Hallo,
* Slavko [Sat, Nov 08 2014, 04:13:12PM]:
Why don't the anti-systemd people do what they've been threatening the
whole time and fuck off to another distro or to FreeBSD?
This is exact example why i stopped all my contribution to Debian, and
i will not start it again, despite if i
Eduard Bloch writes:
That's not my impression. It's more like: if you don't like systemd,
don't use it.
If I am left free of doing it, there is no problem, Debian does not
force me to use any desktop environment at all, and that pleases me
much, so if I am left free to use an older, tested
On 17/11/14 12:25, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
There were other poor design choices, it seems that Debian maintainers
have fixed some of them (i.e. renaming network devices), other seems
to be still there (binary logs...).
A default Debian jessie configuration has persistent text logs in
* On 2014 17 Nov 06:01 -0600, Eduard Bloch wrote:
Since systemd hatters usually fail on the second task, the rhetorical
arsenal is chosen accordingly (ad-hominem, trolling, misquoting, ...).
Here is the crux of the problem in these discussions and that is the use
of haters as an ad hominem as
Martin Read writes:
Administrators of systemd-based systems who wish to turn off the binary
log can, of course, simply add the line
Storage=none
Happy to hear that Debian configuration is now sane.
--
/\ ___Ubuntu: ancient
On 11/17/2014 at 08:21 AM, Martin Read wrote:
On 17/11/14 12:25, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
There were other poor design choices, it seems that Debian
maintainers have fixed some of them (i.e. renaming network
devices), other seems to be still there (binary logs...).
A default Debian
On 11/17/2014 03:54 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
On 11/17/2014 at 08:21 AM, Martin Read wrote:
A default Debian jessie configuration has persistent text logs in
/var/log written by rsyslog, and *volatile* binary logs in
/run/log/journal written by systemd-journald. Removing the binary
logs
Am 2014-11-17 15:54, schrieb The Wanderer:
On 11/17/2014 at 08:21 AM, Martin Read wrote:
On 17/11/14 12:25, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
There were other poor design choices, it seems that Debian
maintainers have fixed some of them (i.e. renaming network
devices), other seems to be still there
On 11/17/2014 at 10:06 AM, Christian Seiler wrote:
Am 2014-11-17 15:54, schrieb The Wanderer:
On 11/17/2014 at 08:21 AM, Martin Read wrote:
A default Debian jessie configuration has persistent text logs
in /var/log written by rsyslog, and *volatile* binary logs in
/run/log/journal
Am 2014-11-17 16:15, schrieb The Wanderer:
Part of what I found reassuring about the statements that Debian's
default systemd configuration stores the journal's binary logs only
in
memory was the idea that it would not be (needing to) write the log
data
separately to the binary format, or
Hallo,
* Nate Bargmann [Mon, Nov 17 2014, 07:46:48AM]:
Since systemd hatters usually fail on the second task, the rhetorical
arsenal is chosen accordingly (ad-hominem, trolling, misquoting, ...).
Here is the crux of the problem in these discussions and that is the use
of haters as an ad
Eduard Bloch wrote:
Hallo,
* Nate Bargmann [Mon, Nov 17 2014, 07:46:48AM]:
Since systemd hatters usually fail on the second task, the rhetorical
arsenal is chosen accordingly (ad-hominem, trolling, misquoting, ...).
Here is the crux of the problem in these discussions and that is the use
of
On Vi, 07 nov 14, 21:48:04, Kelly Clowers wrote:
I mean, with all the fighting that has been going on, I wouldn't be
surprised if it had *something* to do with it. Joey seems to be all
about systemd if you read his blog, so I am guessing it isn't about
it being used, but about the whole
Marty wrote:
On 11/12/2014 07:48 PM, Gary Roach wrote:
On 11/08/2014 04:19 AM, Keith Peter wrote:
Hello Bret and All
Mr Hess was writing to the 1000+ Debian developers so the subject line
*may* have made instant sense to them, but I take the wider point.
We had better explain the 'so long
Debian's mailing list had a sharp edge back in the 90's, the last times I
inhabited them for much time. And it still does. If it means anything,
Constitution or not, the Gentoo mailing list in its heyday was the epitome
of civility, in comparison. A breath of fresh air, and none of the
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 12:42:00PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Don Armstrong writes:
Sexism like this is inappropriate in Debian. Please stop.
Ok. List-parental-units.
Or LPU's for short. :)
--
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed,
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 03:35:08AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
On 12/11/2014, Don Armstrong d...@debian.org wrote:
I will not make any deals with you. I've resigned. I will not be
pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My
life is my own. I resign.
-- Patrick
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 07:53:47AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Chris Bannister writes:
I read that as 'trouble unsubscribing?' then Contact
listmas...@lists.debian.org.
I wrote:
I read it as 'technical trouble with this list'. You're right, though:
now that we have listmoms the footer
Chris Bannister writes:
ROFLMAO, what danger can he possibly cause at his age! wiping coffee
off keyboard
Dangerman was made in the 1960s.
--
John Never pick a fight with an old man. He may be to tired to fight
and so he'll just kill you Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
--
To
On 2014-11-12, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
ROFLMAO, what danger can he possibly cause at his age! wiping coffee
off keyboard
He's so old he's dead.
--
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with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact
On 13/11/2014, Curt cu...@free.fr wrote:
On 2014-11-12, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
ROFLMAO, what danger can he possibly cause at his age! wiping coffee
off keyboard
He's so old he's dead.
That may be so, but, as with Seneca and many others, his work still lives on.
On 11/08/2014 04:19 AM, Keith Peter wrote:
Hello Bret and All
Mr Hess was writing to the 1000+ Debian developers so the subject line
*may* have made instant sense to them, but I take the wider point.
We had better explain the 'so long and thanks for all the fish' quote
as well (looking at your
On 11/12/2014 07:48 PM, Gary Roach wrote:
On 11/08/2014 04:19 AM, Keith Peter wrote:
Hello Bret and All
Mr Hess was writing to the 1000+ Debian developers so the subject line
*may* have made instant sense to them, but I take the wider point.
We had better explain the 'so long and thanks for
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 08:00:27AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Chris Bannister writes:
I read that as 'trouble unsubscribing?' then Contact
listmas...@lists.debian.org.
I read it as 'technical trouble with this list'. You're right, though:
now that we have listmoms the footer needs to be
Chris Bannister writes:
I read that as 'trouble unsubscribing?' then Contact
listmas...@lists.debian.org.
I wrote:
I read it as 'technical trouble with this list'. You're right, though:
now that we have listmoms the footer needs to be redone. File a
wishlist bug.
Chris Bannister writes:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:53:47 -0600
John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote:
I read it as 'technical trouble with this list'. You're right, though:
now that we have listmoms the footer needs to be redone. File a
wishlist bug.
Chris Bannister writes:
'listmoms'?
Vernacular for
On 11/11/2014, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 08:00:27AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Chris Bannister writes:
I read that as 'trouble unsubscribing?' then Contact
listmas...@lists.debian.org.
I read it as 'technical trouble with this list'. You're
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, John Hasler wrote:
Vernacular for moderators, making sure that we play nice.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014, Bret Busby wrote:
Women who hit you with a list of things to do (Clean up your
room!...Mow The lawns!Wash the dishes) instead of hitting you
over the head with a hockey
Don Armstrong writes:
Sexism like this is inappropriate in Debian. Please stop.
Ok. List-parental-units.
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
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On 12/11/2014, Don Armstrong d...@debian.org wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, John Hasler wrote:
Vernacular for moderators, making sure that we play nice.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014, Bret Busby wrote:
Women who hit you with a list of things to do (Clean up your
room!...Mow The lawns!Wash the dishes)
-Original Message-
From: Bret Busby [mailto:bret.bu...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 9:28 AM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out?
On 11/11/2014, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 08:00:27AM -0600, John
On 11/8/2014 10:03 AM, Mart van de Wege mvdw...@gmail.com wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted. A developer with a lot of contributions is
chased away by the noise made by a bunch of whiners who can't even be
bothered to set up a test server.
Obviously you didn't bother to read his posts.
His
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 04:35:16AM -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
I thought this list had some minimal etiquette requirements? Do the list
moms really allow comments like the above to stand? If so, I guess
Debian has fallen farther than I thought, and maybe it *is* time to look
elsewhere - even
Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org writes:
And because some devs want to placate those whiners, we get interminable
political games and good people quitting the project.
Why don't the anti-systemd people do what they've been threatening the
whole time and fuck off to another distro or to
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 09:40:09AM +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
The listadmins act on things that they notice, or are brought to their
attention. They are rather busy and all volunteers. If you think a post to
this (list or any other Debian list) is in breach of the code of conduct,
please
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:01 PM, Mart van de Wege mvdw...@gmail.com wrote:
Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org writes:
And because some devs want to placate those whiners, we get interminable
political games and good people quitting the project.
Why don't the anti-systemd people do what
Chris Bannister writes:
I read that as 'trouble unsubscribing?' then Contact
listmas...@lists.debian.org.
I read it as 'technical trouble with this list'. You're right, though:
now that we have listmoms the footer needs to be redone. File a
wishlist bug.
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
On 11/10/2014 8:47 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
If systemd can stand on its own, it doesn't have to be defended
against every whinger that comes along.
(And I'll have you know that many, probably most of those you accuse
of being whiners are very busy working out alternatives.
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Tanstaafl wrote:
I thought this list had some minimal etiquette requirements?
Yes. See our code of conduct.
Do the list[masters] really allow comments like the above to stand?
We do not announce actions that we take publicly.
If you have a complaint about behavior on
On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 05:38:59PM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
What part of we don't want systemd on any of our systems don't you
get? If we don't want it, we won't be testing it.
There's still plenty of work to be done testing upgrade paths for sysvinit;
improving systemd-shim; patching
On Sat, Nov 08, 2014 at 08:52:32PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
That the moaners have their way and have driven out a reallly good developer
for daring to disagree with them.
Unless he says otherwise, I do not think it is fait to attribute Joey's
leaving to the moaners. The most likely explanation
On Du, 09 nov 14, 03:17:59, Bret Busby wrote:
I do not know what version number was sarge, but, from memory,
regarding Debian Linux 3 and 3.1, people complained and joked about
the long time between releases, and how at that time, it was a It
will happen when it happens, maybe in a year,
On Nov 9, 2014 4:46 AM, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 05:38:59PM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
What part of we don't want systemd on any of our systems don't you
get? If we don't want it, we won't be testing it.
There's still plenty of work to be done
On Nov 8, 2014 12:24 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net
wrote:
Mart van de Wege wrote:
Slavko li...@slavino.sk writes:
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:03:46 +0100 Mart van de Wege
mvdw...@gmail.com napísal:
Why don't the anti-systemd people do what they've been threatening the
shawn wilson wrote:
On Nov 8, 2014 12:24 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net
mailto:mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Mart van de Wege wrote:
Slavko li...@slavino.sk mailto:li...@slavino.sk writes:
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:03:46 +0100 Mart van de Wege
Carl ca...@panix.com writes:
Really? I may have unthinkingly assumed everyone reading was a native
speaker is American English. In my dialect, out means openly
homosexual far more often than quitting. The joke had nothing to do
with Mr. Hess and everything to do with mocking my own first
Kelly Clowers kelly.clow...@gmail.com writes:
On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:19 PM, golinux goli...@riseup.net wrote:
Joey Hess is leaving Debian. Anybody have a context? Anything to do with
the systemd controversy and the monolithic direction Debian is going?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 8/11/2014 7:51 PM, Mart van de Wege wrote:
The fact that the Constitution is being used to ram a GR down the
developers' throats two weeks before Jessie freeze may have a teensy bit
to do wit that?
Maybe so, but that in itself is sad. I'm
Hello Bret and All
Mr Hess was writing to the 1000+ Debian developers so the subject line
*may* have made instant sense to them, but I take the wider point.
We had better explain the 'so long and thanks for all the fish' quote
as well (looking at your sig) for the benefit of others. In one of
Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au writes:
On 8/11/2014 7:51 PM, Mart van de Wege wrote:
The fact that the Constitution is being used to ram a GR down the
developers' throats two weeks before Jessie freeze may have a teensy bit
to do wit that?
Maybe so, but that in
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:03:46 +0100 Mart van de Wege
mvdw...@gmail.com napísal:
Why don't the anti-systemd people do what they've been threatening the
whole time and fuck off to another distro or to FreeBSD?
This is exact example why i stopped all my contribution to Debian, and
i will
Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote:
I would rather it be done right [release...], than be done by an
otherwise /not/ necessary arbitrary date for a freeze.
I'd like to remind you that not having a pre-set freeze date didn't go
so well in the past. Getting Sarge out
On 14Nov08:1603+0100, Mart van de Wege wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted. A developer with a lot of contributions is
chased away by the noise made by a bunch of whiners who can't even be
bothered to set up a test server.
And because some devs want to placate those whiners, we get
David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com writes:
On 14Nov08:1603+0100, Mart van de Wege wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted. A developer with a lot of contributions is
chased away by the noise made by a bunch of whiners who can't even be
bothered to set up a test server.
And because some devs
Slavko li...@slavino.sk writes:
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:03:46 +0100 Mart van de Wege
mvdw...@gmail.com napísal:
Why don't the anti-systemd people do what they've been threatening the
whole time and fuck off to another distro or to FreeBSD?
This is exact example why i stopped all my
.
On November 7, 2014 9:20:47 PM EST, golinux goli...@riseup.net wrote:
On Fri, 11/7/14, Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com wrote:
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care
Mart van de Wege wrote:
Slavko li...@slavino.sk writes:
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:03:46 +0100 Mart van de Wege
mvdw...@gmail.com napísal:
Why don't the anti-systemd people do what they've been threatening the
whole time and fuck off to another distro or to FreeBSD?
This is exact
On 8 November 2014 16:48, Mart van de Wege mvdw...@gmail.com wrote:
David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com writes:
On 14Nov08:1603+0100, Mart van de Wege wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted. A developer with a lot of contributions is
chased away by the noise made by a bunch of whiners who can't
On 09/11/2014, Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de wrote:
Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote:
I would rather it be done right [release...], than be done by an
otherwise /not/ necessary arbitrary date for a freeze.
I'd like to remind you that not having a pre-set freeze
On Saturday 08 November 2014 17:12:39 Carl wrote:
Really? I may have unthinkingly assumed everyone reading was a native
speaker is American English. In my dialect, out means openly homosexual
far more often than quitting. The joke had nothing to do with Mr. Hess
and everything to do with
On Saturday 08 November 2014 17:31:48 Keith Peter wrote:
We need to work from examples and bugs rather than from grand sweeping
statements. You may not approve of 'whiners', but you will I assume
accept (sensible, non political/contrived) bug reports?
Of course. The problem is that the
On Sat, Nov 08, 2014 at 08:52:32PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
That didn't even cross my mind. American? Or just your circle? Would the
Tea Party concur? I took it to mean exactly what it did mean. That the
moaners have their way and have driven out a reallly good developer for
daring to
On Saturday 08 November 2014 21:07:50 Carl Fink wrote:
The humor (which clearly failed)
Sadly, humour - and humor ;-) - travels poorly. There have been English
English jokes on this list that would probably not travel even as far as
Scotland.
And I am hardly renowned for my outstanding wit
Lisi writes:
That didn't even cross my mind. American? Or just your circle?
His circle.
Would the Tea Party concur?
That meaning of out being at the top of the mind is more a San
Francisco sort of thing.
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
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On 11/07/2014 06:20 PM, golinux wrote:
On Fri, 11/7/14, Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com wrote:
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care that
Joey is gay
On 11/07/2014 06:20 PM, golinux wrote:
On Fri, 11/7/14, Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com wrote:
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care that
Joey is gay
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care that
Joey is gay?
Did you actually READ Joey's post. Those were his very own
On 11/08/2014 06:01 PM, golinux wrote:
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care that
Joey is gay?
Did you actually
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:16:38 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
Lisi writes:
That didn't even cross my mind. American? Or just your circle?
His circle.
Would the Tea Party concur?
That meaning of out being at the top of the mind is more a San
Francisco sort of thing.
Possibly a Montreal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 9/11/2014 2:03 AM, Mart van de Wege wrote:
Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au writes:
On 8/11/2014 7:51 PM, Mart van de Wege wrote:
The fact that the Constitution is being used to ram a GR down the
developers' throats
Joey Hess is leaving Debian. Anybody have a context? Anything to do
with the systemd controversy and the monolithic direction Debian is
going?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html
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with a subject of
Sad to read that. Joey is one of the most recognizable names in the
project. 18 years is quite some time, thanks for everything you have
done to make my computing experience what it has been for the past 15
years that I've used Debian and followed the project. Whatever you do
next, Joey, I hope
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html
On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote:
Sad to read that. Joey is one of the most recognizable names in the
project. 18 years is quite some time, thanks for everything you have
done to make my computing
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care that Joey is
gay?
--
Carl Fink nitpick...@nitpicking.com
Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
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On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com wrote:
Anyone else read [something] and think, [some inappropriate misreading]
--
Carl Fink nitpick...@nitpicking.com
Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you
On Fri, 11/7/14, Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com wrote:
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care that
Joey is gay?
Did
On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:19 PM, golinux goli...@riseup.net wrote:
Joey Hess is leaving Debian. Anybody have a context? Anything to do with
the systemd controversy and the monolithic direction Debian is going?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html
I mean, with all the
On Fri, 2014-11-07 at 21:48 -0800, Kelly Clowers wrote:
Personally I wonder what specifically he thinks makes the
Debian Constitution a toxic document.
Me too,... I had never considered the constitution as that
problematic,... I rather thing the Code of Conduct is going to cause
major
On 11/08/2014 12:48 AM, Kelly Clowers wrote:
On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:19 PM, golinux goli...@riseup.net wrote:
Joey Hess is leaving Debian. Anybody have a context? Anything to do with
the systemd controversy and the monolithic direction Debian is going?
On 08/11/2014, Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com wrote:
Anyone else read the subject line and think, Why would I care that Joey is
gay?
--
I read the subject line, and got the impression that someone had been
released from prison.
Clarity and unambiguousness are important in email message
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