Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Hi, There are few choosers available under Sailfish.Pickers module. They are not yet accepted in harbour however. On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Caliste Damien damien.cali...@free.frwrote: Hello, Le vendredi 29 novembre 2013, Superpelican a écrit : IMHO a file picker/chooser/dialog should be the number 1 priority for the Sailors right now I agree 100% with this. Especially since we cannot use the folderListModel from QML in harbour. With this QML plugin, one can easily create a decent file chooser (I've done it for my porting project Mæp https://github.com/dcaliste/maep-qt). Besides, using folderListModel should be temporary before having a unified filechooser UI. To help Jolla team, if they read, here are some thoughts about a Jolla file chooser (please readers comment and add suggestions of your own): - I like the Maemo 5 filechooser, using it from the N900 since 4 years, I found it easy to use and intuitive ; - I definitly like the way going up from $HOME lists bluetooth, NAS and SD card entries, very intuitive and convenient (it hides the complete UNIX directories and just present relevant places for the user) ; - it lacks a sort by date options (often use to find a recent file that has been worked on) ; - it lacks a favorite directories list easily accessible ; - it lacks the recently used entry of the desktop GTK filechooser that I find very easy to use to share files between applications. Regards, Damien. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Regards, Siteshwar ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
IMHO a file picker/chooser/dialog should be the number 1 priority for the Sailors right now, now's the time to get the devs aboard and keep the ones already aboard happy ;) IMHO feature updates to the OS (like landscape mode for the stock browser) can wait until the dev stuff is sorted out. Next up my priority list would be a decent (not dumbed down) file manager app. Kind Regards, Superpelican :) On Mon Nov 4 2013 09:29:28 PM CET, jezra je...@jezra.net wrote: On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:32:06 -0200 Roberto Colistete Jr. roberto.colist...@gmail.com wrote: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list I couldn't agree more. Please do not limit the freedom of the users. When I visit a web page with a file upload form and I click the file input field, I expect a file selection dialog to let me pick a file on my device to upload. jezra ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
FilePicker should choose file from whole filesystem (we cam always have settings to restrict it to $HOME or i.e.) and TrackerPicker should select media from Tracker database. Two different solutions is better. On 05.11.2013 02:29, jezra wrote: On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:32:06 -0200 Roberto Colistete Jr. roberto.colist...@gmail.com wrote: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list I couldn't agree more. Please do not limit the freedom of the users. When I visit a web page with a file upload form and I click the file input field, I expect a file selection dialog to let me pick a file on my device to upload. jezra ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
4.11.2013 02:10, Artem Marchenko: I'd appreciate some UI guidelines voice from Jolla here (I can understands they might have not thought of this use case before, well, it's time for it then :)). Looking at iOS and Android, it might be not a bad idea to have a phone UI without an explicit file interface at all. Hackers won't appreciate it, but they have terminal anyway and, well, for them you can create a custom File Open dialog. Regular users might appreciate a photo choosing dialog guaranteed to include all device photos more. Yeah, I think those two are not mutually exclusive doable. IIRC there should be Tracker, so it should be possible to get all photos or any other categories of files Tracker can discern (all audio files, all txt files, all PDFs). But on the other hand, some applications just won't do without a standard file-chooser, like a text editor, offline comic book reader, an image editor. At least without getting and putting the files on a global file heap, making finding stuff difficult. Of course a lot can be done with tags and semantic stuff (where did the file come from, what app made it), but as shown by the KDE GNOME projects (Nepomuk, Akonadi, Tracker, etc.) it is not easy to get right. Just having a simple time-proven file open dialog is IMHO a much simpler, easier safer solution. BTW, Android and to a lesser degree Harmattan could be used as a bad example of what happens if there is no default file dialog - every app that needs it would implement their own, all looking different (and not native) and every one of them with their own set of drawbacks. Cheers, Artem. On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com mailto:martin.kol...@gmail.com wrote: 1.11.2013 22:16, Janne Pulkkinen: Sailfish would benefit from having a default file/directory chooser instead of having different implementations made by different developers which would only make the OS appear inconsistent for the average user. Just putting this out there, because I would really like to see this implemented in the SDK. 2013/11/1 Damien Caliste dcali...@free.fr mailto:dcali...@free.fr Hello, On Fri Nov 1 08:54:03 2013 kher...@khertan.net mailto:kher...@khertan.net wrote: For the file selector, it should not be difficult to make one with a SilicaListView, and the qmldir extension. Ok, I'm new to QML, I didn't know about qmldir. I'll give a look. But I was hopping something common to avoid discrepency on the platform. Thanks for the info. For notification, i ve made a something similar but more simple to the Harmattan InfoBanner for ownNotes : http://khertan.net/blog/silica_infobanner Great. I'll give a look also waiting for something from Jolla if any. Thanks. Regards, Damien. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list What about the FileDialog component[1] introduced in Qt 5.1 ? The documentation says that it will use a native platform file-open dialog if available, so maybe just make a silica themed file open dialog and show it once the FileDialog component is used ? [1] http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.1/qtquickdialogs/qml-qtquick-dialogs1-filedialog.html ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com http://twitter.com/AgileArtem ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Hi Martin and all I am afraid I want to disagree and that's exactly why Jolla UI guidelines voice would be very welcome here. If common guideline would be to expose file system to the user Windows style, I'll be the first one to do it :) As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Whether it's useful enough for Sailfish to follow the same concept or whether there could be some useful enough half-way compromises, I don't know. I'd love to have somebody from Jolla UX have a serious thought about it. Just tell us how a typical file editor and pdf viewer should look like :) Best regards, Artem. P.S. The next question developers me included are going to ask is how to choose photos/pdfs/whatever coming from main phone storage, SD card, dropbox, app-specific source (a'la Android) or whatever else. Android solution is super flexible, but not simple at all and forces user think, iOS solution is forcing simplicity at a cost of features (particularly I believe it's one of the reasons why there is no SD card in iOS - too UX-heavy to expose SD peculiarities when choosing photos/videos). On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.comwrote: 4.11.2013 02:10, Artem Marchenko: I'd appreciate some UI guidelines voice from Jolla here (I can understands they might have not thought of this use case before, well, it's time for it then :)). Looking at iOS and Android, it might be not a bad idea to have a phone UI without an explicit file interface at all. Hackers won't appreciate it, but they have terminal anyway and, well, for them you can create a custom File Open dialog. Regular users might appreciate a photo choosing dialog guaranteed to include all device photos more. Yeah, I think those two are not mutually exclusive doable. IIRC there should be Tracker, so it should be possible to get all photos or any other categories of files Tracker can discern (all audio files, all txt files, all PDFs). But on the other hand, some applications just won't do without a standard file-chooser, like a text editor, offline comic book reader, an image editor. At least without getting and putting the files on a global file heap, making finding stuff difficult. Of course a lot can be done with tags and semantic stuff (where did the file come from, what app made it), but as shown by the KDE GNOME projects (Nepomuk, Akonadi, Tracker, etc.) it is not easy to get right. Just having a simple time-proven file open dialog is IMHO a much simpler, easier safer solution. BTW, Android and to a lesser degree Harmattan could be used as a bad example of what happens if there is no default file dialog - every app that needs it would implement their own, all looking different (and not native) and every one of them with their own set of drawbacks. Cheers, Artem. On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.comwrote: 1.11.2013 22:16, Janne Pulkkinen: Sailfish would benefit from having a default file/directory chooser instead of having different implementations made by different developers which would only make the OS appear inconsistent for the average user. Just putting this out there, because I would really like to see this implemented in the SDK. 2013/11/1 Damien Caliste dcali...@free.fr Hello, On Fri Nov 1 08:54:03 2013 kher...@khertan.net wrote: For the file selector, it should not be difficult to make one with a SilicaListView, and the qmldir extension. Ok, I'm new to QML, I didn't know about qmldir. I'll give a look. But I was hopping something common to avoid discrepency on the platform. Thanks for the info. For notification, i ve made a something similar but more simple to the Harmattan InfoBanner for ownNotes : http://khertan.net/blog/silica_infobanner Great. I'll give a look also waiting for something from Jolla if any. Thanks. Regards, Damien. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list What about the FileDialog component[1] introduced in Qt 5.1 ? The documentation says that it will use a native platform file-open dialog if available, so maybe just make a silica themed file open dialog and show it once the FileDialog component is used ? [1] http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.1/qtquickdialogs/qml-qtquick-dialogs1-filedialog.html ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com http://twitter.com/AgileArtem -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 10:28:29 +0100 Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com wrote: 4.11.2013 02:10, Artem Marchenko: I'd appreciate some UI guidelines voice from Jolla here (I can understands they might have not thought of this use case before, well, it's time for it then :)). But on the other hand, some applications just won't do without a standard file-chooser, like a text editor, offline comic book reader, an image editor. At least without getting and putting the files on a global file heap, making finding stuff difficult. Why not implement the filing system as a database? When a new file is created/downloaded then the database is updated. The difficulty arises with things like SD cards. When an application wants to load a file, it interrogates the database to find it's location, with the MIME type dictating which app *should* load it. Of course a lot can be done with tags and semantic stuff (where did the file come from, what app made it), Wouldn't the MIME type take care of that, in the way a server does? ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
As Roberto said: don't take Android and iOS as a reference point. I simply don't want just another borked crappy UX! Maemo Fremantle was nice at filepicking, though the build-in file picker had no option of displaying the whole FS. Harmattan was a step back, as most apps store there files in mysterious or dumb place (some downloads go to .downloads, some to Downloads, and the documents are stored in /home/user). Please, don't make Sailfish two steps forward, one hundred steps back by making it an Android/iOS clone. The gallery might be usable at times, but nothing can replace a normal file picker. Tabs would work great here: one for normal picking, 2nd for the gallery. -- Marcin 2013/11/4 Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com 4.11.2013 12:32, Roberto Colistete Jr.: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list +1 ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Guys, my main motivation [mostly] for total file choosing consistency and [less] against exposing file system is fear. Fear of Android-like hell of in which directory that file was? Or was it in some app-specific source? Or app specific source, but I saved a copy to Downloads? Or to Downloads on SD card? And why can't I just see all my recent photos together somewhere? iOS has one way of dealing with these issues, I don't mind if Jolla chooses another one, but IMHO there has to be some consistent and hard UX guildelines. I know sailors are busy finalizing the device, but UI might be even more important than engineering peculiarities int the longer run. Somebody at Jolla should just sit and go through several reference cases such as photo editor, pdf viewer, manga book reader (where a book is a folder full of images and texts) and tell how the user should open files + 2 important sub-cases with data coming on SD card or downloaded from web. Cheers, Artem. On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Marcin M. marmistrz...@gmail.com wrote: As Roberto said: don't take Android and iOS as a reference point. I simply don't want just another borked crappy UX! Maemo Fremantle was nice at filepicking, though the build-in file picker had no option of displaying the whole FS. Harmattan was a step back, as most apps store there files in mysterious or dumb place (some downloads go to .downloads, some to Downloads, and the documents are stored in /home/user). Please, don't make Sailfish two steps forward, one hundred steps back by making it an Android/iOS clone. The gallery might be usable at times, but nothing can replace a normal file picker. Tabs would work great here: one for normal picking, 2nd for the gallery. -- Marcin 2013/11/4 Martin Kolman martin.kol...@gmail.com 4.11.2013 12:32, Roberto Colistete Jr.: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list +1 ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- Artem Marchenko http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com http://twitter.com/AgileArtem ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:32:06 -0200 Roberto Colistete Jr. roberto.colist...@gmail.com wrote: Em 04-11-2013 07:41, Artem Marchenko escreveu: As for my current person and arguably humble opinion, iOS is doing just great without the file dialog. It does force/encourage all the apps use own sandbox only (and own file-like selection dialogs then) and calls for workarounds when you actually want apps to interoperate, but.. the simplicity benefits you get to user by hiding the file level are great. Please, Sailfish community, don't take Android, iOS and other dumbed down mobile OS as examples. These mobile OS limit the freedom of the users, as well as developers : fake multi-tasking, restricted file system access, no dependencies, etc. For example, Ubuntu Touch 13.10 has more limitations than Android, because Canonical takes Android and iOS as models to copy many features. Please, Sailfish community, continue to take the examples from Maemo, MeeGo Harmattan and Nemo Mobile. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list I couldn't agree more. Please do not limit the freedom of the users. When I visit a web page with a file upload form and I click the file input field, I expect a file selection dialog to let me pick a file on my device to upload. jezra ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] File chooser
Sailfish would benefit from having a default file/directory chooser instead of having different implementations made by different developers which would only make the OS appear inconsistent for the average user. Just putting this out there, because I would really like to see this implemented in the SDK. 2013/11/1 Damien Caliste dcali...@free.fr Hello, On Fri Nov 1 08:54:03 2013 kher...@khertan.net wrote: For the file selector, it should not be difficult to make one with a SilicaListView, and the qmldir extension. Ok, I'm new to QML, I didn't know about qmldir. I'll give a look. But I was hopping something common to avoid discrepency on the platform. Thanks for the info. For notification, i ve made a something similar but more simple to the Harmattan InfoBanner for ownNotes : http://khertan.net/blog/silica_infobanner Great. I'll give a look also waiting for something from Jolla if any. Thanks. Regards, Damien. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
