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On 30 Aug 2010 at 10:11, Stephen Gray wrote:
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Covenants have special terminology. According to the Bible and Hebrew
they are cut and entered into rather than made. Is there a dictionary or
encyclopedia of covenant related terms.
I don't
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The danger in reading Covenant breaker sites is often not that the
person will be in danger of following these groups; it is that they
destroy one's faith. The confusing answers of Mr. Grey, and his
statement that he is leaving religion altogether, make the point
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I read a quote some time ago that speaks to Brent's point about avoiding
certain sites and materials.
Dee Hock is the founder and the former CEO of Visa International and has a
very good book called, The Birth of the Chaotic Age. He notes, The
problem is never how to
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I have been avidly watching this conversation unfold, as the question of CB
sites had come up just days before.
I subscribe to Google alerts for Bahai articles and videos. Some of
the sites I've visited look absolutely legitimate but still, I get a funny
feeling.
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Actually CB material isn't all negative. There are alot of attempts of several
groups to tie themselves into prophecies ie Bible, Apocrypha, Qur'an, Hadith,
etc.
Only 10% or less of the material I have seen so far is negative.
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After the death of Shoghi Effendi, theree was a proliferation of Baha'i
Institutions.
But, only the following are authoried:
Guardian of the Cause of God
Hands of the Cause of God
Universal House of Justice (Internation Baha'i Council, International Baha'i
Tribunal,
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After the death of Shoghi Effendi, theree was a proliferation of Baha'i
Institutions.
But, only the following are authoried:
Dear Stephen,
And what is your scriptural basis for arguing that the Universal House
of Justice itself is not authorized to establish
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Actually CB material isn't all negative. There are alot of attempts of
several groups to tie themselves into prophecies ie Bible, Apocrypha,
Qur'an, Hadith, etc.
Dear Stephen,
The only CB group I know of that spends a lot of energy trying to tie
themselves in with
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Ian Kluge's Unofficial Orthodox Baha'i website tries to follow the BUPC pattern
of prophecy tieing in, in fact that is the whole concept of his website.
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
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The problem is not so much to avoid reading the sites, as to know
what it is that you are reading, when people are trying to pass
themselves off as something else.
To make it doubly difficult, one of the groups (which may consist
of one person with a bee in his
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Ian s Unofficial Orthodox Baha'i website tries to follow the BUPC pattern of
prophecy tieing in, in fact that is the whole concept of his website.
http://home.comcast.net/~performancepoet/
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To:
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It's not one of their outlined duties. In the abscence of a Guardian, The UHJ
has usurped powers that belong to the Guardian.
Just ask if there were a Guardian, would the UHJ have this much power?
From: Susan Maneck
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Ian Kluge's Unofficial Orthodox Baha'i website tries to follow the BUPC
pattern of prophecy tieing in, in fact that is the whole concept of his
website.
Dear Stephen,
I'm not suggesting that Baha'is who are obsessed with prophecy are
necessarily Covenant breakers,
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If the institution of the Guardianship were still around today, the Guardian
would be an Aghsan and would be a member of the House of Justice. He would
be one of its members and the head member. That is what I have read and
heard over and over from the Writings and very
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Clues to what's not what it seems:
- references to the davidic kingship
- claims to be or speak for the guardian
- claims to be or speak for Hands of the Cause
- names such as 'orthodox bahai' / 'reformed bahai' / Bahais under
the Provisions of the Covenant
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Dee Hock is the founder and the former CEO of Visa International and has a
very good book called, The Birth of the Chaotic Age. He notes, The
problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts in your mind, but how
to get the old ones out.
Problem with CBing
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I would appreciate clear guidance on how to recognize the wheat from the
chaff!
Dear Kathryn,
There isn't any 'clear' guidance on this issue but if you have
suspicions you can always contact the Baha'i Internet Agency. They
pretty much keep up with what is on the
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Important Quotes:
The Baha'i Movement is not an organization. You can never organize the Baha'i
Cause. The Baha'i movement is the spirit of the age. It is the essence of all
the highest ideals of this century. The Baha'i Cause is an INCLUSIVE MOVEMENT:
The teachings
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On 31 Aug 2010 at 8:44, Stephen Gray wrote:
Just ask if there were a Guardian, would the UHJ have this much power?
Yes, it would! The writings of the Guardian are full of things he
defers to the House of Justice, when it is established. One specific
one is the
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Ruth White and Mirza Ahmad Sohrab were declared CB. He gets his ideas from
them.
Dear Stephen,
Yes, but this was longer after he had already left the Faith. And he
ignores the fact that Ruth White and Ahmad Sohrab did not agree with
each other. It was Ruth White who
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Ruth White and Mirza Ahmad Sohrab and Zimmer Hermann (this one iffy?) were
declared CB.
Its Herman Zimmer, and yes he was declared a Covenant breaker.
In regards to Ruth White and Herman Zimmer, Fred Glaysher has done
more than steal their ideas. He set up bogus
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This is Ruth White and Ahmad Sohrab stuff. I'd suggest that you read the
Kitab-i Aqdas, the Ishraqat, Tablets of Baha'u'llah Revealed after the
Kitab-i-Aqdas, messages from Shoghi Efendin in Baha'i Administration and in
World Order of Baha'u'llah, and reda them
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I thought she became a Free Baha'i / Reform Baha'i:
Free Bahá'ís
Reform Bahá'ís To be a Bahá'í simply means to love all the world; to love
humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal
brotherhood.
- Abdu'l-Baha
They claim to be the
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It's not one of their outlined duties. In the abscence of a Guardian, The
UHJ has usurped powers that belong to the Guardian.
Dear Stephen,
And what is your evidence that only the Guardian was authorized to
establish new institutions. The outline duties of the House
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On 31 Aug 2010 at 8:17, Stephen Gray wrote:
After the death of Shoghi Effendi, theree was a proliferation of
Baha'i Institutions.
But, only the following are authoried:
Guardian of the Cause of God
Hands of the Cause of God
Universal House of Justice
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I thought those were actual Unitarian Universalists. Due to there being a
website now, even if he created it, Unitarian Universalists could be becoming
Unitarian Baha'is. They do have a Yahoo group.
Unitarian Universalist do tend to view they Unitarian
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The Baha'i Movement is not an organization. You can never organize the
Baha'i Cause.
Dear Stephen,
What you are citing here is a pilgrim's note by which Ruth White
justified her opposition to Shoghi Effendi establishing the
Administrative Order and by which she
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I thought she became a Free Baha'i / Reform Baha'i:
I don't think she started any organization. The Free Baha'is were
established by Herman Zimmer who used Ruth White's ideas. That
organization has long been defunct. The Reform Baha'is is Fred
Glaysher's own
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On 31 Aug 2010 at 10:14, Stephen Gray wrote:
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http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/
Which one's are which?
Three of them:
Abdu'l-Baha in London
Paris Talks
Promulgation of Universal Peace
are not authenticated (although they do contain
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I thought those were actual Unitarian Universalists. Due to there being a
website now, even if he created it, Unitarian Universalists could be
becoming Unitarian Baha'is. They do have a Yahoo group.
Dear Steve.
Muhammad Ali's so-called Unitarian Baha'is were
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Not to mention they have been predicting a violent apocalypse for decades.
If they didn't have the word Baha'i in their name, I would have assumed
that they were just another American 'Christian' apocalyptic sect.
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Susan Maneck
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*There's also at least one site that claims to speak for Jewish Bahais
and is, I think, probably a dirty tricks scheme by the Iranian
government's anti-bahai agency. It is not really intended to deceive
western Bahais I think; it exists so that the anti-bahai propaganda
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It should take you a lot longer than a week to read most of his writings,
and more importantly, internalize them. This is your life, so I'm not
telling you what to do, but I would suggest to you to slow down. This
isn't a race.
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:48 AM,
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Actually, I don't think Mirza Ahmad Sohrab was officially declared a
covenant-breaker either. Shoghi Effendi said he was a great enemy towards
the faith, but I haven't been able to find a reference where he was declared
a covenant-breaker. Someone more versed in the
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*Recently at a Study Circle a new believer expressed concern as to whether
Baha'is
might be persecuted now that we have a Muslim' as a president.*
I think it is concerning that the President has to ease the tension by
claiming that he's *not *a Muslim, which implies
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Unitarian Universalism goes by the Congregationalist type of administration,
which means that the local congregation makes many of the administration
decisions of their community, even if they do have a head organization at
the top. They are more bottom-up than
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Actually, I don't think Mirza Ahmad Sohrab was officially declared a
covenant-breaker either. Shoghi Effendi said he was a great enemy towards
the faith, but I haven't been able to find a reference where he was declared
a covenant-breaker.
Dear Matt,
I can't show
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I think it is concerning that the President has to ease the tension by
claiming that he's not a Muslim, which implies that there is somehow
something bad about being a Muslim.
I agree. It is no accident the latest discussions of whether Obama is
really a Muslim
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Unitarian Universalism goes by the Congregationalist type of administration,
which means that the local congregation makes many of the administration
decisions of their community, even if they do have a head organization at
the top.
Yes, but I don't think those who
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Is that in Tablets of the Divine Plan?
Not, Stephen, the last tablet of the Master to America, your people*:*
*I am praying for you my brother. *
*A strong embrace,*
*Badi*
*THE MASTER'S LAST TABLET TO AMERICA*
**
O ye friends of God!
'Abdu'l-Bahá is day and
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