RE: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-30 12:40, Emanuele Bernardi wrote: My system has en_US.utf8 for default, but I wanted the iso time so I just added the it_IT.utf8 (dpkg-reconfigure locales) and changed in gnome Region & Language the Formats. And what do you do when you need the Paper format, currency, numeric system, etc to be United States locale? Changing the GNOME format changes EVERY variable to whatever that country is set to (not necessarily what that country uses, what that country's file is set to). I live in the United States, and wouldn't you know it, some of us use international date time here. Whoa! But there is no way (in GNOME) to set the United States locale while using international date time. And yes the United States is still on the Imperial measurement system, but many professionals (e.g., scientists) use the Metric system in the United States. Yet we cannot set these when using GNOME. If I change the format (in GNOME) and switch to a locale that does use international date time, I then get currency, paper format, numeric, etc that do not conform to the USA.
RE: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
My system has en_US.utf8 for default, but I wanted the iso time so I just added the it_IT.utf8 (dpkg-reconfigure locales) and changed in gnome Region & Language the Formats. -Original Message- From: gwmf...@openmailbox.org [mailto:gwmf...@openmailbox.org] Sent: martedì 30 maggio 2017 18:22 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default? On 2017-05-30 08:46, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > Perhaps a GNOME-specific mailing list might have more options for you. > Maybe there's some way to tell GNOME not to touch the locale settings > *at all*, and simply let them pass through from the underlying > operating system. Yes, I have switched to taking up the issue with GNOME, but they appear not to care at all. I did not know the problem was with GNOME initially and discussing it with the Debian folks (which are awesome by the way) helped me figure out it was GNOME that is the problem.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-30 08:46, Greg Wooledge wrote: Perhaps a GNOME-specific mailing list might have more options for you. Maybe there's some way to tell GNOME not to touch the locale settings *at all*, and simply let them pass through from the underlying operating system. Yes, I have switched to taking up the issue with GNOME, but they appear not to care at all. I did not know the problem was with GNOME initially and discussing it with the Debian folks (which are awesome by the way) helped me figure out it was GNOME that is the problem.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 08:33:16AM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: > I want to make everything proper and swapping to all en_DK variables > fixes some things but not others. The only proper solution is to: > > 1) be able to change individual variables within Gnome (which I don't > think is possible in current gnome) > 2) create my own locale, which I do not know how to do. 3) Somehow get the GNOME developers to fix their crap. 4) Stop using GNOME. As long as we're being comprehensive. ;-) Perhaps a GNOME-specific mailing list might have more options for you. Maybe there's some way to tell GNOME not to touch the locale settings *at all*, and simply let them pass through from the underlying operating system.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Sat 27 May 2017 at 17:39:48 (+0200), Nicolas George wrote: > L'octidi 8 prairial, an CCXXV, gwmf...@openmailbox.org a écrit : > > […] > […] > In this matter, considerations such as "preserving local cultures" are > irrelevant. An astonishing juxtaposition! > Convenience sets a few rules. The most important of these is: the > decimal separator, which has a semantic role, must be much more visible > than the thousand separator, which has only an aesthetic role. Thus, dot > for decimal and comma for thousand is stupid. In view of your text following, "stupid" might be a bit strong. The drift is certainly towards whitespace separators, in which case it would no longer matter. > I suggest to apply the following rules, whenever you are free to chose > your rules: > > - Be liberal in what you accept: understand both dots and commas, do not > start a pedantic rant if you get a text with the "wrong" one. > > - In "casual" computerized text, especially monospace, use dot for > decimal and no thousand separator. > > - In typeset text, use dot for decimal and a thin space for thousands > (possibly: only if the range of the numbers exceeds , i.e. no > thousand separator for years for example). > > - In hand-written text, the visibility of the dot is not reliable > enough, use a comma for decimal. And a small space for thousand. Cheers, David.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-27, Curtwrote: > On 2017-05-27, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: >>> >>> Define "appears to not be working." Anyhow, I believe someone here can >>> help you with this if only they'll pipe up (and you stop top-posting). >>> >>> ;-) >> >> "Top-posting" is putting my writing above the quote? this is frowned >> upon? (or you were joking?). I wasn't aware top-posting was bad. I'll >> stop doing it. >> > > Normally, you should "interleave" your responses, trimming the material > not pertinent to your reply. > > I say this because bottom-posting (like bottom-fishing--well, not > precisely) in which the poster quotes (following others of his ilk) an > entire thread in order to make one superfluous comment at the bottom is > just as bad, if not worse (I think its worse), although the behavior is it's > seldom reprimanded. > > -- "It might be a vision--of a shell, of a wheelbarrow, of a fairy kingdom on the far side of the hedge; or it might be the glory of speed; no one knew." --Mrs. Ramsay, speculating on why her little daughter might be dashing about, in "To the Lighthouse," by Virginia Woolf.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
> "g" == gwmfms6writes: g> You are correct. typing locale in the virtual (text) console produces g> LC_TIME=en_DK. So GNOME is overriding PAM's environment. g> Thank you so much for helping me discover this! I learned a lot in the g> process. Did you re-start gdm after editing the files in /etc? You might even need to reboot given the use of a gui for login. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 0x997A9F17ED7DAEA6
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Saturday, May 27, 2017 11:39:03 AM Curt wrote: > Normally, you should "interleave" your responses, trimming the material > not pertinent to your reply. +1 > I say this because bottom-posting (like bottom-fishing--well, not > precisely) in which the poster quotes (following others of his ilk) an > entire thread in order to make one superfluous comment at the bottom is > just as bad, if not worse (I think its worse), although the behavior is > seldom reprimanded. +1
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-27 11:39, Nicolas George wrote: L'octidi 8 prairial, an CCXXV, gwmf...@openmailbox.org a écrit : A lot of Europe does it, and it is wrong! It goes back quite a while to when it was fashionable to use a dot (.) as a symbol for multiplication. So Europe stopped using a dot to signal a decimal point to avoid confusion (they should have stopped stopped using a dot as a symbol for multiplication). In the U.S. and G.B. an X was used for multiplication symbol so they continued on using a dot for decimal (as it should be). What glyph is used as a separator does not really matter. What really matter is that it is convenient and everybody uses the same. We could have settled for a heart-shaped symbol, it would have worked. In this matter, considerations such as "preserving local cultures" are irrelevant. It is a matter of communication, an even of (slightly) technical communication. Convenience and unambiguity are paramount. Hence the "everybody uses the same" condition. Convenience sets a few rules. The most important of these is: the decimal separator, which has a semantic role, must be much more visible than the thousand separator, which has only an aesthetic role. Thus, dot for decimal and comma for thousand is stupid. I suggest to apply the following rules, whenever you are free to chose your rules: - Be liberal in what you accept: understand both dots and commas, do not start a pedantic rant if you get a text with the "wrong" one. - In "casual" computerized text, especially monospace, use dot for decimal and no thousand separator. - In typeset text, use dot for decimal and a thin space for thousands (possibly: only if the range of the numbers exceeds , i.e. no thousand separator for years for example). - In hand-written text, the visibility of the dot is not reliable enough, use a comma for decimal. And a small space for thousand. Regards, Okay, I didn't mean to start something. I was attempting some humor in my previous emails about LC_NUMERIC, please read them in that context. Obviously Denmark's numerics, currency, and paper size creates problems when residing in the USA so I can't just switch to that to solve the LC_TIME problem.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Sat, 27 May 2017, at 16:24, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: > A lot of Europe does it, and it is wrong! It goes back quite a while to > when it was fashionable to use a dot (.) as a symbol for multiplication. I don't think it's a straightforward as that. Mathematics (at university level) uses dot that way, sometimes. But is also uses adjacency of symbols so eg "xy" means x times y, as may "x.y". > So Europe stopped using a dot to signal a decimal point to avoid > confusion (they should have stopped stopped using a dot as a symbol for > multiplication). In the U.S. and G.B. an X was used for multiplication > symbol so they continued on using a dot for decimal (as it should be). But mathematics also used dot and x to refer to concepts named dot-product and cross-product. In other words, what's acceptable/normal depends entirely on the audience. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
L'octidi 8 prairial, an CCXXV, gwmf...@openmailbox.org a écrit : > A lot of Europe does it, and it is wrong! It goes back quite a while to when > it was fashionable to use a dot (.) as a symbol for multiplication. So > Europe stopped using a dot to signal a decimal point to avoid confusion > (they should have stopped stopped using a dot as a symbol for > multiplication). In the U.S. and G.B. an X was used for multiplication > symbol so they continued on using a dot for decimal (as it should be). What glyph is used as a separator does not really matter. What really matter is that it is convenient and everybody uses the same. We could have settled for a heart-shaped symbol, it would have worked. In this matter, considerations such as "preserving local cultures" are irrelevant. It is a matter of communication, an even of (slightly) technical communication. Convenience and unambiguity are paramount. Hence the "everybody uses the same" condition. Convenience sets a few rules. The most important of these is: the decimal separator, which has a semantic role, must be much more visible than the thousand separator, which has only an aesthetic role. Thus, dot for decimal and comma for thousand is stupid. I suggest to apply the following rules, whenever you are free to chose your rules: - Be liberal in what you accept: understand both dots and commas, do not start a pedantic rant if you get a text with the "wrong" one. - In "casual" computerized text, especially monospace, use dot for decimal and no thousand separator. - In typeset text, use dot for decimal and a thin space for thousands (possibly: only if the range of the numbers exceeds , i.e. no thousand separator for years for example). - In hand-written text, the visibility of the dot is not reliable enough, use a comma for decimal. And a small space for thousand. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-27, gwmf...@openmailbox.orgwrote: >> >> Define "appears to not be working." Anyhow, I believe someone here can >> help you with this if only they'll pipe up (and you stop top-posting). >> >> ;-) > > "Top-posting" is putting my writing above the quote? this is frowned > upon? (or you were joking?). I wasn't aware top-posting was bad. I'll > stop doing it. > Normally, you should "interleave" your responses, trimming the material not pertinent to your reply. I say this because bottom-posting (like bottom-fishing--well, not precisely) in which the poster quotes (following others of his ilk) an entire thread in order to make one superfluous comment at the bottom is just as bad, if not worse (I think its worse), although the behavior is seldom reprimanded.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-27 10:49, Frank wrote: Op 27-05-17 om 14:33 schreef gwmf...@openmailbox.org: Denmark does LC_NUMERIC wrong (using a comma where there should be a decimal point). Really? When did Denmark start using a decimal point instead of a comma? Regards, Frank A lot of Europe does it, and it is wrong! It goes back quite a while to when it was fashionable to use a dot (.) as a symbol for multiplication. So Europe stopped using a dot to signal a decimal point to avoid confusion (they should have stopped stopped using a dot as a symbol for multiplication). In the U.S. and G.B. an X was used for multiplication symbol so they continued on using a dot for decimal (as it should be). God help the United States though with its continual reliance on the Imperial system for measurement and it's crazy date/time setup.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-27 10:20, Curt wrote: On 2017-05-27, gwmf...@openmailbox.orgwrote: This definitely explains the problem (Thanks for contributing!), but I don't think it's a real solution because changing the Gnome region like described (although it does change LC_TIME) changes other variables (in addition to LC_TIME) that make no sense for the United States (eg., LC_NUMERIC, LC_MONETARY, LC_PAPER). Denmark does LC_NUMERIC wrong (using a comma where there should be a decimal point). The United States does LC_TIME and LC_MEASUREMENT wrong. Holy Jesus. I want to make everything proper and swapping to all en_DK variables fixes some things but not others. The only proper solution is to: 1) be able to change individual variables within Gnome (which I don't think is possible in current gnome) 2) create my own locale, which I do not know how to do. I've found two guides (linked below) for doing it but neither of them worked for me (I think the part about using localedef appears to not be working.) https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/136920/set-custom-locales-in-gnome3-on-fedora-20 https://askubuntu.com/questions/653008/how-to-create-a-new-system-locale Define "appears to not be working." Anyhow, I believe someone here can help you with this if only they'll pipe up (and you stop top-posting). ;-) "Top-posting" is putting my writing above the quote? this is frowned upon? (or you were joking?). I wasn't aware top-posting was bad. I'll stop doing it.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
Op 27-05-17 om 14:33 schreef gwmf...@openmailbox.org: Denmark does LC_NUMERIC wrong (using a comma where there should be a decimal point). Really? When did Denmark start using a decimal point instead of a comma? Regards, Frank
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-27, gwmf...@openmailbox.orgwrote: > This definitely explains the problem (Thanks for contributing!), but I > don't think it's a real solution because changing the Gnome region like > described (although it does change LC_TIME) changes other variables (in > addition to LC_TIME) that make no sense for the United States (eg., > LC_NUMERIC, LC_MONETARY, LC_PAPER). > > Denmark does LC_NUMERIC wrong (using a comma where there should be a > decimal point). The United States does LC_TIME and LC_MEASUREMENT wrong. Holy Jesus. > I want to make everything proper and swapping to all en_DK variables > fixes some things but not others. The only proper solution is to: > > 1) be able to change individual variables within Gnome (which I don't > think is possible in current gnome) > 2) create my own locale, which I do not know how to do. I've found two > guides (linked below) for doing it but neither of them worked for me (I > think the part about using localedef appears to not be working.) > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/136920/set-custom-locales-in-gnome3-on-fedora-20 > https://askubuntu.com/questions/653008/how-to-create-a-new-system-locale > Define "appears to not be working." Anyhow, I believe someone here can help you with this if only they'll pipe up (and you stop top-posting). ;-)
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
This definitely explains the problem (Thanks for contributing!), but I don't think it's a real solution because changing the Gnome region like described (although it does change LC_TIME) changes other variables (in addition to LC_TIME) that make no sense for the United States (eg., LC_NUMERIC, LC_MONETARY, LC_PAPER). Denmark does LC_NUMERIC wrong (using a comma where there should be a decimal point). The United States does LC_TIME and LC_MEASUREMENT wrong. I want to make everything proper and swapping to all en_DK variables fixes some things but not others. The only proper solution is to: 1) be able to change individual variables within Gnome (which I don't think is possible in current gnome) 2) create my own locale, which I do not know how to do. I've found two guides (linked below) for doing it but neither of them worked for me (I think the part about using localedef appears to not be working.) https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/136920/set-custom-locales-in-gnome3-on-fedora-20 https://askubuntu.com/questions/653008/how-to-create-a-new-system-locale On 2017-05-27 06:10, Curt wrote: On 2017-05-26, Greg Wooledgewrote: On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:57:22PM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: A virtual console (eg, Ctrl+Alt+F2) produces the correct result when I type ncal. But if I type ncal in gnome-terminal, it starts the weeks with Sunday (which is wrong). GNOME problem, right? That's why /etc/default/locale isn't working how I expected? Yes, sounds like it. This might be helpful to the OP. https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2014-December/455809.html
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On 2017-05-26, Greg Wooledgewrote: > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:57:22PM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: >> A virtual console (eg, Ctrl+Alt+F2) produces the correct result when I >> type ncal. >> >> But if I type ncal in gnome-terminal, it starts the weeks with Sunday >> (which is wrong). GNOME problem, right? That's why /etc/default/locale >> isn't working how I expected? > > Yes, sounds like it. > This might be helpful to the OP. https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2014-December/455809.html -- "It might be a vision--of a shell, of a wheelbarrow, of a fairy kingdom on the far side of the hedge; or it might be the glory of speed; no one knew." --Mrs. Ramsay, speculating on why her little daughter might be dashing about, in "To the Lighthouse," by Virginia Woolf.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
You are correct. typing locale in the virtual (text) console produces LC_TIME=en_DK. So GNOME is overriding PAM's environment. Thank you so much for helping me discover this! I learned a lot in the process. On 2017-05-26 13:01, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:54:24PM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: I neglected to say my environment. Sorry! I am on GNOME and login via GDM. I do not use SSH and it says connection refused when I try. when I open a virtual console, and type ncal, the calendar begins with Monday--so this appears to be working. The problem is with GNOME, then? I suppose Debian can't help with that? Perhaps. I'd still like to confirm that. Press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to a text console, and login there. Do you get a different result? If you want to include the results in an email, it might be helpful to redirect to a file: Ctrl-Alt-F2 username password locale > ~/locale.out exit Ctrl-Alt-F1 open a terminal if necessary cat ~/locale.out paste into email if necessary If you get a different result on the text console, that is strong evidence that GNOME is overriding PAM's locale environment variables, and then you would need to do something in GNOME to get the change you want.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:57:22PM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: > A virtual console (eg, Ctrl+Alt+F2) produces the correct result when I > type ncal. > > But if I type ncal in gnome-terminal, it starts the weeks with Sunday > (which is wrong). GNOME problem, right? That's why /etc/default/locale > isn't working how I expected? Yes, sounds like it.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:54:24PM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: > I neglected to say my environment. Sorry! I am on GNOME and login via > GDM. > > I do not use SSH and it says connection refused when I try. > > when I open a virtual console, and type ncal, the calendar begins with > Monday--so this appears to be working. > > The problem is with GNOME, then? I suppose Debian can't help with that? Perhaps. I'd still like to confirm that. Press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to a text console, and login there. Do you get a different result? If you want to include the results in an email, it might be helpful to redirect to a file: Ctrl-Alt-F2 username password locale > ~/locale.out exit Ctrl-Alt-F1 open a terminal if necessary cat ~/locale.out paste into email if necessary If you get a different result on the text console, that is strong evidence that GNOME is overriding PAM's locale environment variables, and then you would need to do something in GNOME to get the change you want.
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
A virtual console (eg, Ctrl+Alt+F2) produces the correct result when I type ncal. But if I type ncal in gnome-terminal, it starts the weeks with Sunday (which is wrong). GNOME problem, right? That's why /etc/default/locale isn't working how I expected? On 2017-05-26 12:54, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: I neglected to say my environment. Sorry! I am on GNOME and login via GDM. I do not use SSH and it says connection refused when I try. when I open a virtual console, and type ncal, the calendar begins with Monday--so this appears to be working. The problem is with GNOME, then? I suppose Debian can't help with that? On 2017-05-26 12:48, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 06:31:29PM +0200, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: ~/Desktop $ cat /etc/default/locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 ~/Desktop $ locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE= LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL= As you can see LC_TIME is set to en_DK in /etc/default/locale but locale is not reporting this when it is run. Does this change if you login on a text console? Does this change if you login via "ssh localhost" (or "ssh $HOSTNAME", or ssh in from a different host to this one over a network)? What desktop environment are you using? What display manager are you using to login?
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
I neglected to say my environment. Sorry! I am on GNOME and login via GDM. I do not use SSH and it says connection refused when I try. when I open a virtual console, and type ncal, the calendar begins with Monday--so this appears to be working. The problem is with GNOME, then? I suppose Debian can't help with that? On 2017-05-26 12:48, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 06:31:29PM +0200, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: ~/Desktop $ cat /etc/default/locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 ~/Desktop $ locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE= LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL= As you can see LC_TIME is set to en_DK in /etc/default/locale but locale is not reporting this when it is run. Does this change if you login on a text console? Does this change if you login via "ssh localhost" (or "ssh $HOSTNAME", or ssh in from a different host to this one over a network)? What desktop environment are you using? What display manager are you using to login?
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 06:31:29PM +0200, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: > ~/Desktop $ cat /etc/default/locale > LANG=en_US.UTF-8 > LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 > ~/Desktop $ locale > LANG=en_US.UTF-8 > LANGUAGE= > LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" > LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 > LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 > LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" > LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 > LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" > LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 > LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" > LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" > LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" > LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 > LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" > LC_ALL= > As you can see LC_TIME is set to en_DK in /etc/default/locale but locale > is not reporting this when it is run. Does this change if you login on a text console? Does this change if you login via "ssh localhost" (or "ssh $HOSTNAME", or ssh in from a different host to this one over a network)? What desktop environment are you using? What display manager are you using to login?
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
I did #1 and #2 before posting here, before putting LC_TIME at /etc/default/locale. I reconfirmed that it is as you say it should be when running locale -a. Here is what locale reports after I log back in: ~/Desktop $ locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE= LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL= Here is what my /etc/default/locale looks like: ~/Desktop $ cat /etc/default/locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 As you can see LC_TIME is set to en_DK in /etc/default/locale but locale is not reporting this when it is run. I did #1 and #2 before posting here, before putting LC_TIME at /etc/default/locale. I reconfirmed that it is as you say it should be when running locale -a. Here is what locale reports after I log back in: ~/Desktop $ locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE= LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL= Here is what my /etc/default/locale looks like: ~/Desktop $ cat /etc/default/locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 As you can see LC_TIME is set to en_DK in /etc/default/locale but locale is not reporting this when it is run. I did #1 and #2 before posting here, before putting LC_TIME at /etc/default/locale. I reconfirmed that it is as you say it should be when running locale -a. Here is what locale reports after I log back in: ~/Desktop $ locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE= LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL= Here is what my /etc/default/locale looks like: ~/Desktop $ cat /etc/default/locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 As you can see LC_TIME is set to en_DK in /etc/default/locale but locale is not reporting this when it is run. On 2017-05-26 18:05, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 11:54:14AM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: Thank you. You forgot to include the mailing list. I have already done #1 and #2. Did it work? #3 is what I need Did it work? but I want them permanent. I am fine with it being system-wide for every login (ie, /etc/default/locale but as I said putting them doesn't work). I will also go to the trouble of configuring for each user if this is the only way to make these variables "permanent." How do I make these settings permanent? If you actually did put them in /etc/default/locale then I am confused about what you're asking, or what's actually wrong. PAM logins in jessie (sshd, console login) are configured by default to read environment variables from /etc/default/locale via the /etc/pam.d/* files that contain "pam_env.so readenv=1 envfile=/etc/default/locale" or similar. If you log out and back in, and run "locale" with no arguments, what does it say? Is it possible that your desktop environment is overwriting whatever PAM sets in the environment? Try testing via a console or ssh login, and see if it's different there. (E.g. "ssh localhost" and then run "locale".) If you get a different result from this, that would be *highly* significant. What desktop environment or window manager are you actually using? How are you logging in? (Console + startx, or lightdm, or gdm3, or some other display manager)
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 11:54:14AM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: > Thank you. You forgot to include the mailing list. > I have already done #1 and #2. Did it work? > #3 is what I need Did it work? > but I want them permanent. I am fine with it being > system-wide for every login (ie, /etc/default/locale but as I said > putting them doesn't work). I will also go to the trouble of configuring > for each user if this is the only way to make these variables > "permanent." How do I make these settings permanent? If you actually did put them in /etc/default/locale then I am confused about what you're asking, or what's actually wrong. PAM logins in jessie (sshd, console login) are configured by default to read environment variables from /etc/default/locale via the /etc/pam.d/* files that contain "pam_env.so readenv=1 envfile=/etc/default/locale" or similar. If you log out and back in, and run "locale" with no arguments, what does it say? Is it possible that your desktop environment is overwriting whatever PAM sets in the environment? Try testing via a console or ssh login, and see if it's different there. (E.g. "ssh localhost" and then run "locale".) If you get a different result from this, that would be *highly* significant. What desktop environment or window manager are you actually using? How are you logging in? (Console + startx, or lightdm, or gdm3, or some other display manager)
Re: How to set ISO date/time with en_US.utf8 as system default?
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 11:30:15AM -0400, gwmf...@openmailbox.org wrote: > This wiki is apparently out of date because it does not work: > https://wiki.debian.org/Locale#First_day_of_week I don't advise putting ANYTHING at all in /etc/default/locale. That would affect all logins by all users from all computers. But supposing either (1) that's actually what you want, or (2) you're going to set your variables in your personal login configuration instead > I have the system default set to en_US.utf8. But I need sensical dates > and times (and en_US.utf8 uses nonsensical date & time format). > > How can I set my Debian 8 stable to use en_DK.utf8 for LC_TIME and > LC_MEASUREMENT variables while keeping en_US.utf8 the system default for > everything else? 1) Make sure both locales have actually been generated, via dpkg-reconfigure locales 2) Verify they they are both available: titan:~$ locale -a C C.UTF-8 en_DK.utf8 en_US.utf8 POSIX 3) Set the variables: titan:~$ export LANG=en_US.utf8 LC_TIME=en_DK.utf8 LC_MEASUREMENT=en_DK.utf8 (If you want this to be permanent, figure out what dot files to put them in. That's the hardest part of all.) 4) Test: titan:~$ ncal May 2017 Mo 1 8 15 22 29 Tu 2 9 16 23 30 We 3 10 17 24 31 Th 4 11 18 25 Fr 5 12 19 26 Sa 6 13 20 27 Su 7 14 21 28 titan:~$ unset LC_TIME LC_MEASUREMENT titan:~$ ncal May 2017 Su 7 14 21 28 Mo 1 8 15 22 29 Tu 2 9 16 23 30 We 3 10 17 24 31 Th 4 11 18 25 Fr 5 12 19 26 Sa 6 13 20 27