid site! Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Peter, Great site. Well done. Personally, I'd probably loose the standards message altogether for a couple of reasons: Text only and aural browsers will get this message on every page People may be using text/aural/non-standard browsers for a reason, such as a disability etc, and may not be able to upgrade to a different browser Your pages will have the following description in search egnines: Cinema4D User - NOTE: You are using an outdated browser that is not allowing you to view modern sites such as this one correctly. Update your browser - it's easy to do and you'll have a much better internet experience. Anyway, becasue you've done a great job on the site, it works well in plain text anyway, so again I don't think you need that message there! Good work, Peter Regards, David McDonald Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] New CSS site Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:49:43 +1100 Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Peter, About browser warning messages... About 8 months ago Peter (Firminger - listdad) and I took off all of our browser warnings entirely. The message is designed for older browsers (with significant political reasons at the time it was developed) but it is a pain for other devices that are forced to see this content. Three reasons to remove the message: 1. blind users are forced to read this info at the top of every page. Despise skip menu's some blind users prefer to read into a page to get a handle on the content. If the first thing they read is this message - on every page - they get rather irate (I've seen this is action). 2. browsers without css support (which includes some hand held devices) have to read the message as well - even though it does not apply to them. It may not be appropriate for their particular device to upgrade at all. So, the message can be confusing and misleading. 3. search engines are the biggest blind user. They index this message and assume it is content. Try this - or any similar sort of search to see just what Google is indexing: http://www.google.com/search?hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8q=%22browser+does+n ot%22btnG=Google+Search The reality is that this campaign had specific goals when it started - mainly to move users who may not have been aware of browser upgrades to new browsers. WaSP and Zeldman, who started or at least spoke loudly about this technique have since dropped it. The other thing to remember is that you may be able to let IE4 and NN4 browsers see a reasonable site without the need for a browser warning at all. Do you need to tell them they are getting a slightly reduced quality version of the site? Again, just personal opinion. Russ Regarding the accessability message, any suggestions for changing the wording? Is there a 'satandard' blurb? How come so many people saw this, did they have CSS turned off? Is it a good idea to have a link to browser upgrades in this message? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
What a shock! ;) link rel=shortcut icon href=http://www.cinema4duser.com/favicon.ico /> works fine and also vaidates it seems. And you only have to put it in the index.html page. Thanks P On 12/03/2004, at 2:01 PM, Chris Blown wrote: However this doesn't work for IE. Works fine other browsers. IE is also picky about the file format. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Thankyou David and Russ, a great suggestion which I will put into practice now. I was copying the habit of other sites by doing this, and you're right, it doesn't seem necessary. P On 12/03/2004, at 2:03 PM, David McDonald wrote: Personally, I'd probably loose the standards message altogether for a couple of reasons: x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
You can also add link rel=[shortcut ]icon type=image/png href=/path/to/icon.png / Although this will not work on IE. Shortcut icons work very variably in IE anyway and even then only when you bookmark a page (sometimes). I've rarely got them showing up when I used IE in the ol' days.. I use PNG's as they are easier to make in Fireworks and work 100% of the time in everything else. Cheers James Chris Blown wrote: You can put the favicon.ico file in the webroot. This works without the need for any markup. However this doesn't work for IE. Works fine other browsers. IE is also picky about the file format. Cheers Chris Blown http://hinterlands.com.au On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 13:35, Universal Head wrote: This doesn't validate either - does anyone have the correct validatingcode for inserting a favicon? Peter On 12/03/2004, at 12:50 PM, James Ellis wrote: The validator is having some issues with link rel=shortcuticon trylink rel=icon ... / instead and you'll have a valid site! UniversalHead Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Peter Excellent work I love the styling. Leslie's comment on an extra click is worth doing and Scott's comment on navigational contrast is a factor. I personally did think the lack of contrast on the horizontal navbar buttons was hard to read. I viewed it in Safari 1.1 1.2 Mac MSIE 5.2.2 Mac and everything works except in MSIE Mac the sitemap brings up a 404 but it did work in Safari. Must be a syntax thing. The pseudo-borders (hit spots) for active links in Safari also need to be defined because they are showing inconsistently on different navbar buttons. It bites into the hard work you put into doing it right. Overall I think you've done a great job on this site. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site (end of thread please)
As long as you don't mind all the 404 errors. Best practice: * Use the icon format with as many versions as you like (16x16, 32x32, 16 colour, 256 colour etc.) within that file. * Use favicon.ico as the filename and put in in the site root. This will account for a majority by default. * On every page in the site, use link rel=shortcut icon href=http://domain.name/favicon.ico; /. This accounts for old IE browsers that may look in the current dir for the icon if the link isn't present. (Of course leave out the trailing / for HTML versions). I don't mean /favicon.ico I mean http://domain.name/favicon.ico; meaning the full uri of the file. Trust me, it works. That covers as many options as is possible. Having done this we reduce 404 errors on this file to zero so I must be pretty well right. Why did I have webboy.ico in my example? Because we run three sites from the same codebase. We have three specific favicons and a plain default favicon.ico for browsers that don't read the link tag. No it's not the only answer but it works and the thread has gone on long enough now. P What a shock! ;) link rel=shortcut icon href=http://www.cinema4duser.com/favicon.ico; / works fine and also vaidates it seems. And you only have to put it in the index.html page. Thanks P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
I meant end of favicon topic, not feedback on the site. Sorry, P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Hi Peter, The design appears to be clean. The site loads fast for me. My only wee critique is that the gray font color doesn't have much contrast compared to the background colors used. If it were a bit darker it would be easier to read. Otherwise, I'm going to enjoy reading through the site. Cheers Sarah http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Now THIS is why I love CS - I've just increased the contrast a little. Easss Peter On 12/03/2004, at 3:13 PM, Sarah Sammis wrote: If it were a bit darker it would be easier to read. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Peter, Now THIS is why I love CS - I've just increased the contrast a little. Easss now you are getting it :-) john John Allsopp :: westciv :: software, courses, resources for a standards based web style master blog http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ http://www.westciv.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
CSS is great that way. The text is easier to read now. Cheers Sarah On Thursday, Mar 11, 2004, at 20:28 US/Pacific, Universal Head wrote: Now THIS is why I love CS - I've just increased the contrast a little. Easss Peter On 12/03/2004, at 3:13 PM, Sarah Sammis wrote: If it were a bit darker it would be easier to read. Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Im sorry, Peter, but I hate your new site. I LOATHE it. Oh, not because you did a rotten job in my opinion. On the contrary, its so good it reminds me of my own shortcomings in the artistic/design department. Every time I look at a nicely designed site, I say to myself DAMN! I wish Id have thought of that! The colours are all subtle where mine more resemble a bull in a china shop. You use white space where I couldnt bear to see it Id be sticking stuff in there and ruining the whole look. The header a single non-focussed image and a simple text label I love that but I wouldnt have thought of it in a million years. And that makes me mad Youve done a really good job and you should be proud of it. I wish I had it in my portfolio! Now Im going to pull up the design for the radio station Im working on and try again more subtle this time Michael!! Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 12 March 2004 3:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] New CSS site Now THIS is why I love CS - I've just increased the contrast a little. Easss Peter On 12/03/2004, at 3:13 PM, Sarah Sammis wrote: If it were a bit darker it would be easier to read. Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Nice one yetagain Peter! All of your recent sites have been a pleasure to look at and the simple yet beautiful designs are the perfect partner for table-less layouts... Miles. -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:20 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] New CSS site Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Mike - hilarious! I freaked out there for a sec!! Never fear, there a plenty of sites online that I hate and loathe too. Todd Dominey and whatdoiknow.org - the guy is a sensitive designer AND can program (it makes me sick!) ... www.jasonsantamaria.com ... damn, I've had that idea for ages and he goes and does it perfectly! Well, I could go on and on ... there's always someone better out there. And if you really want a kick in the face, just pick up a design annual. Argh! BTW, I was designing for many years before I started making sites - that helps. Back in college I had stuff like using white space etc. pounded into us. For inspiration, look at traditional design as well as other websites. Thanks mate! It's a great pleasure to give someone else the same reaction I always have! ;) Peter On 12/03/2004, at 3:54 PM, Michael Kear wrote: Oh, not because you did a rotten job in my opinion. On the contrary, its so good it reminds me of my own shortcomings in the artistic/design department. Every time I look at a nicely designed site, I say to myself DAMN! I wish Id have thought of that! The colours are all subtle where mine more resemble a bull in a china shop. You use white space where I couldnt bear to see it Id be sticking stuff in there and ruining the whole look. The header a single non-focussed image and a simple text label I love that but I wouldnt have thought of it in a million years. And that makes me mad Youve done a really good job and you should be proud of it. I wish I had it in my portfolio! Now Im going to pull up the design for the radio station Im working on and try again more subtle this time Michael!! x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
Peter, Great looking site - very beautiful from an aesthetics POV. Can't add much value to the other comments you've had except maybe... found the body text font on the small side - especially on the iMac here at work). You could add some more keywords to the title tag to feed the search engines too. Great work. Regards PAUL ROSS SkyRocket Design Co http://www.skyrocket.com.au Quoting Universal Head [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
