Re: [Bitcoin-development] Decentralizing ming

2014-07-18 Thread Mike Hearn
Jeff, I think the message you're replying to got clipped. Satoshi's only comment AFAIK on the topic of GPU mining was to wish for a gentlemen's agreement to postpone it as long as possible, to help make sure the distribution of coins was as even as possible. Indeed this predated pooled mining.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Decentralizing ming

2014-07-18 Thread Mike Hearn
Oops, sorry, I see the subject line changed. This is what I get for working down the thread list top to bottom :) I think the best path forward now is to finish off getblocktemplate support in the various tools so it's possible to pool for payout purposes without giving up control of block

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Decentralizing ming

2014-07-18 Thread Jeff Garzik
Before they got traction, yes. But he projected a bit, as anyone could, to see the trend. On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 1:22 PM, slush sl...@centrum.cz wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: Historical note: On one hand, Satoshi seemed to dislike the early

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Decentralizing ming

2014-07-18 Thread Jeff Garzik
Yes. That, and several other things. If you can figure out how to propagate a block without re-propagating all the transactions everyone already has, you address the large-blocks-slower-to-relay problem, and additionally create an incentive for miners to mine blocks consisting of publicly

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Squashing redundant tx data in blocks on the wire

2014-07-18 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.com wrote: I'd encourage you to code up a prototype first (or at the same time), in whatever programming language / networking library you're most familiar with. +1 Maybe not even using the existing p2p protocol; there could

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Squashing redundant tx data in blocks on the wire

2014-07-18 Thread Gavin Andresen
Two more half-baked thoughts: We should be able to assume that the majority of transaction data (except for coinbase) has already been propagated. As Jeff said, incentivizing nodes to propagate transactions is a very good thing (the signature cache already gives a small incentive to miners to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Squashing redundant tx data in blocks on the wire

2014-07-18 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.com wrote: But if there was some agreed-upon canonical ordering, then it should theoretically be possible to take shortcuts in the what order. You'd start with setof(transactions I think everybody knows about) Select some

[Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Pieter Wuille
Hi all, I've sent a pull request to make a small change to BIP 62 (my anti-malleability proposal) which is still a draft; see: * https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/90 (the request) * https://github.com/sipa/bips/blob/bip62up/bip-0062.mediawiki (the result) It makes two of the 7 new rules

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Mike Hearn
The rationale doesn't seem to apply to rule #4, what's so special about that one? Although I agree not having to support all of DER is nice, in practice I think all implementations do and libraries to parse DER are widespread. Given that the last time we modified tx rules without bumping version

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Pieter Wuille
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: The rationale doesn't seem to apply to rule #4, what's so special about that one? Nothing really. If it's controversial in any way, I'm fine with changing that. It's just one those things that nobody needs, nobody uses, has

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Pieter Wuille
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Pieter Wuille pieter.wui...@gmail.com wrote: But perhaps we should investigate how many non-DER signatures still make it into blocks first... In the last 11 blocks (4148 transactions), apparently none. -- Pieter

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Squashing redundant tx data in blocks on the wire

2014-07-18 Thread Kaz Wesley
Peers exchanging mempool priority policies is great; that accomplishes the flexibility in what txes to remember that I was going for with the forget-filters, but much more neatly, with less overhead and some side benefits. Here's what I'm picturing now: - exchange priority policies in peer

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Squashing redundant tx data in blocks on the wire

2014-07-18 Thread Jeff Garzik
On a flood-fill network, you don't want to create a storm of I already have this replies. On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Kaz Wesley kezi...@gmail.com wrote: Peers exchanging mempool priority policies is great; that accomplishes the flexibility in what txes to remember that I was going for

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Wladimir
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Pieter Wuille pieter.wui...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've sent a pull request to make a small change to BIP 62 (my anti-malleability proposal) which is still a draft; see: * https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/90 (the request) *

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Aaron Voisine
9. New signatures by the sender I'm not suggesting it be required, but it would be possible to mitigate this one by requiring that all signatures deterministically generate k per RFC6979. I'm using this in breadwallet. Aaron Voisine breadwallet.com On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Wladimir

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Decentralizing ming

2014-07-18 Thread Emin Gün Sirer
I thought I'd chime in and point out some research results that might help. Even if they don't, there is a cool underlying technique that some of you might find interesting. The problem being tackled here is very similar to set reconciliation, where peer A thinks that the set of transactions that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Decentralizing ming

2014-07-18 Thread Emin Gün Sirer
My apologies for posting to the wrong thread. On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Emin Gün Sirer el33th4...@gmail.com wrote: I thought I'd chime in and point out some research results that might help. Even if they don't, there is a cool underlying technique that some of you might find

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Squashing redundant tx data in blocks on the wire

2014-07-18 Thread Emin Gün Sirer
I thought I'd chime in and point out some research results that might help. Even if they don't, there is a cool underlying technique that some of you might find interesting. The problem being tackled here is very similar to set reconciliation, where peer A thinks that the set of transactions that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Squashing redundant tx data in blocks on the wire

2014-07-18 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Emin Gün Sirer el33th4...@gmail.com wrote: The problem being tackled here is very similar to set reconciliation, where peer A thinks that the set of transactions that should be in the block is S_A, Most things I've seen working in this space are attempting to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Aaron Voisine vois...@gmail.com wrote: 9. New signatures by the sender I'm not suggesting it be required, but it would be possible to mitigate this one by requiring that all signatures deterministically generate k per RFC6979. I'm using this in breadwallet.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Small update to BIP 62

2014-07-18 Thread Aaron Voisine
Well, you could always create a transaction with a different signature hash, say, by changing something trivial like nLockTime, or changing the order of inputs or outputs. Is that what you're talking about? Or is there some sophistry I'm ignorant of having to do with the elliptic curve math in the

[Bitcoin-development] Signature with negative integer?

2014-07-18 Thread Richard Moore
Hey all, I'm wondering if anyone can help explain to me tx 70f7c15c6f62139cc41afa858894650344eda9975b46656d893ee59df8914a3d... (https://blockchain.info/tx/70f7c15c6f62139cc41afa858894650344eda9975b46656d893ee59df8914a3d) The input signature script is: