Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

rren Cook > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:26 AM > To: computer-go@computer-go.org > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses > > > In fact in game 2, white 172 was described [1] as the losing move, > > because it would have started a ko. ... > > &qu

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there's not very many two or three-move combos on an empty board. As staggering as it is, I'm inclined to believe without further evidence that there's no book or just a very light book. s. On Mar 10, 2016 7:50 PM, "Seo Sanghyeon" wrote:

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

2016-03-11 11:42 GMT+09:00 terry mcintyre : > Hypothetically, they could have grafted one on. I read a report that the > first move in game 2 vs. Lee Sedol took only seconds. On the other hand, > it's first move in game 1 took a longer while. We can only speculate. This

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white !important; } According to the paper, AlphaGo did not use an opening book at all, in the version which played Fan Hui. Hypothetically, they

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

Amen to Don Dailey. He would be so proud. From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Jim O'Flaherty Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 6:49 PM To: computer-go@computer-go.org Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses I think we are going to see

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

I think we are going to see a case of human professionals having drifted into a local optima in at least three areas: 1) Early training around openings is so ingrained in their acquiring their skill (optimal neural plasticity window), there has been very little new discovery around the first

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

With at most 2x361 or so different end scores but 10^{XXX} possible different games, there are at least in the opening many moves with the same optimal outcome. The difference between these moves is not the guaranteed score (they are all optimal) but the difficulty to play optimal after that

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

For that reason I guess that AlphaGo opening style is mostly influenced by the net that is trained on strong human games, while as the game progresses the MC rollouts have more and more influence in choosing a move. Is my understanding way off? On Mar 10, 2016 12:40 PM, "Thomas Wolf"

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

If that's the case, then they should be able to give opinions on best first moves, best first two move combos, and best first three move combos. That'd be interesting to see. (Top 10 or so of each). s. On Mar 10, 2016 12:37 PM, "Sorin Gherman" wrote: > From reading their

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

But at the start of the game the statistical learning of infinitessimal advantages of one opening move compared to another opening move is less efficient than the learning done in the middle and end game. On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, Sorin Gherman wrote: From reading their article, AlphaGo makes no

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

>From reading their article, AlphaGo makes no difference at all between start, middle and endgame. Just like any other position, the empty (or almost empty, or almost full) board is just another game position in which it chooses (one of) the most promising moves in order to maximize her chance of

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

Quick question - how, mechanically, is the opening being handled by alpha go and other recent very strong programs? Giant hand-entered or game-learned joseki books? Thanks, steve On Mar 10, 2016 12:23 PM, "Thomas Wolf" wrote: > My 2 cent: > > Recent strong computer programs

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

My 2 cent: Recent strong computer programs never loose by a few points. They are either crashed before the end game starts (because when being clearly behind they play more desperate and weaker moves because they mainly get negative feadback from their search with mostly loosing branches and

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

I doubt that the human-perceived weaknesses in AlphaGo are really weaknesses - after the second game it seems more like AlphaGo has "everything under control". Professional players will still find moves to criticize, but I want to see proof that any such move would change the fate of the game :-)

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

On 10.03.2016 16:48, Darren Cook wrote: in game 2, black 43 and 45 were described as "a little heavy". It did seem (to my weak eyes) to turn out poorly. I'm curious if this was a real mistake by AlphaGo, or if it was already happy it was leading, and this was the one it felt led to the safest

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

One question is whether Lee Sedol knows about these weaknesses. Another question is whether he will exploit those weaknesses. Lee has a very simple style of play that seems less ko-oriented than other players, and this may play into the hands of Alpha. Michael Wing I was surprised the Lee

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

> In fact in game 2, white 172 was described [1] as the losing move, > because it would have started a ko. ... "would have started a ko" --> "should have instead started a ko" ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

I was surprised the Lee Sedol didn't take the game a bit further to probe AlphaGo and see how it responded to [...complex kos, complex ko fights, complex sekis, complex semeais, ..., multiple connection problems, complex life and death problems] as ammunition for his next game. I think he was so

[Computer-go] Finding Alphago's Weaknesses

On 10.03.2016 00:45, Hideki Kato wrote: such as solving complex semeai's and double-ko's, aren't solved yet. To find out Alphago's weaknesses, there can be, in particular, - this match - careful analysis of its games - Alphago playing on artificial problem positions incl. complex kos,