Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
ok, for the sake of science (!!!), I've turned upside down 4 disks, and took mandatory pics: http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver11nf5.jpg http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver12nw8.jpg http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver13mj8.jpg http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver14sw7.jpg http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zfspr0nserver15tu9.jpg the rerouting of the power cables was a bit of a pain, but all in all it was easy and I'm happy it all went well: [vintage.sick-net]# zpool status pool: vintage state: ONLINE scrub: none requested config: NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM vintage ONLINE 0 0 0 raidz2ONLINE 0 0 0 c2d0ONLINE 0 0 0 c3d0ONLINE 0 0 0 c4d0ONLINE 0 0 0 c5d0ONLINE 0 0 0 c6d0ONLINE 0 0 0 c6d1ONLINE 0 0 0 c7d0ONLINE 0 0 0 c7d1ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors anyway, I don't know if the little recurring armonic noise it produced lowered, too much ambient noise now, I'll post again after having heard it at night ;P bye This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
On 9/6/07, Dave Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning the opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational vibration. Be careful here. I know some older disks are not designed to run upside down. Check the drive manufacturers data sheet on the drives you are using. -- Paul Kraus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
I've seen the page with the pics of that server, and I agree with this issue. So I'd like to try to reverse half of the disks too, how would you advice to do this? My current setup is as follows, where up is normal disk upside paced, and down is with upside plate down and electronics side up: up up up up up up up up would it be better to do this: up down up down up down up down or this: up up up up down down down down or maybe this? up up down down up up down down (about the spinning/moving thing: the blue wires are *tight*, and the disk doesn't spin like a washing machine anyway... I understand this issue, but I prefer silence and slightly moving/pronetobreaking disks than noise, with a raidz2 setup, I just hope they don't fail on me more than 2 at a time =) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Yes, if you have any MFM/RLL drives in your possession, please disregard my recomendation ;) -=dave - Original Message - From: Paul Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :))) On 9/6/07, Dave Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning the opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational vibration. Be careful here. I know some older disks are not designed to run upside down. Check the drive manufacturers data sheet on the drives you are using. -- Paul Kraus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
the up/down/up/down/... scenario should give the best results in minimizing accumulative rotation vibration. -=dave - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dave Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Christopher Gibbs [EMAIL PROTECTED]; zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 2:35 AM Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :))) I've seen the page with the pics of that server, and I agree with this issue So I'd like to try to reverse half of the disks too, how would you advice to do this? My current setup is as follows, where up is normal disk upside paced, and down is with upside plate down and electronics side up: up up up up up up up up would it be better to do this: up down up down up down up down or this: up up up up down down down down or maybe this? up up down down up up down down On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 03:24:25PM -0700, Dave Johnson wrote: Agreed ! However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning the opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational vibration. I had to make a makeshift temporary server when our NAS gateway device had a problem that required we reinitialize the array (after moving all data off of course). I used a Coolermaster CM Stacker with 16x750GB drives in SATA 4-drive carriers all going the same direction and the system made a horrendous oscillating buzz, as well as the occasional drive timeout warning from the RAID controller when the system was under high load (all drives part of single RAID6 array). After some thought, I decided to turn 2 of the 4 drive cages upside down so that the config had 4 drives spinning normally, 4 upside down, 4 normally, and finally another 4 upside down. The oscillation was gone completely as were the rare drive timeouts under load. Your laced setup places the drives in so much dampening that it might not make much of a difference but still, might as well take care of it now rather than later when it's all buttoned up if it starts buzz. It certainly couldn't hurt. -=dave - Original Message - From: Christopher Gibbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :))) Wow, what a creative idea. And I'll bet that allows for much more airflow than the 4-in-3 drive cages do. Very nice. On 9/6/07, Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without any dampering /silencing and so on... ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5 pata root disk) with a flexible wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page is in italian, but the pictures show the concept well enough: http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397 This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- Christopher Gibbs Email / LDAP Administrator Web Integration Programming Abilene Christian University ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without any dampering /silencing and so on... ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5 pata root disk) with a flexible wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page is in italian, but the pictures show the concept well enough: http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397 This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
On 9/6/07, Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks Warning: unfounded speculation ahead. I've heard that this can cause performance issues and undue wear on the drive. The reasoning is that since the arm assembly accelerates in one direction, and there's not much force keeping the drive from rotating, it spins in the opposite direction a little bit. This isn't a huge problem by itself, but since the place the arm was aiming for is no longer there due to the counter-rotation, it has to seek a little bit in the other direction, generating more wear and tear on the bearings, more heat from the drive, and shorter drive lifetimes. I haven't seen any data to back this up or otherwise, but it does make some sense to me. The distance between tracks on a modern disk is ludicrously small - on the order of microns - so any small influence on where the head ends up seems likely to result in getting the wrong location and having to relocate. That said, it looks like quite a nice setup. Good choice on components, even if the memory isn't ECC ;-) Will ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Agreed ! However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning the opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational vibration. I had to make a makeshift temporary server when our NAS gateway device had a problem that required we reinitialize the array (after moving all data off of course). I used a Coolermaster CM Stacker with 16x750GB drives in SATA 4-drive carriers all going the same direction and the system made a horrendous oscillating buzz, as well as the occasional drive timeout warning from the RAID controller when the system was under high load (all drives part of single RAID6 array). After some thought, I decided to turn 2 of the 4 drive cages upside down so that the config had 4 drives spinning normally, 4 upside down, 4 normally, and finally another 4 upside down. The oscillation was gone completely as were the rare drive timeouts under load. Your laced setup places the drives in so much dampening that it might not make much of a difference but still, might as well take care of it now rather than later when it's all buttoned up if it starts buzz. It certainly couldn't hurt. -=dave - Original Message - From: Christopher Gibbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :))) Wow, what a creative idea. And I'll bet that allows for much more airflow than the 4-in-3 drive cages do. Very nice. On 9/6/07, Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without any dampering /silencing and so on... ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5 pata root disk) with a flexible wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page is in italian, but the pictures show the concept well enough: http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397 This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- Christopher Gibbs Email / LDAP Administrator Web Integration Programming Abilene Christian University ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Will Murnane wrote: On 9/6/07, Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks Warning: unfounded speculation ahead. I've heard that this can cause performance issues and undue wear on the drive. The reasoning is that since the arm assembly accelerates in one direction, and there's not much force keeping the drive from rotating, it spins in the opposite direction a little bit. This isn't a huge problem by itself, but since the place the arm was aiming for is no longer there due to the counter-rotation, it has to seek a little bit in the other direction, generating more wear and tear on the bearings, more heat from the drive, and shorter drive lifetimes. I was highly skeptical, given that drives are designed to run in both horizontal and vertical orientations (and to switch between them without reformatting, e.g. see http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/4236D595E2C5309F862572C500813B89/$file/C10K147_IG.pdf), and that the forces on the drive arm are quite different depending on the orientation (even though the arm is counterbalanced). However, a little searching turned up http://www.sidman.com/angaccel.htm, which tends to support the reasoning above: # Accordingly, known compensation or disturbance rejection systems, while # performing satisfactorily for applications using linear or unbalanced # rotary actuators, fail to address the problems of spindle imbalance # forces, external shock or vibration and windup in systems having a # balanced rotary actuator. This failure is due to the fact that only # angular acceleration of the HDA in the direction of actuator rotation # substantially causes positioning errors in systems that utilize a balanced # rotary actuator. and suggests using an acceleration sensor specifically to compensate for angular acceleration of the HDA in the direction of actuator rotation. Suspending the drive obviously does change this acceleration. Another possible argument is that if the drive moves slightly, so does the connector to it, which seems like a bad idea. -- David Hopwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without any dampering /silencing and so on... ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5 pata root disk) with a flexible wire, like I posted in this italian forum, the page is in italian, but the pictures show the concept well enough: http://www.pcsilenzioso.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2397 Good work, that is a lot of suspension to do :) You should post it on the silentpcreview gallery forum to show off the masterpiece :) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
The case is a Sharkoon Rebel9 (Economy edition, has no integrated fans), I bought it from an italian online store, and I think it's commercialized in Germany, it has 9 51/4 frontal slots This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Thanks, did it come with the hardware to mount HDD's in 5.25 slots? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
I'm now using the CM Stacker 810 for my file server and I love it. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1689093 It comes with one 4-in-3 drive cage and has room for 2 more (3 if you remove the front I/O panel). The drive cages are excellent - mounted with rubber washers to absorb vibration and comes with a 120mm fan mounted to the front. On 9/5/07, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, did it come with the hardware to mount HDD's in 5.25 slots? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- Christopher Gibbs Email / LDAP Administrator Web Integration Programming Abilene Christian University ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Sickness, which case are you using? I've been looking for something that supports many HDDs. Thanks. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
to clarify: i mean the promise sata300 tx4. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
do either of you know the current story about this card? i can't get it to work at all in solaris 10, but i'm very new to the OS. thanks! This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Yeah, all 3 controllers I've tested broke 137GB barrier. Unfortunately it seems that 500GB barrier is unbreakable for them ;-) Thanks for reply though. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Yeah, all 3 controllers I've tested broke 137GB barrier. Unfortunately it seems that 500GB barrier is unbreakable for them ;-) Why would they not be able to take 500GB disks? Casper ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
I'dont know really. They just hang during POST while determining size of attached hard drives. 400GB and 500GB drives works without problem. Also, onboard controller detects all 8 750GB disks, so the problemy must be on the controller side. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
cjgibbs , do You know maybe if this Promise SATA300 Tx4 controller supports 750GB hard drives? I can't find any information about that anywhere... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
No idea... mine are all 250GB and the only thing I could find on it is this blurb from their product description: Breaks the 137GB barrier! Supports various brands of large capacity Serial ATA hard disk drives http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pid=465 On 8/6/07, Maciej Klepaczewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cjgibbs , do You know maybe if this Promise SATA300 Tx4 controller supports 750GB hard drives? I can't find any information about that anywhere... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- Christopher Gibbs Email / LDAP Administrator Web Integration Programming Abilene Christian University ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Oops, that was the wrong link, but same info anyways: The SATA300 TX4 also includes large LBA support for drives above 137GB, and its onboard BIOS automatically identifies and configures drive type. http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?segment=Non-RAID%20HBAsproduct_id=139# On 8/6/07, Christopher Gibbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No idea... mine are all 250GB and the only thing I could find on it is this blurb from their product description: Breaks the 137GB barrier! Supports various brands of large capacity Serial ATA hard disk drives http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pid=465 On 8/6/07, Maciej Klepaczewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cjgibbs , do You know maybe if this Promise SATA300 Tx4 controller supports 750GB hard drives? I can't find any information about that anywhere... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- Christopher Gibbs Email / LDAP Administrator Web Integration Programming Abilene Christian University -- Christopher Gibbs Email / LDAP Administrator Web Integration Programming Abilene Christian University ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
On 8/6/07, Christopher Gibbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oops, that was the wrong link, but same info anyways: The SATA300 TX4 also includes large LBA support for drives above 137GB, and its onboard BIOS automatically identifies and configures drive type. If it's bigger than 137GB, it's probably using 40- or 48-bit addressing and you'll be fine up to a few petabytes.See http://www.48bitlba.com/ for more information. Personally, I would avoid the Promise cards. I trust them as far as I can (and have) throw(n) them. Will ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))
Diego Righi wrote: Hi all, I just built a new zfs server for home and, being a long time and avid reader of this forum, I'm going to post my config specs and my benchmarks hoping this could be of some help for others :) http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.jpg http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.txt http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.png http://www.sickness.it/zfspr0nserver.pdf Correct me if I'm wrong: from the benchmark results, I understand that this setup is slow at writing, but fast at reading (and this is perfect for my usage, copying large files once and then accessing only to read them). It also seems that at 128kb it gives the best performances, iirc due to the zfs stripe size (again, correct me if I'm wrong :). I'd happily try any other test, but if you suggest bonnie++ please tell me what's the right version to use, too much of them I really can't understand which to try! tnx :) Classy. +1 for style. ;) benr. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
