[apple-crop-2] MAIA summer newsletter

[David Doud]

The summer newsletter is available 
http://maiaapples.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/MAIA-News-Summer-2020.pdf 
  - 
straight talk on MAIA1 (EverCrisp™ apples), storage protocols, announcement of 
a new release, and more. Signage and shirts available, October EverCrisp™ 
promotion.  Members will be receiving a hard copy of the newsletter via USPS 
soon. 

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Re: [apple-crop-2] Nurse limb removal?

[David Doud]

I often pinch the growing tips on the nurse limbs to encourage vigor in the 
graft - lots of hormonal things going on with growing tips - if the nurse limb 
is threatening to overwhelm the graft I’ll remove some or all of it - 

D


> On Jul 6, 2018, at 1:43 PM, Jon Clements  wrote:
> 
> Anybody have an opinion (or expertise?) on when is the best time to remove 
> nurse (limbs) on top-worked trees? Obviously want to push the grafts, so do 
> the nurse limbs take away energy? I guess I want to say they should/could be 
> removed during the upcoming dormant season, but what about cutting them off 
> now? Most of the grafts have grown one to two feet by now now...
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jon
> 
> -- 
> JMCEXTMAN (aka Jon Clements)
> 413.478.7219 Verizon
> 413.378.3068 Project Fi
> UMass Cold Spring Orchard
> 393 Sabin Street
> Belchertown, MA  01007
> http://umassfruit.com 
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[Apple-Crop] Midwest Apple Improvement Newsletter

[David Doud]

The current edition of the Midwest Apple Improvement Association’s newsletter, 
the ‘Ortet’, is online and can be viewed at 
http://www.midwestapple.com/-PDF/-Newsletters/ORTET2017.pdf - it is a large 
sized .pdf and will take a while to load if your internet connection is of 
modest speed. 

MAIA members will be receiving their hard copies in the mail within a few days. 

I think growers/professionals will find interesting, thought provoking reading. 
 If that thinking inspires questions, post them here and I will be happy to 
answer them or refer you to someone who can. 

The MAIA annual membership meeting this year will be held during the 
Mid-Atlantic Fruit and Vegetable Convention, Hershey PA - specifics are 
included in the materials arriving with your newsletter.  I hope to meet some 
of you there. 

David Doud
grower, Indiana 
-15*F last week means a dull August with no peaches….altho we always hope for 
miracles
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[Apple-Crop] powdery mildew

[David Doud]

Powdery mildew has historically been a minor problem here, but this year there 
was unacceptable levels of infection, particularly on Goldrush and in the Vf 
block where the spring sees a much reduced amount of fungicides. I am wondering 
about any control measures I could use this fall to reduce inoculum and also 
about integrating sulphur into the early season control program. I am 
uncomfortable in that I am using some of this high powered new chemistry for 
sooty blotch and fly speck control in the summer and worry about applying it to 
trees full of PM - it would seem a recipe for creating resistant strains.  

David Doud
grower, IN
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pick Your Own Apple Freeze Damage

[David Doud]

"Will the apples maintain a sufficient amount of quality to be able to be 
marketed to a rather non discriminating PYO cliental following the freeze event 
with the expectation that the apples will be used quickly for fresh use and not 
stored?”

No.

David Doud
grower, IN

picking the last of the Goldrush tomorrow before the freeze that unambiguously 
ends the harvest 


> On Nov 8, 2017, at 3:53 PM, Kurt Alstede <k...@alstedefarms.com> wrote:
> 
> Will the apples maintain a sufficient amount of quality to be able to be 
> marketed to a rather non discriminating PYO cliental following the freeze 
> event with the expectation that the apples will be used quickly for fresh use 
> and not stored?

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Prune dormat newly planted trees?

[David Doud]

Hello Doug - - 

I’m surprised no one has jumped into this yet - 

I'll take a swing at  it, be assured others will hold different opinions - 

So - I think all would agree that different varieties have different growth 
habits and so respond in differing fashion to manipulation - so, ‘one size fits 
all’ doesn’t totally apply - that said, fruiting spurs develop on two year old 
wood - if you remove all the 1 year old wood you push fruiting back a year - - 

When your trees were dug they lost a percentage of their roots - it’s generally 
appropriate to reduce the top to ‘balance’ the shoot/root ratio - 

Remove any limbs/twigs that are too low for your system - - and also any with 
poor crotch angles that cannot be compensated for by spreaders/tying/etc

Then it’s a matter of evaluation - is there a manipulation or would no 
manipulation result in blooming/fruiting spurs next year in the ‘sweet volume’ 
where you want to see fruit? - - here’s where the difference between Golden 
Delicious and Fuji (for example) is huge - Goldens will develop spurs on two 
year old wood near the trunk while Fuji is much less likely to - - managing 
these situations is why horticulturalists make the big $$$

Anyway - for a ‘one size fits all’ recommendation, after the above, remove the 
2-4 largest branches - consider bending the ones you leave if they reach into 
the next tree’s space or into the drive road - 

regards  -

David Doud - once stayed in a Holiday Inn Express...
1/2” green, rain, mud, bah - 



> On Apr 3, 2017, at 9:58 AM, Doug Nelson <doug.nel...@nelsonmultimedia.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Good Morning,
> 
> I am a new apple grower. I expanded my orchard from 500 trees to 5000 trees 
> this spring. Most of the 4500 new trees I have just finished planting are 
> still dormant.
> 
> I am growing tall spindle on B9 and M9 root stocks on 5 wire trellis system. 
> 
> Many of the trees have feathers that are too big for the tall spindle system.
> 
> Should I do a late pruning of these branches that are too big while the 
> plants are still dormant or wait till next winter?
> 
> The internet says conflicting things.  I think it would be smart to remove 
> branches so the trees dont waste a years growth. 
> 
> I plan on notching these trees every 4th bud two weeks before full bloom. 
> 
> -- 
> Doug Nelson
> 
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[Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[David Doud]

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering - 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card

'et cavete ab agricola’ - 
'let the grower beware'…
…and the sales desks also...

David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties - 
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Brown rot

[David Doud]

agree with Maurice - but if you have bloom, there will be plenty of inoculum 
around to eat up the crop - 
D


> On Jan 7, 2017, at 10:22 AM, kellyorchards  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any insights to offer regarding brown rot following a dry, 
> crop failure year.  The five peaches we did produce won the blue ribbon at 
> the local fair (only entry).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art Kelly
> Kelly Orchards
> Acton, Maine
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Re: [Apple-Crop] looking for Baxter Black Winesap

[David Doud]

Black Twig is reputed to be a seedling of Winesap - an unremarkable apple as 
grown here - Winesap colors better here, but doesn’t excite customers with its 
quality - 
D


> On Dec 24, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Lee Showalter <lee.showal...@ricefruit.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I grew Black Twigs many years ago. Related or the same?
> Lee
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Dec 24, 2016, at 12:22 PM, David Doud <david_d...@me.com 
> <mailto:david_d...@me.com>> wrote:
> 
>> I have a ‘Black Winesap’ that came thru Billy Reed of KY, about 30 years ago 
>>  - don’t know about the ‘Baxter’ part tho - 
>> D
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Kushad, Mosbah M <kus...@illinois.edu 
>>> <mailto:kus...@illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Any of you know of a source of trees or budwood for Baxter Black Winesap.   
>>> The grandfather of one of our Illinois residents had patented this cultivar 
>>> in the late 1940's.  Happy holiday and new year to all  Mosbah, 
>>> University of Illinois
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Re: [Apple-Crop] looking for Baxter Black Winesap

[David Doud]

I have a ‘Black Winesap’ that came thru Billy Reed of KY, about 30 years ago  - 
don’t know about the ‘Baxter’ part tho - 
D


> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Kushad, Mosbah M  wrote:
> 
>  
> Any of you know of a source of trees or budwood for Baxter Black Winesap.   
> The grandfather of one of our Illinois residents had patented this cultivar 
> in the late 1940's.  Happy holiday and new year to all  Mosbah, 
> University of Illinois
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Re: [Apple-Crop] MAIA 2016 newsletter

[David Doud]

Hello Claude - 

As we’ve talked about evaluating seedlings, looking for ‘outliers’ has always 
been mentioned - breeding with parents that we consider the best desert apples 
produce a lot of ‘pretty good’ progeny and very few seedlings that lie outside 
the parameters of the parents - but there are a handful we’ve identified that 
now exist in multiple locations as second test trees - I doubt there will be 
enough fruit associated with them next season for a lot of study tho - 

one of my biggest horticultural regrets is losing a cultivar from my 
grandfather’s orchard - it was in the row next to the property line, had shiny, 
distinctive, hard apples that looked like they should be delicious but were 
unpalatable for fresh eating - 45 years ago I didn’t know (and grandfather and 
cousin Jim who had ran that orchard were gone and couldn’t tell me) but I am 
now confident that tree was a hard cider apple variety with a lot of the cider 
making qualities that are lacking in desert varieties - all gone now tho - 

I’ve forwarded your email to Diane and Amy in case they are not monitoring this 
list - thanks for your observations and positive thoughts - 
David 


> On Dec 15, 2016, at 11:45 AM, Claude Jolicoeur <cjolip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> David,
> I was most interested to see in this newsletter that you are initiating 
> effort to develop genuine cider apples.  As far as I know, this would be the 
> first program in modern era in North America to explicitely search for cider 
> apples. There has been one in France and one in England, but none on this 
> continent.
> 
> Most interesting is that you will be searching for them within seedlings that 
> have NOT been selected for table apples. In effect, a seedling that has been 
> selected as a good dessert apple stands very little chances of being 
> excellent for cider making purposes because the selection criteria are 
> fundamentally different when we talk cider... For example:
> Everything related to visual aspect is of prime importance for a table apple, 
> but not at all for a cider apple.
> For the flavor, we are looking for entirely different profiles. For a table 
> apple, we want freshness (medium to high acidity) medium sugar (we don't want 
> a cloying sweet apple) and no bitterness - a slight astringency would be 
> acceptable however. For a cider apple, tannins in general and bitterness will 
> be welcome, and we would be seeking lower acidity and higher sugar. Actually 
> a "bland" and a cloying sweet apple could make a good cider apples...
> On flesh texture, we want the dessert apple to be firm and crisp. For the 
> cider apple, we rather want an apple which will release its juice easily.
> Most of the selection criteria for tree would however be similar, relating to 
> productivity, resistance, etc.
> I any case, sure you have much better chances to find a great cider apple 
> from the rejects of the dessert apple program!
> 
> I wish you best success - we badly need it!
> 
> Claude Jolicoeur
> 
> Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook 
> <http://www.chelseagreen.com/the-new-cider-makers-handbook/>
> http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/ <http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/>
> 
> 
> 
> Le 2016.12.15 00:19, David Doud a écrit :
>> Volume 2 of the ‘Ortet’ has been published and is available at the Midwest 
>> Apple Improvement Association website - http://midwestapple.com/index.php 
>> <http://midwestapple.com/index.php>
>> 
>> Here is a direct link to it - 
>> http://midwestapple.com/_PDF/_Newsletters/ORTET2016.pdf 
>> <http://midwestapple.com/_PDF/_Newsletters/ORTET2016.pdf>
>> 
>> If anyone has any questions, I’ll be happy to answer or find the answer. 
>> 
>> Last years edition is currently unavailable online as we had to change a 
>> couple of phrases to help with international trademark protection efforts - 
>> it will be back on the site next month.
>> 
>> David Doud - grower, Indiana
>> this past season’s crop was not the finest for which I’ve been responsible, 
>> but there is a home for every piece of fruit - 
> 
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[Apple-Crop] MAIA 2016 newsletter

[David Doud]

Volume 2 of the ‘Ortet’ has been published and is available at the Midwest 
Apple Improvement Association website - http://midwestapple.com/index.php

Here is a direct link to it - 
http://midwestapple.com/_PDF/_Newsletters/ORTET2016.pdf 
<http://midwestapple.com/_PDF/_Newsletters/ORTET2016.pdf>

If anyone has any questions, I’ll be happy to answer or find the answer. 

Last years edition is currently unavailable online as we had to change a couple 
of phrases to help with international trademark protection efforts - it will be 
back on the site next month.

David Doud - grower, Indiana
this past season’s crop was not the finest for which I’ve been responsible, but 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[David Doud]

Thank you for this, Glen - it is new information to me - I have been twiddling 
my thumbs waiting for color here, not only on Jonagold, but on all the later 
varieties - tonight will be the first night of the season in the lower 
40’s/upper30’s - hope that we’ll see some color development soon - 
David Doud IN


> On Oct 13, 2016, at 12:10 AM, Glen Koehler <glen.koeh...@maine.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Art
> A contributing factor to problems with fruit color this fall has been 
> late arrival of minimum temperatures below 42F,   A "rule of thumb" from a 
> Cornell bulletin is that optimum coloring conditions require two days with 
> low temperature below 42F, followed by a day with high temperature over 68F 
> AND over 80% sunlight on that day.  
> 
>  The Ag-Radar estimate for Sanford 9 miles away from you (far enough that 
> I wish we had closer data site, working on that) shows that the two days 
> below 42F requirement was not met until September 26, and Sept. 27 had a high 
> temperature over 68F.  But the requirement for a day with high temperature 
> over 68F AND over 80% sunshine was not met until October 6.
> 
> I don't see this formula as a powerful predictor, esp. since I've seen 
> some good color improvement while checking traps and doing fall scab index 
> over the past few weeks.   And even if it was a robust predictor, it wasn't 
> based on Jonagold.  Still it gives some numbers to possibly help explain late 
> coloring conditions this fall.
> 
> Easy to suspect the drought as a contributing factor.  I'm also wondering 
> if you used ReTain on these Jonagold.  If so, do you think that had any 
> effect on coloring?
> 
> - Glen
> 
> Glen Koehler
> University of Maine Cooperative Extension
> Pest Management Office
> Voice:  Office 207-581-3882,   Cell  207-485-0918
> 491 College Avenue, Orono, ME  04473
> UMaine Apple IPM <https://extension.umaine.edu/ipm/programs/apple/>
> Ag-Radar <https://extension.umaine.edu/ipm/ag-radar-apple-sites/>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 2:19 PM, kellyorchards <kellyorcha...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:kellyorcha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a heavy 
> crop?
> 
> 
> 
> Art Kelly
> Kelly Orchards
> Acton, Maine
> 
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[Apple-Crop] apple breeding

[David Doud]

A TED-Ed four minute video on apple breeding - an accurate basic explanation -  

http://ed.ted.com/lessons/why-are-there-so-many-types-of-apples-theresa-doud

some may find it useful to explain to customers where varieties come from - 

David Doud - grower, IN 
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[Apple-Crop] North Korean apple growing

[David Doud]

here’s a story from the UK ‘Daily Mirror’ that has embedded in it a 2.5 minute 
video of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un inspecting various factories and farms 
- at the 1:30 mark there is video of him at a North Korean orchard - looks like 
Goldens on trellis - plastic bins - well, I found it interesting…

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/reddit-brings-down-north-koreas-8881736

David Doud - grower, IN 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Patents

[David Doud]

Foundation Plant Services at UC Davis provides such a service - 
http://fps.ucdavis.edu/dnamain.cfm  - 

let us know how this works with your patent application - I doubt it will 
substitute for any of the phenological observations that are required, but if 
they allow it to remain as part of the application I don’t see the downside to 
having it in the record - it’s labor intensive and a bit frustrating to have to 
use the form developed nearly 100 years ago to demonstrate the uniqueness of a 
variety when we have this technology that can do it definitively and cheaply - 

David Doud - grower, Indiana - 


> On Sep 19, 2016, at 9:48 AM, lee elliott <pippm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I am in the process of applying for patents on some new apple varieties and 
> think it might be a good idea to include a DNA genotype sequence to the 
> "uniqueness" description, Has anyone done this and what lab can do this? I 
> searched google and found Biogentics Lab offer this service, anybody have any 
> experience here?  What should this cost?   Lee Elliott, Upstart Nursery, 
> Winchester, Illinois
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[Apple-Crop] apple-crop

[David Doud]

Apple-Crop discussion list 


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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pristine fungicide

[David Doud]

FWIW, if anyone is wondering - I set up the scales to weigh 5oz of material and 
poured Pristine into an Assail measuring container until it balanced - this 
amount of Pristine was consistent with the 5oz mark on the container - so as a 
practical matter the Assail measuring container can be used to measure Pristine 
- 
D


> On Jul 26, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Kushad, Mosbah M <kus...@illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> Make sure to keep the material in a dry area as the weight will vary with the 
> amount of moisture..  With the soupy weather we are having in the Midwest 
> these days, you may not need to add water!! 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
> David Doud
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:36 AM
> To: Apple-Crop discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Pristine fungicide
> 
> Thanks - I’ve got a balance scale, I’ll get out my grams to ounces conversion 
> table and convert one of my surplus devices to Pristine - D
> 
> 
>> On Jul 26, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Smith, Timothy J <smit...@wsu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> The dry formulations are measured by weight, liquid by volume.  Both vary by 
>> specific weight, so the handy measuring device that comes with various 
>> granular materials is for the intended product  only.   There are relatively 
>> cheap, but accurate postage scales that you can purchase at an office supply 
>> store.   You can weigh the product once accurately and pour it into an 
>> appropriate volume measuring cup, and determine the volume that matches the 
>> weight that  is recommended per tank load. Put a mark with a permanent ink 
>> on your measuring device, measure up to that mark at each filling, and spray 
>> away.
>> 
>> Tim Smith
>> WSU emeritus (semi- retired)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
>> David Doud
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 8:08 AM
>> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> Subject: [Apple-Crop] Pristine fungicide
>> 
>> I received a chemical delivery yesterday that included a jug of Pristine 
>> fungicide - I expected to receive a measuring cup with it similar to what is 
>> supplied with Assail and various other ‘chicken feed’ style chemicals, but 
>> no measurer was supplied - 
>> 
>> So - is it appropriate to use a standard liquid measuring cup to dole out 
>> the chemical? - how about the Assail measurer? I’ve never checked any of 
>> these manufacturer suppled measuring devices against each other, do they 
>> measure volume or weight? 
>> 
>> thanks -
>> David Doud - grower, Indiana
>> about a week away from skimming some Earligold and Redfree apples - I will 
>> skim a few Red Haven peaches this evening or tomorrow - retail is about to 
>> begin - ___
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