At 02:58 28/07/2007, Arend wrote:
On 7/26/07, chrilly
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a remarkable result. I think poker is more difficult than Go and of
course chess.
I am as surprised by this statement as everyone else. Of course you
have to develop some mixed
@computer-go.org
Sent: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 6:42 am
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
At 02:58 28/07/2007, Arend wrote:?
?
?
On 7/26/07, chrilly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:?
This is a remarkable result. I think poker is more difficult than Go
At 12:42 28/07/2007, you wrote:
At 02:58 28/07/2007, Arend wrote:
On 7/26/07, chrilly
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a remarkable result. I think poker is more difficult than Go and of
course chess.
I am as surprised by this statement as everyone else. Of course
Let's recalculate the game space size for poker.
For a given hand there are N possible actions. For a given hand and a given
action, there are m posssible bets. Then the game space size is
N*M*(no. of hands).
DL
AOL
PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
Let's recalculate the game space size for poker.
For a given hand there are N possible actions. For a given hand and a given
- Original Message -
From: Tom Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
At 12:42 28/07/2007, you wrote:
At 02:58 28/07/2007, Arend wrote:
On 7/26/07
On 7/26/07, Jeff Nowakowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ah, an opponent model. Where's the poision?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes#qt0250635
Too much rock, paper, scissors in poker for my tastes.
BTW, there's a rather sophisticated Rock Paper Scissors player named
Iocane Powder.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
I don't understand this. For a given hand the odds of winning can be easily
calculated
On 7/26/07, chrilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a remarkable result. I think poker is more difficult than Go and
of
course chess.
I am as surprised by this statement as everyone else. Of course you have to
develop some mixed strategies, try go guess implied pot odds, folding equity
etc.
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Humans beat poker bot ... barely:
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/25/289607.aspx
]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
think poker is more difficult than Go and of course chess.
I have only studied poker AI basics and coded game rules, learned play
slightly
On 7/26/07, steve uurtamo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is certainly more money to be made in poker than in go.
Yes, but its also more difficult.
do you mean this in a casual, unsubstantiated way, or in an exact way?
My feeling is that there are a lot of people making a lot of money in
- Original Message -
From: steve uurtamo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
i think that you might be confusing two important things:
i) the difficulty
I don't understand this. For a given hand the odds of winning can be easily
calculated for poker and the best play can be formulated accordingly. It's like
to program a com[uter to win a coin toss. I would be surprised if any side win
big. The only thing a computer can to is to model opponent's
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
I don't understand this. For a given hand the odds of winning can be easily
calculated for poker and the best play can be formulated accordingly. It's like
to program a com[uter to win a coin
As I understand it, bots can try to estimate and play at the Nash
equilibrium. In some sense, that is optimal.
Alternatively/additionally the bot can deviate from equilibrium play
based on opponent modelling.
Finding the NE is hard. I think that is why the rules are restricted,
to make it
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On 7/26/07, steve uurtamo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is certainly more money to be made in poker than in go.
Yes, but its also more difficult.
do you mean this in a casual, unsubstantiated way, or in an exact way?
My
Both.
Its probably not so difficult to make a simple bot. But it is also not
difficult to make a simple UCT player. But I am sure, that reaching the
level of Polaris is more difficult than writing the best Go-programm. I have
the feeling, that Polaris is a very serious project. Its
On Thu, 2007-07-26 at 18:14 +0200, chrilly wrote:
Chess/Go... can be played in an autistic way. There is no need for an
opponent model.
Ah, an opponent model. Where's the poision?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes#qt0250635
Too much rock, paper, scissors in poker for my tastes.
- Original Message -
From: steve uurtamo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
There is certainly more money to be made in poker than in go.
Yes, but its
There is certainly more money to be made in poker than in go.
Yes, but its also more difficult.
do you mean this in a casual, unsubstantiated way, or in an exact way?
s.
Moody friends. Drama
The only thing a computer can to is to model opponent's behavior, which may
deviate from the best play. What did I miss?
No, you didn't miss a thing. I look forward to meeting you
at a poker table, preferably with high stakes.
___
computer-go
Already invented. There is the Alberta Poker-Server.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
Someone start
Someone start a CGOS-like poker server for bots. ~10 person tables,
No Limit Texas Hold-em.
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http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
I think you mean Darse Billings.
Yes, sorry, I can not remember names.
There is certainly more money to be made in poker than in go.
Yes, but its also more difficult.
Chrilly
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computer-go@computer-go.org
On 7/26/07, chrilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a remarkable result. I think poker is more difficult than Go and of
course chess. My hypothesis (its just a hypothesis) for the success is.
There is someone - Dave Billings - who worked for many years very
consequently on the topic. And he is
This is a remarkable result. I think poker is more difficult than Go and of
course chess.
for people, or computers?
poker is a much smaller game than go.
s.
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Humans beat poker bot ... barely:
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/25/289607.aspx
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