Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes
Richard Robinson wrote: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, John Chambers wrote: The word hornpipe does exist primarily as a dance term, I think it has also been used for an instrument name (just to confuse things) - unsurprisingly enough I have a vague memory of bumping into it somewhere (but I can't remember where) as a translation for chalumeau, which is also said to have been a forerunner of the clarinet Yep The hornpipe (the instrument that is) was a single reed instrument, blown by mouth, with a bell at the bottom made from cows horn - hence the name Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes
Laurie Griffiths wrote: Yeah There are some old music history books that claimed that the Irish got the jig from the Italian tarantella The explanation for this seems to have been that the historians didn't believe that anyone in the British Isles had the brains to invent anything themselves, so they must have got it from more cultured people Well, people all over the world have always had a tendency to look abroad for exotic dance music (the French/English branle-contry dance-contre danse-contra dance-etc connection is a prime example of this) or if that failed, invent something (such as the French fake Scottish eccosaise) When it comes to the jig, the agreed upon truth during the 19th and early 20th Centuries was that the British jig came from the giga of the Italian baroque suite, although it's obviously the other way around But then again, that was the dark age of musicology and you shouldn't take *anything* written in any music history books during that period seriously unless confirmed by more reliable sources That being said, the jig - as we know it from the Elizabethan period and onwards - *is* strikingly similar to the sarabande, the canario, one of the two most important dances knwon as tarantella and a couple of other Spanish and Italian dances So far nobody has come up with any connection, but I think there *has* to be The term jig seems to have been originally used as a common term for most any uptempo dance with lots of jumpin' and jivin' and jiggn' One of the best known mid-16th C jigs, Kemp's jig, shows no resemblance at all to the modern jig, but is a dead ringer for a rujero (Concidering the fact that it's named after a famous actor/dancer/performer, it's probably a set dance anyway) X:1 T:Kemp's jig C:anon O:England Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://wwwmusicavivacom N:Slightly simplified version M:C L:1/4 K:D Dfe fAe|Bmde dAc|GBDA GBAc|Dd3z:| |:Dfa fa|Dfa/g/ f2|Ceg eg|Ced/=c/ GBA^c| DdAFA dAFA|GBDA GBAc|Dd3z:| Frank http://wwwmusicavivacom To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes
John Chambers wrote (about shottish): the constant footwork of: step-step-step-hop, step-step-step-hop, step-hop-step-hop, step-hop-step-hop Hmmm Can anybody tell the difference between a shottish and a Norwegian reinlender then? Frank http://wwwmusicavivacom To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] Re: Folkband
Laurie Griffiths wrote: Frank asked A rant? Is there actually a dance called that??? (Reminds me of what Shakespeare says about the branle, btw) And what did Shakespeare say about the branle? (I know that one meaning of the French verb branler is not polite to mention here) Twelfth night Just some silly pun on dancing the French brawl and brawling in French to pick up girls (BTW, I thought everybody in Britain was force fed Shakespeare during elemntary school the same way us poor Norwegians are force fed Ibsen!) Frank http://wwwmusicavivacom To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] Re: Folkband
Frank wrote ... (BTW, I thought everybody in Britain was force fed Shakespeare during elemntary school the same way us poor Norwegians are force fed Ibsen!) Yes, indeed. In an education that was about as far biased towards sciences as it could be I was nevertheless force-fed Henry IV, Henry V, Lear and Macbeth, there may have been others too, but if we did 12th Night then I have forgotten it. Also I was young and pitifully innocent and missed almost all of the dirty jokes. L. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes
No, that was someone else that wrote that. :) I live in the British Isles. I thought that the whole world knew that we invented football, the wheel, tennis, language, movement etc. L. - Original Message - From: Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes Laurie Griffiths wrote: Yeah. There are some old music history books that claimed that the Irish got the jig from the Italian tarantella. The explanation for this seems to have been that the historians didn't believe that anyone in the British Isles had the brains to invent anything themselves, so they must have got it from more cultured people. Well, people all over the world have always had a tendency to look abroad for exotic dance music (the French/English branle-contry dance-contre danse-contra dance-etc... connection is a prime example of this) or if that failed, invent something (such as the French fake Scottish eccosaise). When it comes to the jig, the agreed upon truth during the 19th and early 20th Centuries was that the British jig came from the giga of the Italian baroque suite, although it's obviously the other way around. But then again, that was the dark age of musicology and you shouldn't take *anything* written in any music history books during that period seriously unless confirmed by more reliable sources. That being said, the jig - as we know it from the Elizabethan period and onwards - *is* strikingly similar to the sarabande, the canario, one of the two most important dances knwon as tarantella and a couple of other Spanish and Italian dances. So far nobody has come up with any connection, but I think there *has* to be. The term jig seems to have been originally used as a common term for most any uptempo dance with lots of jumpin' and jivin' and jiggn'. One of the best known mid-16th C. jigs, Kemp's jig, shows no resemblance at all to the modern jig, but is a dead ringer for a rujero. (Concidering the fact that it's named after a famous actor/dancer/performer, it's probably a set dance anyway.) X:1 T:Kemp's jig C:anon. O:England Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com N:Slightly simplified version M:C L:1/4 K:D Dfe fAe|Bmde dAc|GBDA GBAc|Dd3z:| |:Dfa fa|Dfa/g/ f2|Ceg eg|Ced/=c/ GBA^c| DdAFA dAFA|GBDA GBAc|Dd3z:| Frank http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: Folkband
Laurie == Laurie Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laurie Also I was young and pitifully innocent and missed almost Laurie all of the dirty jokes. That was my problem; we did read 12th night, but I missed the dirty jokes. As well as all the stuff about dancing. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] RE : mystery Breton tune
This tune is really great !! It's one of my favorite in the celtic area. We play it with my folk band. You can find a cover of it by the famous breton band Tri Yann. They called it Kerfank 1870. I can't swear it, but I think the rythm is an An Dro. The lyrics they use is Général, ma Général d'ar ger, D'ar ger ma Général, D'ar ger n'eo ket d'ar brezel, Général, ma Général d'ar ger, D'ar ger ma Général, Ma Kaer de Marivault. En habit et jabyot doré, Tu nous vois d'en haut, Vive la Prusse et la France; Le cul nu, tout dépenaillés, On te voit d'en bas, A bas Guillaume et Chanzy. /.../ A tune with the same feeling can be found here : X:57 T:An dro C:trad A:Bretagne O:France M:2/2 L:1/4 Q:1/4=180 K:Bb Gdd d/2e/2|cc/2d/2B2|A/2B/2c/2A/2 BG|G/2F/2G/2A/2 BA| Gddd/2e/2|cc/2d/2B2|A/2B/2c/2A/2 BG|B/2G/2A/2F/2 G2:| |:A/2B/2c/2A/2 BG|G/2F/2G/2A/2 BA|A/2B/2c/2A/2 BG|B/2G/2A/2F/2 G2:|| I really like An dro. Here is another one :) X:14 T:An Dro #3 S:Claus Steinort, Ir-Trad, 3/97 N:Session in Doolin: Michael Queally, Noel O'Donoghue, Tola Custy, Cyril N:O'Donoghue O:Breton M:4/4 L:1/8 K:Bm Bffe ~f3e|dfef d2B2|cded cBA2|BdcA BAFA| Bffe ~f3e|dfef d2B2|cded cBA2|BdcA ~B3A:| BdcB A2 A2|ABcd cBBA|BdcB A2A2|ABcd ~B3A| BdcB A2 A2|ABcd cBBA|BdcB A2A2|ABcd ~B3A:| Greetings. Eric. ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes
John Chambers wrote: Frank asks: | Can anybody tell the difference between a shottish and a Norwegian | reinlender then? Yeah - They're spelled differently (That's the only difference that I can see) Richard Robinson wrote: I wouldn't put it past the Norwegians to have a different dance for them, Yep, we're a devious bunch, aren't we? We even have our own very special kind of waltz! ;-) but a lot of Reinlanders can certainly be played for people dancing schottis, without complaint Well, that's more or less what happens up here too It seems the difference is important to the musicians while the dancers couldn't care less Actually, the Norwegian reinlender isn't *supposed* to be identical to John's description of the shottish It's just that most dancers only know the first tur of the dance Frank http://wwwmusicavivacom To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
[abcusers] another mystery tune, Norwegian this time
This one is the signature tune of the Edinburgh Shetland Fiddlers They think it's Norwegian but nobody can remember where they got it from Ideas? X:1 T:The Hoy Song Z:Jack Campin 2002 S:Edinburgh Shetland Fiddlers M:2/4 L:1/16 Q:1/4=128 K:A % or do we play it in G? I can't remember e2ee e2ee|e2ee f2e2|c2cc c2cc| c2cc d2c2 | B2B2 A2A2|G2G2 F2F2|E2d2 c2B2|[1 A2G2 F2E2:|\ [2 A4 z4 || E4 E2A2|c4 ^HOY!!z4 |c4 d2c2| B4 z4 | B2B2 A2A2|G2G2 F2F2|E2d2 c2B2|[1 A2G2 F2E2:|\ [2 A4 z4 |] The HOY!! is shouted in unison (After the astonishing background to what I'd assumed was a simple social dance tune or peasant ballad with that Breton number, I await the revelations) === http://wwwpurrdemoncouk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] RE : mystery Breton tune
This tune is really great !! It's one of my favorite in the celtic area We play it with my folk band You can find a cover of it by the famous breton band Tri Yann They called it Kerfank 1870 As usual there's a web page about it once you know what to look for: http://wwwbzhcom/keltia/galleg/musique/bretagne/tri-yann/kerfankhtm Follow the Conlie link for the history It's a remarkable story I knew nothing at all about (The French state has been using its colonial and minority peoples as cannon fodder in the same way ever since, of course) I looked up what Marx might have had to say about it (in The Civil War in France); he doesn't seem to have noticed it at all, only mentioning that some Breton forces (presumably a faction of the survivors) were absorbed into an early and ineffectual army raised to put down the Commune It must have been well covered up at the time Can you translate the Breton words in the song? === http://wwwpurrdemoncouk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] ties, accidentals, enharmonics and part order
Apologies for dragging up old threads, but I've been away for a while jhoerr writes: What does this prove, except that *your* rules are self-defeating and incomplete? If your rules imply a contradiction where even novice musicians agree on a single interpretation, don't you think maybe the problem is with how you stated them? Oddly enough, that occurred to me While I couldn't find a copy of Norton's, I did find that but Music Notation by Mark McGrain says When an accidental not included in the key signature precedes a note, it affects only that pitch in that octave, for the duration of the entire measure or until it is cancelled by another accidental, which is about what I said, and, on the next page, he says An accidental applies to the full duration of the note that it attends Which is what you said Then it goes on to say, Therefore an accidental should not precede a note that has been tied over from the measure before, though it must be restated at the first recurrence of that pitch in the new measure, which I don't remember anyone saying So in the old example ^f-|f, apparently it's not only unnecessary to write ^f-|^f, it's actually incorrect There is an exception---of course---for a couple of pages later he writes that it is permissible to put a courtesy accidental on the note after a page-turn, ie if it has been tied over from the previous page Hmmm Cheers, John Walsh To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] Re: Folkband
Jack Campin writes: Gilderoy gets around there's probably no other tune in the British Isles with so many descendants Gilderoy *means* red haired boy Unless, of course, it dates all the way back to Gilles de Rais, in which case it means Bluebeard Cheers, John Walsh To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
[abcusers] Kemp's Jig
Frank Nordberg writes: ...One of the best known mid-16th C. jigs, Kemp's jig, shows no resemblance at all to the modern jig, but is a dead ringer for a rujero. (Concidering the fact that it's named after a famous actor/dancer/performer, it's probably a set dance anyway.) It's a Morris Dance. Kemp, in addition to being an actor in William Shakespeare's company was a Morris Dancer and made a bit of a name for himself jigging all the way from London to Norwich over the course of nine days (the so called Nine Daies Wonder). Did you see Shakespeare in Love? He was the one with the dog. In the realm of Morris Dancing, a jig is a dance for one or two dancers, as opposed to a set of (usually) six dancers. The word jig refers to the dance, not the tune. Although in this case the tune is named for the dance, many jigs have tunes that are also used for Morris set dances. __ /\/\/\/\ __ | | | | | David Barnert __ | | | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ | | | | | Albany, N.Y. __ \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
