Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
Neerav schrieb: Theoretical example 1: we used to design for 5.x browsers but recently stopped doing so without charging clients an extra XX% That is what we do now. I add an import filter (and document it) so that IE 4.0-5.0/Win and IE4.0-5.x/Mac and NN 4.x ignore imported styles: @import'styles.css'; http://www.dithered.com/css_filters/css_only/import_single_quotes_no_space.html If a client really want to support look and feel for these old browsers we will charge extra. (Accessibility level A is always included.) The only problem are browsers with partially broken CSS support that we cannot filter out without side effects (or filtering is too tricky). In general I do my best to support: Moz 1+ IE 5.5+ Opera 7+ Safari 1+ Konqueror 3.3+. (and browsers based on the browsers above) The detailed browser support level depends on the project, though. Tonico ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
@import'styles.css'; http://www.dithered.com/css_filters/css_only/import_single_quotes_no_space.html Agree, I'm lately converting to doing it the same way (as you never know when the brokem wannabe-css-rendering makes the site unusable, so rather serve plain document to them). -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
I develop sites primarily for Opera and Firefox and then downgrade for IE6. I occasionally check in Safari. Opera/Gecko/Safari get fully-featured website. IE6 almost (except some :hover/:focus, etc) and generally I don't care about anything else. If client pays extra I add stylesheet+scripting hacks for IE5/win. I quite often use position:absolute + right/bottom, @media and some other things that are disasterous for IE5/mac. I don't like to hide my * html hacks from it either, so IE5/mac is really low on my list. I hide styles entirely from 4.x browsers. There is no way to force me to support NN. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
I design on the mac so I first test on Safari and then Camino. Then I go to my PC or VNC it and test on IE6.0 and Firefox. Firefox and Camino have slight differences e.g. form behaviour and font-size in form inputs so it's important to test in both. And then I test on Opera on the mac. Finally, I test on IE 5 on both mac and PC and make sure it breaks down gracefully and is at least functional though ugly on both browsers. Regards, Muammar Kris Khaira http://kriskhaira.com http://www.lifelogger.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
Neerav, we develop for Firefox and test while developing from time to time in Opera (7). If everything is done, we check in IE6 and Safari and tweak the code (using conditional comments for IE). After that we check in IE5 (Win), but just if anything breaks the layout completly. IE5 Mac and Version 4 Browsers get unstyled text without decorative images/flash. Once in a while we check our site in Konqueror. Martin. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
I test on a PC using Firefox and IE5 (one good browser and one rubbish one). I find that if I test on both of these browsers as I go along, it tends to minimise the amount of tweaks I have to do later on. It's worked for my last few sites anyway. Once completed I test in Opera and Netscape on PC and Safari and IE5 on Mac. Cheers Nick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neerav Sent: 12 May 2005 03:03 To: WSG Subject: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for? Hi I havent asked this for a while so it would be interesting to know what the current trend in Browser/Operating system support is for the freelancers/corporates on this list to see if there has been any change in the last 6-12 months Theoretical example 1: we used to design for 5.x browsers but recently stopped doing so without charging clients an extra XX% Theoretical example 2: we didn't test functionality on Mozilla before, but the increasing usage of Mozilla in site statistics convinced management to allow time for Mozilla testing etc etc -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis, Ceneka ... http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
Our current list is: Windows 2000/XP Mac OS 10 + Browsers: IE 6.0 + Netscape 7 + Firefox 1 + Mozilla 1.7 + Safari We are a company, with most of our users are IE6 on Windows. They're in industries where the flashiest newest is not a proirity. We until recently fully supported IE 5/5.5 but no more. I'll make sure it's not totally yucky, but it's ok to degrade. My $0.02 from Washington DC lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
Neerav wrote: I havent asked this for a while so it would be interesting to know what the current trend in Browser/Operating system support is for the freelancers/corporates on this list to see if there has been any change in the last 6-12 months I think of people stuck with old browsers, the same way I think of people using keyboard navigation, etc. I believe browser support is accessibility, so I spend time tweaking my sheets, *trying* to make my sites look good in as many browsers as possible. I test in: Mac: Mozilla, Firefox, Safari, Camino, IE5.0 (OS9) and 5.2 (OSX) Windows: MSIE 5.0/5.5/6.0 - NN 4/6/7 - Opera 6+, Mozilla, Firebird, Firefox 0.8+ Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
On Thu, 12 May 2005 15:56:10 +0100, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think of people stuck with old browsers, the same way I think of people using keyboard navigation, etc. I believe browser support is accessibility, so I spend time tweaking my sheets, *trying* to make my sites look good in as many browsers as possible. Pretty does not mean accessible. I think it's better to spend time on some WAI checkpoints rather than adding display tweaks for NN4 and alike. If your HTML is well-written, it should be pretty accessible without stylesheets or scripting, and you could spend your time on something more useful. Mac: Mozilla, Firefox, Safari, Camino, IE5.0 (OS9) and 5.2 (OSX) Windows: MSIE 5.0/5.5/6.0 - NN 4/6/7 - Opera 6+, Mozilla, Firebird, Firefox 0.8+ I'd absolutely drop NN4. If it still has any users alive, they should be used to that sites are unstyled/broken in it. NN6 is rather experimental/broken and I can't even find a trace of it in webstats I use (ranking.pl). Opera users upgrade so quickly that Opera 6 now has few times smaller userbase than IE4. It's really marginal - I guess most of them are mobile phones users, and only Opera 7+ has option for testing handheld styles... Check Gecko versions in NN7/Firebird and Mozilla/Firefox you use - probably they use (almost) the same engines, so you don't have to use them all for testing. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?
Kornel Lesinski wrote: Pretty does not mean accessible. OK, I should have said look good and functional ;-) For example, when DIVs overlap, links become unclickable, content disappear. etc. I think it's better to spend time on some WAI checkpoints rather than adding display tweaks for NN4 and alike. I try to do both. If your HTML is well-written, it should be pretty accessible without stylesheets or scripting, and you could spend your time on something more useful. If the HTML/CSS is well written a document can look good/be functional in many browsers too. For example, why is it so complicated for some people to have a decent layout in IE5/Win? Because of its broken box model or because of the designer's skills? BTW, I think serving no style sheet to NN4 is one thing, but letting v.5 browsers feed on styles that break them is another story. I'd absolutely drop NN4. If it still has any users alive, they should be used to that sites are unstyled/broken in it. NN6 is rather experimental/broken and I can't even find a trace of it in webstats I use (ranking.pl). My reply to the OP was to tell him how I do it, not to tell people what they should do ;-) Opera users upgrade so quickly that Opera 6 now has few times smaller userbase than IE4. It's really marginal - I guess most of them are mobile phones users, and only Opera 7+ has option for testing handheld styles... I agree... Check Gecko versions in NN7/Firebird and Mozilla/Firefox you use - probably they use (almost) the same engines, so you don't have to use them all for testing. You're right, but it feels so good when you open a document in 4 or 5 different browsers in a row and it looks the *same* :-) I don't [try to] build layouts with strong browser support because I have too, I just do it for the challenge. And there is no time wasted because that's the way I learn... Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
