Re: [abcusers] GHB ... it gets worse ...
You guys are awful *grin* I thought the entire procedure of learning the Highland Pipes is to make your fingers do something so unnatural and confusing that you'll never be able to type properly again! When I get my UP out and try to play it, it takes me a good ten minutes to reorganize my brain and fingers to make the thing squeak. I enjoy the banter, but I'm a little sad that both on here, and the other lists I've posted on, that I've not found the pot of gold I was looking for. Jack Campin wrote: A little dyslexia can get you in a whole lot trouble ... something about drugs, bagpipes and fighting in the UK hmm ...awareness about the dangers of GHB and its analogs- gamma hydroxy butyrate or maybe those who don't have GHB get into fights and get booked on GBH after being exposed to Great Highland Bagpipes, LOL. GHB is also used as a date rape drug - seems to be a particular hazard in Glasgow bars. I can see the potential for a really bad teuchter comes to the big city looking for some action joke... - Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack * food intolerance data recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM Embro, Embro. -- off-list mail to j-c rather than abc at this site, please -- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- |Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins| To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
Has anyone mentioned Noteworthy Composer? It's cheap and simple... Sometimes too simple. On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Here's what I would hope to have (and working properly without an argument!): 1. You can pre-set the key signature, time signature and tempo. 2. You can easily setup multiple staffs 3. You can click on a note value from a menu or toolbar and place it right where you want it. 4. You can double-click that note and change its pitch or duration by either keystrokes or by selecting a new duration (pitch changed by moving the note with the mouse. 5. You can enter notes next to, before on top of (i. e. chords) without any argument or user-friendly intervention. 6. You can save, cut paste, etc. ... all the usual editing features. 7. You can playback at any time without disturbing what you have. 8. The program is allowed to adjust note spacing for best appearance, but gives you the option of altering that to suit your own tastes. There is a program, less known than Finale or Sibelius, and cheaper, that I like very much. It is called Score Perfect Pro, it is made in Germany, and it pretty much does all the things you say you want, and it is very good. Take a look at http://www.scoretec.de I have used it for years (in fact I still do) on my old Atari, but nowadays it is a Windows program. On my linux box I use abcm2ps and also mup (www.arkkra.com). Very powerfull command line and text based apps with very good looking score output. -- Martin Tarenskeen To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Finale GHB
I don't know if I've asked this here or not, but there seem to be several Finale folks Any workaround to Finale's inablity to play GBH music (ornamentations gracenotes) as they should sound in GBH music? Further, does anyone have some sort of duration Table for each GHB ornament in case I'd like to try to program them in by hand? I.e., a Hard Throw on D is not a series of straight 32nd notes... These are programmed well into Bagpipe Writer/Reader/etc. I'd like to figure out how to to both enter these for proper playing into Finale, and better yet, I'd like to figure out how to add a macro menu, or plugins to insert them rather than arduously inserting them by hand. I just love how Coda music completely ignores the needs of it's paying customers I've never had an email responded to... There's no real tech support on the site, let alone a forum on Finale. Ooh.. maybe I should make a 'Finale Forum' using Php BB2. I bet a lot of people would like to contribute and share... I wonder if there is one in existance that I've never been able to find. //Christian //Christian -- Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] website with transcribtions of jazz solos
I looked, but I didn't see a single hornpipe or jig, or even a slow aire Who are all these people? They sound familiar *grin* Doncha hate it when people suffer from TradTunnelVision(Tm) ??? Atte André Jensen wrote: Hi all Some of you maybe remember that I used to have a website with jazz in abc. I eventually took it down since I was worried about copyrights. Now I put together a new site, with material that is not under copyright AFAIK, namely transcribtions of jazz solos. There's not a lot there yet, since I only recently started transcribing directly to abc and I don't fell like typing in the pile of solos I have on paper. I'm not gonna promise any steady update rate, but there *will* be new material from time to time. Also note that a couple of the transcribtions are not finished, which will be my first priority before putting more new stuff there. The address is: http://www.atte.dk/lines Any feedback is welcome, including fixes for writing mistakes in the music :-) -- |Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins| To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] [ABCp] Testsuite needed!
It might not be amiss for us to create a freely available repository on the sourceforge project page for people to add to and sample. Such has been discussed in the past, but I don't know if it's ever been done...leastwise, it's an oft asked question always with a piecemeal answer. //Christian Remo D. wrote: Hi! You wrote: I have some real-life files that often causes some software problems, since I tend to notate more chromatic music than most (what ever that means...). I could send you a few, if you'd like... Thanks, I'd appreciate! You could zip and send them to via email. If we you find any problem I'll try to find an FTP space somewhere. Thanks, Remo To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- |Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins| To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABCp proof of concept
John Chambers wrote: | well if my 2p are worth at least 2p to you, do it in ansi C if you want | anyone to use it. The advantages of portability and general | comprehensability outweigh some fun features that nonstandard extensions | may have. I like SNOBOL but I would avoid inflicting it on other people. I'd prefer ansi C, mostly because it's the least common denominator language that can be most easily included in the other C dialects and the extensible languages like tcl, perl and python. If I'm not mistaken, this is one issue that has been put to rest, and a consensus reached. The majority have spoken and all said pretty much the same thing... and I'm glad that even these recent posts support that decision. So.. the parser is to be written in C. What would everybody agree would be the next step? Remo's already researching API's... Sounds logical to me. If you were doing it yourself would establishment of an API (or the mere scaffolding of one) be the next step? My next step is to reclaim the AlphabetSoup project on sourceforge which has been wrongly been changed to being owned by 'thistledown' instead of me, 'thistledowne'. Then I'll see about changing the name from AlphabetSoup to ABCp since there seems to be group support for that name. //Christian M. Cepel aka thistledowne -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABCp proof of concept
Steven Bennett wrote: Jeff Szuhay wrote: Uh... Objective-C? :-P (Oh, I couldn't help myself. You can slap me for that one), I wouldn't slap you for that -- I almost answered the same thing myself, but I suspect I would have meant it more seriously... grin Objective-C was a big surprise to me when I was forced to learn it for a Mac programming contract. For a language which is basically standard C with a very small set of extensions to add OO support, it's both easy to use and surprisingly powerful. It took me only a couple of months to go from being a big C++ fan to being an even bigger Objective-C fan. I now use C++ only when forced to do so -- it's *so* limited and awkward in comparison. Yes.. This is EXACTLY the post I was trying to remember. Thank you. So how about it guys... a consensus on Straight ANSI C, or Objective-C for the parser. I'm going to see if I can change the unix name of AlphabetSoup to abcP or ABCp on sourceforge. Which do you guys like better? Feel free to login and join up. //Christian -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABCp proof of concept
Steven Bennett wrote: As much though I love and prefer Objective C, and would use it for my own projects, I'd still recommend straight ANSI C for this particular project, given it's stated goals. Mainly because Objective-C isn't very well known outside the Mac world, but also because there are runtime bindings (just like C++) which would have to be dealt with if you wanted to link Objective C into anything else. Bummer. -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] On parsers again - Outlook PHP
John Chambers wrote: Since ABC is widely used to send tunes via email, ABC ends up being embedded inside messages in lots of other formats. It's fairly common for this to garble the ABC, as the encoding software is usually debugged only with ordinary (English) text. Decoding is fairly haphazard, and it will be common for your software to encounter partly-decoded email messages that contain partly-decoded tunes. The sensible thing might be to just throw up your hands and refuse to deal with it. But you have a lot of companies working on a lot of email software doing their best to make life difficult for you. Ran into this nonsense mailing a gal a php proggie I had written for her to convert medline source references into CSV txt file... She (unfortunately everyone on campus who doesn't know any better) is using exchange. Finally had to send her a zip. lt;?php and so on and so forth. -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] On parsers again - Outlook PHP
John Chambers wrote: Christian M. Cepel writes: | John Chambers wrote: | | Since ABC is widely used to send tunes via email, ABC ends up being | embedded inside messages in lots of other formats. It's fairly common | for this to garble the ABC, as the encoding software is usually | debugged only with ordinary (English) text. ... | Ran into this nonsense mailing a gal a php proggie I had written for her | to convert medline source references into CSV txt file... | | She (unfortunately everyone on campus who doesn't know any better) is | using exchange. Finally had to send her a zip. | | lt;?php | | and so on and so forth. Yeah; in this list we notice how email software damages ABC, but it's a well-known problem in most programming languages. Back before 1990, when most email software was written by programmers for programmers, it was less common (though it did happen). But then the commercial folks jumped onto this new Internet thing, and they decided to scrap all that techie stuff and write user-friendly software. The results were generally programmer-hostile. It effects everyone who tries to use email to send anything that is formatted differently from English. In ABC, a string like A2B4c2 will be treated as six tokens by most intelligent email software, and newlines may be inserted anywhere. When one is inserted before one of the numbers, the result usually doesn't work correctly, since most ABC software doesn't know what to do with a number at the start of a line/staff. But this has been at least a minor headache for programmers since we first had email back in the 70's. Despite attempts to make email standards that prevent such damage, the problem is probably worse now than ever. What's funny is all the software that wraps lines at 80 or 72 chars. This is referred to in the literature as the symptom of a punch card mind. How many computer users nowadays have ever seen or used a punch card? I have a couple in a box as souvenirs. That 72 is especially bizarre. How many people these days could even tell you where that strange number comes from? But lots of software does it. I guess you could call it a tradition ... To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html I'd just like to kill the makers of Eudora for setting the default settings of their mail software to UUencode attachments but still send them out with the original mime-type.My boss would send me stuff via eudora all the time.. say a word doc... download it.. open it in word (hey. the mime-type extension are correct) only to see a 644 begin line. Have to ftp it up to unix, uudecode, ftp it back and then open it. -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] On parsers again
I would prefer that it have optional modes... Strict, not-so-strict, loose/forgiving, recover ABC from any textfile, etc... something. Work on the strict first... get it universal. Once it's refined, add optional graceful handling of aberrations... eventually make it able to sort any garbage to be included and ignored, or discarded. For instance if I wanted to take an ABC file written in another program and including codes for rendering inside, and wanted to run it through an editor I created that forced the ABC standard and helped me write good ABC, and then take it back to the originating program, I would not want to loose the work I'd done to lay it out... I'd have that _and_ a more syntactically correct source. Richard Walker wrote: abc is hard to parse because it has grown and been extended by people who write it without worrying about how computers will deal with it. Seems like a parser should only deal with what is the current standard. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC parser output data structure.
Steven Bennett wrote: I was going to let this idea die quietly... sigh If we were talking about creating a data interchange format, I'd agree 100%. But we're talking about creating a general purpose front-end parser that can be linked into assorted ABC programs so they don't have to write their own parser. Having the output of that be a text format defeats the whole purpose, because each application would then need to write it's own parser for *that* format. This SPECIFICALLY is what has confused me regarding this whole discussion... When I proposed the idea of a universal parser, I stated with NO AMBIGUITY that it was not to generate text. It was to have a control API which would could be asked questions and return answers. Once the file is parsed, a possible method would be list_titles(1,10) to return the primary titles of the first 10 tunes. This is just an example... not a well thought out API function... Anyways... an API of useful commands to glean information from the file, as well as commands to alter it. I would not object if it had a function to generate_musicxml() or something like that, but that would not be it's primary function. It's been suggested that such a second-stage parser would be a trivial job to write. As a programmer who has written a number of parsers of various complexity over my career, and looking at the amount and complexity of the data we're talking about, I'd have to say that trivial is doubtful. It's probably not a complex task, assuming the text format is designed properly, is totally unambiguous, comprehensive, and flexible enough to do the job. But it's bound to be tedious and time consuming. I suggest anyone who thinks this is a trivial job should actually design such an intermediate text format, and then try and write a parser for that format. Let me know how long it takes. ;-) As a final thought - if anyone *really* wants to see text output from such a parser, let the parser be written to output C structures or whatever the programmers want, then they can write their own back end to the parser to convert the output into any text output format desired. It should be relatively easy to do. And everyone can be happy. --Steve Bennett Jeff Szuhay wrote: On Wednesday, July 28, 2004, at 03:43 pm, Bernard wrote: [snip] The maximum is ascii. You can even read it without a computer. Flexibility is maximum in ascii. A new keyword is added and the old software doesn't understand the keyword and will ignore it. The problem of upgrading software is old software which won't read the new software's output at all. [snip] I agree completely with this. In fact, for the past 10 years, the whole of computing has moved towards ascii-based (character-based) data interchange standards away from binary data formats. To wit, SGML, HTML and its variants, XML, as well as scripting languages which remain text based and uncompiled (binary data). As an example, Perl, Python, Javascript run on more platforms than I know. A powerful database environment I worked in years go made every record available as text (it lives on in Universe and multi-value databases). LaTex and PostScript ... text based. The only (bad) reason to not use ascii for text based data IMNSHO is when a vendor wants to maintain control of their proprietary data format. Good for them but a real PITA for everyone else. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC parser output data structure.
Yes, absolutely, the discussion should stay here. The real purpose of sourceforge is simply to enable collaboration with CVS, and project tracking and such. Chuck Boody wrote: You are not boring me. I haven't much to contribute right now, but am following the discussion and may have comments later. I would hope the discussion stays here. Chuck Boody On Monday, July 26, 2004, at 08:52 PM, Paul Rosen wrote: I've finally gotten a few free moments of time, and started thinking about Hey, if you'd like to volunteer to head up the project, it's still looking for a project head to get it started. Thanks, but, did you notice the word few ;-) I'm not sure how much time I can devote to it. I'll see what I can do. Just go to sourceforge.org and search for the Alphabet Soup project and register to be a project member, and I'll promote you to head it up. I'll register. I'm a little reluctant to take the conversation over there, though, until everyone who's interested signs up. Are we boring anyone here? Paul Rosen --- Life is a musical, every once in a while the plot stops and you start singing and dancing --- http://home.earthlink.net/~catharsis.music/ http://home.earthlink.net/~theplums/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Issues with abcm2ps---help! Profanity.
I'm going to top post _AND_ snip for those of you who hate that, as it's a slightly different thread. Hey Andrew, this is off topic, but I thought you might like a heads up if you're in the same position I was in... After reading hearing the word in so many different contexts, I'd started using it casually, thinking it was the equivalent of 'damn', or some such. Indeed it seemed thrown around in such a way that I figured it could not possibly be offensive to anybody. I then later in life missed a chord in my folk guitar class in college and let it slip under my breath... My Australian teacher made it clear to me that the word has all the same meanings and connotations as the f word, both in her home of Australia, and also in other places sharing the same common vocabularies. I had thought it a word one could use in casual conversation, and found out that some find it quite offensive. Oh well, it was my bad... just thought you might like to know, in case you get into a situation where it really matters, and offend someone you didn't mean to, or didn't want to offend. //Christian M. Cepel Andrew Lenz, Jr. wrote: Bugger. I'm now wondering if it might change with the default note length. Probably shouldn't, but I could try and see. Thanks! Andrew Andrew T. Lenz, Jr. www.BagpipeJourney.com Santa Cruz, California U.S.A. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Copyright Issues addressed (fwd)
This is groovy, but I'm a mite confused by the following... It seems contradictory to my small brain, but prolly is not Could you help me to understand? Perhaps I need to paste earlier rows as well... but these were the ones that troubled me. Unpublished works created before 1978 that were published before 1 January 2003 Life of the author + 70 years or 31 December 2047, whichever is greater Nothing. The soonest the works can enter the public domain is 1 January 2048 Unpublished works created before 1978 that were published after 31 December 2002 Life of the author + 70 years Works of authors who died before 1934. I. Oppenheim wrote: -- Forwarded message -- Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:00:02 -0400 From: George Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: World music from a Jewish slant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Copyright Issues addressed Pardon the cross-listing but since questions about copyright come up frequently on this list, I thought I'd direct your attention to this: Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm A reference chart to help you to determine the copyright status of a given work Best, g -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org/ a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ To unsubscribe email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and have your message read: unsubscribe jewish-music -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -= To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Issues with abcm2ps---help! Profanity.
You're exactly right in that it's in the 'hearer' that the distinction is drawn. I was taught by one friend and native Hindi speaker to jokingly call people 'pagel' or 'pagelpan' to call them crazy, and the same by a Taiwanese speaking friend to call someone 'san-ba' for the same purpose (it's pure Taiwanese, so those who are trying to make sense of it in Mandarin... it is what it says it just makes sense to them), and by a Korean friend to say 'michin'... For every single phrase, which I was told was completely innocuous, I've said it 'around' not 'to' a different native speaker, and had them react in absolute horror and shock at my profanity The people who taught me, were not disingenuous, quite the opposite, and they were quite surprised when I told them of my plight. Now.. I'm not going to tell the story of the Japanese business man who was told to thank the Russian businessmen around the conference table at the end of his presentation by saying 'igo nahooey'. :) //Christian M. Cepel Guy Gascoigne - Piggford wrote: Well coming from England I'd have to say that I've never thought that it was anywhere near as bad as the 'f' word. Yes I do know what the word refers to and so it would make sense for it to be just as offensive, but I never found it to be the case in either Birmingham or London when I lived there. Now, as a Brit living in America I've become very away of how we gauge the depth of swearing based on the expectation of the listener. Back home I could say something and not have to guess about how it might be interpreted, over here I've become much more aware of what will and won't be understood as I intended. Most Americans that I've been exposed to, seem to think that saying the B word simply marks me as one of those weird Brits, and I guess that is the case whenever one uses slang that isn't commonly used by the majority of listeners. For example, what happens when an Australian asks for a roll of Durex in an English shop, or a Brit asks for a fag in San Fransisco. Oh what fun, it's bad enough when they use completely different names for things, but when the same name has such completely different meanings, well you get the idea. As an aside, since the meaning of the work is merely crude rather than blasphemous, i believe that it would count as swearing rather than profanity :) Sorry for the endless stream of blurb, but I really find this sort of thing very interesting :) Guy Andrew Lenz, Jr. wrote: Christian, I then later in life missed a chord in my folk guitar class in college and let it slip under my breath... My Australian teacher made it clear to me that the word has all the same meanings and connotations as the f word, both in her home of Australia, and also in other places sharing the same common vocabularies. Wow. Good to know. I thought, what I know now, to be the B (Australian B word) was equivalent to fooey. I stand corrected! Yipe! Andrew To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html . To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- || Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO| that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri-Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The ABC homepage
Well if he wants it, it's a debian linux account that he can have ftp access to. Php, MySql, etc the whole 9 yards enabled, 5gb bandwidth, pop accounts, configurable subdomains, and quite a bit of space. Unlimited domains if neither of those are suitable. I'm still getting the runaround about abcmusic.org. John Chambers wrote: Christian M. Cepel writes: | Noticed that the address changed from | http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc to | http://staffweb.cms.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc | | When did that happen? | | Btw... If Chris ever wants webspace hosted at abcnotation.org or | abcmusicnotation.org, he's welcome to it for free. I'm trying to get | abcmusic.org as well, but haven't had much luck as of yet. While we're at it, we oughta persuade Chris to put more abc tunes online. He's gotta have more than the two dozen or so on his old web site. And he probably has a lot of bagpipe versions. I wonder where they are? To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] The ABC homepage
Noticed that the address changed from http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc to http://staffweb.cms.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc When did that happen? Btw... If Chris ever wants webspace hosted at abcnotation.org or abcmusicnotation.org, he's welcome to it for free. I'm trying to get abcmusic.org as well, but haven't had much luck as of yet. -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Nastiness. [Was Unicode]
Steven Bennett wrote: Christian M. Cepel wrote: It was my understanding that all unicode character sets contain English characters mapped to the same values they're mapped to in other sets. Close -- Unicode is a *single* character set. For convenience, you'll frequently run into references to Unicode code pages, but all they are is a range within the overall character set. All characters from every encoding that Unicode supports exist somewhere in that character set. So with a Unicode (UTF-8 or UTF-16) encoded text file you could easily have English, Chinese, Korean, Russian, and Symbol characters all in the same sentence. You know, about 3 years ago while in a SoftEng class, I started Thistledowne, and voiced my intentions to make it unicode16 native. I was SUPER rudely kicked in the nuts by some on this list and then thrown in the doghouse while a major flamewar resulted.. well not a flamewar exactly. I was the target, and was bombed without mercy. I was told Hey stupid, ABC is strictly 7bit ascii, and there's damn good reasons why it's that way, so wanting to use Unicode is stupid and you should kill yourself for even thinking of it. God people were mean and rude and nasty, along with the typical Oh...Yet another abc project... And you're excited... Tell me what's gonna make your project shine over the hundreds of projects done by people who are probably better than you. Go jump in a lake. response. Oh I continued my project, and got an A, and scrapped it and will used what I learned there for my new project. Boy, I learned never to tell people on the list I had a project going. Sure a few were encouraging, but who could hear their voice over the nastiness. //Christian Another convenient item is that the first Unicode code page 0x0001 - 0x007f is the ASCII code. So if you're using wchar instead of char as your string pointer type, then comparisons like: if (str[0] == 'K') ...will work the same when using Unicode or ASCII. The only difference is now str points to an array of 16 bit values instead of 8 bit ones. --Steve Bennett To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] File names
Phil Taylor wrote: On 29 Apr 2004, at 08:34, Stephen Kellett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On 29 Apr 2004, at 00:32, Steven Bennett wrote: According to Apple docs (I'll take their word for it... ;): 0x2028 -- Unicode line separator 0x2029 -- Unicode paragraph separator Thank you Steve, Pardon my ignorance, but how do you know that you're dealing with Unicode here, rather than the ascii ( and )? I guess its a problem for some charsets, but for Western ones, the high byte of the two will be NULL. Thus you can scan the text and if you find NULL Bytes before the end of the string (I assume you know your string length) followed by a non-NULL byte you can assume its Unicode. abc is the characters 65, 66, 67 abc in ASCII is 0x41, 0x42, 0x43 abc in Unicode is 0x00,0x41, 0x00,0x42, 0x00,0x43 but in 16 bit lumps rather than 8 bit. OK, I understand that. What was bothering me though, is how Steven B's parser is going to deal with regular ascii strings which include a space followed by a bracket. It's no problem when everything is unicode, or everything is ascii, but if we are to have ascii abc which may include unicode strings, we will need a way of indicating this to the parser, will we not? Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Would not a charset specifier be a good addition? (if there is already such, I shall be most embarrassed... as I am pretty much every day). A rule such as, if you use something specific to a charset, you must specify it otherwise expect it to be 7bit ascii and display wrongly. -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Gnashing teeth of Mac Haters
Stephen Kellett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steven Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes things about Macs I didn't know Thats really distressing. I no longer have a valid reason to dislike Macs :-) They fixed the two things I really hated. Gnash. Stephen Heh. I'm typing this on my G3Pismo running Panther :) I'd have to say that I hate em all, Macs, Pcs running *nix or windoze. They all conspire to make my worklife and homelife miserable. But.. the real reason I write... Mac has finally clued in by adding alt-tab (apple-tab really) app switching, and in Panther, even adding the little bar that pops up showing all the apps and which one you're on and which one you're going to once you release the keys (i.e., win alt-tab functionality as opposed to alt-esc). I will be happier with mac however when I no longer have to use the mouse all together. Where ever pulldown has a hot letter that you can alt-letter to open the menu and then each item inside has a hot-letter to select and expand it, etc. I want this as part of the OS, not an extension written by someone else. I hate using photoshop on Mac where I have to mouse drag where I normally alt-i-i to open image size, or alt-i-c for canvas size, or alt-i-p to crop, or to do any transformations, etc. Also, when I can tab through ever button in a dialog box, or alt-letter to a button, and in browsers when I can tab to every field and keyboard my way to things in option form items Then I'll be happier. -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] File names
I'm just doublechecking since this conversation spun off of the universal parser conversation... This conversation, while interesting doesn't actually pertain to the parser does it? I've been trying to follow it in case it does. My understanding is that a parser will not do any file handling, and that the super program calling it will do all the filehandleing. Is this correct? To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] AlphabetSoup - Unified ABC Parser - Approved
Wow.. nice and quick. Subject: SourceForge.net Project Approved Your project registration for SourceForge.net has been approved. Project Information: Project Descriptive Name: AlphabetSoup - ABC Music Notation Parser Project Unix Name: alphabetsoup CVS Server:cvs.sourceforge.net Shell Server: shell.sourceforge.net Web Server:alphabetsoup.sourceforge.net Project Administration: The Project Admin page for your project may be accessed at https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/?group_id=108023 after logging-in. Service Availability for New Projects: The DNS for your project web site may take up to 24 hours to become active. Until DNS is active for your project, attempts to access your project web site will result in 404 errors. Once DNS is active, you will see an empty directory index when accessing your project web site, until you have placed content in your project web space (remember: project web space is provided solely for use in storing project-related information; see the Web section of the Project Admin page for additional details). Your access to the project shell and CVS servers (including your new CVS repository, which has already been initialized and is ready for your first import) are typically available within four hours from the time when your project was approved. If after 6 hours your shell/CVS accounts still do not work, please submit a Support Request (on the alexandria project, see below), so as that we may look in to the problem. Site Documentation and Support: SourceForge.net maintains a large amount of documentation about the SourceForge.net site and services offered to hosted projects. This documentation may be accessed using the Site Docs link in the left navbar, or directly at: https://sourceforge.net/docman/?group_id=1 Should you need to contact the SourceForge.net team, we may be reached by submitting a Support Request at: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=addgroup_id=1atid=21 Reminder: Acceptable Use and Project Licensing: By using the SourceForge.net site, you agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of the SourceForge.net Terms of Use Agreement. SourceForge.net provides hosting solely for Open Source software development projects; if your project is not being released under an Open Source license, or is not developing software, please contact the SourceForge.net team immediately for assistance. Questions regarding acceptable use of the SourceForge.net site and resources should be directed to the SourceForge.net team by submitting a Support Request (see above). Donation System: SourceForge.net provides a donation system that allows users and projects to accept donations on an opt-in basis. You may opt-in your user account to receive donations at: https://sourceforge.net/my/donate_manage.php You may opt-in this project to receive donations at: https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/donations.php?group_id=108023 Documentation on the donation system may be found at: https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=20244group_id=1 Getting Started: A significant amount of project service information may be found on the Project Admin pages for your project, as seen at: https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/?group_id=108023 The Project Admin page for your project is the best place to start. Please ensure that you have established a suitable Public Description for your project, and have categorized your project within the Trove; both of these operations may be performed using the Public Info section of your Project Admin pages. Enjoy the system, and please tell others about SourceForge.net. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help you (we can always be reached by submitting a Support Request on the alexandria project (see above)). -- the SourceForge.net crew To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] reusable parser
Jeremy Cowgar wrote: Keep it in C++. Anyone can compile and use a C++ program. I would suggest using a GNU based GCC. It can then easily be compiled on about any OS using GCC, MinGW, etc... and the binary can be used by someone who does not have the proper run time. Jeremy To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html There seems to be considerable interest in the idea, as well as a lot of differing opinions as to how to implement the idea. No one has yet said anything against the choice of sourceforge to give the project structure and direction. Can anyone offer any reasons this is not a good idea? I'm not sure if that was Jack's intentions, or if he was discussing implementation ideas. Stephen seemed better able to understand the intent, and it left me a bit clearer. Anyways. if anyone is harboring reservations against the idea, please speak up. There ideas that seem good that should still _not_ be implemented. If you have a reason, please share. But... Since most seems positive, even if the details might be left to be hashed out... Does anyone feel up to stepping up to the plate as head of such a project. Bert has made a kind offer, but I must admit that I don't have the knowledge to know quite what he's offering. I guess the job description asks for someone who is more of a systems analyst, than strictly a programmer. Someone who is capable of seeing the project through the long haul, capable of negotiating seas of differing opinions and ideas, capable of understanding the nitty gritty of building such a beast, and capable of arbitrating and encouraging a group of what are typically an egocentric bunch of programmers with vastly different skills and backgrounds. Submit your resumes *laugh*. Guess I need to get me a SourceForge account... And talk the lovely wife into the letting me budget the expense. That is of course assuming the eventual leader will accept me as a contributing team member :) //Christian -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!
Thank you Jack. I've a better understanding now. And David... That just couldn't work. It's far too simple, and just makes too much sense :) How 'unofficially official' is the 1.7.6 standard? Is it still open for change, or could there be an intermediate between it and 2.0? I've never understood the versioning system used for abc. I think, despite reading quite a bit, there are still quite a few things I do not understand. //Christian David Webber wrote: From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The point of having ! in the middle of a line is that that's the ONLY place where it can have a positive effect on readability. Having it at the end of a line is the ONLY place where it has a consistently negative effect on it (since it's redundant there). Thanks. That was my understanding. If this is so popular, then perhaps !pp! etc should be changed to +pp+ in the 1.76 spec, to make it agree with the 2.0 spec (in which I assume all the reasons discussed led to this definition). Dave David Webber Author MOZART the music processor for Windows - http://www.mozart.co.uk For discussion/support see http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!
I'm not the person to lead such an endeavor, but I'd love to be a part of it and work on it. I would assume that such a beast would be written in straight ansi c to make it available to any present or future operating system sporting a c compiler, as well as to make it as small and as resource non-intensive as possible. The most important aspect of the project would be documentation. It would require a very clear, useful, and functional API... I think. Any volunteers with the requisite skills? Neil Jennings wrote: Sounds a great idea, but I would probably not be able to contribute, as I am locked into VB. I presume any such parser would have to create the output as an object suitable for use by all the other programs. Design of this would be a major undertaking. Neil - Original Message - From: Christian M. Cepel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 April 2004 20:34 Subject: Re: [abcusers] !Current specification! Might it not be interesting to start a project on Sourceforge with CVS tracking for a centralized open source parser module or engine that can be utilized by everyone? If the parser were being written in lockstep with the specification, proper design might indeed be the result. Kindof an evolution meets extreme programming approach. (Not that I really ever understood Extreme programming). Would anyone else be interested in such? Neil Jennings wrote: The draft standard seems to contain many things which make life difficult for parsers. A bit of proper design could have avoided this. I shoud throw my parser away and start again - but it would take some time! There is so much else to write without having to waste time reinventing wheels. - Original Message - From: Christian M. Cepel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 April 2004 15:32 Subject: Re: [abcusers] !Current specification! I was thinking about this last night...and I don't see a problem with parsing for a *x* token, a !x! token and ! at the end of a line, even if there are whitespace characters between ! and your EOL token. A backwards compatible, or version insensitive parser, which would be the kindest to your end user who may have grabbed a tune off the net, and not even have looked at the abc, or know even how to edit the abc, would be the best option not insensitive about all things, but kind enough to recognize that !x! is valid 1.7.6 stuff and display it. You could even make your software encourage use of the newer constructs.Your tune contains outdated notation that can easily be brought up to date w/o changing the way it displays or sounds when played. Would you like to update the notation? Y/N A bit Microsoft word-esk, but even so. Would this not be so? Btw, abcmusicnotation.org and abcnotation.org should be well on their way, propagating through dns servers and available to most. David Webber wrote: From: Neil Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] In 2.0, there is a %% directive in which the version is specified. I would expect that this would be mandatory if the file is written using 2.0 standard or later, otherwise there wouldn't be much point in having it. Ok that helps. But it still seems pretty silly making a new official standard (1.7.6) with !pp! while the draft 2.0 standard deprecates it in favour of using ! for something else and using +pp+. Dave David Webber Author MOZART the music processor for Windows - http://www.mozart.co.uk For discussion/support see http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL
Re: [abcusers] reusable parser
Jack Campin wrote: \[order fixed - please don't top-post] Stephen Kellett wrote: Christian M. Cepel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I would assume that such a beast would be written in straight ansi c to make it available to any present or future operating system sporting a c compiler, as well as to make it as small and as resource non-intensive as possible. C++ Surely? C is very restrictive in comparison. Writing object based code in C is hard work (read: un-necessary extra code, and lack of type safety) compared to C++. Resource economy is a non-issue - it's not going to be that big and by the time it's done, any computer that will use it will be much, much bigger and faster than anything now running ABC software. Java and C# are not worthwhile alternatives. Both quite restrictive because nothing is truly passed as a reference (try modifying a string object you pass in and see if it really was changed after the method call - if it was really passed as a reference it would be). Makes things trivial in C and C++ a real pain in Java and C#. But, things relevant to this problem? Sharing by reference is a great way to make code less maintainable, and parsers don't need to do it, ever. If they were easier to compile into libraries, SML, Haskell, Lisp or Prolog would be better options - they all have a hell of a lot of accumulated experience in use for parsing refractory syntaxes. Is this a case of if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a folk singer? - Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack * food intolerance data recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM Embro, Embro. -- off-list mail to j-c rather than abc at this site, please -- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html I'm afraid you've lost me once again. I suffer from small brain condition. I'm not sure if you're for or against the idea of an open source shared parsing engine, and for it, what shape you suggest it take. I also fail to see the concern with top posting, but then I spoze people must have their pet peeves. -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Current specification - Deathlike appearance.
Quote from that website... *There has been a draft for a revised standard (with version number 1.7.6 and dated 08/05/00), but it never acquired an official status. * I know there is lots of debate regarding 1.7.6 and 2.0, but I fail to understand why 1.7.6 cannot be given official status for the sake of developers. 1.7.6 is, I think, less controversial than 2.0, and has largely been accepted, and offers many advantages for programmers/abc notaters who are seeking to both stay strictly to standard AND provide the most comprehensively functioning program and well notated music. I think, also, that making 1.7.6 official would sort of codify certain things that would then apply and give direction to those working on / debating the 2.0 proposed draft. I believe, it also looks bad, when Chris' website is the most linked to 'introduction to the ABC concept' and the last official standard was approved of 'umpteen odd' years ago. It looks like little official work has been done on ABC and like so many things you may visit on the internet, has been allowed to weaken and die. Having been on this list for over 5 years, I know that that is certainly NOT the case. On a side note.. For simplicity, and for future, I just registered AbcMusicNotation.org, and AbcNotation.org and will be pointing them to Chris' site, unless of course I'm asked not to. I tried to register abcmusic.org, but it was already registered to a Nicki Bannister of Birmingham, West Midlands, GB. When I visit that site, I find a domain registration site that is squatting on abcmusic.org, as well as: abcmusic.co.uk abcmusic.com abcmusic.net abcmusic.org.uk abcmusic.ltd.uk abcmusic.plc.uk Way uncool. I'm mailing them to see exactly what their intentions are for these sites (I'm assuming squatting). //Christian M. Cepel David Webber wrote: From: Bert Van Vreckem [EMAIL PROTECTED] The home of the 2.0 standard is http://abc.sf.net/standard/, but I think Irwin Oppenheim, who prepared the 2.0 draft, has not recently worked on it... Thanks Bert, I'll re-read it. Dave David Webber Author MOZART the music processor for Windows - http://www.mozart.co.uk For discussion/support see http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Current specification - Deathlike appearance.
A couple of revisions I believe, it also looks bad, when Chris' website is the most linked to 'introduction to the ABC concept' and the last official standard was approved of 'umpteen odd' years ago. It looks like little official work has been done on ABC and like so many things you may visit on the internet, has been allowed to weaken and die. Having been on this list for over 5 years, I know that that is certainly NOT the case. The best thing appearancewise of approving 1.7.6 as official is that the date it is made official is date that is shown when people look and see when recent work has been done on the specification.. I.e., some date in the not too distant future (I hope). Added to that the longstanding discussion of the 2.0 standard looks like more work is continuing on the back of recent work (which is true, but I sound like a politition worrying about appearance). I just would love it if ABC's popularity grew such that Finale included it as an import/export feature (Maybe they do, but they've yet to send me an upgrade offer from 2001 that persuades me that it's worth the cost... especially after annoying me with 600 letters a month each one warning me that I'm running out of time to take them up on their offer...) course I'm asked not to. I tried to register abcmusic.org, but it was already registered to a Nicki Bannister of Birmingham, West Midlands, GB. When I visit that site, I find a domain registration site that is squatting on abcmusic.org, as well as: abcmusic.co.uk abcmusic.com abcmusic.net abcmusic.org.uk abcmusic.ltd.uk abcmusic.plc.uk Way uncool. I'm mailing them to see exactly what their intentions are for these sites (I'm assuming squatting). I may have been mistaken in my assumptions here. Abcmusic.ltd.uk, and abcmusic.plc.uk were being shown as 'available' on that website, not squatted on... and it looks like at least some different folks have registered these sites, so it's not a case of squatting.. abcmusic.org - Squatted or reserved, no public development. Redirect to Registration page. abcmusic.co.uk - Developed website abcmusic.net - German site, trap online shopping redirect. abcmusic.com - Reserved and DNS'd, but not pointed to any webserver. If that person is on here and needs free webhosting for the cause of furthering abc, let me know and I might be able to offer you something for you to develop on. abcmusic.org.uk - Squatted or reserved, no public development. Redirect to Registration page... Looks even more likely to be squatted as there is no name given for the registrant. Just wanted to correct this before someone came down on me hard for my mistaken assumptions. //Christian To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC and MusicXML
I had not considered using separate voicing for chords. Thanks. Regarding lining up barlines... I had thought that spaces in position 0 on a line were illegal. IE, the # here fe|d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2e2 egfe| ###d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 :| Either way, I'm going to use your examples to go back and reformat many tunes. Thanks. //Christian Jack Campin wrote: There's a few things that prove to be making reading ABC on the fly a real difficult task. I wonder what other people feel about my stumbling stones. 1. inline chords. Flotsom floating down midstream making navigation difficult. Yes, better to put them in a separate voice if possible. 2. spacing on either side of barlines... this actually is a very helpful deliniation for me... the problem arises with the numbered repeats |1 and :|2... all the programs I've tried only recognize these 'tokens' provided they do not have those spaces I like so much for readability | 1 aBc aBc :| 2 abc abc | No. Barlines are far less obtrusive if you align your source properly, and taking three characters to express each one can soon run you out of columns in attempting to align a complicated piece. Any readability problem with this? X:1 T:The Rose Tree M:C| L:1/8 Q:1/2=112 K:D fe|d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2e2 egfe| d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 :| de|f2e2 f2g2|a2ba g2f2|e2b2 b2a2|b2e2 egfe| d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 :| and if you want repeats, this is more readable than your way, as the [1 notation says clearly what the numeral is for and you only use one way of expressing the repeat boundary rather than two depending on where in the bar the repeat starts: X:2 T:The Rose Tree M:C| L:1/8 Q:1/2=112 K:D fe|d2B2 A2F2| A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2e2 egfe| d2B2 A2F2| A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 :| de|f2e2 f2g2| a2ba g2f2|e2b2 b2a2|b2e2 egfe| d2B2 A2F2|[1 A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 :| [2 ABAF A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 |] Though usually you'd write this instead, making the repeat unit a more meaningful piece of musical structure: X:3 T:The Rose Tree M:C| L:1/8 Q:1/2=112 K:D fe|d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2e2 egfe| d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 :| de|f2e2 f2g2|a2ba g2f2|e2b2 b2a2|b2e2 egfe| [1 d2B2 A2F2|A4 A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 :| [2 d2B2 A2F2|ABAF A2AB|d4 e2de|f2d2 d2 |] And it's usually easier to find a reasonable staff notation layout for 20 bars than is for 19, e.g,. for five bars to a line: X:4 T:The Rose Tree M:C| L:1/8 Q:1/2=112 K:D fe|d2B2 A2F2| A4 A2AB| d4 e2de| f2e2 egfe|\ d2B2 A2F2|!A4 A2AB| d4 e2de| f2d2 d2 :|\ de|f2e2 f2g2| a2ba g2f2|!e2b2 b2a2| b2e2 egfe|\ [1 d2B2 A2F2| A4 A2AB| d4 e2de|!f2d2 d2 :|\ [2 d2B2 A2F2| ABAF A2AB| d4 e2de| f2d2 d2 |] - Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack * food intolerance data recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM Embro, Embro. -- off-list mail to j-c rather than abc at this site, please -- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC and MusicXML
What? No xhtml compliance? p / John Chambers wrote: html Neil Jennings writes: blockquote MusicXML is plain text, just as all the markup languages are, but that doesn't mean you don't have to decode it. Can you decode even simple HTML by just reading it?. MusicXML needs to be read along with the DTD. /blockquote p Well, yes, that's technically true. HTML was intended to be a simple, unobtrusive markup that wouldn't interfere with readability. I like to illustrate this by adding HTML to my message, which I'll do now . p But most of the HTML you see in email is utterly unreadable by the typical human. We can expect that most MusicXML will be similar computer gibberish. Neither could be remotely called plain text. p Of course, it's easy to find ABC that's nearly as unreadable. p (Maybe we should refer ABC newbies to Jack Campin for lessons in making readable ABC. ;-) p I hope the list server doesn't strip out this HTML ... /html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC and MusicXML
With this in mind, I've been struggleing while editing ABC lately. I'm not real good at reading music or ABC on the fly due to learing disability (latent cognition between reading and comprehending). There's a few things that prove to be making reading ABC on the fly a real difficult task. I wonder what other people feel about my stumbling stones. 1. inline chords. Flotsom floating down midstream making navigation difficult. 2. spacing on either side of barlines... this actually is a very helpful deliniation for me... the problem arises with the numbered repeats |1 and :|2... all the programs I've tried only recognize these 'tokens' provided they do not have those spaces I like so much for readability | 1 aBc aBc :| 2 abc abc | anyone else struggle with these? P J Headford comments: | Just a reminder ... | ABC is not just a computer thing. | I know quite a few musicians who can play you the tune from the ABC | notation. This is worth repeating periodically as a reminder of one of ABC's main features. One example from last year: I got email from someone saying that their daughter wanted to learn a tune for a musical contest, and it was available online, but they were having problems getting software to convert it to readable music. I recommended that she learn to read the ABC directly, and sent a brief description of how ABC works. A day or so later, I got another message saying that she had learned the tune from the ABC and was busy practicing. One of the benefits of any plain-text data format is that you don't necessarily need any fancy tools to read it. Plain text does work against the fancy formatting, fonts, etc. that you can get with more complex tools. But if you just want the information, plain text can be a lot better than the fancier formats. Of course, there's a lot of ABC that's poorly formatted and difficult to read, justasreadingruntogetherEnglishtextwouldbe. But that's not a problem with ABC itself. | Also, when I'm in a session and someone plays a tune I'd like to remember, | I can simply note down the first few bars in ABC more quickly (and more | legibly) in ABC than stave notation. If you look up Chris Walshaw's story on how he invented ABC, you'll see that this was exactly where he started. He was familiar with TeX and MusicTeX, and it occurred to him that a simple translator could turn his alphabetic notation into music notation. The result was abc2mtex. But the original form of ABC was handwritten music. | From what is being said on the list, I gather MusicXML would not have this | interface to the real world. MusicXML is intended as a computer-friendly music notation. It's not at all a replacement or competitor for ABC. The advent of powerful word processor software hasn't eliminated the usefulness of plain-text documents, and it's likely that ABC will continue to be used despite all the powerful music software that's being developed. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Christian Marcus Cepel | And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Exporting to Midi.
I'm sure this has been covered before, but does anyone have a favored way of generating a midi file from abc? I own ABC2Win, and have been playing with BarFly. I've been unable to redirect PlayQABC output to the midi synth to a file... I would think it's possible, but I've not been able to figure it out. So.. looking for favorite methods... preferably a player that's aware of the Rhythm R: field, rolls and repeats and the like and plays them correctly PlayQABC may be primitive, but it does alright :) Thanks Oh.. btw.. operating systems avail are Win2k, MacOsX, and *nix, provided admin access is not necessary. -- //Christian Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.999.2370 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Questions about ABC2Win
I've two questions. 1. Someone posted a while back asking for beta testers for a soundcard using (as opposed to through the pc speaker) add on to ABC2Win to replace PlayQABC. I volunteered... Never got a response. Any word from anyone on this? 2. Does anyone know if Jim Vint might be willing to release the source for ABC2Win to someone who would like to update it to handle long filenames introduced in Win95 w/o reverting to the 8.3 namespace? Maybe with a few caveats as to what or how things may be changed I.e., so that any trust issues are satisfied. I love my ABC2Win, but I'd like this one thing updated, and I know no further update is being done or is planned to be done.(or at least I think I know that *grin*) //Christian To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Questions about ABC2Win
Hrm.. I had gotten the impression that he'd kindof gone underground where this list is concerned.. I'm not sure why I had that impression.. Thank.. I'll try that. Gary Sibio wrote: At 12:56 PM 12/18/2003, you wrote: 2. Does anyone know if Jim Vint might be willing to release the source for ABC2Win to someone who would like to update it to handle long filenames introduced in Win95 w/o reverting to the 8.3 namespace? Maybe with a few caveats as to what or how things may be changed I.e., so that any trust issues are satisfied. I love my ABC2Win, but I'd like this one thing updated, and I know no further update is being done or is planned to be done.(or at least I think I know that *grin*) Why don't you ask Jim Vint? Whenever I've asked him a question, he's always answered in a few hours. Gary J Sibio [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~garysibio/ You know you're having a bad day when Elton John rewrites the lyrics to Candle in the Wind for you. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Cattle
Just go with taxonomic nomenclature. Call it a bovine. :) Or walking hamburger or extra rare T-bone. :) John Chambers wrote: Phil Taylor writes: | John Chambers wrote: | | (One textbook example for English is the lack of any word that is the | singular form of "cattle". Other languages have such words, and they | can't be translated to English with a single word. But you aren't | going to fix the English language; all you can do is chuckle and use | a phrase that includes "or" for your translation.) | | The singular of "cattle" is "cow". Not "cow or bull"; the word "cow" | is both the name of the species and of a female individual of that | species. I actually ran into this problem when writing up my PhD | thesis (which was on the biochemistry of semen). I referred to | "bull semen" at one point and my supervisor (himself a world expert | in the field of Reproductive Biology) wanted it changed to "cow semen". Well, I doubt if you'd find any agreement on this among many native speakers. People can make up such rules all they like, but it'll have little effect on the rest of us. And "cow or bull" isn't even sufficient. These don't include "steer" or "heifer", which are members of the same species. There is little trouble finding similar terminology problems in the various kinds of music that we all play here. | Now look here boss, I'm a country boy. I live on a farm. Let me | explain something to you... I milked a few cows when I was little ... To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 | are nesting; In the hollow of 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once 65203-2202 573.443.8676 | had been; And he lifts up his Computer Support Specialist, Sr. | arms in a blessing; For being University of Missouri - Columbia | born again. --Rich Mullins
Re: [abcusers] Renaissance notes, anyone?
Are shapenotes Renaissance? I thought they went back to plainchant notation. (this is probably why I only barely passed Music history last sem and prolly won't this sem) Guido Gonzato wrote: Hello, with very little effort, abcm2ps could typeset scores using Renaissance-style notes; that is, those fancy square or diamond-shaped notes. To this end, we'd need two things: 1) disable the proportional spacing of notes. This probably calls for a new abcm2ps %%command and/or command-line option, which I cannot implement. I'm sure that Jean-François would be kind as usual :-) 2) new note shapes, which I could easily write as new PostScript routines. As a matter of fact, I don't have much time and I would't start this new task unless someone's interested. So, my question is: does anybody want this feature? Ciao, Guido =8-) -- Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Renaissance notes, anyone?
Neumes!!! That was the word I was looking for. Thank you! I couldn't for the life of me remember. Mine was a stupid question. Since you're both well versed on music history (in the western tradition anyways), you'll know why I'm having trouble trying to persuade our first daughter (assuming we have one) 'Talea'. Of course if we had quintuplets and two of them were siamese, I spoze we could name the second one 'calor' and the pair 'isorhythmic motet'. Ironically, she's not having any of it. She likes the name Talea, but that's as far as she'll go :) //Christian Phil Taylor wrote: Christian M. Cepel wrote: Are shapenotes Renaissance? I thought they went back to plainchant notation. (this is probably why I only barely passed Music history last sem and prolly won't this sem) Well, square- and diamond-shaped notes are certainly used in Gregorian notation, but this notation also groups notes together into neumes, so it's a little more complicated than just setting the note shapes. (It can be done automatically though, as BarFly does.) Shape notes have probably been used in many systems throughout history, the best-known being that used in the Sacred Harp, where the shape used for the note head indicates its scale position, making it easier for semi-literate singers to sight-read. Again, this could be done automatically as a program option, which would not require any change to the abc. MusicXML lets you specify note shapes on an individual basis, which would not be a good idea in abc as it would make the abc unreadable. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Renaissance notes, anyone?
Sorry to double post, but I realized that my post made no sense. That was supposed to read Since you're both well versed on music history (in the western tradition anyways), you'll know why I'm having trouble trying to persuade MY WIFE TO NAME our first daughter (assuming we have one) 'Talea'. Of course if we had quintuplets and two of them were siamese, I spoze we could name the second one 'calor' and the pair 'isorhythmic motet'. Ironically, she's not having any of it. She likes the name Talea, but that's as far as she'll go :) Now the pronouns have antecedents. Don't things make much more sense? //Christian To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc repository similiar to olga.net?
Have you any experience with counter-attacking methods called 'tarpitting'
or 'quicksanding'... I don't recall which. I read a blurb about it a while
ago Specifically, intentionally timing out requests from snakes/spiders/etc
to bog their machine down to the point that they sit up and take notice and
possibly act more responsibly? Increasing their costs for such actions to
a point so high as to make them non-feasible in future.
//Christian
Btw.. I appreciate the below. There's a lot of info and jumping off info
that I will be incorporating in future.
John Chambers wrote:
Christian M. Cepel asks:
| Does John's script obey robot exclusions? I'm ready to kill Altavista
| for spidering my _javascript_ validated forms, submitting them empty, and
| completely ignoring robot exclusions.
Yes, it does. The first thing it does for each site is asks for the
robots.txt file, and stays away from directories that have a general
exclusion. The only exceptions are when someone specifically asks to
have their music scanned, and then their directory becomes an
"exception to the exclusion". I think this has only happened once.
I also have a significant tune collection (partly from extracting
tunes from lists like this one). I was given write access to the
robots.txt file on the machine a couple of years ago, and it excludes
most of my music stuff. I've found that the big search sites just
aren't very good for finding music. And then I have to list my own
directories as exceptions to the robots.txt rules, as mentioned in
the previous paragraph.
OTOH, if I had a collection of abc songs with lyrics, I'd probably
want that searched by the big guys. They're all pretty good at
finding lyrics.
I know what you mean about the forms. And there's a similar problem
with cgi scripts. Maybe two years ago, I started reading about
research into searching for "hidden pages" on the web that can only
be found via forms and scripts. My reaction to this was "Uh-oh; I'd
better watch for this. About a year ago they hit. Several search
sites started invoking my lookup script systematically with
random-looking arguments, and whem they got a reply with a form,
started exploring the links. They were, in effect, attempting to get
every abc tune on the web in every format that my scripts know how to
return. One of them hit our server simultaneously from about 30
different addresses, and had over 100 tune convertions outstanding. It
brought the server to a screeching halt.
I got enough cpu time to add a "blacklist" to my scripts, and
whenever I see symptoms of this, I add their address (or subnet) to
the blacklist. And I added a small (5 sec) minimum between requests
from the same address. Both of these can be a hassle to people
working from behind a firewall, since what my scripts see is the
firewall's address, and all users behind it look like a single user.
But such things are necessary when there are misbehaving search
monsters out there.
One of the side effects of this is that I no longer tell the mailer
here to forward my email to my home machine. I log in and read the
email here. This means that I'm logged in several times during most
days. This is so that I can keep a constant watch for attacks on the
web server. Most of these are probably not malicious; they are more
likely from novice searchers. But it's a good idea to spot them fast
and install defenses against the new ones.
My search program also has a sort of "reverse blacklist". In its list
of starting URLs, I can include URLs or hosts that are to be avoided.
I've mentioned this on lists that I subscribe to, with the idea that
someone might not want their tunes indexed. So far I haven't actually
had anyone say they want to be avoided, but it's a possibility. I
mostly use this as a way to keep the search program away from some
sites that are known sinkholes of time with no abc tunes. There are
some sites that have pages with millions of links, and such things
are best ignored.
Another thing I have my searcher do is ignore any URL with "cgi" as a
token, i.e., with non-letters on both sides. This is fairly effective
at preventing the invocation of scripts without arguments, and that's
almost always a pure waste of time. I've also been thinking of also
excluding things like "php", but so far that hasn't been necessary.
You can learn a lot of weird stuff when you try writing a web search
program ...
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
--
Christian Marcus Cepel ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
Re: [abcusers] abc repository similiar to olga.net?
I know there are many out there. I'm fond of http://www.thesession.org/
Toby Rider wrote:
Has anyone thought of compiling a centralized database of abc tunes
similar to olga.net.. I find that resource incredibly useful.
Basically something like John's tune finder, except that it saves
everything to a local database.
I would be willing to donate computing power storage space to such a
project.
Toby
--
Christian Marcus Cepel ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed,
University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are
nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And
he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins
Re: [abcusers] abc repository similiar to olga.net?
I'm confused. How is that different from Olga? Olga is made up entirely
of submitted ascii files, and ones that were pasted in the newsgroup for
examination/distribution. I understand that you're looking for something
different entirely... but it does seem that thesession.org matches olga in
this respect at least. Or am I missing something?
Toby Rider wrote:
Ah, but www.thesession.org requires people to submit their tunes to it.
something that combined John's indexing approach, along with a
comprehensive database for the abc's of the tunes, would be incredibly
sweet..
I know there are many out there. I'm fond of
http://www.thesession.org/
Toby Rider wrote:
Has anyone thought of compiling a centralized database of abc tunes
similar to olga.net.. I find that resource incredibly useful.
Basically something like John's tune finder, except that it saves
everything to a local database.
I would be willing to donate computing power storage space to such a
project.
Toby
--
Christian Marcus Cepel ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed,
University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are
nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he
lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins
--
Christian Marcus Cepel ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed,
University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are
nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And
he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins
Re: [abcusers] abc repository similiar to olga.net?
Does John's script obey robot exclusions? I'm ready to kill Altavista for spidering my javascript validated forms, submitting them empty, and completely ignoring robot exclusions. I see the difference now.. Thanks for explaining. //Christian Toby Rider wrote: Yes, thesession.org does exactly what Olga does.. However combining the indexing approach of the abc tune finder, along with a centralized database like Olga, or thesession.org, would be even better.. The only issue is permission.. Someone would have to contact every site with abc tunes that we would possibly want to query for tunes and get permission. John is running a copy of the tune finder on one of my machines and I periodically get emails asking why one of my IP addresses is spidering their site.. I tell them what it's up to, and thy are usually cool about it. Toby I'm confused. How is that different from Olga? Olga is made up entirely of submitted ascii files, and ones that were pasted in the newsgroup for examination/distribution. I understand that you're looking for something different entirely... but it does seem that thesession.org matches olga in this respect at least. Or am I missing something? Toby Rider wrote: Ah, but www.thesession.org requires people to submit their tunes to it. something that combined John's indexing approach, along with a comprehensive database for the abc's of the tunes, would be incredibly sweet.. I know there are many out there. I'm fond of http://www.thesession.org/ Toby Rider wrote: Has anyone thought of compiling a centralized database of abc tunes similar to olga.net.. I find that resource incredibly useful. Basically something like John's tune finder, except that it saves everything to a local database. I would be willing to donate computing power storage space to such a project. Toby -- Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins -- Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins -- Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Request: Recommend Intro Guide to MIDI from Programmer's perspective.
Can I get some recommendations those of you in the know? I'm looking for a good reference/intro text to explain MIDI. I wanna understand it on a concept level, a programming level, a zen buddhist level (well.. I'm a Christian, so if there are any NT aramaic writings on the subject I'd really enjoy them). Not strictly a computer perspective (though I want a real strong focus), but also a good focus on device development/usage/theory... you know.. electronics/hardware, etc. I want the background in device theory, etc., but I'm also planning on implementing in Java (which I expect is removed from the hardware by many layers of software, if it even uses a physical MIDI hardware device at all), so any resources that discuss MIDI in relation to Java, are extra appreciated. If any of what I said was gibberish, it just proves how low my knowledge level is, so please don't flame me... help me eradicate my ignorance :) I wanna study, but I wanna study efficiently. I've got all three platforms avail if any of the suggested resources are non-book format and need a specific platform. //Christian -- Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Goodbye
You've certainly my gratitude and appreciation. Might we convince you to make a single tarball available, to bypass any administrative hastle with access and such. // Christian Frank Nordberg wrote: Seems it ain't quite over yet. The reason why Musica Viva is down now has nothing whatsoever to do with the real issue. Apparently the domain name has been blocked due to communication problems between VeriSign and their Norwegian agent, ActiveISP. That's what happened last year at least, and I know I paid that bill two months ago (I just checked just to be absolutely sure). At first I saw no reason to bother, but on second thought I realized this is a golden opportunity to vent off some of my built-up frustration. Some poor bloke down at ActiveISP is gonna get a hell of a start of the day tomorrow. ;-) Maybe I should sue them, btw? Does anybody know anything about the legal aspect of such a situation? Anyway, the site will be back again soon, It probably won't be for long, but at least it'll get a proper funeral. Musica Viva ain't gonna just softly and suddenly vanish away! Laurie (ukonline) wrote: ...So please respect my right to be grumpy, anti-social, selfish and bitter. Yep. All the best anyway. Thanks! :-) Once at a crisis point in my life I got an email from an Indian friend who said always remember that some of Gods greatest gifts come in the form of unanswered prayers. I've got a feeling that when I get some distance to the whole thing, getting rid of that greedy and ungrateful monster called Musica Viva will have been one of the best things ever to happen to me. Somehow that doesn't feel very comforting... Gerry McCartney wrote: Speaking as a rank amateur, i.e. not a programmer (!), may I just send a thank you to Frank Nordberg for allowing me the pleasure of visiting his Musica Viva site many times over this last year or so. I got many useful links ... Well... The Free Sheet Music Directory is one of the main reasons why Musica Viva is bleeding to death, and even if some last-minute miracle should save the site, that particular part of it will have to go. ... and was able to access many excellent programs that I'd never heard of previously. Hmmm... The ABC applications search engine really ought to stay online. Any volunteers? Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 CrownPoint Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modes - request Sequencing question.
Indeed.Excellent.. and understandable.. Thank you Phil!.. Definitely going into the 'keep' box. //Christian In message v01540b00b9468cfde0eb@[62.188.17.143], Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Key Sig Major MinorMix Dor Phr Lyd Loc Ionian Aeolian About (maybe) a year ago Phil posted this chart here, and I've kept it as an Excel spreadsheet and constantly referred it ever since. So, basically, thank you for that Phil! -- Steve Mansfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lesession.demon.co.uk - abc music notation tutorial, the uk.music.folk newsgroup FAQ, and other goodies To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 Crown Point, Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Modes - request Sequencing question.
I've notated a tune in abc, authored by a semi local, now deceased gentleman and am currently having those familiar with his work and this tune review it for accuracy and such. It is NOT ready for distribution, so please do not reference or copy the file(s), which I made available online for our local group, the address of which I must now distribute here, if I am to receive the feedback I am seeking. I will make the final version available when complete. My request is this. I've notated the tune in E minor, and even though I'm nearly finished with a music theory minor at my accredited university, I struggle with theory, and balk on the subject of modes. I just can't seem to get them, and am undertaking study to learn them outside of my legitimate studies. That study however would hinder my distribution of this really beautiful tune. I digress. As I stated, I keyed the tune in E minor, and the accidentals are correct, but it seems tonally centered on a tonic of A. I don't know if I'm correct in this or not, as I struggle as well with tonal theory (despite sleeping the Gauldin's 'harmonic practice in tonal music' under my pillow for 6 semesters in the hope of knowledge osmosis. I despise this book actually. Though it is heralded as the 'best out there' by so many.) So.. My request Would someone with the knowledge be willing to look at my files and tell me if its in some key/mode other than E minor, and perhaps suggest harmonic accomp chording for the tune? My thanks if anyone's willing. The files are located at http://www.chivalry.com/moceltic/slojam/ The tune is 'Mike Hoban's Air' and is located in a slightly separated manner at the bottom of the list of tunes on that page. The Finale-gif is an image of what I am most confident as being notated accurately. The Midi there is a well rendered playing of that file. The Finale file itself, for any who use Coda's SmartMusic is also there. Finally, the abc file and a gif screen capture are also available, though I am not as confident of their correctness, nor does PlayABC render a suitably accurate hearing of the tune to my ear for me to recommend it to those not familiar with the tune (especially as it seems to ignore tied notes and instead play them as separate and distinct notes). I could not discover from the standard, or the tutorials how, or if it is even possible to notate a DC al Fine, so I was forced to copy the A part and tack it on to the end of the B part, which kindof defeats the AABA sequencing visually. So the question that I alluded to in my 'subject' is whether it's possible or not, and if so, how one notates and directs midi rendering engines to do a DC al Fine. Thanks all for any input, and for being patient for the final distribution copy of the tune if there are those interested in it's content. //Christian To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] List Management....
I'm sorry to ask again.. Last time it created a longish OT thread. I don't want to do the same again, I just want to know why sub/unsub requests off the tullochgorm site aren't being honored. I just dun wanna receive 2 copies of everything anymore. I could, of course, create a blackhole id, but I'd rather fix the problem than just /dev/null the evidence. //Christian Guido said :...Sorry for not providing the original Russian lyrics,..., I'll be glad to accept them. I'm trying to get a Russian friend of mine to supply them and if she comes up with the goods I'll type them in. L. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 371 Crown Point, Columbia 65203-2202 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Will you unsubscribe me, please
I am under the impression that the subscribe/unsubscribe script is not an automated engine, but simply a request generator which sends a message to the admin requesting action or worse, simply logging the request in case the admin periodically checks the request log and processes the requests. I'm in a rather sticky wicket, as I subscribed a pop account I recently deleted. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now since this account is a catch all for all mail going to any name that does not exist as an account, I get two copies of each list posting :) But which domain did I use? Do I remember? Heck no If I create [EMAIL PROTECTED] (my primary) it creates [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] as well. Which did I happen to type into the subscribe request field so many moons ago.. Durned if I know :) Until I figured it out, I thought you folks were all double-clicking your mail-client's send buttons. //Christian On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Farley, Benoit wrote: I am asking for the second time. How many times will I have to ask? Quite a few, I think :-) I have pointed my browser to that place, I have submitted my unsubscription, I don't want to receive the postings any longer. Isn't there anyone responsible here? Nope, the administrator is Toby, and I don't think he's reading the list. His email is [EMAIL PROTECTED], try contacting him... You are of course 100% that you didn't forget which email you used for the subscription?? Anyways, I know I just campaigned against spam on the list, but thinking about it, this is a recurring problem for this list. I don't unsubscribe too often :) but is the unsubscription procedure very difficult to follow or broken, or something. Is there for instance a way for people to ask for an email with their subscribtion info to be generated?.I can imagine it must be a drag to not be able to unsubscribe, esp since the list at times can generate quite a few posts. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Finding one's subscribed address
I do of course have the ability of viewing full headers :) Unfortunately, those emails that are forwarded as part of the 'catch all' are munged, and no such information is contained :)Heh I'm not worried about it though. I was just chatting... Sorry.. you're right.. back to the music! //Christian On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 03:58:21AM -0500, Christian M. Cepel wrote: But which domain did I use? Do I remember? Heck no Easy! Find a mail that came to you via the list, and view all headers on it. (I'm not real familiar with squirrel mail, but it's advanced enough to offer you full headers I'm sure. Poke around until you find it.) You can do fine detective work without understanding any of it. Up near the top of the full header lines, you'll see some lines of mumbo-jumbo like these below. Look carefully for (one of) your name(s) in a line near the top that starts with Received:. The first Received entry is the most recently added one, so that's probably what we want. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jun 7 18:58:44 2002 Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from argyll.wisemagic.com ([207.136.137.70]) by mailbox.myisp.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g578wfH85865 *-for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:58:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rec... blah blah blah blah My mail program wraps the line so I can read it, e.g. 4 of the lines above are really one line of header, and my destination address is in there. I hope this solves the problem for those who had it, and lets us get back to more musical threads :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Jim Vint Breathnach
I would be glad to take you up on your kind offer.. Thank you! //Christian I have a free font called MusicalSymbols which contains all you need I think. I can send it to you if you contact me off-list. Henrik Norbeck, Stockholm, Sweden [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swipnet.se/hnorbeck/ My home page http://home.swipnet.se/hnorbeck/abcmus/ Abcmus ABC program http://home.swipnet.se/hnorbeck/abc.htm 1000 abc tunes http://surf.to/blackthorn Irish trad music band http://www.rfod.se/folklink/ Links to Swedish music -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Jim Vint Breathnach
Sorry about that folks... My mailer betrayed me. It was not meant to go back to the list. //Christian I would be glad to take you up on your kind offer.. Thank you! //Christian I have a free font called MusicalSymbols which contains all you need I think. I can send it to you if you contact me off-list. Henrik Norbeck, Stockholm, Sweden [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swipnet.se/hnorbeck/ My home page http://home.swipnet.se/hnorbeck/abcmus/ Abcmus ABC program http://home.swipnet.se/hnorbeck/abc.htm 1000 abc tunes http://surf.to/blackthorn Irish trad music band http://www.rfod.se/folklink/ Links to Swedish music -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Jim Vint Breathnach
Hi all. Can anyone tell me if Jim Vint's on this list? And. If he is, and you're him (lovely grammar, I know..)... Jim.. would you consider licensing Breathnach, and what would the terms be? We're still doing our abc software engineering project for software engineering class, and we've not the time or desire to build our own tokens or font. Especially since we've moved from a MS Visual C++ dev to Java 1.4 + Forte dev pretty late in the game (Hey.. It's the extreme method ofprogramming!) //Christian -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse - Standard...
I fail to see why discussion of new additions/changes to the standard can abound for an extended period of time, and ultimately be beaten into astalemate. I don't quite know what the 'Standard Version Naming Scheme' for abc is, but I thought the use of a #.# allowed small changes from say, 1.6 to say,1.7... or if that's too big of a psychological jump, perhaps to 1.6.1 or somesuch. It reminds me of the American Legislative branch, which tries to pass new legislation that encompases VAST amounts of change. It ultimately fails,and all the time spent on the legislation is wasted. If the same legislation is broken up into smaller bits, progress can be achieved. Some parts of theprevious whole, of course fail, or are 'sacrificed'. Often those bits are not the most important bits anyways. I'm sure everyone will disagree as to 'priority' of each issue brought up for inclusion in an updated standard, but there seems to be a fair number ofsmall issues that the majority of people regard as 'non-issues' or 'no brainers' or. Gee.. This makes tons of sense.. Noone's offered any reasons whythis is bad... But since it's wraped up with a bunch of other controversial issues Stalemate.. nothing gets done. Can the existing (if it's not defunct) committe choose to implement a sliding change to the standard to progress us from 1.6.0 to 1.7 ? I readily admit that my perceptions may be incorrect. But if they are not, is there any interest in addressing this issue? //Christian Atte wrote: | On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, John Chambers wrote: | Atte wrote: | | !fine! exclamation-point abuse | | This reminds me: There has been a bit of discussion of this syntax | off and on over the years. Some people have implemented it. Could | people post information on which abc apps accept this syntax? | | abcm2ps That's the only reply that I've seen. Is this the only abc program that understands the !foo! annotation syntax? (Well, actually, my jcabc2ps clone does, too, so that's two abc2ps clones. Not what you'd call an overwhelmingly positive response.) If so, I'm disappointed. I sorta recall that there was quite a discussion of this on several occasions, and a lot of people seemed to think it was a Good Idea. Some recent messages implied that some people thought the issue had been settled and this syntax adopted. But the shortage of replies to my question imply that this isn't true at all. Of course, it did also get mixed up with the concept of macros, since a lot of people prefer 1-char abbreviations for such things. And macros turn out to be so complex that most people give up in bewilderment after reading a few messages on the subject. I don't think I'd want to try to implement any of the things I read; I'm certain I'd do it wrong. But the !foo! notation itself seems simple. And a header line that says something like m:q=!foo! seems like it would be trivial to implement. I wonder if it would be possible to get general agreement on something simple like this, and leave parameterized macros for a future discussion. (Of course, if past history is any clue, what will happen is that a few people will declare that macros that just do string substitution are not nearly powerful enough to solve all the world's problems, and another discussion of obscure macro implementations will follow, with the result that everyone else will killfile the topic and the idea of a basic substitution macros will once again die on the vine. ;-) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Save 70% to 80% on Term Life Insurance
Nothing ... it's spam.. just like all the others.. except they forgot to translate it into Turkish before sending it. What has this got to do with ABC? On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: page on the internet that will give you a term life quote from over 500 companies, and allow you to apply To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Mp3 indirin ..
Anyone mind if I forward this to SpamCop.com? Binlerce Mp3 indirin... BINLERCE MP3 INDIRMEK ARTIK ÇOK KOLAY! NASIL MI? *Siz degerli ziyaretcilerimiz icin kücük bir program hazirladik.Bu program sayesinde; site site gezmeden aradiginiz mp3'ü kolayca bulacaksiniz ve sorunsuz cok HIZLI bir sekilde DOWNLOAD edebileceksiniz... *Aylardir üzerinde calistigimiz bu programi denemek isterseniz hemen download edebilirsiniz... *Hadi...Dilediginiz sarkiyi keyifle dinlemenin tadini cikartin! Not: Su an itibariyle toplam mp3 sayisi 14.283'dür. (Yerli/Yabanci) lt;lt; DOWNLOAD MP3_DOWNLOADER v.2.7 gt;gt; nbsp; SITEMIZE GIRIS IÇIN BURAYA TIKLAYINIZ: www.3mp3.net Click on the link below to be removed from our mailing list. - Mail listemizden cikmak icin:UNSUBSCRIBE -- +===+ Christian Marcus Cepel (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) 5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Computer Support Specialist, Sr. (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' School of Information Science Learning Technologies, College of Ed, University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned are nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins +===+ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
