Request for output of commands [WAS Re: AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 02:15:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon
> 
> I did send the bugreport.
> 
> Thank You.
> Did anybody use the rescue mode?
> 
> Regards Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2024 20:36
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org ; Schwibinger 
> Michael 
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:58:41PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon
> > I think
> > maybe Im sure
> > it is because of rescue mode.
> >
> Hi Sophie,
> 
> Once again: we need to you to show us what commands you run.
> 
> We need to see error messages.
> 
> if you cannot run sudo or su, we need you to run the id command
> as previously suggested.
> 

Where is the output of the id command?

The other message you quote suggests that you aren't in the sudo group

*Show the error messages*


> Also - please address requests first to the list and not to individuals -
> it makes it a lot easier to follow on the list.
> 

>From the output of my mailer: you sent first to me, copy to the list -
could you please do this the other way round as requested. It is more
important for the list to see this - and it also means that there is
no personal reply sent to the list by mistake: any personal reply is
intended as such.

> > Normal booting did not have this problem.
> >
> > Anybody familiar with panic?
> >

Yes: a (kernel) panic can have many causes: if you can give us meaningful
responses, we may be able to help. In the absence of these, you only
get guesses - wheich may or may not be helpful.

Again, as previously requested, please use meaningful subjects on your
emails so that we can deal with one issue at a time.

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)


> > Regards
> > Thank You
> > Sophie
> >
> Andy
> >
> > 
> > Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
> > An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > > Good afternoon
> > > Why do I have to open a group?
> > >
> >
> > This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
> > and sudo
> >
> > Running the
> >
> > id
> >
> > command should give you information like
> >
> > uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)
> >
> > which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
> > machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
> > users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.
> >
> > /etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
> > Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
> > modified from Debian defaults)
> >
> > # User privilege specification
> > rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> > %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:
> >
> > @includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> > (END)
> >
> > If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
> > use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
> > (once) to add your user name to the group.
> >
> > For example: adduser sophie sudo
> >
> > I hope this helps
> >
> > > 2 years ago
> > > sudo was no problem.
> > >
> >
> > As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
> > break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
> > how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.
> >
> > Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
> > use their knowledge to help you.
> >
> > With every good wish, as ever,
> >
> > Andy
> > (amaca...@debian.org)
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Sophie
> > >
> > > Thank You
> > > 
> > > Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> > > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> > > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > > Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > > 
> > > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> > > mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > > Thank You
> > > Example
> > > I say
> > >
> > > sudo apt-get install firefox
> > > Reaction LINUX
> > > This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
> > >
> > > This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
> > >
> > > Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> > > groups
> > >
> > > Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will 
> > > need to run it as root.
> > > usermod -a -G sudo 
> > >
> > > I do open root terminal
> > > there its working.
> > > Regards
> > > Sophie
> > >
> > > 
> > > Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
> > > Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> > > An: 

Re: Request about Boot Repair Disk

[Max Nikulin]

On 28/01/2024 01:03, fran...@libero.it wrote:
If I use SuperGrub cd by 
manual booting I can access to debian and boot it. So I used Boort 
Repair Disk 64 to try to repair, but it gave me a report advicing me to 
ask online with that report here under: (it is a long report)


I have no idea concerning these tools

sda1: 
File system: vfat

Boot files: /efi/Boot/bootx64.efi /efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
/efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgr.efi
/efi/Microsoft/Boot/memtest.efi


No efi/debian here despite it looks like an EFI System Partition


efibootmgr -v
No BootOrder is set; firmware will attempt recovery


It should be set and debian installer does it.


df480f092e56b632513b4616bdeade95 sda1/Boot/bootx64.efi


Either mangled output and really it is efi/boot/bootx64.efi, a boot file 
for removable device or some installer put files in a wrong folder. In 
the former case, some firmwares may give this option higher priority.



df480f092e56b632513b4616bdeade95 sda1/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
0a70ebdfe73694eb6188f70e81b47a79 sda1/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgr.efi



Can you help me to obtain to have Grub with the 2 OSes at booting?


Did you have grub-efi-amd64-signed and shim-signed installed? Looks like 
you installed Linux in legacy mode instead of UEFI one.

Re: Request about Boot Repair Disk

[DdB]

Am 27.01.2024 um 19:03 schrieb fran...@libero.it:
> (it is a long report)
This is interesting ... BUT i lack the required experience:
Neither do i use Windows nor a notebook, but i would guess, that the
last paragraph from your report contains the root cause of your problem:

> Please do not forget to make your UEFI firmware boot on the Debian GNU/Linux 
> 12 (bookworm) entry (sda1/efi//shim.efi ( will be updated in the 
> final message) file) !
> If your computer reboots directly into Windows, try to change the boot order 
> in your UEFI firmware.
>  
> If your UEFI firmware does not allow to change the boot order, change the 
> default boot entry of the Windows bootloader.
> For example you can boot into Windows, then type the following command in an 
> admin command prompt:
> bcdedit /set {bootmgr} path \EFI\\shim.efi ( will be updated in 
> the final message) > 

As you already found by yourself, both systems are setup to be bootable
in uefi mode, and uefi by default has some way of making a choice
(either at boot time of through changing the boot order permanently)
GRUB is not strictly necessary for this to happen, but it can be used in
the mix. What would be very good to know, is, how is your firmware
manufactured and what does it allow? How does it cooperate?

If you want to get a better understanding of the UEFI boot process (with
or without grub), i recommend reading the documentation at
https://www.rodsbooks.com/linux-uefi/

good luck

Request about Boot Repair Disk

[frantal]

I have installed Windows 10 on a notebook Asus F552M. Then I installed Debian 
12, but no Grub at reboot only Windows. If I use SuperGrub cd by manual booting 
I can access to debian and boot it. So I used Boort Repair Disk 64 to try to 
repair, but it gave me a report advicing me to ask online with that report here 
under: (it is a long report)

< boot-repair-4ppa125 [20240127_1537]
 
== Boot Info Summary ===
 
=> Grub2 (v2.00) is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks at sector
567169024 of the same hard drive for core.img. core.img is at this
location and looks for (,gpt6)/boot/grub. It also embeds following
components:

modules
---
fshelp ext2 part_gpt biosdisk
---
 
sda1: __
 
File system: vfat
Boot sector type: Windows 8/2012: FAT32
Boot sector info: No errors found in the Boot Parameter Block.
Operating System:
Boot files: /efi/Boot/bootx64.efi /efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
/efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgr.efi
/efi/Microsoft/Boot/memtest.efi
 
sda2: __
 
File system:
Boot sector type: -
Boot sector info:
 
sda3: __
 
File system: ntfs
Boot sector type: Windows 8/2012: NTFS
Boot sector info: No errors found in the Boot Parameter Block.
Operating System: Windows 10
Boot files: /Windows/System32/winload.exe
 
sda4: __
 
File system: ntfs
Boot sector type: Windows 8/2012: NTFS
Boot sector info: No errors found in the Boot Parameter Block.
Operating System:
Boot files:
 
sda5: __
 
File system: BIOS Boot partition
Boot sector type: Grub2's core.img
Boot sector info:
 
sda6: __
 
File system: ext4
Boot sector type: -
Boot sector info:
Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Boot files: /boot/grub/grub.cfg /etc/fstab /etc/default/grub
/boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img
 
sda7: __
 
File system: swap
Boot sector type: -
Boot sector info:
 
sda8: __
 
File system: ext4
Boot sector type: -
Boot sector info:
Operating System:
Boot files:
 

 2 OS detected =
 
OS#1: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm) on sda6
OS#2: Windows 10 on sda3
 
 Architecture/Host Info 
 
CPU architecture: 64-bit
Live-session OS is Ubuntu 64-bit (Boot-Repair-Disk 64bit 20200604, bionic, 
x86_64)
 

= UEFI =
 
BIOS is EFI-compatible, and is setup in EFI-mode for this live-session.
 
efibootmgr -v
No BootOrder is set; firmware will attempt recovery
 
df480f092e56b632513b4616bdeade95 sda1/Boot/bootx64.efi
df480f092e56b632513b4616bdeade95 sda1/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
0a70ebdfe73694eb6188f70e81b47a79 sda1/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgr.efi
 

= Drive/Partition Info =
 
Disks info: 
 
sda : is-GPT, hasBIOSboot, has---ESP, not-usb, not-mmc, has-os, 2048 sectors * 
512 bytes
 
Partitions info (1/3): _
 
sda1 : no-os, 32, nopakmgr, no-docgrub, nogrub, nogrubinstall, no-grubenv, 
noupdategrub, not-far
sda3 : is-os, 32, nopakmgr, no-docgrub, nogrub, nogrubinstall, no-grubenv, 
noupdategrub, farbios
sda4 : no-os, 32, nopakmgr, no-docgrub, nogrub, nogrubinstall, no-grubenv, 
noupdategrub, farbios
sda6 : is-os, 64, apt-get, grub-pc , grub2, grub-install, grubenv-ok, 
update-grub, farbios
sda8 : no-os, 32, nopakmgr, no-docgrub, nogrub, nogrubinstall, no-grubenv, 
noupdategrub, farbios
 
Partitions info (2/3): _
 
sda1 : is---ESP, part-has-no-fstab, no-nt, no-winload, no-recov-nor-hid, 
no-bmgr, notwinboot
sda3 : isnotESP, part-has-no-fstab, no-nt, haswinload, no-recov-nor-hid, 
no-bmgr, notwinboot
sda4 : isnotESP, part-has-no-fstab, no-nt, no-winload, recovery-or-hidden, 
no-bmgr, notwinboot
sda6 : isnotESP, fstab-without-efi, no-nt, no-winload, no-recov-nor-hid, 
no-bmgr, notwinboot
sda8 : isnotESP, part-has-no-fstab, no-nt, no-winload, no-recov-nor-hid, 
no-bmgr, notwinboot
 
Partitions info (3/3): _
 
sda1 : not-sepboot, no-boot, part-has-no-fstab, not-sep-usr, no---usr, 
part-has-no-fstab, std-grub.d, sda
sda3 : 

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[Geert Stappers]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 01:30:44PM +, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool using
> rsync in the back.
> 
> I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the Dutch
> translation of that application. The current state of translation is 92%.

Zo, tweeennegentig procent, dat is een al een heel eind.

 
> We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on Weblate
> and hostet at Codeberg.org.
> 
> 
 
Account aangemaakt, want ik vind  Codeberg een goed iets.

Vertaling van 92% naar 94% gebracht.



> Thanks in advance
> Christian Buhtz
> 
> [1] -- 
> [2] -- 



Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[c.buhtz]

Dear Rogerio,

thanks for your offer.

On 2024-01-19 17:16 "Rogerio R. Silva"  wrote:
> I could help if there are not enough people working on this.
> Please, let me know.

Portuguese is still at 34%. But Brazilian is complete.

Beside translating untranslated strings there is also a need to review
the existing translations via using the "Approve" button.

Please let me know if and how you want to be mentioned in the credits
as a translator. It is up to you if you want to use your real name,
your email or something else.

We do have this file:


That names will be used in the about dialog for example.

Kind
Christian

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[Rogerio R. Silva]

Hi Christian,

I could help if there are not enough people working on this.
Please, let me know.

Best regards,
Rogério

Em sex., 19 de jan. de 2024 às 17:12, Daniel Venturini <
danielventurini...@gmail.com> escreveu:

> Hey
> I'm in
>
> On Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 5:28 PM Joao Mandl  wrote:
>
>> I will help as well.
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 5:22 PM Atenágoras Silva 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd like to help, too.
>>>
>>> Sincerely yours,
>>> Atenágoras
>>>
>>> Em qui., 18 de jan. de 2024 às 13:01, Yuri Musachio <
>>> yuri.musac...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>
 Christian, hi!

 I will do.







 Best,

 On Jan 18 2024, at 8:37 am, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:

 Hello,

 I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool
 using rsync in the back.

 I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the
 Portuguese translation of that application. The current state of
 translation is 23%.

 We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on
 Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.

 

 Thanks in advance
 Christian Buhtz

 [1] -- 
 [2] -- 



-- 
Rogério R. Silva | SCIANTS 
Museu Paraense Emílio Goeldi - MPEG
Depto. Ciências da Terra e Ecologia
Av. Perimetral, 1901 - Terra Firme
66077-830, Belém, PA, Brasil
Fone: +55 91 3221-6446

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[Daniel Venturini]

Hey
I'm in

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 5:28 PM Joao Mandl  wrote:

> I will help as well.
> Thanks
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 5:22 PM Atenágoras Silva 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to help, too.
>>
>> Sincerely yours,
>> Atenágoras
>>
>> Em qui., 18 de jan. de 2024 às 13:01, Yuri Musachio <
>> yuri.musac...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>>
>>> Christian, hi!
>>>
>>> I will do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> On Jan 18 2024, at 8:37 am, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool
>>> using rsync in the back.
>>>
>>> I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the
>>> Portuguese translation of that application. The current state of
>>> translation is 23%.
>>>
>>> We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on
>>> Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> Christian Buhtz
>>>
>>> [1] -- 
>>> [2] -- 
>>>
>>>

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[Joao Mandl]

I will help as well.
Thanks



On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 5:22 PM Atenágoras Silva 
wrote:

> I'd like to help, too.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> Atenágoras
>
> Em qui., 18 de jan. de 2024 às 13:01, Yuri Musachio <
> yuri.musac...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Christian, hi!
>>
>> I will do.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Jan 18 2024, at 8:37 am, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool
>> using rsync in the back.
>>
>> I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the
>> Portuguese translation of that application. The current state of
>> translation is 23%.
>>
>> We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on
>> Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Christian Buhtz
>>
>> [1] -- 
>> [2] -- 
>>
>>

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[Atenágoras Silva]

I'd like to help, too.

Sincerely yours,
Atenágoras

Em qui., 18 de jan. de 2024 às 13:01, Yuri Musachio 
escreveu:

> Christian, hi!
>
> I will do.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> On Jan 18 2024, at 8:37 am, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool
> using rsync in the back.
>
> I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the
> Portuguese translation of that application. The current state of
> translation is 23%.
>
> We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on
> Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.
>
> 
>
> Thanks in advance
> Christian Buhtz
>
> [1] -- 
> [2] -- 
>
>

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[Yuri Musachio]

Christian, hi!

I will do.

Best,
On Jan 18 2024, at 8:37 am, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool
> using rsync in the back.
>
> I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the
> Portuguese translation of that application. The current state of
> translation is 23%.
>
> We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on
> Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.
>
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Christian Buhtz
>
> [1] -- 
> [2] -- 
>

Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool 
using rsync in the back.


I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the Swedish 
translation of that application. The current state of translation is 
47%.


We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on 
Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.




Thanks in advance
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 

Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool 
using rsync in the back.


I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the Dutch 
translation of that application. The current state of translation is 
92%.


We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on 
Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.




Thanks in advance
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 

Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool 
using rsync in the back.


I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the Catalan 
translation of that application. The current state of translation is 
92%.


We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on 
Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.




Thanks in advance
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 

Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool 
using rsync in the back.


I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the 
Portuguese translation of that application. The current state of 
translation is 23%.


We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on 
Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.




Thanks in advance
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 

Re: Request for translation of backup application "Back In Time"

[Adam Sjøgren]

c.bu...@posteo.jp writes:

> We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on
> Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.
>
> 

It says "Insufficient privileges for saving translations." to me.

Here are some translations:

 Backup folder cannot be included.
 Backup-mappe kan ikke inkluderes.

 Backup sub-folder cannot be included.
 Backup-undermappe kan ikke inkluderes.

 Host/User/Profile-ID must not be empty.
 Maskine/Bruger/Profil-ID kan ikke være tom.

 Destination filesystem for {path} is formatted with FAT which doesn't support 
hard-links. Please use a native Linux filesystem.
 Destinationsfilsystem for {path} er formatteret med FAT, som ikke kan håndtere 
hard-links. Brug venligst et understøttet Linux-filsystem.

 Destination filesystem for {path} is an SMB-mounted share. Please make sure 
the remote SMB server supports symlinks or activate {copyLinks} in 
{expertOptions}.
 Destinationsfilsystem for {path} er delt via SMB. Undersøg venligst om SMB 
serveren understøtter symlinks eller aktiver {copyLinks} i {expertOptions}.

 Copy links (dereference symbolic links)
 Kopier links (følg symbolske links)

 Destination filesystem for {path} is an sshfs-mounted share. sshfs doesn't 
support hard-links. Please use mode 'SSH' instead.
 Destinationsfilsystemet for {path} er delt via ssfhs. sshfs understøtter ikke 
hardlinks. Benyt venligst 'SSH' mode i stedet. 

 Failed to write new crontab.
 Kunne ikke skrive ny crontab.

 Could not install Udev rule for profile {profile_id}. DBus Service 
'{dbus_interface}' wasn't available
 Kunne ikke installere Udev regel for profil {profile_id}. DBus Service 
'{dbus_interface}' var ikke tilgængelig

 Failed to save config
 Kunne ikke gemme konfiguration

 Failed to load config
 Kunne ikke læse konfiguration

 The last profile cannot be removed.
 Den sidste profil kan ikke slettes.

 Can't unmount {mountprocess} from {mountpoint}.
 Kan ikke fjerne {mountprocess} fra {mountpoint}.

 {} not found. Please install e.g. {}
 {} ikke fundet. Installér venligst for eksempel {}

 Deferring backup while on battery
 Venter med backup under batteridrift

 Found leftover {snapshot_id} which can be continued.
 Fandt efterladt {snapshot_id} som kan fortsættes med.

 Removing leftover {snapshot_id} folder from last run
 Sletter efterladt {snapshot_id}-mappe fra seneste kørsel

 Success
 Succes

 Partial transfer due to vanished source files (see 'man rsync')
 Delvis overførsel da nogle filer fra kilden er forduftet (se 'man rsync')

 'rsync' ended with exit code {exit_code}
 'rsync' afsluttede med slutværdien {exit_code}

 See 'man rsync' for more details
 Kig i 'man rsync' for flere detaljer

 Negative rsync exit codes are signal numbers, see 'kill -l' and 'man kill'
 Negative rsync slutværdier er signalnumre, se 'kill -l' og 'man kill'

 Nothing changed, no new snapshot necessary
 Ingen ændringer, så et nyt tilstands-billede er ikke nødvendigt

 ssh-agent not found. Please make sure it is installed.
 Kan ikke finde ssh-agent. Sørg venligst for at den er installeret.

 Cipher {cipher} failed for {host}.
 Chiffer {cipher} fungerede ikke for {host}.

 Remote path exists but is not a directory.
 Stien findes i den anden ende, men er ikke en mappe.

 Remote path is not writable.
 Stien i den anden ende er ikke skrivbar.

 Remote path is not executable.
 Stien i den anden ende er ikke eksekverbar.

 Remote host {host} doesn't support {command}
 Den anden maskine {host} understøtter ikke {command}

 Check commands on host {host} returned unknown error
 Check-kommandoerne på vært {host} gav en ukendt fejl

 Remote host {host} doesn't support hardlinks
 Den anden maskine {host} understøtter ikke hardlinks

 Copy public ssh-key "{pubkey}" to remote host "{host}"
 Kopiér offentligt ssh-nøgle "{pubkey}" til vært "{host}"

 This folder doesn't exist
 in the current selected snapshot.
 Denne mappe findes ikke
 i det valgte tilstands-billede.

 Add to Include
 Tilføj til Inkludér

 Add to Exclude
 Tilføj til Spring over

 {appName} is not configured. Would you like to restore a previous 
configuration?
 {appName} er ikke konfigureret. Vil du rulle tilbage til en tidligere 
opsætning?

 Use modification time & size for file change detection.
 Brug ændringstid og størrelse til at opdage filændringer

 Take a snapshot (checksum mode)
 Opret et tilstands-billede (checksum modus)

 Use checksums for file change detection.
 Brug checksummer til at opdage filændringer.

 Pause snapshot process
 Sæt tilstands-afbildning på pause

 Resume snapshot process
 Genoptag tilstands-afbildning

 Stop snapshot process
 Stop tilstands-afbildning

 View last log
 Vis seneste log

 Shutdown
 Luk ned

 Shut down system after snapshot has finished.
 Luk ned når tilstands-billedet er færdiggjort.

 Setup language…
 Sæt sprog op…

 Changelog
 Ændringer

 FAQ
 OSS

 Ask a question
 Stil et spørgsmål

 Translation
 Oversættelse

 Restore the 

Request for translation of backup application "Back In Time"

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool 
using rsync in the back.


I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the Danish 
translation of that application. The current state of translation is at 
28%. Without improvement I need to remove that language in the future.


We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on 
Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.




Thanks in advance
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 
[3] -- 

Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool 
using rsync in the back.


I would like to kindly ask if someone want to contribute to the Polish 
translation of that application. The current state of translation is at 
65%.


We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on 
Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.




Thanks in advance
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 
[3] -- 

Re: Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[Iliana Panagopoulou]

Hello,

I can help with that.
I will start contributing on Webslate as soon as possible.

Thank you,
Iliana Panagopoulou

Στις Τετ 10 Ιαν 2024 στις 2:24 μ.μ., ο/η  έγραψε:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool
> using rsync in the back.
>
> I would like to kindly ask if someone want so contribute to the Greek
> translation of that application. The current state of translation is at
> 26%. Some strings are left for translation and the others should get a
> review of native speakers.
>
> We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on
> Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.
>
>  
>
> Thanks in advance
> Christian Buhtz
>
> [1] -- 
> [2] -- 
> [3] -- 
>


-- 
Ηλιάνα Παναγοπούλου

Request for translation of "Back In Time"

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am upstream maintainer of "Back In Time" [1] [2] a GUI backup tool 
using rsync in the back.


I would like to kindly ask if someone want so contribute to the Greek 
translation of that application. The current state of translation is at 
26%. Some strings are left for translation and the others should get a 
review of native speakers.


We offer a web-based front-end on our translation platform based on 
Weblate and hostet at Codeberg.org.




Thanks in advance
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 
[3] -- 

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Anssi Saari]

Charles Kroeger  writes:

>> If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
>> the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.
>
> https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail
>
> I use this. It is what you want.

I proposed it already but apparently it doesn't do "proper threading".
Just a flat list of messages. In landscape there's an extra column
displayed but it seems you need a tablet to make any sense of that.

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Charles Kroeger]

> If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
> the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.

https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail

I use this. It is what you want.

-- 
CK

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Keith Bainbridge]

I've been using K9 for a while.

It does threading by dropping the thread into a new 'tree' similar to tbird's 
indenting of an open thread in its main tree, but in a side window where I 
scroll the thread and press back arrow when I want to close the thread. 

FairEmail does threading the same way. 
-- 
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithr...@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC+ 10:00

From my Aphone 

On 14 November 2023 8:42:57 am AEDT, jeremy ardley  
wrote:
>
>On 14/11/23 02:30, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>> On 13/11/2023 14:50, Anssi Saari wrote:
>>> The Wanderer  writes:
>>> 
> And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
> proper threading.
 
 If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
 the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.
>>> 
>>> Possibly FairEmail would fit the bill. They advertize "conversation
>>> threading" but I don't really if it's proper or not. The author is
>>> responsive though.
>> 
>> Unfortunately doesn't look like so, this "coversation" threading is what 
>> gmail does, a linear sequence of messages.
>
>
>I use Bluemail on android. It claims to do threading though I don't use it. 
>Bluemail seems competent.

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Stefan Monnier]

> If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
> the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.

The closest I found so far is Fedilab, but:

- While it does provide some threading, it's incomplete.
- It's for the Fediverse rather than for email.


Stefan

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 7:43 AM Brad Rogers  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 12:04:47 +
> Andy Smith  wrote:
>
> Hello Andy,
>
> {gmail web interface}
> > that people put up with that.
>
> If they've always used google (and let's face it, there are plenty of
> people that fall in to that category), then they have no experience
> of anything else and quite possibly know no better.

Forté Agent for the win!

Jeff

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Nicolas George]

jeremy ardley (12023-11-14):
> I use Bluemail on android. It claims to do threading though I don't use it.
> Bluemail seems competent.

A quick search for screenshots on the web leads to the conclusion that
no, Bluemail does not do threading, just linear conversation.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[jeremy ardley]

On 14/11/23 02:30, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

On 13/11/2023 14:50, Anssi Saari wrote:

The Wanderer  writes:


And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
proper threading.


If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a 
thing is

the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.


Possibly FairEmail would fit the bill. They advertize "conversation
threading" but I don't really if it's proper or not. The author is
responsive though.


Unfortunately doesn't look like so, this "coversation" threading is 
what gmail does, a linear sequence of messages.



I use Bluemail on android. It claims to do threading though I don't use 
it. Bluemail seems competent.

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 13/11/2023 14:50, Anssi Saari wrote:

The Wanderer  writes:


And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
proper threading.


If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.


Possibly FairEmail would fit the bill. They advertize "conversation
threading" but I don't really if it's proper or not. The author is
responsive though.


Unfortunately doesn't look like so, this "coversation" threading is what 
gmail does, a linear sequence of messages.


--
"We shall reach greater and greater platitudes of achievement."
-- Richard J. Daley

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Anssi Saari]

The Wanderer  writes:

>> And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
>> proper threading.
>
> If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
> the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.

Possibly FairEmail would fit the bill. They advertize "conversation
threading" but I don't really if it's proper or not. The author is
responsive though.

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[debian-user]

"Susmita/Rajib"  wrote:
> I have been listening to the conversations on my thread begun with my
> post https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00505.html
> 
> In my first email itself I had mentioned that I use "Gmail webmail
> email-server".

So have I, mostly for my amusement.
 
> Yet in one of the replies I received, I get a comment like, "...
> It sounds like whatever you are using to read email (your MUA) is
> not very good. What software are you using for that purpose? You
> mention Gmail, but as far as I know (I am not a Gmail user myself),
> Gmail's web interface does do threading properly ..."
> 
> In these cases I am really concerned by the short attention and memory
> span of some users. I wonder how far they will proceed in their
> professions. I would have read a post thoroughly, ensured that I have
> understood it, then replied. Otherwise, I wouldn't have replied at all
> until I considered myself competent to reply.

Welcome to the real world. You may choose how to behave and others may
choose differently. How they choose to behave here may well be
different to how they behave in other places, for example, so it's
dangerous to extrapolate without further evidence. But people here do
generally try to help those, like you, who come to seek help. The onus
is on those who seek help to be tolerant of those who offer it, and not
to always expect perfection from everybody.

> I am not that tormented by a lack of social interactions that I would
> jump on to a conversation without due diligence just to relieve myself
> of my social isolation.
> 
> There is more garbage that follows from the individual, but I shall
> choose to ignore, and not unnecessarily waste my time on such
> individuals, but prefer to engage with Mr. David, Mr. George, Mr.
> Verdier and other such constructive co-users.

Frankly this is insulting and I suggest you apologize for it.

> To Mr. Rogers, I would say that Gmail and Google were successful
> because they offered plenty of space for all files, including emails,
> to be kept organised in one place. That serves me fine.
> 
> Earlier, I used to use webmail clients that were set up to handle
> IMAP, beginning with thunderbird. For a time, I used claws mail. Then
> as time progressed I found it better and lighter to use the Gmail
> webmail interface accessed from firefox-esr. I seldom had the
> necessity for complex threading options, so I didn't need an email
> client / email reader / Message (or mail) User Agent.

To each their own. You have chosen one path and I happen to have chosen
a different one. I have plenty of space on my own disks for my own
email and everything else, and I prefer to keep it all myself. I use
claws and am happy with it. I use POP3 and am happy with it. I don't
have a google account, nor any social media account, and I don't have
any android phone/device because I don't have a google account. (I
tried using f-droid but found it too limiting). I'm happy with my own
arrangements, just as you are happy with yours.

> There is one problem with Gmail, Mr. Verdier. If I reply to my own
> email, ensuring that I have kept a portion of the header intact, to
> reply to say debian-user@lists..., and changed/added/altered the
> subject line to [solved] or [was ...], and send it, Gmail invariably
> treats that email as a different subject and shows it as a separate
> conversation (or thread, as I say). Yes, I agree with Mr. David to
> better use 'Thread' as 'Conversation' instead.
> 
> In the end, what to me appears to be lacking from Debian side is a
> user(or client) side email interface for us to send emails directly
> to, and configure our settings to optionally receive from, the Debian
> Mailing Lists, bypassing the middleman interface like Gmail webmail.
> There is a native Debian interface for Bug Reporting. But nothing
> more. I might be mistaken in my perception. Please correct me if I am.

Well you can always reply through the Debian web interface. e.g.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00551.html

Or you can use claws as I do. And I'm sure there are many other ways.
But none of the ways involve Debian having to do anything different.

> But a disclaimer: Team Debian, please don't get me wrong: you have
> already done enough for us, or to phrase myself better, we have done
> enough for ourselves already, continuing to have our freedom from the
> constant bombardment of commercial advertisements that we as Android
> users occasionally suffer from.

Speak for yourself. I don't use android.

> Ok, then it appears that I would have to live with this difficulty
> presently until gmail improves its webmail application to something
> like SmartList. If adequate buzz is made on social media, maybe Google
> could buy SmartList or strike some sort of a business deal with it.

Speak for yourself. I don't use social media. Also I have no idea what
SmartList is (please don't enlighten me).

> Thank you for presenting a wider perspective for 

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Andy Smith]

Hi Rajib,

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 08:58:42PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:
> In my first email itself I had mentioned that I use "Gmail webmail
> email-server".
> 
> Yet in one of the replies I received, I get a comment like, "...
> It sounds like whatever you are using to read email (your MUA) is
> not very good. What software are you using for that purpose? You
> mention Gmail, but as far as I know (I am not a Gmail user myself),
> Gmail's web interface does do threading properly ..."
> 
> In these cases I am really concerned by the short attention and memory
> span of some users.

I do not read most of your threads because you begin them by asking
only for responses from "senior list members" and such like. In the
few occasions I have asked you if you ONLY want responses from
those who consider themselves such, you have never replied. So, I
have concluded that most of your messages have not been for me to
read or respond to.

This time around you did not start your email that way, so I read on
and attempted to help you.

In the posts of yours that I have seen, such as the one where you
got an error message from a web server and so decided to install a
bunch of unnecessary PHP and MySQL packages, there are many errors
of terminology and concepts.

I had asked again if you were using the gmail web interface in order
to double check you were really using the webmail as your MUA so we
could establish for sure if the problem was with the gmail web
interface or with some other piece of software. What I've seen of
this and others of your problems require a lot of questions to
establish the basic facts, if anyone is to help you.

> There is more garbage that follows from the individual, but I shall
> choose to ignore, and not unnecessarily waste my time on such
> individuals, but prefer to engage with Mr. David, Mr. George, Mr.
> Verdier and other such constructive co-users.

I have always felt that my responses to you have been constructive,
even when it seemed like you were not doing yourself any favours in
the way you were trying to get help.

I am sad to see that my efforts have been unwelcome and that you
have such a low opinion of me.

I will not bother you again.

At least something useful (to me) did come out of it: I learned that
likely 30%+ of the readers of this list use gmail, and if you edit
an email subject then gmail detaches that email from the
"conversation". I can see why that would be confusing for you, and a
huge percentage of other readers of this list who use such a limited
service.

Regards,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Susmita/Rajib]

I have been listening to the conversations on my thread begun with my
post https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00505.html

In my first email itself I had mentioned that I use "Gmail webmail
email-server".

Yet in one of the replies I received, I get a comment like, "...
It sounds like whatever you are using to read email (your MUA) is
not very good. What software are you using for that purpose? You
mention Gmail, but as far as I know (I am not a Gmail user myself),
Gmail's web interface does do threading properly ..."

In these cases I am really concerned by the short attention and memory
span of some users. I wonder how far they will proceed in their
professions. I would have read a post thoroughly, ensured that I have
understood it, then replied. Otherwise, I wouldn't have replied at all
until I considered myself competent to reply.

I am not that tormented by a lack of social interactions that I would
jump on to a conversation without due diligence just to relieve myself
of my social isolation.

There is more garbage that follows from the individual, but I shall
choose to ignore, and not unnecessarily waste my time on such
individuals, but prefer to engage with Mr. David, Mr. George, Mr.
Verdier and other such constructive co-users.

To Mr. Rogers, I would say that Gmail and Google were successful
because they offered plenty of space for all files, including emails,
to be kept organised in one place. That serves me fine.

Earlier, I used to use webmail clients that were set up to handle
IMAP, beginning with thunderbird. For a time, I used claws mail. Then
as time progressed I found it better and lighter to use the Gmail
webmail interface accessed from firefox-esr. I seldom had the
necessity for complex threading options, so I didn't need an email
client / email reader / Message (or mail) User Agent.

There is one problem with Gmail, Mr. Verdier. If I reply to my own
email, ensuring that I have kept a portion of the header intact, to
reply to say debian-user@lists..., and changed/added/altered the
subject line to [solved] or [was ...], and send it, Gmail invariably
treats that email as a different subject and shows it as a separate
conversation (or thread, as I say). Yes, I agree with Mr. David to
better use 'Thread' as 'Conversation' instead.

In the end, what to me appears to be lacking from Debian side is a
user(or client) side email interface for us to send emails directly
to, and configure our settings to optionally receive from, the Debian
Mailing Lists, bypassing the middleman interface like Gmail webmail.
There is a native Debian interface for Bug Reporting. But nothing
more. I might be mistaken in my perception. Please correct me if I am.

But a disclaimer: Team Debian, please don't get me wrong: you have
already done enough for us, or to phrase myself better, we have done
enough for ourselves already, continuing to have our freedom from the
constant bombardment of commercial advertisements that we as Android
users occasionally suffer from.

Ok, then it appears that I would have to live with this difficulty
presently until gmail improves its webmail application to something
like SmartList. If adequate buzz is made on social media, maybe Google
could buy SmartList or strike some sort of a business deal with it.

Thank you for presenting a wider perspective for me, my fellow
co-users of Debian.

Best wishes.

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-11-13, The Wanderer wrote:

>> And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
>> proper threading.
>
> If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
> the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.

>From f-droid you can get termux and install mutt (or others)

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-11-13 10:57:34 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
> proper threading.

Not sure if that counts, but Mutt in Termux?

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 10:57:34 -0300
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  wrote:

Hello Eduardo,

>It's not only google, I'd say it's the norm, except for "advanced"
>users that use good MUA.

Now *I'm* shocked (like Andy Smith is).  I haven't ever used web mail,
so had no idea.

>And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with 
>proper threading.

Don't read mail on my phone, either.  Thus, have never looked for the
offerings there.  Sounds as though I'd hate it.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
I'm in need of your help now
Burn - Judgement Centre


pgpQ9QDS3gmGr.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 13/11/2023 11:10, The Wanderer wrote:

On 2023-11-13 at 08:57, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

It's not only google, I'd say it's the norm, except for "advanced"
users that use good MUA.

And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
proper threading.


If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.


There's ProfiMail Go 
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lonelycatgames.PM). 
Seems to be still installable, but it's old and not really maintained 
anymore. Occasionally I stumble on some minor bug, but it's usable.


--
The pollution's at that awkward stage.  Too thick to navigate and too
thin to cultivate.
-- Doug Sneyd

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Nicolas George]

Stefan Monnier (12023-11-13):
> IIUC most people have never seen real threading :-(

There is real threading:

 N   11-13 Susmita/Rajib(1.5K) Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of 
Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023
 N   11-13 Susmita/Rajib(0.6K) ├─>
 N   11-13 Michel Verdier   (0.8K) ├─>
 N   11-13 Andy Smith   (1.9K) └─>
 N   11-13 David(0.9K)   └─>
 N   11-13 Andy Smith   (0.7K) └─>
 N   11-13 Stefan Monnier   (0.4K)   ├─>
 Ns  11-13 Brad Rogers  (1.4K)   └─>
 N   11-13 Eduardo M KALINOWSKI (0.7K) └─>
 Ns  11-13 The Wanderer (2.2K)   └─>

And then there is good threading:

/o
   |-o
   o-o-o-o-o-o-@
  \o

Or, with a more complex thread:

  /o
 |-o
 |-o-o-o
 |  /o
 | |  /o-o
 o-o-o-o-o-o-o-@-o
 | |   |-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
 | |\o-o-o-o
 | | |  \o-o-o
 | |  \o-o
 |  \o
 |-o-o
 |  /o
 | |/o
 | |   |/o-o
 | |   |   |-o
 | |   |   |  /o-o-o-o-o
 | |   |   | |  \o-o-o
 | |   |   | |-o
 | |   |   | |  /o-o-o
 | |   |   | | |-o-o
 | |   |   | | |  /o-o
  \o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
\o-o-o

I am sad that so few software implement this one.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[The Wanderer]

On 2023-11-13 at 08:57, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

> On 13/11/2023 09:31, Brad Rogers wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 12:04:47 + Andy Smith 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Andy,
>> 
>> {gmail web interface}
>>> that people put up with that.
>> 
>> If they've always used google (and let's face it, there are plenty
>> of people that fall in to that category), then they have no
>> experience of anything else and quite possibly know no better.
> 
> It's not only google, I'd say it's the norm, except for "advanced"
> users that use good MUA.
> 
> And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
> proper threading.

If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 13/11/2023 09:31, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 12:04:47 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

Hello Andy,

{gmail web interface}

that people put up with that.


If they've always used google (and let's face it, there are plenty of
people that fall in to that category), then they have no experience
of anything else and quite possibly know no better.


It's not only google, I'd say it's the norm, except for "advanced" users 
that use good MUA.


And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with 
proper threading.


--
"Humor is a drug which it's the fashion to abuse."
-- William Gilbert

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Stefan Monnier]

> Wow. I'm genuinely shocked it is so bad and that people put up with
> that.

IIUC most people have never seen real threading :-(
Worse, when I showed it to some non-techie users they didn't like it.

Whether it's a kind of Stockholm syndrome or not is hard to tell.
I suspect we'd have to convince Outlook or Gmail developers to provide
real threading and advertise it as a major new feature in order to find
out.


Stefan

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 12:04:47 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

Hello Andy,

{gmail web interface}
> that people put up with that.

If they've always used google (and let's face it, there are plenty of
people that fall in to that category), then they have no experience
of anything else and quite possibly know no better.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
It's only bits of plastic, lines projected on the wall
Keep It Clean - The Vibrators


pgps28bkTXXkZ.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:48:31AM +, David wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 at 11:29, Andy Smith  wrote:
> > It is only the most inept of MUAs that fail to use these headers
> > and rely only on the Subject: header being the same.
> 
> Agreed. But that's what the Gmail web interface has always done
> since its introduction. It is what it is.

Wow. I'm genuinely shocked it is so bad and that people put up with
that. But on the other hand, comparatively few people use email a
lot.

So I guess Rajib's answer is, "put up with it or use a decent MUA
that talks to Gmail through IMAP or whatever."

Apologies for the misinformation, and thanks for the correction.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[David]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 at 11:29, Andy Smith  wrote:

> but as far as I know (I am not a Gmail user myself),
> Gmail's web interface does do threading properly

Hi,

The Gmail web interface does not display emails as threads, by design [1].

"""A conversation breaks off into a new conversation if the subject line
changes or the conversation gets to more than 100 emails."""

It groups messages together ("a conversation") if their subject lines are
similar, without any visual representation of the relationships expressed
by the "In-reply-to" headers.

> It is only the most inept of MUAs that fail to use these headers
> and rely only on the Subject: header being the same.

Agreed. But that's what the Gmail web interface has always done
since its introduction. It is what it is.

I hope this helps, but I have nothing further to add to this thread.

[1] https://support.google.com/mail/answer/5900

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:36:33AM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:
> May please the concerned portions of
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00443.html be perused,
> as a part of my conversation with Mr. Cater, also quoted below:
> 
> "... There is one problem with this approach, as stated earlier. For the
> Mailing list, any change of subject from my Gmail webmail email-server
> makes such an email detached from the main thread and treats it as a
> different subject.

How email threads are visualised is a matter for your mail reading
software, commonly referred to as your Mail User Agent (MUA). This
software reads various headers in the email to determine where in a
thread that particular message belongs. These headers include
"In-Reply-To:" and "References:". That permits the MUA to see the
relationship between messages even when the subject line changes,

It is only the most inept of MUAs that fail to use these headers
and rely only on the Subject: header being the same.

It sounds like whatever you are using to read email (your MUA) is
not very good. What software are you using for that purpose? You
mention Gmail, but as far as I know (I am not a Gmail user myself),
Gmail's web interface does do threading properly, so if you were
using that I don't think you would have such problems.

Are you using Gmail's web interface or some other MUA that talks to
Gmail perhaps by IMAP protocol?

> Mailman also had(sic) an email editor for
> posting messages, that would have been a better option.

Your issue has nothing to do with Mailman. The Debian lists don't
use Mailman. The Debian lists use MHonArc to generate a web archive
of messages (as you linked above) for the convenience of browsing
outside of an MUA, search engines, etc. Your issue is not with
MHonArc but with whatever software you use to read email.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-11-13, Susmita/Rajib wrote:

> "... There is one problem with this approach, as stated earlier. For the
> Mailing list, any change of subject from my Gmail webmail email-server
> makes such an email detached from the main thread and treats it as a
> different subject.

I am not sure to understand your problem. But standard mail clients do
threading not on subject but on the header In-Reply-To. It permits to add
"solved", "was", or other tags to the subject. It also permits to attach
a reply to some lower place in the thread, which makes easier reading.

> "... Between the two options therefore, I usually choose to keep all the
> posts consolidated within a single thread for the future users. I hope
> that with your greater experience, expertise and wisdom, you would be
> able to guide me in this regard, w.r.t. gmail and Mailman."

Yes : drop gmail.

Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Susmita/Rajib]

Apologies for the inadvertent typo. Corrigendum:

May the phrase:

"... MHonArc is only about conversion of our emails into
cross-linked email format  ..."

Be read as

"... MHonArc is only about conversion of our emails into
cross-linked HTML format ..."

-- 
__
*Inspiration*
Euclid Must Fall:
The “Pythagorean” “Theorem” and the rant of racist and civilizational
superiority
Prof C K Raju
https://doi.org/10.4314/ajct.v1i2.5
https://dx.doi.org/10.4314/ajct.v1i1.6

*A few innovations*
IN191986B
http://viXra.org/abs/2301.0140, abs/2301.0147, /abs/2302.0023, ⋯,

Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Susmita/Rajib]

May please the concerned portions of
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00443.html be perused,
as a part of my conversation with Mr. Cater, also quoted below:

"... There is one problem with this approach, as stated earlier. For the
Mailing list, any change of subject from my Gmail webmail email-server
makes such an email detached from the main thread and treats it as a
different subject. Had Mailman also had(sic) an email editor for
posting messages, that would have been a better option.

"However, I understand the difficulties and the legalities associated
with this added functionality and acknowledge the associated problems ..."

and

"... Between the two options therefore, I usually choose to keep all the
posts consolidated within a single thread for the future users. I hope
that with your greater experience, expertise and wisdom, you would be
able to guide me in this regard, w.r.t. gmail and Mailman."

I assume that MHonArc is only about conversion of our emails into
cross-linked email format and plays no other role on this issue.
Please correct me if I am incorrect.

As said, please advise and guide me on this issue.

Best wishes,
Rajib
Etc.


__
*Inspiration*
Euclid Must Fall:
The “Pythagorean” “Theorem” and the rant of racist and civilizational
superiority
Prof C K Raju
https://doi.org/10.4314/ajct.v1i2.5
https://dx.doi.org/10.4314/ajct.v1i1.6

*A few innovations*
IN191986B
http://viXra.org/abs/2301.0140, abs/2301.0147, /abs/2302.0023, ⋯,

Re: Request to Establish a Debian Mirror Server for Bangladeshi Users

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:51 AM Md Shehab  wrote:
>
> I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to propose the establishment 
> of a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh
>
> I am confident that a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh would be a valuable 
> resource for the local tech community
>
> I would like to request your support for this proposal. I am open to any 
> suggestions or feedback you may have.

See <https://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror> and
<https://www.debian.org/CD/mirroring/>. The pages provide the
instructions for you to host a mirror, how to get added to the list of
mirrors, the mailing list for mirror operators, etc.

Jeff

Re: Request to Establish a Debian Mirror Server for Bangladeshi Users

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

On Wed, Nov 08, 2023 at 10:10:51AM +0600, Md Shehab wrote:
> Dear Debian Community,
> 
> I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to propose the establishment
> of a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh
> I am confident that a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh would be a
> valuable resource for the local tech community
> 
> I would like to request your support for this proposal. I am open to any
> suggestions or feedback you may have.
> 
> Thank you for your time and consideration.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Shehab Uddin

There is LUG in Bangladesh? Nice to meet you Shehab!

Sincrely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

Re: Request to Establish a Debian Mirror Server for Bangladeshi Users

[Richard Hector]

On 8/11/23 17:10, Md Shehab wrote:

Dear Debian Community,

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to propose the 
establishment of a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh


I am confident that a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh would be a 
valuable resource for the local tech community


I would like to request your support for this proposal. I am open to any 
suggestions or feedback you may have.


I suggest starting by reading here:

https://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror

Cheers,
Richard

Request to Establish a Debian Mirror Server for Bangladeshi Users

[Md Shehab]

Dear Debian Community,

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to propose the establishment
of a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh
I am confident that a Debian mirror server in Bangladesh would be a
valuable resource for the local tech community

I would like to request your support for this proposal. I am open to any
suggestions or feedback you may have.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Shehab Uddin

Re: Debian Wiki IP Address Unban Request

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 05:02:22PM -0400, Oliver Wenston wrote:
> I purchased a vps to use as my vpn server, and found out that it was black
> listed from the https://wiki.debian.org/ website. I am currently using
> Bookworm, and would love to be able to visit the wiki with my vpn.
> 
> Who should I contact next on a private channel to get my IP unbanned? Thank
> you very much.

>From :

Access to wiki.debian.org is blocked with 403 Forbidden

Please mail w...@debian.org with your IP address 

Debian Wiki IP Address Unban Request

[Oliver Wenston]

Dear Debian mailing list,

I purchased a vps to use as my vpn server, and found out that it was black
listed from the https://wiki.debian.org/ website. I am currently using
Bookworm, and would love to be able to visit the wiki with my vpn.

Who should I contact next on a private channel to get my IP unbanned? Thank
you very much.

Best regards,
Oliver

Please could we calm down? [WAS List administrators - request]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

People,

I'm not claiming any huge authority here: I'm a volunteer here and a reader
and contributor.

Recent threads have got out of hand, at least in part.

It is *really helpful* to be constructive and to try and put yourself in
someone else's place. There have been long rambling threads, some degree
of discontent and personal attacks. 

These don't help those reading this list for the first time. They don't help
the reputation of this list for long rambling threads that don't go anywhere.
They don't help people who actually come here seeking help for a Debian
problem.

Can I ask people to reconsider immediate responses to threads if you can
avoid it - sit on your hands for six hours or so and see if anyone else
jumps in before adding more UNLESS you can help someone immediately.

I post the FAQ every month in an effort to explain how this list might work.
Debian is odd because we still use mailing lists. Not everyone knows
to avoid top-posting, how to formulate a clear reply.

The Code of Conduct applies here as elsewhere in Debian: try and make this
a welcoming, useful place. You never know who you might help or who might
be driven away by someone's bad attitude.

Can we try this for a couple of days, please? If you can't add help 
immediately,maybe wait?

With thanks for your consideration

Andy

Andy Cater

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[davidson]

ect link once again. <-- This person, it would seem, is reading
messages as a SEQUENCE, not as a TREE. (Because the tree makes
clear to whom each message is a reply.)
  [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00360.html

(The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)

And then yet another person chimes in to thank the poster of the
correct MUA list link. And then he follows up, informing us all
that he has just realised (from reading debian-user, not from
examination of the link's target) that this (correct) link has been
subsequently discovered to be incorrect.
  [6] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00381.html
  [7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00382.html


You should be very careful with your systematic lies and false
accusations on this list.


Bret, if you examine the links I provided (and which remain quoted
above) to messages publicly archived, and which substantiate each of
my descriptions, I believe you will discover that my descriptions were
reasonably accurate.

Furthermore, I have accused nobody of wrongdoing.


I am the person who posted the wrong URL for the pine users mailing
list,


You posted this message,

  [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00341.html

which contains this link to a page for a mailing list devoted to the
Alpine MUA:

  http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

But it was NOT you who posted this message,

  [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html

which contains the following link, to a wiki page containing a list of
links for managing subscriptions to various mailing lists related to
the Alpine Linux operating system:

  https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux:Mailing_lists


and I explicitly apologised for it,


You did indeed make that apology.

Presumably you did so because you were confused about whom Greg was
addressing when he pointed out, in reply to the author of [3], that
the link in [3] was not responsive to the request in [1] (above).


and, posted the correct URL for the pine users mailing list.


Indeed you did. You did so in this message, wherein you make your
apology,

  [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00360.html

and which provides this link

  https://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

which is identical to the link you provided in [2], modulo the URL
scheme.


This list has people far more knowledgeable and skilled than me,
especially regarding what can be done across and beyond the
Internet, and, if, through your misconduct on this list, you upset
them, and they decide to retaliate, you could find your life outside
this mailing list, destroyed.


My dear imaginative antipodean fellow, I am sorry to report that I
have 99 problems, and that provoking the ire of some underground
debian ninja cabal is not one of them.


So, I would be careful of your malicious behaviour on this list, if
I was you.


It is not malice that has prompted me to take this time to repeat
myself so carefully, in this final effort to dispel your evident
confusion.

--
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[davidson]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 Jeffrey Walton wrote:

On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 4:33 PM davidson  wrote:

[...]
Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
 [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html

Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
is illuminating.
 [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html
[...]
(The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)


What would you have me say? Greg made the correction.


I laid out the details of the process leading to the three-car
miscommunication pileup because it serves as a handy illustrative
example, in response to a question about whether knowledge of thread
structure could affect participant decisions.

Description, not prescription. I'm not here to tell consenting adults
what to do.


Do you really need more fodder from me?


Nope. For my part I am fully up to speed.

But have you noticed the other fellow in this thread, who is now
calling me a malicious liar for giving you all the credit, and openly
fantasising about how underground debian justice-league ninjas are
about to break into my house, delete my account, and swap the taps in
my shower?

Looks like I'm in for a real Amélie Poulain job, it does. But the
joke's on him; I get the taps confused every time anyways, so at worst
I won't notice a thing.


But I'll give you what you want...


I'm not a priest. And, just for the record since you seem to have read
me otherwise, I happen to think everyone's behavior so far has been
pretty normal human behavior, given reasonable assumptions about what
each knew at the time of their respective contributions.

The sheer normality of it is what makes it a good example, and perfect
comedy.


I sincerely apologize for posting an incorrect link to an Alpine
mailing list.  I am so sorry I troubled you for it.  I hope you can
find it in your heart to forgive me for the transgression, and the
inconvenience I caused to all members of the list.


I welcome your evident sarcasm here as a sign that we both agree that
the miscommunication event in question was a very normal one.

--
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Bret Busby]

On 14/8/23 03:36, davidson wrote:

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 Andy Smith wrote:

Hello,

On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 12:12:49AM +, davidson wrote:

The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
irrelevant to my interests


Unfortunately no matter how advanced your MUA is, it doesn't help
against prolific posters who derail nearly every thread with copious
amounts of irrelevance and outright false information.


This is a higher bar than merely neutralising the disruption (to one's
own use of the list) caused by a popular thread that one has little
interest in.

And here, my instincts are screaming "Leave it here. Stop now. Leave
well enough alone for the sake of all that is holy!"

However, and speaking only for myself, I'll bite:

Being able to see a thread's messages structured as a tree of message
headers (author, subject) can indeed help me infer quite a bit about
what's going on, before I bother to dig in and actually read any of
the messages' content.

For example, let P and Q be two regularly prolific participants, P
with exceptionally high signal-to-noise contributions, and Q a hot
willfully clueless mess. If there is a branch of the tree that is just
a chain of back-and-forth between P and Q --Q.P.Q.P.Q...-- then I know
what's going on in there and so some OTHER branch will be my first
destination, unless I'm in the mood for a laugh.


You can easily see from looking at most of the large threads here,
the points at which they go off the rails and the common factors
involved there.


I can indeed. Without seeing the tree structure, I do not think it
would be so easy to see.


It is a difficult problem to solve as mailing lists like this tend
to promote a volume-wins approach,


You may be correct, but this isn't clear to me. (Unless the object of
the game is to annoy the greatest number of participants.)


and the baseline user will not have an advanced MUA nor necessarily
the experience to know that they're reading nonsense.


When I conquer the world, you will know because /etc/motd will contain
something like this:

   Don't enter commands you don't understand, and you won't understand
   the commands unless you read the manual. If you read the manual, you
   STILL may not understand the commands. Nevertheless, keep trying,
   Curious Human. We are rooting for you!


Things get easier when you use an advanced MUA, so people should
invest the time to do so, but let's not pretend that this will avoid
a mega-thread next time some outlandish thread hijack by one of the
usual suspects happens.


My point was simply this: threads I've lost interest in (regardless of
size) are a single line in my mailbox, provided I do not delete its
initial message.


Does this particular thread go much better if you assume that
everyone participating (except the OP, who doesn't know how to
unsubscribe, or how to spell it) is fully competent at efficiently
managing email but still posts as they posted?


Funnily enough, if you look carefully, you can see some utterly
slapstick confusion of that very nature in this thread, over who is to
blame for posting a red-herring link to the Alpine Linux distro
mailing list:

%<--
 18159 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) . UNUBSCRIBE
 ...   ......   ......
[1] 18192 Yesterday  fjd   (7K) .   |   \-Alpine was
[2] 18193 Yesterday  Bret Busby(8K) .   | |-Re: Alpi
[6] 18194  5:55  fjd   (7K) | | |-Re: Al
[7] 18195  6:11  fjd   (8K) | | \-Re: Al
[3] 18196 Yesterday  Jeffrey Walton(7K) .   | \-Re: Alpi
[4] 18197 Yesterday  Greg Wooledge (5K) .   |   \-Re: Al
[5] 18198  2:41  Bret Busby(9K) .   | \-Re:
 18199 Yesterday  David Wright  (6K) |   
\-Re
-->%

Somebody requests a link to an alpine MUA forum or mailing list.
  [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00333.html

Somebody posts a link to an alpine MUA mailing list.
  [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00341.html

Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
  [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html

Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
is illuminating.
  [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html

And then the person who had posted the CORRECT link in the first place
apologises for posting the wrong one, and posts the very same correct
link once again. <-- This 

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 4:33 PM davidson  wrote:
> [...]
> Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
> the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
>  [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html
>
> Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
> have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
> is illuminating.
>  [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html
> [...]
> (The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)

What would you have me say? Greg made the correction. Do you really
need more fodder from me?

But I'll give you what you want... I sincerely apologize for posting
an incorrect link to an Alpine mailing list. I am so sorry I troubled
you for it. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for the
transgression, and the inconvenience I caused to all members of the
list.

Jeff

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[davidson]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 12:12:49AM +, davidson wrote:
>> The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
>> threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
>> irrelevant to my interests
>
> Unfortunately no matter how advanced your MUA is, it doesn't help
> against prolific posters who derail nearly every thread with copious
> amounts of irrelevance and outright false information.

This is a higher bar than merely neutralising the disruption (to one's
own use of the list) caused by a popular thread that one has little
interest in.

And here, my instincts are screaming "Leave it here. Stop now. Leave
well enough alone for the sake of all that is holy!"

However, and speaking only for myself, I'll bite:

Being able to see a thread's messages structured as a tree of message
headers (author, subject) can indeed help me infer quite a bit about
what's going on, before I bother to dig in and actually read any of
the messages' content.

For example, let P and Q be two regularly prolific participants, P
with exceptionally high signal-to-noise contributions, and Q a hot
willfully clueless mess. If there is a branch of the tree that is just
a chain of back-and-forth between P and Q --Q.P.Q.P.Q...-- then I know
what's going on in there and so some OTHER branch will be my first
destination, unless I'm in the mood for a laugh.

> You can easily see from looking at most of the large threads here,
> the points at which they go off the rails and the common factors
> involved there.

I can indeed. Without seeing the tree structure, I do not think it
would be so easy to see.

> It is a difficult problem to solve as mailing lists like this tend
> to promote a volume-wins approach,

You may be correct, but this isn't clear to me. (Unless the object of
the game is to annoy the greatest number of participants.)

> and the baseline user will not have an advanced MUA nor necessarily
> the experience to know that they're reading nonsense.

When I conquer the world, you will know because /etc/motd will contain
something like this:

  Don't enter commands you don't understand, and you won't understand
  the commands unless you read the manual. If you read the manual, you
  STILL may not understand the commands. Nevertheless, keep trying,
  Curious Human. We are rooting for you!

> Things get easier when you use an advanced MUA, so people should
> invest the time to do so, but let's not pretend that this will avoid
> a mega-thread next time some outlandish thread hijack by one of the
> usual suspects happens.

My point was simply this: threads I've lost interest in (regardless of
size) are a single line in my mailbox, provided I do not delete its
initial message.

> Does this particular thread go much better if you assume that
> everyone participating (except the OP, who doesn't know how to
> unsubscribe, or how to spell it) is fully competent at efficiently
> managing email but still posts as they posted?

Funnily enough, if you look carefully, you can see some utterly
slapstick confusion of that very nature in this thread, over who is to
blame for posting a red-herring link to the Alpine Linux distro
mailing list:

%<--
18159 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) . UNUBSCRIBE
...   ......   ......
[1] 18192 Yesterday  fjd   (7K) .   |   \-Alpine was
[2] 18193 Yesterday  Bret Busby(8K) .   | |-Re: Alpi
[6] 18194  5:55  fjd   (7K) | | |-Re: Al
[7] 18195  6:11  fjd   (8K) | | \-Re: Al
[3] 18196 Yesterday  Jeffrey Walton(7K) .   | \-Re: Alpi
[4] 18197 Yesterday  Greg Wooledge (5K) .   |   \-Re: Al
[5] 18198  2:41  Bret Busby(9K) .   | \-Re:
18199 Yesterday  David Wright  (6K) |   \-Re
-->%

Somebody requests a link to an alpine MUA forum or mailing list.
 [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00333.html

Somebody posts a link to an alpine MUA mailing list.
 [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00341.html

Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
 [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html

Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
is illuminating.
 [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html

And then the person who had posted the CORRECT link in the first place
apologises for posting the wrong one, and posts the very same correct
link once again. <-- This person, it would 

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 12:12:49AM +, davidson wrote:
> The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
> threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
> irrelevant to my interests

Unfortunately no matter how advanced your MUA is, it doesn't help
against prolific posters who derail nearly every thread with copious
amounts of irrelevance and outright false information.

You can easily see from looking at most of the large threads here,
the points at which they go off the rails and the common factors
involved there.

It is a difficult problem to solve as mailing lists like this tend
to promote a volume-wins approach, and the baseline user will not
have an advanced MUA nor necessarily the experience to know that
they're reading nonsense.

Things get easier when you use an advanced MUA, so people should
invest the time to do so, but let's not pretend that this will avoid
a mega-thread next time some outlandish thread hijack by one of the
usual suspects happens. Does this particular thread go much better if
you assume that everyone participating (except the OP, who doesn't
know how to unsubscribe, or how to spell it) is fully competent at
efficiently managing email but still posts as they posted?

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Sorting messages by threads - was - Re: List administrators - request for intervention

[Bret Busby]

On 13/8/23 08:12, davidson wrote:

On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 Bret Busby wrote:
[snip]

Hello.

Could the List administrators please shut down both this thread and 
the "unubscribe" thread?


In alpine, I have a filter rule that moves all debian-user messages
from my inbox to a dedicated folder.

Here is a sample of what I see in alpine, when I view the contents of
that mail folder, in threaded mode with threads collapsed:

%<--
     18284  9:42  Hans  (7K)   Re: 
libkscreenlocker5:
   N 18285 Yesterday  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Crosshairs in 
gimp 2.1
   N 18288 15:45  Erwan David   (8K) > Swap size in 
debain 12
     18292 12:35  Greg Wooledge (7K)   Re: Mailing 
list unsub
* N 18293 Wednesday  Carl Fink (6K) > Sound loses my 
analog *   18298 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) > UNUBSCRIBE
   N 18332 11:44  Piscium   (7K) > Cannot 
install Debian
   N 18339 13:45  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Time stamps 
on session
*   18342 14:49  gene heskett  (6K) > setting up 
network wit

-->%

All 34 messages (at this time) to the UNUBSCRIBE thread are collapsed;
only the OP's initial message is visible. As long as I retain the
thread-initial message, subsequent contributions to that thread will
be invisible, in this collapsed view.

If a thread interests me, say Carl Fink's, I can expand it:

%<--
     18284  9:42  Hans  (7K)   Re: 
libkscreenlocker5:
   N 18285 Yesterday  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Crosshairs in 
gimp 2.1
   N 18288 15:45  Erwan David   (8K) > Swap size in 
debain 12
     18292 12:35  Greg Wooledge (7K)   Re: Mailing 
list unsub
*   18293 Wednesday  Carl Fink (6K) . Sound loses my 
analog *   18294 Thursday   Marco (5K) . \-Re: 
Sound loses my a
     18295 Yesterday  Carl Fink    (30K) .   \-Re: Sound 
loses my
     18296  5:05  Marco (5K) . \-Re: 
Sound loses
   N 18297 14:49  Carl Fink (6K) \-Re: 
Sound lose

*   18298 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) > UNUBSCRIBE
   N 18332 11:44  Piscium   (7K) > Cannot 
install Debian
   N 18339 13:45  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Time stamps 
on session
*   18342 14:49  gene heskett  (6K) > setting up 
network wit

-->%

But if a thread does *not* interest me, I don't expand it, and then
the only visible effect of subsequent contributions to that thread is
to promote the thread down the list (since threads nearer the bottom
are more recently active).




[snip]
So, please, shut the two threads down, so the mailing list can return 
to the subject matter for which the list was created and is 
maintained; discussion of the use of Debian, and, seeking help with 
the operating system, and, not the extraneous (extreme euphemism) 
"stuff", that has arisen, like a living, growing, cesspool.


The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
irrelevant to my interests: I view debian-user in threaded mode with
collapsed threads, and simply do not expand the ones that don't
concern me.

I believe these are the config settings I use to enable this:

     ...
     [X]  Thread Sorts by Arrival
     ...
     Sort Key  =
     Set    Sort Options
     ---  --
     ( )  Subject
     ( )  Arrival
     ( )  From
     ( )  To
     ( )  Cc
     ( )  Date
     ( )  siZe
     ( )  OrderedSubj
     ( )  scorE
     (*)  tHread
     ( )  Reverse Subject
     ( )  Reverse Arrival
     ( )  Reverse From
     ( )  Reverse To
     ( )  Reverse Cc
     ( )  Reverse Date
     ( )  Reverse siZe
     ( )  Reverse OrderedSubj
     ( )  Reverse scorE
     ( )  Reverse tHread
     ...
     Threading Display Style   =
     Set    Rule Values
     ---  --
     ( )  none
     (*)  show-thread-structure    (default)
     ( )  mutt-like
     ( )  indent-subject-1
     ( )  indent-subject-2
     ( )  indent-from-1
     ( )  indent-from-2
     ( )  show-structure-in-from
     ...
     Threading Index Style =
     Set    Rule Values
 

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 10:18 AM Andrew M.A. Cater  wrote:
> [...]
> No one of us is perfect: the temptation to just add a bit more when you
> are irritated or something is wrong on the internet can be very strong.
>
> Obligatory xkcd cartoon: https://xkcd.com/386

Yeah, some threads refuse to die. Some folks just won't let things go.
Other folks just ignore what they are told, which causes everyone to
repeat themselves. And then there's the hydras - threads that spawn
multiple threads that won't die. Ugh...

I'm subscribed to a lot of lists. I think debian-users is the worst
when it comes to run-on threads.

Jeff

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[davidson]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 davidson wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 Bret Busby wrote:
> [snip]
>> Hello.
>> 
>> Could the List administrators please shut down both this thread and the 
>> "unubscribe" thread?
>
> In alpine, I have a filter rule that moves all debian-user messages
> from my inbox to a dedicated folder.
>
> Here is a sample of what I see in alpine, when I view the contents of
> that mail folder, in threaded mode with threads collapsed:

Flowed text garbled the snapshots a little.

%<--
18284  9:42  Hans  (7K)   Re: libkscreenlocker5:
  N 18285 Yesterday  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Crosshairs in gimp 2.1
  N 18288 15:45  Erwan David   (8K) > Swap size in debain 12
18292 12:35  Greg Wooledge (7K)   Re: Mailing list unsub
* N 18293 Wednesday  Carl Fink (6K) > Sound loses my analog 
*   18298 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) > UNUBSCRIBE
  N 18332 11:44  Piscium   (7K) > Cannot install Debian
  N 18339 13:45  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Time stamps on session
*   18342 14:49  gene heskett  (6K) > setting up network wit
-->%

%<--
18284  9:42  Hans  (7K)   Re: libkscreenlocker5:
  N 18285 Yesterday  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Crosshairs in gimp 2.1
  N 18288 15:45  Erwan David   (8K) > Swap size in debain 12
18292 12:35  Greg Wooledge (7K)   Re: Mailing list unsub
*   18293 Wednesday  Carl Fink (6K) . Sound loses my analog 
*   18294 Thursday   Marco (5K) . \-Re: Sound loses my a
18295 Yesterday  Carl Fink(30K) .   \-Re: Sound loses my
18296  5:05  Marco (5K) . \-Re: Sound loses
  N 18297 14:49  Carl Fink (6K) \-Re: Sound lose
*   18298 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) > UNUBSCRIBE
  N 18332 11:44  Piscium   (7K) > Cannot install Debian
  N 18339 13:45  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Time stamps on session
*   18342 14:49  gene heskett  (6K) > setting up network wit
-->%

-- 
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[davidson]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 Bret Busby wrote:
[snip]

Hello.

Could the List administrators please shut down both this thread and the 
"unubscribe" thread?


In alpine, I have a filter rule that moves all debian-user messages
from my inbox to a dedicated folder.

Here is a sample of what I see in alpine, when I view the contents of
that mail folder, in threaded mode with threads collapsed:

%<--
18284  9:42  Hans  (7K)   Re: libkscreenlocker5:
  N 18285 Yesterday  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Crosshairs in gimp 2.1
  N 18288 15:45  Erwan David   (8K) > Swap size in debain 12
18292 12:35  Greg Wooledge (7K)   Re: Mailing list unsub
* N 18293 Wednesday  Carl Fink (6K) > Sound loses my analog 
*   18298 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) > UNUBSCRIBE

  N 18332 11:44  Piscium   (7K) > Cannot install Debian
  N 18339 13:45  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Time stamps on session
*   18342 14:49  gene heskett  (6K) > setting up network wit
-->%

All 34 messages (at this time) to the UNUBSCRIBE thread are collapsed;
only the OP's initial message is visible. As long as I retain the
thread-initial message, subsequent contributions to that thread will
be invisible, in this collapsed view.

If a thread interests me, say Carl Fink's, I can expand it:

%<--
18284  9:42  Hans  (7K)   Re: libkscreenlocker5:
  N 18285 Yesterday  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Crosshairs in gimp 2.1
  N 18288 15:45  Erwan David   (8K) > Swap size in debain 12
18292 12:35  Greg Wooledge (7K)   Re: Mailing list unsub
*   18293 Wednesday  Carl Fink (6K) . Sound loses my analog 
*   18294 Thursday   Marco (5K) . \-Re: Sound loses my a

18295 Yesterday  Carl Fink(30K) .   \-Re: Sound loses my
18296  5:05  Marco (5K) . \-Re: Sound loses
  N 18297 14:49  Carl Fink (6K) \-Re: Sound lose
*   18298 Thursday   glenn green   (6K) > UNUBSCRIBE
  N 18332 11:44  Piscium   (7K) > Cannot install Debian
  N 18339 13:45  pe...@easthope.ca (6K) > Time stamps on session
*   18342 14:49  gene heskett  (6K) > setting up network wit
-->%

But if a thread does *not* interest me, I don't expand it, and then
the only visible effect of subsequent contributions to that thread is
to promote the thread down the list (since threads nearer the bottom
are more recently active).




[snip]
So, please, shut the two threads down, so the mailing list can return to the 
subject matter for which the list was created and is maintained; discussion 
of the use of Debian, and, seeking help with the operating system, and, not 
the extraneous (extreme euphemism) "stuff", that has arisen, like a living, 
growing, cesspool.


The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
irrelevant to my interests: I view debian-user in threaded mode with
collapsed threads, and simply do not expand the ones that don't
concern me.

I believe these are the config settings I use to enable this:

...
[X]  Thread Sorts by Arrival
...
Sort Key  =
SetSort Options
---  --
( )  Subject
( )  Arrival
( )  From
( )  To
( )  Cc
( )  Date
( )  siZe
( )  OrderedSubj
( )  scorE
(*)  tHread
( )  Reverse Subject
( )  Reverse Arrival
( )  Reverse From
( )  Reverse To
( )  Reverse Cc
( )  Reverse Date
( )  Reverse siZe
( )  Reverse OrderedSubj
( )  Reverse scorE
( )  Reverse tHread
...
Threading Display Style   =
SetRule Values
---  --
( )  none
(*)  show-thread-structure(default)
( )  mutt-like
( )  indent-subject-1
( )  indent-subject-2
( )  indent-from-1
( )  indent-from-2
( )  show-structure-in-from
...
Threading Index Style =
SetRule Values
---  --
( )  regular-index-with-expanded-threads
(*)  

Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 08:53:43AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> Could the List administrators please shut down both this thread and the
> "unubscribe" thread?
> 

Sadly, this list isn't fully moderated: the only way to stop any particular
thread is not to contribute to it.

I spend some time monitoring in case threads become acrimonious: I also
post an FAQ here once a month reminding folk here of the Debian Code of
Conduct.

It's probably worth another reminder, formally, from me as a member of
the Debian Community Team, that people posting to the list are respectfully
asked to abide by the Code of Conduct. Be polite, be constructive, be
helpful - don't fan the flames of flame wars.

No one of us is perfect: the temptation to just add a bit more when you
are irritated or something is wrong on the internet can be very strong.

Obligatory xkcd cartoon: https://xkcd.com/386

It's also quite easy to criticise the perpetrators of long threads: the easiest
way to stop them is not to add to them.

I could always add the how to unsubscribe to the FAQ - but if people don't read
mail headers and footers on the list, they won't read the FAQ either :(


> 
> So, please, shut the two threads down, so the mailing list can return to the
> subject matter for which the list was created and is maintained; discussionWW
> of the use of Debian, and, seeking help with the operating system, and, not
> the extraneous (extreme euphemism) "stuff", that has arisen, like a living,
> growing, cesspool.
> 
> Thank you in anticipation
> 

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

[amaca...@debian.org]
For the Debian Community Team
> ..
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..
> 

List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Bret Busby]

On 12/8/23 08:08, zithro wrote:

On 11 Aug 2023 23:39, gene heskett wrote:
No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all 
the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at 
least a decade.


With all due respect, can you stop spreading misinformation to this list ?
Not only this has nothing to do with unsubscribing to the ML, but it 
just shows that you don't get what you're talking about.

Are you really an engineer ?!

This extends to : DONT FOLLOW TUTORIALS THAT WONT EXPLAIN THE **WHY**

Also, I admire dedicated people on this ML ...
It's only 3 months I'm following it regularly, to learn things about 
Debian.

What did I learn ? Random people SUCK. Big time.

But I guess it's the XXI century plague.
People using other people's time to spare their own.

Sorry for the noise, if you get that oxymoron ;)


Hello.

Could the List administrators please shut down both this thread and the 
"unubscribe" thread?


I believe that sufficient has been said, and, enough faecal matter has 
been spread (and, I am not referring to the poster above, in that), and, 
explicit instructions for how to unsubscribe, have been posted, and, if 
some subscribers need to be told how to input the name of this mailing 
list ("If you look at that black rectangle in front of you, with those 
white markings on it, that is named a keyboard. On that thing, if you 
look along the rows of the markings, you should be able to see one 
marking, that looks a bit like a half circle on the right hand side, 
and, it has a straight line running up the left had side of that half 
circle. that marking is named a 'D'. If you press that, you should be 
able to see  the 'd' character on you computer screen. Can you see that? 
Very good. Now, the next  marking to look for, is for an "E". That is 
the next character in the name of the mailing list"), then, perhaps, 
they need help, that is more than how to unsubscribe from the mailing 
list, and, both threads have been made to descend into the ridiculous, 
and, have started invoking ill-will, that helps no-one.


So, please, shut the two threads down, so the mailing list can return to 
the subject matter for which the list was created and is maintained; 
discussion of the use of Debian, and, seeking help with the operating 
system, and, not the extraneous (extreme euphemism) "stuff", that has 
arisen, like a living, growing, cesspool.


Thank you in anticipation

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[Yassine Chaouche]

Le 5/2/23 à 14:40, songbird a écrit :

[...]

   note this from the package description:

"evtest is now in maintenance mode and doesn't support all the features of the 
latest kernels; evemu-record from the evemu-tools package should be used instead."


Thanks for the heads-up!

Best,


--
yassine -- sysadm
+213-779 06 06 23
http://about.me/ychaouche
Looking for side gigs.

Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[songbird]

Yassine Chaouche wrote:
> Le 4/25/23 à 06:00, Susmita/Rajib a écrit :
>
>> 
>> Try looking at "evtest".
>> 
>> [   ...   ]
>> 
>> Raed the manual of evtest. There are very little
>> example code lines. evtest isn't installed in the Official Debian
>> GNU/Linux Live 11.6.0 lxde 2022-12-17T11:46.
>
>
> I second evtest which is very straightforward.
> Upon running evtest (with root privileges)
> you will be presented with a menu of all devices it can monitor.
> You just have to type the associated number to select that device.
>
> Of course it's not pre-installed in the live version of Debian,
> or any debian,
> but you can install it just fine.
>
> $ sudo apt-get install evtest
> [...]
> $ sudo evtest

  note this from the package description:

"evtest is now in maintenance mode and doesn't support all the features of the 
latest kernels; evemu-record from the evemu-tools package should be used 
instead. "


  songbird

Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[Yassine Chaouche]

Le 4/25/23 à 06:00, Susmita/Rajib a écrit :



Try looking at "evtest".

[   ...   ]

Raed the manual of evtest. There are very little
example code lines. evtest isn't installed in the Official Debian
GNU/Linux Live 11.6.0 lxde 2022-12-17T11:46.



I second evtest which is very straightforward.
Upon running evtest (with root privileges)
you will be presented with a menu of all devices it can monitor.
You just have to type the associated number to select that device.

Of course it's not pre-installed in the live version of Debian,
or any debian,
but you can install it just fine.

$ sudo apt-get install evtest
[...]
$ sudo evtest


Best,
--
yassine -- sysadm
+213-779 06 06 23
http://about.me/ychaouche
Looking for side gigs.

Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[Susmita/Rajib]

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse
movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal
From: "Susmita/Rajib" 
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 10:30:04 +0530
Message-id: <[]
caeg4czwpbfh7efbcz5k+uxykervd4cmnr4tuw9z_znovj_t...@mail.gmail.com>
In-reply-to:

References: <[]
CAEG4cZXDPaY3hkjYTf=fnm7byybfztmab-mo8rkvh-_vkpm...@mail.gmail.com>



My dear illustrious leaders and senior members of this mailing list,

Please Ignore my earlier post on evemu at
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/04/msg01018.html, as the
input events can be accessed from the terminals without the
implementation of evemu,

The ideal candidates would be kernel event handlers, like mouse and
keyboard event handlers, which are illustrated in the file:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/input/input.txt

I would like the latest edition of the said document: whether a
commensurate version exists, such as
https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/.

BUT mainly how could I access the input events from the terminal?

For example, in the case of my laptop, my usb mouse is reported by
invoking as root, $cat /dev/input/mouse1 and the laptop keyboard, as
root by $cat /dev/input/event0.

What remains to be accomplished is the event when a USB device is
inserted into the USB ports.

After the "USB insertion" is sorted out, I will seek support for the
next course of action.

Best wishes

Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[David]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2023 at 05:18, Susmita/Rajib  wrote:
>
[...]
> >From these questions, found evemu, but this isn't available in Debian.
> Only on freedesktop. But an alternative is available: evemu-tools. But
> Debian manpages doesn't have an evemu-tools entry.
>
> Raed the manual of evtest. There are very little
> example code lines. evtest isn't installed in the Official Debian
> GNU/Linux Live 11.6.0 lxde 2022-12-17T11:46.
>
> Tthe package information was raed for evtest. evtest according to
> Debian is only being maintained. Advised that it was better to look for
> evemu.
>
> >From the package repository, it was found that evemu have separate
> manpages, each for:
> evemu-describe
> evemu-device
> evemu-event
> evemu-play
> evemu-record
>
> I read the man pages and tried:
> evemu-describe /dev/input/eventX
> For my laptop.
>
> Could I please be advised on how to:
> (1)  monitor event0 (keyboard), event6 (external USB optical mouse) real time?
>
> (2)  If there is a way to monitor mouse-clicks or keystroke, i.e., the
> two events, in real time, without a script or a programming language
> like c or python?

Use an internet search engine like google or duckduckgo to
search for "using evemu-tools" and click on any of the first
five results.

Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[Susmita/Rajib]

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse
movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal
From: Darac Marjal 
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 18:24:06 +0100
Message-id: <[] ab7599f3-2c92-358c-2ba4-250284395...@darac.org.uk>
In-reply-to: <[]
CAEG4cZXDPaY3hkjYTf=fnm7byybfztmab-mo8rkvh-_vkpm...@mail.gmail.com>
References: <[]
CAEG4cZXDPaY3hkjYTf=fnm7byybfztmab-mo8rkvh-_vkpm...@mail.gmail.com>

[   ...   ]

Try looking at "evtest".

[   ...   ]

Thanks Mr. Marjal, for replying to my query.

First of all, my apology for typing incorrectly the word Peripheral.

My dear illustrious leaders and senior list members of debian-user,

Checked a few of stackoverflow questions with your input and the
string [stackoverflow "monitor mouse" debian].

These are about monitoring mouse/keystroke
programmatically using c programming language, not with bash script.
BUT my point is that GNU/Linux system must be doing this. I like to
seek the data from the system program(s) that is/are monitoring all
peripherals.

>From these questions, found evemu, but this isn't available in Debian.
Only on freedesktop. But an alternative is available: evemu-tools. But
Debian manpages doesn't have an evemu-tools entry.

Raed the manual of evtest. There are very little
example code lines. evtest isn't installed in the Official Debian
GNU/Linux Live 11.6.0 lxde 2022-12-17T11:46.

Tthe package information was raed for evtest. evtest according to
Debian is only being maintained. Advised that it was better to look for
evemu.

>From the package repository, it was found that evemu have separate
manpages, each for:
evemu-describe
evemu-device
evemu-event
evemu-play
evemu-record

I read the man pages and tried:
evemu-describe /dev/input/eventX
For my laptop.

Could I please be advised on how to:
(1)  monitor event0 (keyboard), event6 (external USB optical mouse) real time?

(2)  If there is a way to monitor mouse-clicks or keystroke, i.e., the
two events, in real time, without a script or a programming language
like c or python?

(3)  monitor the USB ports when some device is inserted into the ports?

Best wishes,
Rajib

Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[Darac Marjal]

Note that the subject of an email should be just that - an indication of 
the subject matter. Putting important information JUST in the subject 
line can be confusing.


On 24/04/2023 14:40, Susmita/Rajib wrote:

The output could be simple dots for mouse movement, dashes for key
press, and colon for perepherals insert.
No need for exact key or mouse positions or perepheral details.

Try looking at "evtest".

Best wishes,
Rajib



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal

[Susmita/Rajib]

The output could be simple dots for mouse movement, dashes for key
press, and colon for perepherals insert.
No need for exact key or mouse positions or perepheral details.
Best wishes,
Rajib

Re: Graphics card switching request

[Felix Miata]

Marcin Tchórznicki composed on 2023-03-12 18:44 (UTC+0100):

> I have installed Debian 11 on my laptop. The computer has an intel
> integrated graphics card and an Nvidia graphics card on board. Debian
> has the nouveau driver. After installing the dedicated Nvidia driver, X
> server shows an error, no xorg.conf. Is there any way under Debian 11 to
> be able to switch between integrated graphics card and Nvidia card ?
> Some games do not work under Linux on the integrated card. Please help.

There is no "the" nouveau driver. Each kernel provides a nouveau device module
(driver). Next there is a nouveau display driver for X, possibly best handled 
thus:

apt purge xserver-xorg-video-nouveau 

This is because it is reverse engineered and old technology. The upstream 
default,
newer technology, not separately packaged, display driver modesetting should be
(but is not) the only display driver anyone needs. Both nouveau and modesetting
should be evaluated on any particular installation, and the better selected for 
use.

There's also:
libdrm-nouveau2: Userspace interface to nouveau-specific kernel DRM services -- 
runtime

 should be the starting point for
any Debian user with Intel+NVidia graphics hardware that doesn't work OOTB.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Graphics card switching request

[Felix Miata]

Marcin Tchórznicki composed on 2023-03-12 13:44 (UTC-0400):
 
> I have installed Debian 11 on my laptop. The computer has an intel 
> integrated graphics card and an Nvidia graphics card on board. Debian 
> has the nouveau driver. After installing the dedicated Nvidia driver, X 
> server shows an error, no xorg.conf. Is there any way under Debian 11 to 
> be able to switch between integrated graphics card and Nvidia card ? 
> Some games do not work under Linux on the integrated card. Please help.

There is no "the" nouveau driver. Each kernel provides a nouveau device module
(driver). Next there is a nouveau display driver for X, possibly best handled 
thus:

apt purge xserver-xorg-video-nouveau 

This is because it is reverse engineered and old technology. The upstream 
default,
newer technology, not separately packaged, display driver modesetting should be
(but is not) the only display driver anyone needs. Both nouveau and modesetting
should be evaluated on any particular installation, and the better selected for 
use.

There's also:
libdrm-nouveau2: Userspace interface to nouveau-specific kernel DRM services -- 
runtime

 should be the starting point for
any Debian user with Intel+NVidia graphics hardware that doesn't work OOTB.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Graphics card switching request

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 18:44:19 +0100
Marcin Tchórznicki  wrote:

> Is there any way under Debian 11 to 
> be able to switch between integrated graphics card and Nvidia card ? 
> Some games do not work under Linux on the integrated card.

Several. Your desktop may have something built in. On XFCE, e.g.,
 -> Applications -> Settings -> Display

Also look for packages with "randr" in them, e.g.:

apt-cache search randr

I use arandr because once you get your screens set up as you like them,
it will spit out a script for automating the process, which you can then
incorporate into the startup process of your desktop.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Graphics card switching request

[Marcin Tchórznicki]

Hi !

I have installed Debian 11 on my laptop. The computer has an intel 
integrated graphics card and an Nvidia graphics card on board. Debian 
has the nouveau driver. After installing the dedicated Nvidia driver, X 
server shows an error, no xorg.conf. Is there any way under Debian 11 to 
be able to switch between integrated graphics card and Nvidia card ? 
Some games do not work under Linux on the integrated card. Please help.


Greetings

Martin

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Re: Backport Request: Backport openssh-server-9.2p1-2 to bullseye

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 01:56:05PM +0530, jadhav vishwanath wrote:
> The ssh timeout functionality was removed in the OpenSSH-server-8.4, Now
> this functionality has been fixed(restored) in OpenSSH-server-9.2 (refer
> ) released in Debian
> bookworm.

The inactivity timeout is a *new feature* in OpenSSH 9.2 as
the site you linked to clearly indicates.  It also links to
 which goes into more
detail about the new feature.

> The functionality was working properly in Buster and as per the
> fix it is restored in bookworm.

This is completely false.  You were perhaps exploiting some kind of bug
or accidental feature in the old version.  As your own link says,

  Killing the connection because of inactivity was never the specified
  function of ClientAliveInterval and that it happened to work that way
  was an accident.

Just installing the new version is not going to restore the accidental
functionality you were exploiting.  You will need to set up the new
feature explicitly.

> It would be great if we can backport the
> fix to Debian bullseye as well. From a security point of view,
> functionality has high importance.

If your manager or overseeing committee has a fetish for idle timeouts
on ssh connections (this is not the first time I've heard of such a
thing), then that's more of a "you" problem than something all of the
users of Debian would care about.

As such, I'd suggest that *you* backport the newer openssh-server to
your system, or compile the upstream OpenSSH and install that.

I've had to use upstream OpenSSH due to incompetent overseers who
do not understand how Debian's security team works (their probes only
look at the upstream component of the version number and say "hey, this
one is vulnerable").  So I can definitely sympathize a little, albeit not
on this *particular* misfeature.  I can also state with experience that
compiling and installing upstream OpenSSH is not too difficult to do.
Getting the systemd unit file correct is by far the hardest part of it.

Building it yourself will give you full control over the local situation,
so you won't have to come back here asking for yet another official
backport when your overseeing committee decides that you need version
9.2.2 or something.  You'll be able to handle it yourself.

Backport Request: Backport openssh-server-9.2p1-2 to bullseye

[jadhav vishwanath]

 Hi All,
The ssh timeout functionality was removed in the OpenSSH-server-8.4, Now
this functionality has been fixed(restored) in OpenSSH-server-9.2 (refer
) released in Debian
bookworm. The functionality was working properly in Buster and as per the
fix it is restored in bookworm. It would be great if we can backport the
fix to Debian bullseye as well. From a security point of view,
functionality has high importance.

Please update on the same


-- 
--Regards
Vishwanath

Re: request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[Ángel]

On 2023-01-03 at 14:12 -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 09:04:12 -0500
> Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
> 
> > Claws email with the GPG plugin is popular. It may be a good fit
> > for
> > you, too.
> > 
> > https://www.claws-mail.org/plugin.php?plugin=gpg
> 
> Concur. You didn't indicate whether you use mbox or maildir format (or
> something else). Claws-mail will likely be able to read your existing
> emails with no issues.

evolution also has good support for OpenPGP mail.

Both Claws and evolution use GnuPG as backend (as did the old
Enigmail), so you should see no difference wrt. keeping keys in memory
without requiring the password (handled by gpg-agent), or trusting the
keys of the recipients.

I see that evolution filters support playing a sound as an action. I
don't know what the Virtual Identity plugin does. Apparently, it's no
longer on AMO.

Re: request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[Eric S Fraga]

On Tuesday,  3 Jan 2023 at 21:27, Michel Verdier wrote:
> I use Gnus (on emacs). I fetch mails with pop3s from different providers,
> send mails to corresponding smtp servers based on sending address (could
> be different criteria). I use nnml backend which store 1 mail per file,
> so no big database, best perf, easy backup and no mail losses. Gnus use
> standard gpg for encryption. I use swish for indexing and searching mails.

Pretty much the same for me except for notmuch instead of swish for
indexing/searching.  Works very well in all respects including gpg.

-- 
Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 30.0.50 2023-01-02) on Debian 11.5

Re: request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[DdB]

Am 03.01.2023 um 15:04 schrieb Jeffrey Walton:> Claws email with the GPG
plugin is popular. It may be a good fit for you, too.
>
> https://www.claws-mail.org/plugin.php?plugin=gpg
>
> Jeff

Thank you so much. I am going to check it out, test it and possibly
prepare the transition if all goes well. (Not a short term adventure,
but i do have the time ...)

Have a happy year 2023!
DdB

Re: request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 09:04:12 -0500
Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

> Claws email with the GPG plugin is popular. It may be a good fit for
> you, too.
> 
> https://www.claws-mail.org/plugin.php?plugin=gpg

Concur. You didn't indicate whether you use mbox or maildir format (or
something else). Claws-mail will likely be able to read your existing
emails with no issues.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[Michel Verdier]

Le 3 janvier 2023 DdB a écrit :

> How are YOU dealing with encryption, with multiple providers, with
> addresses created on-the-fly, with a huge email history, and so on?

I use Gnus (on emacs). I fetch mails with pop3s from different providers,
send mails to corresponding smtp servers based on sending address (could
be different criteria). I use nnml backend which store 1 mail per file,
so no big database, best perf, easy backup and no mail losses. Gnus use
standard gpg for encryption. I use swish for indexing and searching mails.

Re: request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256


--- Original Message ---
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 12:46 AM, DdB 
 wrote:

> How are YOU dealing with encryption, with multiple providers, with
> addresses created on-the-fly, with a huge email history, and so on?

Protonmail with its bridge (to TB or equivalent) might do for you.

--
Glenn English

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Version: ProtonMail

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+hnmgYHNTezMo1FBm4XNYl/pJPJnNpPDanRMleAAw6XER5L5ub9QaA==
=Vzpv
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 2:47 AM DdB
 wrote:
>
> i feel the time has come to find a more up-to-date replacement for my
> email-solution, but ...
>
> Up til now, i am using Thunderbird (52.9.1 (64-Bit) + Enigmail +
> ToneQuilla + Virtual Identity and more ...) on stretch from inside a
> Virtualbox-VM.
>
> That allowed to correspond seamlessly with GPG users on more than 20
> addresses (from 6 different providers), while i was acoustically
> notified about the different levels of relevance of those mails, since
> 20+ years. (makes a huge database)
>
> While keeping this stuff alive for an extended period of time, i have
> been able to prevent the necessity to enter any passphrase manually, to
> decrypt/encrypt automatically, and many more convenient solutions to
> ease my life.
>
> Of course, i knew, that this could come to an end, but i have not found
> a valid replacement yet. The current Thunderbird fails big time at
> solving the GPG part, even worse: They (Mozilla/NSA/???) want to have
> control over private keys in their own keystore, built by people
> obviously not skilled enough to create a(ny) secure piece of software.
> That is why i refused to embark on the path of replacing the isolated,
> but integrated solution Enigmail with something less trustworthy, less
> flexible, and less stable.
>
> But i feel, i will have to start building up an alternative, could not
> yet make up my mind.
>
> That is why i am asking for your communities experience and recommendations.
>
> How are YOU dealing with encryption, with multiple providers, with
> addresses created on-the-fly, with a huge email history, and so on?
>
> Really interested to find a solution, that can last for many years to come.

Claws email with the GPG plugin is popular. It may be a good fit for you, too.

https://www.claws-mail.org/plugin.php?plugin=gpg

Jeff

request a replacement for Thunderbird + Enigmail

[DdB]

Hello List,

i feel the time has come to find a more up-to-date replacement for my
email-solution, but ...

Up til now, i am using Thunderbird (52.9.1 (64-Bit) + Enigmail +
ToneQuilla + Virtual Identity and more ...) on stretch from inside a
Virtualbox-VM.

That allowed to correspond seamlessly with GPG users on more than 20
addresses (from 6 different providers), while i was acoustically
notified about the different levels of relevance of those mails, since
20+ years. (makes a huge database)

While keeping this stuff alive for an extended period of time, i have
been able to prevent the necessity to enter any passphrase manually, to
decrypt/encrypt automatically, and many more convenient solutions to
ease my life.

Of course, i knew, that this could come to an end, but i have not found
a valid replacement yet. The current Thunderbird fails big time at
solving the GPG part, even worse: They (Mozilla/NSA/???) want to have
control over private keys in their own keystore, built by people
obviously not skilled enough to create a(ny) secure piece of software.
That is why i refused to embark on the path of replacing the isolated,
but integrated solution Enigmail with something less trustworthy, less
flexible, and less stable.

But i feel, i will have to start building up an alternative, could not
yet make up my mind.

That is why i am asking for your communities experience and recommendations.

How are YOU dealing with encryption, with multiple providers, with
addresses created on-the-fly, with a huge email history, and so on?

Really interested to find a solution, that can last for many years to come.

regards, DdB

Re: How to request a package update?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 09:40:35PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> File a bug against smartmontools, explain the problem you experienced,
> and explain why you think that upgrading to 7.3 is the correct fix.

For the record, 7.3 is already in testing (bookworm).

Re: How to request a package update?

[John Hasler]

File a bug against smartmontools, explain the problem you experienced,
and explain why you think that upgrading to 7.3 is the correct fix.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

How to request a package update?

[Jeffrey Walton]

Hi Everyone,

I bought a new SanDisk 128GB Extreme PRO
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GYM5F8G). When I inserted the
thumbdrive, smartmontools reported the drive as failing. I think the
problem is in smartmontools, and I think smartmontools needs an update
from 7.2 to 7.3.

I want to file the bug report for an update to 7.3, but I don't know
how. The closest I have found is [1,2], which is for a package not in
Debian.

How do I request a package update or version bump?

Thanks in advance.

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/RFP
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/PackagingFAQ

Re: Request for Libjasper package

[Floris Renaud]

On maandag 28 november 2022 11:24:03 (+01:00), YOKESWARY ANEBARASSANE 
wrote:



Hi team,
Kindly provide me with guidelines to install libjasper-dev package for 
Debian 11 arm64, as I am unable to locate the package from the Debian 
website's repository.
Appreciate your positive response on the issue, thanks in advance. 



Regards,
Yokeswary Anebarassane
Puducherry Technological University


libjasper isn't part of Debian any more:
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/jasper


There is, however, a request to include the package again.
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=862727


A kind person maintains an older version of the packages here:
https://build.opensuse.org/package/binaries/home:npreining:debian-kde:other-deps/jasper/Debian_11

Request for Libjasper package

[YOKESWARY ANEBARASSANE]

Hi team,
Kindly provide me with guidelines to install libjasper-dev package for
Debian 11 arm64, as I am unable to locate the package from the Debian
website's repository.
Appreciate your positive response on the issue, thanks in advance.

Regards,
Yokeswary Anebarassane
Puducherry Technological University

Re: Request for Debian Subsystem for Windows like

[Kushal Kumaran]

On Thu, Oct 27 2022 at 02:11:46 PM, Dan Ritter  wrote:
> Suman Garai wrote: 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I know that this topic is nothing new, that there are software packages &
>> games that run on Windows, but there isn't support for Linux. Even
>> softwares like Wine & PlayOnLinux sometimes falters on supporting the
>> latest ones. Therefore, I wanted to know why isn't Debian putting efforts
>> to build something like Windows Subsystem for Linux or Windows Subsystem
>> for Android to support the apps across the Windows & Mac platforms.
>
>
> The answer is: Debian only works on and supplies
> free-as-in-freedom software. Windows is not. WINE is,
> PlayOnLinux is not. Android's AOSP is; much of the rest of
> Android is not.
>

PlayOnLinux itself is free software, distributed under GPLv3.  Debian
ships it in the contrib repository.  As its copyright file states, it is
in contrib because it downloads and executes unchecked scripts.

This doesn't affect the point you're making, though.

-- 
regards,
kushal

Re: Request for Debian Subsystem for Windows like

[Stefan Monnier]

> latest ones. Therefore, I wanted to know why isn't Debian putting efforts
> to build something like Windows Subsystem for Linux or Windows Subsystem

I think the usual answer is to run Windows in KVM for that.
It's a well understood a technically well defined solution to
the problem.  I understand it may not provide you with quite the
behavior you're looking for, but in that case I suggest you ask for that
behavior to be added/supported rather than to try and develop
a completely different solution (which will inevitably come with
different shortcomings, especially since Microsoft is unlikely to be
very cooperative, contrary to the support that Microsoft gets from
GNU/linux distributions in WSL).


Stefan

Re: Request for Debian Subsystem for Windows like

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 20:54:16 +0200
didier gaumet  wrote:

> Dan's answer is spot on but I supposed Suman would appreciate more 
> details :-)
> 
>  From my point of view:

Let me add to this.

Microsoft has an OS, Windows. It also has several application programs,
of which Microsoft's Internet Explorer and the Office suite of programs
are well known examples. Back when I worked for Microsoft, I observed a
few things:

* The application programs took advantage of OS APIs that were not
  documented to the outside world. This gave the Microsoft applications
  a competitive edge.

* Back in the day, application writers would disassemble MS-DOS and
  find and use hidden undocumented APIs. Of course there is no
  guarantee that a hidden API will work in the next version of DOS.
  Except that major application vendors would put pressure on Microsoft
  to carry those hidden APIs into future versions of DOS. And Windows
  on top of DOS (Widows 95, et al.). And into Widows NT, etc.

  Furthermore, sometimes those hidden APIs were buggy. Which meant the
  successor code had to carry those bugs forward.

* Things that appeared to be applications might in fact be extensions
  to the OS. Case in point, Microsoft Internet Explorer. To install
  Microsoft's C compiler required installing Internet Explorer. Why?
  because there were OS extensions in Internet Explorer, in addition to
  a web browser.

So far as I know (it's been a while) those hidden and buggy APIs are
still there. Which means that a truly complete LSW would also have to
carry them over. Good luck writing code to emulate that stuff!

My advice, if you must run Windows applications (I don't), is run well
behaved applications only, which includes applications that don't call
hidden APIs. I have no idea if there is a test suite for well behaved
Windows applications, but wine should be a decent approximation of one.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Request for Debian Subsystem for Windows like

[didier gaumet]

Hello,

Dan's answer is spot on but I supposed Suman would appreciate more 
details :-)


From my point of view:

- Microsoft is a company with a considerable amount of money and a 
sizeable human workforce. And it took them years to propose Windows 
Subsystem for Linux (WSL) and Windows Sybsystem for Android (WSA). So it 
is not easy.
 WSL and WSA implement a real Linux kernel because Linux and Android 
(the base Android without Google Play and such) is free/libre so 
Microsoft may do it. Please note that WSA does not implement Google Play 
but the Amazon Store (it is not free/libre and probably Microsoft has 
negociated with amazon a rigth to use its store in WSA.


- There already is something like Linux Subsystem for Windows (let(s 
call it LSW): Wine has the same scope as WSL: run applications (not the 
whole OS). The difference is: Microsoft Windows is a proprietary OS so 
WineHQ (Wine editor) cannot use the genuine Windows kernel, and has 
developed a layer to -very roughly- translate Windows instructions in 
Linux instructions.


There are elements of different nature that prevent the emergence of a 
new LSW:

- philosophical (proprietary vs free/libre)
- monetary (Debian is poor compared to Microsoft)
- logistical (Debian is an association and has a limited workforce 
composed almost completely of unpaid volonteers compared to Microsoft 
developers who earn a living working for Microsoft)

- organisational (why reinvent Wine?)
- ...

As a side note Wine is a layer intended to run Windows applications on a 
Linux distribution but there is an whole OS intended to replace Windows: 
ReactOS. It has been in development for more than twenty years and in my 
opinion is nowhere near being really usable: that's another clue that 
running Android or Linux apps on a Windows OS is much easier than 
running Windows apps on an OS taht is not Windows.

Re: Request for Debian Subsystem for Windows like

[Dan Ritter]

Suman Garai wrote: 
> Hello,
> 
> I know that this topic is nothing new, that there are software packages &
> games that run on Windows, but there isn't support for Linux. Even
> softwares like Wine & PlayOnLinux sometimes falters on supporting the
> latest ones. Therefore, I wanted to know why isn't Debian putting efforts
> to build something like Windows Subsystem for Linux or Windows Subsystem
> for Android to support the apps across the Windows & Mac platforms.


The answer is: Debian only works on and supplies
free-as-in-freedom software. Windows is not. WINE is,
PlayOnLinux is not. Android's AOSP is; much of the rest of
Android is not.

-dsr-

Re: Request for Debian Subsystem for Windows like

[Stephen P. Molnar]

On 10/27/2022 01:41 PM, Suman Garai wrote:

Hello,

I know that this topic is nothing new, that there are software 
packages & games that run on Windows, but there isn't support for 
Linux. Even softwares like Wine & PlayOnLinux sometimes falters on 
supporting the latest ones. Therefore, I wanted to know why isn't 
Debian putting efforts to build something like Windows Subsystem for 
Linux or Windows Subsystem for Android to support the apps across the 
Windows & Mac platforms.


I am sorry if this isn't the right place to ask for the same, but I 
really wanted to know & I could not get the answer anywhere, so I felt 
like asking through this medium. I actually want to move to some 
different OS but want that Windows like Application Support, therefore 
I had to ask. Other than that, you guys are great at your job. Keep it up.


Thank you
Suman


The Pengwin Linux distro form Whitewate Foundary uses Debian Bulllseye 
and is configured for WSL2. I am using it now on my Windows 10 Laptop 
and am satisfied with the performance.


-- Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. Molecular Modeling 614.312.7528 (c) Skype: 
smolnar1

Re: Request for Debian Subsystem for Windows like

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 11:11:31PM +0530, Suman Garai wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I know that this topic is nothing new, that there are software packages &
> games that run on Windows, but there isn't support for Linux. Even
> softwares like Wine & PlayOnLinux sometimes falters on supporting the
> latest ones. Therefore, I wanted to know why isn't Debian putting efforts
> to build something like Windows Subsystem for Linux or Windows Subsystem
> for Android to support the apps across the Windows & Mac platforms.
> 
> I am sorry if this isn't the right place to ask for the same, but I really
> wanted to know & I could not get the answer anywhere, so I felt like asking
> through this medium. I actually want to move to some different OS but want
> that Windows like Application Support, therefore I had to ask. Other than
> that, you guys are great at your job. Keep it up.
> 
> Thank you
> Suman

Debian on WSL is directly available from the Microsoft store: it is 
maintained by a Debian developer (rhaist) who uploads the Debian 
image to Microsoft.

That will allow you to run vanilla Debian on top of Microsoft's kernel
under WSL. If you want to run Windows apps on Debian, there's always
the option of using virtualisation. Virt-manager and KVM work well.
Microsoft will even provide a VM including Windows 11 and Windows 
development tools if you want to use it. It has a limited lifetime
but will work indefinitely if you keep it updated.

Hope this helps,

Andy Cater