Erik Reuter wrote:
But I don't see why you must like him to find the book
interesting. Talk about whiny!
Talk about short-term memory loss. I've already said several times in the past few
days that I enjoyed the first TC trilogy quite a bit, despite my distaste for the man
himself. Do I
G. D. Akin wrote:
Julia Thompson responded with:
G. D. Akin wrote:
But did it have to go SIX books?
Did anyone HAVE to read all six? :)
--
No, not really. But I finish what I start (with two exceptions) and I really
wanted to see what the
On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 01:44:35AM -0400, Jim Sharkey wrote:
I suppose I understand why he acted that way, his believing none of
world was real and all, but I never could figure out the point of
creating a protagonist no one would like. That was one of the reasons
I disliked _Ancient of
Jim Sharkey wrote:
I suppose I understand why he acted that way, his believing none of
world was real and all, but I never could figure out the point of
creating a protagonist no one would like. That was one of the reasons
I disliked _Ancient of Days_, too.
G. D. Akin wrote:
Jim Sharkey wrote:
That was one of the reasons I disliked _Ancient of Days_, too.
Which one? The one by Irving Greenfield or the one by Michael
Bishop?
The latter. Some time last year I asked for reading suggestions from the list, and
that was one of the books someone
Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 01:44:35AM -0400, Jim Sharkey wrote:
I suppose I understand why he acted that way, his believing none of
world was real and all, but I never could figure out the point of
creating a protagonist no one would like. That was one of the reasons
On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 09:52:40AM -0400, Jim Sharkey wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I meant, of course, that one should really
like every single character in every book. I can see how you could
read that into the phrase a protagonist no one would like. It
definitely didn't actually mean
Erik Reuter wrote:
Jim Sharkey wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I meant, of course, that one should
really like every single character in every book. I can see how
you could read that into the phrase a protagonist no one would
like. It definitely didn't actually mean what it said, that I
On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 12:09:12PM -0400, Jim Sharkey wrote:
Not necessarily, though since that's not going to happen any time
soon, I don't suppose I'll get to test that theory. And if I didn't
behave like a saint, and I acted like a whiny five-year-old the
entire time to boot, I wouldn't
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Decline in SF?
On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 09:52:40AM -0400, Jim Sharkey wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I meant, of course
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Decline in SF?
On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 12:09:12PM -0400, Jim Sharkey wrote:
Not necessarily, though since that's not going
From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can't understand why people only want to read about characters
they
really like. That gets awfully boring. It is also unrealistic.
I don't mind characters that I don't like or who aren't sympathetic.
What I can't stand are characters who are just
On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 11:41:04AM -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
H... But I *do* like Covenant. He is much more human
than most fictional characters. Most FCs are wish fulfillment/ self
substitutes who win it all in the end against enormous obstacles. TC
only achieves a bit of
Erik Reuter wrote:
I suppose like is too vague a word. I wouldn't want TC as a friend, nor
would I try to emulate him in most things, but I do like to read about
him. He is a complex character with realistic flaws and some virtues,
and he goes through conflicts that I think many people have
Erik Reuter wrote:
Yes, again, duh! He is the anti-hero, you aren't supposed to LIKE him.
But I don't see why you must like him to find the book interesting.
Talk about whiny!
But did it have to go SIX books?
George A
G. D. Akin wrote:
Erik Reuter wrote:
Yes, again, duh! He is the anti-hero, you aren't supposed to LIKE him.
But I don't see why you must like him to find the book interesting.
Talk about whiny!
But did it have to go SIX books?
Did anyone HAVE to
Jim Sharkey wrote:
If by anti-hero you mean whiny little bitch you wanted dead
by the end of the book, I agree. :)
I didn't want him dead. At the end of any of the 6 books. :)
But then again, he is more willing to fight Foul in the second series.
But seriously, I don't even know that I'd
Julia Thompson wrote:
G. D. Akin wrote:
Erik Reuter wrote:
Yes, again, duh! He is the anti-hero, you aren't supposed to LIKE him.
But I don't see why you must like him to find the book interesting.
Talk about whiny!
But did it have to go SIX
Jim Sharkey wrote:
ritu wrote:
most people find TC to be an irritating, whining git. :)
That's only because he *is* an irritating, whiny git. Oddly,
though, I liked the first TC trilogy despite my strong desire
to slap the s--- out of the main character. I think it
speaks well to
Jim Sharkey wrote:
Not necessarily, though since that's not going to happen any
time soon, I don't suppose I'll get to test that theory. And
if I didn't behave like a saint, and I acted like a whiny
five-year-old the entire time to boot, I wouldn't expect
anyone to like me either.
Ah.
Robert Seeberger wrote:
Can't Put A Cape On Him Maru
No point in trying even...he would just rip it up and throw it
away..
Ritu
GCU Berek Half-hand
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database:
I wrote:
I also liked the changes the Land and its inhabitants effect in
Covenant.
'Effected...'
Ritu
GCU Bah! Need to read before I post
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release
Julia Thompson responded with:
G. D. Akin wrote:
But did it have to go SIX books?
Did anyone HAVE to read all six? :)
--
No, not really. But I finish what I start (with two exceptions) and I really
wanted to see what the fuss was about. I was looking
G. D. Akin wrote:
My favourite epic fantasy till date is
Stephen Donaldson's _ The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_.
---
You must've seen something in there that I didn't. I easily
put that series
on the not recommended for any reason list.
Let us
ritu wrote:
snip
There is very little about these series that I don't like [and no,
Covenant doesn't irritate me], I even remember regretting the years
these books were undiscovered by me. :)
However, I rarely recommend the series to people [you'd notice I just
mentioned it- didn't tell
G. D. Akin wrote:
In the first book, there is a lengthy passage about how TC
shaves himself
with a straight-edge and hsi battle to do and not cut
himself. He could've
saved me hours of unenjoyable reading if he' just cut his
throat right then
and there.
*l*
One of my cousins said
ritu wrote:
G. D. Akin wrote:
My favourite epic fantasy till date is
Stephen Donaldson's _ The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_.
---
You must've seen something in there that I didn't. I easily
put that series
on the not recommended for any
ritu wrote:
My guilty reading pleasures veer in the direction of liking some of the
romances I read during my pregnancy. :)
Darn. You mean, I should have been reading romances all this time? :)
Prolly shouldn't have been reading all the Lansdale I did, but geez, for
some warped reason, I
Julia wrote:
My guilty reading pleasures veer in the direction of liking
some of the
romances I read during my pregnancy. :)
Darn. You mean, I should have been reading romances all this
time? :)
Not if you *can* read other stuff. :)
I somehow couldn't. I had nightmares if I read of
Julia wrote:
I read the first one, and didn't see what my fantasy-reading peers saw
in it. (This was in high school.) I think my biggest problem with it
was that TC was irritating and whining. I didn't know the
word git at
that time. :) I didn't want to be reading a book about
From: ritu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwiw, I agree with you. I am not sure what tips the balance in
favour
liking TC but I do think that the chances of liking the
series go up if
you read the books in your early twenties or later.
I read the first TC trilogy when I was in high school and
From: G. D. Akin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
While I'm praising fantasy, read Lois McMaster Bujold's The Curse
of
Chalion. Very good. There is a sequel due out soon, The
Paladin of
Souls, I think.
I've always wanted to try something by Bujold ever since she was
recommended to me by the
Horn, John wrote:
From: G. D. Akin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
While I'm praising fantasy, read Lois McMaster Bujold's The Curse
of
Chalion. Very good. There is a sequel due out soon, The
Paladin of
Souls, I think.
I've always wanted to try something by Bujold ever since she was
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 11:44:17AM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
b) Shards of Honor, if you want space opera. (At least, this is *my*
recommendation as to where to start.)
Although chronologically first, the problem with that is, of course,
that there is no Miles. I tend to recommend people to
John Horn wrote:
Fwiw, I agree with you. I am not sure what tips the balance in
favour
liking TC but I do think that the chances of liking the
series go up if
you read the books in your early twenties or later.
I read the first TC trilogy when I was in high school and loved it.
You
ritu wrote:
Julia wrote:
My guilty reading pleasures veer in the direction of liking
some of the
romances I read during my pregnancy. :)
Darn. You mean, I should have been reading romances all this
time? :)
Not if you *can* read other stuff. :)
I somehow couldn't. I had
Erik Reuter wrote:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 11:44:17AM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
b) Shards of Honor, if you want space opera. (At least, this is *my*
recommendation as to where to start.)
Although chronologically first, the problem with that is, of course,
that there is no Miles. I
John Horn wrote:
But I absolutely loathed the second trilogy. IIRC, everything I
liked about the first series was hacked up and destroyed in the
second.
Ritu wrote:
Well, a few things did survive [and I am very glad Donaldson never
confirmed the destruction of Ranhyn] but the land was
I read the first one, and didn't see what my
fantasy-reading peers saw
in it. (This was in high school.)
Agree. I couldn't even FINISH the first book!
I also never really got into Eddings. I got his
first book out of the
library, and it was OK. They didn't have the second
book. I
for the top post.
- Original Message -
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Decline in SF?
ritu wrote:
G. D. Akin wrote:
My favourite epic fantasy till date is
Stephen Donaldson's
ritu wrote:
most people find TC to be an irritating, whining git. :)
That's only because he *is* an irritating, whiny git. Oddly, though, I liked the
first TC trilogy despite my strong desire to slap the s--- out of the main character.
I think it speaks well to the rest of the characters,
G. D. Akin wrote:
I MOST STRENUOUSLY OBJECT!!
I did not say My favourite epic fantasy till date is Stephen Donaldson's
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Mine was the second comment.
I know if one digs, one may discern who said what in the trail below, but
Ritu likes TC, not me.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 09:35:29PM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
Whoops. Should have cut that bit out -- sorry!
Actually, it wasn't your fault. Ritu cut out the part that said ritu
wrote and then you quoted her post. Although in her defense, there WAS
an extra level of quoting in there, so it
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: Decline in SF?
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 10:15:40AM +0900, G. D. Akin wrote:
ritu wrote;
snip
My favourite epic fantasy
Horn, John wrote:
I've always wanted to try something by Bujold ever since she was
recommended to me by the Library of Alexandria website. But there
are *so* many of them and they all seem inter-related. I can't tell
what order to read them in or even what book to start with!
G. D. Akin wrote:
Horn, John wrote:
I've always wanted to try something by Bujold ever since she was
recommended to me by the Library of Alexandria website. But there
are *so* many of them and they all seem inter-related. I can't tell
what order to read them in or even what book to
From: Jim Sharkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ritu wrote:
most people find TC to be an irritating, whining git. :)
That's only because he *is* an irritating, whiny git. Oddly,
though, I liked the first TC trilogy despite my strong desire
to slap the s--- out of the main character. I
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 11:10:04PM -0500, Horn, John wrote:
Exactly! I couldn't have said it better myself. I mean how many
books have the main character/protagonists (I hesitate to say 'hero')
rape someone within the first 50 pages??
Um, duh? He is an anti-hero.
--
Erik Reuter
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R.
R. Martin. He'll
release no book before its time...
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
I don't know - I read the first one in his new series,
but was just, well, unimpressed. Jordan _started
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which people are you talking about? The main
complaint on UseNet has been
that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of
arms across one's bosom
for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has
as
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R.
R. Martin. He'll
release no book before its time...
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
I don't know - I read the first one in his new series,
but was just, well, unimpressed. Jordan _started out_
a
I think reading Guy Gavriel Kay may have spoiled me
for other epic fantasy, actually.
_Tigana_ is on my unread pile.
I'm not much of a fantasy reader, but _Tigana_ is one of my all-time favorite
genre books. Probably in my top 10.
I'd also strongly recommend _The Anubis Gates_ by Tim
From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R. R. Martin.
He'll
release no book before its time...
I just happen to be about 3/4 of the way through A Game of Thrones
and enjoying it immensely. Any idea how many books that series is
supposed
On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 10:21:46AM -0500, Horn, John wrote:
From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R. R. Martin.
He'll
release no book before its time...
I just happen to be about 3/4 of the way through A Game of Thrones
and
Horn, John wrote:
If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R. R. Martin.
He'll
release no book before its time...
I just happen to be about 3/4 of the way through A Game of Thrones
and enjoying it immensely. Any idea how many books that series is
supposed to end up being...?
ritu wrote;
snip
My favourite epic fantasy till date is
Stephen Donaldson's _ The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_.
---
You must've seen something in there that I didn't. I easily put that series
on the not recommended for any reason list.
George A
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 10:15:40AM +0900, G. D. Akin wrote:
ritu wrote;
snip
My favourite epic fantasy till date is
Stephen Donaldson's _ The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_.
---
You must've seen something in there that I didn't. I easily put that
-Original Message-
From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Decline in SF?
This article by Spider Robinson laments the decline in SF,
replaced by
backwards-looking Fantasy:
From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This article by Spider Robinson laments the decline in SF,
replaced by
backwards-looking Fantasy:
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20
030908/COSPIDER08/
or:
- Original Message -
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Decline in SF?
From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This article
At 08:17 AM 9/10/2003 -0700, you wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Decline in SF?
This article by Spider Robinson laments the decline in SF,
replaced by
backwards-looking
Chad Cooper wrote:
snip
Frankly I have a confession - I have not read any new sci-fi, other than
Brin for about a year. I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone
on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your
suggestion to one per person. - thank you)
Dan wrote:
snip
Which people are you talking about? The main complaint on UseNet has been
that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of arms across one's bosom
for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has as many pages (to with
5) of Path of Daggers. The type set is slightly
Frankly I have a confession - I have not read any new sci-fi, other than
Brin for about a year. I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone
on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your
suggestion to one per person. - thank you)
His Dark Materials
Chad Cooper wrote:
I would agree. I find it very hard to find good sci-fi that strikes me in
the same way as say Pournelle, Asimov, Heinlein, Poul or Niven (and more
recently Brin :-)).
I think this is pure nonsense. Generations come, generations go. We
are all fans of a past generation of
Chad Cooper wrote:
I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone
on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your
suggestion to one per person. - thank you)
Simmons' Illium - in hardcover now.
Doug
About 60 pages into it, so far so good
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which people are you talking about? The main
complaint on UseNet has been
that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of
arms across one's bosom
for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has
as many pages (to with
5) of Path of Daggers. The
The Fool wrote:
He laments on how long Jordan's books are, he knows its
pulp, but he reads it anyway.
These newer ones aren't long enough. After Crown of swords every single
book has been 1/2 the size of previous books. That's why a lot of people
are whining about the new books. They are
On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 07:54:24PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
And _nothing_ happened. It was ridiculous. I cannot think of a
_single_ plot point of any significance that occurred in the entire
book. Heck, I can't think of a single plot point from the entire
book. I can't remember the
From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Over 1,000 pages of thrills, spills, vicious aliens and noble humans. I
found Battlefield Earth un-put-downable.
Neil Gaiman
Did Neil Gaiman really say that about Battlefield Earth? He's not a
Scientologist, is he?
I read BE when it
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which people are you talking about? The main
complaint on UseNet has been
that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of
arms across one's bosom
for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has
as many pages (to
Erik Reuter
snip
If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R. R. Martin. He'll
release no book before its time...
As evidenced by his A Feast for Crows being shifted from a September '03
to a Spring '04 release date.
George A
___
Bryon Daly wrote
Over 1,000 pages of thrills, spills, vicious aliens and noble humans. I
found Battlefield Earth un-put-downable.
- Neil Gaiman
Did Neil Gaiman really say that about Battlefield Earth? He's not a
Scientologist, is he?
I read BE when it first came out,
Doug Pensinger wrote
snip
Long ain't the problem. The problem is they suck. The first one
was great, but they became less and less substantial until by the
time I quit reading them (either book 6 or 16, it doesn't much
matter) they were boring as hell. I always thought that he should
Judith Berman wrote an article on this topic in The New York Review of
Science Fiction several years ago. It was called Science Fiction Without The
Future or something like that.
Tom Beck
www.prydonians.org
www.mercerjewishsingles.org
I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never
Would you guys agree? Is this an indicator that
young people no longer
find the real future exciting? Or is it more just
an indicator of book
publishers overzealously adhering to the latest
trends, while potentially
great SF authors languish unpublished?
I personally think its just a
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