RE: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
Thanks everyone for your thoughts on positioning vs float... except of course that opinion is divided! As usual, its a matter of finding the best fit for what I want to achieve. I think I might do a new version of the site using floats over the weekend, just to see if it makes a difference. My real reason for avoiding floats is that I always seem to come unstuck when defining the width of various divs, and end up with odd multi-pixel spaces all over the place - particularly when there are margins, and a mix of fluid and liquid elements. Then again, I'm quite happy with what I have no except for the fact that Opera dies at above 200% zoom. Thanks again. I've only been lurking here for a couple of weeks but all the advice I've seen posted has been great. AS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
Anura, I noticed someone made the comment that the preferred floats to absolute positioning. I have just created a new design using absolute positioning. It 'seems' to work across IE, Mozilla, Opera and latest Netscape (I'm trying to forget about NS4.7). But what is the consensus amongst my esteemed colleagues here? Am I walking into a trap? Are there flaws in absolute positioning so terrible that something will break dreadfully somewhere? The traps are mainly centred what happens to your positioned layout when the text is resized in the browser (either by text-zoom, page-zoom, or even just a minimum font size that is large). The trap here essentially is that an item with a fixed height (like 50px) will eventually be too small to contain it's text. With a floated layout, you can more easily stack blocks down the page which will clear each other regardless of how large the text is inside them. Typically I prefer floated (or a combination of absolute positioned items in relative positioned boxes), because it's a lot easier to reproduce classic layouts which have a footer below all other elements. If you layout still works when text is zoomed to 200-300% of it's original size in Mozilla/Opera/IE, then you don't really have much to worry about, IMO. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
When done properly, with due care for which parent container it uses, absolute positioning yields a lot more robust results, imho. It would be dangerous to simply dismiss absolute positioning in favour of floats. You've just got to be careful in how you position things, to avoid potential problems of things overlapping or not scaling properly at different browser sizes. Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed someone made the comment that the preferred floats to absolute positioning. I have just created a new design using absolute positioning. It 'seems' to work across IE, Mozilla, Opera and latest Netscape (I'm trying to forget about NS4.7). But what is the consensus amongst my esteemed colleagues here? Am I walking into a trap? Are there flaws in absolute positioning so terrible that something will break dreadfully somewhere? AS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
Hi Anura, Personally, I go with floats every time. Absolute positioning relies on the display size too much. It also allows coders to apply fixes to the document flow. Have you considered the documents appearance on a 160px wide PDA? How about a Braille reader? mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.webSemantics.co.uk /marquee/blink -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 August 2004 07:38 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats I noticed someone made the comment that the preferred floats to absolute positioning. I have just created a new design using absolute positioning. It 'seems' to work across IE, Mozilla, Opera and latest Netscape (I'm trying to forget about NS4.7). But what is the consensus amongst my esteemed colleagues here? Am I walking into a trap? Are there flaws in absolute positioning so terrible that something will break dreadfully somewhere? AS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:49:52 +0100, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I go with floats every time. Absolute positioning relies on the display size too much. I try to mix it up a bit - there's lots of browser bugs with floats (think Mac IE5). Absolute positioning is fantastic for stuffing the navigation and masthead fluff down the bottom of the source code (good for screen readers and search engines). You go with what suits the project. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
On Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004, at 18:49 Australia/Sydney, Mike Foskett wrote: Have you considered the documents appearance on a 160px wide PDA? How about a Braille reader? Surely you wouldn't deliver the layout CSS to either of these devices... semantically structured text and (for the PDA) minimal relevant images only - ? Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
Nick, Surely you wouldn't deliver the layout CSS to either of these devices... semantically structured text and (for the PDA) minimal relevant images only - ? Quite correct, I wouldn't, but I've noticed one user on a PDA device that completely ignored the mobile device CSS. One more plus for elastic designs. mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.webSemantics.co.uk /marquee/blink -Original Message- From: Nick Gleitzman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 August 2004 13:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats On Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004, at 18:49 Australia/Sydney, Mike Foskett wrote: Have you considered the documents appearance on a 160px wide PDA? How about a Braille reader? Surely you wouldn't deliver the layout CSS to either of these devices... semantically structured text and (for the PDA) minimal relevant images only - ? Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
Kay, There's not that much of a problem with IE v5.2 and floats. Just avoid conditions where it incorrectly inherits and add clear's. It's been a while since I've used absolute positioning (2 yrs plus). Though I'm pretty sure we used to have problems with coordinate mapping on Mac IE. I somehow doubt it's been corrected. Which meant that there has to be an offset value specifically stated for the IE v5.2 on the Mac. These days I wouldn't worry so much about IE on a Mac. Pretty much everyone uses Safari on OSX. mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.webSemantics.co.uk /marquee/blink -Original Message- From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 August 2004 11:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:49:52 +0100, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I go with floats every time. Absolute positioning relies on the display size too much. I try to mix it up a bit - there's lots of browser bugs with floats (think Mac IE5). Absolute positioning is fantastic for stuffing the navigation and masthead fluff down the bottom of the source code (good for screen readers and search engines). You go with what suits the project. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
