Re: Some Questions On Decision Making (was: Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert)
Hi Thorsten, all, Am 21.01.23 um 14:07 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: Hi Andreas, all, Andreas Mantke wrote: If you are not able to share the basics and answer the questions, you are not able to fulfill your function. I think Cor just offered to publish more details. Can we please wait for that? I waited some days yet, but Cor didn't published any further details and also didn't answer any of my questions. When could I and the members / community expect the proposed further details and answers? Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Some Questions On Decision Making (was: Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert)
Hi Andreas, all, Andreas Mantke wrote: > If you are not able to share the basics and answer the questions, you > are not able to fulfill your function. > I think Cor just offered to publish more details. Can we please wait for that? Cheers, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Some Questions On Decision Making (was: Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert)
Hi Cor, I don't think that I'm asking too much details of board work. I think you, the board, are responsible with respect to the community and at least the TDF members to explain in detail your decisions (and it's basics). You handle TDF only as a fiduciary for the members and the community (and also for the donors). If you are not able to share the basics and answer the questions, you are not able to fulfill your function. Regards, Andreas Am 21.01.23 um 11:10 schrieb Cor Nouws: Hi Andreas, I'll ask the board to share the decision, on which the hiring of the external expert is based, public. And for the rest you're asking too much details on board work IMO. Cheers, Cor Andreas Mantke wrote on 20/01/2023 21:56: Hi Cor, if there is a clear description of the task it shouldn't be an issue to make that public at least to the TDF members. And it would also be of interest which consultancy firms you have contacted. Why have you only contacted those firms, although there are a lot of providers of such offerings on the market? What were the detailed criteria to choose only those firms? Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 21:47 schrieb Cor Nouws: Hi Andreas, Good questions. Yes, we had a clear description of the ask. We had contacted 4 consultancy firms with a summary, of which two seemed best matching. We got offerings from them based on the precise description. Finally we've chosen the one which we expect to be most helpful with checking the process as described and taking (a first) look at the wider communication. The price of the offerings did not differ much. HTH, greetings, Cor PS. For me it is not needed to use 'I think the TDF members want to know'. It is OK if you are interested. Andreas Mantke wrote on 20/01/2023 20:23: Hi all, if I look at the price tag of this decision, I' curious if there had been a complete task description done in writing before the decision. And I also think the community and especially the TDF members want to know if there had been a tender with the task description in front of the decision. Had there been done a market analysis / a comparison of cost before the decision? I'd like to note that TDF is a tax-exempt charity, running on donation money. Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 19:00 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, the following decision, which was taken in private on 2022-12-22, is now made public in accordance with our statutes. Cor Nouws wrote on 17/12/2022 11:59: Hello all, Another topic on which we need to make progress urgently IMO. Not only to check the handling, impartiality and objectivity of the CoC case against Paolo, but also get (a first?) external advise on our communication etc. From the comments on the topic - thanks! - there is a clear preference to go with the offering from Central Consultancy & Training. And since we're voting anyway, please cast your vote (+1/-1/0) for this one too by **Monday, 17:00 UTC / 18:00 Berlin time**. –-%<-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-– The board resolves: * Accept the offering from Central Consultancy & Training to execute 'Review handling CoC complaint against board member' as decided on October 17 2022 * As can be found here [redacted, internal link] * The cost for TDF are approx. 14.000 € The vote runs 54h from now. The Board of Directors at the time of voting consists of 7 seat holders (not including deputies). In order to be quorate, the vote needs to have 1/2 or more of the Board of Directors members, which gives 4. A total of 7 Board of Directors members have participated in the vote. The vote is quorate. A quorum could be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes. Result of vote: 5 approvals, 0 abstains, 2 disapprovals. Also one deputy supports the motion. -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert
Hi all, I have to admit that I haven't checked the vote totals when published internally and only now I realise that the totals are wrong. While I notified the board that in my opinion the expenditure is unnecessary as we have the relevant resources, communication expert and a CoC team, within TDF I've voted -1. A member of the board made me noticed that I might be in conflict of interest as the proposed expenditure is, for the best part, related to my complaint that the case was not handled with the due impartiality and objectivity, I agreed with the comment and I revoked my vote. The final vote should be: A total of 6 Board of Directors members have participated in the vote. The vote is quorate. A quorum could be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes. Result of vote: 5 approvals, 0 abstains, 1 disapprovals. Also one deputy supports the motion The result doesn't change as the majority of the board think that we should spend a large amount of money for something that could have been solved months ago with our own resources and without this expenditure but I believe it's important to remove my vote from this decision. Ciao Paolo On 20/01/2023 19:00, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, the following decision, which was taken in private on 2022-12-22, is now made public in accordance with our statutes. Cor Nouws wrote on 17/12/2022 11:59: Hello all, Another topic on which we need to make progress urgently IMO. Not only to check the handling, impartiality and objectivity of the CoC case against Paolo, but also get (a first?) external advise on our communication etc. From the comments on the topic - thanks! - there is a clear preference to go with the offering from Central Consultancy & Training. And since we're voting anyway, please cast your vote (+1/-1/0) for this one too by **Monday, 17:00 UTC / 18:00 Berlin time**. –-%<-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-– The board resolves: * Accept the offering from Central Consultancy & Training to execute 'Review handling CoC complaint against board member' as decided on October 17 2022 * As can be found here [redacted, internal link] * The cost for TDF are approx. 14.000 € The vote runs 54h from now. The Board of Directors at the time of voting consists of 7 seat holders (not including deputies). In order to be quorate, the vote needs to have 1/2 or more of the Board of Directors members, which gives 4. A total of 7 Board of Directors members have participated in the vote. The vote is quorate. A quorum could be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes. Result of vote: 5 approvals, 0 abstains, 2 disapprovals. Also one deputy supports the motion. -- Paolo Vecchi - Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Some Questions On Decision Making (was: Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert)
Hi Andreas, I'll ask the board to share the decision, on which the hiring of the external expert is based, public. And for the rest you're asking too much details on board work IMO. Cheers, Cor Andreas Mantke wrote on 20/01/2023 21:56: Hi Cor, if there is a clear description of the task it shouldn't be an issue to make that public at least to the TDF members. And it would also be of interest which consultancy firms you have contacted. Why have you only contacted those firms, although there are a lot of providers of such offerings on the market? What were the detailed criteria to choose only those firms? Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 21:47 schrieb Cor Nouws: Hi Andreas, Good questions. Yes, we had a clear description of the ask. We had contacted 4 consultancy firms with a summary, of which two seemed best matching. We got offerings from them based on the precise description. Finally we've chosen the one which we expect to be most helpful with checking the process as described and taking (a first) look at the wider communication. The price of the offerings did not differ much. HTH, greetings, Cor PS. For me it is not needed to use 'I think the TDF members want to know'. It is OK if you are interested. Andreas Mantke wrote on 20/01/2023 20:23: Hi all, if I look at the price tag of this decision, I' curious if there had been a complete task description done in writing before the decision. And I also think the community and especially the TDF members want to know if there had been a tender with the task description in front of the decision. Had there been done a market analysis / a comparison of cost before the decision? I'd like to note that TDF is a tax-exempt charity, running on donation money. Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 19:00 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, the following decision, which was taken in private on 2022-12-22, is now made public in accordance with our statutes. Cor Nouws wrote on 17/12/2022 11:59: Hello all, Another topic on which we need to make progress urgently IMO. Not only to check the handling, impartiality and objectivity of the CoC case against Paolo, but also get (a first?) external advise on our communication etc. From the comments on the topic - thanks! - there is a clear preference to go with the offering from Central Consultancy & Training. And since we're voting anyway, please cast your vote (+1/-1/0) for this one too by **Monday, 17:00 UTC / 18:00 Berlin time**. –-%<-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-– The board resolves: * Accept the offering from Central Consultancy & Training to execute 'Review handling CoC complaint against board member' as decided on October 17 2022 * As can be found here [redacted, internal link] * The cost for TDF are approx. 14.000 € The vote runs 54h from now. The Board of Directors at the time of voting consists of 7 seat holders (not including deputies). In order to be quorate, the vote needs to have 1/2 or more of the Board of Directors members, which gives 4. A total of 7 Board of Directors members have participated in the vote. The vote is quorate. A quorum could be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes. Result of vote: 5 approvals, 0 abstains, 2 disapprovals. Also one deputy supports the motion. -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Some Questions On Decision Making (was: Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert)
Hi Cor, if there is a clear description of the task it shouldn't be an issue to make that public at least to the TDF members. And it would also be of interest which consultancy firms you have contacted. Why have you only contacted those firms, although there are a lot of providers of such offerings on the market? What were the detailed criteria to choose only those firms? Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 21:47 schrieb Cor Nouws: Hi Andreas, Good questions. Yes, we had a clear description of the ask. We had contacted 4 consultancy firms with a summary, of which two seemed best matching. We got offerings from them based on the precise description. Finally we've chosen the one which we expect to be most helpful with checking the process as described and taking (a first) look at the wider communication. The price of the offerings did not differ much. HTH, greetings, Cor PS. For me it is not needed to use 'I think the TDF members want to know'. It is OK if you are interested. Andreas Mantke wrote on 20/01/2023 20:23: Hi all, if I look at the price tag of this decision, I' curious if there had been a complete task description done in writing before the decision. And I also think the community and especially the TDF members want to know if there had been a tender with the task description in front of the decision. Had there been done a market analysis / a comparison of cost before the decision? I'd like to note that TDF is a tax-exempt charity, running on donation money. Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 19:00 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, the following decision, which was taken in private on 2022-12-22, is now made public in accordance with our statutes. Cor Nouws wrote on 17/12/2022 11:59: Hello all, Another topic on which we need to make progress urgently IMO. Not only to check the handling, impartiality and objectivity of the CoC case against Paolo, but also get (a first?) external advise on our communication etc. From the comments on the topic - thanks! - there is a clear preference to go with the offering from Central Consultancy & Training. And since we're voting anyway, please cast your vote (+1/-1/0) for this one too by **Monday, 17:00 UTC / 18:00 Berlin time**. –-%<-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-– The board resolves: * Accept the offering from Central Consultancy & Training to execute 'Review handling CoC complaint against board member' as decided on October 17 2022 * As can be found here [redacted, internal link] * The cost for TDF are approx. 14.000 € The vote runs 54h from now. The Board of Directors at the time of voting consists of 7 seat holders (not including deputies). In order to be quorate, the vote needs to have 1/2 or more of the Board of Directors members, which gives 4. A total of 7 Board of Directors members have participated in the vote. The vote is quorate. A quorum could be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes. Result of vote: 5 approvals, 0 abstains, 2 disapprovals. Also one deputy supports the motion. -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Some Questions On Decision Making (was: Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert)
Hi Andreas, Good questions. Yes, we had a clear description of the ask. We had contacted 4 consultancy firms with a summary, of which two seemed best matching. We got offerings from them based on the precise description. Finally we've chosen the one which we expect to be most helpful with checking the process as described and taking (a first) look at the wider communication. The price of the offerings did not differ much. HTH, greetings, Cor PS. For me it is not needed to use 'I think the TDF members want to know'. It is OK if you are interested. Andreas Mantke wrote on 20/01/2023 20:23: Hi all, if I look at the price tag of this decision, I' curious if there had been a complete task description done in writing before the decision. And I also think the community and especially the TDF members want to know if there had been a tender with the task description in front of the decision. Had there been done a market analysis / a comparison of cost before the decision? I'd like to note that TDF is a tax-exempt charity, running on donation money. Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 19:00 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, the following decision, which was taken in private on 2022-12-22, is now made public in accordance with our statutes. Cor Nouws wrote on 17/12/2022 11:59: Hello all, Another topic on which we need to make progress urgently IMO. Not only to check the handling, impartiality and objectivity of the CoC case against Paolo, but also get (a first?) external advise on our communication etc. From the comments on the topic - thanks! - there is a clear preference to go with the offering from Central Consultancy & Training. And since we're voting anyway, please cast your vote (+1/-1/0) for this one too by **Monday, 17:00 UTC / 18:00 Berlin time**. –-%<-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-– The board resolves: * Accept the offering from Central Consultancy & Training to execute 'Review handling CoC complaint against board member' as decided on October 17 2022 * As can be found here [redacted, internal link] * The cost for TDF are approx. 14.000 € The vote runs 54h from now. The Board of Directors at the time of voting consists of 7 seat holders (not including deputies). In order to be quorate, the vote needs to have 1/2 or more of the Board of Directors members, which gives 4. A total of 7 Board of Directors members have participated in the vote. The vote is quorate. A quorum could be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes. Result of vote: 5 approvals, 0 abstains, 2 disapprovals. Also one deputy supports the motion. -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Some Questions On Decision Making (was: Re: [board-discuss] [DECISION] Re: [Vote] hiring external communication expert)
Hi all, if I look at the price tag of this decision, I' curious if there had been a complete task description done in writing before the decision. And I also think the community and especially the TDF members want to know if there had been a tender with the task description in front of the decision. Had there been done a market analysis / a comparison of cost before the decision? I'd like to note that TDF is a tax-exempt charity, running on donation money. Regards, Andreas Am 20.01.23 um 19:00 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, the following decision, which was taken in private on 2022-12-22, is now made public in accordance with our statutes. Cor Nouws wrote on 17/12/2022 11:59: Hello all, Another topic on which we need to make progress urgently IMO. Not only to check the handling, impartiality and objectivity of the CoC case against Paolo, but also get (a first?) external advise on our communication etc. From the comments on the topic - thanks! - there is a clear preference to go with the offering from Central Consultancy & Training. And since we're voting anyway, please cast your vote (+1/-1/0) for this one too by **Monday, 17:00 UTC / 18:00 Berlin time**. –-%<-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-– The board resolves: * Accept the offering from Central Consultancy & Training to execute 'Review handling CoC complaint against board member' as decided on October 17 2022 * As can be found here [redacted, internal link] * The cost for TDF are approx. 14.000 € The vote runs 54h from now. The Board of Directors at the time of voting consists of 7 seat holders (not including deputies). In order to be quorate, the vote needs to have 1/2 or more of the Board of Directors members, which gives 4. A total of 7 Board of Directors members have participated in the vote. The vote is quorate. A quorum could be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes. Result of vote: 5 approvals, 0 abstains, 2 disapprovals. Also one deputy supports the motion. -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
