Re: [agi] Neural representations of negation and time?
On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 10:42:37PM -0400, Philip Goetz wrote: I'm also interested in ideas about neural representations of time. Here's an interesting recent paper about representing space, not time: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/q-bio/pdf/0606/0606005.pdf How, when memories are stored, are they tagged with a time sequence, so that we remember when and/or in what order they happened, and how do we judge how far apart in time events occurred? Is there some brain code for time, with a 1D metric on it to judge distance? -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [agi] list vs. forum
On Sat, Jun 10, 2006 at 12:41:16AM -0400, Philip Goetz wrote: Why do we have both an email list and a forum? Seems they both serve the same purpose. Both planes and ships are means of transportation. So why do we have both planes and ships? Email and the web are very different media, and in many ways complementary. A synthesis of both (a blog/forum/email) would be best, but this hasn't been done yet properly. So for time being, the forum is a very different medium from the list, and we should keep both for those who're more comfortable with either. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [agi] list vs. forum
On Sat, Jun 10, 2006 at 07:39:52PM +0530, sanjay padmane wrote: I feel you should discontinue the list. That will force people to post there. Or will cause email-only users to drop out of the conversation. Sorry, I don't do forums. I only do web because of tabs and RSS, and there's nothing like that available for forums. Message authentication is possible. Push is not possible. Self-archiving is not possible. Maybe in another ten years we'll have a web forum that is usable. I'm not using the forum only because no one else is using it (or very few), and everyone is perhaps doing the same. I'm not posting to the forum because I never post to forums. Another advantage is that it will expose the discussions to google and it will draw more people with increasing content. If list archives are not public, something is very wrong with this list's architecture. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
[agi] Bayes in the brain
An article with an opposing point of view than the one I mentioned yesterday... http://www.bcs.rochester.edu/people/alex/pub/articles/KnillPougetTINS04.pdf --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [agi] Mentifex AI Breakthrough on Wed.7.JUN.2006
Arthur, Can it represent negatives? Time? Textures? Relationships? Distinguish homonyms from context? Represent the concept of a homonym? Represent itself? Can it handle deixis? More importantly, do you have any prinicipled reason for claiming that it will soon be able to handle any of these things, other than your statement of optimism If robot builders were to add sensory and motor routines to Mind.Forth, the AI would flesh out its conceptual knowledge and interact with the world.? So far, what you describe looks like something I wrote in Basic on a Sinclair Spectrum computer in 1982. Richard Loosemore A. T. Murray wrote: In Vernor Vinge's classic paper on Technological Singularity: And what of the arrival of the Singularity itself? What can be said of its actual appearance? Since it involves an intellectual runaway, it will probably occur faster than any technical revolution seen so far. The precipitating event will likely be unexpected -- perhaps even to the researchers involved. (But all our previous models were catatonic! We were just tweaking some parameters) Very truly yours Mentifex here was tweaking some parameters last Wednesday and suddenly the AI Mind in Win32Forth woke up. It was not an accident. It was a milestone after years of coding and debugging an AI Mind based on a linguistic theory of mind. Mind.Forth thinks on the basis of spreading activation. When a pre-verbal concept in the AI Forthmind becomes active enough to initiate the generation of a sentence of thought in English, the various Think modules not only follow the chain of activation snaking across the conceptual mindgrid, but they also midwife or push the nascent thought as it seeks out its own as-it-were birth-canal. As an example, let's take the startling exclamation by an AI Mind of the sentence: Ben writes books. When the concept Ben comes to mind, the AI has selected that concept because it was momentarily the most active concept on the entire conscious mindgrid. (Perhaps a camera saw Ben.) Having reactivated the concept of Ben, the linguistic AI Mind lets activation spread from instantiation nodes on the diachronic Ben-concept to various verbs that have been associated in the past with knowledge of Ben's activities. For whatever reason, the verb write comes to mind in association with the concept of the persona of Ben. And what does Ben write? Letters, AGI posts, poems, rants, shopping lists, extortion notes, BOOKS! You might think that it is easy to create software that associates Ben... writes... books, but until Wed.7.JUN.2006 it was not that simple. (Now any AI Lab anywhere can do it.) In 2002 I published a book AI4U (to compete with AIMA) that contained my JavaScript Mind.html code as Appendix A. The code was buggy and created English gibberish as output. The output did not start out as gibberish, but it quickly degraded into gibberish as the AI made spurious associations. Mind.Forth -- the precursor to Mind.html -- had the same bugs, but last year in 2005 I inserted powerful diagnostic routines into Mind.Forth and I gradually removed the very worst bugs. On 16 March 2005 I also made it possible to press Tab on the keyboard in order to cycle through such display modes as (currently) Normal; Transcript; Tutorial; and Diagnostic. The Tutorial mode was scrolling voluminous messages so rapidly down the screen, that the user had to kill the AI to read it. On 9 November 2005 I consolidated the Tutorial horizontally. The idea behind the Tutorial mode was to show the deep internal thinking process of the artificial mind. By tweaking the same code that created the output of the Mind, in Tutorial mode I was able to show the range of possible thoughts available to the AI and the forces at play in determining pathways of thought across the conceptual mindgrid. One golden goal, however, eluded me until now -- showing the slosh-over effect. In Mentifex AI lore, the slosh-over effect is what happens when you think by activating two concepts (Ben... writes...) and the spreading activation builds up so strongly on the second concept (the verb) that it sloshes over onto the third concept -- the direct object in Ben writes books. The tweaking that I did last Wednesday was simply to make a subject-noun concept start out with an equal activation at all its nodes and pass a spike of activation to verbs -- before the selection of the verb to go with the subject. When the verb is selected, an increment of activation is added to all its nodes, including any nodes on which a modicum of spike activation has already been deposited. When each node on the verb-concept fires its own spike of relative activation over to an associated object-noun, the stage is set for the AI Mind to pick a valid object -- not the spurious associations which engender AI gibberish. There are still some bugs to be worked out, so that Mind.Forth will home in
Re: [agi] Mentifex AI Breakthrough on Wed.7.JUN.2006
More importantly, do you have any prinicipled reason for claiming that it will soon be able to handle any of these things, other than your statement of optimism If robot builders were to add sensory and motor routines to Mind.Forth, the AI would flesh out its conceptual knowledge and interact with the world.? More importantly, why hasn't this guy been banned from the list yet? I'm new here, so if there's any no bans policy I don't know please excuse the question. http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html I would assume that you all would have read this page with details about this spammer? Ricardo --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [agi] Bayes in the brain
On 11/06/06, Philip Goetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An article with an opposing point of view than the one I mentioned yesterday... http://www.bcs.rochester.edu/people/alex/pub/articles/KnillPougetTINS04.pdf Why do you find whether there are bayesian estimators in the brain an interesting question? I shall explain why I ask this question (from the point of view of building a weakly self-improving optimisation system). The approach I take is the baby-based, that is starting from a simple system that can extract information from the environment and become a more complex system. From this I have to question which parts of an adult system are in-built and important for the development of the system and which are the products of the developmental process. For example this http://neuro.caltech.edu/publications/nbb408.pdf review publication on neural plasticity suggests that some of the neural locations normally used for processing visual information can be used for information in processing braille if the vision is lost early on. This suggests that not all the sections of brain that are responsible for the bayesian optimal classification (if it exists) of certain signals aren't genetically programmed for those specific signals. So the more interesting question becomes how are they hooked up to those signals and the correct or nearly correct bias acquired or assigned for learning about them, whether bayesian optimal or not. Such questions also arise in how we manage to usefully integrate visual or orientation data that we acquire through our tongue(!) into our models of the world. http://www.wicab.com/ Will Pearson --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [agi] Mentifex AI Breakthrough on Wed.7.JUN.2006
Richard Loosemore wrote: Arthur, Can it represent negatives? ATM: Yes. http://mind.sourceforge.net/negsvo.html is the negation module. Time? ATM: Yes. http://mind.sourceforge.net/variable.html#t is the time t variable. However, the variable has no correspondence with actual time. On the other hand, at the outset of a run of the AI program, and at each time when the user Tabs into Transcript mode, the AI reads the Windows system clock for the time and date. Therefore, the AI is capable of having an innate sense of time, right on down to the hour, minute and second. Textures? Not yet, because textures must be part of a robot sensorium. Relationships? Yes, that is what the AI Mind is all about -- establishing relationships between entities as mediated linguistically by verbs. Distinguish homonyms from context? I believe so, because the current AI uses ASCII characters, not phonemes. Represent the concept of a homonym? At this stage, I am not sure. Represent itself? The AI has a concept of self or ego, so that words like you and me and I are directed properly to the concepts of self or other as necessary in the I/O stream. Can it handle deixis? Since I have a degree in ancient Greek and briefly attended U Cal Berkeley graduate school in classics, I know that deixis from deiknumi means pointing or showing, and so I must admit that the AI is not far enough along to show things. It is an implementation of the simplest thinking that I can muster -- a proof of concept program. More importantly, do you have any principled reason for claiming that it will soon be able to handle any of these things, other than your statement of optimism If robot builders were to add sensory and motor routines to Mind.Forth, the AI would flesh out its conceptual knowledge and interact with the world.? ATM: I don't claim how soon or how not soon, but http://mind.sourceforge.net/sesorium.html is where I point out that the addition of multisensory inputs will allow the build-up of conceptual knowledge so that the AI will actually know what nouns refer to. As the AI is now, it only knows the relationships among the concepts in its knowledge base. http://mind.sourceforge.net/motorium.html invites locomotion. So far, what you describe looks like something I wrote in Basic on a Sinclair Spectrum computer in 1982. Richard Loosemore It would most likely be extremely difficult if not impossible to port Mind.Forth into circa 1982 Sinclair Spectrum BASIC. Thank you for the astute questions. Sincerely, Arthur T. Murray -- http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html http://mind.sourceforge.net/m4thuser.html --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [agi] Neural representations of negation and time?
Hi Eugen, Here's some research to suggest that representations of space and time might not be so different. From the abstract: The present paper evaluates the claim that abstract conceptual domains are structured through metaphorical mappings from domains grounded directly in experience. In particular, the paper asks whether the abstract domain of time gets its relational structure from the more concrete domain of space. Relational similarities between space and time are outlined along with several explanations of how these similarities may have arisen... An interesting read. http://psychology.stanford.edu/~lera/papers/metaphors.pdf (By the way, I'm new here; looking forward to meeting you all.) Zale --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
