Re: [CTRL] The CIA's Secret Army

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] The CIA's Secret Army
-Caveat Lector-




What makes you think Israel doesnt have US permission to do this? Because you didnt hear about it?

Israels military and intelligence is pretty much an independent division of the US military and intelligence. It serves both nations to have this sort of arrangement. They get protection, money, and status  we get a foothold in the oil regions, and a place to test weapons and techniques we pretend to abhor, and make illegal here.


My point, really was more about your focus, than Israels actions.



on 01/29/03 8:35 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Why not mention the British agents who will be working with them? Or agents from any of a number of other international intelligence spooks the CIA has ties with?


Why not indeed. You're right about that, but they still haven't decided to do whatever they want without so much as a by your leave. 


-- --- - 
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it


Elwood P Dowd 



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Re: [CTRL] Sharon calls

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Sharon calls
-Caveat Lector-





Can you cite a source for this info on a different vaccine, or is this just fantasy?

BTW  anything that Jewish citizens get in Israel, the Muslim citizens will also get

on 01/29/03 8:30 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Well not so much a worsening as an elimination. I foresee that since all Israeli have been vaccinated against smallpox (and not with that killer thing we're getting here; they've developed a decent vaccine for Israeli use), and as soon as the war with Iraq gets going, there will be a sudden bio attack of smallpox on Israel which will of course be blamed on Saddam. It will not sicken the Israeli, but the the unvaccinated Palestinians will die off, and Israel's major problem will be solved. I guess it's a modern enactment of that old saw, killing two birds with one stone. Ah well. Prudy


-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you. 
Samuel Adams




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew






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Re: [CTRL] The CIA's Secret Army

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] The CIA's Secret Army
-Caveat Lector-







on 01/27/03 6:58 PM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

ru  for a usually intelligent and open minded person, you are friggin obsessed on this topic.

Why not mention the British agents who will be working with them? Or agents from any of a number of other international intelligence spooks the CIA has ties with?



Yeah, well the Brits haven't decided to take out whomever they don't like right here in River City. 



Do you really believe the British Intelligence have never killed someone in America? Never killed an Irish radical or IRA bankroller here? Cmon... Really? Think James Bond.



The Israeli seem to have rights here that no one else is claiming. 


You mean the same rights America claims for the rest of the globe?




Prudy 


-- -- --  -- --
Planet spins - so do I
neo-sufi wisdom



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew




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Re: [CTRL] Gonna Be Sing-Singing a Different Tune for Their Supper

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

I don't think the lesson is so obvious. Without the Sopranos, these kids
were still going to kill their mother. They just might not have figured out
to cut off their heads and hands - unless of course they read it in a book
or newspaper - a fine source of information no one suggests causes violence
or needs to be banned - There is violence in media because there is violence
in society, not the other way around.

on 01/28/03 10:16 AM, Euphorian at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The lessons kids learn is obvious, said former senator Paul Simon, an
 outspoken critic of violence in the media.

--
-- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me
to tremble for the safety of my country corporations have been
enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money
power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the
prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and
the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety
of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.

Abraham Lincoln




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Re: [CTRL] Sons Of Mau Mau Declare War On Freemasonry

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Sons Of Mau Mau Declare War On Freemasonry
-Caveat Lector-




Those are both Asian religions.


on 01/29/03 2:58 PM, David Sutherland at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The monotheistic Western religions are Judaism and Christianity.


-- 
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -

What do you mean we, white man?
  Tonto




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Re: [CTRL] Are Mega Bucks Helping Sharon Steal Israeli Elections?

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Are Mega Bucks Helping Sharon Steal Israeli Elections?
-Caveat Lector-






An election being influenced by rich and powerful people? Oh my !! That IS a first.


on 01/28/03 9:18 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3004megabucks.html



This article appears in the January 31, 2003 issue http://www.larouchepub.com/eirtoc/2003/eirtoc_3004.html of Executive Intelligence Review. 

Are `Mega' Bucks Helping Sharon
Steal Israeli Elections?



-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -
Truth is more of a stranger than fiction. -- Mark Twain 







NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Re: [CTRL] The CIA's Secret Army

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] The CIA's Secret Army
-Caveat Lector-





Pru  for a usually intelligent and open minded person, you are friggin obsessed on this topic.

Why not mention the British agents who will be working with them? Or agents from any of a number of other international intelligence spooks the CIA has ties with?

on 01/27/03 6:34 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lovely, everybody with his or her own private gestapo. And don't forget the Israeli agents who will be working along with them. Should make for an interesting world. And to think, I used to be worried about the Bloods and the Crypts. Prudy


-- 
-- --- -- --  -- --

I believe reality is a marvelous joke staged for my edification and amusement, and everybody is working very hard to make me happy.
--Terence McKenna


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Om

[CTRL] FW: job hunting

[thew]

Title: FW: job hunting
-Caveat Lector-




-- -- --  -- --
Planet spins - so do I
neo-sufi wisdom



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

-- Forwarded Message


interesting listing on Hotjobs.com

http://www.hotjobs.com/cgi-bin/job-show?TEMPLATE=/htdocs/job-show.htmlJ__PINDEX=J980063UMP__SOURCE=HJCP__SOURCE_SPECIFIC=HJCBOLD_KEYWORDS=(NULL)BOLD_OPENTAG=%3CFONT+color%3Dred+size%3D%2B2%3EBOLD_CLOSETAG=%3C%2FFONT%3E
-- 


-- End of Forwarded Message




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Re: [CTRL] Netherlands Euthanasia Model

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Netherlands Euthanasia Model
-Caveat Lector-




Eugenics and euthanasia are not the same thing.

Who has the ultimate say who lives and who dies? The individual living or dying.

Not so complex or sinister is it?

Funny, you insult our intelligence because we dont have the same views on Godhood as you do. We did not attack you for believing in fairy tales and amorphous father figures. Assuming there is a god as you envision  he gave us freedom of thought, and the ability to control our own lives and destinies. To have it any other way is to spit in the face of the creator.




on 01/27/03 12:37 PM, Joe Smith at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 

What are you all??? Jack Kevorkian imps??? 

Do you even have a clue what road you are barking down...??? 

The moment euthansia is sanctioned by law as it has been done in Holland, kiss your rights goobye charlie... I mean who is going have the ultimate say in who gets snuffed and who doesnt? That is the question here... start thinking for a change, instead of spouting this genocidal euthansia rot. 

Ultimately life and death are in the hands of God almighty.. we are just caretakers of life that has been given to us as a gift... LIFE IS A GIFT .. man is not the ultimate sovereign in control of life... but I suppose that is too above your low level mentality thinking to ponder on. 

Nazism = Eugenics Based Model of thinking as well (aka race control) which goes hand in hand with Euthansia perhaps you have not pondered on that fact. But hey.. why worry.. while the REX82 concentration camps are being primed ala bush and his croneys.. thanks to the initiation of this by the Reagan Administration, you sit back and say .. we should have the ultimate right to kill on demand... well if the present condition of present new age globalist tactics ala americano flavor continues.. you won't have to worry about deciding when to pull the lifeline.. bush will do it for you 

WAKE UP... !!! 

by the way Jack Kevorkian is in big trouble with the courts.. big time... 

William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/26/2003 10:20:54 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It should be up to each individual to decide their own fate; I like the Netherlands' model, where a patient signs a pact with their doctor authorizing VOLUNTARY euthanasia when the patient reaches a certain point in their medical condition...


I agree with you.

Bill. A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

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Om 


Do you Yahoo!?
A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Re: [CTRL] Netherlands Euthanasia Model

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Netherlands Euthanasia Model
-Caveat Lector-



on 01/27/03 3:04 PM, Joe Smith at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 



thew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
-Caveat Lector- 
Eugenics and euthanasia are not the same thing.

-


Of course the dictionary definition of Eugenics and Euthanasia are NOT the exact same thing.. do you think I am that stupid to believe so... lol.. but the fact still remains that they spring from the same evil root and are appendages and tentacles of the same monster... are you that blind that you cannot see this??? 

I guess I am. I am too blind to not see a difference between allowing people to die with dignity, and breeding humans. Silly me. I am also to blind to see these things you call satan and god - can you please show them to me?
---


Your lie of FREE WILL is the most sinister lie ever foisted upon the mind of man... 

Foisted on us by your God, no? Isnt that the core of the whole repentance and born again thing, and the whole key to avoiding hell? God gave us free will, because without it, we are just robots, and good actions and faith have no meaning. Heaven loses its entire reason to exist without free will.


---


lol.. your a fool duped by Satans lies.. wake up!
---
Satan? Never talked to him, so he never lied to me. Hmm same thing goes for the Easter bunny.

Are you SO sure that you are not the one duped by the deceiver's lies? Hes pretty tricky you know.





-- 
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.
Sir Winston Churchill 




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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Re: [CTRL] Jesuit Assasins Who Murdered John F. Kennedy

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Jesuit Assasins Who Murdered John F. Kennedy
-Caveat Lector-





If you do the math the answer is clear

We do not expose Satan because 17+5 = 23


on 01/27/03 3:11 PM, Joe Smith at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 

let get at the root of the greatest conspiratorial anarchists on the face of American Soil that ever existed.. the damned Jesuits.. they killed Abraham Lincoln, they knocked of JFK... and they are continue to do there dirty work in America to this day... you are all so interested in conspiracies on this list.. why do you not expose these workers of Satan... 

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/chart.htm http://www.vaticanassassins.org/chart.htm 

- Chart 



The World System in 1963
 Satan


...the god of this world... II Corinthians 4:4 

Jean-Baptiste Janssens
Jesuit General

Giovanni Battista Montini
Infallible Pope Paul VI

Francis Cardinal Spellman
Archbishop of New York and Knight of Columbus
American Military Vicar

J. Peter Grace, CFR
Head, American Branch
of the Knights of Malta
Head, W.R. Grace  Co.
Sponsored Operation Paperclip
Military Industrial Complex

John A. McCone
Knight of Malta
Military Industrial Complex
Director, Central Intelligence Agency



Reinhard Gehlen
Knight of Malta
General, Nazi Intell
Betrays German Army
General, U.S. Army
Builds CIA
Trains Israel's
MOSSAD 
 James Jesus Angleton  
Knight of Malta
OSS Officer in Rome NKVD / KGB Agent
Chief, Counterintelligence, CIA
Manned Vatican Desk, CIA
Manned Israeli Desk, CIA Kim Philby
Knight of Malta
British SIS
Member of Jesuit Maly's Cambridge Spy Ring
CIA/KGB 
Philby/Oswald
False Defectors 
 Blamed Castro  Oswald  






William F. Buckley, Jr.
Knight of Malta
CFR / CIA Officer
Skull  Bones Member
Editor, National Review 
Blamed Castro
Blamed Oswald

Clay Shaw
Knight of Malta
CIA Officer
Director, Intl. Trade Mart
New Orleans
Tried by Jim Garrison, 1969

Lee Harvey Oswald
ONI, CIA, FBI
False Defector to Russia
KGB/CIA Connection
I'm Just a Patsy 
Murdered by Mafioso 
Jack Ruby
Ruby imprisoned, murdered Warren Commission
Gerald Ford, Congressman
Shriner Freemason
Cartha D. DeLoach, FBI
Knight of Malta
DeLoach aids Ford
Blames Oswald
The Great Jesuit Cover-up
1963 to the Present

Henry Luce
Knight of Malta
CFR / CIA Officer
Skull  Bones Member
Editor, Time / Life
Blamed Castro
Blamed Oswald






E. Howard Hunt
CIA Assassin
Proven to be in Dallas, Texas
on November 22, 1963
in Miami's Federal District Court in 
Hunt v. Liberty Lobby, 1985
Documented in Mark Lane's


 Plausible Denial, 1991 



Charles Colson
Pro-Jesuit Protestant
Aids in Cover-up
 
G. Gordon Liddy
Fordham Jesuit-trained
Aids in Cover-up


 


Assassination of President Kennedy
Knight of Columbus
Rebel to the Pope, in attempting to destroy the Jesuit General's CIA and end 
Spelly's War in Vietnam, and therefore was a notorious tyrant 
whose assassination was lawful, according to the Jesuit Francisco Suarez 


in his Defensio Catholicae Fidei. 
http://www.webtrendslive.com/redirect.asp?siteID=39781 http://www.webtrendslive.com/redirect.asp?siteID=39781 


Do you Yahoo!?
A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

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-- --- - 
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it


Elwood P Dowd 



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Re: [CTRL] Read This WHITEHOUSE.ORG Article IMMEDIATELY!

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Actually, I've been around hospitals my whole life. I know of their
strengths and weaknesses. But as you say, that really is not the issue - it
is the value of life, yes, and also if your life is your own or not.

Is all life equally valuable? You say human life, because I assume you don't
mind the killing of rats, mosquito's and disease causing bacteria. So the
first arbitrary line between life that is valuable and life that is not has
been drawn. I also assume you don't mind the killing of cows and chickens,
et. al., for food and clothing and whatever. So we move up the chain, and
draw the line higher. So if my assumptions are correct it is OK to kill life
as long as it serves humans. Let's see if you are willing to draw the line
higher... How do you feel about the killing of convicted murderer's, child
rapists, etc? How about the killing of the enemy? You know - like if
someone builds bombs for suicide bombers to use in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv?,
Or if soldiers from across a border show up with guns and start killing
innocents, you and your family, etc. I suspect you are not against the
killing of such people. So the arbitrary line of which life is valuable has
shot up further, even beyond the line imposed by being a member of our
species. E.G. You may feel that the life of a leading member of Hamas who is
dedicated to killing others has less value than , say, that of a rabbi who
teaches children. So - again these are assumptions on my part - you do not
feel that ALL human life is equally valued, and to be protected from death.
So then it becomes a matter of opinion, and political stance, who's life is
so valuable, and who's is not. So - to me - I draw that arbitrary line where
it allows non-viable fetuses to be killed, as less valuable than the mothers
who bear them. It allows those who are sick and in pain to end their lives
if they wish.
Why do I draw the line where I do? Because to me my belief in freedom for
the individual includes the concept that we own our own bodies. That the
State does not have the right to restrict what I do with my own body, which
includes what foods or chemicals I ingest, who I have sex with (and whether
or not I charge the for it), whether or not I bring a fetus to term, and the
right to die at a time of my own choosing.

But - that's just me - you mileage my vary.



-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- -- --
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you.
   Samuel Adams




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Sex Kills (Bush Kills)

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

It seems that except for a misguided restriction of the blame to certain
ethnicities or religions, the sentiment is not far off - the only thing that
has ever slowed the progress of civilization is civilized humans.

on 01/26/03 8:27 AM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It seems
 that animals are to be protected because they are pure in species and do
 not impact on civilization's demise; they do not stop the progress of
 the human race as racially polluted people such as Jews and Christians,
 who because of their physical pollution carry forth polluted cultural
 ideas.

--

The concept of ³god² is just a future memory of ourselves.

Barney
Funkasaurus



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] FW: [TechGnosis] CHEMTRAILS -the story so far

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

--
Your wetware is more important that your hardware.

Baba Rom Dos








NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

-- Forwarded Message


  The Other Side of 'Chemtrails' 
 by Jay Reynolds


http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/new_articles.cfm?articleID=646journalI


 D=66


 


-- End of Forwarded Message

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Nobel laureate under fire

[thew]

 in this; that they were not just passive spectators of the revolution. They
 were part-victims and part-perpetrators.

 It is not a question that anyone can write about without a huge amount
 of bravery, and [it] needs doing in Russia because the Jews are quite often
 written about by fanatics. Mr Solzhenitsyn's book seems much more
 measured than that.

 Yet others failed to see the need for Solzhenitsyn's pursuit of this
 particular subject at present. Vassili Berezhkov, a retired KGB colonel and
 historian of the secret services and the NKVD (the precursor of the KGB),
 said: The question of ethnicity did not have any importance either in the
 revolution or the story of the NKVD. This was a social revolution and those
 who served in the NKVD and cheka were serving ideas of social change.

 If Solzhenitsyn writes that there were many Jews in the NKVD, it will
 increase the passions of anti- semitism, which has deep roots in Russian
 history. I think it is better not to discuss such a question now.

 Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003
 Forwarded for your information.  The text and intent of the article
 have to stand on their own merits.
 
 In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
 is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
 expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
 for non-profit research and educational purposes only.
 
 Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do
 not believe simply because it has been handed down for many genera-
 tions.  Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and
 rumoured by many.  Do not believe in anything simply because it is
 written in Holy Scriptures.  Do not believe in anything merely on
 the authority of teachers, elders or wise men.  Believe only after
 careful observation and analysis, when you find that it agrees with
 reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all.
 Then accept it and live up to it. The Buddha on Belief,
 from the Kalama Sut

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 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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 Om

-- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - -
--  -- - -- -
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that
accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due
process of law.


Edward R. Murrow






NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Read This WHITEHOUSE.ORG Article IMMEDIATELY!

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Banning abortion and suicide and euthanasia, is of course not about
population control, but state sponsored slavery.

If you own your own body, none of these things can be illegal. However if
you are property of the state, an owned worker, then your boss has the right
to do with your body as s/he pleases, and you have no rights over your own
body.

It is not abortion, et al, that forces the individual to make sacrifices for
the good of the state, but their illegality, that forces individuals to
subsume their own best interests to those of the ruling class.

on 01/25/03 2:02 AM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Euph, I hope I'm not the first to tell you that you are probably the
 product of inbreeding which has short-circuited your ability to think
 beyond clichés.  You have done us a service by posting this link.
 Before looking at anything you post, we should ask ourselves is this
 just another of his goofy beliefs which he thinks we should share or is
 it something he has spent some time researching in depth which might add
 to the debate.

 Abortion and its continuation, euthanasia, are methods of voluntary
 population control that are really at the center of the move to force
 the individual to make whatever sacrifices are necessary for the good of
 the community as determined by the cultural elite.  The Nazis were
 masters at that kind of mental manipulation of their followers.  Want to
 debate that?  If so, you should do some serious research on the actual
 abortion and early euthanasia policies of the Nazis.  No yuks in that
 research.

--
-- --- -- --  -- --

I believe reality is a marvelous joke staged for my edification and
amusement, and everybody is working very hard to make me happy.
 --Terence McKenna


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read This WHITEHOUSE.ORG Article IMMEDIATELY!

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Now we get into the question of - at what point does a fetus become a
person.

For me - it's at the point it is viable without the womb -




on 01/25/03 4:17 PM, Party of Citizens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

* http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens **

 On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, thew wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Banning abortion and suicide and euthanasia, is of course not about
 population control, but state sponsored slavery.

 If you own your own body

 So a pregnant woman has 4 eyes?

 duh!

 POC
 (LEZ)


 , none of these things can be illegal. However if
 you are property of the state, an owned worker, then your boss has the right
 to do with your body as s/he pleases, and you have no rights over your own
 body.

 It is not abortion, et al, that forces the individual to make sacrifices for
 the good of the state, but their illegality, that forces individuals to
 subsume their own best interests to those of the ruling class.

 on 01/25/03 2:02 AM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Euph, I hope I'm not the first to tell you that you are probably the
 product of inbreeding which has short-circuited your ability to think
 beyond clichés.  You have done us a service by posting this link.
 Before looking at anything you post, we should ask ourselves is this
 just another of his goofy beliefs which he thinks we should share or is
 it something he has spent some time researching in depth which might add
 to the debate.

 Abortion and its continuation, euthanasia, are methods of voluntary
 population control that are really at the center of the move to force
 the individual to make whatever sacrifices are necessary for the good of
 the community as determined by the cultural elite.  The Nazis were
 masters at that kind of mental manipulation of their followers.  Want to
 debate that?  If so, you should do some serious research on the actual
 abortion and early euthanasia policies of the Nazis.  No yuks in that
 research.

 --
 -- --- -- --  -- --

 I believe reality is a marvelous joke staged for my edification and
 amusement, and everybody is working very hard to make me happy.
  --Terence McKenna


 NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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 Om


 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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 Om

--

The concept of ³god² is just

Re: [CTRL] Read This WHITEHOUSE.ORG Article IMMEDIATELY!

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

And I hope you are never in a situation where your are in incurable pain day
in and day out and are prevented from ending your life and forced to live in
misery because someone, for you own good, made it illegal for you to die
when you wish.

on 01/25/03 9:51 PM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 You missed the words voluntary followed by population control.
 International Planned Parenthood isn't about doing favors for women who
 find themselves carrying a child and then decide to change the
 situation.  If so, this largest providing abortion operation would be in
 the business of providing free abortions.  The idea is to keep
 population numbers down, particularly numbers of those who they feel are
 a drain on society.  Here where money is available to pay for abortions,
 the goal is to sell the idea to gullible women in ways that are no
 different than telling them that certain cosmetics will enhance their
 lifestyle.  There is no difference between parents feeding their babies
 to Moloch for population control and abortion on demand.  Take a good
 look at population control measures under the UN and International
 Planned Parenthood in third world countries.

 If it was just a matter of letting women have control over their own
 bodies there wouldn't be such an attack on people who are pro-life:
 throwing law suit after lawsuit against in an attempt to bankrupt them,
 attempting to stop them in every way possible from dissuading women
 against abortion, creating situation where parents do not have knowledge
 of what is happening to their female children's bodies.  If pro-lifers
 were given free reign, population numbers would go up, something the
 controllers do not wish to allow.  The bottom line is that the rich in
 society cannot afford to support in any way useless eaters.

 Choice over one's death is another con game being played by the
 population controllers.  Old people cost the government and medical
 insurance companies too much money.  So, what's to be done?  Convince
 the elderly that what is being done to them is a burden on their
 families.  (Ever watch the films played in the hospitals?  I have.)  Get
 them to sign pieces of paper which say the doctors can determine if
 their lives have value beyond what the costs to keep them alive are.  I
 have a friend whose husband was sent home to die with hospice care,
 saying he needed no further treatment beyond a visiting nurse.  He's
 been alive for seven years now.  Did you ever have a HMO doctor rush a
 relative with pneumonia out of the hospital because the HMO only would
 pay for three days in the hospital?  He had refused over and over again
 to sign a living will to their disappointment.

 Thew, I hope you never find yourself in a situation where the value of
 your life is out of your hands because someone convinced those around
 you that your life had no value.  There is nothing that limits a
 culture's respect for life to those who survive birth and who are
 somewhere before a quick death.  Respect for the life of another is a
 very subtle thing.  How strange that a woman can determine that her
 child's life has no value and society accepts this.  Destroy aspects of
 respect for life and you destroy your own future.  Are you going to wait
 until someone proposes public guidelines as to which lives are of value?
 Are you aware that at the Nuremberg trials it was determined that it all
 started with a little book called Release of a Life Devoid of Value?

\
--
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

What do you mean ³we², white man?
Tonto




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] ISRAEL'S NEW POLICY OF TERRORISM ON AMERICAN SOIL

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] ISRAEL'S NEW POLICY OF TERRORISM ON AMERICAN SOIL
-Caveat Lector-




Again  this policy is an EXACT mirror of Americas war on terrorism policy.

on 01/21/03 5:39 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

A recent UPI report http://kevxml2a.infospace.com/_1_OY9T5W04I69RZH__info/kevxml?kcfg=upi-articlesin=2003011516200305078otmpl=/upi/story.htmqcat=newsrn=419qk=10passdate=01/15/2003 outlined Israels new policy of assassinating suspected terrorists on American soil. In other words, Israel is now going to officially carryout terrorism on U.S. soil. 

Isnt that what murder is? As an American citizen you cannot murder, why should agents of a foreign government have any such right in your country?


-- 
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -

Calling a rationalist an a-theist is like a soccer player accusing a baseball player of not having any goal posts.





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Re: [CTRL] ISRAEL'S NEW POLICY OF TERRORISM ON AMERICAN SOIL

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] ISRAEL'S NEW POLICY OF TERRORISM ON AMERICAN SOIL
-Caveat Lector-





Not worse  equally as bad at best -

And probably not as bad, only because America has been doing it for years ( think Chile) while Israel is just starting

But yeah - ok

on 01/22/03 5:57 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/22/2003 3:00:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Again  this policy is an EXACT mirror of Americas war on terrorism policy.


America's policy sucks and this one sucks worse...ok???

Bill.


A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance


-- 
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -

Calling a rationalist an a-theist is like a soccer player accusing a baseball player of not having any goal posts.





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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Re: [CTRL] Images of the Sporting Crowd

[thew]

, an environmental group, said the increased deduction for big
 vehicles was yet another loophole that the government is keeping open
 that is increasing our oil dependence.

 Before, it was large enough to drive a small S.U.V. through, he added.
 Now it's large enough to drive a Hummer through.

 Without altering the treatment of cars in the tax code, the Bush plan
 could run counter to the administration's recent decision to force
 automakers to improve the fuel economy of S.U.V.'s, pickups and
 minivans by 7 percent by middecade.

 That is probably why the administration is open minded when it comes
 to reviewing the tax treatment of different kinds of vehicles.

 Dr. Graham reiterated today that the administration was also
 considering further fuel economy measures. S.U.V.'s and pickups that
 weigh more than 8,500 pounds fully loaded have been exempt from
 federal fuel regulations. But the administration is currently investigating
 whether those rules should be extended to larger light trucks weighing
 as much as 10,000 pounds, he said.


 Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Permissions | Privacy
 Policy

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-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when
the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally
alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest
dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal,
well-meaning but without understanding.
Justice Louis D. Brandeis





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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Re: [CTRL] Front-line troops disproportionately white, not black

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Actually what Rangel said was that too few in congress and positions of
wealth and power were risking their own children, regardless of race, and
thus were far to cavalier about going to a war that would not cause them any
suffering.

As to the numbers -

The jobs that have high prestige - pilots, green berets, etc - are not given
to blacks, nor are blacks encouraged to try for prestigious jobs.



on 01/21/03 12:47 PM, klewis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Though Rangel is right that blacks and lower-income
 Americans still serve in disproportionate numbers, that fact
 misses another significant trend. While blacks are 20% of the
 military -- compared with 12% of the U.S. population -- they
 make up a far smaller percentage of troops in combat jobs on
 the front line.

 In a host of high-risk slots -- from Army commandos to Navy
 and Air Force fighter pilots -- blacks constitute less than 5% of the
 force, statistics show.

 Blacks, especially in the enlisted ranks, tend to be
 disproportionately drawn to non-combat fields such as unit
 administration and communications. They are
 underrepresented in jobs shooting rifles or dropping bombs.

 Examples:

 * Of the Army's 45,586 enlisted combat infantryman, 10.6%
 are black.

 * Of the Air Force's 12,000 pilots, 245, or about 2%, are
 black.

 * In the Navy, 2.5% of the pilots are black.  Senior Air Force
 officials say they are troubled by the number of black pilots and plan
 to do better.

 * The Army's enlisted Green Berets are among the least
 diverse groups in the military. Only 196 of the Army's 4,278
 enlisted Green Berets -- fewer than 5% -- are black.

 The reasons for the racial divide are unclear, but several
 theories have emerged, including lingering racism in some
 quarters of the military and a tendency among black recruits to
 choose jobs that help them find work in the civilian sector.

--

To be nobody but yourself, in a world which is doing its best, night and
day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle that any
human being can fight--and never stop fighting.

-  e.e. cummings









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[CTRL] Arafat says he backs new leaders in his party

[thew]

Title: Arafat says he backs new leaders in his party 
-Caveat Lector-



 
Arafat says he backs new leaders in his party



JERUSALEM (CNN) --On what was supposed to be the first election day for Palestinians in seven years, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat said Monday that he is actively pursuing new politicians within his Fatah party to take over his post.

I am pushing them, and I am proud that our movement, our party Fatah, has a very big amount of people and members, and we are very proud of them, he said in an exclusive interview with CNN's Michael Holmes.

The first and only Palestinian Authority elections took place in January 1996. The Palestinian Authority was scheduled to hold elections in May 1999, according to the Oslo agreement, but the postponement of peace talks delayed the vote.

The Palestinian Authority then set a date for January 20, 2003, which also has been put off indefinitely.

Arafat said he welcomed opposition candidates, pointing out that he was not the only candidate in the last elections.

There was another candidate -- she's a famous lady, and she took more than 10 percent; I have 87 percent, he said, referring to the late Sameeha Khalil, the leader of a charitable organization.

You're planning to be around for a while longer though? Holmes asked.

This is according to God and to the wishes of our voters, Arafat said.

Arafat has been under pressure for some time to reform the Palestinian Authority or to step aside.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon refuses to resume peace negotiations with the Palestinians until Arafat is replaced. In June, President Bush -- without mentioning Arafat by name -- said the United States would support the creation of an independent Palestinian state if the Palestinian people elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror.

Arafat on Monday blamed Israel for the postponement of elections, saying its forces have to withdraw from the Palestinian territories.

How this can be accepted internationally? he said. We were ready, and everything had been declared, and we had informed the [Madrid] 'quartet' [Russia, United Nations, United States and the European Union], we had informed all the Arab countries, we had informed the United Nations, we had even ... asked from many of these countries to send, as they had done in the previous elections, observers.

Israeli troops have intermittently occupied various cities and territories in the West Bank and Gaza since the latest Palestinian intifada, or uprising, began in September 2000. Israel said the measures are necessary to prevent further attacks, and it claims the crackdown has prevented dozens of potential suicide bombers from getting into Israel.

Arafat dismissed that argument.

Oh, suicide bombers? Does this, the suicide bombers in America ... delay your democracy also and your election in America? he said. You know that we are against it. Everyone knows that we are against it, and we had declared that, and we take many steps, and recently we had arrested some of them.

Arafat's Fatah movement is the mainstream faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization and is dedicated to the formation of an independent Palestinian state. Fatah's military offshoot, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, has claimed responsibility for numerous terror attacks against Israeli civilian and military targets. The U.S. State Department has designated it as a foreign terrorist organization.

Arafat said he would like to hold an election as soon as possible, saying all that was needed was at least one month for preparation and the withdrawal of Israeli troops.

He said that the most important thing we need is to live in peace, together side by side, with the Israelis.

This is terra santa, the holy land. The peace here is very important, not only for the Palestinians but for the whole world.

Addressing reports that he has taken millions of dollars in aid money, Arafat denied the corruption charges.

They are saying I have billions of dollars in many banks everywhere. For your information, I am proud that I am not taking salaries, not from the PLO, not from the PA [Palestinian Authority] -- I refused, he said.

CNN Producer Sausan Ghosheh contributed to this report.

 
 

 
Find this article at: 
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/20/arafat/index.html 

 
 



 
It is not the function of our government to keep the
citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
to keep the government from falling into error. 

Justice Robert H. Jackson




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Re: [CTRL] (Fwd) Tolerance Totalitarians

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

I see a few problems here -

1) - tentt Lott and his comments on strom Thurmond -

Thurmond ran on a party, the dixiecrats, that's central platform, and the
reason it split from the majority party, was segregation. In other words the
only way they distinguished themselves as a party was on the issue of race.
So to say that country would have been better if the leader of that party
wins IS a statement about the policies of that party - whether or not that
is what Lott intended. To say that the country would be better off if the
segregationist party won certainly sounds like a ringing endorsement of
racial division and inequality.

More telling was the best lie Lott could come with was the he often voted
against his conscience when he supported various racially divisive policies.
So he was either a liar then, or he's a liar now. Not much of a defense
really.


2) the confederate flag.

No one - no one suggested that Maurice be banned from using the flag as a
private citizen, or that his stores be shut down. Citizens and businesses ,
by choice, decided to pull their products because they did not agree with
his actions. This is called democracy. See how it works - people decide.

It does not matter that the flag stands for something else as well as the
slavery issue. Just as it does not matter that the swastika is a Hindu
symbol. It has taken on the other larger meaning, and just as you wouldn't
want a Hindu congressman flying the swastika from his office, the stars and
bars acre in the same situation.



on 01/19/03 9:53 AM, klewis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 --- Forwarded message follows ---


 Tolerance Totalitarians by Steven Yates
 Over the months I’ve occasionally taken a little heat for having once written
 a
 column endorsing Bush the Younger over Gore back in 2000. Whether we would be
 any better off under a Gore Regime than the Bush Regime we have is something
 we
 (thankfully!) shall never have to find out.

 Republicans, though – especially since
 the takeover of the GOP in the early 1990s by the neocons – have not only
 failed to
 stand up to those I will call tolerance totalitarians, they have joined them.
 The
 Trent Lott fiasco illustrated this perfectly. The cultural Marxists didn’t
 have to
 lift a finger. Lott was tarred and feathered by his own party not excepting
 Bush the
 Younger, and it never occurred to the political elites or media talking heads
 to
 connect Lott’s remarks with anything except race.

 But when it comes to advancing the cause of thought control in America,
 Republicans still don’t quite measure up to Democrats. Consider, for example,
 remarks made by former House Minority Leader and newly announced Democratic
 presidential hopeful Dick Gephardt during his recent visit to South Carolina.
 Gephardt denounced the Confederate flag and stated that it should not be
 accorded
 any official display anywhere in the state…. The Confederate flag is a
 hurtful,
 divisive symbol and, in my view, has no place flying anywhere in any state
 in this country. He added in an interview with Columbia’s The State
 newspaper: I
 want to be crystal clear to the people of South Carolina where I stand on this
 issue.
 The flag should not fly anywhere in this country…. [M]y own personal feeling
 is that
 the Confederate flag no longer has a place flying any time, anywhere in our
 great
 nation.


snip
--

The concept of ³god² is just a future memory of ourselves.

Barney
Funkasaurus



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Deception By Language

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

What a great argument.

How about if we call conservatives : baby eating monsters and liberal
angelic ones
Then people would overwhelmingly come in favor of angelic ones.




on 01/19/03 1:11 AM, iNFoWaRZ at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 How does this relate to politics? The ordinary person on the street has no
 interest in politics. He does not know the history related to words 'liberal'
 or 'conservative'. He makes a random choice. But if on the other hand he was
 given a choice between a Constitutionalist and a Socialist, the results would
 overwhelmingly come in favor of the Constitutionalist.

--
-- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me
to tremble for the safety of my country corporations have been
enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money
power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the
prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and
the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety
of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.

Abraham Lincoln




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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Deception By Language

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

I'm with you there

The constitution is a remarkable document. Not complete, but remarkable.

Tell me - do constitutionalists accept the amendments to the constitution,
or only the original form?

on 01/19/03 11:11 AM, iNFoWaRZ at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 At 10:58 AM 1/19/03 , you wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

 What a great argument.

 How about if we call conservatives : baby eating monsters and liberal
 angelic ones
 Then people would overwhelmingly come in favor of angelic ones.

 How about if we tell the truth and call Democrats, elite totalitarian
 socialist tyrants.
 And call the neo-con Republicans, elite totalitarian socialist tyrants.
 And the small number of Americans who still believe in American heritage and
 the Constitution, Constitutionalists.
 THEN, it would be the Constitutionalists versus the entire corruption that is
 Washington DeCeived, and THEN, something could be accomplished.

 Until then it is phoney partisan squabbles until America falls off the cliff
 and is sucked into the elites Global Plantation.  American stands at the edge
 of that cliff now.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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--
To Bigotry No Sanction,
to Persecution No Assistance

George Washington









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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Oz Concerns About Mossad Death Squads

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Oz Concerns About Mossad Death Squads
-Caveat Lector-




Is this any different that our so called war o iraq, and the war on terrorism we are waging in general?



on 01/19/03 2:08 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Israeli death squads have been authorised to enter friendly countries and assassinate opponents in a move that raises the prospect of political killings in Australia.     

Agents of the Israeli secret service Mossad have been given free rein to kill those deemed to be a threat to the Jewish state - wherever they are hiding.   

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who has until now refused permission for assassinations on the home ground of allies, has reversed the policy as part of a more aggressive approach to terrorism.   


-- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -




Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, is in a final sense, a
theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

-- Dwight David Eisenhower, 1953




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] (Fwd) Tolerance Totalitarians

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Hindus are a protected minority?

I agree - policy is more important than window dressing

But window dressing sends a message too - and I don't think a hindu governor
would be allowed to fly a swastika from the statehouse

on 01/19/03 3:16 PM, klewis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 On 19 Jan 2003 at 10:55, thew wrote:



 It does not matter that the flag stands for something else as well as the
 slavery issue. Just as it does not matter that the swastika is a Hindu
 symbol. It has taken on the other larger meaning, and just as you wouldn't
 want a Hindu congressman flying the swastika from his office,


 I would be more interested in what he did in office than what he flew
 from his office.  Anyway as a protected minority he'd be given a
 pass even if he intended it in the other larger meaning.

 --

 Outgoing mail is certified virus free
 Scanned by Norton AntiVirus

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 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
William of Occam


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Oz Concerns About Mossad Death Squads

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Agreed.

However people make it seem extra sinister around here if it's israel doing
it.

on 01/19/03 4:28 PM, Jei at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 It just serves to make the double-moralism America
 practices even more blatant. If it's OK for America
 to kill foreigners it considers criminals, then why
 not for everyone else. If everyone takes this same
 approach and follows suit, the whole world will in
 fact be at war. Everyone with each other.

 Law was meant to deal with terrorist criminals in
 other countries. War takes place when this does not
 happen. Israel and United States are committing acts
 of war.

 On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, thew wrote:

 Is this any different that our so called war o iraq, and the ³war on
 terrorism² we are waging in general?

 on 01/19/03 2:08 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Israeli death squads have been authorised to enter friendly countries and
 assassinate opponents in a move that raises the prospect of political
 killings
 in Australia.

 Agents of the Israeli secret service Mossad have been given free rein to
 kill
 those deemed to be a threat to the Jewish state - wherever they are hiding.

 Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who has until now refused permission for
 assassinations on the home ground of allies, has reversed the policy as part
 of a more aggressive approach to terrorism.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
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 Om

--
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

What do you mean ³we², white man?
Tonto




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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 A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Oz Concerns About Mossad Death Squads

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

People who are anti-Semitic because of ol' uncle al really didn¹t understand
a word he was saying.



on 01/19/03 6:26 PM, Samuel Antoine Moser at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Agreed.

 However people make it seem extra sinister around here if it's israel
 doing
 it.

 --

 Do you know why this is so? It is because many people here are followers
 of Aleister Crowley and the Ordo Templi Orientis and the Thelemic Order
 of Golden Dawn. These people are ANTI-SEMIT to the extreme. Just like
 Hitler.

 Don't you know that the Aleister Crowley crowd is BIG in the conspiracy
 scene? So are the Church of Satan. All Occultists and even Wiccans are
 VERY anti-Jew unless the Jew is a follower of Kabbalah. If the follow
 the Torah then they are hated by these people as much as Hitler hated
 them.

 --

 http://www.donet.com/~moser/index.htm



 on 01/19/03 4:28 PM, Jei at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 It just serves to make the double-moralism America
 practices even more blatant. If it's OK for America
 to kill foreigners it considers criminals, then why
 not for everyone else. If everyone takes this same
 approach and follows suit, the whole world will in
 fact be at war. Everyone with each other.

 Law was meant to deal with terrorist criminals in
 other countries. War takes place when this does not
 happen. Israel and United States are committing acts
 of war.

 On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, thew wrote:

 Is this any different that our so called war o iraq, and the ³war on
 terrorism² we are waging in general?

 on 01/19/03 2:08 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Israeli death squads have been authorised to enter friendly
 countries and
 assassinate opponents in a move that raises the prospect of
 political
 killings
 in Australia.

 Agents of the Israeli secret service Mossad have been given free
 rein to
 kill
 those deemed to be a threat to the Jewish state - wherever they are
 hiding.

 Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who has until now refused permission
 for
 assassinations on the home ground of allies, has reversed the policy
 as part
 of a more aggressive approach to terrorism.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
 propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups
 with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
 thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts,
 and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

 
 Archives Available at:
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om

 --
 -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - -
 --
  -- - -- -

 What do you mean ³we², white man?
   Tonto




 NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
 propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups
 with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
 thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
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 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy

Re: [CTRL] Oz Concerns About Mossad Death Squads

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Speaking of kabbalh -

You take YHVH and add the Sh of man and you get the name jesus.

Is it deep? No, just stupid.



on 01/19/03 8:43 PM, Samuel Antoine Moser at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 These Aleister Crowley people also believe that YHWH = YAHWEH = JEHOVAH
 is a powerful demon that Moses conjured up but could not control.

 What the original movie the Mummy and see all the anti-Semite messages
 and subliminal persuasion to make it look like the mummy got its power
 from YHWH = YAHWEH = JEHOVAH to make it look like JEHOVAH God was Satan
 when in reality it is the god they follow is Satan.

 I watch Arnold Swarzenigger (sic) on Entertainment Tonight promoting the
 movie Armageddon saying; Armageddon may come! Satan may return!.

 It is JEHOVAH God and JESUS Christ who return at Armageddon to bring
 judgment on this wicked world. Satan is already here causing misery and
 suffering to mankind. Arnold Swarzenigger was calling JEHOVAH God and
 His Son JESUS Christ, Satan!!!

 This is just the beginning. Hollywood is run by these occultists.

 --

 http://www.donet.com/~moser/index.htm


 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
 Behalf Of Samuel Antoine Moser
 Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 6:27 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Oz Concerns About Mossad Death Squads

 -Caveat Lector-

 Agreed.

 However people make it seem extra sinister around here if it's israel
 doing
 it.

 --

 Do you know why this is so? It is because many people here are followers
 of Aleister Crowley and the Ordo Templi Orientis and the Thelemic Order
 of Golden Dawn. These people are ANTI-SEMIT to the extreme. Just like
 Hitler.

 Don't you know that the Aleister Crowley crowd is BIG in the conspiracy
 scene? So are the Church of Satan. All Occultists and even Wiccans are
 VERY anti-Jew unless the Jew is a follower of Kabbalah. If the follow
 the Torah then they are hated by these people as much as Hitler hated
 them.

 --

 http://www.donet.com/~moser/index.htm



 on 01/19/03 4:28 PM, Jei at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 It just serves to make the double-moralism America
 practices even more blatant. If it's OK for America
 to kill foreigners it considers criminals, then why
 not for everyone else. If everyone takes this same
 approach and follows suit, the whole world will in
 fact be at war. Everyone with each other.

 Law was meant to deal with terrorist criminals in
 other countries. War takes place when this does not
 happen. Israel and United States are committing acts
 of war.

 On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, thew wrote:

 Is this any different that our so called war o iraq, and the ³war on
 terrorism² we are waging in general?

 on 01/19/03 2:08 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Israeli death squads have been authorised to enter friendly
 countries and
 assassinate opponents in a move that raises the prospect of
 political
 killings
 in Australia.

 Agents of the Israeli secret service Mossad have been given free
 rein to
 kill
 those deemed to be a threat to the Jewish state - wherever they are
 hiding.

 Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who has until now refused permission
 for
 assassinations on the home ground of allies, has reversed the policy
 as part
 of a more aggressive approach to terrorism.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
 propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups
 with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
 thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts,
 and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

 
 Archives Available at:
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of
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 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om

 --
 -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - -
 --
  -- - -- -

 What do you mean ³we², white man?
   Tonto




 NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http

[CTRL] Antiwar protests open in D.C.

[thew]

 


-- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.

Abraham Lincoln




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Bright College Days, Dark White House Years

[thew]

Title:  Bright College Days, Dark White House Years
-Caveat Lector-



 



Bright College Days, Dark White House Years
January 16, 2003
By demosthenes

It is clear the personal style and deep-rooted sensibilities of both GWB and Bill Clinton were made, or at least made plain during their time in college. Because the White House mirrors its occupant and thus magnifies the personal into political, it projects upon our history their every strength and flaw. 

Clinton's education, self-motivated and largely self-financed, was the all-nighters, cram sessions and bull sessions with all and sundry, fueled by pizza, by driving ambition, by love of debate and the clash of ideas and by the wholehearted and successful pursuit of advancement, of knowledge for its own sake' and of anything in a skirt. And yes, lies were told, The dog ate my essay, I have to retype it, Of course you're the only one and that old favorite, The check is in the mail. 

Bush, on the other hand, never had to lie about money because he was never short of it. He was a Yale legacy, there for his gentleman's C because it was expected of him. He regarded both learning and the learned with patrician disdain. Instead his focus was social, and elitist - Skull and Bones and the sons of his father's rich friends. If he furnished his mind at all in his time at Yale, it was with the received wisdom of the rich, and certainly not the bothersome and complicated book learning that he has never even pretended to value. 

The effect on their respective administrations is clear. 

The elitism and cronyism which shaped GWB's life and 'education' are on display with every tone-deaf appointment of his father's old apparatchiks, men like Kissenger or Poindexter. 

And even after an election with much discussion about character, once in the White House, it's all about process. How are decisions reached? Who has input? Are policies subject to change when circumstances change? Does the man seek out advice from experts, even when they might not agree with him? If so, does he actually listen to what they have to say? 

These, like the way disagreements are resolved within a family, tend to reflect the personality traits of the man of the house and there are real differences between the Clinton and GWB households. 

Clinton's is a big, noisy kitchen table where people argue things out to exhaustion with Clinton playing the genial ringmaster, listening, asking questions, arguing, convincing or being convinced in turn. Bush is much more the autocrat. There's not a lot of room for dispute at his table, and not a lot of room for doubt in his worldview. 

But more than this, his distaste for book learning and expertise has created a White House sans white-papers. Decisions come from GWB's heart, where he knows such truths as that the rich pay far too much in taxes, from the K Street corporate lobbyists or straight from the right wing playbook via Karl Rove. 

But proposing a policy change, whether from the heart or from K Street, is only the beginning of the process, right? Well, no. With Bush, there is no policy process. 

John DiIulio's letter to Esquire conveyed his insight into the Bush White House. Remember, this is a friend of Bush's, the man he picked to head his Faith Based Initiative. DiIulio describes an administration where there is virtually no research, no discussion, review or consultation involved in the making of policy. 

One of Bush's major foreign policy decisions was made by a speechwriter's rhetorical flourish. Hertzberg's article on how the phrase Axis of Evil was crafted after 9/11 to justify a war with Iraq and how it got, all-too-casually, populated with three very different nations for reasons that had nothing at all to do with that attack on our country. Nuclear weapons for N. Korea are what we got from that speech; what we wanted was a bullet for Saddam. 

During his time in the White House, Bill Clinton lied and covered up in various petty ways, and chased the occasional skirt just as he did in college. But his administration's policies were determined in often-passionate dialogue between real, educated and experienced authorities in the relevant fields, with Clinton's considerable intellect driving the discussion, not only asking the tough questions, but actually listening to the answers. 

This meant each of the Clinton-era policies was, at least potentially, firmly rooted in the best available data and vigorously vetted by any number of strong-willed individuals. It ensured that the implications and even many of the unintended consequences of each possibility had been at least discussed. 

Even in those cases where political expedience overruled policy expertise, decisions were made in a fully developed informational context - when Bill Clinton chose to ignore the experts, he damn well knew what conclusions they'd reached, and he knew when and why he was doing something different. 

And even more important, the process made it far less 

[CTRL] OOOOh

[thew]

Title: h
-Caveat Lector-




 
 
Ghost ship mystery deepens



PERTH, Australia --The riddle of an Indonesian-registered, Taiwan-owned trawler carrying several tons of rotting fish, seven toothbrushes, but no crew is baffling Australian police.

The ghost ship was found last week drifting aimlessly off the Western Australian coast and has since been towed to a quarantine bay close to the fishing port of Broome.

However, police say that despite an extensive search there is no sign of the ship's crew, or any indication of what might have happened to them.

We have insufficient evidence at this stage to even speculate on what has occurred, federal agent Bill Graham told reporters.

The mystery has deepened further after investigators revealed Tuesday that the ship, the High Aim 6, had recently been some 3,500 nautical miles (6,500 kilometers) away in the Marshall Islands, halfway between Papua New Guinea and Hawaii, The Australian newspaper reported.

Shortly afterwards the owner reported to U.S. authorities that the ship was missing after he had been unable to contact its captain.

Adding to the confusion are mixed reports as to the numbers of those onboard.

Toothbrushes

Police say the only clue as to how many crew the ship may have carried being the discovery of seven toothbrushes in the living quarters.

There is, however, no clue as to what might have happened to them, or why they might have abandoned an otherwise perfectly serviceable ship.

Police believe the captain of the vessel was from Taiwan, with Indonesians making up most of the rest of the crew.

An aerial and naval search of the surrounding seas did not yield any sign of life or any life vessels that might have come from the ship.

It is unclear whether the ship even carried life rafts.

Piracy

At this stage we have not located the crew or discovered any plausible reasons for their absence from the ship, Graham was quoted as saying.

The simple answer is we may never determine the fate of the crew, he added.

The vessel was found carrying more than three tons of rotting tuna and mackerel in its hold, and had plenty of fuel and food.

Officials say one possibility if that the boat piloted itself all the way from the Marshall Islands.

Another line of inquiry is focusing on the possibility of piracy, a growing problem in the region.

However, investigators say there is no sign of a struggle, or that anything might have been stolen from the boat.

Our main concern is for the safety of the crew,  Graham told reporters. As time goes on the prospects of locating the crew alive decrease.

 
 

 
Find this article at: 
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/01/14/aust.ghostship/index.html 
 

 
 



-- 
 Doubt. 
Doubt thyself.
Doubt even if thou doubtest thyself.
Doubt all.
Doubt even if thou doubtest all.
It seems sometimes as if beneath all conscious doubt
there lay some deepest certainty. O kill it! Slay the
snake!
The horn of the Doubt-Goat be exalted
Dive deeper, ever deeper, into the Abyss of Mind,
until thou unearth the fox THAT. On, hounds!
Yoicks! Tally-ho! Bring THAT to bay!
Then, wind the Mort!

Uncle Al. the kiddies pal




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Antonin Scalia - Supreme Court Evangelist

[thew]

one or the other as a public persona, and hang the other in the closet. Judicial evangelism is the worst kind of judicial activism. The ghosts of Sept. 11 should serve as a constant reminder of the dangers of official religious intolerance. If Scalia wishes to live under the boot of theocracy, he should consider moving to Saudi Arabia, home to 15 of the 19 al-Qaeda hijackers. 


Patrick Ennis: Articulating the views of the secular, liberal, Midwestern working class because, frankly, somebody has to (and nobody else is). 
-- 

The concept of god is just a future memory of ourselves.

Barney Funkasaurus



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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Do you read democratic underground?

[thew]

 and scholarly expertise, this is a regime without a reality principle  without a capacity to return to Earth and to deal with the real world. 

Examples abound and, since I have expounded upon them a length elsewhere, I will let a simple enumeration suffice (with links to my elaborations): 


* Global warming. The international scientific community is convinced. Bush's reply is either to ignore it or consign the question to the black hole of further study.


* The CIA has failed to find any significant link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. Donald Rumsfeld's response, in effect: we have our policy, don't confuse us with facts.


* Missile defense has the support of almost no independent scientists. Worse yet, even if (however improbably) it were to work, there is no prospect whatever that it would ever be needed.


* Supply side economics, when adopted by Reagan and Bush-I, turned out to be a spectacular failure. Its abandonment by Bill Clinton led to unprecedented prosperity and a federal surplus. Now supply side its back and, not surprisingly, with it has come a repetition of the economic malaise suffered during the administration of Bush's Dad. 


In short, science, evidence and expertise be damned, our minds are made up. Or, as Todd Gitlin puts it, Bush is a man with a ferocious will who fumbles in search of reasons to explain why he does what he feels like doing. (The American Prospect, January-February, 2003, p. 37). 

Such dogmatism assures that the Bushistas will not be in close touch with the real world. And so, unfortunately for them and perhaps for us too, in the end they will discover that reality bites. 

Like most dogmatists, if provoked and challenged, the Bushistas will likely dig in and persist with their policies until the untenability of those policies becomes compellingly obvious even to the Bush regime. Then, it will likely be too late for them to effect a remedy. At this point they will be vulnerable. Unfortunately, they might also become dangerous, if despotism becomes the only means to avoid their ouster. Also, the failed policies may provoke military adventures, or ostracism from the international community, or a collapse of the domestic economy. And that would be bad for all of us. 

Before the folly of Bushism leads to such catastrophes, the opposition must proceed immediately, with dedication, vigor, and strategic intelligence. And we must amass an alliance of opposition that will become irresistible. However improbably, this alliance must include, not only progressives, liberals, intellectuals, feminists, greens, and labor, but also those who are now allied with the Bush regime: among them, authentic conservatives, publishers and broadcasters, entrepreneurs, and even corporate officers. 

To all these, and especially the latter, we must ask again and again: Wherein lies your fundamental loyalty: to your party, or to your country, its constitution, and its founding principles? Are you helping to bring about the kind of country and world that you would wish yourself, your family, your children and grandchildren, and your posterity to live in? 

These are just a few strategic ideas that come to the mind of this political amateur. Surely the pros must have better ideas than these. Which leads to my final and most urgent questions: 


* Why haven't the Democrats put these better ideas into play? 


* Why, instead, has the Democratic opposition been so servile, so passive, so unimaginative, and thus so vulnerable? 


* Why have the Democrats allowed themselves to be 'suckered' by the GOP? 


* Why do the Democrats shun their natural allies and imitate their adversaries? 


* Why do the Republicans seem to have a corner on tactical smarts? (Not, as we have seen, because they have the better issues). 



So when are the Democrats going to wise-up and start to play strategically smart hard-ball? 

 

 Democratic Underground, LLC

 



Free your mind and your ass will follow.
St George 


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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[CTRL] Were you scared? Were you ready to go to war? Ready to sacrifice freedom for security?

[thew]

Title: Were you scared? Were you ready to go to war? Ready to sacrifice freedom for security?
-Caveat Lector-



  
Missing Plague Accounted For
FBI Accounts for All Bacteria Samples Reported Missing From Texas Lab
From Wire Reports
L U B B O C K, Texas, Jan. 15 

 All vials of bubonic plague reported missing from Texas Tech University Health Science Center have been accounted for, officials said today. 


About 30 vials containing samples of the lethal bacteria were thought to have disappeared from Texas Tech University. 

We have accounted for all those missing vials and we have determined there is no danger to public safety whatsoever, said Guadelupe Gonzalez, the special agent in charge of the FBI's Dallas office.

Gonzalez declined to say whether the material had been stolen or merely misplaced. A criminal investigation into the matter was continuing, he said. 

The Lubbock Avalanche-Journal's Web site, quoting unidentified law enforcement sources, said the vials were noticed missing earlier this week, but the incident was not reported to police until Tuesday. Sixty investigators from various agencies converged on the medical school campus, the newspaper said.

The school said the research was being conducted by Dr. Thomas Butler, chief of its infectious disease division, who has been studying the plague for more than 25 years. 

White House officials had been briefed on the plague reports, said spokesman Ari Fleischer. 


Disease Treatable With Antibiotics

Bubonic plague is an infectious disease of animals and humans caused by a bacterium named Yersinia pestis. People usually get it from being bitten by a rodent flea that is carrying the plague bacterium or by handling an infected animal.

The disease can be treated with antibiotics. Health officials say 10 to 20 people in the United States contract plague each year. About one in seven U.S. cases is fatal.

 Lubbock, Texas, is in northwest Texas, south of Amarillo. 

Plague outbreaks have killed about 200 million people in the past 1,500 years. The most infamous, the Black Death, started in 1347, killing 25 million people in Europe and 13 million in the Middle East and China within five years.

Plague  along with anthrax, smallpox and a handful of other deadly agents  is on a short watch list distributed by the federal government, which wants to make sure doctors and hospitals recognize a bioterror attack quickly.

But plague's symptoms can be difficult to spot. The disease is characterized by swelling, weakness and fever, symptoms that can signal anything from flu to West Nile virus.

Bubonic plague is not contagious. But left untreated, it can transform into pneumonic plague, a more dangerous disease that can be spread from person to person. 

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you. 
Samuel Adams




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew






A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Do Vegetarians Taste Like Chicken?

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Do Vegetarians Taste Like Chicken?
-Caveat Lector-





More evolved than the Buddha, who ate meat?
Whose brilliant moment of realization of the divine middle path came after starvation and asceticism with the offer of unclean food from a gopi?

WOW! 

on 01/15/03 6:37 PM, Steve Wilson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/15/03 8:56:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

When I was a kid we would just slap Henny Penny on
a stump and whack her head off with a hatchet.

I Steve Wilson am a vegetarian.
I am a victim of human rights abuses involving electronic implants and mind control.
I am not a racist and am subject to hate crimes.
I Steve Wilson am Bhuddist and beleive that it is important to stop the suffering of all living things. I am a cyborg via forced evolution my mind is interfaced with computer
networks via biological telemetry. Humans use artificial intelligence and Syntel or synthetic telepathy to read my mind and project thier voices into my brain.
Some are civilized others are cruel.I Steve Wilson support Peta and human rights orginizations.
For the human species to evolve they must learn to respect the other life forms they share this planet with. Stopping the cruelty to animals stops cruelty in general
people who dont kill animals will generally not harm humans.
Eating flesh is a primitive practice and I have evolved beyond it.
Jan 2003 A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- --- - 
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it


Elwood P Dowd 



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations
-Caveat Lector-





Like the US doesnt kill foreign nationals on foreign soil.
Please...


on 01/15/03 8:32 PM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/15/2003 6:27:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Israel is embarking upon a more aggressive approach to the war on terror that will include staging targeted killings in the United States and other friendly countries, former Israeli intelligence officials told United Press International.



Golly gee--anyone know the Hebrew version of mi casa su casa? Prudy A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om



Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
William of Occam


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew





A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations
-Caveat Lector-




Why is it worse breaking American law than the law of some other country?


on 01/15/03 10:07 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



With the annoying little difference that they're doing so on American soil.
Both cases are wrong, but to allow a foriegn agency to break American laws on American soil is beyond the pale.


-- 
To Bigotry No Sanction,
to Persecution No Assistance

George Washington


 






NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 





A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations
-Caveat Lector-





Ah. A reasoned response. Thank you.

on 01/15/03 10:28 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/15/2003 9:25:08 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Why is it worse breaking American law than the law of some other country?


Because I am an American, that's why.

Bill. A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


- -- --- - 

You should view the world as a conspiracy run by a very closely-knit group of nearly omnipotent people, and you should think of those people as yourself and your friends. 

--Robert Anton Wilson 







NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 





A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations
-Caveat Lector-




How do you feel about Americans killing Americans on foreign soil?

on 01/15/03 11:00 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/15/2003 9:36:02 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Did we break Yemeni law? Your double standard is showing.


I said that I disapproved of that too dude.
I am more affected frankly by the Mossad killing people in violation of American law on American soil however.

Bill. A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you. 
Samuel Adams




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew






A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] German Cannibals

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Dutch cannabis is better

on 01/15/03 10:09 PM, flw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 German sect accused of rape and cannibalism
 By Kate Connolly in Berlin
 (Filed: 16/01/2003)

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- -- --
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you.
   Samuel Adams




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

We all know he is a Saudi groveling oil whore first and foremost.

Silly asshole, thoughts are for humans.


on 01/16/03 12:07 AM, Party of Citizens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

* http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens **

 On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, William Shannon wrote:

 In a message dated 1/15/2003 10:39:15 PM Central Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 How do you feel about Americans killing Americans on foreign soil?

 It is truly a wondrous thing. Whatever it takes for a piece of
 Jew-Grovelling-Faggot-White-Shit like Junior to prove his
 texas-white-faggot supremacy and suck japhethite/and/or/edomite kike
 cock.

 FULL METAL JACKET

 POC
 (LEZ)

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
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 Om

--
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

Calling a rationalist an a-theist is like a soccer player accusing a
baseball player of not having any goal posts.





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Belgium amending law to try Sharon for War Crimes

[thew]

se be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- 
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. 

Theodore Roosevelt





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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Re: [CTRL] FULL METAL JACKET

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Call colleen jim, maybe she can send you some meds.

on 01/16/03 12:17 AM, Party of Citizens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Fuck you piece of KIKE SHIT. Ripping your throat out on a Vietnam
 Battlefield is the true joy of every red blooded yankeedoodler. Hee haw,
 all must remember the alamo!!!

 The POC'ster
 (LEZ)

* http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens **

 On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, james gale wrote:

 Pure filth from obviously  a  mentally deficient individual. Jim...

 - Original Message -
 From: Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:07 AM
 Subject: RE: [Politics] [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations


  * http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens **

 On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, William Shannon wrote:

 In a message dated 1/15/2003 10:39:15 PM Central Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 How do you feel about Americans killing Americans on foreign soil?

 It is truly a wondrous thing. Whatever it takes for a piece of
 Jew-Grovelling-Faggot-White-Shit like Junior to prove his
 texas-white-faggot supremacy and suck japhethite/and/or/edomite kike
 cock.

 FULL METAL JACKET

 POC
 (LEZ)

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-- --- -
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to
state I finally won out over it



Elwood P Dowd



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
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Re: [CTRL] GI Joe

[thew]

 in anything merely on the authority of teachers, elders or wise
 men.  Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when
 you find that it agrees with reason and is conducive to the good
 and benefit of one and all.  Then accept it and live up to it.
 The Buddha on Belief, from the Kalama Sutra

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 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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--
All the thoughts of a turtle are turtle

  Emerson, Journals, 1855







NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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Re: [CTRL] Amazing Moon Landing Footage

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Amazing Moon Landing Footage
-Caveat Lector-





That is the most unconvincing thing I have ever seen

on 01/13/03 9:57 PM, Shemuwel Antoine Moser at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 
http://www.moontruth.com http://www.moontruth.com/ 

 

Amazing Moon Footage revealing the moon landings were a hoax.

 

http://www.donet.com/~moser/index.htm 

My internet site above.
A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- 
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant 
facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies and competitive values. For 
a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and 
falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its 
people. 
President John F. Kennedy 




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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

1% and 10% are not the same.



Look govt costs money. To me it seems those who have the most (myself
included), those who benefit the most, from our society, those who can best
shoulder the burden of keeping our society running, should pay the lion's
share. We all want good schools, good roads, etcetc. This costs If joe
paying the same dollar amount, starves his children in order to pay, that's
a problem. Clearly. If Steve can pay more, with less effect on his life,
doesn¹t it make sense he should? It does to me.


on 01/13/03 2:04 PM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 MJ
 The Government is requiring them to pay the same -- income
 has no bearing.
 What does equity in taxation have to do with income?  Wealth?

 Thew's Tax Charity would aid Joe in meeting his fair share of
 taxes (which would necessarily be low -- approaching zero ... while
 an abundance of wealth would necessarily exist -- making those in
 Joe's situation necessarily few).


-- --- -
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to
state I finally won out over it



Elwood P Dowd



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Bill Moyers Interviews Howard Zinn

[thew]

 at the beginning of the war, they're the bad guys, you're the good guys, and therefore everything goes. And so we just did this. And so, we destroyed the town of Royan. Killed Frenchmen, killed women, children, killed the German soldiers. Victory. And it was only afterwards-- it was only after Hiroshima and Nagasaki that I thought about that. And then I thought about Dresden. And then I thought about the other-- killing civilians in the war. Unnecessary even from the point of view of winning the war. And I thought war brutalizes everybody involved in it. 

BILL MOYERS: Is your conclusion that we should not fight wars then because there will be civilian casualties? 

HOWARD ZINN: Yes. (LAUGHS) Yes. 

BILL MOYERS: Does this make you a pacifist? 

HOWARD ZINN: No. I-- I-- I avoid the word pacifists. And the reason I avoid it-- is that it suggests passivity. That is people think of pacifists as somebody who are going to sit by and do nothing while, you know, maybe mediate, while terrible things go on in the world. No. I mean-- I think-- I keep coming back to the fact that political tyrannies like Iraq have to be juxtaposed against other problems in the world which are very, very serious. I don't believe in passivity. I believe we should do something about these problems. But we should not do war. Because war makes things worse than they were before. War has consequences which you cannot predict. 

BILL MOYERS: How would you have us fight terrorism? 

HOWARD ZINN: What I'm suggesting is change our posture from that, from a military superpower to a humanitarian superpower. We are enormously wealthy. Let's use that wealth to send medicine to Africa. Let's use that wealth to help change social and economic conditions around the world. 

BILL MOYERS: So, here we are a few days away from that decision and possible war. What do you think is going to happen? 

HOWARD ZINN: I don't know. I'm a historian. Historians don't know what's going to happen. They guess like everybody else. I think-- we'll probably go to war. I'm not sure. I hold out-- always hold out a hope that-- the President will look around and think there's not enough enthusiasm in the country for the war. And maybe when they see the casualties, even a small number of casualties-- maybe my-- and then this is the way he'll think about it. Maybe my political fortunes will decline instead of rise. Maybe I'll be blamed instead of praised. I'd like to think that that's a possibility. But I think it's only a possibility. But you act on the basis-- not of probabilities, but of possibilities. If you act against war, even if you think that probably we'll go to war, because you know that in the past, there have been times when something only seemed possible and yet it came to pass. 



Books by Howard Zinn

TERRORISM AND WAR - Seven Stories Press (2002) (Anthony Arnove, editor)
A PEOPLE'S HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES: 1492-PRESENT - HarperTrade (Revised 2001)
A PEOPLE'S HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION: HOW COMMON PEOPLE SHAPED THE FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE - New Press (2001)
YOU CAN'T BE NEUTRAL ON A MOVING TRAIN: A PERSONAL HISTORY OF OUR TIMES - Beacon 
THE HOWARD ZINN READER - Seven Stories Press
ON WAR AND OTHER MEANS AND ENDS - Seven Stories Press
HOWARD ZINN ON HISTORY - Seven Stories Press





 Public Affairs Television. All rights reserved. 
-- 

The concept of god is just a future memory of ourselves.

Barney Funkasaurus



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Bush, Cheney would get tax-cut windfall

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

They love to say that this tax benefits everyone because over 50% of the
people own stocks. More innumeracy.

65% of the benefit goes to 5% of the population, with some 40+% going to the
top 1% of the population.

Of the 50% MOST average people are involved via pension plans 401ks etc,
where there is NO benefit from this reduction.


on 01/12/03 12:35 PM, goldi316 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Now here's a surprise...  NOT!

 Bush, Cheney would get tax-cut windfall
 Reuters, 01.07.03, 6:13 PM ET


 WASHINGTON, Jan 7 (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush and Vice
 President Dick Cheney each stand to reap thousands of dollars in savings
 from Bush's proposal on Tuesday to eliminate taxes on stock dividends.

 Based on income reported in his tax returns for 2001, Bush would have
 saved $16,511 on dividend payments of $43,805 if his new proposal had
 been in effect for the year.

 Cheney, who had dividends of $278,103 in 2001, would have saved
 $104,823.

 The estimated savings were derived by using a tax-savings calculator on
 the Internet site of the Heritage Foundation think-tank
 (www.heritage.org).

 Bush on Tuesday proposed eliminating the tax on stock dividends as part
 of a $674 billion proposal he says is aimed at boosting a lukewarm
 economy.

 Democrats have attacked the plan, which is almost all tax cuts, as a
 giveaway to the rich.

 The White House says 92 million Americans would gain an average tax cut
 this year of $1,083 through Bush's proposals, which would also
 accelerate previously scheduled income tax cuts and boost the child tax
 credit.

 Cheney is to take a turn at pitching the plan in a speech to the U.S.
 Chamber of Commerce on Friday.

 Bush deflected a question on Monday about how he would personally
 benefit from the dividend-tax cut. My money is in a blind trust ... so
 I don't know if I've got any dividends, he told reporters.

 Bush and Cheney also benefited handsomely from the $1.35 trillion tax
 cut passed by Congress in 2001. Cheney saved an estimated $43,000 on a
 tax bill of $1.72 million that year, and Bush saved an estimated $7,205.

 Copyright 2003, Reuters News Service

 http://forbes.com/home/newswire/2003/01/07/rtr840184.html

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 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -


Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and
truth.

Henrik Ibsen





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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Re: [CTRL] CANNIBALISM: Pygmies Being Killed and Eaten in Congo

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] CANNIBALISM: Pygmies Being Killed and Eaten in Congo
-Caveat Lector-




Depends how you kill them, really


on 01/12/03 4:18 PM, Nurev Ind at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


THIS IS A VICIOUS ANTI-SEMITIC LIE being perpetrated by vicious anti-semitic
anti-semites!!!

Pygmie was ALWAYS kosher if taken in small amounts.




Free your mind and your ass will follow.
St George 


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew




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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Burning what's?

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Congrats Willie

The first time I have ever seen this list in complete agreement - I guess
you really must BE an ignorant racist asswipe. Now all of that can be
changed, but unfortunately, you also happen to be to damned stupid to do
anything about it.




on 01/12/03 11:46 PM, Willie Martin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

  Yeah people like you say that the Rockefellers are presbretians also but they
 are jews

--
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my

contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the

spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be

done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable

love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and

ignoble war is;  I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base

an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is

nothing but an act of murder.

 -- Albert Einstein

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Re: [CTRL] Ezekiel 31 Shows There Were People In The Garden Of God Besides Adam And Eve

[thew]

 THAT) for him.



   16). I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall (WHEN BLAH
BLAH BLAH FELL ALL THE VARIOUS RACES AND NATIONS ON EARTH KNEW OF HIS FALL
AND SHOOK WITH FEAR AND SADNESS), when I cast him down to hell (THE GRAVE)
with them that descend into the pit; and all the Blah Blah Blahs of Eden
(BLAH BLAH BLAH), the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water,
shall be comforted (HERE AGAIN BLAH BLAH BLAHS CANNOT BE COMFORTED) in the
neither parts of the earth.



   17). They also went down into hell (THE GRAVE) with him unto them
that be slain with the sword (IN OTHER WORDS EVERYONE WILL DIE AND GO TO THE
GRAVE); and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst
of the heathen (Here we are told that the Blah Blah Blahs of the Garden were
Blah Blah Blah of other races, other than Blah Blah Blah who was a White
Man, like it or not, love it or not).



   18). To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the
Blah Blah Blahs (BLAH BLAH BLAH) of Eden? yet could thou be brought down
with the Blah Blah Blahs (BLAH BLAH BLAH) of Eden unto the nether parts of
the earth; thou could lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that
be slain by the sword. (NOW BLAH BLAH BLAH GOES BACK TO PHARAOH WHOM HE IS
COMPARING BLAH BLAH BLAH AND THE ASSYRIANS WITH) This is Pharaoh and all his
multitude, signified the Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. (Blah Blah Blah 31)







--


Wandering in a vast forest at night, I have only a faint light to guide me.
A stranger appears and says to me: ' My friend, you should blow out your
candle in order to find your way more clearly.' This stranger is a
theologian.



 Diderot
c. 1762



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew



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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

As always innumeracy reigns





on 01/11/03 1:29 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-
\
 I made no claim that equitable was synonymous
 with equal.



And yet every time I take about equitable treatment, you respond with
equal treatment.




 Thew
   We were discussing behaviors of the state - and
   its responsibility.
 MJ
 A LEGITIMATE State is a collective application of
 the individual's right to his own life.  Any other
 'State' merely provides advantage to some at the
 expense of others.

 I am not certain what 'responsibilities' you imagine
 apply, but 



A state is there to provide service to the individuals who are members of
the state. These services cost money.






 Thew
   It is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) that a greater
   burden is placed on those who can least shoulder
   it, while those who can best do so, use their
   resources to ensure they do not have to, while
   the same resources could be used more
   EQUITABLY, especially in the name of some
   fictional SAMENESS (equality), that is really
   just a cover for lack of compassion for the other,
   or the society they are riding atop.
 MJ
 Nonsense.


That is a viewpoint, not a fact. I don't expect you to agree with my
viewpoint, in fact, that¹s what I said the problem was.






 I have no problem with YOU voluntarily providing YOUR
 resources to those YOU deem in need.  I do, however,
 have a problem with YOU *FORCING* me to provide
 MY resources to those YOU deem in need.


Again - if a state is to exist, I can only see it existing to serve its
members. This costs money. Ina  state of and by the people, the only place
for that money to come is from the people who make up the state. This
applies to defense spending, as well as health care, schools, passable
roads, basic infrastructure, etc.



 Of course you need your bifurcation in order to hide
 your lust for enslavement and theft.

Bifurcation? Where? I'm saying it right out. I would prefer there was no
need for a state at all, but unfortunately there are both dangerous assholes
who need to be held in check, and others who suffer who need to be helped.
These are things a state should do. It has to be paid for somehow.



 What is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) is that
 a greater burden is placed on some, while
 others are exempted.  ALL individuals should
 be treated EQUAL(ly) by Government.  This is
 the ONLY method that is EQUITABLE.  After
 all one is supposed to have EQUALITY under
 the law.

 Thew
  Compassion for others is one of the few legitimate
  uses of government I can imagine.
 MJ
 Stealing from some citizens is not compassion.


Unfortunately those who can afford to give without coercion seem to be those
least likely to. I don't know why.






 Thew
   We can do better that coldhearted slavery to the bottom
   line - as a nation, as individuals, and as humanity.
 MJ
 Continuing with your bifurcation ...



Again - where? I state my belief - nothing hidden.



 Thew
Equal is not equitable.

 eq·ui·ta·ble
   Marked by or having equity; just and impartial.
 e·qual
   Having the same quantity, measure, or value
as another.



Not the same thing at all. As you even stated earlier in your post - which
is it, are they the same or different?

The former deal with just which has nothing to do with quantity, it is an
abstract concept. The latter is a concrete term relating to mathematical
amounts. Not the same thing at all.






 MJ
 If Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes, their burden is EQUAL.
 The Government REQUIRING Joe and Steve pay $1
 in taxes is EQUITABLE.

 If Joe pays $1 and Steve pays $2, their burden is UNequal.
 The Government REQUIRING Joe to pay $1 and Steve
 pay $2 in taxes is INequitable.


Here is the innumeracy - always a good bet with the ignorant.


If Joe  earns $10 a year, and steve earns $100 a year, then in your 1st
example joe is paying 10% of his income, while Steve is paying 1% of his
income, and thus their burden is UNequal.

As to equitable - it is about justice and what you consider important, not
strictly about number crunching (reread your own definitions above)

EQUITABLE is a judgment call. To me it seems that if Joe earns $10 a month
and needs $8 to feed his children while steve earns $100 and needs $8 to
feed his children there is NOTHING EQUITABLE about taking the EQUAL amount
from each of them.


Again- in summery. Government's sole purpose is service to the members of
the society it governs. In the world as it stands today service costs money.
The only place for a government of and by the people to get money is from
the people. Not all people can afford the same amount of payment, as their
situations and needs differ. Those who benefit most from a  society, have
the greatest responsibility to the society they are benefiting from. They
have the greatest ability to provide for their society as a whole with
suffering because of it. It would be most JUST (equitable) for those

Re: [CTRL] The Cradle Land - 1

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

One word:


dinosaurs



on 01/10/03 5:00 AM, Willie Martin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


   We find history continually verifying the statements of Scripture, and
 no monument ever dug up, no manuscript that has ever been discovered, has been
 other than an evidence of Bible truth.

-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
He who does not prefer exile to slavery is not free by any measure of
freedom, truth and duty.

   Kahil Gibran, Spirits Rebellious



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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[CTRL] Plug pulled on Sharon TV address

[thew]

 


-- 
-- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.

Abraham Lincoln




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto
-Caveat Lector-





Pru  while I think the Israelis are way overboard, and too far into this right hawkish bad dream right now they at least attempt have targeted attacks

When you blow yourself up in a bus station  that is indiscriminate killing.


on 01/10/03 1:45 PM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/9/2003 12:05:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Because it kills people indiscriminately.
Too bad it doesn't fit your stereotype eh?



What's wrong with that? The Israeli kill Palestinians indiscriminately. Prudy A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om




Free your mind and your ass will follow.
St George 


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew




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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

We were not discussing the WORD equitable, until I had to explain to you
carefully that the word was not synonymous with Equal. (that's why we have 2
different words.)

We were discussing behaviors of the state - and its responsibility.
It is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) that a greater burden is placed on those
who can least shoulder it, while those who can best do so, use their
resources to ensure they do not have to, while the same resources could be
used more EQUITABLY, especially in the name of some fictional SAMENESS
(equality), that is really just a cover for lack of compassion for the
other, or the society they are riding atop.


Compassion for others is one of the few legitimate uses of government I can
imagine.

 We can do better that coldhearted slavery to the bottom line - as a nation,
as individuals, and as humanity.

Equal is not equitable.



on 01/10/03 8:27 PM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 MJ
'Need' -- real or imaginary -- has NOTHING to do with equity.
 Thew
   The sad thing is that you don't see that as the problem.

 MJ
 That a WORD means what it states and not something else?

--
-- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me
to tremble for the safety of my country corporations have been
enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money
power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the
prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and
the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety
of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.

Abraham Lincoln




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] There is No Evolution Here - 3 (Last One)

[thew]

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-- --- -- --  -- --

They that can give up essential liberty for a little safety deserve neither
liberty nor safety.

Ben Franklin




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Re: [CTRL] Israelis, Germans, and Kant

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

on 01/08/03 8:03 PM, flw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Export of human stem cells from Israel to Germany sparks ethical storm
 Two Israeli institutions, Haifa's Technion Israel Institute of Technology
 and Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, began exporting stem cells culled from
 human embryos to Germany this month, arousing a storm of controversy within
 both countries' scientific and medical communities.

snip


on 01/09/03 8:54 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




 Maybe the stem cells are all from Palestinian women and Israeli ethics do not
 come into the picture.  Prudy


Maybe stem cell research is only frowned on by religious fundamental idiots
and is one of the most hopeful new bio technologies, with the potential to
cure Parkinson's, Alzheimer's,  a host of other genetic diseases, replace
lost white blood cells in leukemia and cancer patients, etc, and is
something that should be applauded.


Are you so close-minded Pru ( I know you are not on other topics) that you
cannot say while I dislike Israel's politics, they are leaders in the
medical field internationally, and this stem cell stuff gives us all hope?








Free your mind and your ass will follow.
   St George


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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[CTRL] Turning Up the Heat on Bush

[thew]

 is a huge burden and getting heavier. In FY 2001, when LIHEAP received a total of $2.25 billion (regular plus emergency funds), states were only able to serve 17% of eligible households. The current economic downturn further exacerbates LIHEAP funding shortfalls. Unemployment is on the rise, the U.S. poverty rate increased last year for the first time in eight years, and household income declined in 2001 after remaining flat a year earlier. 

The demand for LIHEAP is on the rise. President Bush has $500 million dollars in emergency LIHEAP funds at his disposal but refuses to release it. $200 million of these funds are leftover from the $300 million Congress appropriated for energy emergencies in FY 2002. $300 million of it has been approved by the Senate and requested by Bush himself for this fiscal year. President Bush has the sole authority to release these funds to low-income consumers. 

FY 2003 appropriations must be finalized by Congress in January, and LIHEAP advocates are urging Congress to provide funding at no less than $1.7 billion, plus the $300 million in emergency appropriations. The President has proposed cutting funding to $1.4 billion (plus $300 million in emergency funds) for FY 2003. In FY 2002, Congress appropriated $1.7 billion (plus $300 million in emergency funds) for LIHEAP. The Bush Administration's proposed cuts in LIHEAP funding would mean that approximately 500,000 fewer low-income families would receive assistance. And according to the Energy Information Administration, last year's $1.7 billion regular LIHEAP budget would have to be increased by $345 million this year just for the program to provide assistance to the same number of households as last year. 

The 108th Congress will complete FY 2003 appropriations when it convenes this month. In the event that Congress cuts LIHEAP funding, states are considering several actions to implement the Administration's proposal, including reducing eligibility ceilings, cutting benefits, and limiting program sign-up periods. In other words: a lot more people will be a lot colder this winter. 

This needn't be. The president could promote LIHEAP funding as a payoff to fuel companies if it makes him feel better about doing something that actually helps people, but he needs to release this money or people are going to freeze. 


David Swanson is communications coordinator for ACORN 

 

 Democratic Underground, LLC

 

-- 
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.
Sir Winston Churchill 




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] A Spot of Tea

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] A Spot of Tea
-Caveat Lector-






Ive been on a real tea kick lately

There are 5 basic types of tea: black, green, oolong, white, and puh-ehr  the latter two being far less well known  white is very unprocessed, even less than green, while puh erh is the opposite end of the spectrum, fermented and often pressed.

Each has its own best brewing methods and timings, flavors, style, and place.

Like wines (and ganja) there is a spectrum of types and varieties, each with its own subtlety worth appreciating.






on 01/09/03 10:15 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- Lovely--takes one back. Prudy A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- -- --  -- --
Planet spins - so do I
neo-sufi wisdom



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew




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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] CANNIBALISM: Pygmies Being Killed and Eaten in Congo

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

But they are so small and tender .



on 01/09/03 9:10 PM, flw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Congo rebels are eating pygmies, UN says

 James Astill in Nairobi
 Thursday January 9, 2003
 The Guardian

 Marauding rebels are massacring and eating pygmies in the dense forests of
 north-east Congo, according to UN officials who are investigating
 allegations of cannibalism in Ituri province, where fighting between several
 rebel groups has displaced about 150,000 people in the past month.
 Many of the displaced tell of rebel fighters capturing and butchering
 pygmies, Manoddje Mounoubai, spokesman for the UN ceasefire monitoring
 mission in Congo, said yesterday.

 The UN had sent six officials to investigate the accusation as well as other
 human rights abuses, he said.

 Other UN officials in the capital, Kinshasa, and the eastern city of Goma
 said that widespread cannibalism had already been established.

 Ituri is completely out of control and cannibalism is just the latest
 atrocity taking place, said one, who asked not to be named until the
 investigators deliver their report. Perhaps this will finally alert the
 world to what's going on.

 Ituri's forest-dwelling pygmy tribes have been caught be tween opposing
 groups supporting the government and Ugandan-backed rebel groups in the last
 battles of Congo's four-year civil war.

 The two Ugandan-backed movements routinely enslave pygmies to forage for
 forest food and prospect for minerals, a UN official said.

 Hunters returning empty-handed were killed and eaten.

 Sudi Alimasi, an official of the pro-government group Rally for Congolese
 Democracy-ML, said it had begun receiving reports of cannibalism from people
 displaced by fighting more than a week ago.

 We hear reports of [enemy] commanders feeding on sexual organs of pygmies,
 apparently believing this would give them strength, he said.

 We also have reports of pygmies being forced to feed on the cooked remains
 of their colleagues.

 Cannibalism has re-emerged throughout eastern Congo as the last vestiges of
 colonial influence have been eroded during the war. Much of the vast
 forested area is controlled by the Mayi-Mayi, a loose grouping of tribal
 militias united by their magical beliefs and taste for human flesh.

 On a recent assignment in eastern Congo the Guardian correspondent saw many
 Mayi-Mayi fighters wearing parts of the bodies of their Rwandan enemies, in
 the belief that this would make them invincible.

 We are hearing reports of untold horrors in Ituri, said Wyger Wentholt, of
 Médecins sans Frontières.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
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-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when
the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally
alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest
dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal,
well-meaning but without understanding.
Justice Louis D. Brandeis





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts

Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto
-Caveat Lector-





Pru -

I dont love the fence idea, but it is not a prison fence - it is a border. If and when there is a Palestinian state, there will be a border between the countries, no? And it WILL be a heavily defended border - , wire and all, I am sure both sides will insist on that, no?





on 01/08/03 9:09 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/8/2003 8:42:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

PLEASE stop whining. Just stop paying your taxes, and you will solve the problem.


Oh no, I love contributing to your causes. Walls and razor wire--yum. Why no mine fields? Prudy A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- -  --- - --- ---
Complete liberty of contradicting our opinion is the very condition which justifies us in assuming its truth.

John Stuart Mill




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who
earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan that
at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one that
barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top.

The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because 50% of
Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic. For the
person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great break. For the person
who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help then at all. If you crunch the
numbers over 90% of the benefit of this goes to under 10% of the population
- the ten percent that least needs the help.




on 01/08/03 3:17 AM, Willie Martin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

   This tax plan will help the rich is the propaganda bs that the Democratic
 Party has put
 out for years and plays on peoples dislike for wealthy people. While I have no
 great love
 for them myself, I am not so stupid as to believe that the working man would
 have a job if
 the companies did not make a profet. They have to make one to say in business.
 And if they
 stay in business they will have jobs for people. Some at good pay some of the
 pay is not so
 good but it is better to have a job at low pay than no job at all.

   Of course any tax plan will help the so-called rich more than the person who
 lives on a
 $15,000 or $20,000 or less because they don't make as much money. I don't like
 George Bush
 because I believe him to be a traitor or worse. But the fact of the matter is
 the flight of
 business out of the country has put millions out of work and many of them are
 still out of
 work. Some of the business fled because they wanted to stay in business others
 wanted out
 because of their corporate greed, not the compeny itslef but the people
 running the company,
 who were and are the greedy SOBs.

   Nevertheless someone has to pay the people to work and as a result that
 person has to
 have more money than the person doing the work.



--  - --- -- ---
--
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it
is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be
left to irresponsible action.


George Washington


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] There is No Evolution Here - 2

[thew]

.
 The two uprights were encrusted with white shell and lapis lazuli and red
 stone arranged in zones separated with wide gold bands. Shell plaques engraved
 with animal scenes adorned the front. Above these projected a splendid head of
 a bearded bull wrought in heavy gold, with a lapis lazuli beard.

   Queen Shubad, on her deathbed, wore an ornate headdress of a long gold
 hair ribbon covered by beaded wreaths with gold pendants. She also wore heavy
 gold earrings and a golden Spanish type comb with five points ending in lapis
 centered flowers of gold. By the side of the body lay a second headdress. On a
 diadem, made of soft white leather, had been sewn thousands of minute lapis
 lazuli beads. Against this background of solid blue, were set a row of
 exquisitely fashioned gold animals, stags, gazelles, bulls and goats. Between
 them there were clusters of pomegranates, three fruits hanging together
 shielded by their leaves. There was a helmet of beaten gold made to fit low
 over the head with cheek pieces to protect the face. It was in the form of a
 wig, the locks of hair hammered in relief, the individual hairs shown by
 delicate lines. The ears were rendered in high relief and are pierced so as
 not to interfere with hearing.








Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT
 mean to stand by the President or any other public official
 save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the
 country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently
 serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the
 exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his
 duty to stand by the country. (Theodore Roosevelt)





 False propaganda, to be truly effective, Has to exist
 in an environment in which there are no alternatives
 to contradict it.  Otherwise, it can be seen for the lie
 that it is.




There are three kinds of people in America:

 1). Those that know what is going on;

 2). Those that think they know what is going on; and

 3). Those that don't have a clue as to what is going on.

5% of the people think. 10% of the people think they think.
 The rest would rather die than think.

   How long would it take a blind giant, hammering upon an
 anvil, to produce a watch? That's how long it would take the
 evolutionists to explain their stupid theory.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
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 Om

-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when
the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally
alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest
dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal,
well-meaning but without understanding.
Justice Louis D. Brandeis





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives

Re: [CTRL] Community morality

[thew]

 and still survive as a member of a political community?

 You say that individuals can think what they wish.  Can they act on what
 they believe or are they only allowed to think what they wish?  Read
 Gene Veith's book, Modern Fascism.  Modern Fascism is not what you think
 it is.

--
All the thoughts of a turtle are turtle

  Emerson, Journals, 1855







NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Retired Aide to Mao Calls for Progress to Democracy

[thew]

Title: Retired Aide to Mao Calls for Progress to Democracy
-Caveat Lector-






January 8, 2003

Retired Aide to Mao Calls for Progress to Democracy
By CHRIS BUCKLEY

BEIJING, Jan. 7  A former secretary to Mao has published a strikingly forthright call for change in a Beijing magazine this month, the latest sign of growing demands for open discussion of political reform.

The retired official, Li Rui, 85, warned in a speech published in the magazine China Chronicle that the country must embrace democratic politics and free speech to avoid stagnation and possible collapse. 

Only with democratization can there be modernization, he said. This has been a global tide since the 20th century, especially the Second World War, and those who join it will prosper while those who resist will perish.

Mr. Li, a Communist Party member since 1937, is a longtime advocate of faster political liberalization. He has been held at arm's length by party leaders, but his status as a confidant of Mao and a pugnacious critic of conservatives inside the party have given him a degree of protection from censorship, and a large readership.

China Chronicle is a popular history magazine published by a cultural research institute run by retired officials, and is widely read in the party. Mr. Li's call to action comes at a sensitive time when many officials and academics here are waiting to see if China's new leaders, installed at a party congress in November, will consider relaxing one-party rule.

Mr. Li made his comments in a speech to a group of delegates at the congress. He warned that China's stability could be imperiled by delaying political change.

In recent official announcements, Communist Party leaders have said the party must strengthen internal debate and make selection of officials more competitive. But they have not shown any signs of contemplating wider changes.

Mr. Li challenged them to lead the way with major reforms starting at the top.

He proposed formally limiting the party's leaders to a maximum tenure of 10 years. He also proposed wide-ranging measures to limit the party's powers, begin introducing popular election of government officials and protect freedom of speech and independent rule of law.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Permissions | Privacy Policy 

-- --- - 
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it


Elwood P Dowd 



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

on 01/08/03 10:27 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thew
   Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who
   earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan
   that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one
   that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top.
 MJ
 Why?
 Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY?
 Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another?



Because EQUAL is not the same as EQUITABLE. A family that struggles to feed
and clothe its children has more need for tax relief than someone with 3
billion dollars in the bank. Because a person with 3 billion dollars can
afford to support the country s/he is living in to a greater extent and not
suffer, than the person who has to choose between chicken for dinner or
shoes for their children.






 Thew
   The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because
   50% of Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic.
   For the person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great
   break. For the person who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help
   then at all. If you crunch the numbers over 90% of the benefit of this
   goes to under 10% of the population - the ten percent that least needs
   the help.
 MJ
 sigh
 Many Americans -- perhaps MORE than 50% -- have retirement
 instruments that fall under this DOUBLE TAXATION stock problem.


Yes. Most of them are affected to the tune of a few cents over a year. The
bulk of the benefit is not to them.






Free your mind and your ass will follow.
   St George


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector-





Just because Marx wrote it doesnt mean it doesnt make sense.

Thinking society can be more equitable does not make one a communist.


on 01/08/03 11:12 AM, Jim Rarey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 
Our tax code is based on From each according to his ability. When it comes tax reductions, some seem to be saying to each according to his need.

When you combine the two, From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. you have a very familiar phrase. Now where have I heard that before? Oh yes, it is in the Communist Manifesto.

JR

- Original Message - 
From: M.A. Johnson mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

-Caveat Lector-

Thew
Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who
earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan
that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one
that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top.
MJ
Why?
Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY?
Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another?


Thew
The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because
50% of Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic.
For the person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great
break. For the person who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help
then at all. If you crunch the numbers over 90% of the benefit of this
goes to under 10% of the population - the ten percent that least needs
the help.
MJ
sigh
Many Americans -- perhaps MORE than 50% -- have retirement
instruments that fall under this DOUBLE TAXATION stock problem.

Regard$,
--MJ

I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and
yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish
to ease his lot by all possible means -- except by getting off his
back. -- Leo Tolstoy

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-- -- --  -- --
Planet spins - so do I
neo-sufi wisdom



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew




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Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto
-Caveat Lector-



on 01/08/03 11:33 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


There will never be a Palestinian state, but if such a thing were to happen, I think the borders would be remarkably friendly. 



Eventually  I agree  economics will always win out over ideology in the long run. But initially there will be a great deal of distrust I fear



Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
William of Occam


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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-
(B
(BThe words you missed were EQUAL and EQUALITY (One is having the other)
(B
(BWe were comparing EQUAL with EQUITABLE, not EQUITY with EQUITABILITY
(B
(Bhere:
(B
(BSYLLABICATION:
(Be $B! (Jqual
(BPRONUNCIATION:
(B?kw?l
(BADJECTIVE:
(B1. Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2. Mathematics
(BBeing the same or identical to in value.
(B
(BI repeat EQUAL , i.e. same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e.,
(Bbeing just or fair.
(B
(B
(BHmmm indeed.
(B
(B
(B
(B
(Bon 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(B
(B
(B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jty
(B   The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair.
(B   Something that is just, impartial, and fair.
(B
(B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jta $B! (Jble
(B   Marked by or having equity; just and impartial.
(B
(B One is HAVING the other.  Oh well.
(B
(B-- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - -
(B--  -- - -- -
(BWe must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that
(Baccusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due
(Bprocess of law.
(B
(B
(BEdward R. Murrow
(B
(B
(B
(B
(B
(B
(BNEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
(B
(BA HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
(BDECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
(B==
(BCTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
(Bscreeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
(Bsordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
(Bdirections and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
(Bmajor and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
(BThat being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
(Balways suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
(Bcredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
(B
(BLet us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
(B
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(B
(BOm

Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

You mean all people in all situations have the same needs at the same times?

What a load of crock. And by crock , I mean rank horseshit.

All people do not need the same thing, so there is nothing EQUITABLE about
treating everybody in the exact same manner.


on 01/08/03 11:28 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Thew
   Thinking society can be more equitable does not make one a communist.
 MJ
 There is NOTHING 'equitable' about treating people
 differently.

 Regard$,
 --MJ

 From the fact that people are very different it follows that, if
 we treat them equally, the result must be inequality in their actual
 position, and that the only way to place them in an equal position
 would be to treat them differently.  Equality before the law and
 material equality are therefore not only different but are in
 conflict which each other; and we can achieve either one or the
 other, but not both at the same time.  -- F.A. Hayek

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
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--
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

What do you mean ³we², white man?
Tonto




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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-
(B
(BThe words you missed were EQUAL and EQUALITY (One is having the other)
(B
(BWe were comparing EQUAL with EQUITABLE, not EQUITY with EQUITABILITY
(B
(Bhere:
(B
(BSYLLABICATION:
(Be $B! (Jqual
(BPRONUNCIATION:
(B
(B
(BADJECTIVE:
(B1. Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2. Mathematics
(BBeing the same or identical to in value.
(B
(BI repeat EQUAL , i.e. same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e.,
(Bbeing just or fair.
(B
(B
(BHmmm indeed.
(B
(B
(B
(B
(Bon 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(B
(B
(B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jty
(B   The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair.
(B   Something that is just, impartial, and fair.
(B
(B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jta $B! (Jble
(B   Marked by or having equity; just and impartial.
(B
(B One is HAVING the other.  Oh well.
(B
(B-- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - -
(B--  -- - -- -
(BWe must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that
(Baccusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due
(Bprocess of law.
(B
(B
(BEdward R. Murrow
(B
(B
(B
(B
(B
(B
(BNEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
(B
(BA HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
(BDECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
(B==
(BCTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
(Bscreeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
(Bsordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
(Bdirections and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
(Bmajor and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
(BThat being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
(Balways suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
(Bcredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
(B
(BLet us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
(B
(BArchives Available at:
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(B A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of
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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector-





The words you missed were EQUAL and EQUALITY (One is having the other) 

We were comparing EQUAL with EQUITABLE, not EQUITY with EQUITABILITY

here:



ADJECTIVE:
1. Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2. Mathematics Being the same or identical to in value. 

I repeat EQUAL , i.e. same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e., being just or fair.


Hmmm indeed.




on 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 eq$B!&(Jui$B!&(Jty
 The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair.
 Something that is just, impartial, and fair.
 
 eq$B!&(Jui$B!&(Jta$B!&(Jble
 Marked by or having equity; just and impartial.
 
 One is HAVING the other. Oh well.

-- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. 

Edward R. Murrow






NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

SORRY ABOUT THOSE POSTS _ bad cut and paste I suspect

Trying again -

We were not comparing EQUITABLE with EQUITY - which are obviously the same.

We were comparing Equitable with EQUAL (the related word being equality, not
equitability)

EQUAL:


ADJECTIVE:
1: Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2: MATHEMATICS;
Being the same or identical to in value.


I repeat EQUAL, i.e.. Same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e.
being just or fair.


Hmmm indeed.


Oh well.

on 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 MJ
Why?
Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY?
Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another?
 Thew
   Because EQUAL is not the same as EQUITABLE.
 MJ
 Hmmm ...

 eq·ui·ty
   The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair.
   Something that is just, impartial, and fair.

 eq·ui·ta·ble
   Marked by or having equity; just and impartial.

 One is HAVING the other.  Oh well.

--

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

The sad thing is that you don't see that as the problem.


on 01/08/03 3:46 PM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 MJ
 'Need' -- real or imaginary -- has NOTHING to do with equity.

--  - --- -- ---
--
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it
is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be
left to irresponsible action.


George Washington


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Community morality

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Jewish is just one of many influences that shaped who I am, but it did not
DETERMINE anything. It's a small piece in the puzzle.

Funny, it seemed more like chastisement to me than a shout out to others.

My thoughts on morality have hardly been dipped into here, for they really
were not the point.

I made a joke you found distasteful. You told me that joke shamed the jewish
community. Whatever.

It's a funny joke. Still makes me laugh.

Get over it.


on 01/08/03 11:01 PM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Thew, several points.
 You identify yourself continuously as someone who is Jewish as if that
 determines your views.  I don't see you consistently singularly
 associating your views to gender, profession, locality, family type,
 age, wealth, political choice, religious connection or any other marker.
 If you did, I'm sure there would be others who would correctly point out
 that your views aren't the views of everyone in that group, particularly
 if your remarks are nasty and insulting toward others outside of that
 group.

 It's obvious your thoughts about morality aren't very thought out and
 are rather simplistic and self-serving.  (Compassion...I'd rather not
 start listing what can be done to others in the name of compassion.)  I
 just wanted to point out to others that that this is so not because you
 a Jewish spokesman, but because you are just someone who is entitled to
 voice any kind of opinion on a site like this.

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
 Behalf Of thew
 Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:53 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Community morality

 -Caveat Lector-

 This post is slightly different than the one you sent me on SAT , no?
 Unfortunately I accidentally deleted that puppy - I think it was more
 cogent.


 I don't think I mentioned anything about sexual morality - so I'm not
 sure
 what your disclaimer is about.


 I think just be a good human being would be an excellent law - too bad
 it
 has never been tried. Maybe there are too few good human beings.

 God? Cosmic consciousness? My beliefs are certainly not based on either
 of
 those problematic concepts.


 In your original post you implied that My view was that any belief
 system is
 valid, and that I would allow anyone any action because I accepted all
 beliefs as equal. I don't think that is what I said.

 What I said was that a person who acts correctly because of external
 pressure to act that way is not behaving Morally. Moral behavior is when
 you
 act correctly because you believe it is the right way to act.


 People can think what they like. That is freedom. Does that mean
 anything
 they think is moral? No. never said that. Does that mean any act is
 permissible? Nope - never said that either.

 Did I deny community? Nope - I just said that I define my community
 rather
 more broadly than you define yours.

 I was very explicit about what I think is moral - I did not say that
 everyone's morality was equally correct.

 Let me repeat: I stand for freedom of thought and action, guided by
 compassion.

 You focused on the 1st half of that, and ignored the compassion part.
 Typical really.

 Now lets rein this in a bit and get back to the discussion - I made a
 joke -
 a tasteless joke, especially in the context - but a joke none the less.
 You
 told me my joke was not serving the Jewish community. My joke was not
 made
 by, for, or in behalf of the Jewish community, as I am not the Jewish
 community. I am a person, perhaps with an inappropriate sense of humor.

 You then told me you have no sense of humor when it comes to the Jewish
 community. I tell you - you have not learned the behavior patterns or
 survival skills of the community you claim to typify. The Jewish
 response
 has ALWAYS been humor - it is our greatest strength - the ability to
 disarm
 tragedy through humor.
 If anyone is not true to the ideals of the so-called Jewish community
 then,
 it is you not I.


 Because I defended humor, you asked me where I stood about morality -
 And told me I was outside the morality of the Jewish community. I agreed
 -
 that is not the community that I primarily define myself by.

 I am not sure where you get from that the idea that I think all morals
 are
 equal, all communities equally legitimate ,and all actions acceptable. I
 just think that basing morality on fairy tales and bloodlines is
 ridiculous
 at best, and more often dangerous than not.





 on 01/08/03 1:31 AM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I reached my posting limit on Sunday, so I could not reply to you
 then.
 Here is the response to your comments which appear after mine.

 Let me say here when I talk of morality, I am not just talking about
 sexual morality.  I am talking about all interactions between
 individuals, individuals as community members and those actions which
 link an individual's life to a plan that seems

Re: [CTRL] WHAT DOES SUPREMACY REALLY MEAN? - 1

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

It just doesn't fit.

Our skin is probably about the same color, but you are not a person like
myself


I wonder if you actually qualify as a person at all, but that is another
story.

Give him the gom jabbar

Or maybe just shoot his racist ass.


on 01/06/03 4:45 AM, Willie Martin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Most White people don't fit either definition, though they do prefer the
 company of people like themselves, as any honest person would admit to

--
To Bigotry No Sanction,
to Persecution No Assistance

George Washington









NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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Re: [CTRL] What Does Supremacy Really Mean? - 2

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

on 01/06/03 5:17 AM, Willie Martin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   How long would it take a blind giant, hammering upon an
 anvil, to produce a watch? That's how long it would take the
 evolutionists to explain their stupid theory.



Luckily we have had the billions of years necessary to make it work.

And yet you seem to a powerful argument that the process is not flawless.



-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
He who does not prefer exile to slavery is not free by any measure of
freedom, truth and duty.

   Kahil Gibran, Spirits Rebellious



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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[CTRL] Bush: If you help the wealthy, everyone will be better off.

[thew]

/01/06/economic.stimulus/index.html 



-- 

To be nobody but yourself, in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle that any human being can fight--and never stop fighting.

- e.e. cummings









NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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Re: [CTRL] Reinstate the Draft

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Exactly


Any country worth defending will attract people to its defense. If no one
shows up to fight a war, maybe it is a war not worth fighting


on 01/06/03 10:34 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 AMENDMENT XIII
 Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as
 a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have
 been duly convicted, shall exist within the United
 States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

 Regard$,
 --MJ

 Where is it written in the Constitution, in what section or clause
 is it contained, that you may take children from their parents and
 parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battle
 in any war in which the folly or the wickedness of government may
 engage it? -- Daniel Webster

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-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
He who does not prefer exile to slavery is not free by any measure of
freedom, truth and duty.

   Kahil Gibran, Spirits Rebellious



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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Re: [CTRL] Trouble For Conservative Agenda

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Lets not forget his lovely addition to the US patriot act -
The essential clause against terrorism
-not allowing parents to sue pharmaceutical companies for harming their
children


on 01/06/03 10:29 PM, iNFoWaRZ at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 New Senate Leader Spells Trouble For Conservative Agenda

 What should conservatives expect now that Senator Bill Frist has officially
 become the new Senate Majority Leader? Here is a summary of Frist's record on
 a variety of key issues.

-- - - - -- - - -- - --  -- - - --  --  - -



It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.


William G. McAdoo







NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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Re: [CTRL] Footprints of Israel - 19

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Jews fought at died and paid for our freedom at valley forge.

Also in the civil war, WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam.

Bigotry and racism are NOT the American way.

Take this crap to some totalitarian state where it belongs.
(of course if we wait another 15 minutes, while this sort of crap spreads,
we will be in a totalitarian state without moving a muscle)



on 01/05/03 6:26 AM, Willie Martin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   This is a Christian Nation. If they wish to live as Jews, then let them
 abide by our laws, not try and destroy them and set up their own filthy
 standards.

   When this is shown beyond a shadow of a doubt, then it lies within our
 rights, to defend our Christian way of life, our faith, our race, our country
 and our freedom, with any means that is at hand. If this means evicting the
 Jews from America, as has happened to them before, then that means will be
 taken. But through God's help, we will defend our faith, our race, and our
 freedom against this godless enemy and we will consider their Christian
 stooges in America as our enemy too.

   WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER! Our freedom was not bought and paid for at
 Valley Forge, that was only the down payment on freedom. Every generation
 must be willing to make payment on this account, if they are to remain free.

--
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

Calling a rationalist an a-theist is like a soccer player accusing a
baseball player of not having any goal posts.





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
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==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Nuns as sexual victims get little notice

[thew]

 to contact member orders, took no
 action following the study.

 The current executive director says she does not believe the
 conference distributed the survey results or sought any policy
 changes.

 The director, Carole Shinnick, said it is not within LCWR's mission
 to directly respond to the needs of women who were victimized. It is
 the responsibility of their own congregations.

 Shinnick, a therapist who worked almost exclusively with Catholic
 nuns for 12 years, said she knows firsthand the care given to
 abused nuns.

 My experience of LCWR congregations in responding to their
 members is that they are pastoral, generous and patient with the
 recovering person, Shinnick said.

 Sister Mary Ann Walsh, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of
 Catholic Bishops, said the group was not aware of the nun survey
 and had not addressed the issue. That group, headed by Bishop
 Wilton Gregory of Belleville, has taken a leading role in the debate
 over new policies in the wake of the priest sex abuse scandal.

 Researcher Wolf, who now works in Catholic education, said few
 nuns have come forth publicly to talk about their experiences. She
 said that is no surprise. Many may feel shame or guilt and recognize
 they could have a lot to lose if they come forward.

 These women have to ask themselves what are the benefits and
 what are the costs, she said. The church is the only corporation in
 town.

 Reporter Bill Smith:
 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Phone: 314-340-8125

 --

 Outgoing mail is certified virus free
 Scanned by Norton AntiVirus

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 ==
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 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
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 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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It is not the function of our government to keep the
citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
to keep the government from falling into error.

 Justice Robert H. Jackson




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Nuns as sexual victims get little notice

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Funny - I feel the same way quite often when you post - like last week's
the Jews will do whatever they want comment.

More to the point - It's a joke son - you missed it.


on 01/05/03 11:02 AM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Thew, you sometimes respond like a very clever 17 year old who thinks he
 has the entire picture when no one else has seen what is going on.  You
 do the Jewish community no service with your ignorant comments.  Think
 before you write.

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
 Behalf Of thew
 Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:54 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Nuns as sexual victims get little notice

 -Caveat Lector-

 What's the best way to get a nun pregnant?






 Dress her as an altar boy.



 on 01/05/03 10:42 AM, klewis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 http://stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/263AD85EB409B
 D2786256CA40076DBA4?OpenDocumentHeadline=Nuns+as+sex
 ual+victims+get+little+notice


 Nuns as sexual victims get little notice
 By Bill Smith
 Of the Post-Dispatch
 01/04/2003 02:40 PM

 Already shaken by a yearlong sex abuse scandal involving priests
 and minors, the Roman Catholic Church has yet to face another
 critical challenge - how to help thousands of nuns who say they
 have been sexually victimized.

 A national survey, completed in 1996 but intentionally never
 publicized, estimates that a minimum of 34,000 Catholic nuns, or
 about 40 percent of all nuns in the United States, have suffered
 some form of sexual trauma.

 Some of that sexual abuse, exploitation or harassment has come at
 the hands of priests and other nuns in the church, the report said.
 The survey was conducted by researchers at St. Louis University
 and was paid for, in part, by several orders of Catholic nuns.

 The study, recently obtained by the Post-Dispatch, indicates that the
 victimization often has had devastating psychological effects on the
 women. Many of the nuns said they were left with feelings of anger,
 shame, anxiety and depression. Some said it made them consider
 leaving religious life, and a few said they had attempted suicide.

 These women have been the stalwarts of the church for centuries,
 and a significant percentage of them have been victimized as a
 result of the structure of the very institution to which they have
 dedicated their lives, said study co-author John T. Chibnall, a
 research psychologist and associate professor at St. Louis
 University.

 Another of the researchers, Ann Wolf, said she believes it is vital
 that the Catholic Church recognize the problem.

 The bishops appear to be only looking at the issue of child sexual
 abuse, but the problem is bigger than that, Wolf said. Catholic
 sisters are being violated, in their ministries, at work, in pastoral
 counseling.

 A spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said
 the group was unaware of the St. Louis University study on nuns
 and its members have not addressed the issue. Officials with local
 orders of nuns who participated in the study say they remain
 concerned but have made no changes as a result of the report.

 The survey is the only national scientific study dealing with the
 sexual victimization of nuns in the Catholic Church, according to its
 researchers. Despite the scope of its findings several years ago, no
 further studies have been done, they say.

 The survey also solicited comments - many of them poignant - from
 the nuns who were questioned.

 Of the more than 1,100 surveys returned to the university, several
 included brief, personal stories from women who said they had been
 targeted. One woman wrote that after a priest fondled one of her
 breasts during confession, she remained so upset that she did not
 return to confession for the next 18 years.

 Another wrote that as a young girl, her uncle, who also was a priest,
 insisted on touching holy oil to her genital area to keep me safe
 while dating. Later, her superiors forced her to attend religious
 retreats with the same uncle, she said.

 Still another wrote that a priest-therapist treating her for severe
 depression encouraged her to become involved in sexual
 experimentation. The woman said she later began a relationship
 with another nun.

 Several of the women said such research was long overdue.
 Thanks for taking the time to admit there is a problem in this area,
 wrote one. Best wishes. God bless.

 Study is kept quiet
 Findings of the study were published in two religious research
 journals in the spring and winter of 1998 but have never been
 reported by the mainstream press.

 Review for Religious, published at St. Louis University, printed a
 summary of the survey results in its May-June 1998 issue. Review
 of Religious Research, an academic journal published by the
 Religious Research Association, printed the full results in December
 of that year.

 Both

Re: [CTRL] Nuns as sexual victims get little notice

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Guess what

I AM anti-religion.

Get a grip.


BTW - laughter - the ability to find humor, even in the darkest of days is
the highest of human virtues.

Embrace the cosmic goof.

on 01/05/03 11:40 AM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Thew,
 This is not the time to joke.  Unless you have been out of the
 country, you should know that the Jews are being pitted against the
 Christians and the Christians against the Jews at many levels.  Every
 joke adds to the problem. The New Agers will pick up the banner of
 People Who Love Each Other.  Both Jews and Christians who refuse to
 compromise their moral beliefs are being demonized, even if these
 beliefs are not being pushed in the political arena.  The key word is
 moral here.  In the New Age agenda, that which causes separation is
 considered evil.  Where will you draw the line as to which moral beliefs
 you are willing to compromise?  Don't look to the Christians. Find out
 what the moral beliefs of New Agers are and ask yourself if that is
 where you want to go, because New Age is against Jews and Christians.
 Your messages say you are anti-religion.  Are you pro-New Age thinking?

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
 Behalf Of thew
 Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:08 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Nuns as sexual victims get little notice

 -Caveat Lector-

 Funny - I feel the same way quite often when you post - like last week's
 the Jews will do whatever they want comment.

 More to the point - It's a joke son - you missed it.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
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 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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- -- --- -

You should view the world as a conspiracy run by a very closely-knit group
of nearly omnipotent people, and you should think of those people as
yourself and your friends.

--Robert Anton Wilson







NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Nuns as sexual victims get little notice

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

That inability to separate Jews, the ethnicity, from Judaism, the religion,
is what will kill us off in the long run. It is the inability  , of both
Jews and non-Jews to distinguish between the 2 that has been the greatest
cause of harm, through misunderstanding, to Jews world-wide.

Morality is only morality when it comes from within, not because it is
mandated by some external threat, whether that threat is the punishment by
god or man.

I have a very strong sense of morality, a sense of outrage at the
mistreatment of humans at the hands of other humans. A sense of outrage
informed by the mores of Jewish culture.

I stand for freedom of thought and action, guided by compassion.

The big questions (all of which really boil down to one question - what does
it mean to be a human?) need to be answered, and sticking to 1 year old
metaphors holds back the entire species from moving on and seeking newer,
better, and more complete answers. It is time to shed the fairy tales of
childhood, and move on.

Quite frankly your initial sentence is extremely Un-Jewish. The Jewish
response to tragedy and oppression has always been humor. (dear god - for
just a little while can't you choose some one else)


Can you define this new age phrase for me? I can't quite get a handle on
what you mean, and thus cannot respond to it. If by new age you mean
unfettered by ancient metaphors that no longer jibe with our understanding
of how the universe works - I am all for it. If you just mean substituting
the majority culture's nonsense with other nonsense, leave me out of it.







on 01/05/03 12:16 PM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 I don't find laughter where the future of Jews and Judaism are
 concerned.  I know you are anti-religion; that is obvious.  Where do you
 stand with regard to morality? Since you are presenting yourself as a
 defender of Jews and since Judaism and Jews cannot be separated, what do
 you stand for, not just what you stand against?  I ask the same of
 Christians who read this:  What do you stand for and not just what you
 stand against?  New Age thinking has infiltrated Jewish and Christian
 thinking on organizational and individual levels.  Christians attack New
 Age thinking in Judaism.  Jews attack New Age thinking in Christianity.
 Very few know what New Age thinking is.  Do we have to wait 30 years
 before academics look back to see what is occurring now?


-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -


Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and
truth.

Henrik Ibsen





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Nuns as sexual victims get little notice

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Do you not see your own contradiction here?

Here let me make it explicit:

 Morality is the basis of community.

And

 New Age morality is based on the idea of what is good for the community
 rather than on respect for the individual


My community is somewhat larger than yours I guess - it is not limited by
ethnicity or creed. It is not the community of secular Judaism, nor the
community of Judaism. It is the community of humanity.

My response to another is not based on a  need to know what they believe
in - my response is based on what I believe in REGARDLESS of their beliefs.

While I don't think it is particularly healthy for the species for either
fundamentalist Judaism or Christianity to continue, I will fight to the
death the right of individuals to HOLD those beliefs. Your mind is your own.

As I understand what it means to be a good Jew  is to repair the shattered
unity of the universe, or in less esoteric terms, to behave in a manner that
increases the overall good and weal of the universe and the individuals in
it.

Behavior not belief defines a good Jew. It also defines a good human being.


As to depending on the morality of others - well that will always fall short
on depending on the morality of one's self.


The key question is how to balance the need for the good of the community
against the need to enhance the freedom of the individual. It is a difficult
line to walk, especially because it is shifting constantly. Not only
constantly, but at an ever increasing rate. That is why we cannot rely
solely on some 5000 year old book and 1 year old metaphors to define
what is or is not moral.





on 01/05/03 1:29 PM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You state the inability to separate Jews from religious Judaism will
 kill us off.  You say that morality comes from within.  Then if morality
 comes from within, one cannot depend on what the morality of any
 individual is.  This is the basis of anti-Semitism, where the morality
 of Jews is categorized as evil.  The theory is the predominant idea.
 What Thew's view of morality are is just a blip.  What antisemites say
 is the morality of 99.9% of the Jews is will hold in the face of what
 you say your personal morality is.  In opposition I say that the Jews
 hold to the morality of Judaism and that you are outside of the
 definition of the morality of the community.  I see no written idea of
 what you think is the morality of the secular Jewish community.
 Morality is the basis of community.  When we look to our fellow man, we
 need to know what they believe in for our response.  Granted that not
 everyone who professes to a morality follows it.

 New Age morality is based on the idea of what is good for the community
 rather than on respect for the individual.  Jews were killed off during
 the Holocaust because of what the Nazis believed was the good of the
 larger community.  The entire abortion, euthanasia, ecology, individual
 rights arguments are based on whose interests are more important, the
 individual or the community.  You need to show how you think the
 morality of the community you espouse will help the individual who
 disagrees with what you believe.  Can you show how your idea of
 community morality will allow fundamentalist Judaism and Christianity to
 continue and still allow for community morality?  I can't see how it
 will be done under New Age thinking where that which causes separation
 is considered evil.

-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when
the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally
alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest
dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal,
well-meaning but without understanding.
Justice Louis D. Brandeis





NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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[CTRL] Bus riding and shopping oppressors get what they deserve

[thew]

Title: Bus riding and shopping oppressors get what they deserve
-Caveat Lector-






January 5, 2003

Suicide Bombers Hit Tel Aviv, Killing at Least 15
By REUTERS

Filed at 12:43 p.m. ET

TEL AVIV (Reuters) - At least 15 people were killed and dozens wounded in Israel in two explosions apparently set off by suicide bombers in a crowded area of central Tel Aviv on Sunday, Israeli emergency services said.

It was the first such attack in about six weeks in Israel and came ahead of a Jan. 28 general election for a new prime minister, at a time when security is key to many Israelis more than two years into a Palestinian uprising for statehood.

The emergency services said more than 50 people were wounded, half of them lightly but nine were in serious condition.

``Two explosions happened in parallel streets ... it's a place where there are many foreign workers,'' Yossi Sedbon, Tel Aviv police chief, told Israeli army radio.

``To my sorrow there are deaths,'' he said. ``It seems according to evidence in the area that we are talking of two suicide bombers.''

Alon Oz, an eyewitness, told Army radio:

``I heard the explosion, I felt the shockwave. I realized there would be many casualties. We looked for people who were breathing. I called over to them. I counted quite a few seriously wounded. People were lying there.''

People were sprawled on the streets. Some appeared to be dead, while others were nursing wounds to arms and legs.

Witnesses said there was extensive destruction of nearby buildings and even some people inside houses and shops were among the wounded.

The last suicide attack was on November 21, when a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up and killed 11 people on a bus in the Jerusalem suburb of Kiryat Menahem.

Sunday's blasts occurred in quick succession near the old Tel Aviv bus station and a nearby pedestrian mall in the coastal city. Hundreds of people were in the area when the explosions took place. 

Copyright 2003 Reuters Ltd. | Privacy Policy 

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you. 
Samuel Adams




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew






A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
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Om

Re: [CTRL] This One Won't Hunt

[thew]

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--

To be nobody but yourself, in a world which is doing its best, night and
day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle that any
human being can fight--and never stop fighting.

-  e.e. cummings









NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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Re: [CTRL] A Conversation with Robert Anton Wilson

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] A Conversation with Robert Anton Wilson
-Caveat Lector-





Unfortunately Bob is kind of sick these days  I hope he survives a while  we need more like him. He used to visit NY quite a bit, and it was always fun to see him and party together  alas those days seem to be over.

Just read his latest book  like always worth checking out.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561841692/qid=1041809362/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-3288819-7428906

TSOG: the thing that ate the constitution.

on 01/05/03 6:04 PM, Jay Lowry at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 

Freud had racial memory, Jung had the collective unconscious, Leary has the neurogenetic circuit, but there's no way any of it can work mechanically, and that's why biologists reject it. The only way it can work is with Sheldrake's non-local morpho-genetic field, which, if it exists, would let me send signals that will be able to effect the genes of future generations, and not just those directly descended from me. I can control the direction of evolution through thought forms I'm putting out, and so can everybody else.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J164219F2





Mitre Corp., Offutt AFB, September 11, DARPA, Global Hawk, and Wetware
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W291259F2 

WTC, Buffet, China, Offut AFB, L-3 , MONTAUK, BMI and the CIA
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P271149F2 


Do you Yahoo!?
A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

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-- -  --- - --- ---
Complete liberty of contradicting our opinion is the very condition which justifies us in assuming its truth.

John Stuart Mill




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Re: [CTRL] It's not the oil, stupid, it's the power

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] It's not the oil, stupid, it's the power
-Caveat Lector-





But before you said its not the oil its the power

So if oil is power it is the oil and it is the power

Im confused by your contradiction


on 01/04/03 2:22 PM, Jay Lowry at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 

why don't you smoke a joint already 

if oil didn't lead to power no one would seek it so strongly 

that means, by definition, it is the POWER STUPID 

Nurev Ind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
-Caveat Lector- At 10:31 AM 1/3/03 -0800, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- 

Statecraft http://memes.org/modules.php?op=modloadamp;name=Newsamp;file=indexamp;catid=29 : It's NOT the oil, Stupid, it's the power http://memes.org/modules.php?op=modloadamp;name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=1578amp;mode=threadamp;order=0amp;thold=0 
Posted by: souljah on Jan 03, 2003 - 10:08 AM

It IS the oil STUPID! It's all about oil because control of oil IS POWER! STUPID!



~~
Is Pakistan Next? Consider: As thousands of Pakistanis prepared to
demonstrate Friday against the possibility of a U.S.-led war against Iraq,
American troops based in Afghanistan threatened to complicate U.S.-Pakistani
relations by asserting they have the right to cross the border into Pakistan in
hot pursuit of enemy fighters.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I30D125F2


Do you Yahoo!?
A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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--  - --- -- --- --
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.

George Washington


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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Re: [CTRL] Time Laws and February 1st 2003

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Time Laws and February 1st 2003
-Caveat Lector-






At least you understand you are a loony, not concerned with science and a rational explanation of how things work

on 01/04/03 3:48 PM, John Miller at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 
Please consider this. 

Time Laws and February 1st 2003

It seems as if I have not connected with the thinking of most posters.

For I follow a continuous plan of chasing number patterns, number references, where the zero is often ignored. But for some reason I cannot do this, I cannot follow a set of God given rules because they do not follow atheistic-agnostic methodology. 

Imagine, I am criticized because I wont follow the usual rules.

But I am dealing not with science first, but with the metaphysical, and so God has his own set of rules. 

I repeat, I am attacked by one poster continuously for not being scientific, yet I have never, never claimed to be such, for I am a person of the Fringe.

So let me bore you with my one peculiar vision, at 2.30am May 16th 1983, and the second part was where the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher stood before me, although I was laying down in bed. She was wearing immaculate blue, and as I looked into her face a very strange thing started to manifest itself. For she started to melt as if wax from the top of the head down. Meaning her hair began to dissolve and the wax started to slowly trickle downwards. Her face had soon disappeared and the melting process continued. Now this was a strange happening indeed, for as the Prime Minister melted, a dark gray shape began to form where her body was dissolving. And slowly as the bright blue clothes of Mrs Thatcher were no more, there stood in front of me Satan himself. He was dark gray, he was hairless, his face had chiseled features and he was handsome. And I could only see the upper half of his naked but obviously strong body. His arms were crossed. Yes, crossed. He looked right into my eyes from some six feet away. And he kept looking at me, not so much menacingly, but with the look of a challenge. Now, I was absolutely clueless as to what all this could mean. And soon the vision ended and I knew I was not to get out of the bed until 6am. My wife who was next to me, and knew nothing of any of this, wondered what was happening as I jumped out of bed at 6am to go into another room to use my drawing board to scribble down what I saw. 

OK, now it was another 3.68 years before I started serious number crunching, for it was 9am January 19th 1987, that I stood before a large blazing fireplace in an 18th century house that looked west towards the Hell Fire caves of West Wycombe Park, UK, and I made the statement, I will call my investigation the GEM Factor, that is Gods Evidence for Mankind. 

So, it was 3.68 years or 0.80 times 46, and 46 is the reference number for the Law, that I started my investigation in earnest. 

Now, counting from 9am January 19th 1987 to 9.30am February 1st 2003 is 16.03566 years of number crunching. And as days is 18,400 days /Pi, at 5,856.90 days. And 18,400 is 4 times the Law at 4,600. 

Thus February 1st 2003, which reveals Miss Liberty between September 11th 2001 and February 1st 2003, is according to me, a Time Law day. 

So I wait to see what Earth horror happens on February 1st 2003. 
http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com 
A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
William of Occam


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew





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Re: [CTRL] Thousands protest Arab-Israeli Vote Ban

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

Does anyone know what justification they stated for banning them?


on 01/04/03 9:13 PM, flw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Print Edition  Ha'aretz
 Sunday, January 05, 2003 Shvat 2, 5763
 Israel Time:  04:08  (GMT+2)

 Thousands protest banning of Arab candidates from
 Knesset elections

 By Yair Ettinger and Jalal Bana
 Thousands took part yesterday in two separate demonstrations in Nazareth
 organized by the Hadash-Ta'al and Balad parties, to protest last week's
 disqualification of Arab Knesset candidates by the Central Elections
 Committee.

 Yesterday evening in Jerusalem, Peace Now activists protested in front of
 the Prime Minister's Residence against the disqualification of MK Ahmed
 Tibi from the Hadash-Ta'al list, and also MK Azmi Bishara and his Balad
 party, Israel Radio reported.

 Supporters of Hadash-Ta'al demonstrated yesterday in central Nazareth, to
 protest Tibi's disqualification by the CEC last week. Protesters chanted
 slogans attacking the government and right-wing parties, as well as slogans
 supporting the intifada and Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat.

 Leaders from Hadash-Ta'al argued with demonstrators who called on Israeli
 Arabs to boycott the upcoming elections. The leaders urged followers to
 cast ballots on January 28, so as to strengthen the Arab parties. They also
 chided Balad and Bishara for advocating an election boycott should
 Bishara's disqualification be upheld on Tuesday by the Supreme Court.

 MK Mohammed Barakeh, who heads Hadash-Ta'al., said If we boycott the
 elections, we'll abandon the Knesset to the right.

 Shhweki Khatib, chairman of the Arab Higher Monitoring Committee said
 during the Nazareth rally that disqualifying the Arab lists and MKs
 continues policies of hostility toward Arabs in Israel, and damages what is
 left of Israeli democracy. Khatib called on demonstrators to rally in
 front of the Supreme Court building in Jerusalem on Tuesday while the High
 Court reviews the CEC's decision to disqualify the Arab candidates.

 In another Nazareth rally yesterday, thousands of Balad supporters
 demonstrated against the CEC's decision to disqualify its list and party
 leader Bishara. Speakers attacked Israel's political establishment, and
 Attorney General Elyakim Rubinstein whose goal is to keep Bishara out of
 the Knesset, they said.

 We face a dangerous turning point in relations between the Arab public and
 the state of Israel, Bishara warned.

 On Friday, hundreds of Arabs and Jews met at Yafia, near Nazareth, to
 express in Hebrew and Arabic their condemnation of the CEC's decisions .

 Among the participants invited by Khatib were Meretz MKs Mussi Raz and
 Hussniya Jabara, who joined Knesset colleagues from Hadash and the Arab
 parties. Also attending were academics, and delegates from various activist
 groups such as Peace Now and Ta'ayush.

 Spokesmen from the Higher Monitoring Committee said that public protests
 against the disqualifications will continue today and tomorrow, and reach
 their peak during Tuesday's rally in front of the Supreme Court building.

 Participants at Friday's meeting discussed the idea of creating a
 Jewish-Arab Monitoring Committee which would work to prevent future
 crises.

 © Copyright 2003 Ha`aretz. All rights reserved

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Re: [CTRL] Lying Is Now A Primary Way Of Life A Practical Guide For Lie Detection

[thew]

-Caveat Lector-

As always rense is a source of crap and half crap


It is a brilliant piece in as much as it lies exactly the way it describes


Calling someone a Nazi or communist or whatever is not the voice of
conspiracy if the person is a Nazi or communist.

No one is trying to change the meaning of patriot there is just some
disagreement, to put it mildly, as to who is or is not patriotic.

on 01/02/03 9:34 PM, klewis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 http://www.rense.com/general33/lie.htm

 --

 Outgoing mail is certified virus free
 Scanned by Norton AntiVirus

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 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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--

The concept of ³god² is just a future memory of ourselves.

Barney
Funkasaurus



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Israel blamed for massacre at the Olympics

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israel blamed for massacre at the Olympics
-Caveat Lector-





This is slippery slope you slide down here

The blame for the massacre is with those who pulled the triggers.



on 01/01/03 3:47 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/01/01/nproc01.xmlsSheet=/news/2003/01/01/ixhome.html



Israel blamed for massacre at the Olympics 
(Filed: 01/01/2003) 


Senior diplomats mounted a vigorous defence of the Palestinian cause after the Black September terrorist attack on the Munich Olympics in which 11 Israeli athletes died.

Two were killed at the Games village and the others were held hostage and died, along with five of the kidnappers, in a bungled German rescue attempt at Furstenfeldbruch airfield after Israel refused to release 200 Palestinian prisoners.

There was international outrage but, with the exception of King Hussein of Jordan, a muted response in the Arab world.

Seeking to explain it, Gayford Woodrow, the consul general in Jerusalem, sent a dispatch to the Foreign Office on Sept 12, six days after the attack, saying: Before we reproach the Arabs too much, perhaps we might try to put ourselves in their shoes.

They are, after all, human beings with normal human failings. The Palestinians in particular have seen their land taken away from them by a group of mainly European invaders equipped with superior armed force and modern technology.

Whatever one's moral criticism, it must be agreed that the Munich operation was well planned and that the Arabs there carried it out to the bitter end. It is said that lives were really lost because of Israel and West German bungling incompetence.

Mr Woodrow's head of department, James Craig, wrote on his letter: Not bad but he goes just a little too far.

A month later Black September hijackers took over a Lufthansa jet en route from Beirut to Frankfurt and forced Germany to hand over three guerrillas captured during the Munich raid. David Gore-Booth, a first secretary at the Foreign Office, wrote: Before we shed too many tears about the Lufthansa hijacking, decide to boycott airlines like the trade unionists at Heathrow or feel obliged to express our concern to the German government, it would be as well to ask ourselves what the implications are so far as the Arab/Israel dispute is concerned.

It is self-evident that the hijacking is a manifestation of the Palestine problem. This is a problem which the Israelis are trying to solve in two main ways: one by pretending it does not exist (hence their claim that Amman is the capital of the Palestinians), the other by hitting the Palestinians so hard that they cease to exist, militarily if not physically.

What the hijacking does is to remind the international community that the Palestine problem exists: in one sense this is unwelcome to the Israelis as it shows their pretence for what it is, but in another it provides them with an excellent opportunity to enlist the aid of the international community in erasing the problem.

Hence their apoplectic reaction to the hijacking, which is of course calculated to produce the desired attitude in airline workers at Heathrow. It also provides them with an excellent opportunity to slip into Syria, bomb a few more bases and kill a few more innocent people with impunity. Deplorable though the hijacking may be it caused the loss of no lives whereas . . . casualties in Syria may be as many as 45 or even more.




A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- 
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant 
facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies and competitive values. For 
a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and 
falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its 
people. 
President John F. Kennedy 




A 

Re: [CTRL] Osama bin who?

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Osama bin who?
-Caveat Lector-




Exactly.
Bin laden was NEVER concerned with Israel  his target has always been Saudi rule, and taking the Americans who are in his way, defiling the holy land. Israel does not enter into it  and has never been at the root of 9/11

You guys are amazing

You complain about the almighty power of the mossad, and how they rule America, and know everything , and are the global spymasters, and with the same breath complain that Irael should have more spys and intelligenne on Bin Laden  an American created, funded and trained weapon, that as often happens, is now pointed at its former master.

Which is it  is Israel evil because the mossad knows too much, or because they dont know enough?

You want them out of American affairs, but expect them to shill for American Intelligence, when American intelligence falls short? The lack of info on bin laden may be due to 200 FBI agents and countless funds spent on a blowjob, rather than doing their real work.






on 01/01/03 3:51 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr021227_1_n.shtml



Osama bin who? 

In September 2001, an American request for the Israelis to share their information about Osama bin Laden went unanswered. At first, the Americans thought the Israelis were for some reason hiding their information. It was, however, only after heads of the secret intelligence service (Mossad) and the military intelligence service (Aman) went to Washington in person that the American administration learned the extraordinary inside story about what was going on. 

The reason why the American request went unanswered was that the Israelis did not have any substantial raw intelligence information about Bin Laden and his friends. And the reason for this is that Israel was not on Bin Laden's hit list. And since Bin Laden was not threatening Israel, the Israelis did not threaten him. He was never on the annual list of Islamist extremists issued by the espionage and security services. 

This sleepy Israeli approach towards Bin Laden has of course been changed. True? Wrong. Until this week, and regardless of the Kenya attack on Israeli tourists in November, Bin Laden is still not Israel's top priority for intelligence coverage. 

Israel's spymasters still think that even after Kenya, Bin Laden has bigger and less-protected targets than Israel to attack. The Israeli secret services' second reason is that, regardless of their worldwide reputation, they are overloaded with work and cannot stretch beyond their main target: espionage on Arab armies, Palestinian groups and Iran. 

233 of 513 words 

[End of non-subscriber extract.] 

A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --  -- - -- -
Truth is more of a stranger than fiction. -- Mark Twain 







NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Israel blamed for massacre at the Olympics

[thew]

Title: Re: [CTRL] Israel blamed for massacre at the Olympics
-Caveat Lector-




The king of Jordan has a marked interest in anything that puts the Palestinian capital in Jerusalem, and not Amman, wouldnt you say?


on 01/01/03 4:21 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/1/2003 2:59:01 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

This is slippery slope you slide down here

The blame for the massacre is with those who pulled the triggers.


I'm not sliding down any slope...the comments were made by diplomats. A HREF="" DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.  Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A 

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Om


-- 

The concept of god is just a future memory of ourselves.

Barney Funkasaurus



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew 




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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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