[ydn-delicious] Tagging and foldering

2007-10-03 Thread Hamish MacEwan
Hi,

Another perspective on the issue:

"A while ago I published a blog essay and screencast on the evolution
from a folder-oriented to a tag-oriented metaphor for storing,
organizing, and searching for digital objects. The subject of the
screencast was Windows Photo Gallery, an application that lives at the
intersection of those two metaphors. Since then, I've looked for
opportunities to explore what happens at that intersection."

http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/10/03/tagging-and-foldering/


Hamish.
-- 
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Re: another del2.0 feature req (was Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: starting del 2.0 and more communication from me)

2007-02-09 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 2/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  oh -- here's something that would be really cool: comments on posted URLs.

I'd be happy if I could get a link to an item in my delicious,
presently if I want to draw attention to a single del.icio.us entry
(use case?  I refer someone to the excerpts/description via such a
link, marketing del.icio.us and the item easily) I've got to select
some tag intersection that gets close, or copy and paste the item info
into another medium.

>  --j.

And given the growing interest in daily blog posting, and the
difficulties for all but WordPress, is there any plan to increase the
priority remedying this "experimental" feature?  While I admire focus
on the customer (which is all the tool bar effort has been), the
marketing and dissemination effects of the daily posting would satisfy
both increasing customer demand and act to promote/introduce
del.icio.us to a wider audience.

What's not to like?


Hamish.
-- 
http://del.icio.us/Hamish.MacEwan


Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: starting del 2.0 and more communication from me

2007-02-05 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 2/2/07, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Dots: people that wrong way too often (I see "de.licio.us" and
>  "deli.cio.us" way more often than I would like) and I'm really wondering
>  if we should just primarily move to delicious.com (and make del.icio.us
>  redirect properly or work etc)

Yes, please retain and redirect the old and remove the pain of having
to use it.  I loved del.icio.us but it is so pr.ecio.us to type.  Well
done on getting delicious.com

>  On commas vs spaces: I am thinking of letting it be default spaces (for
>  long-time users) or default commas (for new users) or perhaps some
>  middle ground guessing, if the user does [ w x "y z" ] or [ w, x, y z ]
>  etc.

The delimiter would be a setting?  Your comment about default implies
that is the case.  Guessing always seems risky.

On the subject of ", I've a number of tags that are of the form
"Title" that have never worked properly, ie,
http://del.icio.us/Hamish.MacEwan/%22AbreLosOjos%22 claims there are
no items.

On other subjects, I'd really appreciate the daily blog posting
"experimental" and very useful feature for Wordpress users, bein
corrected and made usable by other blog platforms.  Google Docs
provides an excellent model for this kind of operation.

In a way I'm quite pleased that demand growth and resource constraint
has limited the degree of visible "improvement" of del.icio.us.  Back
end changes generally improve things, but the del.icio.us plug-in that
messes with client bookmarks is something I will never install.  The
whole point, for me, of del.icio.us is to have access to my links from
browsers I don't control, and my experiences with GoogleSync and the
stories on this list suggest these things never perform to spec.

>  Joshua


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Re: [ydn-delicious] Blogware & daily blog posting

2007-01-12 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 1/7/07, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That's the error being returned to delicious by blogware...

I've tried the blog posting facility at docs.google.com and that
succeeded, though I note their settings involve only identifying
blogware as the host, userid/password and blog name.  Categories arise
from tagging the document.

Thus I conclude blogware is functional (or Google have mitigated any quirks).

While I appreciate del.icio.us's daily blog posting is "an
experimental feature" and there are doubtless many other demands, it
is such a cool feature, please forgive the pestering.

>  Joshua


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Re: [ydn-delicious] Blogware & daily blog posting

2007-01-06 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 1/7/07, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks for the response.

> That's the error being returned to delicious by blogware...

Quite, and I didn't intend to imply its obscurity was del.icio.us's
responsibility, but I had hoped del.icio.us's more extensive
experience with this function might enable a suggestion as to where my
configuration may be awry.

The parameters I entered are:

   * job_name is the name for your posting "thingy", which can be anything
Blogware
   * out_name is the login name you use for your blog
hamishmac
   * out_pass is the password you use for your blog
**
   * out_url is the full URL of the XML-RPC interface for your blog,
  which probably ends in something like mt-xmlrpc.cgi
http://www.blogware.com/xmlrpc.cgi
   * out_time is the hour (from 0-23 in GMT) to post your links at every day
12
   * out_blog_id is your blog ID number (which is probably 1 if you
 have only one blog) [I have two, but assume they are counted from 1]
1
   * out_cat_id is optional: the category ID number in your blog
 where you'd like to put these posts
1502593 [the large number results from blogware having unique cat_ids
over all blogs they host]

>From the error message I get the impression a boolean value is desired
for "argument 5" which from a quick scan of:

http://www.xmlrpc.com/metaWeblogApi

Gives:

metaWeblog.newPost (blogid, username, password, struct, publish)

So argument 5 looks like the publish parameter over which my daily
blog posting configuration appears to have no control, and would
sensibly be true (though why you would call this entry point with
false, I'm unsure) and set by del.icio.us.

>  Joshua


Hamish.
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[ydn-delicious] Blogware & daily blog posting

2007-01-06 Thread Hamish MacEwan
Hi,

I'm trying to use the daily blog post feature with my blog at
http://Hamish.blogware.com but get the following error, which forgive
me, is a bit obscure:

results:Running at Sat Jan 6 12:30:34 2007 GMTFetched 1
items.metaWeblog.newPost fault was: Expecting [TrueClass,
FalseClass] as argument 5, got Fixnum

Has anyone succeeded in getting this feature to work with Blogware?

No sign of blogware in the list archives, except under rather
unfortunate circumstances...  I've also approached my blogware
retailer for assistance.


Hamish.
-- 
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Re: [ydn-delicious] 2007 wish(es) - post content without url

2006-12-28 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 12/28/06, Kishore Balakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  The remaining missing piece in del.icio.us is hierarchical tagging

http://del.icio.us/mokshore/people+inspiring

That would be people, sub-group, inspiring?  Pretty hierarchical to me.

Seems to be a problem with this though, the sub-folder was empty while
http://del.icio.us/mokshore/inspiring listed items tagged with
inspiring.

It is possible to achieve the hierarchical effect with the facilities
already present.

As with the "open link in new tab" request (achievable on all my
platforms with Firefox via button three, clicking the scroll wheel)
providing additional features that are already available is probably
not the best use of del.icio.us' resources.

>  Cheers, Kishore.


Hamish.
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Re: [ydn-delicious] Request for hierarchical bookmarks

2006-12-23 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 12/22/06, Michael Feher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Still on the topic of hierarchical organization...has there been any talk of 
> adding something like a dot separator
>  a la Java to tags to be able to sub-tag bookmarks?  I think this would be a 
> great feature and would not detract
>  from the ability to see things as a cloud, etc. in delicious as it is done 
> now.

I've not responded to these kinds of call for functionality in the
past, but just to put on record my belief and evidence its unnecessary
here's my POV YMMV.

Hierarchical structures of folders are a straitjacket, based on "a
place for everything and everything in its place."  In fact its more
like "one and only one place for anything."  But if you enjoy the
results you can have them in del.icio.us by tagging with the folder
names you wish in  the hierarchy and accessing thus for example:

http://del.icio.us/Hamish.MacEwan/Open+del.icio.us

(this indirectly illustrates a problem with '.' notation for "sub.folders"

This gives you complete freedom to restructure the hierarchy (because
it is imposed rather than innate), the only thing missing is the
mnemonic assistance I sometimes get by traversing the hierarchy
looking for *just* the right place to put things, that properly belong
in two or more places, a contingency wonderfully coped with by
tagging.

Thus del.icio.us can give you any hierarchical view you wish, while
also allowing the greater flexibility of a single level of folders and
multiple membership, AKA tagging.

>  Mike


Hamish.
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Re: [ydn-delicious] Scheduled Outage on Sunday 12/17 at 12PM PST

2006-12-18 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 12/19/06, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Neither of those should have dissapeared. They work fine for me. Try
>  shift-reload to flush browser caches?

That didn't fix it, but logging out and logging back in did.  Please
forgive the false alarm.

>  Joshua


Hamish.
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Re: [ydn-delicious] Scheduled Outage on Sunday 12/17 at 12PM PST

2006-12-18 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 12/15/06, nick.nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Let me know if you have any
>  questions.

1. What happened to the roll-up triangles on tag bundles?
2. Where did the form input for tag selection go?

(Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-GB;
rv:1.8.1) Gecko/2006101023 Firefox/2.0 on Windows 2000)


Hamish.
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Re: [ydn-delicious] Heirarchical bookmarks

2006-10-25 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 10/26/06, Gabriel Birke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> However, there is no "Folder" view of tags where you can drill down,
> limiting your link selection more and more. That would be a nice feature.

The effect can  be achieved, and it is dynamic too:

http://del.icio.us/Hamish.MacEwan/programming   <- the programming "folder"

http://del.icio.us/Hamish.MacEwan/programming+Ajax <- the Ajax "sub-folder"


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Re: [ydn-delicious] API Authentication

2006-10-09 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 10/10/06, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Totally agree. We are staying static with this auth mechanism for now
> and will be moving to something like Flickr's in the future.

Wouldn't BBAuth (if that isn't what Flickr does) be the best option.
Looks like the beginning of 3rd party Digital ID authentication.


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[ydn-delicious] Innovator of the Year: Joshua Schachter

2006-09-08 Thread Hamish MacEwan
In case my first attempt to the out-of-date addressed didn't work:

To: "del.icio.us discussion list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Congratulations!

http://www.technologyreview.com/TR35/TR35.aspx?TRID=432


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[ydn-delicious] Innovator of the Year: Joshua Schachter

2006-09-08 Thread Hamish MacEwan
Congratulations!

http://www.technologyreview.com/TR35/TR35.aspx?TRID=432

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Re: [ydn-delicious] Maintaining the del.icio.us links

2006-08-16 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 8/16/06, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> All kinds of subtlety here. For example, what to do if the site happens
> to be down while we check it? What about respecting robots.txt etc?

Site down?  system:dead, system:unresponsive, lasts until next check
(automatic or manual) shows available.

robots.txt?  As far as I know, this relates to bulk spidering not the
accessing of specific URLs, which is the case here.  robots.txt would
have the same relationship to this process as it does were I to run
one of the many link-checker applications from my PC.  Del.icio.us
would appear no different to the caching-proxy of any significant ISP.
 However, if a site operator was concerned enough to specify
"User-agent: del.icio.us" obviously (to me) del.icio.us should respect
that.

In any case, this all begs the question of the degree of integration
that is occurring, or indeed existed, between del.icio.us and one or
some of the search engines.

Social search, among many meanings, may imply the use of the
aggregated click streams of sites like del.icio.us (or digg, techmeme,
rojo, et al) to drive priority indexing.  There might be a correlation
between what appears on del.icio.us/popular and what people are
searching for, thus early availability of search results from those
links (or the entire site) may provide an advantage at very economical
cost to the search operator.

Further, association with a search engine using this approach would
mean del.icio.us could utilise that search engines cache, so that even
if the link died, del.icio.us could offer the cached version of that
page, all usual caveats applying.

My untested feeling is that del.icio.us does search more than the
fields in the post link form which suggests some caching or access to
cache is occurring.

> Joshua


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Re: [ydn-delicious] inbox broken?

2006-07-10 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 7/11/06, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Not a terrible idea. Except lots of people poll it via RSS and it's hard
> to tell if they are actually reading it...

Same argument would apply no?  Response time would, I guess, be even
less of an issue for an RSS poll than someone actually waiting for the
inbox contents.

I offer the suggestion as I'm a bit guilty about the burden the inbox,
which as I say I only intermittently use, might be imposing.  The
concern perhaps justified by the fact inbox generation/population is
currently "falling behind..."

> Joshua


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Re: [ydn-delicious] inbox broken?

2006-07-10 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 7/11/06, Toby Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Inbox had fallen behind, but
> is catching up now.

I'd like to suggest, depending on actual usage stats del.icio.us has,
that consideration be given to populating the inbox on demand.

My own usage is occasional, and depending, it might be a lighter
burden to bypass regular updates in favour of on-demand.

Or make it an option, .


> Toby Elliott
> del.icio.us


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Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: Boolean

2006-06-20 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 6/20/06, Chris Lott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 6/19/06, Joshua Schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In general, a very small slice of user traffic makes use of
> > intersections. I suspect that more complicated queries would be even
> > less used.

> I don't know that this kind of extrapolation is particularly valid or
> relevant. Of course most of the direct (tag based) browsing will be
> simply of individual tags-- just like most searches are simple terms.

The allocation of resources is clearly related to the degree they are
used, and adding expensive resources may be the first step to the kind
of "featuritis" that bedevils many applications, web and stand-alone.

It seems reasonable to extrapolate from the low utilisation simpler
complexities, that greater complexity would be even less used.

KISS principle applies here I think.  As with many other enhancements,
most recently "Can I see the URLs explicitly?" perhaps a client side
or web-based broker application (like del.icio.us director) is a
better solution since it need only be adopted by those users that
require it without impacting on the simplicity of the core.  As I
quote endlessly:

"this is why a heavy-duty core will always lose...by definition, it must
offer services which are of interest to only a subset of its users and
yet all users are impacted by them..."  /mtr

>  In those cases I simply don't use del.icio.us at all.

An under-shot non-user market is only worth pursuing if it is large
enough to justify the cost.

> In both cases the potentual use and audience is hard to judge because
> it isn't just a subset of current users that must be considered, but a
> bunch of previously impossible/impractical uses!

Indeed, it is difficult and I think the best evidence, actual use of
available features, however supports the conclusion Joshua et al have
made, while the opportunity exists for third-parties to supplement
that functionality without permission.

> I know del,icio.us
> has to walk a line in implementation (and have argued here before when
> it comes to keeping other features out/hidden), so don't take this as
> criticism, simply observation.

And a useful one.

> c


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Re: [delicious-discuss] notes maximum length?

2006-04-17 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 4/18/06, Chris Lott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4/17/06, Hamish MacEwan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 4/18/06, Chris Lott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > if it's data that only 20% of users will ever bother with,
> > > is it worth worrying about?

> There are different segments of x%. You are talking about x% of all
> users, I am talking about x% of use of features :)

So, 20% use of a feature is different from 20% of the users using a
feature...  I'd be curious to have you define the former.

On roughly the same subject as note length, why is it that 
http://del.icio.us/popular/ don't listings and feeds have any notes? 
It would be a lot more useful if there were some additional
information beyond the title.


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Re: [delicious-discuss] notes maximum length?

2006-04-17 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 4/18/06, Chris Lott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> if it's data that only 20% of users will ever bother with,
> is it worth worrying about?

Firstly I think if the needs and/or desires of 20% of users don't
matter, we can stop worrying about the blind and otherwise perception
impaired, and slivers like Mac OSX and Firefox users can equally be
ignored.

Secondly, if 20% wish to make the additional effort, perhaps
selfishly, it maybe that they can have a much larger overall effect
through some kind of leverage by the 80% who don't.

Somewhere, IIRC (and its not likely I do) Joshua made a comment about
options alleviating the need for designers to decide for users.  Given
this suggestion involves individual users (and their viewers, though
optional fields would likely be suppressed in aggregate views), I
don't agree there is a problem.

On the Thesaurus suggestion, sounds good, on a user by user and user
selectable basis, and perhaps the "tag bundling" structure could be
extended for this purpose, ie, where you were bundling for this
purpose, a flag could indicate utilisation as a thesaural (?) entry.

> c

Hamish MacEwan
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Re: [delicious-discuss] where are all my tags (on the posting page)?...

2006-03-27 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 3/28/06, Matthew Weymar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Well, as you can probably imagine: I, for one, would very much appreciate a 
> "remembered" Show All button.

Particularly if this is an option that would reset the "use minimum."

Also, does "use minimum," or the 500 tag limit affect the offered tags
in the drop down or "recommended tags" contents?

If so, I would suggest the reach of the recommended tags be left as ALL.

> Matthew

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[delicious-discuss] In-line Editing and "use minimum"

2006-03-26 Thread Hamish MacEwan
Hi,

I use Firefox 1.5.0.1 on Linux and Windows XP and the behaviour of the
"edit/delete" link is different.  On Windows, edit brings up the
full-screen edit, on Linux I get the in-line edit with the option for
fullscreen.  What might be causing this and how can I get in-line on
Windows?

Another comment, "use minimum," once set to 1, 2 or 5, doesn't seem
resettable to 0.  That 0 is a valid use case appears to be supported
by the ability to add tags to a bundle in the settings area, rather
than limiting it to tagging a post.  Is resetting to zero  something
that can be done?


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[delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion

2006-02-03 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 2/3/06, Larson, Timothy E. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why not take advantage of some of the things the producer has already
> included in the content when you bookmark it?  There must be _some_
> overlap between what the producer and consumer think is noteworthy about
> the content, right?  That is to say, certain tags the consumer will use
> are, or could be, inherent in the page.

I think all your suggestions have merit and agree with many of
Joshua's push-backs.

In the end, I would personally prefer del.icio.us to remain simple,
and your ideas and others implemented, as best they can (which may be
better), either via posting scripts that use the API or extensions on
the client like Greasemonkey scripts.

Light-weight cores (preferably open) win after all:

this is why a heavy-duty core will always lose...by definition, it must
offer services which are of interest to only a subset of its users and
yet all users are impacted by them...  /mtr

Marshal T Rose on the X.400 mailing list (which actually used SMTP)
explaining the demise of X.400, but I find it has much wider
application.


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Re: [delicious-discuss] inbox bookmarks

2005-10-25 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 10/24/05, joshua schachter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm not really sure what to do with it. I think people mostly use it
> either a) to subscribe to people or b) to subscribe to tags (but
> generally not both.)

I'm in the "both" camp, and was drowning, until I discovered what the
"edit inbox" function did, essentially create sub-folders of the inbox
that can be inspected individually.

Currently I have sub-inboxes named "People" "Acquaintances" and
"Wireless" for example.  This has made the inbox infinitely more
useful...

I'd still appreciate the provenance of a link, IE, where, which
subscription(s) it came from, but my vote would definitely be to
retain it.

Even if there is a person method down the track, I hope inbox
subscription to a userid is retained.

> We've got a replacement for subscribing to people coming soon. I'm
> not sure what to do about subscribing to tags (especially since
> frequently folks will subscribe to a stack of popular tags, get tens
> of thousands of items in their inbox daily and never read it at all.)

Perhaps updating the inbox could be correlated to the number of visits
it receives?

> We'll probably rename it to "subscriptions" or nuke it entirely, or
> something.

I would be very cautious about removing functionality, unless it is
critical to do so, despite acknowledging the beta status of the
service, we have developed habits around the existing facilities.

> Joshua

Hamish.
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Re: [delicious-discuss] pc mag delicious review

2005-10-24 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 10/24/05, Chris Lott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I wonder if the real frontier doesn't lie a but more removed... for
> instance, some kind of shared schema for social bookmarking that would
> allow the services to interact. Maybe what we need most is a bookmarks
> version of RSS that everyone could more easily tap into so the whole
> space could explode.


Heartily agree.  Tried flock, but since its value above standard
Firefox depends on usage of two specific sites (one I do, one I
dabble) I don't think there's a great (in the context of 100M Firefox
downloads) future for flock.

Until there are ways of integrating the client's choice of "tag-site"
the way one can select search engines in Firefox, I think its an
interesting experiment only.

Problem for flock is, once that schema/protocol is established, it
will be implemented in base Firefox, and their unique proposition will
be diluted.  Well, that's happened before, but the rate of
standardisation and concomitant commoditisation is accelerating.
Differentiation will remain in the ease with which the client manages
those tag-site relationships.

> c

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Re: [delicious-discuss] quotes in tags

2005-09-08 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 9/9/05, James Cartledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Maybe a good idea if you were starting from scratch, but doing so now
> would require everyone to change their tagging behaviour.

True, but it appears that recently just such a change of status was made to "-".

My Wi-Fi tag is now in two parts, "Wi" & "-Fi"


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Re: [delicious-discuss] Feature Request for inbox label.

2005-08-07 Thread Hamish MacEwan
On 8/7/05, Naoki Higuma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I propose an additional function to del.icio.us.
> I want to label inbox just like tag.
> Because only one label can be put up, subscriptions can not be
> classified in detail.
> 
> My inbox (*1) keeps swelling without being arranged enough...

While I'm not sure if the suggestion above would solve my problem, I too 
am finding the inbox a bit of a monster, particularly since I cannot tell the
provenenance of the links in it... I would be eager to have the source
of the entry marked with the tag/user it is the result of subscription
to.


Hamish.
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