It looks like the server is down again. It's too bad since there were so
many strong programs connected.
I hope it comes back up soon.
I have tried to solve that, but this is seemingly due to a general
failure of the network there (or no more electricity perhaps...),
what is beyond what I can
On Dec 11, 2007 4:00 AM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Erik van der Werf wrote:
On Dec 10, 2007 6:48 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In Go however, even if the fundamental game is unchanged you may be
playing illegal moves if you are not aware of the superko situation.
Hi,
Does someone know what the arguments of Go++ are to start it with gogui?
--mode gtp and -gtp are not working.
Ben
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David Stern wrote:
Akihiro's talk has finally been put online at:
http://content.digitalwell.washington.edu/msr/external_release_talks_12_05_2005/15004/lecture.htm
Good lecture.
Is there a link to a binary (or source code) somewhere ?
I can't find any TsumeGo Explorer website. At
There is some
question about how you define a position (a board state, or a board
configuration i.e. SSK or PSK) but you can nitpick if you want and say
that superko has nothing to do with positions repeating but I think when
a position repeats it's superko.
And when you say it's
On Dec 11, 2007 2:18 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is some
question about how you define a position (a board state, or a board
configuration i.e. SSK or PSK) but you can nitpick if you want and say
that superko has nothing to do with positions repeating but I think when
Are you sure it has a public GTP interface?
On Dec 11, 2007 6:53 AM, Ben Lambrechts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Does someone know what the arguments of Go++ are to start it with gogui?
--mode gtp and -gtp are not working.
Ben
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No, but I hope so, because I find the interface of gogui better than the
one of Go++.
Are you sure it has a public GTP interface?
Hi,
Does someone know what the arguments of Go++ are to start it with gogui?
--mode gtp and -gtp are not working.
Ben
Question: how do MC programs perform with a long ladder on the board?
My understandig of MC is limited but thinking about it, a crucial
long ladder would automatically make the chances of any playout
winning 50-50, regardless of the actual outcome of the ladder. If
this is the case then:
Mark Boon wrote:
Question: how do MC programs perform with a long ladder on the board?
Mogo makes the 20k mistake to push an intrusion of ladder shape into the
own territory like tooth paste. I do not know if this is caused by
reading ladder-like, by juding the adjacent life wrongly (in a
Since Valkyria is slow anyway, I can have it read ladders in the
simulations. The ladder code is really fast and a little buggy, but
works often enough to not cause major problems. I never tested the
benefits of the ladder code it just appeared to be much stronger.
-Magnus
Quoting Rémi
Rémi Coulom wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by push an intrusion of ladder shape
into the own territory like tooth paste.
The game below is a 9 stone handicap game between me and Mogo. It is my
second game against Mogo, after a 7x7 test to understand the GUI and a
first even game
Nick Wedd wrote:
Sorry, but I can't take this seriously. If your board update routine
fails, just fix it. As long as you trust the controller to send legal
moves, it's well defined how the board will look. The same board
update logic can be used for all rulesets. If you don't agree about
the
Ladders are not hard, especially if one is permitted to place stones on the
(virtual) board to trace the flow. A 20 kyu human can follow the logic.
Don, you describe some subtle choices of playing one's opponent, and compare
them to MC programs, but you are a fairly strong chess player. If you
Perhaps servers should have test suites and regression tests for participants.
These would enable bugs to be worked out before engaging in tournament play.
Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED]
They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind
masters; but they mean to be
Raymond Wold wrote:
On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 11:42 -0500, Don Dailey wrote:
In fact, this illustrates a wonderful strength of these programs.
Only it's not strength to ignore a move to your benefit,
Who suggested that it was? The strength of MC programs is how they
deal with
terry mcintyre wrote:
Ladders are not hard, especially if one is permitted to place stones
on the (virtual) board to trace the flow. A 20 kyu human can follow
the logic.
Don, you describe some subtle choices of playing one's opponent, and
compare them to MC programs, but you are a fairly
At this point, it has to be said that _all_ computer go programs suck at 19xc19
go. MC programs happen to suck less, especially on small boards.
On the other hand, we do have some very strong special-purpose go programs.
There are several very strong tsumego/life-and-death programs and at least
It looks like my (3k AGA) CGOS rating (tast-3k) is converging around
2000 ELO. That gives us a zero-point but we need at least one more rated
player (better more) to get the scale.
If you would like to use my GUI please contact me by private email
at ccbirk at gmail dot com.
Christoph
Hi Petri,
I happen to think that MC is the most human like approach currently
being tried.
The reason I say that is that humans DO estimate their winning chances
and tally methods, where you simply tally up features/weights
(regardless of how sophisticated) is not how strong humans think
Are you playing on CGOS? Did you actually build your own GUI for this?
I don't want people playing on CGOS as a general rule except under
controlled circumstance for this purpose, but not just for fun.
I discovered that it's easy to use gtpadapter from gogui and play on
CGOS. The only
2007/12/11, terry mcintyre [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
With Go, there are many situations which can be read out precisely, provided
that one has the proper tools - ladders, the ability to distinguish between
one and two eyes; the ability to reduce eyespaces to a single eye with an
appropriate
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Don Dailey wrote:
Are you playing on CGOS? Did you actually build your own GUI for this?
As I wrote in a previous email, I re-used my 'myCtest' program
but replaced the 'genmove' command with a simple GUI. Just took
me a few hours.
I don't want people playing on CGOS
Make sure that you use the -19 argument when starting 19x19 Mogo, and
restart GoGui (in order to restart Mogo indirectly) after you change
the settings. Somewhat confusingly, Mogo does not automatically play
19x19 style just because it receives a request for 19x19 board. Poor
ladder handling and
On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 13:45 -0500, Don Dailey wrote:
Do you know of an approach that evaluates go positions perfectly?You
are attacking the fact that MC programs have errors in their probability
estimates but completely ignoring the fact that SO DOES EVERY OTHER
EVALUATION FUNCTION.
I
2007/12/12, Raymond Wold [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Are you saying that there is absolutely no way to combine such with an
MC program to make it better? Not just that no one has done it (I don't
know if anyone has) but that it is impossible? Are you saying that
attempts to do so are wasted? If you
Since Valkyria is slow anyway, I can have it read ladders in the
simulations. The ladder code is really fast and a little buggy, but
works often enough to not cause major problems. I never tested the
benefits of the ladder code it just appeared to be much stronger.
-Magnus
What do you do
Raymond,
Playing a strong game of go is a combination of many factors, not just
reading ladders.You could probably isolate out any particular skill
and write some code that does it pretty well. But the question will
always be: How well does it actually play the game?
As has been stated
I have had this experience many times:
1. You see a move that sucks.
2. You identify the problem and engineer a solution.
3. The solution indeed works - it cures the problem.
4. The program plays worse than it did before.
By the way, you are being modest, Antigo is not bad on
Christoph,
Let me know when you are finished, what name you are playing under and
I will do the bayeselo thing to get a better figure. Also, I can
throw out any games that were irregular if you can identify them, such
as if a match started when you were not looking or your interface got
I think AGA and KGS are pretty close. AGA is a real rating system in that
ratings are earned in sanctioned tournaments so they are not disrupted by
casual games. http://www.usgo.org/ratings/default.html
European ratings (also from tournaments) are perhaps 2 stones tougher. Many
think they
I have lurked here for a long time, I find this newsletter very
interesting, because I play Go, I am not a programmer. I agree with
everything Mr Foltand had to say, but would like to add a small bit
about IGS ranks. A few years ago, IGS changed its ranking system so as
to anchor from the top,
SlugGo crashed twice, lost by 72 in an even game to a 6 Dan, and won
1 and lost 1 to 10 kyu players. My estimate is that it was behind in
both games in which it crashed.
Cheers,
David
On 11, Dec 2007, at 11:41 AM, Mark Schreiber wrote:
What happened in the Slugo games at the Cotsen
On Dec 11, 2007 8:53 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The play-out portion is a crude approximation for imagination. We
basically look at a board and imagine the final position.The MC
play-outs kill the dead groups in a reasonably accurate (but fuzzy) way
and put the flesh on the
2007/12/11, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Hi Petri,
I happen to think that MC is the most human like approach currently
being tried
Ye in sense Alpha-Beta is human like. It one feature we do and takes
it to extreme. And using different method of evaluation.
.
The reason I say that is that
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