Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
4.11.2013 02:10, Artem Marchenko: I'd appreciate some UI guidelines voice from Jolla here (I can understands they might have not thought of this use case before, well, it's time for it then :)). Looking at iOS and Android, it might be not a bad idea to have a phone UI without an explicit file interface at all. Hackers won't appreciate it, but they have terminal anyway and, well, for them you can create a custom File Open dialog. Regular users might appreciate a photo choosing dialog guaranteed to include all device photos more. Yeah, I think those two are not mutually exclusive doable. IIRC there should be Tracker, so it should be possible to get all photos or any other categories of files Tracker can discern (all audio files, all txt files, all PDFs). But on the other hand, some applications just won't do without a standard file-chooser, like a text editor, offline comic book reader, an image editor. At least without getting and putting the files on a global file heap, making finding stuff difficult. Of course a lot can be done with tags and semantic stuff (where did the file come from, what app made it), but as shown by the KDE GNOME projects (Nepomuk, Akonadi, Tracker, etc.) it is not easy to get right. Just having a simple time-proven file open dialog is IMHO a much simpler, easier safer solution. BTW, Android and to a lesser degree Harmattan could be used as a bad example of what happens if there is no default file dialog - every app that needs it would implement their own, all looking different (and not native) and every one of them with their own set of drawbacks. Cheers, Artem. On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com mailto:martin.kol...@gmail.com wrote: 1.11.2013 22:16, Janne Pulkkinen: Sailfish would benefit from having a default file/directory chooser instead of having different implementations made by different developers which would only make the OS appear inconsistent for the average user. Just putting this out there, because I would really like to see this implemented in the SDK. 2013/11/1 Damien Caliste dcali...@free.fr mailto:dcali...@free.fr Hello, On Fri Nov 1 08:54:03 2013 kher...@khertan.net mailto:kher...@khertan.net wrote: For the file selector, it should not be difficult to make one with a SilicaListView, and the qmldir extension. Ok, I'm new to QML, I didn't know about qmldir. I'll give a look. But I was hopping something common to avoid discrepency on the platform. Thanks for the info. For notification, i ve made a something similar but more simple to the Harmattan InfoBanner for ownNotes : http://khertan.net/blog/silica_infobanner Great. I'll give a look also waiting for something from Jolla if any. Thanks. Regards, Damien. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list What about the FileDialog component[1] introduced in Qt 5.1 ? The documentation says that it will use a native platform file-open dialog if available, so maybe just make a silica themed file open dialog and show it once the FileDialog component is used ? [1] http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.1/qtquickdialogs/qml-qtquick-dialogs1-filedialog.html ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com http://twitter.com/AgileArtem ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Hi Martin and all I am afraid I want to disagree and that's exactly why Jolla UI guidelines voice would be very welcome here. If common guideline would be to expose file system to the user Windows style, I'll be the first one to do it :) As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Whether it's useful enough for Sailfish to follow the same concept or whether there could be some useful enough half-way compromises, I don't know. I'd love to have somebody from Jolla UX have a serious thought about it. Just tell us how a typical file editor and pdf viewer should look like :) Best regards, Artem. P.S. The next question developers me included are going to ask is how to choose photos/pdfs/whatever coming from main phone storage, SD card, dropbox, app-specific source (a'la Android) or whatever else. Android solution is super flexible, but not simple at all and forces user think, iOS solution is forcing simplicity at a cost of features (particularly I believe it's one of the reasons why there is no SD card in iOS - too UX-heavy to expose SD peculiarities when choosing photos/videos). On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.comwrote: 4.11.2013 02:10, Artem Marchenko: I'd appreciate some UI guidelines voice from Jolla here (I can understands they might have not thought of this use case before, well, it's time for it then :)). Looking at iOS and Android, it might be not a bad idea to have a phone UI without an explicit file interface at all. Hackers won't appreciate it, but they have terminal anyway and, well, for them you can create a custom File Open dialog. Regular users might appreciate a photo choosing dialog guaranteed to include all device photos more. Yeah, I think those two are not mutually exclusive doable. IIRC there should be Tracker, so it should be possible to get all photos or any other categories of files Tracker can discern (all audio files, all txt files, all PDFs). But on the other hand, some applications just won't do without a standard file-chooser, like a text editor, offline comic book reader, an image editor. At least without getting and putting the files on a global file heap, making finding stuff difficult. Of course a lot can be done with tags and semantic stuff (where did the file come from, what app made it), but as shown by the KDE GNOME projects (Nepomuk, Akonadi, Tracker, etc.) it is not easy to get right. Just having a simple time-proven file open dialog is IMHO a much simpler, easier safer solution. BTW, Android and to a lesser degree Harmattan could be used as a bad example of what happens if there is no default file dialog - every app that needs it would implement their own, all looking different (and not native) and every one of them with their own set of drawbacks. Cheers, Artem. On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.comwrote: 1.11.2013 22:16, Janne Pulkkinen: Sailfish would benefit from having a default file/directory chooser instead of having different implementations made by different developers which would only make the OS appear inconsistent for the average user. Just putting this out there, because I would really like to see this implemented in the SDK. 2013/11/1 Damien Caliste dcali...@free.fr Hello, On Fri Nov 1 08:54:03 2013 kher...@khertan.net wrote: For the file selector, it should not be difficult to make one with a SilicaListView, and the qmldir extension. Ok, I'm new to QML, I didn't know about qmldir. I'll give a look. But I was hopping something common to avoid discrepency on the platform. Thanks for the info. For notification, i ve made a something similar but more simple to the Harmattan InfoBanner for ownNotes : http://khertan.net/blog/silica_infobanner Great. I'll give a look also waiting for something from Jolla if any. Thanks. Regards, Damien. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list What about the FileDialog component[1] introduced in Qt 5.1 ? The documentation says that it will use a native platform file-open dialog if available, so maybe just make a silica themed file open dialog and show it once the FileDialog component is used ? [1] http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.1/qtquickdialogs/qml-qtquick-dialogs1-filedialog.html ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com http://twitter.com/AgileArtem -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 10:28:29 +0100 Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com wrote: 4.11.2013 02:10, Artem Marchenko: I'd appreciate some UI guidelines voice from Jolla here (I can understands they might have not thought of this use case before, well, it's time for it then :)). But on the other hand, some applications just won't do without a standard file-chooser, like a text editor, offline comic book reader, an image editor. At least without getting and putting the files on a global file heap, making finding stuff difficult. Why not implement the filing system as a database? When a new file is created/downloaded then the database is updated. The difficulty arises with things like SD cards. When an application wants to load a file, it interrogates the database to find it's location, with the MIME type dictating which app *should* load it. Of course a lot can be done with tags and semantic stuff (where did the file come from, what app made it), Wouldn't the MIME type take care of that, in the way a server does? ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
As Roberto said: don't take Android and iOS as a reference point. I simply don't want just another borked crappy UX! Maemo Fremantle was nice at filepicking, though the build-in file picker had no option of displaying the whole FS. Harmattan was a step back, as most apps store there files in mysterious or dumb place (some downloads go to .downloads, some to Downloads, and the documents are stored in /home/user). Please, don't make Sailfish two steps forward, one hundred steps back by making it an Android/iOS clone. The gallery might be usable at times, but nothing can replace a normal file picker. Tabs would work great here: one for normal picking, 2nd for the gallery. -- Marcin 2013/11/4 Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com 4.11.2013 12:32, Roberto Colistete Jr.: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list +1 ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Installing packages to the SDK and Emulator via the rpm/yaml file
Hi all As the topic of installing the to the SDK and Emulator is one which has raised many questions in the is mailing list, I have collected the wisdom from replies to this and similar threads, and have created a guide to installing on my Sailfish blog. The post can be found here: http://flyingsheeponsailfish.blogspot.com/2013/11/deploying-additional-packages-to.html Comments, corrections, and suggestions for improvement are welcome via this mailing list. mfg Chris ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Guys, my main motivation [mostly] for total file choosing consistency and [less] against exposing file system is fear. Fear of Android-like hell of in which directory that file was? Or was it in some app-specific source? Or app specific source, but I saved a copy to Downloads? Or to Downloads on SD card? And why can't I just see all my recent photos together somewhere? iOS has one way of dealing with these issues, I don't mind if Jolla chooses another one, but IMHO there has to be some consistent and hard UX guildelines. I know sailors are busy finalizing the device, but UI might be even more important than engineering peculiarities int the longer run. Somebody at Jolla should just sit and go through several reference cases such as photo editor, pdf viewer, manga book reader (where a book is a folder full of images and texts) and tell how the user should open files + 2 important sub-cases with data coming on SD card or downloaded from web. Cheers, Artem. On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Marcin M. marmistrz...@gmail.com wrote: As Roberto said: don't take Android and iOS as a reference point. I simply don't want just another borked crappy UX! Maemo Fremantle was nice at filepicking, though the build-in file picker had no option of displaying the whole FS. Harmattan was a step back, as most apps store there files in mysterious or dumb place (some downloads go to .downloads, some to Downloads, and the documents are stored in /home/user). Please, don't make Sailfish two steps forward, one hundred steps back by making it an Android/iOS clone. The gallery might be usable at times, but nothing can replace a normal file picker. Tabs would work great here: one for normal picking, 2nd for the gallery. -- Marcin 2013/11/4 Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com 4.11.2013 12:32, Roberto Colistete Jr.: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list +1 ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com http://twitter.com/AgileArtem ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:32:06 -0200 Roberto Colistete Jr. roberto.colist...@gmail.com wrote: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list I couldn't agree more. Please do not limit the freedom of the users. When I visit a web page with a file upload form and I click the file input field, I expect a file selection dialog to let me pick a file on my device to upload. jezra ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
[SailfishDevel] Problems with the Emulator (possible bugs?)
Hello guys, While porting my applications to Sailfish OS, I encountered the following problems with the Emulator. I tried it numerous times and I always end up with the same result: 1) I cannot make onDoubleClick signal work. I have a Rectangle with a MouseArea filling it, and it has an onDoubleClicked signal - there's no reaction to it (tried clicking with various delays, a lot of times very quickly, etc.). If I change it to onClicked then single click works fine. I've also tested it with a simple Button - similarly, onDoubleClicked has no reaction (other than that the button gets highlighted for a short while as with onClicked, but nothing else happens), while with onClicked the button works OK with a single click. 2) If I update something on a page that's currently not visible (i.e. it isn't the topmost page in the stack) then its visible contents don't get refreshed. Its properties themselves DO get updated (which I can verify with console.log output) but when I go back to that page (e.g. via pageStack.pop()) then it still shows old content. If I update these properties once again, while the page IS visible (topmost), then everything gets updated correctly. For example, I have a Text element on a page (and its text is e.g. First). I then switch (via pageStack.push()) to another page and from there I update the first page's (not currently visible) text property (to e.g. Second). Console.log output shows that the text property gets updated, but if I switch back to that page then it still shows the old First text (despite the property itself now being Second). The very same code works properly on Harmattan, Symbian and BB10. The only difference is that on Sailfish OS the element is within a SilicaFlickable. Can someone please check it? I've spent the last two days trying to make the above work, to no avail... Thank you, Bolek ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Problems with the Emulator (possible bugs?)
Hi,
1) Not part of the emulator and double clicks should be avoided anyways, bad UI
experience. So forget using it :) (or make custom qevent handler and compare
timestamps).
2) Hard to know the problem without seeing your code. Maybe you forgot to use
property alias? Works for me. Here is minimal example of main, first and second
page:
---helloBinding.qml---
import QtQuick 2.0
import Sailfish.Silica 1.0
import pages
ApplicationWindow
{
initialPage: FirstPage { id: first }
cover: Qt.resolvedUrl(cover/CoverPage.qml)
}
---FirstPage.qml---
import QtQuick 2.0
import Sailfish.Silica 1.0
Page {
id: page
property alias labelText: exampleLabel.text
// To enable PullDownMenu, place our content in a SilicaFlickable
SilicaFlickable {
anchors.fill: parent
// PullDownMenu and PushUpMenu must be declared in SilicaFlickable,
SilicaListView or SilicaGridView
PullDownMenu {
MenuItem {
text: Show Page 2
onClicked: pageStack.push(Qt.resolvedUrl(SecondPage.qml))
}
}
// Tell SilicaFlickable the height of its content.
contentHeight: column.height
// Place our content in a Column. The PageHeader is always placed at
the top
// of the page, followed by our content.
Column {
id: column
width: page.width
spacing: Theme.paddingLarge
PageHeader {
title: UI Template
}
Label {
id: exampleLabel
x: Theme.paddingLarge
text: Hello Sailors
color: Theme.secondaryHighlightColor
font.pixelSize: Theme.fontSizeLarge
}
}
}
}
---SecondPage.qml---
import QtQuick 2.0
import Sailfish.Silica 1.0
Page {
id: page
SilicaListView {
id: listView
anchors.fill: parent
header: PageHeader {
title: Nested Page
}
MouseArea {
anchors.fill: parent
onClicked: {
first.labelText = Foo Bar
pageStack.pop()
}
}
}
}
--
re, Jonni
From: devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org [devel-boun...@lists.sailfishos.org]
on behalf of tw_bolek [tw_bo...@op.pl]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:09 PM
To: devel@lists.sailfishos.org
Subject: [SailfishDevel] Problems with the Emulator (possible bugs?)
Hello guys,
While porting my applications to Sailfish OS, I encountered the following
problems with the Emulator. I tried it numerous times and I always end up with
the same result:
1) I cannot make onDoubleClick signal work. I have a Rectangle with a
MouseArea filling it, and it has an onDoubleClicked signal - there's no
reaction to it (tried clicking with various delays, a lot of times very
quickly, etc.). If I change it to onClicked then single click works fine. I've
also tested it with a simple Button - similarly, onDoubleClicked has no
reaction (other than that the button gets highlighted for a short while as with
onClicked, but nothing else happens), while with onClicked the button works OK
with a single click.
2) If I update something on a page that's currently not visible (i.e. it isn't
the topmost page in the stack) then its visible contents don't get refreshed.
Its properties themselves DO get updated (which I can verify with console.log
output) but when I go back to that page (e.g. via pageStack.pop()) then it
still shows old content. If I update these properties once again, while the
page IS visible (topmost), then everything gets updated correctly.
For example, I have a Text element on a page (and its text is e.g. First). I
then switch (via pageStack.push()) to another page and from there I update the
first page's (not currently visible) text property (to e.g. Second).
Console.log output shows that the text property gets updated, but if I switch
back to that page then it still shows the old First text (despite the
property itself now being Second). The very same code works properly on
Harmattan, Symbian and BB10. The only difference is that on Sailfish OS the
element is within a SilicaFlickable.
Can someone please check it? I've spent the last two days trying to make the
above work, to no avail...
Thank you,
Bolek
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[SailfishDevel] QtWebKit crash
Hi Everybody, I finally managed to build my application, my problems were probably due to the Virtual machines being out of sync with QtCreator. Now I have an application that is still quite rough around the edges, but it runs, and displays the first SilicaUI components. However, I have found another stumbling block, in QtWebKit: I am using a QWebPage to access the DOM of a web page to scrape the information I need to display, but as soon as the QWebPage variable is created, I get a segmentation violation. My code is as follows: QWebPage page; page.mainFrame()-setContent(htmlReply, text/html, baseUrl); QWebElement doc = page.mainFrame()-documentElement(); I tried putting a breakpoint at the QWebPage page; line, and I get a sigsegv as soon as the constructor is called. The problem is I don't even get a proper stack trace, to make sense of what is going on... Is there some debug package I can install on the target (or the SDK?) to make some progress? By the way... I need to catch up with this WAyland stuff, but my understanding was that it supersedes X11. However, I still see libX11 and most of the X libraries linked with my application, is this normal? Thank you in advance, Luciano -- Luciano Montanaro Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. -- Douglas Adams ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Installing packages to the SDK and Emulator via the rpm/yaml file
Hi Luciano Thank you for your kind words. Your emulator / train issue is an interesting one. I do a lot of my development on a train on the way to and from work, and I am able to build without any problems. Sometimes I will have an iffy network connection over my N9, but mostly not. That said I have not tried to build with the latest Alpha update without a network connection. I can try later this evening. My primary development host is OSX; I guess yours is some flavour of Linux? When you say network interface has no address, do you mean the host, or the emulator? Ciao Chris Zitat von Luciano Montanaro mikel...@gmail.com: Thank you very much, that is a good introduction to packaging, and it covers all the stumbling blocks I have encountered with regards to packaging/ deploying/building. One thing that I have discovered is that my QtCreator cannot connect to the emulator if there network interface has no address: Since I often try to build when traveling/on a train, that was a problem. The workaround I discovered is to assign a network address to a network device like: ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.1. Then building works as expected. The rest I think is covered... But I still get bitten from time to time by QtCreator updating my yaml file on its own, which requires cleaning it up. I have a new problem now, but it is not related to building, and I will post it separately. Luciano On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:19 PM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote: Hi all As the topic of installing the to the SDK and Emulator is one which has raised many questions in the is mailing list, I have collected the wisdom from replies to this and similar threads, and have created a guide to installing on my Sailfish blog. The post can be found here: http://flyingsheeponsailfish.blogspot.com/2013/11/deploying-additional-packages-to.html Comments, corrections, and suggestions for improvement are welcome via this mailing list. mfg Chris ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Luciano Montanaro Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. -- Douglas Adams ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Problems with the Emulator (possible bugs?)
HI Bolex
Have you tried updating the properties on pushing?
DefaultSMSPage {
id: defaultSMSPage
fontSize: appWindow.fontSize
onCancelled: pageStack.pop(mainPage);
onNextPage: {
pageStack.push(contactSelectionPage, {template_id: 1234})
}
}
Unfortunately this only works for push, for pop you cannot set
properties in this way.
Perhaps you could post your code somewhere ...
Ciao
Chris
Zitat von tw_bolek tw_bo...@op.pl:
Hello guys,
While porting my applications to Sailfish OS, I encountered the
following problems with the Emulator. ..
2) If I update something on a page that's currently not visible
(i.e. it isn't the topmost page in the stack) then its visible
contents don't get refreshed. Its properties themselves DO get
updated (which I can verify with console.log output) but when I go
back to that page (e.g. via pageStack.pop()) then it still shows
old content. If I update these properties once again, while the
page IS visible (topmost), then everything gets updated correctly.
.
Thank you,
Bolek
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