[abcusers] New abcusers tune archive
I have been playing around with WebCatalogue for a few days and come up with a new design for the abcusers tune archive. It's not nearly finished yet, but if you like you can have a look at it at http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/index.html Any comments bug reports etc. are appreciated One new feature that should be of special interest are the contributors pages. Among other things these will allow me to include a short presentation of each contributor. So anybody who has posted tues at abcusers and would like such a presentation, can e mail it to me. Frank Direct links to the contributors pages: http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/atte-andre.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/bruce-olson.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/bruce-rosen.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/bryan-creer.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/christophe-declercq.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/dave-holland.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/david-barnert.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/eric-galluzzo.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/franck-rouquie.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/frank-nordberg.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/ian-hall.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/ivan-bradley.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/jack-campin.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/john-chambers.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/john-walsh.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/laurie-griffiths.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/nigel-gatherer.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/phil-taylor.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/philip-rowe.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/r-j-peach.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/rene-quinou.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/richard-robinson.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/robert-bley-vroman.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/sigfrid-lundberg.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/simon-wascher.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/steve-allen.tpl http://www.musicaviva.com/abctest/thomas-keays.tpl To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Software for extracting chords
Robert Bley-Vroman wrote: Anyone have a good utility for extracting chords from abc? Nothing fancy. I suppose you could do that with grep, but there are lots of people here that knows more than me about that. This could be a nice tool for making basic bass parts for tunes too, btw. The result would look something like this: Are you sure the second bar in line 2 shouldn't be G? Like this: X:1 T: Scatter the Mud M: 6/8 K: ADor Am G | Am | Am Em | G | Am G | Am | Em | G Am :| Am G | - | Am Em | G | Am G | - | Em | G Am :| Or - to include the whole tune: X:1 T:Scatter the Mud R:Jig Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg S:Based on various versions posted on Internet, mainly a transcription by John Walsh M:6/8 L:1/8 K:ADor "Am"eAA "G"BAA|"Am"eAA "Em"ABd|"Am"eAA BAB|"G"dBG GBd|\ "Am"eAA BAA|"Am"eAA AGE|"Em"GAB d2e|[1"G"dBA "Am"ABd:|[2"G"dBA "Am"A3|| |:"Am"aba "G"g2e|"G"dBG GBd|"Am"aba "Em"g2e|"G"dBd e3|\ "Am"aba "G"g2e|"G"dBG AGE|"Em"GAB d2e|[1"G"dBA "Am"ABd:|[2"G"dBA "Am"A3|] The performer is assumed to be relatively intelligent. Don't bet on that ;) Frank Nordberg Bodø To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Online notation program
This was posted at WHquestion a some days ago: SkyCMe wants to know: "Is there a Web Site out there that I can use to write out music on staff's and then print it out for free?" I suppose the only realistic way to get anything resembling that wouild be ABC. Any suggestions? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Change of e-mail address to davidale6@hotmail.com
I'm writing to let you know I have a new e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I recently began using a new product from Microsoft called MSN Explorer. With MSN Explorer, you can send and receive e-mail, exchange instant messages with me and the millions of other people who use MSN Explorer, browse the Web and much more MSN Explorer even offers an exciting new look for using the Web and makes it easy to find and play music online. Oh, so they finally got around to ripping off ICQ then? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Musicator2abc-conversion
Søren R Christensen wrote: Hi everyone! I have about 450 Musicator-files (.mct) with scandinavian folktunes which I would like to convert to abc-format for web-distribution. They are currently distributed as GIF-files (check: http://www.folketshus.dk/folketshus/spillefolk/noder.html) which are OK for screen-presentation, but to lousy and unpractical for print, I think. Wow! You've really done a great job there! There are lots of websites with music in GIF format, and it seems to work well most of the time - at least when the graphics are as clear as this. But of course you can't get high resolution prints that way. Conversion via MIDI is very tidy (means not practical possible) since all notation layout is lost. That's not an abc specific problem. I've yet to come across any music notation converter that keeps all formatting. I found a really obscure polka from a really obscure village (where I happen to work) on your site and tried to run it through macmidi2abc. Here's the result: --- % input file pk-saltdal.mid % format 1 file 2 tracks X: 1 T: M: 1/4 L: 1/16 Q:1/4=55 K:G % 1 sharps %Polka fra Saltdal % Time signature=2/4 MIDI-clocks/click=24 32nd-notes/24-MIDI-clocks=8 V:1 %New Midi % MIDI Key signature, sharp/flats=2 minor=0 z4|z4|Af/2f/2 fg|f2 f2| Af/2f/2 fg|f2 f2|ef ga|ge ^cB| Aa ^g/2a/2^g/2a/2|fd/2d/2 dd|Af/2f/2 f=g|f2 f2| Af/2f/2 fg|f2 f2|ef ga|ge B^c| dd/2d/2 dd|d4|Af/2f/2 fg|f2 f2| Af/2f/2 fg|f2 f2|ef ga|ge ^cB| Aa ^g/2a/2^g/2a/2|fd/2d/2 dd|Af/2f/2 f=g|f2 f2| Af/2f/2 fg|f2 f2|ef ga|ge B^c| dd/2d/2 dd| % MIDI Key signature, sharp/flats=1 minor=0 dB =c^c|dB GB|dB GB| ed =cB|A2 AB|c/2A/2F/2A/2 c/2A/2F/2A/2|c/2A/2F/2A/2 c/2A/2F/2A/2| ed dc|BB c^c|dB GB|dB GB| ed =cB|A2 g2|ff/2f/2 fe|dd ef| g/2a/2g/2f/2 g/2a/2g/2f/2|gB c^c|dB GB|dB GB| ed =cB|A2 AB|c/2A/2F/2A/2 c/2A/2F/2A/2|c/2A/2F/2A/2 c/2A/2F/2A/2| ed dc|BB c^c|dB GB|dB GB| ed =cB|A2 g2|ff/2f/2 fe|dd ef| g/2a/2g/2f/2 g/2a/2g/2f/2|g4| --- After some editing I got this: --- X:1 T:Polka fra Saltdal C:trad. O:Norway A:Saltdal, Nordland M:2/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4=154 K:D Af/f/ fg|f2 f2|Af/f/ fg|f2 f2|\ ef ga|ge ^cB|Aa ^g/a/^g/a/|fd/d/ dd| Af/f/ fg|f2 f2|Af/f/ fg|f2 f2|\ ef ga|ge B^c|dd/d/ dd|[1d4:|\ K:G [2dB c^c| dB GB|dB GB|ed cB|A2 AB|\ c/A/F/A/ c/A/F/A/|c/A/F/A/ c/A/F/A/|ed dc|BB c^c| dB GB|dB GB|ed cB|A2 g2|\ ff/f/ fe|dd ef|g/a/g/f/ g/a/g/f/|[1gB c^c:|[2g4|] --- This is really good ABC, but the work took me almost five minutes. Writing the file manually would probably have been faster. By the way, here's a string quartet/orchestra arrangement a friend of mine wrote a couple of years ago. It's really nice, though I'll have to ask her if there is some reason for that strange ending. The superfluous naturals towards the end isn't her fault, though. I had to add them because of a playback bug in BarFly. Frank Nordberg --- X:433 T:Polka fra Saltdal C:trad., arr. Kjersti Nilsen (1992) O:Norway A:Saltdal V:1 Program 1 110 %Fiddle V:2 Program 2 40 %Violin V:3 Program 3 41 %Viola V:4 Program 4 42 bass %Cello %The original arrangement was for three violins and a cello (or string orchestra) %Combining four different string instruments works better for a midi file, though. Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com %Formatted for BarFly M:2/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4=154 K:D V:1 "_f"vAf/f/ fg|f2 f2|Af/f/ fg|f2 f2| V:2 "_f"vAd/d/ de|d2d2|Ad/d/ de|d2d2| V:3 "_f"vD2 D2|DD/D/ D2|D2D2|AA/A/ A2| V:4 "_f"vD,2 D,2|D,D,/E,/ D,2|D,2 D,2|F,F,/G,/ F,2| % V:1 ef ga|ge cB|Aa ^g/a/^g/a/|fd/d/ udud| V:2 cd cd|ec AG|Fd d/d/d/d/|dd/d/ udud| V:3 A2 AA|AA/A/ AA|A2 A2|A2 DD/D/| V:4 E,2 E,F,|E,E,/E,/ E,E,|F,2 F,2|F,2 D,D,/D,/| % V:1 Af/f/ fg|f2 f2|Af/f/ fg|f2 f2| V:2 Ad/d/ de|d2d2|Ad/d/ de|d2 f2| V:3 D2 D2|DD/D/ D2|D2 D2|DD/D/ A2| V:4 D,2 D,2|D,D,/E,/ D,2|D,2 D,2|A,2 uB,uA,| % V:1 ef ga|ge Bc|dd/d/ udud|[1d4:|\ K:G [2d"_mp"B =c^c| V:2 K:D e2 ef|eB AG|FF/F/ GG|[1F4:|\ K:G [2F2 z2| V:3 K:D G2 A2|G2 A2|A2 B2|[1A2 A2:|\ K:G [2A2 z2| V:4 K:D G,2 A,2|B,G, F,E,|D,2 D,D,/D,/|[1D,2D,2:|\ K:G [2D,2 z2| % V:1 |:dB GB|dB GB|ed =cB|A2 uAuB| V:2 |:"_mp"vG2 GD|B,D GD|B,2 ED|=C2 E2| V:3 |:"_mp"vB4|B4|B4|A4| V:4 |:"_mp"vG,,2 B,,2|G,,2 B,,2|G,,2 B,,2|A,,2 =C,2| % V:1 =c/A/F/A/ =c/A/"_cresc."F/A/|=c/A/F/A/ =c/A/F/A/|"_mf"ed d=c|"_mp"BB =c^c| V:2 D2 A"_cresc."F|DF A2|"_mf"=cB BA|G2 z2| V:3 A4|"_cresc."A4|"_mf"G2 F2|G2 z2| V:4 D,4|"_cresc."D,4|"_mf"=C,2 D,2|G,,2 z2| % V:1 dB GB|dB GB|ed =cB|A2 "_f"g2| V:2 "_mp"vG2 GD|B,D GD|B,2 ED|=C2 "_f"E2| V:3 "_mp"vB4|B4|B4|A4| V:4 "_mp"vG,,2 B,,2|G,,2 B,,2|G,,2 B,,2|A,,2 "_f"A,,2| % V:1 ff/f/ ufue|dd ef|g/a/g/f/ g/a/g/f/|[1g"_mp"B =c^c:|[2g4|] V:2 DD/D/ uDuE|FF ED|=CE DF|[1G2 z2:|[2G4|] V:3 "_f"D2 DD/D/|D2 DD/D/|E2 D2|[1D2 z2:|[2D2D2|] V:4 D,2 D,2|D,2 D,2|E,2 D,2|[1D,2 z2:|[2D,2 D,2|] To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC not only for geeks
Guido Gonzato wrote: guess what? I happen to be writing such a how-to... Another project I'm interested in is a GUI shell to abc(m)2ps... Two good projects at the same time! Well done, Guido! :) :) :) In exchange, I'd love somebody would add !crescendo(! C. to abc(m)2ps... This raises an interesting question. How are dynamics implemented in ABC nowadays? I know there have been a couple of discussions about it here, but so far it seems to be no results. The "^..." and "_..." syntaxes are supported on jut a very basic level by BarFly and not at all by abc2ps and YAPS. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Musicator2abc-conversion
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a pointer to a spec? If Musicator files are text files, it's likely that I or someone else could grind out a perl program to chew it up and spit out ABC. It would also be helpful if you could give a URL for a directory of files in Musicator format. Then we could look them over and decide whether we want to tackle the translation. It's almost certainly not text files. We're talking about a program dating back to the late 80s here (the good old days with MS/DOS and 286 processors, you know) Musicator was developed by two norwegians, computer engineer Jo Bråttkorp and studio musician Brynjulf Blix, to fill the need for a program that could both play and notate music. It was quite a sensation when it first appeared (back in the days of MS/DOS and 286). After the company was taken over by Roland (or was it Yamaha?) they seem to have concentrated on developing the program as a midi sequencer more than as a notation program. I had a look at Musicator's home page (located at - believe it or not - http://www.musicator.com ) but couldn't find any reference to file format specs or anything like that. Maybe the best approach would be to contact one of the original developers. I've never met them myself, but according to a friend of mine who knows them, they are really nice people who would probably be very interested in helping. Brynjulf Blix is still a fairly profilic studio musician in Norway, so he shouldn't be hard to locate. (I know nothing about Jo Bråttkorp) Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Change of e-mail address todavidale6@hotmail.com
Bob Archer wrote: Just to try and head off any further responses to this... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, you wrote: I'm writing to let you know I have a new e-mail address: O yes who/what are you exactly? [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I recently began using a new product from Microsoft called MSN Explorer. Silly boy! etc., etc., etc. Hmmm... Sorry Bob, but it seems this subject won't die after all. Me, I'm just too happy to discuss this subject in the only forum where I can meet lots of computer-savvy guys regularly - even though it's way off topic. I'm seriously considering cooking up a nice little JavaScript redirecting my MSN Explorer visitors to a page saying "Sorry, my site is not available for MSN Explorer users" with some explanation why and links to Netscape and Opera download sites. My question is: Does Microsoft have *any* friends at all after this stunt? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Strange abc2ps error
Laura Conrad wrote: abc2ps -h says: Alloc options: -maxs n set maximal number of symbols (default 800) -maxv n set maximal number of voices (default 4) so saying: abc2ps -maxs 2000 should do the trick. That did the job. Thanks a lot Laura :* (And a small reminder to all abc4mac users: remember to choose "save preferences" after doing changes. Unlike most Mac programs it doesn't do that automatically.) Atte Andre Jensen wrote: I'm using Michael's abc2ps and it lets you parse this on as parameters, maxs=800 or whatever. Sure that's not the case with your version also??? That's right. I just couldn't figure out how to do it. I got almost desperate enought o read the manual ;) "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds Are you really, really sure about that ? Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Musicator2abc-conversion
Laura Conrad wrote: Actually, the main reason you shouldn't send attachments to mailing lists is that it doesn't work. Majordomo, one of the really common mailing list packages, has no idea how to deal with them. Frank MUSICATOR 2.50m Vi bekjender og Frank trord èz®~à£p= So here's the kind of thing I got. Never mind. It was more or less like that in the first place. Søren R Christensen wrote: Thank you for your input to this question. Musicator fileformat is BINARY. The current file-version (Muswin 3) is about 80 Kb with NO music in it yet. 80 KB??? The Musicator file I sent was from version 2.5 and it took just 8 KB *with* the music! I can't believe that the added features of 3.0 really warrants such an increase in file size, but that's not an unusual problem with newer computer applications I guess. I can send examples (empty file, file with a few notes in etc.) to anyone who would have a try. I have earlier asked the official "Musicator-company" what to do, their answer was, that all export from Musicator should be via MIDI. It'd be really nice to know if anybody manage to solve it. The music school at Saltdal has a fairly big collection of local traditional music in Musicator format. Some of it is really good and apart from the polka Søren has posted, I haven't seen any of it anywhere else. P.S. Frank, thank you very much for the arranged version of Polka fra Saltdal. Just a pleasure, but don't post it anywhere yet. I haven' got permission from the arranger to use it. She's an extremely nice and kind girl, so I'm fairly sure she'll say it's OK, but she hasn't replied to my last e mail yet. God helg! Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Strange abc2ps error
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I just got this error message from abc4mac: | | +++ Too many symbols; increase maxSyms, now 800 | | I have some idea what it means, but how can I correct it? Hmmm ... I don't have a mac, so I can't test anything directly. But abc4mac does seem to be a relative of abc2ps, which has an option "-maxs n" to set this parameter. Maybe you have something similar. Sorry, John, I replied before I had got your message. Thanks to you to. I'm really beginning to like this maillist :) And yes, abc4mac is closely related to abc2ps. It's simply abc2ps 1.7.9 combined with abc2midi 1.3.3 ported to Macintosh and fitted with a drag-and-drop interface. --- For those who are interested, I've made a BarFly version of the file too. It's found at: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/bachprel.abc a collection of Bach's "small" preludes and fugues in BarFly style ABC. There are supposed to be 31 pieces there, but it seems I've mislaid the F major prelude BWV 856a (anybody got a copy of it?) Maybe somebody who knows abc2ps better than me would convert them all? --- Bach's "Little G minor fugue" happens to be a very good illustration of something we've discussed here earlier: the problems with using ABC for keyboard music. Have a look at: http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/bluenote/764/pdf/bach-js/bwv578-org.pdf to see how this music really should look (don't mind the cheesy music font - I know I should get rid of that Petrucci font that comes with Finale). Does anybody have ideas about how to get this kind of results with ABC? --- Meanwhile, this is a potential problem for my cgi scripts, too. So I increased maxSyms to 2000 and recompiled. I'll try it on your Bach transcription and see what it does. Which reminds me, John: It seems the Bach prelude document I mentioned above has disappeared from your search engine. And you're stil listing the old abcusers archive URLs that doesn't exist anymore - the new ones are: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcusers/1998.abc http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcusers/1999.abc http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcusers/2000.abc Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Strange abc2ps error
Phil Taylor wrote: Finally you can do the thing properly. and write a proper Mac program with menus and dialog boxes which present all the available options to the user, letting them select what they want by clicking on checkboxes, radio buttons and other such GUI stuff. This is the way that Thurman Gillespy's MacMidi2abc works, and very nice it is. The big advantage of this is that you don't have to remember all the command line options; they are already laid out for you Where can I get that MacMidi2abc? The obnly one I knew about was the one that came with abc4mac, and that isn't nearly as sophisticated as that. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] O'Neill's 1001
In case somebody wonder why I've been so quiet recently: I've just finished the first half of my own private O'Neill project. The first 500 tunes from Francis O'Neill: "The Dance Music of Ireland" (known as "O'Neill's 1001") is now available as ABC at: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/oneill-1001-1-500.abc and as midis at: http://home.online.no/~frnordbe/oneill-1001-midis (the midi URL is temporary) I feel I've got the right to brag a bit here. The project I think is already one of the biggest single-transcriber ABC projects ever done (and it'll be twice as big when it's finished) and it also means that I now have more than 1000 of my own ABC transcriptions on my web site. The midis should be good examples of the possibilities of BarFly's ornament macros and stress programming, btw. Nos 51-500 are almost plain BarFly output. Postprocessing is limited to adding reverb an a copyright note (and removing some superfluous midi commands) Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] MacMIDI2abc
Phil Taylor wrote: The program MacMIDI2abc which I mentioned previously is available from: http://www.dr-razz.com/midi2abc/ It's a very nice Macintosh port of James' midi2abc. Phil Taylor Seems really good. There are still a few bugs (feature that doesn't work), as well as a few really strange things that seems to be a part of the original midi2abc, but it already seems to be a really uefull tool. It works really fat, and the "reconvert" features makes it easy to try out different settings (an absolute must for this kind of work). I tried to use it on a Finale-created midi file, and got this with the default settings: --- % input file styggen-paa-laaven.mid X: 1 T: M: 4/4 L: 1/8 Q:1/4=115 K:F % 1 flats % Time signature=4/4 MIDI-clocks/click=24 32nd-notes/24-MIDI-clocks=8 % MIDI Key signature, sharp/flats=-1 minor=0 C3/2FA/2(3c2c2B2A/2G/2-|G/2A/2B3/2(3B2C2E2G/2B-|B/2B3/2 AG/2FG/2A3/2A3/2|C3/2FA/2(3c2c2B2A/2G/2-| G/2A/2B3/2(3B2c2e2d/2c|B/2AG/2 F3/2F3/2F3/2z3/2|C3/2FA/2(3c2c2B2A/2G/2-|G/2A/2B3/2(3B2C2E2G/2B-| B/2B3/2 AG/2FG/2A3/2A3/2|C3/2FA/2(3c2c2B2A/2G/2-|G/2A/2B3/2(3B2c2e2d/2c|B/2AG/2 F3/2F3/2F3/2z3/2| C3/2ACA/2 z/2C/2A/2z/2 A3/2G/2-|GG _G/2(3=G2G2G2A/2B|B/2AG/2 GF/2Ac/2f3|C3/2ACA/2 z/2C/2A/2z/2 A3/2G/2-| GG _G/2(3=G2c2e2d/2c|B/2AG/2 F3/2F3/2F3/2z3/2|C3/2ACA/2 z/2C/2A/2z/2 A3/2G/2-|GG _G/2(3=G2G2G2A/2B| B/2AG/2 GF/2Ac/2f3|C3/2ACA/2 z/2C/2A/2z/2 A3/2G/2-|GG _G/2(3=G2c2e2d/2c|B/2AG/2 F3/2F3/2F3/2 --- which is pretty stupid of course. But then I told the program to take the tempo from the midi file (why isn't *that* the default?) rather than making one up itself and got this: % input file styggen-paa-laaven.mid X: 1 T: M: 4/4 L: 1/8 Q:1/4=154 K:F % 1 flats % Time signature=4/4 MIDI-clocks/click=24 32nd-notes/24-MIDI-clocks=8 % MIDI Key signature, sharp/flats=-1 minor=0 C2 F3/2A/2 c2 c2|B3/2AGA/2 B2 B2|C2 E3/2G/2 B2 B2|A3/2GFG/2 A2 A2| C2 F3/2A/2 c2 c2|B3/2AGA/2 B2 B2|c2 e3/2dcBAG/2|F2 F2 F2 z2| C2 F3/2A/2 c2 c2|B3/2AGA/2 B2 B2|C2 E3/2G/2 B2 B2|A3/2GFG/2 A2 A2| C2 F3/2A/2 c2 c2|B3/2AGA/2 B2 B2|c2 e3/2dcBAG/2|F2 F2 F2 z2| C2 A2 CA CA|A2 G2 G3/2_G/2 =G2|G2 G3/2ABBAG/2|G3/2FAc/2 f4| C2 A2 CA CA|A2 G2 G3/2_G/2 =G2|c2 e3/2dcBAG/2|F2 F2 F2 z2| C2 A2 CA CA|A2 G2 G3/2_G/2 =G2|G2 G3/2ABBAG/2|G3/2FAc/2 f4| C2 A2 CA CA|A2 G2 G3/2_G/2 =G2|c2 e3/2dcBAG/2|F2 F2 F2 --- That's much better, of course. The only major bug is the way the dotted rhythm is notated. I would expect it to add a final barline, of course (it seems it got confused by the fact that the tune ends with a rest), but that's no big deal. It's also a pity about the accidentals, but that's a problem macmidi2abc seems to share with all other midi-to-notation converters. I also wish it didn't write the repeats out, but you simply can't expect that. As for the chords, title etc. - well it wasn't in the midi file, so macmidi2abc couldn't know. Here's a cleaned up version: X:2 T:Styggen p\aa l\aaven C:anon. O:Norway R:Reinlender M:C L:1/8 Q:1/4=154 K:F "F"C2 FA c2 c2|"C7"BA GA B2 B2|"C7"C2 EG B2 B2|"F"AG FG A2 A2| "F"C2 FA c2 c2|"C7"BA GA B2 B2|"C7"c2 ed cB AG|"F"F2 F2 F2 z2:| |:"F"C2 A2 CA CA|"C7"A2 G2 G^F G2|"C7"G2 GA BB AG|"F"GF Ac f4| "F"C2 A2 CA CA|"C7"A2 G2 G^F G2|"C7"c2 ed cB AG|"F"F2 F2 F2 z2:| Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] O'Neill's 1001
"Atchley, John" wrote: Wow! Are you wearing bifocals yet?! No, but I think I should. Bert Van Vreckem wrote: Dzjeez, what kind of a job do you have that leaves you with so much free time? Just don't tell my boss, OK? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Meanwhile, I told my ABC bot about Henrik's .../abc/abcusers/ directory and about the above URL, and the number of ABC titles listed for www.musicaviva.com nearly doubled. Yes, I think there were a lot missing. All my ABC files are linked directly or with just one intermediate page from http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/index.html except: ... And the oneill-1001-1-500.abc doesn't seem to be pointed to by an link, so it would have never been found. That's right. At the moment it's for the abcusers mail list exclusively. THat's partly because I hoped for (and got) some valuable feedback from you before I posted them officially, partly because I was in a bit of hurry. When I posted my message, I had just five minutes before I had to go to work, and I haven't been back to my computer until now. I've wondered about O'Neill's 1001 myself; it's nice to see someone so masochistic as to take it on. I wouldn't have started the project at all if I had known how far the other O'Neill project had gotten. But I wonder about putting it all in one huge file. This will lead to a lot of slow downloads for people just looking for a tune or three. That was one of the things I wanted feedback from the list about. I think I'll settle for 100 tunes a file. Søren R Christensen wrote: Fantastic ! Now I see why you can put in a tune in abc in less than 5 minutes :-o - lots of routine. Me? I don't even touch-type properly. I don't think a simple folk tune should take more than four minutes to type into ABC. Here are three secrets to fast ABC typing: 1. Don't work too fast. It'll only mean more proofreading 2. Make your own shorthand writing. Especially if you use a non-US keyboard layout. An extreme example is my Psion 3 with Norwegian/Danish keyboard. To get a | on that, I'll have to type ctrl-1-2-4 (!) So I just use i for barlines and do a search-and-replace routine afterwards. 3. Use whatever tools are most suitable. One of my secrets is a FileMaker Pro database that automatically configures the headers, replaces strange characters with Tex codes (btw, Phil, when are BarFly going to recognize \ss for ß ?) and a few other minor details. Today's ABC project (Vivaldi's 1st flute concerto) was mainly done in a ClarisWorks spreadsheet. With all the repetitions across bars and parts that seemed to be the best approach. Actually I managed the whole concerto in about two hours, even on the old Mac LC I keep in my bedroom. It gave quite a load of errors, many of which may be from different interpretaion af the format (F.ex. it seems like if ABC2PS automatic put slurs on grace-notes, and therefore will not accept () around gracenotes, resulting in quite a mess of long slurs in the output). Hmmm... that's a serious problem that would affect quite a lot of ABC files on the web, including quite a few from the big O'Neill project I think. Another problem more specific to this particular collection is abc2ps seems to try to interpret the BarFly ornament macros as music. It shouldn't do that - they are clearly identifiable as header fields, so the program should just ignore them if it doesn't understand them. Oh well, I guess I'll have to upload an abc2ps safe version as well. Won't be much of a job, but I don't really like this "dual-version" business. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] MacMIDI2abc
Phil Taylor wrote: I don't think most users appreciate the difficulty of the task of getting notatable music out of MIDI files. The MIDI format was designed to hold music to be _played_, and basically consists of a list of pitches and times. There is space for tempo, key, and a flag for major/minor (but no other modes), but even these fields are often left empty. If a MIDI notation program is to put in barlines, a real key signature, notate repeats etc. then those things all have to be figured out starting from the bare list of pitches and times. FYI time signatures are included in the Midi standard. And you can tell midi2abc to extract time sig. from the file. Unfortunately this is one of the options that doesn't work yet non the new macmidi2abc port. (Come to think of it, I never got it to work with the *old* macmidi2abc either - is there a bug in the midi2abc code - or is it the porting that's the problem?) Under the circumstances, I think James is to be congratulated on how well abc2midi actually does. After all, it's still a lot easier to edit the output of abc2midi than it is to listen to the tune and write the abc yourself from scratch. That's right. And midi2abc fares very well compared to other (commercial) midi converters I've come across. Manually recorded midis will always be a problem. Not even Al Jackson manages to keep an absolutely mathematicalloy correct beat. Most of the other problems with the midi2abc could be solved very easily by postprocessing the abc if somebody could come up with one or more of these scripts (which ought to be really useful for other ABC processing works too): 1. A rebarring script 2. A script for halving and doubling the note values. 3. A script for identifying written out repeats and replace them with repeat signs. 4. A script for removing superfluous accidentals. 5. A script for converting accidentals to key signature. 6. A script for resolving awkward uses of and , e.g. changing |G3/2ABc/2| into |GA Bc| 7. A script for regrouping eight notes etc. but maybe I'm asking for too much here. I feel I really ought to learn perl myself, rather than skaing others for scripts, but I just haven't got time. I have to ABC the rest of O'Neill's 1001 and then there's Lindeman's Norwegian trad. music book, and van Eyck and Praetorius and the Bach chorals and Vivaldi's concertos and Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] O'Neill errors
Phil Taylor wrote: First, let me say how much I appreciate your good work here Frank. It's really nice to have these tunes entered accurately and in a consistent style. [blushing] 1. Slurs around grace notes. Yes. Gracenotes may be slurred to the following note (most classical examples), to the previous note (slow airs and vocal music) or not at all (pipe music), and all programs really should recognise this. Right. Although I don't belive this is of any significance for the O'Neill tunes, it certainly is for other kinds of music! The trouble here is that nobody has yet come up with a way of dealing both with nested slurs and with slurs between chords. I see. Pity. (I also seem to remember that some ABC programs confuse slurs with ties, making things like |CD(EF- FG)AB| impossible, but when I just checked, BarFly, abc2ps and yaps did that OK.) I think all the up to date programs get this right now. Seems so :) 2. Ornament macros. If you use the same set of macros throughout, you could put them at the top of the file before the first tune. I don't, but it's worth keeping in mind in any case. That would probably cause fewer problems for programs which don't understand them. Even so, ABC programs aren't supposed to have problems with unknown header fields. That being said, it seems that the actual output from abc2midi is unaffected. It's just those "friendly warnings" that program gives again. I wish it could at least give an "unknown header" warning, rather than an error for each and every character in the m: field. 3. Faulty upbeats on repeats. This is a very common problem. If you are making an urtext version you simply have to follow the book. It's very tempting though, to put in a forward repeat or [1 [2 ending here and there to make it play properly. It is, and I've realized I'll have to add a critical edition as well as the urtext. 4. The abc2midi repeat bug. X:1 T:Example 1 M:C L:1/4 K:C C2DE|FGAB|c2BA|GFED:| X:2 T:Example 2 M:C L:1/4 K:C |:C2DE|FGAB|c2BA|GFED:| There are far more examples of ex. 1 out there than ex. 2, so programs really ought to be able to deal with it. Yes. It's dangerous to speak about "right" and "wrong" notation, but ex. 1 is certainly the common way to notate such things. 5. abc2midi "new notation" error messages. A problem with abc2midi is that it doesn't distinguish clearly between minor warnings like this and more serious errors. Right. It's easy to panic when you see an error log two miles long. 13. Typos. I've been using the new key analyse routine to check the key signature assignments. I've done about 300 tunes so far, and found about 25 where BarFly differs in opinion. I'll send you the list when I'm done. Thanks! That'll be really valuable. In particular though I have doubts about the tunes you have entered as Lydian mode. I know that's quite common in Scandinavia, but it's rarer than hen's teeth in Ireland. I started off just looking at the last note and the key signature to define the mode. Took a while before I figured out that that wasn't a good way of doing it. A problem with the O'Neill tunes is that many of them doesn't seem to have a clearly defined tonal centre at all. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] O'Neill errors
John Henckel wrote:
At 01:36 PM 10/7/2000 +0200, you wrote:
To make matters worse, *no* ABC program seems to support nested
slurs. Thinks like |(GA({c}B) AGF)| occurs fequently in 1001,
and that isn't possible in ABC at all.
abcm2ps seems to support it just fine. It is rendered as (see bitmap 1)
2df28a2.jpg
which is working-as-designed. I don't know if that is what you
intended. abcm2ps does also support nested slurs such as |(G(A{c}BA)
GF)| which is rendered as (see bitmap 2)
2df28dc.jpg
I haven't used abc2ps so I don't know if it is the same or different.
It does. I stand corrected.
Sorry
Frank
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Re: [abcusers] Quicktim 5 preview silences BarFly
Phil Taylor wrote: Any BarFly users thinking of installing the newest version of Quicktime should be aware that the Quicktime Musical Instruments which come with it are seriously buggy... Thanks Phil. I guess I'll stick to QuickTime 4 for a while then. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Quintuplets
I've just translated a Beethoven piece into ABC, and ran into a strange problem. One of the bars (actually two of them) goes like this: X:1 T:Sixteenth note quintuplet M:2/4 L:1/8 K:Eb (5b/c'/b/a/b/ c'b| that is, with a pretty common sixteenth note quintuplet. For some reason that doesn't seem to work. Both BarFly and abc4mac (abc2ps and abc2midi) seems to expect the quintuplet to be written as eight notes: X:2 T:Eight note quintuplet M:2/4 L:1/8 K:Eb (5bc'bab c'b| Now, I've always heard quintuplet defined as "five notes in the place of four", but it seems strange that three independently developed ABC applications can have exactly the same bug. So, is there any tradition anywhere for the "five notes in the place of two" definition of quintuplets? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc2ps and early ornament signs
Jack Campin wrote: What is a problem is that the Mac version of abc2mtex does absolutely nothing on my system I didn't know there was a Mac version of abc2mtex. Where can I find it? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] free Finale
Jack Campin wrote: What are the implications of this? Unless I'm mistaken, this is the story: A while ago, Sibelius introduced the Schorch plug-in, enabling Sibelius users to post sheet music files in .sib format on the web. Eventually Coda had to respond to this, and for some reason (probably because they didn't know how to crete a plug-in) they went one step further and offered a scaled down free version of Finale rather than just a file reader plug-in. Sadly enough it seems that the concepts of cooperating to make a common standard and of creating a true (i.e. cross paltform) internet file format are completely alien to both companies :( Maybe we need an abc2finale translator to take advantage of it? Well, it should be doable. Finale uses two different file format, and one of them is text, not binary. Frank Nordberg http://www.musica.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] free Finale
Mark Vandenbroeck wrote: Hi, Is there any documentation on the Finale format (text or binary). I might give this abc2finale a try. The Finale text format is called ETF (Enigma Transportable File). It was an early - and rather half hearted - attempt to create a common file format for notation program. It hasn't had any practical uses for a while (Coda claimed that you needed the format to transfer Finale files between Windows and Mac computers, but that isn't true), but recently somebody published a ETF-Lilypond converter (se the links Ewan A. Macphearson provided). I've seen some of the results from that converter. It doesn't seem to work very well at the moment, but it's certainly promosing for the future. The ETF format is vastly more complicated than ABC. It contains all the layout data to recreate exactly the postscript output from the original, a complete set of midi functions and much much more - and all in a syntax that is more primitive and far less intuitive than ABC. I suppose an ABC-ETF converter should be possible (using a stationary file for all the functions not covered by ABC). The other way would be more difficult. Coda Software has released the ETF specifications as a 133 KB PDF file. I can't post that here, but I'll send it to anybody who asks me for it. Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] free Finale
Philip Rowe wrote: ... Otherwise, it would be hard work to use it as anything other than a viewer for Finale files created by other people. I think that was Coda's idea - a Finale viewer rather than a music editor. An ABC-to-Finale converter would change that drastically, of course ;) It would be wise to make sure that this Finale text format will import into free Finale before putting any effort into a converter. It does. Is the printed output better than anything the ABC community can offer? Yes. Guido Gonzato wrote: I have made a few quick tests, and although I must say that FinaleNotePad is a nice gift for undemanding users, abc is IMHO better. One thing for all: FinaleNotePad does not do PostScript unless you have a PostScript printer. Not to mention that actually typing notes is (to many of us, at least) quicker and more fun. That seems to me as an argument in favour of a ABC-to-ETF converter. Then we can type in ABC *and* get the Finale output. But I have to say I agree to some extent. I had a look at Finale NotePad, and although I was aware it was a scaled down version of Finale, I didn't expect a *butchered* version. So, to sum up: I think we should spend our time improving and completing abc, instead of writing convertion tools of questionable value. IMHO. (FYI: I definitely can't claim to have an unbiased view here. I convert ABC to Finale most every day and I'd love to have a direct route instead of being forced to go through midi.) I guess that depends on how much work it would mean. I'd definitely say we need a path from ABC to some high-end notation system - or preferably paths to as many high-end systems as possible. The main attraction of the Finale solution is that it ought to be fairly simple. After all we're "only" talking about remapping clearly defined parts of one text file to clearly defined parts of another text file. Also, Finale (the full-scaled version, that is) is at the moment the most complete notation system in existence. Neither Lilypond nor MusicTex nor Sibelius is even close when it comes to sheer number of functions. (I'm not sure if that is too important, though. I have difficulty imaging that anybody'd ever need Finale's full arsenal for processing something that started out as a simple ABC file.) That being said, there already is a convertion path from ABC to Lilypond. Lilypond produces very nice postsrcipt output, probably has all the functions needed for the music commonly notated in ABC and unlike Finale it is an Open Source program. (Personally I couldn't care less about the latter, but I understand it is *very* important to many here at abcusers). Laura Conrad wrote: I wouldn't waste my time on conversion to a non-free, questionably stable format, no. I don't know what you mean with "stable", Laura. Finale has been around for more than ten years now and has remained more or less the industial standard for most of that period. I don't think any other notation software system can claim anything like that. ETF files writeen ten years ago are still fully readable by today's versions of Finale (and soon Lilypond as well). There definitely is a compatibility problem, but that's the other way round (older versions of the program can't read newer files), and hardly relevant in this context. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is rather similar to the ongoing debate between plain text and all the various proprietary word-processor document formats. At first glance, word processors look flashy and impressive. But only people with compatible software can read them. And in a very few years, those fancy documents will become unreadable as new versions of the word processor programs come out. But plain ascii text from 30 years ago is readable just about anywhere, and will be readable a century from now. These are some of the reasons that so many people keep insisting on plain text in public mailing lists and archives. And those are very good reasons. Of course all music ought to be stored in a universal, standardized file format, equivalent to ascii. But there simply ain't no such thing, and the chances is that there won't be for a while. ABC in its present form certainly doesn't fulfill that need. XML might, but at the moment it looks more like a dream than reality. In many ways ETF is the format that comes closest to that goal. It was originally developed for that very purpose, and it seems to include everything needed. Unfortunately it never cught on and right now Finale and (to some degree) Lilypond are the only programs that support it. Formatting isn't important, and if we lose it, we don't lose much. The important thing is the information content. Yes, but in music notation it's usually impossible to draw a clear line between information content and formatting. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Gonna be off-list for a while
Laurie Griffiths wrote: I have had an ambition to cross an ocean under sail for many years. I am now going to attempt to do it. Wow Have fun Laurie! Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] free Finale
Laura Conrad wrote: "Frank" == Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Frank I don't know what you mean with "stable", Laura. Finale has Frank been around for more than ten years now and has remained Frank more or less the industial standard for most of that Frank period. I may be tarring all commercial developers with the Microsoft brush, well, the answer to that is both yes and no. It's obviously wrong to claim that all commercial software manufacturers think of is profit. But most of them are certainly more concerned about money than what is healthy - although luckily very few are as extreme as MS. The Finale manufacturer, Coda, started off as an extremely idealistic company, run by and for musicians. After a while it suddenly became extremely commercial, porting the program to Windows with the sole purpose of widening the market, reducing user support and general following up to less than bare-bones and venturing into marketing campaigns with claims they couldn't possibly fullfill. Fortunately this didn't last very long, and I'd say that Coda today is about average - perhaps slightly better - for a commercial software house. But Open Source isn't the One Great Solution To All Software Problems either. All this talk abut free software is nice, of course. Unfortunately the TANSTAFL principle applies here as everywhere else. TCO is difficult - often impossible - to calculate, but that doesn't mean it's not important. One of the most common arguments I hear used against commercial software, is that the user has far to little influence over how the program is to be. I suppose that is true. In fact I believe that statement is equally true for commercial programs and for Open Source. but as far as I know the etf format isn't guaranteed not to change. True - just like everything else. And I don't know what the quality of the documentation is. Do you want me to send you a copy so you can see for yourself? Frank I don't think any other notation software system can claim Frank anything like that. ETF files writeen ten years ago are Frank still fully readable by today's versions of Finale (and Frank soon Lilypond as well). I don't know on what you base that prediction. Oh well, I can dream, can't I? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] V: field
James Allwright wrote: On Sun 19 Nov 2000 at 11:02PM +0100, Jean-Francois Moine wrote: Also, about playing, it would be nice to have more than one MIDI channel per voice (any idea James? :). If you mean voices should be polyphonic, then you needn't worry - MIDI channels are already polyphonic. James Allwright To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html I think Jean-Francois meant it the other way round. That it ought to be possible to play the same voice through two or more midi channels simultaneously. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Melodic Index
Richard Robinson wrote: ... There is something like that with my stuff, http://www,leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/ A typo there, Richard: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/ ^ Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Blank music sheets
Just for the sake of completeness: There is a Windows program that is supposed to be able to print blank music paper at: http://perso.easynet.fr/~philimar/graphpapeng.htm The output I've seen looks really tacky, but I thought I'd mention it. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Finding music files
John Chambers wrote: So how does one go about identifying which of the graphics files and/or PDF/PS files contain music? [snip] How did you discover those 7560 images of music? How would one go about sifting through the billions of images on the Net and identifying the ones that are images of music? I was hoping somebody could help me with that some day. For now I do it manually :( Actually it's not that bad. By now I have a pretty good idea of where to look. I think I've indexed between 5 and 10 percents of the tunes out there and the update interval is a couple of months or so, and it's getting better all the time. Coincidentally, that is more or less the same as most general www search engines can claim. Frank NOrdberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Why XML is a bad idea[longish] (was Re: [abcusers] draft for V:)
John Chambers wrote: | | Really?? What do the Dead Sea Scrolls sound like in abc?? :-) | (Sorry John, I couldn't resist!) Hmm ... Maybe we could find the transcriptions on the Web, stick an ABC header on a few passages, and see what they sound like. It makes as much sense as some of the numerology and hidden text things that people dig out of the bible ... Maybe that's the truth about the Scrolls. They weren't religious writings at all, but rather the notebook of some session player way back then... Actaully, I've seen the results of taking English text and treating it as ABC. Actually I think it is a program out there that does that. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Why XML is a bad idea[longish] (was Re: [abcusers] draftfor V:)
John Henckel wrote: At 04:39 PM 1/5/2001 +0100, Frank wrote: I've started building a multiformat sheet music search engine, indexing music in GIF, JPEG, PS, PDF and ABC formats (the only truly cross-platform compatible formats for notated music). What?? You forgot the most important one! MIDI files are cross-platform and they are "notated" in the sense that they have "notes" in them. That's right, you could probably add guitar tabs as well. Actually my search engine also includes midi files, but not on their own - only when they are connected to files in some of the other formats. The reason is simple: The Free Sheet Music Search Engine is for standard notation sheet music only, that is either graphical images (GIFs, PDFs...) of notated music or files directly and reliably convertable to standard notation (ABC). Despite what some hotheads might claim, you can't count on being able to convert a midi file to notated music. Sometimes it works, but usually it doesn't. That's not *only* due to the limitation of current translating programs, but also limitations in the midi standard itself and the way it's used. Besides, there are already so many good midi search engines out there, so why bother making another one? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Why XML is a bad idea[longish] (was Re: [abcusers] draft for V:)
John Chambers wrote: Still, I'd estimate that there are maybe 20K truly distinct ABC tunes on the web that my search program has found, on about 125 machines. Here are the 123 ABC sites I've listed at The Free Sheet Music Directory. It's probably not absolutely identical to John's list (although we do exchange URLs) In case of e mail accidents: All lines in the list should start with http:// (of course ;) Frank Nordberg http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/ http://www.taberna.com.ar/ http://adactio.com/session/ http://home.t-online.de/home/pheld/noten.htm http://diato.org/tablat.htm http://shiva.di.uminho.pt/~jj/ http://www.celticmusic.com/ http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/ http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/ http://faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu/joyce/ http://famdeboer.www.cistron.nl/bagpipe.html http://Fox.nstn.ca:80/~mgasikn/violin.html http://hjem.get2net.dk/widell/ http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/tunes.htm http://home.primus.com.au/timbarker/ http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-11382/abc.htm http://ifdo.pugmarks.com/~seymour/runabc/top.html http://kazimodal.trad.org/ http://members.aol.com/boynehunt/ceili.html http://members.aol.com/jmarchenry http://members.aol.com/somido/abcsongs.html http://members.teleweb.at/simon.wascher/ http://members.tripod.com/~Rosin_the_bow/tunes.html http://moinejf.free.fr/ http://people.we.mediaone.net/brunodale/dances.html http://perso.club-internet.fr/banwarth/engguitare.htm http://perso.club-internet.fr/ocoronel/ http://perun.hscs.wmin.ac.uk/~jra/ http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/german/homes/agng/ http://pw2.netcom.com/~crfowler/pcorner.htm http://rbu01.ed-rbu.mrc.ac.uk/barflystuff/barflypage.html http://tnt.vianet.on.ca/pages/rickere/index.shtml http://users.erols.com/olsonw/ http://w3.one.net/~rsim/ http://web.syr.edu/~htkeays/morris/hounds/ http://www.8ung.at/diatonica/abc_eng.html http://www.AccordionLinks.com/publisher.cfm http://www.akula.com/~blakeley/music/index.html http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/index.html http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxhf/music/music.html http://www.blueskiesink.com/bar-b-q/index.htm http://www.blueskiesink.com/Ormston/default.htm http://www.blueskiesink.com/reavy/ http://www.calweb.com/~ndlxs/dulcimer.html http://www.celticmusic.co.nz/greenman/mark/ http://www.celticmusic.com/roger_landes/dragon_reels.shtml http://www.cnnw.net/~oneil/ http://www.continuo.freeserve.co.uk/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/dance/playford.html http://www.cranfordpub.com/ http://www.cranfordpub.com/tunes/abcs http://www.cri.ensmp.fr/~keryell/trad/partitions/partitions.html http://www.dinglehall.freeserve.co.uk/kyoy/ http://www.downie65.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.execpc.com/~jimvint/abc/milwsun1.abc http://www.execpc.com/~jimvint/index.html http://www.fff.at/fff/dance/ http://www.g8ina.enta.net/index.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6464/hmpg.html http://www.geocities.com/bertvv/en/index.html http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/4766/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5567/playford.txt http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/7088/ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/winder.html http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6812/ http://www.geocities.com/~cliff_moses/ http://www.hslc.org/~gormley http://www.ihp-ffo.de/~msm/ http://www.ihp-ffo.de/~msm/ http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/tunebook.html http://www.lesession.demon.co.uk http://www.lll.hawaii.edu/esl/bley-vroman/contra/ http://www.manchester-morris.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.banjolin.supanet.com/ http://www.mandolin.u-net.com/abctunes.htm http://www.mcn.net/~acflynn/music.html http://www.met.rdg.ac.uk/~chapman/ http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.nyckelharpa.org/ http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/jack.html http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~tradsoc/ http://www.salford.ac.uk/media/research/vmpaims.htm http://www.skandia-folkdance.org/spelmanslag/index.html http://www.sofiamusicschool.nl/ethno2.htm http://www.soltec.net/~daglenn/conc_70.html http://www.spirit.net.au/~gramac/ http://www.stanford.edu/~gwaldon/ http://www.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/~lingnau/ http://www.tradfrance.com http://www.trytel.com/~cfalt/Fiddle/ http://www.tullochgorm.com/~tarider/ http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/abcmusic/music.html http://www.ulst.ac.uk/faculty/artdes/Global/Fiddle/Tunes/index.html http://www.8ung.at/tradivarium/ http://www.webcom.com/~liam/gaelsong/song.html http://www.laymusic.org/ http://www.yagelski.com/sbox/index.html http://www1.roke.co.uk/SIB/repertoire.html http://zimmer.csufresno.edu/~larryc/ http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a7425519/ http://www.multimania.com/corneymusers/ http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ibb/scd/Music/ http://abc.sourceforge.net/ http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/ohgaki/sainak/sainak.html http://www.mbay.net/~brendah/articles/PDA.Jul.96/ http://www.uni-jena.de/~osb/tradswed/ http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dexy/celtic.htm http://members.xoom.com/Leffidd/ http://www.formulus.com/hymns/abc2gif.html http://www.flatpicker.com http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~cobb/ http
Re: [abcusers] WWW music notation formats (was: Why XML is a bad idea...)
John Chambers wrote: Meanwhile, closer to the previous topic: There are a number of music formats used by the commercial packages, such as Finale. Are there very many Finale files online? Not really. The only really important collection of Finale files is Oliver's: http://chemistry.csudh.edu/oliver/clarmusi.htm and all the pieces there are also available in PDF format now. Even the Finale Public Domain Library: ftp://ftp.shsu.edu/pub/finale/ tends to include PDFs GIFs and Midis created by Finale rather than straight Finale files. There are a few ETF files here and there, though. How about other proprietary formats? NWC (Noteworthy) is still big, but I don't think many people are actually posting NWC files anymore, it's just the back catalogue South American choirs tend to post music in Encore format - very few others do. There are a few older archives with files in Score format. Then it's Sibelius' sib. format, of course, but fortunately it doesn't seem to catch on as much as I feared. Is there a way to find them? Sure. Just browse through the web ;) HotBot is a good place to start, since it lets you search for pages that includes links to a specific file format. Do any of them have online communities of users? All of them have in one way or another. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Help!
You did send this to Laurie personally too, didn't you? Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: send it to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Laurie Griffiths wrote: Someone please help me. When I went off sailing I sent something to the list machine to tell it to stop sending me mail. It was off the form SET abcusers NOMAIL and it had to be sent, not to the list itself, but to the machine that runs the list. Well it worked! So I need now to send (I think) SET abcusers MAIL to the same place. Alas, I find I have no trace of it. WHERE DO I SEND IT? I tried aiming my browser at http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html like it said on the end of every message and clicking on the subscribe button, but that didn't work. I presume it happily notes that I am subscribed and is continuing to send me NOMAIL! DO NOT reply to the list - I won't see it!! reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I realise and accept that I might get 600 replies) Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] WWW music notation formats (was: Why XML is a bad idea...)
Laura Conrad wrote: The chief developer of lilypond threw together a etf to lilypond converter one Sunday afternoon. I tried it on some etf's Frank sent me and it still needed a lot of work. But the parser would be a start (it's in python) if someone wanted to look at etf to ABC. More info about the etf format at: http://www.s-line.de/homepages/gerd_castan/compmus/notationformats_e.html#ETF Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Finding music files
Phil Taylor wrote: For some time I've been idly contemplating writing an OMR program which would produca first draft abc from picture files. The first task such a program would have to perform is to locate the staves. Now a pattern of five equidistant horizontal lines is very distinctive, and it's not hard to devise an algorithm that will detect it, even if the lines are a few degrees off from the horizontal, as is likely to be the case in many scans. That sounds sensible, but I actually have tried an OMR program that couldn't even manage that. I scanned in the clearest print I could find in a rather high resolution and all I got was a "no music on this page" message :-| If all you want to do is decide whether a picture file contains music you can probably make that decision with a high degree of accuracy based on the presence or absence of staves. True, but deciding what te music actually was, would be much harder. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Csardas
Frank Nordberg wrote: [snip] V:2 BB2B (G2G2)|BGB2 BGB2|cd ec BGB2|z A z E z F z F|GD2B, G,4|] To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html What's going on here? I added a lot of blank lines after the ABC when I sent this e mail, and the abcusers footer still messes it up! Frank Nordberg --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Trailing blank lines (was: Csardas)
John Chambers wrote: [snip] As a test, I'll add a few blank lines after this: To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html I think this definitely is an abcusers issue. After all one of the most important functions of ABC is e-mailing music. So, can anyone explain what happens - and more important where in the chain it happens? John's posting seems to work fine, but mine is always missing the blank lines. Hmmm Frank Nordberg --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] V:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Laurie Griffiths asks - Can someone tell me how to access the ABC Users list archive. (Do we have one?) Well, I've heard it mentioned but I don't know how to get at it. I've been offline for a week now (hard disk crash), so I haven't had the chance to participate in the recent discussions, and there's *no* way I'm gonna jump into it at this stage ;) But the abcusers archive is located at: http://iona.tullochgorm.com/abcusers_archive/ Please don't tell any non-subscribers about it. It's not too well updated though. Last posting archived is dated Aug 5th 2000. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Creative BarFly Bug
I curiosity for BarFly users: I accidentally discovered that it's possible to get square note shapes by combining the neume clefs with V: fields Like this: X:1 T:Nobilis humilis C:anon. O:Norway A:Orkney Islands S:Codex Upsaliensis C233 (ms c. 1280) R:Gymel %Well, the word "gymel" wasn't really invented back then... M:none L:1/4 Q:1/2=64 K:Flyd Doh3 V:1 A c B2 A c B2 A c B d A c B2 A c B2| w:No-bi-lis, hu-mi-lis, Mag-ne mar-tyr sta-bi-lis, Ha-bi-lis, V:2 F A G2 F A G2 F A G B F A G2 F A G2| w:No-bi-lis, hu-mi-lis, Mag-ne mar-tyr sta-bi-lis, Ha-bi-lis, V:1 A c B2 A c B d A d/e/ ed||e c B c A F GA| w:u-ti-lis, co-mes ve-ne ra-bi--lis,_ et tu-tor lau-da-bi-lis,_ V:2 F A G2 F A G B F c cd|| c A G A F F EF| w:u-ti-lis, co-mes ve-ne ra-bi-lis,_ et tu-tor lau-da-bi-lis,_ V:1 G A A G F3 z A B c B/c/ A F GA G A A G F4|] w:Tu-os sub-di-tos ser-va car-nis_ fra-gi-lis_ mo-le po-si-tos. V:2 G F E/D/ E F3 z F G A G/A/ F F EF G F E/D/ E F4|] w:Tu-os sub--di-tos ser-va car-nis_ fra-gi-lis_ mo-le po--si-tos. It's certainly a bug, but one that might be useful. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Importing abc2ps output into Illustrator
Michel Sikiotakis wrote: Dear all, I tried to import an eps file created with abc2ps version 1.3.3 (ABC2PS-1.3.3.EXE) and Illustrator 8.0 replies : - The EPS parser is unable to parse this file. Any advice ? I think that's a rather common problem with eps. It seems the format isn't nearly as standardized as it should be. Have you tried using ordinary ps instead of eps? Both abc2ps and Illustrator is certainly able to handle that format as well. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] gracenotes
James Allwright wrote: On Thu 08 Feb 2001 at 12:35PM +0100, Frank Nordberg wrote: (Note: There shouldn't be any grace notes in this tune, of course. I just happened to have it handy for testing...) The results: BarFlydisplays and plays back nicely. abc2midi plays back nicely abc2psignores the grace note yaps comes up with an error message and no output at all yaps seems to be handling the grace note just fine for me. The error message is complaining about A z. Have another look for the output file. You're right. Sorry. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: developers/user
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
John Chambers:
Some years ago I saw a work which included a descending viola
line with a diminuendo, which ended on a low Bb marked "pensando".
That's about how a violist would have to play it, of course.
Laurie Griffiths:
Yes, that was one of the works of P.D.Q. Bach, discovered by
Peter Shickeley (not sure of his spelling).
Schickele. He has another one called "Wachet Arf" ("Let Sleeping Dogs
Lie") for dog ("houndentenor," PS in a costume) and orchestra. At one
point the first violin plays an ascending scale that goes so high it
becomes inaudible, but the dog wakes up with a start.
I came across the music to P. D. Q. Bach's trio sonata for two flutes,
tuba and tambourin once, but so far I haven't managed to find anybody
who wants to play it with me :(
But, just to set records staight. That viola stunt was originally
introduced by Hoffnung in a parody of modern music. I don't know if
Schickele used it in some P. D. Q. composition, but if he did, he stole
it from Hoffnung.
Frank Nordberg
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Re: [abcusers] Announcement: An ABC standards committee has been formed
Laura Conrad wrote: Chris Walshaw wrote: Chris Mea culpa. I agree - I too am more interested in Chris music (and my work) Chris than defining the standard and both of those have been Chris going rather well recently. John Atchley has volunteered Chris to update the standard in what seems to me to be a Chris reasonably fair way (involving discussion on abcusers about Chris any changes) and I have accepted his offer. I hope this Chris will move things along now. Here's the proposal John made, as refined by discussion among some potential committee members: ... Looks good to me :) Frank --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modal three chord trick
Richard L Walker wrote: Seems like once a key has been specified, any of the I, iim, IV, V type terminology would also be specified. If terms like Ionian do not exist for any specific key, scale type or chord, it might be best to stay with the (Roman) numerals. (I'm going back into the lurk mode because I don't even know what I'm talking about.) I don't know about your knowledge - or lack of it - but you hit right on the spot here. The Roman numerals, sometimes known as "Nashville notation", is basically what country and western musicians use for chord symbols. The system was invented by the great CW singer Paul Hindemith. (I'm sure everybody remember his #1 hit "Mathis der Maler".) The idea is to use Roman numerals for the steps in the scale, simplifying transposition, and allowing for generic, key-independent chord analyzis. (Digression warning!!!) Apparently this was the source of quite a lot of the problems Willie Nelson had getting accepted in Nashville. Mr. Nelson is definitely *not* a fan of the three chord trick, and his rather sophisticated chord progressions didn't fit very well inot the system the Nashville studio musicians were used to. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modal three chord trick
Mike Whitaker wrote: In all these three I'd replace Vm with VII. That would certainly give them more of a "British Isles modal style" flavour. Oops. My Britshness is leaking. *grin* You could, actually, do the Aeolian with Im, VIb and VII. But that's starting to get somewhat rock! Hey, *I* was going to say exactly that!!! This thread ties up rather interestingly with a workshop I do on "I-Spy Modes" ... it does help when you're struggling to jam or chord by ear. Sounds like a good idea. I'll have to try it. out. But I digress somewhat offtopic. From a pure ABC point of view I suppose this was off topic right from the start (I just keep waiting for someone to complain ;) But noone has come up with the lyrics to "Three chord trick" yet!!! Are 'slash chords' (e.g. E/A) part of the standard yet? I note abc2midi seems not to recognise them. The exact syntax for chord notation isn't really covered in the abc specs at all. As far as I know, abc2midi is the only application that attempts to do anything with the chords (apart from writing them down, of course) at all, and that program has a rather chord repertoire. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modal three chord trick
Laurie Griffiths wrote: ... Am and then that would be how it shall be. (For non-native English speakers, please note that I, a native British English speaker am not at all sure whether "shall" is really the tense I want but I mean that the law is laid down, the tablets of stone carved etc.) Maybe "shallst" would be better then ;) Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Laurie Griffiths wrote: Thanks. So Gsus would be G with an augmented third. I had understood that a "suspended" chord was one where a note from the previous chord (very often the 4th) was made to continue sounding in the new chord. Yes and no. The "sus" term originally meant that the fourth was held over from the previous chord, but people tend to have a far more relaxed attitude towards chord voicing nowadays. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Personal non-commercial wrote: On Wednesday 14 February 2001 15:11, you wrote: "... what Muse does isn't compatible with what abc2midi does..." This is true in principal, but actually what abc2midi does is very flexible and can easily changed by the user or in the source. Yes exactly one can either: 1. Use pay for a finished product. 2. Make do with (excellent IMO) freeware. 3. Expend (far less) time and effort to make desired modifications than it took some altruist to write the software in the first place. [3] If this results in `non standard' abc , well then fix the script with vi (or whatever) until it does work on your setup. I have to do this already for quite a few examples that i get. After all, the whole point of abc appears to be that it is not a `closed package' - one is evidently EXPECTED to do this. If one can't repair a car - it has to go to the garage. this is the same thing. Well said, RJP. Unfortunately: a) I don't have the programming skills needed to modify the source code of an application. b) I haven't got time to learn it. c) I don't know anybody who would do it for me for free. d) *Paying* somebody to do the job would be far more expensive than buying a commercial package. (Never mind that I have to have a professional music noation appliaction in any case.) I liked your car metaphor. My skills in that field is at about the same level as my programming skills, and I do take my car to a garage whenever I need something fixed. But I can assure you that no matter how attached I am to my trusty old Starlet: the moment repairing it costs more than buying a new one, it goes straight to the Great Car Park in the Sky. So I guess I'll keep on doing the bulk of my music transcription work with some other non-abc program package. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Laurie Griffiths wrote: I am not. I am not happy with the ambiguity of "one or more of" when in fact there are strong context conditions, for instance minmaj is crazy Do you mean the name is crazy or that nobody would ever use such a chord? I can agree to the former, but a minor chord with a major 7th added isn't unusual. and I don't know what "sus" would add to "sus7". Shouldn't that be "sus4" rather than "sus7". The sus7 chord is a different thing altogether - and definitely *very* common: Gsus7: G-C-D-F But the difference between "sus" and "sus4" - I'd say "sus" is either sloppy writing or a short form of "sus4". Which depends on your personal view of the transcriber, of course ;) There is no way to indicate a single note alone. That's certainly missing. There isn't any way to indicate no chord either, btw. There is no way to indicate root+fifth only (important to heavy metal - if you feed into a heavily distorting amp, then root+fifth is OK, but not much else! I think they call them "power chords"). We oguht to add "5" to the list of chord suffixes then. I offered an alternative a few posts back. The discussion has rambled and various points made. Let's get concrete. If you are not happy with mine, then propose an alternative. To recap, I suggested: guitar chord = silence|chord silence = X chord = root[modifier][/bass] root = note bass = note note = note letter[accid] note letter = A|B|C|D|E|F|G accid = #|b modifier = m|m7||maj7|dim|aug|!|4|5|6|7|9 The basic idea seems very good, but the suffix (modifier) list needs to be extended. I started making a list, but then I decided to post a (more or less random) example instead. Here's the chord progression to bars 9-44 of a big band arrangement of Woodchopper's ball - a fairly straightforward twelve bar blues - I made a couple of years ago (the arrangement that is - not the tune): D6 Dmaj7 D7 / | D6 / D7 D6 | D6 Dmaj7 D7 / | D6 / D7 G9 | G9 G11 G+11 / | G7 / G11 D6 |D6 Dmaj7 D6 / | D6 / D7 Em7 | Em7 Em13 Em-6 / | Em7 / / Em-6 | D6 / / / | D6 / / / || D6 / / / | D6 / / / | D6 / / / | D9 / / / | G7 / / / | G7 / / / | D6 / / / | D6 / Fm6 / | Em7 / / / | A7+ / / / | D6 / / / | Em7 / Fdim7 / || D69 / Dmmaj13+11 / | D9-5 / D13-9 / | D-9 / Ddim7 / | G9 / / / | G9 / / / | D6 / / / | D6 / Fm6 / | Em7 / / / | A7+ / / / | D6 / / / | Em7 / / A7+ || I've left the bass notes out for simplicity. For the record: +I've never been too fond of those fancy jazz harmonisations. That's why I keep my chord progressions this simple, especially when I arrange pre-war swing like this. +There isn't a single typo in this chord progression +There isn't a single superfluous chord there. +In case anybody wants to try it out, the first twelve bars are the theme, the next 24 are the clarinet solo - which I played almost exactly like Woody Herman did. Frank Nordberg --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Bert Van Vreckem wrote: About the definition of 11 and 13 chords, see one of my previous mails. I agree with the KISS thing, though. If you want to be able to parse every possible chord, the modifier part in your regular language will become too complicated to be good. If you have a way of defining uncommon chords, I really see no need to make the parser handle stuff like `mmaj13+11' (I'd like to see the definition of this one...). Dmmaj13+11: D-F-A-C-E-G#-B (The actual voicing for that chord in my arrangement was: [^C,,D,F,_A,B,CFA] so Dm7add6add+11/C would have been more correct) What I _would_ like in that case is a way to define it, e.g. at the start of the file or song, e.g... Yep, I think that's a far better approach. It seems obvious that a static list of chord suffixes won't be sufficient, but there are three possible solutions to that: a) chord suffix definitons as a part of the tune as Bert suggests b) chord suffixes defined in a separate file (like BarFly's stress programs) c) include a set of rules for how suffixes are constructed rather than a list of chord suffixes in the abc standard. I see no problem implementing all three alternatives. And then, Frank Nordberg wrote: Laurie Griffiths wrote: [...] for instance minmaj is crazy Do you mean the name is crazy or that nobody would ever use such a chord? I can agree to the former, but a minor chord with a major 7th added isn't unusual. The name is crazy, TMHO. I'd call such a chord `madd7'. `minmaj' suggests that the notes of both the maj and the min chords are part of it. 1, 3b, 3, 5, 7? I think this one may sound a little odd ;-) Mixing major and minor thirds is bread and butter for anybody who plays blues and blues inspired music. See if you can find a recording of Blood Sweat and Tears' "Spinning wheel". They're doing some wonderful things with that chord there. I'd use the suffix "+9" for that chord, though (US educated jazz musicians would probably call it "7#9") The spinning wheel progression is: E+9 - A7add13 - D+9 - G7add13 Guitarist Steve Katz plays: XX678X XX567X XX456X XX345X [sus7] I never encountered this notation: only sus = sus4 and sus2. The chord you cite here is G7sus4. Remark that a sus chord doesn't add a note to a chord, it only _replaces_ one (the 2nd or the 4th). Ergo, sus4 has three notes, 7sus4 four. I agree to that. "sus7" seems to be a fairly common abbreviation to "7sus4", though [sus] sus is definitely a short notation for sus4. Glad to hear that, since I use it myself quite often :) [G+11] So, G+11 would be a synonym of Gaug11. Err... probably yes. In the part of the world where I live, the term "aug" tends to refer to the 5th no matter what context it is in. There are three different conventions for indicating altered notes in a chord: #/b, +/- and (less common) aug/dim. All poses some syntax problems, especially since any people tend to use different conventions for different chords. I decided to stick firmly to the +/- convention since that seemed to be that one that caused the least confusion To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Laurie Griffiths wrote: Frank Nordberg wants the modifier list to include... No, I don't. I want the entire modifier list replaced with a set of fairly simple rules defining the syntax of the modifier. If I understand Mike Whitaker's proposal (which I'm not absolutely sure I do) correctly, it ought to cover almost everything. Just a few slight modifications and it'd be perfect. --- I'm not at all familiar with the formal language Mike used, and I suppose a few list subscribers would have slight problems with straight Norwegian, so I'll try to do my best defining a set of rules in my rather clumsy English. These 12 rules ought to cover every possible combination of scale and non-scale notes an confirms to common chord notation standard as far as it's possible to confirm to a standard that strictly speaking doesn't exist ;) 1. No chord suffix implies a major triad%step 1, 3 and 5 of the major scale. 2. m implies a minor triad %step 1, 3 and 5 of the minor scale. 3. The main series are based oon thirds in the mixolydian/dorian scale (with major 6th and minor 7th): 7 - 9 - 11 - 13. Any of these numbers implies that all the steps up to and including the specified one are added to the chord. 4. "6" specifies the (major) 6th to be added to the triad. 5. A + (or # if you like) in front of a number specifies that that note is raised a semitone. 6. A - (or b) in front of a number specifies that that note is lowered a semitone. %Note: I prefer +/- rather than #/b to avoid any possible confusion %with accidentals connected to the root note. I consider the problems %of "-" being confused with the old fashioned minor symbol and "+" with %"add" to be of much less importance. 7. "maj" specifies a major 7th. It is laways followed by a number from the main series. %Note: Ideally, I'd prefer +7/#7 instead, but "maj" is far too common %a term to be ignored. 8. "sus" before a number implies that that note is to replace the third of the chord. Only two alternatives are allowed: sus2 and sus4. 9. "x" before a number specifies that that note is to be omitted from the chord. %Note: It seems the most usual term for this is "omit", but I like %"x" far better ;) 10. "x" not followed by a number specifies root only 11. "add" before a number specifies that only that note and no others (unless otherwise specified) are added. %Note: "add" overrides "x", which means you can cut down to the root and %then add anything you like (e.g. Cxadd8). This is a kind of a catch-all. 12. The following common alternative suffixes are allowed: a) dim = m-7-5 b) 5 = x3 %the root-fifth power chord c) 69 = 6add9 d) 8 = xadd8 %Note: The list in #12 is definitely open to discussions Frank --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Just two short apologizes - quite malapropos everything. I've struggled with some annoying time delays during this entire discussion. My own postings has sometimes taken ages to appear, and I've received other peoples posting in the wrong order (frequently getting somebody's reply before whatever they replied to). So I'm afraid my arguments have been a bit out of sync with the discussion now and then :( Also, I noticed that some d*mn mail mangler messed up the carefully constructed layout of my list of chord suffix rules. I hope it's still readable. Frank --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Laura Conrad wrote: "Laurie" == Laurie Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ...Is this an appropriate moment to suggest throwing in roman-numeral and figured-bass notations as well? Laurie Yes, it's the right moment, but I vote against it. I would have said, no, it's not the right moment, but I vote for it when it is. I agree with Laura. The roman numerals question is simple enough that it can wait. Basso continuo is defnitely the father of modern chord notation (alfabeto notation is the mother in case anybody wonders), but it's based on a slightly different understanding of chords and poses completely different and really serius problems. So let's deal with that later. Frank --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Laurie Griffiths wrote: (I'm still wading through version 2 of the Rocky grammar). I don't want to exclude Jazz guitarists from using ABC but I also feel that I don't want ABC cluttered up with very complicated descriptions of chords. Oh well, time for the big showdown then :-| Chris Walshaw's introduction to abc ( http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/ ) says among other things: abc is a language designed to notate tunes in an ascii format. It was designed primarily for folk and traditional tunes of Western European origin (such as English, Irish and Scottish) which can be written on one stave in standard classical notation. However, it is extendible to many other types of music... What does that mean? Does it mean "abc started off in the brit-trad circuit, but we'd like to extend it to fit other styles too", or "abc is for notating brit-trad music, but people can use it for other styles too as long as they don't make too much noise about it"? Today abc is used for many different kinds of music. Sometimes it works quite well (most European traditional music), sometimes you need to make a couple of annoying, but acceptable compromises (early music), sometimes it's quite messy, but more or less possible (17th and 18th C. "classical" music). Sometimes abc is completely useless. I discovered abc more or less by accident almost two years ago. I was immediately taken in by the prospect of having an easy, compact and compatible-with-everything standard for storing and transfering music electornically. Nobody said to me: "oh, but remember it only really works for European traditional music!" If I remember correctly (and I think I do) the paragraph I quoted from Walshaw's site was slightly different at that time. Something about abc originating in British traditonal music, but the plan was to develop it to fit other musical styles too. Anyway, I downloaded BarFly immediately and started transcribing music into abc. By now very few paople can claim to have transcribed more music into abc than I have. And nobody can claim to have used abc for as many different musical styles. I didn't do this work to be able to post music on Internet - I already had a sheet music site far more popular than any abc site. Nor was it because working with abc saved me time - it certainly doesn't. I did it because I *believed* in the idea of a simple, standardized, *universal* system for notating music. But abc is far from universal. Hell, you can't even depend on an abc application being able to deal with the abc you've written. More to the point, there are still to many people with an "if I don't need it personally, we shouldn't bother" attitude hiding inside their own little pigeon holes flatly refusing to look at the huge, wide landscape that is MUSIC. I'm quite fed up with the whole thing right now, and before I do anything more with abc, I want a straight an honest answer. No digressions, no foggy evasive talk, no excuses: Does KISS really mean "Keep It Single Style" here at abcusers? Frank --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc server setup?
Alan Ng wrote: At 05:07 PM 2/22/2001 +, John Chambers wrote: Maybe you should tell us the URL for your server. Several of us have web testing tools, and we could quickly discover what the server is actually sending. (It's possible that the server is sending a good type, and lynx mapped it to application/octet-stream, but this isn't the most likely explanation.) Please try any of the three files: http://alan-ng.net/irish/abc/ng-reels.abc http://alan-ng.net/irish/abc/ng-jigs.abc http://alan-ng.net/irish/abc/ng-other.abc I had no problems with those at all, that is they were treated exactly as I've told Netscape to treat ABC files. Frank Nordberg --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc server setup?
Phil Taylor wrote: Alan Ng wrote: My new server is a remote, rented NT server, and I have successfully had the sysadmin add the text/vnd.abc MIME type as registered by Steve Allen to the server setup. However, both before and after that happened, the server does not deliver the file to the browser as a plain text file, which is of course the preferred way to view abc files. Before the MIME type, the browser would say "give me a file name to save this file locally." After the MIME type was added, the browser now receives the file and says I don't have the right plug-in to deal with text/vnd.abc files. This looks like a local problem with your browser, rather than the server. Depending on which browser you use, there should be a preferences setting somewhere which lets you specify what you want to do with downloaded text/vnd.abc. In Netscape 4 for Mac you choose 'Preferences' from the Edit menu, then select Navigator Applications in the left panel of the resulting dialog. You can specify any program which will open text files to handle it. Me and John Chambers joined forces once to make a list of instructions how to configure various brower/OS combinations for ABC. My part of the project is located at http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/browsers.html and includes instructions for Mac/IE 4.5, Mac/Netscape 4.5 and Windows/IE. John's page is at http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/doc/BrowserConfig.html and includes Unix/Netscape and Mac/AOL. That ought to cover the most common combinations, but there are still lots of holes, and any help filling them would be very much appreciated. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc server setup?
Alan Ng wrote: Hello again, I appreciate the reasons why John C. and Frank Nordberg have compiled browser customization tips for committed abc users, ... It wasn't much of an effort. Basically there was this discussion here at abcusers and wer decided to just post it. ... OK, now two concrete questions from me: 1) So are the world's abc collections all currently presenting their files as text/plain, and you deprecate this status quo practice? Up until now webmasters have been recommended to use the special abc mime type. (Most of them haven't bothered, though.) There haven't been any disadvantages to this. If the user had his computer configured for ABC, the files was treated accordingly, if not they were treated as plain text. But it seems things have changed drastically, so I guess we'll have reconsider the whole thing. I wish the browser developers could at least e mail us webmasters and tell us "hey, you know we had this amazingly crazy idea over a couple of beers yesterday, so now you'll have to redo half your site!" every time it happened. 2) Given that I would like my new server to behave like everyone else's server, do you recommend that I ask my sysadmin to remove the MIME type text/vnd.abc for *.abc files and instead create another MIME type text/plain for *.abc files? Or how should I best clearly word my request to a busy sysadmin who cares little about abc and us users of it? How about "please reset the mime type for the suffix .abc to text/plain". That should do it. Frank Nordberg --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Mike Whitaker wrote: ... As far as I see it, if we *want* abc to require a standard for chord names, we have three choices: 1) don't 2) pick one and stick with it, either by democratic vote or the old "I wrote the code so I get to choose" argument *grin* 3) allow chord 'dialects' so that folks who do it different ways can load up the dialect they're used to with a %% directive. An important point here: this entire discussion has been about establishing a standard for how abc *playback* programs that tries to interpret chord symbols. ABC viewers and players that do not add automatic accompagniment shouldn't be affected at all. If we want to introduce such a standard at all, we have to find one that is: a) consequent b) as simply defined as possible c) able to express any combination of notes d) as close as possible to common chord notation There are definitely some conflicts between those four requirements, but we can handle that. I think the main problem is notating chord note alterations. I've been advocating the use of + and - rather than # and b because that simplifies the definition considerably. Example: The chord C E G Bb D is notated: C9 If we want to sharpen the 9th, we can just add a + in front of it: C+9 That simply won't work with the #/b system. C#9 is a completely different chord. The usual solution is to add a 7: C7#9 That's fair enough, of course, but it requires slightly more complex rules for the poor computer. In my first posting to this discussion I simply said that the idea was impossible. I still think it is. That is, it's impossible to define a set of rules that covers all the major systems for notating chords. But we don't have to do that. We can just define one particular system and say "this is what ABC uses". Then of course we have to allow for local definitons to override the defaults, such as adding the header field c: c- = Cm or c: c- = [C_EG] causes the chord "c-" to be interpreted as c minor in that particular tune. I'm sure there'll be hot debates about the exact syntax for this ;-) but the general principles shouldn't be too controvertial, should it? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord notation
Laurie Griffiths wrote: I don't know whether C7(9)+13 is gibberish or meaningful or, if meaningful, what it might mean. I'd say C7 with an added augmented 13 - and throw in the ninth too if you like) In other words: C-G-E-Bb-A# with an optional D (Of course you have to be really concerned about details to differentiate between Bb and A#, but it *does* make sense) FRANK ARE YOU THERE??? Sure. The reason why I haven't posted anything on this thread recently is simply that Mike's proposition seems to me to cover all eventualities. There are a few details I disagree about, but nothing really important. Frank --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Fiddle forum
Just got this e mail and thought somebody at abcusers might be interested. Frank Nordberg Kyle Aaron wrote: Hello, Friends! My name is Kyle Aaron. I am a Commercial Music Major at South Plains College in Levelland, Texas. I just finished my new web site, "The Fiddle Forum"! This is an open discussion page for professional and non-professional fiddle players and violinists of any style. The forum is seperated into seperate discussion areas for a number of different topics including: Different Genres of Music associated with the violin, Discussion areas for the instrument and its accessories, And other forums including a for sale/trade forum and an off-topic hang out to get to know eachother better! You have to register before you can post, but once youre registered, you're always welcome. So I invite you to join along. This forum is brand new and needs members to be successful. The more members, the better the discussions become. So if you have friends who play, be sure to forward this message to them. I hope to see you there! Here's the adress: http://pub54.ezboard.com/bfiddleforum Thank you, Kyle Aaron-Fiddle Forum Host --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Hi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't help feeling that the subject of this thread is no longer entirely appropriate. Any way... Laurie Griffiths said - ... but decided that I had arrogated to myself the right to speak for the entire ABC users community On the contrary. I felt you were claiming the right to disregard the ABC community while speaking for a small group who seemed to claim ownership of ABC without justification. Bryan actually has a good point here. We all have a tendency to regard "the ABC users community" as identical to "the abcusers list subscribers". We could all be a bit more cautious here. But, Bryan - and everybody else: It seems to me we're spending a lot of time and energy discussing water under the bridge here. How about shaking hands and let bygones be bygones? Is it possible? I ask mainly because I think the mode/key sig discussion was rather important, and we really ought to finnish it. But recently even mentioning the subject has been impossible. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] The abc committee (Was: Hi)
I'm posting three different replies to Bryans post, because I think there are three different issues that ought to be kept separat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "We" - a different, but overlapping we - are currently trying to push the ABC standard forward. A committee set up with no reference to the wider ABC community. The committee surely should have stated their mandate clearer here at abcusers. It seems quite a few people have the impression that it's just a bunch of people who have decide on their own to take matters in their own hand. But it shouldn't be too late to correct that though, so here's a short history (I might have gotten a few minor details wrong): When Chris Walshaw announced his withdrawal from the abc development work a while ago, he oficially appointed John Atchley as the new "keeper of the ABC standard". John didn't want to have that responsibility alone, so he persuaded Laura Conrad to join him in the work (I've got a feeling she didn't need too much persuation ;) The two of them then set out to recruit committee members. In other words: as far as it is possible to have a clearly founded mandate in such an anarchistic environment as the abc community, the abc standard committee's got it. John and Laura decided to recruit committee members among the most active posters at abcusers. Honestly, I can't see they could have done it any other way. I'm sure there are lots of other abc users out there who could have done a marvelous job, but since they choose to stay in the background, we have no way of knowing about them. They also had senses enough to ask people in private rather than starting a discussion at abcusers. (Just imagine how *that* would have ended!!!) I was one of the people who was asked to join the committee, but I declined, suggesting they should concentrate on the major abc developers instead, and that's more or less how it happened. With hindsight I might agree it wasn't the perfect solution. Among other things it left Jack Campin and - as far as I know - Robert Bley-Vroman out. On the other hand, it made it far easier to set up the committee, and - even more important - it drastically increased the probability that the abc developers actually would follow the new standard. In any case, although I'm sure I wasn't the only one to suggest a committee of major developers, I'm willing to take the blame. So if anybody has any problems with it, please send any flames to me privately. No need to bother the whole list. (I already get so much spam, it won't make much difference to me ;) --- If anybody feels left out, please remember that a committee has to have as few members as possible to be able to work efficiently. Besides the committee is *not* the main forum for developing the abc standard. The abcusers mail list still has that function. So we just keep on discussing abc improvements here. The only difference is that there is now somebody to gather all the pieces and make something coherent out of it afterwards. Just like Bryan, I'm not convinced it'll actually work. But we have to give it a try. There doesn't seem to be any alternatives. Frank Nordberg --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)
John Chambers wrote: One minor quibble, which deals with a marginal issue that I'd like to mention: I think the "without implying a root" isn't the main thing here; it would be better to say "without stating a mode". I stand corrected. ... So my "marginal" point: The current standard says that if no mode is given, major is assumed. It has been suggested that in my extended K:tonicmodesignature syntax, the same default should apply. I think this is a bad idea. In my implementation in abc2ps, what I did was to say that if only the tonic is given, with no mode or signature, then major is assumed. This is a subtle point, but I think it has significance. To see why, consider a musician trying to transcribe a tune in what a middle-eastern musician would call "E hejaz" or a klezmer musician would call "E freygish". I'd write this as K:E^G That is, the tonic is E and the signature consists solely of a G sharp. (It could obviously be K:^g if you prefer.) The problem is the "global accidentals" of abc. Global accidentals is a good idea, but it is misinterpreted by a number of applications and certainly messes up the syntax if we want to introduce non-standard key signatures. I'm sure we can find a way round that though. As for the misinterpretation part, I suggest the devolpers of the applications in question update their software to confirm to the present abc standard. To avoid a potential sidetrack, here's a quote from the abc 1.6. standard: Finally, global accidentals can also be set in this field so that, for example, K:D =c would write the key signature as two sharps (key of D) but then mark every c as natural... So, the standard clearly states that global accidentals is *not* a part of the key signature. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)
Laura Conrad wrote: Many people feel that the current syntax for global accidentals which are not part of the key signature would be more useful and intuitive if it were used for accidentals which are part of the key signature. I have no problems with that. As long as we're talking about changing the standard rather than breaking it. Like laura I don't like changes that interfer with existing ABC, but I've never heard of any abc file that actually uses global accidentals, so it might be safe to do so in this particular case. Wendy Galovich wrote: If there is a way to do that and to expand ABC's capabilities for handling other music not covered by the existing standard, so much the better. John's solution does seem to do that. Seems so. We only have to keep in mind that a letter alone still means major mode. See if I've got this right: K: RootMode Key signature Dlyd D lydian F# - C# - G# DD majorF# - C# D^e_fD sillyE# - Fb D^f^c=g D none F# - C# - G natural _b +-unspecified-+ Bb etc., etc., etc. John's proposal doesn't *really* clash with abc 1.6 since the global accidental syntax seems to require a space between the key signature and the acidentals (e.g. D ^e_f rather than D^e_f), but keeping it might still be a bit too confusing. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] More modes (was: Modes and key signatures)
Laurie Griffiths wrote: Frank Nordberg's message included: K:C akustisk would mean: C-D-E-F#-F-A-Bb-c Did you really mean to include notes not in strict ascending order? E then F# then F? Is there more to this scale than met the eye? Sorry, a typo here. The correct sequence of notes is: C-D-E-F#-G-A-Bb-c Or, to be more precise (for the benefit of any mathematicians who might subscribe to the list): n - n9/8 - n5/4 - n11/8 - n3/2 - n13/8 - n7/4 - n2 (the observant reader might notice that the system actually calls for an extra note, but that one isn't generally used) Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] More modes (was: Modes and key signatures)
John Chambers wrote: Hey, that reminds me - I have a selyeflyte that I've had for years, but I've hardly learned any tunes on it. (It's made of PVC, which is why it's still around. ;-) I wonder if there are any around in ABC? I wonder if it would be possible to find them? Now if this mode were part of the standard, I should be able to find them rather quickly, don't you think? Tricky. The seljeflyte (willow flute) uses lots of quarter tones and is virtually impossible to notate that music in standard notation. There's a sound example at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/4915/SALLOW.HTM in case anybody is interested. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] C: trad (was Modes and key signatures)
John Chambers wrote: I've seen a similar argument used for including C:Trad to tell the reader that the composer's name wasn't accidentally omitted. I always use C:anon. if the composer is unknown. I think "anonymous" is genreally a better word than "traditional" in this context. A popular Swedish (of course) songbook actually insists on using "trad. arr." as the composer ;) Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)
John Chambers wrote:
...
An interesting musicological diversion: After getting involved with
Eastern-European and Middle-Eastern music, and also playing a lot of
Baroque music, some of Vivaldi's music started to make more sense.
There are a number of passages in his music that have transient
modulations from minor into the relative hejaz.
Interesting. Could you name some specific examples?
Frank Nordberg
---
X:1
T:La primavera
T:Op. 8 n. 1
C:Antonio Vivaldi
Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com
M:C
L:1/8
K:E
V:1 %Violino principale
P:1. Allegro
"Giunt e' la Primavera"e|gg gf/e/ b3 b/a/|gg gf/e/ b3 b/a/|ga/b/ ag fdB"_p"e|
gg gf/e/ b3 b/a/|gg gf/e/ b3 b/a/|ga/b/ ag f2 z "_f"e|ba/g/ ab
c'b2e|ba/g/ ab c'b2e|
c'b2a gf/e/ Tf2|e2 z "_p"e ba/g/ ab|c'b2e ba/g/ ab|c'b2 e c'b2 a|
gf/e/ "Il canto de gl' Uccelli"Tf2 "v"Mb2"v" Mb2|("v"Mb2 "v"Mb2 "v"Mb2
"v"Mb2)|(.b.b.b.b) (.b.b.b.b)|(.b.b.b.b .b.b .bc'/d'/)|
(e'/d'/c'/b/ a/g/f/e/) z4|z8|z2 z (.e' .e'.e'.e'.e')|Te3 (.e' .e'.e'.e'.e')|
Te2 z2 "e Festosetti La Salutan gli Augei con lieto
canto"b2-(b/e'/)(b/c'/)|b2-(b/e'/)(b/c'/) (b/e'/)(b/c'/)
(b/e'/)(b/c'/)|(b/e'/)(b/c'/) (b/e'/)(b/c'/) (.b.e) Tg2|
z2 Tg2 z2 g2|z2 Tg2 (.e'2.e'2)|Te'4 (.e'2.e'2)|Te'4 z2 z "v"e|
ba/g/ ab c'b2e|ba/g/ ab c'b2e|c'b2a gf/e/ Tf2|"Ei fonti allo Spirar"e
"_p"(G/A/) (B/A/)(B/A/) (G/A/)(G/A/) (B/A/)(B/A/)|
"de' Zeffiretti con dolce mormorio Scorrono intanto"(G/A/)(G/A/)
(B/A/)(B/A/) (G/A/)(G/A/) (B/c/)(B/c/)|(d/e/)(d/e/) (f/e/)(f/e/)
(d/e/)(d/e/) (f/e/)(f/e/)|(d/e/)(d/e/) (f/g/)(f/g/) (a/g/)(a/g/) (f/a/)(g/f/)|
g(f/e/) (d/c/)(B/A/) (G/A/)(G/A/) (B/A/)(B/A/)|(G/A/)(G/A/) (B/A/)(B/A/)
(G/A/)(G/A/) (B/A/)(B/A/)|G2 z g a4|
g4f4|g4a4|g4f2 z "_f"B|fe/d/ ef gf2B|
fe/d/ ef gf2B|gf2e dc/B/ c2|"Vengon' coprendo Lear di nero amanti e
Lampi, e Tuoni ad annuniarla eletti"B/ B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4
B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4 B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4
B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4|
(B/4c/4d/4e/4f/4g/4a/4b/4) z2 (B/4c/4d/4e/4f/4g/4a/4b/4)
z2|B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4 B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4B,/4
A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4 A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4A,/4|
(3b/g/b/(3e'/b/e'/ (3b/g/b/(3e'/b/e'/ (3b/g/b/(3d'/b/d'/
(3b/g/b/(3d'/b/d'/|c'2 z2 (3c'/^a/c'/(3f'/c'/f'/
(3c'/a/c'/(3f'/c'/f'/|(3c'/^a/c'/(3e'/c'/e'/ (3c'/a/c'/(3e'/c'/e'/ d'2 z2|
(3d'/^b/d'/(3g'/d'/g'/ (3d'/b/d'/(3g'/d'/g'/ (3d'/b/d'/(3f'/d'/f'/
(3d'/b/d'/(3f'/d'/f'/|e'2 z2 (3e'/c'/e'/(3g'/e'/g'/ (3e'/c'/e'/(3g'/e'/g'/|
(3d'/b/d'/(3g'/d'/g'/ (3d'/b/d'/(3g'/d'/g'/ (3c'/a/c'/(3f'/c'/f'/
(3c'/a/c'/(3f'/c'/f'/|(3b/g/b/(3e'/b/e'/ (3b/g/b/(3e'/b/e'/
(3a/f/a/(3d'/a/d'/ (3a/f/a/(3d'/a/d'/|
(3g/e/g/(3c'/g/c'/ (3g/e/g/(3c'/g/c'/ (3g/d/g/(3c'/g/c'/
(3g/d/g/(3c'/g/c'/|(3g/d/g/(3^b/g/b/ (3g/d/g/(3b/g/b/ c'2 z
"Tutti"c|gf/e/ fg ag2c|
gf/e/ fg ag2c|ag2f ed/c/Td2|"Indi tacendo questo gl'Avgeletti"(c .g.g.g
.g.g.g.g)|(.a.a.^a.a .b.b.^b.b)|Tc'8-|
(c'/d'/)(c'/d'/) c'2 (c'/d'/)(c'/d'/) Tc'2-|(c'/d'/)(c'/d'/)
(c'/d'/)(c'/d'/) Tc'4-|(c'/4d'/4)(c'/4d'/4)(c'/4d'/4)(c'/4d'/4)
(c'/4d'/4)(c'/4d'/4)(c'/4d'/4)(c'/4d'/4) Tc'4|
"Tutti"gg gf/g/ a3 a/g/|ff fe/f/ g3 g/a/|bb bb/a/ gg gg/a/|bb bb/a/ gg gg/a/|
bb ba/g/ (f/B/)(c/B/) (d/c/)(e/d/)|(f/e/)(g/f/) (a/g/)(b/a/)
(B/A/)(c/B/) (d/c/)(e/d/)|(f/e/)(g/f/) (a/g/)(b/a/) (g/e/)(f/e/)
(g/e/)(f/e/)|(a/e/)(f/e/) (a/e/)(f/e/) (b/e/)(f/e/) (b/e/)(f/e/)|
(c'd')e'2 "_f"(e'/b/)(e'/b/) (c'/b/)(e'/b/)|(c'/b/)(e'/b/)
(c'/b/)(e'/b/) e'e Tf2|"Tutti"eg ab c'b2e|ba/g/ ab c'b2e|
c'b2a gf/e/ Tf2|e2 z e ba/g/ ab|c'b2e ba/g/ ab|c'b2e c'b2a|gf/e/ Tf2 He4|]
P:2. Largo
M:3/4
L:1/16
z12|"E quindo sul fiorito ameno prato Al caro""_Il capraro che dorme"(g4e4)c4|(g2f2)g8|
(^B4d4)g4|^b2^a2 g8|(f4g4)d4|e6d2c4|
(g4e4)c4|a12-|(a4f4)d4|g12-|
g4e4c4|f12-|f4^B4G4|(e4c4)c'4|
(^^f4d4)g4|^a4 T^^f8|g12|z12|
(g4e4)c4|(g2f2)g8|(^B4d4)g4|e6d2c4|
(g4e4)c4|a2g2 a8-|(a4f4)d4|^b2^a2 b8|
g4^b4g4|c'4c4 z4|(c4f4)a4|(^B4G4)f4|
e4 Td8|c8 z4|c4f4a4|(^B4G4)f4|
e4Td8|c12|z12|Hz12|]
P:3. Danza Pastorale
M:12/8
L:1/8
"Di pastoral Zampogna al Suon festante Danzan Ninfe e Pastor nel tetto
amato"gag g2a (a3b2)a|gag g2a (a3b2)a|gab bag Tg3 Tf3|
"Di primavera all' apparir brillante""_p"gag g2a (a3b2)a|gag g2a
(a3b2)a|gab bag f3 b2f|
dcB bag Tg2f b2 z| b2 z b2 z b2 z (def)|(fga) (agf) (fed) (def)|
(fga) (agf) gag (c'3|b3 a3) gag (c'3|b3 a3) "Solo"gef gfe|bc'b
e'd'c' bgf e3|bc'b e'd'c' bgf e3|
(b/a/g/f/e) =d'c'b c'e'd' c'ba|(c'/b/^a/g/f) e'd'c' d'f'e'
d'c'b|(d'/c'/^b/^a/g) f'e'd' e'(g'/f'/e') g'f'e'|
d'(f'/e'/d') f'e'd' c'(e'/d'/c') e'd'c'|b(d'/c'/b) d'c'b a(c'/b/a)
c'ba|(g/^b/)c'2- c'2a (g/b/)c'2- c'2a|
(gc'=b agf) egc' dg^b|"Tutti"[e3/2c'3/2-][f/c'/-][c'e] e2f (f3
g2)f|(efe e2f (f3 g2)f|efg gfe e3 d3|
(g3a3)(f3g3)|(e3f3
Re: [abcusers] The abc committee
Just an amusing little story well known in my home country. It has *absolutely* nothing to do with this issue, of course ;) Two members of the Norwegian parlament, an oldtimer and a young newbie, were sitting beside each other during a really heated debate. As the battle raged at its worst, the youth turned exitedly to his fellow and said "now is the time to speak!" whereupon the old hand calmy replied "now is the time to shut up". I'll say no more. Frank Richard Robinson wrote: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank Nordberg said - John and Laura decided to recruit committee members among the most active posters at abcusers. Strange. They didn't ask me. Perhaps that's because you seem to spend 90% of your posts getting aggrieved and appearing to dislike everyone else. I don't think I'd want to work with you either. -- Richard Robinson "The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modes and key signatures (Was: Hi)
Someone (don't remember who) wrote: ... in a 'Greek' mode scale ... I'm not going to reenter this discussion at the moment, but just a word of caution. Be careful with the phrase "Greek modes". The ancient Greek mode system is not the same as the one we are using today. The same names apply to different scales in ancient Greece music and modern modality. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] do these chords have a standard meaning?
Jack Campin wrote: Is "(A)" just the single bass note on an accordion, or what? I've come across two different uses of parantheses in chord notation. In the song books I know, a chord symbol in a paranthes means "change chord if you like" (that seems to fit well in this case). In jazz - especially big band, parantheses are often used to imply notes played by other instruments, e.g. C7(b9) means "play a C7 chord - and btw somebody else is playing a D flat note, so if you want to embellish the chord, you'd better be careful with the D natural and D sharp". Is "EmG" a pair of alternatives? More probably a typo for Em/G, although a G chord does sound quite nice there. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Making PDF (Was: ABC standards committee webpage)
Richard L Walker wrote: How on earth do you create those pdf documents? I know this isn't really an ABC subject, but since PDF is becoming the standard format for tranfering a huge variety of different documents, it might be of interest. Laura has already answered how these particular PDF documents were created, here are a few other ways to do it: Adobe of course expects you to buy Acrobat Distiller to create PDF files. This is the most flexible and powerful solution, of course, but the application is rather expensive. That's why most people today seem to use GhostScript, a free postscript reader available for all major platforms. The main GhostScript page is at: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/index.html GhostScript does not support bookmarks and other fancy PDF functions, but it does make good basic PDF documents from postscript files. The problem for most Windows and MAcintosh users is to get postscript files in the first place (I understand postscript is more or less standard in the Linux/Unix environment). This is fairly simple when it comes to ABC, but other documents might be more difficult. Windows users might want to try FreePDF ( http://www.webxd.com/zipguy/freepdf.htm ), although the program's home page says: "Configuration of the programs requires comprehension and some effort on your part." Macintosh users have a very easy way out. PrintToPDF, located at: http://www.jwwalker.com/pages/pdf.html PrintToPDF is a shareware ($20) virtual printer. It works exactly like a normal printer, but instead of printing the document on paper, it creates a PDF file. Unlike GhostScript, PrintToPDF has limited bookmarks and hyperlink support. PrintToPDF is available in English, French, Germanm Italian, Spanish, Swedish and Japanese. Installing and using the program is as simple as it can possibly be, so I'll recommend the program to all Macintosh users. As far as I know, there are no similar programs for other platforms :( but maybe somebody else know of something? Frank Nordberg --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] New abc music file released
Laurie Griffiths wrote: I presume "$" meant U.S. dollars. What currency is "#"? Was that a misprint for "$" or something else? I suppose it means you can choose any currency you like ;) Italian lire or Russian rubels would be my favorites. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] New abc music file released
Steve Mansfield wrote: I'd like to announce that my latest abc file is now online - a transcription of all 50 of the tunes in the Renaissance dance tutor book Orchesography. Laura and Frank have each made a few of the tunes available on their sites, but this is, I believe, the first time all the melodies have been released in abc format. It is! And you beat me to it by just a week or two... ;-) Congratulations!!! Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Making PDF (Was: ABC standards committee webpage)
Lewis Jones wrote: ... However, on the question of how to produce publishable quality sheet music via the creation of .ps and .pdf files, you might care to read my little piece at: http://www.tradsong.freeserve.co.uk/Lewis1.htm ... I posted my thoughts some time ago, with a plea to those more technically proficient than myself to suggest imporvements. No-one has responded yet, so I am hoping this means that what I wrote was basically OK. Yep, I remember it. Basically it looks like a good recipe for Windows users. Just one little detail. All professional publishing programs (including music publishing programs) can output postscript directly, so if you use Finale, Igor, lilypond, MusTex or Sibelius, you don't have to bother with the printer driver. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Composer/Lyricist Distinction
"Mark F. Heiman" wrote: I've got a suggestion for an addition to the ABC specification that I hope won't be too controversial. :] Currently, the C: flag indicates the composer field. ABC shows its instrumental roots in the lack of any way to specify that the words to a song were written by someone other than the composer of the tune. Now that ABC supports lyrics, this is a situation that's increasingly common for notated songs. Certainly, you can put both pieces of information in the composer field, but that limits your flexibility in searching and displaying the data. Of course, all the uppercase letters are in use for field flags, so I don't know what would be best -- maybe lowercase c: ? Is this something that seems valuable to anyone else? Definitely yes. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC applications
Thanks to everybody who have sent me comments and suggestions about the abc applications database. On the basis of the feedback so far, I have made a number of improvements, and the new updated version lists 53 programs and scripts (I believe that makes it the largest list of ABC applications on Internet). There are a lot more to do, though, so all suggestions are still very welcome. Does anybody know what's happened to abc2whis, btw? I can't find it anywhere on the web. Laurie Griffiths wrote: Muse will also do... The Muse description has been updated. I'm not sure what "utility" means... It's a kind of a catch-all category. Every function that is not covered by the other categories are listed here. The categories (function) list is far from good, though. So, everybody at abcusers: Which categories do you think are appropriate? --- Here are the applications currently listed in the base: abc Coordinator abc mode ABC Player ABC Syntax Highlighting ABC to MIDI ABC Transposition ABC-Player abc2abc abc2midi abc2mtex ABC2NW ABC2NWC abc2ps ABC2Tab ABC2Win abc4mac ABCcheck ABCFind abcindex abcm2ps abcMIDI abcMIDIfier AbcMus abctab2ps ABCTools ABCTwin AbcView arranger BarFly BMW2ABC Harmony Assistant indexabc jaabc2ps m2g Macabc2chord macmidi2abc Melody Assistant midi2abc Muse MusicEase NMD2ABC playabc PlayQABC Runabc.tcl SET6 Skink sw2abc TablEdit tclabc tkabc Virtual Composer Yaps Yaps (Macintosh version) Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Proof reading problem
A small, but irritating problem. Does anybody *know* how the second bar in the last line of this tune is supposed to be? I've tried to figure it out, but there are a number of possibilities, none seem more probable than the others. X:1 T:Wearmouth Lads T:Col. Robertson of Strewan's Welcome Home C:Niel Gow R:Jig M:6/8 L:1/8 K:D D2dF2A|E2cC2E|D2dF2A|DFA gfe|D2dF2A|E2cC2E| agf gfe|[1dAFD2z:|[2dAFD2|:g|fdg faf|ece gfe| fdg fag|fda bg|fdg faf|ece gfe|agf gfe|dAFD2:| Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC applications
Bert Van Vreckem wrote: Frank Nordberg wrote: Does anybody know what's happened to abc2whis, btw? I can't find it anywhere on the web. Google found it at ftp://ftp.numachi.com/pub/abc2whis-0.1.tar.gz I found that one, but unfortunately the server doesn't seem to accept guest ftp access. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Macmidi2abc
I just got this e mail from a visitor. Hi I found a reference to this useful sounding program in your abc application index, however the URL doesn't work. Have you any way of finding it? It seems the macmidi2abc site ( http://www.dr-razz.com/midi2abc/ ) has disappeared. Does anybpdy know anything about it? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] PDF
P J Headford wrote: I can't see the point in PDF, myself. But I do get sent files as PDF, and then all I can do with them is look at the or print them. Seems a bit limited. It is. But apart from ABC there simply isn't any music notation file format standard enough to be useful on Internet. And ABC has some serious limitations. Anyone know if there's a cheap method of converting PDF to something useful like a TIF, GIF or JPG which I could then feed to Midiscan or similar? GhostScript can do that, although I have problems seeing why you'd want to do that with PDFs generated from ABC. After all if you have access to the ABC file, there are other, far more reliable import paths to a non-ABC music notation program. Also - I haven't tried it myself, but I doubt the output from common abc2ps applications are clear enough for programs like Midiscan to use. Flos PS I'm a newcomer to the group. Where do I find this list of useful ABC software that Frank compiled? http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcapps/index.tpl Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Making PDF (Was: ABC standards committee webpage)
Phil Taylor wrote: I just checked out the HP site, and it looks as if they don't make their own Mac drivers any more. Instead they say that you should use the Apple Laserwriter 8 driver along with the appropriate HP printer description file. Which is all fine and dandy except that it doesn't give you PDF output. Sorry about that folks. Oh well, PrintToPDF does exactly the same job as the HP driver in any case. And switching printer driver is almost as easy as switching between paper and PDF print with the same driver. PrintToPDF is $20 shareware, though. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Tune archive updated
I have just updated the abcusers tune archive at: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcusers/index.tpl There's a slightly improved design, much better navication functions, and of course a lot more tunes. For those who are new to abcusers, the archive contains the tunes posted here at this maillist. It's not absolutely complete. Some tunes are not sopyright protected, so I've left them out. Also contributors have occasionaly asked me not to include certain tunes, and I've always respected those wishes. Finally, I don't think I've managed to catch all the tunes posted before I started the archive. Even so the total number of tunes are now 206. I'll especially recommend everybody to have a look at Jack Campin's postings. He has made it a really nice habit to post some wonderful music nobody else has ever heard about. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC applications
Richard L Walker wrote: Categories can get confusing. It might be better to be able to key on functionality. Assuming you had categories of "players," "file format converter," and "sheet music printer" as categories, you would have no trouble with abc2midi or abc2ps, but you would have trouble placing other programs that perform multiple functions. If, on the other hand, each program is provided with keywords or codes as to which functions it does, then you could simply give multiple keys to those programs. Actually that's the way the abc application finder works. I use the word "functions" rather than "categories" and an application can be listed under mutliple functions. I don't know if it would be of value to anyone but me, but when tablature is supported, it would be interesting to know which instruments are supported in the "as installed" program. You're right. But as always there is a conflict between getting as many details as possible and keeping the base manageable :( I like to produce tablature for ukulele (heh heh - be nice) If type "ukulele" in the keyword field and click on "ABC to tab" in the function list, you'll end up with a list of all applications that can convert ABC to ukulele tablature. Well, at least you would if there had actually been any such applications ;) John Chambers wrote: While you're at it, you might add my abc2ps clone to the growing list. Will do. Can I add the perl scripts at http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/sh/ as well? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] small fragments?
book/ http://www.nyckelharpa.org/ http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/index.html http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~tradsoc/ http://www.salford.ac.uk/media/research/vmpaims.htm http://www.sff.net/people/julia.west/filk/abtabc.htm http://www.skandia-folkdance.org/spelmanslag/index.html http://www.sofiamusicschool.nl/ethno2.htm http://www.soltec.net/~daglenn/conc_70.html http://www.spirit.net.au/~gramac/ http://www.stanford.edu/~gwaldon/ http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ibb/scd/Music/ http://www.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/~lingnau/ http://www.tradfrance.com http://www.trytel.com/~cfalt/Fiddle/ http://www.tullochgorm.com/~tarider/ http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/abcmusic/music.html http://www.ulst.ac.uk/faculty/artdes/Global/Fiddle/Tunes/index.html http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a7425519/ http://www.uni-jena.de/~osb/tradswed/ http://www.webcom.com/~liam/gaelsong/song.html http://www.yagelski.com/sbox/index.html http://www1.roke.co.uk/SIB/repertoire.html http://zimmer.csufresno.edu/~larryc/ Frank Nordberg P.S. Does anybody know what happened to this site: http://faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu/joyce/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Tune archive updated
Cindy wrote: In a message dated 3/29/2001 4:37:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . Some tunes are not sopyright protected, so I've left them out. Also contributors have occasionaly asked me not to include certain tunes, I would like to hear the reasons why people do not want to have tunes posted. Looking back, I notice it has actually happened only once. The reason was - as Laura has already said - that the ABC transciption was a work in progress and not ready for distibution. Cindy also wrote: Actually, I had no intentions of arguing or even in disagreeing, nor of dragging anyone into a discussion. Maybe I wasnt clear in stating that I was only interested in different people's reason for not wanting their music posted so that I could be more informed when the topic came up, like it did in the workshop this past weekend. Don't worry Cindy. I think people here understood what you meant. We aren't always very good at "diplomatic" language here at abcusers, but we all mean well most of the time ;) *** We do not quit playing because we grow old, We grow old because we quit playing. -oliver wendell holmes- That's one of the best e mail footer quotes I've ever come across :) This reminds me, btw. I forgot to list the contributors in my last message: Atte Andr http://atteland.cjb.net John Henckelhttp://geocities.com/jdhenckel/ Philip Rowe http://knottedchord.members.beeb.net Bryan Creer http://members.aol.com/abacusmusic/ Simon Wascher http://members.teleweb.at/simon.wascher/ Phil Taylor http://rbu01.ed-rbu.mrc.ac.uk/barflystuff/barflypage.html John Chambers http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/ Nigel Gatherer http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/index.html Ian Hallhttp://www.dinglehall.freeserve.co.uk/kyoy Bruce Olson http://www.erols.com/olsonw Laura Conradhttp://www.laymusic.org/ Richard Robinsonhttp://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/tunebook.html Robert Bley-Vroman http://www.lll.hawaii.edu/esl/bley-vroman/contra/ Sigfrid Lundberghttp://www.lub.lu.se/~siglun/ Laurie Griffithshttp://www.musements.co.uk/muse Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com/index.html Jack Campin http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/jack.html Johnny Adamshttp://www.salford.ac.uk/media/research/vmpaims.htm Steve Allen http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/abcmusic/music.html Bruce Rosen Christophe Declercq Dave Holland David Barnert Eric Galluzzo Franck Rouquie' Gianni Cunich Ivan Bradley John Walsh R. J. Peach Ren Quinou Thomas Keays Any corrections and additions to the URL list? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Fomula for determining a half step in MgHz...
Mike Whitaker wrote: cb 278.43 277.2 d# 274.69 277.2 You mean C# and Db, surely? Of course. Sorry. I had some font convertion problems. The flat and sharp signs actually were * and * (that's how they're mapped in MetTimes) and I messed up the search-and-replace routines. Here's the correct table: Pythagorean Equal c260.74 261.6 c# 278.43 277.2 db 274.69 277.2 d293.33 293.7 d# 313.24 311.1 eb 309.03 311.1 e330 329.6 f347.65 349.2 f# 371.25 370 gb 366.25 370 g391.11 392 g# 417.66 415.3 ab 412.03 415.3 a440 440 a# 469.86 466.2 bb 463.54 466.2 #495 493.9 Phil Taylor wrote: That's not what I understand as a Pythagorean scale. Yes and no. Your description of the Pythagorean system is the correct one, but I chose to leave out a couple of intermediate steps to simplify things a bit. If you go through the cycle of fifths (dividing with two every now and then to stay in the same octave) you end up with the ratios I gave for semitones. These two temperements have two things in common, they are simple to define mathematically and they are pretty useless musically. It is indeed a pretty useless scale for any music which wanders very far away round the circle of fifths. We wouldn't get very far without the equal-temperament scale though would we? The equally-tempered scale distributes the comma of Pythagoras around all twelve intervals so all intervals are very slightly wrong. It's the only way you can tune an instrument with fixed tunings and have it sound reasonably OK in all keys. This only applies to keyboard instruments. All other insruments are to some degree intonated on the spot - whether the player is concious about it or not. A for keyboards - well, any decent piano tuner will tell you that he or she does not use strict equal temperament. You have to adjust the intonation slightly to get a good result. John Henckel wrote: Is "well-tempered" and "equal-tempered" the same thing? By coincidence, I aked that question at the smt maillist (where all the high-browers in music meet) a week or so ago. The answer seemed to be a rather clear "No". There's nothing to suggest that Bach used or tried to use equal temperament, and he didn't seem to have any problems writing in all major and minor keys. Laura Conrad wrote: John One time I watched a professional piano tuner and was John surprised to see that he didn't use any electronic pitch John measuring device. Yes, but he still tuned the piano to an equal tempered scale. Piano tuning is an art because piano strings are stiff, so the harmonics of the string are not the same as the mathematical overtones. Also, the tone sounds better if the 2 or three strings that are struck for one note aren't exactly in tune. There are a number of factors a piano tuner have to take into account, the overtones are never completely pure, unison strings should be slightly detuned for a fuller sound, bas strings has to be tuned slightly sharp... One of the important factors is that he has to somehow compensate for the shortcomings of the equal temperament system. Bruce Olson wrote: Can anyone tell me where to find out what Pythagoras said in a reliable translation? Unfortunately not. It's important to remember that Pythagoras lived quite a bit earlier than the other famous Greek philosophers and most of our information about him is based on myths. Platon seems to be one of our main sources, and he was born more than sixty years after Pythagoras died. Simon Wascher wrote: To my understanding, there are two groups of tuning systems which both are forming the basis of western music: 1) tempered intonation scales Including everything from pythagorean to equal tempered... 2) just intonation scales... Right except that Pythagorean isn't a tempered scale. It firmly belongs to the just intonation group. Phil Taylor wrote: I stand corrected. However, if the system used involved distributing the accumulated error from twelve perfect fifths among all the notes, the result will surely be an equally-tempered scale, even though it's mathematical basis is different? Not at all. The art of temperament is all about evening out the "deficiency" of the original fifth based system. There are literally thousands of ways to do this, all producing quite different results. John Walsh wrote: In fact, the even tempered scale hasn't completely taken over. I'll go further than that. Equal temperament is only used by electronic instruments. That's one of the main reason (perhaps *the* main reason) why a musical piece played by a computer sounds "unnatural" and "synthetic". Frank No
Re: [abcusers] Past discussions digests
Graham Paton wrote: As a newcomer, Welcome Graham :) I find it fascinating following the discussions but the sheer volume makes it very time consuming. We all feel that way from time to time ;) In addition I'm conscious that any questions I ask will probably have come up before. Don't worry too much about that. If it's a question that has been fully discussed earlier, it won't be much bother to repost the conclusion, if not, it might be time to reopen the discussion in any case. So: Is there any way to search past discussions (without downloading all the mailings)? The abcusers archive is at: http://iona.tullochgorm.com/abcusers_archive/ Don't tell anybody outside the list. THe archive hasn't been updated for quite a while though. Is it possible to receive only the digest? Yes, as far as I know, but I'm not the right person to answer that question. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Tune archive updated
Simon Wascher wrote: Hello, Frank Nordberg wrote: (...) This reminds me, btw. I forgot to list the contributors in my last message:(...) Any corrections and additions to the URL list? Yes indeed. this URL is still working but the provider company was bought and so they changed all URS I'll update it. ( by the way what did you post from my stuff ? I could not recive your mail then and am curious :-) ) Two tunes posted by Siomn Wascher. A really nice two part "Steyrer Tanz" and - actually I think I'll repost that other one. Simon asked if somebody knew the title, but nobody was able to answer. Maybe we're lucky this time? X:987 T:? C:anon. O:Austria? B:From an Austrian manuscript (1820) Z:Simon Wascher %http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/tunes/austria/unknown-180100.abc %Posted Jan 18th 2000 at abcusers by Simon Wascher with a request for %identification. So far nobody has been able to help, although John %Walsh suggested it was similar to "Rosy Finn's Favorite" (see below) %If you have any information about this tune, please mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I'll forward it. M:6/8 L:1/8 K:G Bc|:d2B ddg|b2g dBd|c2A ccf|a2f cAc|d2B ddg|\ b2g dgb|1aba gfe|ded cBA:|2aba gfa|g4:| W: W: W: From Musica Viva - http://www.musicaviva.com W: the Internet center for free sheet music downloads. Laura Conrad wrote: You should have Taco Walstra's lute tab site, http://msg.wins.uva.nl/~walstra/ABCArchive/. Christoph Dalitz, and maybe other people did some of the transcribing there. I'll add it to the Free Sheet Music Directory. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] how about 372 key/mode combos, then?
Jack Campin wrote: Apropos of Pythagorean and related tunings, I saved this article from rec.music.early a while ago. Margo is r.m.e's resident exotic-early- tunings wonk (she plays this way herself on a pitch-configurable electronic keyboard). I *dare* any of you to ask her to expand on this... It's my experience that Margo knows *everything* there is to know about early music, but I take a chance commenting on some of her information anyway. Indeed Vicentino promoted his _archicembalo_ and _arciorgano_ -- his superharpsichord and superorgan (the latter a kind of positive organ which could be disassembled, carried on a mule's back, and then reassembled at the next performance location -- as permitting free transposition. If we speak in "keys" in an Elizabethan sense as referring to the pitch level of a modal final, rather than to later major/minor concepts, then it is indeed correct that Vicentino's 31-note meantone tuning makes available all intervals on all 31 steps of the cycle. The Norwegian composer Eivind Groven ( http://www.notam.uio.no/nmi/bio/groven.htm ) is one of the persons who has done most work on "pure" intonation for keyboard instruments. He built a pipe organ (finished 1956) with 36 notes per octave and a system of relays selecting pitches according to the chord played. In 1965 he built an electronic organ with 43 pitches per octave and a primitive computer to control it. (Perhaps the first ever computer controlled musical instrument - and probably the only electric organ ever fitted with a bagpipe register) I was lucky enough to visit Eivind Groven's Institutt For Renstemming while they still had the pipe organ in working condition, and hearing the same piece played first with "pure" intonation (5/4 thirds and 3/2 fifths) and then with equal temperament was quite some revelation. On direct comparation the equal tempered performance sounded painfully harsh, out of tune and unmusical. One of Groven's diciples, David Loberg Code of Western Michigan University, has been recently been trying to transfer Groven's system to the grand piano, employing three pianos linked by a computer. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Past discussions digests
Matt wrote: Frank Nordberg wrote: The abcusers archive is at: http://iona.tullochgorm.com/abcusers_archive/ Thanks, Frank, but is it working? The header on that page seems to refer to a Gaelic language list, and when I submit a search, I get redirected to a login screen that seems totally unrelated. Gaidhlig Gu Leor Mailing List Archive? That's a new one. If memory serves me right, it used to be another (also unrelated) header on that page. But if you on one of the "View Archives" links, you do get the abcusers archive, so I suppose it doesn't matter much. The archive ends at Aug 5th 2000, though. Does anybody knows what's happening? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: abc for MAC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cindy wrote: I have been asked what is the best software (and why) to download for Mac users. Anyone want a go singing the praises of their favs? The answer to this kind of question always depends on what you want to do with it. David has an important point here. Generally you don't have *one* ABC program, you use different programs for doing different things. Since most of the programs are free, you don't have to worry about downloading as many as you need. Here are my (very personal) experiences with some ABC related software: BarFly Freeware Mandatorial for everybody who works with ABC on a Mac. --- abc4mac Freeware Converts ABC to postscript and midi. The postscript (sheet music) output of abc4mac is of better quality than the graphic output of BarFly. BarFly's midi output *sounds* better than abc4mac's, but isn't very good for exporting to other notation programs, so you'll want abc4mac if you want to combine ABC with non-abc noation programs. --- abctab2ps Freeware Another ABC to postscript converter, specializing in early music. Unfortunately the postcript output files from the Mac version seems to be unreadable by any software known to mankind, so it's pretty useless at the moment. I really hope that bug will be fixed soon, though. --- yaps Freeware Yet Another ABC to Postscript converter. Some advantages over abc4mac, some disadvantages. --- abc2mtex Freeware The original ABC application. Converts ABC to postscript. I haven't tried it since you need MusicTex to use abc2mtex and I never even consider using a program that takes more than five minutes to get working. --- GhostScript Freeware Not an ABC program, but with all those ABC-to-Postscript converters, you need a program that can actually display the postscript too, don't you? --- GhostView Shareware A fancier version of GhostScript. Definitely better, but the free GhostScript seems to do everything I want it to, so I've never seen any need for upgrading. --- macmidi2abc Freeware Converts midi files to ABC. Some annoying bugs, but still quite useful. --- MidiGraphy Shareware Not ABC, but a very good, simple and cheap midi program. I use it a lot for postprocessing midifiles created by BarFly and abc4mac. --- GraphicConverter Shareware Not an ABC application, but almost mandatorial for everybody who's working with graphic files (including sheet music output from BarFly and GhostScript) on a Mac. Converts between more than 60 different graphics formats - and it's a pretty powerful picture editor too. --- tclabc Freeware? I haven't tried it. --- Skink Freeware Java based ABC display program. I haven't had time to test it yet. --- Virtual composer Shareware Notation program specially focused on baroque polyphonic music (all the examples files are Bach!) A pretty basic notation program, but it creates really nice ABC output - apart from its annoying habit of adding line breaks after each and every bar in ABC. --- Macabc2chord Freeware Extracts the chord symbols from an ABC file. Requires MacPerl to run. --- Melody Assistant Shareware Useless crap. --- Melody Assistant Shareware Extended version of the useless crap. --- Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] PDA abc?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again, I have this dream of being able to do music transcription in abc on a truly portable device (e.g., Psion Revo, Palm, Casio Casiopeia). To be useful, the system would need the following: - headphone jack - MP3 playback, looping, and slowdown software - text editor for abc files - abc to midi converter - MIDI player - PDA to desktop file transfer link Does any such system exist? Of course you can write ABC on a PDA (I do most of my ABC transcriptions on my old Psion 3), but viewing and playing the files is harder. Henning Kiel has made a ABC player for Psion. You can find it at: http://student.physik.uni-dortmund.de/homepages/kiel/prgs_uk.html I haven't tried the program myself yet, but as fas as I understand, it's very limited. There's also supposed to be an ABC Viewer for Palm Pilot at http://www.biff.org.uk/dave/ but that link seems to be broken. You should also have a look at Brenda Holloway's "Playback Machine": http://www.mbay.net/~brendah/articles/ Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] PDA abc?
Laura Conrad wrote: There are certainly text editors for the pilot... Just one little thing I forgot to say: If you're planning to write or edit ABC on a PDA, make sure you get one with a keyboard. You don't want to do that kind of work writing on a screen. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] BarFly 1d29 available
Phil Taylor wrote: There's a new version of BarFly up for grabs. Great :) Get it from: http://rbu01.ed-rbu.mrc.ac.uk/barflystuff/barflypage.html (and in due course from the mirrors) The Musica Viva mirror is updated: http://www.musicaviva.com/software/index.tpl Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/, www.celticmusic.co.nz
John Chambers wrote: The most recent run of my tune finder's search bot saw a loss of over 7000 tunes, which got my attention. It turns out that it was mostly due to a drop of 9000 tunes at www.geocities.com. Much of the loss seems to have been in the directory www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/, which now contains no file whose name starts with a letter after 'h'. That'll be the Ceili House Band's tune collection. Don't worry. It's all duplicated at the band's main site: http://members.aol.com/boynehunt/themusic.html One document - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/winder.html - with 144 tunes is missing, though. Maybe I should post the tunes at Musica Viva. Does anybody know anything about copyright laws for that kind of things? Geocities is becoming somewhat known for snafus, but this does seem a bit strange. I looked around a bit, but couldn't discover any email address associated with this tune collection. Does anyone know who it belongs to? On a somewhat smaller scale, there used to be a few dozen tunes at www.celticmusic.co.nz, and they've all disappeared. Does anyone recognize this site, or know who it belonged to? Did they maybe move somewhere? That site belonged to someone named Mark Fitzsimons, and contained music in Celtic style composed by the webmaster. He is also supposed to have a home page at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markf/ but that's only an empty directory at the moment. A Google search for Mark Fitzsimons comes up with 96 hits, so I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to track him down. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/, www.celticmusic.co.nz
I posted this reply yesterday, but it seems it has got lost somewhere on the web. It'll probably pop up sonner or later, but just in case: John Chambers wrote: The most recent run of my tune finder's search bot saw a loss of over 7000 tunes, which got my attention. It turns out that it was mostly due to a drop of 9000 tunes at www.geocities.com. Much of the loss seems to have been in the directory www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/, which now contains no file whose name starts with a letter after 'h'. That'll be the Ceili House Band's tune collection. Don't worry. It's all duplicated at the band's main site: http://members.aol.com/boynehunt/themusic.html One document - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/winder.html - with 144 tunes is missing, though. Maybe I should post the tunes at Musica Viva. Does anybody know anything about copyright laws for that kind of things? Geocities is becoming somewhat known for snafus, but this does seem a bit strange. I looked around a bit, but couldn't discover any email address associated with this tune collection. Does anyone know who it belongs to? On a somewhat smaller scale, there used to be a few dozen tunes at www.celticmusic.co.nz, and they've all disappeared. Does anyone recognize this site, or know who it belonged to? Did they maybe move somewhere? That site belonged to someone named Mark Fitzsimons, and contained music in Celtic style composed by the webmaster. He is also supposed to have a home page at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markf/ but that's only an empty directory at the moment. A Google search for Mark Fitzsimons comes up with 96 hits, so I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to track him down. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] %%MIDI program/channel questions
Jean-Francois Moine wrote: Hello, Trying to have an organ on my PC computer, I have some questions about the %%MIDI pseudo-comments: - in abc2midi, the documentation says the MIDI program is in the range 1..128, while it seems to be in the range 0..127. Where is the truth? You're talking General midi here. The midi standard itself neithere specifies or limits the number of programs. Technically the General Midi programs are numbered 0-127, but many instruments and computer programs use the numbering 1-128 instead (or even 00-7F). You're definitwely not the only one who's confused about this ;-) There's a list of all the general midi programs at http://www.musicaviva.com/encyclopedia/g/general-midi.html Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
