[9fans] acme font loading: requesting feedback

[Skip Tavakkolian]

I ran into a situation that makes me think the default order of acme
font loading is wrong. I ran into it on plan9port when trying to
change default fonts to Go fonts with an existing acme.dump but I
think it's applicable to all Plan 9 forks.

I think when explicit -F -f are given, they should have precedence
over acme.dump. The current behavior can be preserved with 'Load'
where the reload can be forced due to buyer's remorse. I think a quick
hack would be to add a flag to rowloadfonts to force the order.

yes/no?

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Re: [9fans] Acme: support spaces in file|dir names

[Nicola Girardi]

On 2023-02-20 19:05, adr wrote:
[snip]

One thing I can't understand is why the text window
is always redrawn completely when the tag line is edited. I'll take a 
look

in the future.


AFAIR from when I looked into it, this behavior was introduced in

commit ba7c22f781dafd30d0b97179c941476639022285
Author: mveety 
Date:   Wed Aug 28 23:01:23 2013 -0400

Added the p9p acme patch the allows multiline tags (thanks rsc and 
lf94).


I think the redraw happens because when you add a character to the tag 
you may need to wrap to a new line.
As a stopgap for myself, I've just removed the call to winresize from 
winsettag1.
In principle one should be able to figure out the width of the text in 
the tag and how many lines are needed, and redraw only if that number 
changes after a character is typed, but I wasn't able to figure out 
where to do this in the code.



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Re: [9fans] Acme: support spaces in file|dir names

[hiro]

> Sorry hiro, I mean that I imported the acme version of 9front to
> my system (based on 9legacy) because it has been updated along the
> plan9port repo.

h, sorry for missing the other direction :D

> One thing I can't understand is why the text window
> is always redrawn completely when the tag line is edited.

yeah, i heard about that one, it's a bit surprising that's still not fixed.
but many people use just sam on 9front and never notice such things.
my memory of acme is fading :)

> Anyway, I remember seeing a version of plan9port with the apps from
> 9front somewhere, I'm surprised you didn't know about it.

yeah in fact i wanted to make sure you don't use that one, bec. really
it never got much care and 9fans/p9p was always it's upstream.

otherwise, i guess there's also the inferno version of acme (i am a
former acme-sac user).

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Re: [9fans] Acme: support spaces in file|dir names

[adr]

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023, hiro wrote:

9front has a p9p version? i was not aware... can you link to it?


Sorry hiro, I mean that I imported the acme version of 9front to
my system (based on 9legacy) because it has been updated along the
plan9port repo. But there are more fixes and improvements that
could be imported (to 9front's acme) from plan9port. This patch
makes 9front's acme able to open files and dirs with spaces in
their names. One thing I can't understand is why the text window
is always redrawn completely when the tag line is edited. I'll take a look
in the future.

Anyway, I remember seeing a version of plan9port with the apps from
9front somewhere, I'm surprised you didn't know about it.

adr.

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Re: [9fans] Acme: support spaces in file|dir names

[hiro]

9front has a p9p version? i was not aware... can you link to it?

On 2/20/23, adr  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> this patch adds code from p9p to support spaces in file or dir
> names. I use the 9front version because it has been mantained, but
> there are more fixes in p9p to be imported.
> 
> adr
> diff -Nur /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.h /sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.h
> --- /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.hMon Jul 11 20:01:08 2022
> +++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.h Mon Feb 20 15:23:42 2023
> @@ -90,6 +90,7 @@
>   void  flushwarnings(void);
>   long  nlcount(Text*, long, long, long*);
>   long  nlcounttopos(Text*, long, long, long);
> +Rune*  parsetag(Window*, int, int*);
> 
> #define   runemalloc(a)   (Rune*)emalloc((a)*sizeof(Rune))
> #define   runerealloc(a, b)   (Rune*)erealloc((a),
> (b)*sizeof(Rune))
> diff -Nur /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/look.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/look.c
> --- /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/look.c   Mon Jul 11 20:01:08 2022
> +++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/look.cMon Feb 20 15:47:24 2023
> @@ -397,9 +397,9 @@
> Runestr
> dirname(Text *t, Rune *r, int n)
> {
> -   Rune *b, c;
> -   uint m, nt;
> -   int slash;
> +   Rune *b;
> +   uint nt;
> +   int slash, i;
>   Runestr tmp;
> 
> b = nil;
> @@ -410,15 +410,13 @@
> goto Rescue;
> if(n>=1 && r[0]=='/')
> goto Rescue;
> -   b = runemalloc(nt+n+1);
> -   bufread(t->w->tag.file, 0, b, nt);
> +   b = parsetag(t->w, n, );
> slash = -1;
> -   for(m=0; m -   c = b[m];
> -   if(c == '/')
> -   slash = m;
> -   if(c==' ' || c=='\t')
> +   for(i--; i >= 0; i--){
> +   if(b[i] == '/'){
> +   slash = i;
> break;
> +   }
> }
> if(slash < 0)
> goto Rescue;
> @@ -502,7 +500,7 @@
> if(nname == -1)
> nname = n;
> for(i=0; i -   if(!isfilec(r[i]))
> +   if(!isfilec(r[i]) && r[i] != ' ')
> goto Isntfile;
> /*
>  * See if it's a file name in <>, and turn that into an include
> diff -Nur /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c
> --- /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c   Mon Jul 11 20:01:08 2022
> +++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.cMon Feb 20 15:20:37 2023
> @@ -109,14 +109,26 @@
> return rr - r;
> }
> 
> +int
> +delrunepos(Window *w)
> +{
> +   Rune *r;
> +   int i;
> +
> +   r = parsetag(w, 0, );
> +   free(r);
> +   i += 2;
> +   if(i >= w->tag.file->nc)
> +   return -1;
> +   return i;
> +}
> +
>   void
>   movetodel(Window *w)
>   {
> int n;
> -
> -   n = tagrunepos(w, delcmd);
> -   free(delcmd);
> -   delcmd = nil;
> +
> +   n = delrunepos(w);
> if(n < 0)
> return;
> moveto(mousectl, addpt(frptofchar(>tag, n), Pt(4,
> w->tag.font->height-4)));
> @@ -141,7 +153,7 @@
> 
> if(!w->tagexpand) {
> /* use just as many lines as needed to show the Del */
> -   n = tagrunepos(w, delcmd);
> +   n = delrunepos(w);
> if(n < 0)
> return 1;
> p = subpt(frptofchar(>tag, n), w->tag.r.min);
> @@ -412,11 +424,7 @@
> 
> /* w must be committed */
> n = w->tag.file->nc;
> -   r = runemalloc(n);
> -   bufread(w->tag.file, 0, r, n);
> -   for(i=0; i -   if(r[i]==' ' || r[i]=='\t')
> -   break;
> +   r = parsetag(w, 0, );
> for(; i if(r[i] == '|')
> break;
> @@ -433,6 +441,38 @@
> textsetselect(>tag, w->tag.q0, w->tag.q1);
> }
> 
> +Rune*
> +parsetag(Window *w, int extra, int *len)
> +{
> +   static Rune Ldelsnarf[] = { ' ', 'D', 'e', 'l', ' ', 'S', 'n', 'a',
> 'r', 'f', 0 };
> +   static Rune Lspacepipe[] = { ' ', '|', 0 };
> +   static Rune Ltabpipe[] = { '\t', '|', 0 };
> +   int i;
> +   Rune *r, *p, *pipe;
> +
> +   r = runemalloc(w->tag.file->nc+extra+1);
> +   bufread(w->tag.file, 0, r, w->tag.file->nc);
> +   r[w->tag.file->nc] = '\0';
> +
> +   /*
> +* " |" or "\t|" ends left half of tag
> +* If we find " Del Snarf" in the left half of the tag
> +* (before the pipe), that ends the file name.
> +*/
> +   pipe = runestrstr(r, Lspacepipe);
> +   if((p = runestrstr(r, Ltabpipe)) != nil && (pipe == nil || p <
> pipe))
> +   pipe = p;
> +   if((p = runestrstr(r, Ldelsnarf)) != nil && (pipe == nil || p <
> pipe))
> +   i = p - r;
> +   else {
> +   for(i=0; itag.file->nc; i++)
> +   if(r[i]==' ' || r[i]=='\t')
> +   break;
> +   }
> +   *len = i;
> +   return r;
> +}
> +
>   void
>   winsettag1(Window *w)
>   {
> @@ -445,12 +485,7 @@
> /* there are races that get us here with stuff in the tag cache, so
> we take extra care to sync it */
> if(w->tag.ncache!=0 || w->tag.file->mod)
> 

[9fans] Acme: support spaces in file|dir names

[adr]

Hi,

this patch adds code from p9p to support spaces in file or dir
names. I use the 9front version because it has been mantained, but
there are more fixes in p9p to be imported.

adr
diff -Nur /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.h /sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.h
--- /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.hMon Jul 11 20:01:08 2022
+++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/fns.h Mon Feb 20 15:23:42 2023
@@ -90,6 +90,7 @@
 void  flushwarnings(void);
 long  nlcount(Text*, long, long, long*);
 long  nlcounttopos(Text*, long, long, long);
+Rune*  parsetag(Window*, int, int*);

 #define   runemalloc(a)   (Rune*)emalloc((a)*sizeof(Rune))
 #define   runerealloc(a, b)   (Rune*)erealloc((a), (b)*sizeof(Rune))
diff -Nur /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/look.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/look.c
--- /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/look.c   Mon Jul 11 20:01:08 2022
+++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/look.cMon Feb 20 15:47:24 2023
@@ -397,9 +397,9 @@
 Runestr
 dirname(Text *t, Rune *r, int n)
 {
-   Rune *b, c;
-   uint m, nt;
-   int slash;
+   Rune *b;
+   uint nt;
+   int slash, i;
   Runestr tmp;

   b = nil;
@@ -410,15 +410,13 @@
   goto Rescue;
   if(n>=1 && r[0]=='/')
   goto Rescue;
-   b = runemalloc(nt+n+1);
-   bufread(t->w->tag.file, 0, b, nt);
+   b = parsetag(t->w, n, );
   slash = -1;
-   for(m=0; m= 0; i--){
+   if(b[i] == '/'){
+   slash = i;
   break;
+   }
   }
   if(slash < 0)
   goto Rescue;
@@ -502,7 +500,7 @@
   if(nname == -1)
   nname = n;
   for(i=0; i, and turn that into an include
diff -Nur /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c
--- /n/9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.c   Mon Jul 11 20:01:08 2022
+++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/wind.cMon Feb 20 15:20:37 2023
@@ -109,14 +109,26 @@
   return rr - r;
 }

+int
+delrunepos(Window *w)
+{
+   Rune *r;
+   int i;
+
+   r = parsetag(w, 0, );
+   free(r);
+   i += 2;
+   if(i >= w->tag.file->nc)
+   return -1;
+   return i;
+}
+
 void
 movetodel(Window *w)
 {
   int n;
- 
-   n = tagrunepos(w, delcmd);

-   free(delcmd);
-   delcmd = nil;
+
+   n = delrunepos(w);
   if(n < 0)
   return;
   moveto(mousectl, addpt(frptofchar(>tag, n), Pt(4, 
w->tag.font->height-4)));
@@ -141,7 +153,7 @@

   if(!w->tagexpand) {
   /* use just as many lines as needed to show the Del */
-   n = tagrunepos(w, delcmd);
+   n = delrunepos(w);
   if(n < 0)
   return 1;
   p = subpt(frptofchar(>tag, n), w->tag.r.min);
@@ -412,11 +424,7 @@

   /* w must be committed */
   n = w->tag.file->nc;
-   r = runemalloc(n);
-   bufread(w->tag.file, 0, r, n);
-   for(i=0; itag, w->tag.q0, w->tag.q1);
 }

+Rune*
+parsetag(Window *w, int extra, int *len)
+{
+   static Rune Ldelsnarf[] = { ' ', 'D', 'e', 'l', ' ', 'S', 'n', 'a', 
'r', 'f', 0 };
+   static Rune Lspacepipe[] = { ' ', '|', 0 };
+   static Rune Ltabpipe[] = { '\t', '|', 0 };
+   int i;
+   Rune *r, *p, *pipe;
+
+   r = runemalloc(w->tag.file->nc+extra+1);
+   bufread(w->tag.file, 0, r, w->tag.file->nc);
+   r[w->tag.file->nc] = '\0';
+
+   /*
+* " |" or "\t|" ends left half of tag
+* If we find " Del Snarf" in the left half of the tag
+* (before the pipe), that ends the file name.
+*/
+   pipe = runestrstr(r, Lspacepipe);
+   if((p = runestrstr(r, Ltabpipe)) != nil && (pipe == nil || p < pipe))
+   pipe = p;
+   if((p = runestrstr(r, Ldelsnarf)) != nil && (pipe == nil || p < pipe))
+   i = p - r;
+   else {
+   for(i=0; itag.file->nc; i++)
+   if(r[i]==' ' || r[i]=='\t')
+   break;
+   }
+   *len = i;
+   return r;
+}
+
 void
 winsettag1(Window *w)
 {
@@ -445,12 +485,7 @@
   /* there are races that get us here with stuff in the tag cache, so we 
take extra care to sync it */
   if(w->tag.ncache!=0 || w->tag.file->mod)
   wincommit(w, >tag);  /* check file name; also guarantees we 
can modify tag contents */
-   old = runemalloc(w->tag.file->nc+1);
-   bufread(w->tag.file, 0, old, w->tag.file->nc);
-   old[w->tag.file->nc] = '\0';
-   for(i=0; itag.file->nc; i++)
-   if(old[i]==' ' || old[i]=='\t')
-   break;
+   old = parsetag(w, 0, );
   if(runeeq(old, i, w->body.file->name, w->body.file->nname) == FALSE){
   textdelete(>tag, 0, i, TRUE);
   textinsert(>tag, 0, w->body.file->name, w->body.file->nname, 
TRUE);
@@ -458,7 +493,6 @@
   old = runemalloc(w->tag.file->nc+1);
   bufread(w->tag.file, 0, old, w->tag.file->nc);
   old[w->tag.file->nc] = '\0';
-   w->tagsafe = 

Re: [9fans] acme & sam text selection and delete deletes extra character

[umbraticus]

Don't forget Esc cuts a selection.

umbraticus

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Re: [9fans] acme & sam text selection and delete deletes extra character

[Ben Huntsman]

Thank you Mark.  That was exactly what I was looking for.

-Ben

From: Mark van Atten 
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 8:57 AM
To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] acme & sam text selection and delete deletes extra 
character

>Just curious, is this by design, or is this a bug?  I'm inclined to think 
> it's by design as it occurs within sam as well.

https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tf778565df277dd77-M396229d3fd3befcd0bcc95df/re2-9fans-home-end-hjkl

Mark.

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Re: [9fans] acme & sam text selection and delete deletes extra character

[michaelian ennis]

The world is a little less interesting without Boyd.

Ian

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[9fans] acme & sam text selection and delete deletes extra character

[Richard Miller]

Hi there-
   Please pardon the dumb question if this has been covered before.  I did some 
brief searches of the archive and couldn't find it...

   I'm running plan9port on macOS.  I noticed that in acme, (and also sam) if I 
select part of a string and p delete, the selection gets deleted and also one 
additional character in front of the selection.  For example, if I type 
"/path/to/file" and double-click file, file gets highlighted, and if I press 
delete, "/file" gets deleted leaving me with "path/to".  This seems 
counter-intuitive as I expected only what I had highlighted to be deleted.

   There is a GitHub issue (#424) https://github.com/9fans/plan9port/issues/424 
filed for this as well.

   Just curious, is this by design, or is this a bug?  I'm inclined to think 
it's by design as it occurs within sam as well.

   As always, thanks!!

-Ben



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Re: [9fans] acme & sam text selection and delete deletes extra character

[Mark van Atten]

>Just curious, is this by design, or is this a bug?  I'm inclined to think 
> it's by design as it occurs within sam as well.

https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tf778565df277dd77-M396229d3fd3befcd0bcc95df/re2-9fans-home-end-hjkl

Mark.

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[9fans] acme & sam text selection and delete deletes extra character

[Ben Huntsman]

Hi there-
   Please pardon the dumb question if this has been covered before.  I did some 
brief searches of the archive and couldn't find it...

   I'm running plan9port on macOS.  I noticed that in acme, (and also sam) if I 
select part of a string and press delete, the selection gets deleted and also 
one additional character in front of the selection.  For example, if I type 
"/path/to/file" and double-click file, file gets highlighted, and if I press 
delete, "/file" gets deleted leaving me with "path/to".  This seems 
counter-intuitive as I expected only what I had highlighted to be deleted.

   There is a GitHub issue (#424) https://github.com/9fans/plan9port/issues/424 
filed for this as well.

   Just curious, is this by design, or is this a bug?  I'm inclined to think 
it's by design as it occurs within sam as well.

   As always, thanks!!

-Ben


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 12:00:02AM +, Stuart Morrow wrote:
> 
> I'm aware. I meant the intended use by the people who designed it. I
> wouldn't call a number pad a pointing device just because it can be
> used as one.
> 

Apologies to Ted Selker, but it's a poor tool that only functions in
accordance with its designer's intent.  I wouldn't call a number pad a
pointing device either, but I see no need for a Cardassian "there are
two buttons" reality-denial session for a pointing device that clearly
has three.

To update my previous reply on this thread, the left mouse button of my
LTRAC trackball suffered from a failed microswitch.  While shopping
around for replacement parts I stumbled across a vendor that carries
several three-or-more button pointing devices.  Content warning for the
faint of heart:  the following page refers to non-mice as 'mouse
products.'  https://www.fentek-ind.com/ergmouse.htm

And for the record, P.I. Engineering will not sell spare parts for the
LTRAC units, but will send you links to Digikey pages to order your own.

khm

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Stuart Morrow]

> That scroll button nonsense is a function of the Windows driver. On all
> Thinkpads the buttons present as a normal three-button mouse, with
> left, middle, and right-click.  Using a better operating system, or
> failing to install the Trackpoint drivers, leads to normal
> functionality.

I'm aware. I meant the intended use by the people who designed it. I
wouldn't call a number pad a pointing device just because it can be
used as one.

> I have never seen a trackpoint user accidentally type 'u', and this is
> coming from someone who has used trackpoints as their primary pointing
> device from the late 1990s until about six months ago.  How exactly did
> you come to this conclusion?  I wonder if this is unique to a particular
> model?  I have at least one of every IBM, Lexmark, or Dolch produced
> trackpoint keyboard, and I'd love to try to reproduce.

It's just something that happens to some of us sometimes.

https://youtu.be/zW-Kwkc13dw?t=904

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 11:09:24PM +, Stuart Morrow wrote:
> On 01/02/2022, Ben Hancock  wrote:
> > as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find
> > you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical
> > mouse?
> 
> A trackpoint isn't a real three-button mouse by Acme's standards. "A
> real three-button mouse" is something that supports one-to-one
> finger-to-button. A trackpoint is a two-button mouse with an
> additional scroll button. It's designed for Windows and OS/2.

That scroll button nonsense is a function of the Windows driver. On all
Thinkpads the buttons present as a normal three-button mouse, with
left, middle, and right-click.  Using a better operating system, or
failing to install the Trackpoint drivers, leads to normal
functionality.  

This is also true of trackpoint-laden keyboards with the sole exception 
of the Lenovo "ThinkPad Compact Keyboard with Trackpoint" family of
USB/Bluetooth models, and thanks to aiju a firmware fix is available to
repair some of those.

> Plus, trackpoint users will often accidentally type 'u', which on Plan
> 9 means you lose what's in your snarf buffer.

I have never seen a trackpoint user accidentally type 'u', and this is
coming from someone who has used trackpoints as their primary pointing
device from the late 1990s until about six months ago.  How exactly did
you come to this conclusion?  I wonder if this is unique to a particular
model?  I have at least one of every IBM, Lexmark, or Dolch produced
trackpoint keyboard, and I'd love to try to reproduce.


khm

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[hiro]

a trackpoint is a 2-handed chording device. clearly it's limited, but
still better than any touchpad (when you are constrained to a laptop
on the go)

On 3/23/22, Stuart Morrow  wrote:
> On 01/02/2022, Ben Hancock  wrote:
>> as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find
>> you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical
>> mouse?
> 
> A trackpoint isn't a real three-button mouse by Acme's standards. "A
> real three-button mouse" is something that supports one-to-one
> finger-to-button. A trackpoint is a two-button mouse with an
> additional scroll button. It's designed for Windows and OS/2.
> 
> IBM-pattern mice (as in scrollpoint and original ThinkCentre) work for
> me. The side walls are slightly off from vertical, for dovetailing*
> into the thumb and outside finger.  (Not relevant, but I've never seen
> it commented on.)  I haven't tried anything else.
> 
> Plus, trackpoint users will often accidentally type 'u', which on Plan
> 9 means you lose what's in your snarf buffer.
> 
> For convenience, direct link to a picture of a "dovetail" joint:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Finished_dovetail.jpg/1920px-Finished_dovetail.jpg
> (since it seems these are named after a different animal in every
> single language)

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Stuart Morrow]

On 01/02/2022, Ben Hancock  wrote:
> as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find
> you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical
> mouse?

A trackpoint isn't a real three-button mouse by Acme's standards. "A
real three-button mouse" is something that supports one-to-one
finger-to-button. A trackpoint is a two-button mouse with an
additional scroll button. It's designed for Windows and OS/2.

IBM-pattern mice (as in scrollpoint and original ThinkCentre) work for
me. The side walls are slightly off from vertical, for dovetailing*
into the thumb and outside finger.  (Not relevant, but I've never seen
it commented on.)  I haven't tried anything else.

Plus, trackpoint users will often accidentally type 'u', which on Plan
9 means you lose what's in your snarf buffer.

For convenience, direct link to a picture of a "dovetail" joint:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Finished_dovetail.jpg/1920px-Finished_dovetail.jpg
(since it seems these are named after a different animal in every
single language)

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[contact]

Happy user of the Contour Rollermouse Red which I use with Acme. You can use it 
two-handed: one hand for cursor movement and one hand for clicking.
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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[hiro]

as a trackpoint fanatic i can tell you:
no, i can't sweep as easily as with a physical mouse.

but if a physical mouse is 10/10, and a smartphone is 1/10, then a
touchpad is 3/10 and a trackpoint is 8/10 for my purposes.

the only thing that makes this more steep is gaming: there the mouse
is much more important, and sometimes reaction times matter, so if
physical mouse is still 10/10, the smartphone and touchpad is
basically unusable 0/10, the trackpoint 3/10, and the only alternative
*still* barely usable, in my books.

the only thing excluded here is those ball mice, i never got used to them.

On 2/2/22, Oleg Finkelshteyn  wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022, at 04:25, Ben Hancock wrote:
>> Do you find you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with
>> a physical mouse?
> 
> can't really say: i'm not a heavy acme user, and i haven't had a mouse in
> years. shinobi does feel pretty close to a thinkpad, so you should be able
> to test with a latter.
> acme feels comfortable to me in my setup, but you should really check
> whether you are fine with having to use both thumbs to chord.

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Oleg Finkelshteyn]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022, at 04:25, Ben Hancock wrote:
> Do you find you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a 
> physical mouse?

can't really say: i'm not a heavy acme user, and i haven't had a mouse in 
years. shinobi does feel pretty close to a thinkpad, so you should be able to 
test with a latter.
acme feels comfortable to me in my setup, but you should really check whether 
you are fine with having to use both thumbs to chord.

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[David Arroyo]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022, at 23:59, Marius Eriksen wrote:
> It’s pricy, but I love the 3dconnexion CAD mouse [1]. It tracks superbly, and 
> the construction quality approaches Apple’s level. 
> 
> [1] https://3dconnexion.com/us/cadmouse/
I use the wireless model and agree it's an excellent mouse. The shape and 
buttons are perfect for me.

Some caveats, though-- it has a "smart scroll" feature which stimulates 
inertial scrolling. I have since learned to like it, but initially you will 
absolutely hate it.

David
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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Marius Eriksen]

It’s pricy, but I love the 3dconnexion CAD mouse [1]. It tracks superbly, and 
the construction quality approaches Apple’s level. 

[1] https://3dconnexion.com/us/cadmouse/

> 
> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 03:47:48PM +1100, Rob Pike wrote:
>> I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The
>> label reads
>> 
>> 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA
>> 
>> And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally)
>> 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all
>> labeled IBM.
>> 
>> -rob
> 
> Lenovo wasn't as much of a stickler for nomenclature as IBM; I ran into
> all kinds of label variants -- when I worked at IBM I used to snag these
> when I could.  They were also labeled 'ThinkPlus Optical Mouse' for a
> while, when bundled with a computer.  Useful information for keeping
> them alive can be found here:  http://www.ibmfiles.com/pages/scrollpoint.htm
> 
> khm
> 

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[David Leimbach via 9fans]

I use a big heavy trackball. Kensington pro trackball is pricey but you get 
four buttons and a scroll ring.

Got my first one well over 10 years ago and it’s still my daily driver. I have 
a second wireless one on a Mac. The wired one is better overall if you can get 
them. The wireless one can work with a USB dongle (tiny) or Bluetooth.

Again, they’re a bit expensive but I love the four quadrant buttons too much 
and this thing has survived moving across the country a few times with my less 
than wonderful packing skills.

Lots of great advice in this thread though! Good luck!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 28, 2022, at 3:04 AM, adr  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022, umbrati...@prosimetrum.com wrote:
> 
>> I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big
> 
> That's funny, it's the very same I was looking at.
> 
> aliexpress.com/item/1005001848991454.html
> 
>> The scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too.
> 
> Three button mice with lateral scrollwheel are even harder to
> find. That's why I ended up with this cheap one:
> 
> aliexpress.com/item/404785639.html
> 
> It's not so bad, the plastic feels a little cheaper than one from
> hp or ibm but cost less than half the price... and it is very
> accurate, really.  It enters sleep mode to save battery (you can't
> disable this) and the only way to wake it is clicking one of the
> buttons (not the wheel). Now the funny part: it sends the click to
> the host. A nightmare.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback,
> adr.

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Ben Hancock]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 10:33:38PM +, Oleg Finkelshteyn wrote:

for a little change of pace, my only desktop input device is
https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi


Hey, that's neat! I've heard good things about the Shinobi on the MK
forums -- I, too, am an enthusiast :) I actually own a couple Thinkpads
as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find
you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical
mouse? 


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Oleg Finkelshteyn]

for a little change of pace, my only desktop input device is 
https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi

it's a fairly faithful recreation of 
https://support.lenovo.com/solutions/pd005137-thinkpad-usb-keyboard-with-trackpoint-overview
 but with mechanical keys and other accommodations one expects from a 
contemporary 'enthusiast' mechanical keyboard.

despite the funny look of the mouse buttons (repurposed keycaps), the whole 
trackpoint setup is very ergonomic and chording works well (albeit requiring 
both thumbs, but unless you are using the computer one-handed they should 
already be close by on the spacebar).

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[adr]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2022, Steve Simon wrote:

search ebay for beatus mouse


Thanks, it's funny the three of us were talking about the same mouse.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Beatus-Button-Perfect-Buttons-Scroll/dp/B07CZ1B7H3/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3VAGF8O45TNZW

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333469354375?epid=9032602165=item4da4528987:g:CwsAAOSwTh1eJWZm


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Steve Simon]

search ebay for beatus mouse

On 29 Jan 2022, at 1:22 am, adr  wrote:

Do you know where to buy the wired model?


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[fijal]

I got used to... No idea about wired model, even this wireless was bought "via" 
my friend. Hope you'll find one.
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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[adr]

fijal wrote:

I'm very happy with this one:  http://www.hao1885.com/products_desc.asp?id=413


That's the same I was talking about. Don't you feel annoyed when
you have to wake it? Do you know where to buy the wired model?

hao1885.com/products_desc.asp?id=414

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Tony Mendoza]

+1 for the Evoluent Vert mouse.  I got two.
T

On 1/27/2022 at 10:57 PM, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:Quoth Kurt H Maier
via 9fans :
> 
> The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus
a
> scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2.

This one is my personal favorite.
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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

For over a decade I have been using the soon-discontinued Contour
mouse. I have tried both the wired and the wireless versions, but
the wireless version has too much latency for me, although I am
particularly sensitive to latency, so YMMV.

I have been using the exact same unit since I got it, it has been
very reliable for me, however I know for a fact that the newer
versions of the mouse, even though they superficially appear to be
the same are not as reliable. They changed the plastic used in some
internal shaft and that seems to break quite often. Many of my
friends have broken Contour mice that fail in the exact same way.
That internal shaft breaks.

One friend managed to get hold of a bag of spare shafts. I suspect
they could be easily 3D printed, or replaced with a metal shaft.

In any case, since Contour announced they discontinued the model,
I ordered about 30 mice from retailers that lied about having stock
stock. I got three. With these three, I have in total about ten
spares, which I hope will last me for a while.

-- 
Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Charles Forsyth]

I've been happy with the Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Mouse 3600
bearing
in mind that I'm using 9vx on a Dell as my terminal.
I should probably see if it can be made to work on an rpi

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 12:45, Steve Simon  wrote:

> I am a long term sam user and a three button mouse, but I also like the
> ease of navigation of a scroll wheel.
> 
> I use a Beatus mouse - three real buttons and a scroll wheel on the side
> for your thumb.
> Sadly they are only made right handed and they are a little small for my
> hand but they are still the best
> I have found.
> 
> Google will find them quite easily.
> 
> -Steve
> 

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Steve Simon]

I am a long term sam user and a three button mouse, but I also like the ease of 
navigation of a scroll wheel.

I use a Beatus mouse - three real buttons and a scroll wheel on the side for 
your thumb.
Sadly they are only made right handed and they are a little small for my hand 
but they are still the best
I have found.

Google will find them quite easily.

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 08:14:44PM +1300, umbrati...@prosimetrum.com wrote:
> > small ones seem to me like a pain to point, and the large ones look
> > like hard to make chords with the big ball in the middle. Could you
> > share your experience?
> 
> I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big
> ball in the middle category.  Honestly, most of the time I
> click/chord with my left hand on the thinkpad's trackpad
> buttons while rolling the ball with my right hand, but
> chording with the trackball buttons is also fine.  The
> scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too.

My pointing device on the desktop is an L-TRAC trackball, currently sold
by xkeys.com.  It's definitely in the 'big ball in the middle' category
but the buttons are mostly huge enough to make up for it -- I've never
found myself straining to reach anything, but I will admit the extension
ports allowing more buttons to be scattered around the desktop is a nice
bonus.  I don't recommend the LED-lit models, as they're brighter than
the goddamn sun, and trackball itself is translucent so it just shines
like a beacon.  I replaced my ball with a 9-ball to mitigate the glare.

khm

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[fijal]

I'm very happy with this one:  http://www.hao1885.com/products_desc.asp?id=413

Cheers
fijal
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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[adr]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022, umbrati...@prosimetrum.com wrote:


I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big


That's funny, it's the very same I was looking at.

aliexpress.com/item/1005001848991454.html


The scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too.


Three button mice with lateral scrollwheel are even harder to
find. That's why I ended up with this cheap one:

aliexpress.com/item/404785639.html

It's not so bad, the plastic feels a little cheaper than one from
hp or ibm but cost less than half the price... and it is very
accurate, really.  It enters sleep mode to save battery (you can't
disable this) and the only way to wake it is clicking one of the
buttons (not the wheel). Now the funny part: it sends the click to
the host. A nightmare.

Thanks for the feedback,
adr.

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[sirjofri]

Hello all,

I just quickly want to share my experience, although I haven't used any 
real three buttons mouse in the last ten years.


For my laptop system I really love the (older) IBM/lenovo trackpoint. It 
has three physical buttons below the keyboard and I can reach them easily 
with my thumbs. I'm sure many of you know this experience.


It's a different story on newer lenovo laptops (the ones with the modern 
keyboard) where the point feels sluggish and tends to drift, which is 
extremely annoying. Also it's deeper and it doesn't feel like you control 
the joystick.


For my desktop environment I prefer the cheapest usable wired vertical 
mouse with scrollwheel (20 Euros)[1]. It's almost one of the first search 
results on amazon and it looks like many brands just use the exact same 
model from the same (chinese?) manufacturer, although there are slight 
differences in quality and feel.


I can click on the scrollwheel to create a MB2 event, which is fine for 
me. I have to say I have used blender for years and am using Unreal 
Engine as a job, so I'm used to using the scrollwheel.


The cheap vertical mice usually have two additional buttons at the thumb 
side in the upper part of the devices. They are mapped to 
forward/backward, but they're irrelevant for any 9 experience. I also 
have another wireless vertical mouse where these buttons are in the 
bottom part.


In my experience it's better to have them in the upper part since you 
grab the mouse for dragging them around while repositioning. However, 
it's just weird holding the mouse in the air while pressing one of the 
buttons in the lower part. It's like pushing a button downwards while 
keeping the device up, against gravity. However, that's just my personal 
opinion. I barely use the device as I'm mostly in an office-like 
situation and for mobile the trackpoint has more benefits.


sirjofri

[1] if you try to get one of these make sure to not get the very 
cheapest. When I was looking the first I bought was 15 euros and it broke 
after half a year or so, the next one I got for 20 euros was fine and 
it's still in use after years. The material is not the best and feels 
cheap but I guess that's what you get for this price.


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[umbraticus]

> small ones seem to me like a pain to point, and the large ones look
> like hard to make chords with the big ball in the middle. Could you
> share your experience?

I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big
ball in the middle category.  Honestly, most of the time I
click/chord with my left hand on the thinkpad's trackpad
buttons while rolling the ball with my right hand, but
chording with the trackball buttons is also fine.  The
scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too.

umbraticus

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[adr]

Trackballs also often have more than two real buttons.
umbraticus


The good 3 buttons mouses are vanishing, I've been thinking on
giving a try to a trackball for a while. The problem is that the
small ones seem to me like a pain to point, and the large ones look
like hard to make chords with the big ball in the middle. Could you
share your experience?

adr.

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Rob Pike]

Sorry, yes, it's MO09BOA on mine too. Small print, old eyes.

The bottom of my IBM-branded one has the same model number.

-rob


On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 4:16 PM Bakul Shah  wrote:

> Mine says MO09BOA. It has a Lenovo logo
> and the scroll thingy is lighted blue.  It is not
> a wheel, more like a single axis trackpoint.
>
> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Rob Pike  wrote:
>
> I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The
> label reads
>
> 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA
>
> And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally)
> 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all
> labeled IBM.
>
> -rob
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote:
>> > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made
>> > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted
>> > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button.
>> 
>> I should specify:  the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two
>> buttons and a round pointing device in between.  The Scrollpoint II is
>> the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick
>> behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and
>> mechanical configurations.  The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also
>> available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version
>> is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great.
>> 
>> khm
>> 
>
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Bakul Shah]

Mine says MO09BOA. It has a Lenovo logo
and the scroll thingy is lighted blue.  It is not
a wheel, more like a single axis trackpoint.

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Rob Pike  > wrote:
> 
> I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The 
> label reads
> 
> 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA
> 
> And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) 
> 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all 
> labeled IBM.
> 
> -rob
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net 
> > wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote:
> > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made
> > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted
> > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button.
> 
> I should specify:  the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two
> buttons and a round pointing device in between.  The Scrollpoint II is
> the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick
> behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and
> mechanical configurations.  The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also
> available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version
> is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great.
> 
> khm
> 
> 
> --
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>  
> 
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> 
> 9fans  / 9fans / see discussions 
>  + participants 
>  + delivery options 
> Permalink 
> 

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Alex Musolino]

Quoth o...@eigenstate.org:
> Quoth Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>:
> > 
> > The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus a
> > scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2.
> 
> This one is my personal favorite.

I have two of these and they're quite good, though quite expensive
new.  I bought the second one "new, open box" for well under half the
then-current new price.

My only complaint would be that the wired version isn't massive
enough.  I plan to weight them down a bit with some plumbum.


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Ben Hancock]

On 1/27/22 20:47, Rob Pike wrote:
I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. 
The label reads


31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA

And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) 
3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all 
labeled IBM.


Thanks very much for the recommendation -- and the extra due diligence! :D

I appreciate all the suggestions. Looks like there's some good options 
floating around out there. I'll see what I can pick up.


Cheers,

- Ben

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 03:47:48PM +1100, Rob Pike wrote:
> I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The
> label reads
> 
> 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA
> 
> And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally)
> 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all
> labeled IBM.
> 
> -rob

Lenovo wasn't as much of a stickler for nomenclature as IBM; I ran into
all kinds of label variants -- when I worked at IBM I used to snag these
when I could.  They were also labeled 'ThinkPlus Optical Mouse' for a
while, when bundled with a computer.  Useful information for keeping
them alive can be found here:  http://www.ibmfiles.com/pages/scrollpoint.htm

khm


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[ori]

Quoth Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>:
> 
> The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus a
> scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2.

This one is my personal favorite.


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[umbraticus]

Trackballs also often have more than two real buttons.

umbraticus

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Rob Pike]

I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The
label reads

31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA

And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally)
3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all
labeled IBM.

-rob


On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote:
> > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made
> > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted
> > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button.
> 
> I should specify:  the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two
> buttons and a round pointing device in between.  The Scrollpoint II is
> the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick
> behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and
> mechanical configurations.  The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also
> available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version
> is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great.
> 
> khm
> 

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote:
> The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made
> with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted
> Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button.

I should specify:  the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two
buttons and a round pointing device in between.  The Scrollpoint II is
the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick
behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and
mechanical configurations.  The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also
available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version
is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great.

khm


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 07:48:15PM -0800, Ben Hancock wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good 
> mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations 
> aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be 
> willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth 
> of options that have a true middle button these days.
> 
> I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs 
> that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it 
> feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently 
> tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews 
> that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice 
> mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer.
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> - Ben

Many of us have had success with the Contour mice, both their
soon-discontinued 'Contour' model, available in various sizes, and their
'Unimouse' adjustable model.  HP model DY651A is a cheaper option,
but it's getting hard to find.  The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made
with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted
Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button.

For a portable option, Lenovo sells a convertible 'Yoga' series of
wireless mice, which have two mechanical buttons and a touchpad-style
scrolling section in between; on all of these that I've tested, tapping
the scroll panel sends a middle click, and they support tap-and-hold as
you would expect.  I haven't tested some of the newer ones, and there's
always the danger some product manager got 'creative' instead of just
selling a useful product.

The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus a
scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2.

Finally, the Logitech G series of gaming mice don't have separate middle
click -- they use the wheel for that -- but they frequently have other
buttons which can be configured to serve as button 2, and the
configuration software writes this setting to the device, so you don't
need weird driver support when you plug it into a real computer.

khm

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Mark van Atten]

HP DY651A, e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/234392830458

I bought three of them some ten years ago, and they are still working
perfectly. It seems the model is no longer in production. The original
price was very low. I seem to recall it was also sold as an IBM mouse.

Mark.

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[John Floren]

My daily mouse is a Logitech 3-button mouse plugged into a PS2-USB adapter. 
Obviously they're not making them anymore but I've managed to acquire a bunch 
over the years. It's sturdy and works fine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384628597228

john

 Original Message 
On Jan 27, 2022, 7:48 PM, Ben Hancock wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good
> mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations
> aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be
> willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth
> of options that have a true middle button these days.
> 
> I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs
> that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it
> feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently
> tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews
> that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice
> mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer.
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> - Ben
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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Rob Pike]

LENOVO SCROLLPOINT MOUSE - USB. I have a few of them.
None of mine have ever broken or needed maintenance.

Not sure they're made any more, and the IBM logo on this:
https://www.exxactcorp.com/Lenovo-31P7405-E1272118
may be indicative, but I've been using mine for 20+ years with
great satisfaction. And there is no wheel noise to annoy me.

Note that mine has an actual middle button, and although
it's hard to see from the picture, the text implies this version
does too. It may well be the same.


-rob


On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:49 PM Ben Hancock  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good
> mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations
> aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be
> willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth
> of options that have a true middle button these days.
> 
> I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs
> that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it
> feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently
> tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews
> that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice
> mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer.
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> - Ben

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[9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Ben Hancock]

Hi all,

Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good 
mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations 
aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be 
willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth 
of options that have a true middle button these days.


I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs 
that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it 
feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently 
tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews 
that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice 
mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer.


Many thanks in advance!

- Ben

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[9fans] Acme IRC Basic SASL Support

[Connor Taffe]

I took Russ’s Irc client at https://swtch.com/irc/  and 
added enough SASL PLAIN
support to access Freenode so that I could use it as my IRC client.

It’s available at https://github.com/cptaffe/airc 
.

I documented the flow as best I could in this commit 

 , and I’d appreciate constructive
feedback on how to improve the implementation or add more comprehensive SASL 
support.
My initial idea was to support CertFP, but I had difficulty getting tlsClient 
in libsec to work,
and reading through the code I’m not sure it supports sending the client 
certificate
(there’s a bit which indicates it always sends an empty cert).

Another peculiarity is that mk all fails with a symbol error because it builds 
Irc.o and irc.o
from irc.c on macOS, I believe this is to do with case-insensitivity in Apple’s 
FS. To get
around this, just run the 9l command by hand without Irc.o.

After mk install, running "Irc -n nick -p passed irc.freenode.net 
" should attempt SASL PLAIN.

Speaking of IRC, is there a plan9port IRC channel?
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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[pdt]

[9f...@hamnavoe.com]
> if (~ $dests *9fans@9fans.net*) {
> sed '1,/^$/s/^(From: 
> .*)/\1<9f...@hamnavoe.com>/' | upas/send $options $dests
> exit
> }

Testing this.  Please ignore!


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[pdt]

[9f...@hamnavoe.com]
> if (~ $dests *9fans@9fans.net*) {
> sed '1,/^$/s/^(From: 
> .*)/\1<9f...@hamnavoe.com>/' | upas/send $options $dests
> exit
> }

Testing this.  Please ignore!


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[sirjofri]

I adjusted my pipefrom and added a default headers file, so lets see
if this mail arrives with the correct sender address.

sirjofri


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[Richard Miller]

> Yes -- acme Mail does set its own From lines,

That's overridden by the From: in /mail/box/$user/headers if there is one.


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[ori]

Quoth pouya+lists.9f...@nohup.io:
> I should take a closer look but I seem to recall some special handling
> of From: lines in acme Mail.

Yes -- acme Mail does set its own From lines,
among other things that annoyed me.

(That's why I rewrote it as Nail: less cleverness,
less code, and thread sorting of messages:
http://shithub.us/git/ori/Nail/HEAD/info.html)


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[Romano]

> Quoth pouya+lists.9f...@nohup.io:
>> Upas/marshal already supports that by setting the upasname env
>> variable, or did you mean to have it as a flag or taken from the
>> headers in the input?
> 
> I was thinking that
> 
> echo From: foo; message | upas/marshal
> 
> should be roughly equivalent to:
> 
> upasname=foo
> echo message | upas/marshal
> 
> but it may be better to just use a pipefrom.

Take what I say with a big a grain of salt--I set it up months ago and
haven't considered it again after Ori's re-work in 9front on
mail-related things.  I am not using my own smtp server, but call out
to different ones based on the address I'm using.

For my setup, I had to set both the env var and add the 'From:' line,
IIRC.  I have wrapper scripts that I can click on to send an e-mail
while in Acme, specifying which account I want to send from.  It's
probably more convoluted than it needs to be, but I just wanted to get
mail working on 9front.  So in my wrapper script I setup upasname env
var and also start off the message with a 'From:' line:
upasname=mya...@example.com
echo From: Myname '<'^$upasname^'>' >/tmp/from.$upasname
mailfrom $upasname $*

The last call to mailfrom calls /bin/mailfrom, which contains this:
#!/bin/rc
upasname=$1
shift
if (~ $winid '')
err=`{echo -n Cannot find window id}
if (! test -d /mnt/acme/^$winid)
err=`{echo -n usage: Must be run in Acme}
if (~ $upasname '')
err=`{echo -n usage: Must set upasname}
if (! ~ $err '') {
echo $err
status=$err
exit
}
if (! test -f /tmp/from.$upasname)
echo From: $upasname >/tmp/from.$upasname
cat /tmp/from.$upasname /mnt/acme/$winid/body | upas/marshal -8 $*
rm /tmp/from.$upasname

/mail/lib/fromfiles contains one line, which refers to
/mail/lib/from.me:
from.me

/mail/lib/from.me has lines with tab-separated values between the
e-mail from address I use ($upasname) and the mail account
corresponding to it:
myacct+bi...@example.com  myacco...@smtp1.example.com
mya...@example.com  myotheracco...@smtp2.example.com

In /mail/lib/remotemail, I have cases for the different smtp servers:
#!/bin/rc
shift
sender=$1
shift
addr=$1
shift
fd=`{/bin/upas/aliasmail -f $sender}
switch($fd){
case smtp1.example.com
addr=(-u user1 tcp!^$fd^!ssmtp)
case smtp2.example.com
addr=(-u user2 tcp!^$fd^!ssmtp)
case *.*
;
case *
fd=your.domain
}
exec /bin/upas/smtp -a -t -h $fd $addr $sender $*

Hopefully what I wrote above is more helpful than not.

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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[ori]

Quoth pouya+lists.9f...@nohup.io:
> Upas/marshal already supports that by setting the upasname env
> variable, or did you mean to have it as a flag or taken from the
> headers in the input?

I was thinking that

echo From: foo; message | upas/marshal

should be roughly equivalent to:

upasname=foo
echo message | upas/marshal

but it may be better to just use a pipefrom.


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[pouya+lists . 9fans]

Thank you all for your feedback.

I have combined my answers to a few responses below.

> [pouya+lists.9f...@nohup.io]
>> I was looking for a way to send emails from different addresses with
>> Acme Mail

[9f...@hamnavoe.com]
> That's what /mail/box/$user/pipefrom is for. (Not specific to acme.)
> 

Thank you.  This seems much more elegant than my hack as a general
solution.

[o...@eigenstate.org]
> The ability is useful, but the code to do it would be better
> placed in upas/marshal.

Upas/marshal already supports that by setting the upasname env
variable, or did you mean to have it as a flag or taken from the
headers in the input?

[sirjofri+ml-9f...@sirjofri.de]
> Please double-check this. When I add a From: in acme Mail it's always 
> converted to a destination address.

I should take a closer look but I seem to recall some special handling
of From: lines in acme Mail.


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[alex]

> Please double-check this. When I add a From: in acme Mail it's always 
> converted to a destination address.

Perhaps that's a quirk of acme Mail?  Works for me with Nail and
marshal(1).


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[sirjofri]

28.01.2021 11:09:20 Alex Musolino :

I'd love this functionality in marshal. Would it then also work in 

Nail?

(No crazy filtering in Nail?)

Would a potential marshal patch be applied to 9front? I think it's a 

nice

feature and prevents setting $upasname before starting [MN]ail. Also I
don't think it would change existing behavior too much.


Seems it's already in 9front.  I can just write my own custom From:
header with Nail or marshal(1).  I've never had much reason to change
it so I just put the From: header you see in this message in
/mail/box/alex/headers.


Please double-check this. When I add a From: in acme Mail it's always 
converted to a destination address.


sirjofri

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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[Alex Musolino]

> I'd love this functionality in marshal. Would it then also work in Nail? 
> (No crazy filtering in Nail?)
> 
> Would a potential marshal patch be applied to 9front? I think it's a nice 
> feature and prevents setting $upasname before starting [MN]ail. Also I 
> don't think it would change existing behavior too much.

Seems it's already in 9front.  I can just write my own custom From:
header with Nail or marshal(1).  I've never had much reason to change
it so I just put the From: header you see in this message in
/mail/box/alex/headers.


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[Richard Miller]

> I was looking for a way to send emails from different addresses with
> Acme Mail

That's what /mail/box/$user/pipefrom is for. (Not specific to acme.)

For example, my pipefrom includes this:

if (~ $dests *9fans@9fans.net*) {
sed '1,/^$/s/^(From: .*)/\1<9f...@hamnavoe.com>/' 
| upas/send $options $dests
exit
}

If I want to do a one-off send from an alias, I edit /mail/box/$user/headers 
temporarily
to add a From: line.


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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[sirjofri]

Hey ori,

I'd love this functionality in marshal. Would it then also work in Nail? 
(No crazy filtering in Nail?)


Would a potential marshal patch be applied to 9front? I think it's a nice 
feature and prevents setting $upasname before starting [MN]ail. Also I 
don't think it would change existing behavior too much.


sirjofri

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Re: [9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[ori]

Quoth pouya+lists.9f...@nohup.io:
> I was looking for a way to send emails from different addresses with
> Acme Mail, as I use + address suffixes to sort incoming mail and
> occasionally need to send emails from the same (e.g.  to this mailing
> list).  Not finding a convenient way, I committed a bad hack to
> include an optional From: line in the header of outgoing messages.
> It's available at
> 
> 9p.io/sources/contrib/pdt/acme/mail
> 
> in case someone might find it useful (or be kind enough to tell me
> this is not the right way to do it).
> 

The ability is useful, but the code to do it would be better
placed in upas/marshal.


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[9fans] Acme Mail editable from address

[pouya+lists . 9fans]

I was looking for a way to send emails from different addresses with
Acme Mail, as I use + address suffixes to sort incoming mail and
occasionally need to send emails from the same (e.g.  to this mailing
list).  Not finding a convenient way, I committed a bad hack to
include an optional From: line in the header of outgoing messages.
It's available at

9p.io/sources/contrib/pdt/acme/mail

in case someone might find it useful (or be kind enough to tell me
this is not the right way to do it).

Pouya



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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[Stuart Morrow]

a.k.a. twitalics

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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[Ethan Gardener]

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020, at 6:27 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> 
> It does mean that acme needs some way to extend its grasp of
> delimiters into the extended fonts.

How about just masking off the top few bits when checking for delimiters? Not 
really a clean solution, but certainly simple. It would mean some long numbers 
in subfont files. If we use the top 4 bits:
0x1000 0x101f /mnt/font/MyriadPro-It/36a/x.bit
That doesn't look as bad as I thought it would.

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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[Lucio De Re]

On 7/22/20, Russ Cox  wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:22 PM Anthony Martin  wrote:
>
>> Russ, what did you do to that poor little Acme?! ☺
>>
>> Did you take the less daunting route using
>>
>>  - a combined font file with shapes for normal, italic, bold, etc. and
>>  - a filter to offset runes into "planes" for each font shape?
>>
>
> Yes, that's what I did. Completely awful - the text being displayed isn't
> usable as text. You can tell because when I double-click on the modified
> text acme doesn't know where the word boundaries are and ends up
> highlighting across punctuation that it normally wouldn't.

Remembering a discussion on 9fans where I suggested that capital
letters ought to be a different font, not a unique glyph (Russian, for
example, I believe just changes the font size, which we know is a
different font), I think Russ's is an excellent solution, given those
8 bits between 24 and 32 that one can abuse for the purpose.

It does mean that acme needs some way to extend its grasp of
delimiters into the extended fonts. Solving that without resorting to
a total separation between input and rendering, would be a winner, but
I am not competent enough to know if it is even remotely possible.

Incidentally, I opted for a tag line that looks like this:

 "... Snarf Undo Put  |Fmt |q |f78 look |b |e Font"

where I use "b" and "e" /bin commands to generate time stamps in my
"notepad" document. The details don't seem worth going into, "q", if I
remember right, is straight out of Russ's $home/bin/rc from years back
(with "g" which I have yet to enhance correctly to work on ".go"
directories). I got my inspiration remembering that a friend and
colleague (Windows user) adopted single letter command for all sorts
of shortcuts he memorised and even changed in different contexts.

The temptation to add a vertical edge to each acme window with a
single letter in little blocks - lower case and possibly capitals - is
only resisted by my reluctance to tackle a task I may not be
sufficiently competent to complete.

And for other ".go" developers, how many of you have found renaming a
module from ".go" to ".no" a practical approach to get it,
temporarily, perhaps, out of the way of the compiler?

Lucio.

PS: Sorry about the off-topic diversion. I do happen to be marvelling
over fonts among many other distractions from my day job. I still
don't quite have a proper understanding, so I get odd results when I
try to do anything creative,  but not everything is a failure,
thankfully.

PPS: Like Forsyth, I like the io/fs idea. I like "generics" a lot
less, and I find go modules (sorry, Russ) quite incomprehensible
.

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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[Rob Pike]

I see, yes. Well, that's not too terrible.

-rob


On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:40 PM  wrote:

> > I don't understand that. Acme knows the characters' location or it
> couldn't
> > draw them. Are you sure it's not just the frame library's lousy handling
> of
> > italic fonts?
> 
> Unless I'm misunderstanding how this works, ',' (0x2c) gets mangled
> to something like 0x10002c.
> 
> So, acme knows the location, but not the character types. That means
> 'foo,bar,baz' with a mangled ',' codepoint would treat ',' as a word
> character instead of a separator. Double clicking within foo would
> select [foo,bar,baz] rather than just foo.
> 

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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[ori]

> I don't understand that. Acme knows the characters' location or it couldn't
> draw them. Are you sure it's not just the frame library's lousy handling of
> italic fonts?

Unless I'm misunderstanding how this works, ',' (0x2c) gets mangled
to something like 0x10002c.

So, acme knows the location, but not the character types. That means
'foo,bar,baz' with a mangled ',' codepoint would treat ',' as a word
character instead of a separator. Double clicking within foo would
select [foo,bar,baz] rather than just foo.


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Re: [9fans] Acme fonts

[Rob Pike]

>
> *You can tell because when I double-click on the modified text acme
> doesn't know where the word boundaries are and ends up highlighting across
> punctuation that it normally wouldn't.*


I don't understand that. Acme knows the characters' location or it couldn't
draw them. Are you sure it's not just the frame library's lousy handling of
italic fonts?

-rob

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[9fans] Acme fonts

[Anthony Martin]

[cc -golang-nuts, +9fans]

> io/fs draft design
>  - Video: https://golang.org/s/draft-iofs-video

Russ, what did you do to that poor little Acme?! ☺

Did you take the less daunting route using

 - a combined font file with shapes for normal, italic, bold, etc. and
 - a filter to offset runes into "planes" for each font shape?

Or did you modify Acme to support some sort of rich text mark-up?

Cheers,
  Anthony

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Re: [9fans] Acme: look for text in tags

[Skip Tavakkolian]

from inside acme win (rc) session:

% grep channel.c /mnt/acme/[1-9]*/tag
/mnt/acme/70/tag:/sys/src/libthread/channel.c Del Snarf | Look



On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 6:12 AM Yuning Feng 
wrote:

> Is there a way to look for text in tags?
>
> My instinct was to type in the topmost tag, then perform a button-3
> click. It did not work.
>
> A round-about way is to execute
>
>  <9p read acme/index
>
> and look for it there (using plan9port, much appreciated if I can be
> directed to the right place to ask if this is not). The drawback is
> that this needs to be done every time the tags have changed.
>
> At the moment, button-3 click in the topmost tag does not seem to do
> anything. It would be good if it could be interpreted as looking for
> text in tags, if that fits into the mechanism of the editor.
>
> Yuning
>
>

Re: [9fans] Acme: look for text in tags

[Patrick Marchand]

Hi,

On 08/21, Yuning Feng wrote:
> Is there a way to look for text in tags?
>
> My instinct was to type in the topmost tag, then perform a button-3
> click. It did not work.
>
> A round-about way is to execute
>
>  <9p read acme/index
Not bad, just put wrap it in a script maybe ? I wonder if the plumber
has a way of knowing if a message comes from the tag bar.

>
> At the moment, button-3 click in the topmost tag does not seem to do
> anything. It would be good if it could be interpreted as looking for
> text in tags, if that fits into the mechanism of the editor.
Personally I've always felt like it would be nicer if a Look or Edit (without X 
or Y) in the tag bar of a column (or the top bar), would perform the operation 
on all buffers contained in the column (or all windows).

Would make for an easy mouse based way of doing an operation on
multiple buffers.

Re: [9fans] Acme resize bug

[Ethan Gardener]

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018, at 10:22 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
> Hello 9fans,
> 
> I've noticed that sometimes when resizing acme columns there is a
> strip left at the bottom that doesn't get redrawn.
> It's a bit hard to notice with the default colours, but changing it up
> makes it more obvious.
> I was able to fix it with this the following patch but am not sure if
> this is the best way to go about fixing it.
> 
> diff -u /dist/clean/plan9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c 
> /sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c
> --- /dist/clean/plan9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c Thu Nov  1 15:02:44 2018
> +++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c Thu Nov  1 15:38:53 2018
> @@ -204,6 +204,7 @@
>   draw(screen, r2, display->black, nil, ZP);
>   r1.min.y = r2.max.y;
>   r1.min.y = winresize(w, r1, FALSE);
> + draw(screen, r1, textcols[BACK], nil, ZP);
>   }
>   c->r = r;
>  }

That will work, but that strip which doesn't get redrawn is also where Acme 
won't see the mouse as being in any window or tag.  Since it's sometimes useful 
to see it, you might want to draw it in display->back or display->white, I 
guess.  If one of those is already your background color i guess you'll need a 
new global pointer for a new color, or maybe use an existing color which 
happens to be subtly different.  

I'm not posting my code, my brain switches off half-way through finding out how 
to do it, and then I forget what I've done until I want to post it here and 
look it up...

[9fans] Acme resize bug

[Jacob Moody]

Hello 9fans,

I've noticed that sometimes when resizing acme columns there is a
strip left at the bottom that doesn't get redrawn.
It's a bit hard to notice with the default colours, but changing it up
makes it more obvious.
I was able to fix it with this the following patch but am not sure if
this is the best way to go about fixing it.

diff -u /dist/clean/plan9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c
--- /dist/clean/plan9front/sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c Thu Nov  1 15:02:44 2018
+++ /sys/src/cmd/acme/cols.c Thu Nov  1 15:38:53 2018
@@ -204,6 +204,7 @@
  draw(screen, r2, display->black, nil, ZP);
  r1.min.y = r2.max.y;
  r1.min.y = winresize(w, r1, FALSE);
+ draw(screen, r1, textcols[BACK], nil, ZP);
  }
  c->r = r;
 }

Happy New Year,
Moody

Re: [9fans] acme under plan9port : made to work?

[Skip Tavakkolian]

It doesn't emulate 9P (protocol); it is in fact the Plan 9 implementation.
The fan-in/fan-out of 9p connection is done by 9pserve (src/cmd/9pserve.c,
partially emulating the Plan 9 mnt driver.  Servers publish a 9p endpoint,
and 9pserve is used to let multiple clients to establish 9p connections to
that server.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 10:02 AM Dan Cross  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 11:43 AM Mayuresh Kathe  wrote:
>
>> i apologise up-front for asking this on 9fans, but, how is acme and
>> plumber and all it's utilities (including upas) made to work under
>> non-plan9 systems via plan9port; on say something like linux or even mac
>> os x?
>>
>> do they have some kind of user-level library which emulates 9p?
>>
>
> That's exactly right.
>
> - Dan C.
>
>

Re: [9fans] acme under plan9port : made to work?

[Calvin Morrison]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 at 11:44, Mayuresh Kathe  wrote:
>
> i apologise up-front for asking this on 9fans, but, how is acme and
> plumber and all it's utilities (including upas) made to work under
> non-plan9 systems via plan9port; on say something like linux or even mac
> os x?
>
> do they have some kind of user-level library which emulates 9p?
>
> ~mayuresh

take a look plan9port/src/lib9p/

also take a look at libixp:

http://repo.cat-v.org/libixp/

Re: [9fans] acme under plan9port : made to work?

[Dan Cross]

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 11:43 AM Mayuresh Kathe  wrote:

> i apologise up-front for asking this on 9fans, but, how is acme and
> plumber and all it's utilities (including upas) made to work under
> non-plan9 systems via plan9port; on say something like linux or even mac
> os x?
>
> do they have some kind of user-level library which emulates 9p?
>

That's exactly right.

- Dan C.

[9fans] acme under plan9port : made to work?

[Mayuresh Kathe]

i apologise up-front for asking this on 9fans, but, how is acme and 
plumber and all it's utilities (including upas) made to work under 
non-plan9 systems via plan9port; on say something like linux or even mac 
os x?


do they have some kind of user-level library which emulates 9p?

~mayuresh

Re: [9fans] Acme create new file

[Chris McGee]

Thanks all, these suggestions worked great. I don’t know how I missed it in the 
docs and tutorials.

Chris

> On May 13, 2018, at 5:49 AM, Charles Forsyth  
> wrote:
> 
> Type B filename in the tag of an existing frame in the directory and execute 
> it with button 2; or type B filename as a command in that directory in a win 
> frame or rio window.
> 
> 
>> On 13 May 2018 at 02:22, Chris McGee  wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I’ve been using acme for a while and really enjoying the capability in such 
>> a small (code size) tool.
>> 
>> I’ve been creating new files by executing New to create a new window, typing 
>> the full path of the new file and then Put to save it. Am I missing an 
>> easier way to do this, perhaps via a directory window where I want the new 
>> file?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
> 

Re: [9fans] Acme create new file

[Charles Forsyth]

Type B filename in the tag of an existing frame in the directory and
execute it with button 2; or type B filename as a command in that directory
in a win frame or rio window.


On 13 May 2018 at 02:22, Chris McGee  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’ve been using acme for a while and really enjoying the capability in
> such a small (code size) tool.
>
> I’ve been creating new files by executing New to create a new window,
> typing the full path of the new file and then Put to save it. Am I missing
> an easier way to do this, perhaps via a directory window where I want the
> new file?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>

Re: [9fans] Acme create new file

[Mark van Atten]

On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Chris McGee  wrote:

> I’ve been creating new files by executing New to create a new window, typing 
> the full path of the new file and then Put to save it. Am I missing an easier 
> way to do this, perhaps via a directory window where I want the new file?

In the directory window, you can type 'touch myfile' and then select
and execute it with B2.

Mark.

[9fans] Acme create new file

[Chris McGee]

Hi All,

I’ve been using acme for a while and really enjoying the capability in such a 
small (code size) tool.

I’ve been creating new files by executing New to create a new window, typing 
the full path of the new file and then Put to save it. Am I missing an easier 
way to do this, perhaps via a directory window where I want the new file?

Thanks,
Chris

Re: [9fans] Acme - built in command; external command

[Alex Musolino]

Hi there,

It seems that it is *possible* but...  Well, have a look at [1].  It
almost certainly will break in some cases.  For starters, if a dirty
file is modified outside of acme it won't work; you'll have to clean
that up yourself.  Also, grepping the tag for 'Put |' is a screaming
hack but acme doesn't expose all of the information you need to
implement Putall externally.

All in all, it's a lot of mucking around to save 1 mouse click.  Just
place Putall and mk side-by-side in your tag and be done with it.

[1] http://musolino.id.au/up/PutallMk

--
Cheers,
Alex Musolino

[9fans] Acme - built in command; external command

[dexen deVries]

is it possible to execute built-in command
and external command with one mouse click in Acme?

something like: Putall; mk

Re: [9fans] Acme: moving the cursor to tag line

[Jeremy Jackins]

Opposing data point: the current behavior of esc in Acme is one of the
things I miss the most when using other editors.

On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 at 07:11 dexen deVries  wrote:

> i've realized i never use the Esc key in Acme.
> meanwhile, i often go through cycle of:
> - type chunk of code
> - grab mouse, focus tag line
> - type a command
> - grab mouse, execute the command
>
> would it make more sense to have Esc function as the "position cursor
> & focus at the end of tag line of the current window" shortcut? bit of
> a vi-like behavior; semi mode-switch, from input to execution *area*.
>
> have anything like that been tried in Acme?
>
> --
> dx
>
>

[9fans] Acme: moving the cursor to tag line

[dexen deVries]

i've realized i never use the Esc key in Acme.
meanwhile, i often go through cycle of:
- type chunk of code
- grab mouse, focus tag line
- type a command
- grab mouse, execute the command

would it make more sense to have Esc function as the "position cursor
& focus at the end of tag line of the current window" shortcut? bit of
a vi-like behavior; semi mode-switch, from input to execution *area*.

have anything like that been tried in Acme?

--
dx

Re: [9fans] Acme Edit to remove lines

[Micah Stetson]

You can also take advantage of x's default behavior of splitting the selection 
into lines and use g to select which you want:

Edit x g/^X/d

Re: [9fans] Acme Edit to remove lines

[dexen deVries]

thanks, that did the trick indeed.

Re: [9fans] Acme Edit to remove lines

[James A. Robinson]

You ought to be able to just add '\n' to the end of your expression in an
'x//' + 'd' command sequence.
For example, "search the file for lines starting with [a-z] and delete the
entire line" would be:

Edit ,x/^[a-z].+\n/d

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:23 AM dexen deVries 
wrote:

> given multi-line dot, spanning only part of a file, how do i construct
> an Edit command to remove lines matching certain regular expression?
>
> wanted to delete lines starting with one particular character; without
> leaving an empty line behind, thus Edit s/X.+//d is not sufficient.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Acme Edit to remove lines

[Paul Lalonde]

x/^X.*\n/d
Or
x/^X/+-d

Away from a terminal so probably subtly wrong.
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:23 AM dexen deVries 
wrote:

> given multi-line dot, spanning only part of a file, how do i construct
> an Edit command to remove lines matching certain regular expression?
>
> wanted to delete lines starting with one particular character; without
> leaving an empty line behind, thus Edit s/X.+//d is not sufficient.
>
>

[9fans] Acme Edit to remove lines

[dexen deVries]

given multi-line dot, spanning only part of a file, how do i construct
an Edit command to remove lines matching certain regular expression?

wanted to delete lines starting with one particular character; without
leaving an empty line behind, thus Edit s/X.+//d is not sufficient.

Re: [9fans] Acme and Git

[Bakul Shah]

You can use a cross platform file system event notification package like 
fsnotify/fsnotify or rjeczalik/notify, both on github. Instead of HEAD, may be 
just watch .git/index and when it changes, do git ls-files and see what 
changed. This will also catch local git add etc. though this probably doesn't 
matter.

> On Feb 16, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Paul Lalonde  wrote:
> 
> I'll give Watch and a bit of scripting a shot.  I couldn't find a git "HEAD 
> changed" hook to tie to, so Watch is pretty much the right thing.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:04 PM Erik Quanstrom  wrote:
>> try writing the file?  
>> 
>> On Feb 15, 2017 5:05 AM, Paul Lalonde  wrote:
>> I know I'm not the only acme user who uses Git extensively :-)
>> Is there some way to tell if a file is changed on disk that is open in an 
>> editor window?  I frequently change branches and I often find myself editing 
>> stale versions.  I notice when comes time to Put, but that's a bit late.
>> 
>> Any tips to share? 
>> 
>> Paul
>> 

Re: [9fans] Acme and Git

[Paul Lalonde]

I'll give Watch and a bit of scripting a shot.  I couldn't find a git "HEAD
changed" hook to tie to, so Watch is pretty much the right thing.

Thanks!

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:04 PM Erik Quanstrom 
wrote:

> try writing the file?  
>
> On Feb 15, 2017 5:05 AM, Paul Lalonde  wrote:
>
> I know I'm not the only acme user who uses Git extensively :-)
> Is there some way to tell if a file is changed on disk that is open in an
> editor window?  I frequently change branches and I often find myself
> editing stale versions.  I notice when comes time to Put, but that's a bit
> late.
>
> Any tips to share?
>
> Paul
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Acme and Git

[Erik Quanstrom]

try writing the file?  On Feb 15, 2017 5:05 AM, Paul Lalonde  wrote:I know I'm not the only acme user who uses Git extensively :-)Is there some way to tell if a file is changed on disk that is open in an editor window?  I frequently change branches and I often find myself editing stale versions.  I notice when comes time to Put, but that's a bit late.Any tips to share? Paul