Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug
We used to have a C182 E model at Forbes which was used as a parachute jump plane and a glider tug - but not at the same time! It has a Cessna latch hook on it, and it gave no trouble at all. The rego of the plane is ICU, and it was sold to a couple of club members as neither gliding not parachuting happens at Forbes any more. The hook is still installed as far as I know. I think Lachlan Valley Aviation in Cowra may have fitted the hook. Although latch hooks are not permitted on gliders any more, they are still allowed on tugs. I should have thought that using a Cessna hook on a Cessna tug would be the easiest to get approved - but what do I know? Regards Jenny On 24/10/11 15:58, John McFarlane wrote: The Schweitzer couldn't have been that bad - or they would have attracted AD action to prevent their use Interestingly, to address some of your stated areas of acceptability this company manufactures a Like tow hook with improvements (unable to validate tests/methodology) http://www.wingsunlimitedtowhooks.com/index.html Has anyone had any experience with the hook at all, it looks reasonable. Regards John -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of opsw...@bigpond.net.au Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 12:27 PM To: p...@kurstjens.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Cc: John McFarlane Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Pam, my understanding is that the Schwiezer type hook is not acceptable as it does not have the aligning function that is found in the tost hook design. The outer ring keeps the load at right angles to hook. the old cessna/schweizer hook was mounted on an AN bolt and could move and not release or auto release. Aerial ag at bankstown did fabricate the tost mount in the past. VH-RLC and VH-EFY were two 182's that were used extensively for towing. regards Peter Heath. John McFarlanejohn.mcfarl...@mcfarlane.net.au wrote: = Hi Pam, You can install a hook via two processes: 1. Purchase a Hook installation with a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) from a vendor(Tost, Schweitzer) - comes with everything you need and is a log book entry if installed as per the vendors instructions. STC issuing authority really needs to be FAA or EASA to be accepted. Once in your hand, with the parts, you can just have your LAME install. 2. Cobble up something that doesn't coming from Item one and go through the CASA approval process, including CAR 35 design authority, P Charts etc. Historical Approvals are ok, but if the history you choose is not from an Approved install then that owner may not be too happy as CASA may review their install and refuse to accept this as acceptable for yours. An STC is the easiest road to travel, costs are known. Option 2 can be easy, hard, cheap and expensive and very time consuming. The joy of the STC is that has all been done by the vendor, they will however be seeking to recoup these costs through the purchase price of their product. Regards John From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Pam Kurstjens Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 8:49 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug We plan to use a Cessna 182P for towing. Does anyone out there have a Cessna 182P already towing and if so, could they help us with info on approvals, P-charts and flight manual supplements? If we can obtain figures already issued by CASA or an engineering firm it will save us time and money. P-charts for a Cessna 182 of lower engine performance would also be helpful, as we could say the performance will be at least as good. CASA used to issue these approvals, P-charts and supplements, but these days the work is done by private firms. I have been in touch with AutoAvia of Bankstown and their advice is to see what info we can find from similar A/C already towing. Many thanks Pam Kurstjens 04 2989 8872 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug
Hi Jenny From what I have heard, the Cessna Hook is no longer available, but the Schweizer hook is the same (maybe the Schweizer hook was sold on the Cessna parts list as the Cessna Hook?)and comes with the installation drawings. Pam -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jenny Ganderton Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 4:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug We used to have a C182 E model at Forbes which was used as a parachute jump plane and a glider tug - but not at the same time! It has a Cessna latch hook on it, and it gave no trouble at all. The rego of the plane is ICU, and it was sold to a couple of club members as neither gliding not parachuting happens at Forbes any more. The hook is still installed as far as I know. I think Lachlan Valley Aviation in Cowra may have fitted the hook. Although latch hooks are not permitted on gliders any more, they are still allowed on tugs. I should have thought that using a Cessna hook on a Cessna tug would be the easiest to get approved - but what do I know? Regards Jenny On 24/10/11 15:58, John McFarlane wrote: The Schweitzer couldn't have been that bad - or they would have attracted AD action to prevent their use Interestingly, to address some of your stated areas of acceptability this company manufactures a Like tow hook with improvements (unable to validate tests/methodology) http://www.wingsunlimitedtowhooks.com/index.html Has anyone had any experience with the hook at all, it looks reasonable. Regards John -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of opsw...@bigpond.net.au Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 12:27 PM To: p...@kurstjens.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Cc: John McFarlane Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Pam, my understanding is that the Schwiezer type hook is not acceptable as it does not have the aligning function that is found in the tost hook design. The outer ring keeps the load at right angles to hook. the old cessna/schweizer hook was mounted on an AN bolt and could move and not release or auto release. Aerial ag at bankstown did fabricate the tost mount in the past. VH-RLC and VH-EFY were two 182's that were used extensively for towing. regards Peter Heath. John McFarlanejohn.mcfarl...@mcfarlane.net.au wrote: = Hi Pam, You can install a hook via two processes: 1. Purchase a Hook installation with a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) from a vendor(Tost, Schweitzer) - comes with everything you need and is a log book entry if installed as per the vendors instructions. STC issuing authority really needs to be FAA or EASA to be accepted. Once in your hand, with the parts, you can just have your LAME install. 2. Cobble up something that doesn't coming from Item one and go through the CASA approval process, including CAR 35 design authority, P Charts etc. Historical Approvals are ok, but if the history you choose is not from an Approved install then that owner may not be too happy as CASA may review their install and refuse to accept this as acceptable for yours. An STC is the easiest road to travel, costs are known. Option 2 can be easy, hard, cheap and expensive and very time consuming. The joy of the STC is that has all been done by the vendor, they will however be seeking to recoup these costs through the purchase price of their product. Regards John From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Pam Kurstjens Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 8:49 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug We plan to use a Cessna 182P for towing. Does anyone out there have a Cessna 182P already towing and if so, could they help us with info on approvals, P-charts and flight manual supplements? If we can obtain figures already issued by CASA or an engineering firm it will save us time and money. P-charts for a Cessna 182 of lower engine performance would also be helpful, as we could say the performance will be at least as good. CASA used to issue these approvals, P-charts and supplements, but these days the work is done by private firms. I have been in touch with AutoAvia of Bankstown and their advice is to see what info we can find from similar A/C already towing. Many thanks Pam Kurstjens 04 2989 8872 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug
The 182 P (1971) appears to have the same Continental O-470 as earlier models back to 1965 and the even earlier ones had a different designation O-470 but still 230HP. Only difference appears to be a higher gross weight (2950lbs on the P which is the same weight as as the 1969 N model) and as you wouldn't be towing at gross (I hope) why is this any different fom any other Continental engined 182? I'm sure I've had tows behind 182s in Australia. Most of the Cessna versions were just the marketing department's spin on the same old, same old. Not that the 182 is in any way a bad aircraft. Surely it would be acceptable to reduce the gross weight for towing to that of the earlier models that have been used for towing? The 182 has plenty of payload so even if used for tow pilot training you could carry the people and plenty of fuel. Besides, from talking to GA pilots few seem to know or care what the empty weight of their aircraft is or the payload they can carry and still be at or below gross. I learned this when phoning people about aircraft they had for sale. Mike At 12:32 PM 24/10/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0102_01CC9249.11911350 Content-Language: en-au Mike Yep, different model. I'm hoping to strike lucky and get performance figures for the 182P. I haven't been able to get much info from club members about that Cessna. I'm also learning a lot about the paperwork process. Thanks to those who have so far responded, I'm getting some really useful info, keep it coming. Pam From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 12:14 PM To: p...@kurstjens.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Pam, Didn't DDSC used to operate a C182? Mike At 10:46 AM 24/10/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_007C_01CC923A.3EFDF150 Content-Language: en-au Hi Cathy Thank you, I'll chase him up. Pam From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Catherine Conway Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 10:30 AM To: p...@kurstjens.com; AUS Soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Tim Laider's 182 had a hook and he towed with it. I think it was done on an STC. Tims details can be found here http://www.riverlandflighttraining.bounce.com.au/about-the-cfi/4540511304http://www.riverlandflighttraining.bounce.com.au/about-the-cfi/4540511304 Cath Sent from my iPhone On 24/10/2011, at 8:49 AM, Pam Kurstjens mailto:p...@kurstjens.comp...@kurstjens.com wrote: We plan to use a Cessna 182P for towing. Does anyone out there have a Cessna 182P already towing and if so, could they help us with info on approvals, P-charts and flight manual supplements? If we can obtain figures already issued by CASA or an engineering firm it will save us time and money. P-charts for a Cessna 182 of lower engine performance would also be helpful, as we could say the performance will be at least as good. CASA used to issue these approvals, P-charts and supplements, but these days the work is done by private firms. I have been in touch with AutoAvia of Bankstown and their advice is to see what info we can find from similar A/C already towing. Many thanks Pam Kurstjens 04 2989 8872 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug
All, dragged it out of the back of the brain. GFA AN 77 refers to Schwiezer hooks. There is some engineering stuff that will assist if you have to design from scratch. Regards Peter Heath Pam Kurstjens p...@kurstjens.com wrote: = Hi Jenny From what I have heard, the Cessna Hook is no longer available, but the Schweizer hook is the same (maybe the Schweizer hook was sold on the Cessna parts list as the Cessna Hook?)and comes with the installation drawings. Pam -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jenny Ganderton Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 4:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug We used to have a C182 E model at Forbes which was used as a parachute jump plane and a glider tug - but not at the same time! It has a Cessna latch hook on it, and it gave no trouble at all. The rego of the plane is ICU, and it was sold to a couple of club members as neither gliding not parachuting happens at Forbes any more. The hook is still installed as far as I know. I think Lachlan Valley Aviation in Cowra may have fitted the hook. Although latch hooks are not permitted on gliders any more, they are still allowed on tugs. I should have thought that using a Cessna hook on a Cessna tug would be the easiest to get approved - but what do I know? Regards Jenny On 24/10/11 15:58, John McFarlane wrote: The Schweitzer couldn't have been that bad - or they would have attracted AD action to prevent their use Interestingly, to address some of your stated areas of acceptability this company manufactures a Like tow hook with improvements (unable to validate tests/methodology) http://www.wingsunlimitedtowhooks.com/index.html Has anyone had any experience with the hook at all, it looks reasonable. Regards John -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of opsw...@bigpond.net.au Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 12:27 PM To: p...@kurstjens.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Cc: John McFarlane Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Pam, my understanding is that the Schwiezer type hook is not acceptable as it does not have the aligning function that is found in the tost hook design. The outer ring keeps the load at right angles to hook. the old cessna/schweizer hook was mounted on an AN bolt and could move and not release or auto release. Aerial ag at bankstown did fabricate the tost mount in the past. VH-RLC and VH-EFY were two 182's that were used extensively for towing. regards Peter Heath. John McFarlanejohn.mcfarl...@mcfarlane.net.au wrote: = Hi Pam, You can install a hook via two processes: 1. Purchase a Hook installation with a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) from a vendor(Tost, Schweitzer) - comes with everything you need and is a log book entry if installed as per the vendors instructions. STC issuing authority really needs to be FAA or EASA to be accepted. Once in your hand, with the parts, you can just have your LAME install. 2. Cobble up something that doesn't coming from Item one and go through the CASA approval process, including CAR 35 design authority, P Charts etc. Historical Approvals are ok, but if the history you choose is not from an Approved install then that owner may not be too happy as CASA may review their install and refuse to accept this as acceptable for yours. An STC is the easiest road to travel, costs are known. Option 2 can be easy, hard, cheap and expensive and very time consuming. The joy of the STC is that has all been done by the vendor, they will however be seeking to recoup these costs through the purchase price of their product. Regards John From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Pam Kurstjens Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 8:49 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug We plan to use a Cessna 182P for towing. Does anyone out there have a Cessna 182P already towing and if so, could they help us with info on approvals, P-charts and flight manual supplements? If we can obtain figures already issued by CASA or an engineering firm it will save us time and money. P-charts for a Cessna 182 of lower engine performance would also be helpful, as we could say the performance will be at least as good. CASA used to issue these approvals, P-charts and supplements, but these days the work is done by private firms. I have been in touch with AutoAvia of Bankstown and their advice is to see what info we can find from similar A/C already towing. Many thanks Pam Kurstjens 04 2989 8872
Re: [Aus-soaring] 1945 airshow
On 23/10/2011, at 7:25 PM, Pam Kurstjens wrote: Magic! I’d heard of a snatch launch but never seen one. There's a better one here: http://slash.dotat.org/~newton/Snatch-Launch.avi (about 1 Mbyte - probably best to Save link as and run it locally) - mark I tried an internal modem,new...@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton - Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 - ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Miles Gore-Brown contact
Hi all, Does anyone have a valid email address for Miles? The one I have is returning an error. Please reply off list. -- Cheers /Tim/ /tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
