Re: *****SPAM***** Marking as spam [was: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian]

[Nicolas George]

rtnetz...@windstream.net (12024-04-18):
> As I understand what he wrote, the SPAM tag is added after the message leaves 
> his control.

I very much doubt it, we would see “*SPAM* Re:” rather than
“Re: *SPAM*”.

And his recent “Sorry” mail was not tagged.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/04/msg00294.html

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: *****SPAM***** Marking as spam [was: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian]

[rtnetz...@windstream.net]

As I understand what he wrote, the SPAM tag is added after the message leaves 
his control.

- Original Message -
From: "Nicolas George" 
To: "debian-user" 
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2024 11:13:44 AM
Subject: Re: *SPAM* Marking as spam [was: *SPAM***** Re: 
LibreOffice removed from Debian]

Hans (12024-04-18):
> As I can not fix it

You can manually remove “*SPAM*” from the mail when you reply.

You could even automate it on your end.

-- 
  Nicolas George
-- 
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob

Re: *****SPAM***** Marking as spam [was: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian]

[Nicolas George]

Hans (12024-04-18):
> As I can not fix it

You can manually remove “*SPAM*” from the mail when you reply.

You could even automate it on your end.

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: *****SPAM***** Marking as spam [was: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian]

[Hans]

Am Donnerstag, 18. April 2024, 11:53:38 CEST schrieb to...@tuxteam.de:
Hi Tomas,

this is by debian servers, I talked about this for a while. Because the debian 
servers mark some things in the header, megamailservers.eu mark them as spam 
and add SPAM to the headline.

As I can not fix it and debian admins will also not do, and I just answered to 
the debian mail, you see the spam mark in the headline.

I am no motre thinking of it, because everything was said in another theread 
in this list.

For myself I made a rule in spamassassin, that mails from debian are 
whitelisted, although they are marked as spam and although they are appearing 
with SPA in the headline - as I know, they are NO spam!

Hope, this explains it.

Best 

Hans 
> Hi, Hans
> 
> is it your mail setup adding that *SPAM* decoration to the
> subject?
> 
> Just curious...
> 
> cheers

Re: On user expectations (Was Re: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian)

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:35:58 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

Hello Andy,

>I suspect that your text above has come out sounding more entitled
>than you intended, as English is not your first language.

In fairness to Hans, he did go on to explain as much.

-- 
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 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
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On user expectations (Was Re: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian)

[Andy Smith]

Hi Hans,

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:38:18AM +0200, Hans wrote:
> I only hope, it will not happen the same fate like usermin and webmin 
> happened 
> to: It was once removed from the repoi with th ereason "spagehetti code, bad 
> code" and then no one ever took a look again to it, although many, many years 
> of coding passed by. 
> 
> And webmin and usermin are still developed! 

I suspect that your text above has come out sounding more entitled
than you intended, as English is not your first language.

Just bear in mind that you are/were expecting volunteers to do free
work for you in packaging this software for Debian. If they no
longer see the value in doing so, that is their concern and their
concern alone. If they never took any interest in it again, that
also is solely their own concern.

Every single package in Debian relies upon there being maintainers
who are interested in packaging it for Debian. We all live in
constant hope that our favoured packages are still worth packaging.

As you say, you are fortunate enough to still have a project that
has active upstream developers so it is still your option to either
install this software from upstream yourself, or pay them to do the
packaging work that you used to get for free.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:38:18 +0200
Hans  wrote:

Hello Hans,

>I only hope, it will not happen the same fate like usermin and webmin
>happened to: It was once removed from the repoi with th ereason
>"spagehetti code, bad code" and then no one ever took a look again to

Which, no doubt, makes it harder to patch (if necessary).  

>And webmin and usermin are still developed! 

Based on the foregoing (i.e. above), they were exceptional cases. 

>This is not mourning, please note, just things, I am just reflect my 
>watchings. 

Yeah, we all do it.  Sometimes.   :-)

I desire the return of certain behaviours in various programs, but it's
never going to happen;  I just had to get used to it.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Hey there, Mr Average, you don't exist, you never did
Persons Unknown - Poison Girls


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Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Michael Kjörling]

On 18 Apr 2024 11:38 +0200, from hans.ullr...@loop.de (Hans):
> And for libreoffice I suppose, it is planned, to change from 7.6 to 24.4, 
> which will be a major jump.

LibreOffice recently changed the version numbering scheme from X.Y
(relatively arbitrary numbering) to YY.M (release year and month).

Given that 7.6 was released in August 2023 and 24.2 _just_ before
February 2024 (Wikipedia puts it at 31 Jan 2024), the jump from 7.6 to
24.2 represents about half a year's worth of development.

And please trim your mail system's "SPAM" markers from subject lines
when replying.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Marking as spam [was: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian]

[tomas]

Hi, Hans

is it your mail setup adding that *SPAM* decoration to the
subject?

Just curious...

cheers
-- 
t


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Re: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Hans]

I only hope, it will not happen the same fate like usermin and webmin happened 
to: It was once removed from the repoi with th ereason "spagehetti code, bad 
code" and then no one ever took a look again to it, although many, many years 
of coding passed by. 

And webmin and usermin are still developed! 

I suppose, it is much easier, to remove a package, than to fix it. Once 
removed, it will soon be forgotten.

This is not mourning, please note, just things, I am just reflect my 
watchings. 

And for libreoffice I suppose, it is planned, to change from 7.6 to 24.4, 
which will be a major jump.

Don't anger, if I do not find the correct Englisg idioms!

Best 

Hans 

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:55:26 +0200
Erwan David  wrote:

Hello Erwan,

>What scares me is seeing part of 18 ongoing transition, and 4 "coming 
>soon transitions" with "please do not upload if it is not related to
>the transition".

Several (well, lots of) transitions have landed at pretty the same time.
IME they're usually quite safe - just the occasional oddity, like the
occasional, temporary, package removal.  This set is going to bite deep,
I think.

Ultimately, though, it'll be fine, I'm sure.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
All these things are mine!
Money is Not Our God -  Killing Joke


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Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Michael Kjörling]

On 18 Apr 2024 09:55 +0200, from er...@rail.eu.org (Erwan David):
>> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice
> 
> What scares me is seeing part of 18 ongoing transition, and 4 "coming soon
> transitions" with "please do not upload if it is not related to the
> transition".

Why does that scare you?

Those entries are related to testing; that is, it seems to me, Trixie.

We're over a year away from a likely release of Trixie, or
correspondingly half way in between the Bookworm and Trixie releases.
(Note: I have no special knowledge of the release cycle planning for
Trixie. This is based on historical evidence and an assumption that
something approximating the release cycle for the last several
releases will apply also to Trixie, which would put a Trixie release
in mid-2025.)

Large-scale changes in Testing and Unstable _especially_ at this point
in the release cycle are to be expected. Sometimes those changes will
by necessity block other changes until everything is sorted out in
terms of versions, dependencies and packaging.

If you want stability, run Stable (and maybe Backports). If you're
running Testing or Unstable (let alone with Experimental on top of
that), then you should _expect_ there to be occasional breakage or
large-scale changes that can block upgrades until it is all sorted
out by the package maintainers, and which may sometimes require local
intervention as well.

To be fair, this did apparently cause some side effects of bugs being
closed incorrectly; but my understanding from the sidelines of this
thread is that that was corrected quickly once brought to attention.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Marco Moock]

Am 18.04.2024 schrieb Erwan David :

> What scares me is seeing part of 18 ongoing transition, and 4 "coming 
> soon transitions" with "please do not upload if it is not related to
> the transition".

That is Debian unstable. There will be changes that break things and it
is intended to find and fix them.

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Erwan David]

Le 17/04/2024 à 15:26, Brad Rogers a écrit :

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:12:39 +0200
Vincent Lefevre  wrote:

Hello Vincent,


Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice

Has all the info you need, and more.  Expect it to be removed from
testing, too.

This is not permanent.

What scares me is seeing part of 18 ongoing transition, and 4 "coming 
soon transitions" with "please do not upload if it is not related to the 
transition".

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Stefan Monnier]

> Actually, if I understand correctly, LibreOffice will really be
> removed on some architectures (armhf ppc64el s390x mips64el riscv64).




Stefan

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed Apr 17, 2024 at 4:31 PM BST, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> That's not what I see here. Perhaps share one of your affected bug
> numbers?

Ah  (from
elsewhere in the thread) explains it.


-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed Apr 17, 2024 at 2:30 PM BST, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> Not just mine. It seems that *all* bug reports against
> libreoffice have been closed:
>
>   
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?archive=0;ordering=normal;repeatmerged=0;src=libreoffice
>
> Only bug 883734 is open, but this is because it has been reopened.

That's not what I see here. Perhaps share one of your affected bug
numbers?




-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 16:18:23 +0200
Vincent Lefevre  wrote:

Hello Vincent,

>Actually, if I understand correctly, LibreOffice will really be
>removed on some architectures (armhf ppc64el s390x mips64el riscv64).
>Fortunately, I am not concerned by this removal (only by the fact
>that my bug reports were closed, but this has now been fixed).

Indeed;  There's a lot going on ATM, and it's almost inevitable that
"stuff"(1) happens at times like this.

Thankfully it was, easily, and quickly, sorted.

(1) i.e. mistakes get made.

-- 
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 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
The deadbeats and the dispossessed, the seekers of unlikeliness
Street Of Dreams - The Damned


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Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2024-04-17 16:13:30 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> I've sent a message to bug 1069123 (which requested the removal).
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1069123#20 and
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1069123#25 say
> that the request was correct, but the bugs shouldn't have been
> closed. They have now been reopened.

Actually, if I understand correctly, LibreOffice will really be
removed on some architectures (armhf ppc64el s390x mips64el riscv64).
Fortunately, I am not concerned by this removal (only by the fact
that my bug reports were closed, but this has now been fixed).

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2024-04-17 14:59:18 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:35:57 +0200
> Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> 
> Hello Vincent,
> 
> >If this is not permanent, why have all the bugs been closed?
> 
> That I have no answer for.

I've sent a message to bug 1069123 (which requested the removal).

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1069123#20 and
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1069123#25 say
that the request was correct, but the bugs shouldn't have been
closed. They have now been reopened.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:35:57 +0200
Vincent Lefevre  wrote:

Hello Vincent,

>If this is not permanent, why have all the bugs been closed?

That I have no answer for.

I was basing my "this is not permanent" on the fact that there are a
large number of auto-transitions currently ongoing, and many packages
are, as a result, are being affected(1).  I thought that LO was caught
up in it all.

Based on all the bug closures (I had no idea that was the case until you
mentioned it), I am at a loss to know what's occurring(2).

(1) currently only a handful of packages installed on my system have been
removed from testing, but I expect that number to grow before things
start getting back to 'normal'

(2) Thomas' message sheds light, I think.

-- 
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 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
I'd hate to look into those eyes and see an ounce of pain
Sweet Child O'Mine - Guns 'N' Roses


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Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Sarunas Burdulis]

On 4/17/24 09:12, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???


Seems still to be included in unstable and experimental:

$ apt policy libreoffice
libreoffice:
  Installed: 4:24.2.2-3+b1
  Candidate: 4:24.2.2-3+b1
  Version table:
 *** 4:24.2.2-3+b1 500
500 http://deb.debian.org/debian sid/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
 4:24.2.2~rc2-2 1
  1 https://deb.debian.org/debian experimental/main amd64 Packages


--
Sarunas Burdulis
Dartmouth Mathematics
math.dartmouth.edu/~sarunas

· https://useplaintext.email ·



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Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2024-04-17 14:26:12 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:12:39 +0200
> Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> 
> Hello Vincent,
> 
> >Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice
> 
> Has all the info you need, and more.  Expect it to be removed from
> testing, too.

Indeed:

"This package has been requested to be removed. This means that, when
this request gets processed by an ftp-master, this package will no
longer be in unstable, and will automatically be removed from testing
too afterwards. If for some reason you want keep this package in
unstable, please discuss so in the bug. Please see bug number #1069123
for more information."

> This is not permanent.

If this is not permanent, why have all the bugs been closed?

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???

  https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice

says

  The dependencies of libuno-cppuhelpergcc3-3=4:24.2.0-1 cannot be
  satisfied in unstable on arm64, s390x, i386, ppc64el, armel, amd64,
  and armhf
  [...]
  Depends on packages which need a new maintainer
  [...]
  This package has been requested to be removed. [...]
  Please see bug number #1069123 for more information.

This bug looks somewhat like a misunderstanding between the maintainer
and the Debian FTP Master.
The maintainer declares a lot of packages to be "cruft"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Harvard_Cruft_Hall.png)
referring to various arches, but not to amd64.
The Masters seem to react by marking the source package "libreoffice"
for removal. (It is in the maintainer's cruft list, indeed.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2024-04-17 15:24:47 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2024-04-17 15:19:26 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
> > Am 17.04.2024 um 15:12:39 Uhr schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> > 
> > > Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???
> > 
> > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice
> > According to the tracker, it specific release got removed from
> > experimental. This is a special repo for testing and should only be
> > used by people who want an unstable testing system.
> > 
> > It is still available in stable and also in unstable.
> 
> No, I do not use experimental (except in rare cases, but libreoffice
> was not concerned), and (all?) my bug reports against libreoffice have
> been closed due to this removal.

Not just mine. It seems that *all* bug reports against
libreoffice have been closed:

  
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?archive=0;ordering=normal;repeatmerged=0;src=libreoffice

Only bug 883734 is open, but this is because it has been reopened.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:12:39 +0200
Vincent Lefevre  wrote:

Hello Vincent,

>Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice

Has all the info you need, and more.  Expect it to be removed from
testing, too.

This is not permanent.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
I'm not here for your entertainment
U & Ur Hand - P!nk


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Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2024-04-17 15:19:26 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 17.04.2024 um 15:12:39 Uhr schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> 
> > Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice
> According to the tracker, it specific release got removed from
> experimental. This is a special repo for testing and should only be
> used by people who want an unstable testing system.
> 
> It is still available in stable and also in unstable.

No, I do not use experimental (except in rare cases, but libreoffice
was not concerned), and (all?) my bug reports against libreoffice have
been closed due to this removal.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Marco Moock]

Am 17.04.2024 um 15:12:39 Uhr schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

> Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libreoffice
According to the tracker, it specific release got removed from
experimental. This is a special repo for testing and should only be
used by people who want an unstable testing system.

It is still available in stable and also in unstable.

-- 
Gruß
Marco

Send unsolicited bulk mail to 1713359559mu...@cartoonies.org

LibreOffice removed from Debian

[Vincent Lefevre]

Is there any reason why LibreOffice has been removed from Debian???

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)