Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
Hi Everyone, in any case (!) none has answered to my initial question and moreover has to be avoided changing the thread object and throw away one person's suggest or a simply discuss. So that now I have to renew my question with another all new post!!! Thank you! [OT] I have donate to LibreOffice some money and sure many of my time since 28.09.2010 to spread his use, to make it in mind to many people in Italy and in my local engineer professional association. In any case I think that resources like University Students, Google SoC, ... are and remain useful to both sides ;-) (TDF/Community/Users and Students themselfes). I also want to find an approved new feature list in TDF or LibreOffice site... Have all a sunny day, Carlo ing. Carlo Strata - via Botticelli 1/4 30031 Dolo - VE Italia - Italy - tel./fax +39.041.822.0665 cell. +39.347.85.69.824 Skype carlo.strata Google carlo.strata.69 - carlo.str...@tiscali.it PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu Il 16/05/2013 01.58, Steve Edmonds ha scritto: On 2013-05-16 07:45, Joel Madero wrote: Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up during ESC at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do what they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to fix this issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands. Best, Joel Would this paid for feature not then create a fork in the code, then are you committing to maintaining that branch until some time (may be never) that the branch feature is voted into the main code base. It seems a bit impractical when you have a continually evolving product to pay to add a feature unless you are assured it will be included in the main code base and maintained. Steve -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
Hello Carlo, Le jeudi 16 mai 2013 à 09:09 +0200, Carlo Strata a écrit : Hi Everyone, in any case (!) none has answered to my initial question and moreover has to be avoided changing the thread object and throw away one person's suggest or a simply discuss. So that now I have to renew my question with another all new post!!! Thank you! [OT] I have donate to LibreOffice some money and sure many of my time since 28.09.2010 to spread his use, to make it in mind to many people in Italy and in my local engineer professional association. Thank you a lot BTW! In any case I think that resources like University Students, Google SoC, ... are and remain useful to both sides ;-) (TDF/Community/Users and Students themselfes). I also want to find an approved new feature list in TDF or LibreOffice site... I think we do have what you are looking for: https://www.libreoffice.org/features/ (and linked pages from there) https://www.libreoffice.org/index.php/download/4-0-new-features-and-fixes/ and of course, the wiki pages: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0 Hope this helps, Charles. Have all a sunny day, Carlo ing. Carlo Strata - via Botticelli 1/4 30031 Dolo - VE Italia - Italy - tel./fax +39.041.822.0665 cell. +39.347.85.69.824 Skype carlo.strata Google carlo.strata.69 - carlo.str...@tiscali.it PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu Il 16/05/2013 01.58, Steve Edmonds ha scritto: On 2013-05-16 07:45, Joel Madero wrote: Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up during ESC at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do what they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to fix this issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands. Best, Joel Would this paid for feature not then create a fork in the code, then are you committing to maintaining that branch until some time (may be never) that the branch feature is voted into the main code base. It seems a bit impractical when you have a continually evolving product to pay to add a feature unless you are assured it will be included in the main code base and maintained. Steve -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
Hi Charles, thank you very much but with approved new feature I meant next releases features that are not yet implemented but wanted features, wanted by Community and/or TDF. I have found something similar here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA in the Enhancement requests (experimental) link that take you here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement that is, obviously, a set of collected enhanced issues... I also remember that the initial pdf/a develop was done by an Italian developer... I think to be part of the big the digital preservation of electronic documents business is one of the good thing to pursuit. In the famous release plan page would be useful to put the features that TDF, Developer and Community intend to include in each version: if you want say it a featured road map, something like this: http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/1.5.x_Roadmap Have a nice afternoon, Carlo ing. Carlo Strata - via Botticelli 1/4 30031 Dolo - VE Italia - Italy - tel./fax +39.041.822.0665 cell. +39.347.85.69.824 Skype carlo.strata Google carlo.strata.69 - carlo.str...@tiscali.it PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu Il 16/05/2013 10.50, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto: Hello Carlo, Le jeudi 16 mai 2013 à 09:09 +0200, Carlo Strata a écrit : Hi Everyone, in any case (!) none has answered to my initial question and moreover has to be avoided changing the thread object and throw away one person's suggest or a simply discuss. So that now I have to renew my question with another all new post!!! Thank you! [OT] I have donate to LibreOffice some money and sure many of my time since 28.09.2010 to spread his use, to make it in mind to many people in Italy and in my local engineer professional association. Thank you a lot BTW! In any case I think that resources like University Students, Google SoC, ... are and remain useful to both sides ;-) (TDF/Community/Users and Students themselfes). I also want to find an approved new feature list in TDF or LibreOffice site... I think we do have what you are looking for: https://www.libreoffice.org/features/ (and linked pages from there) https://www.libreoffice.org/index.php/download/4-0-new-features-and-fixes/ and of course, the wiki pages: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0 Hope this helps, Charles. Have all a sunny day, Carlo ing. Carlo Strata - via Botticelli 1/4 30031 Dolo - VE Italia - Italy - tel./fax +39.041.822.0665 cell. +39.347.85.69.824 Skype carlo.strata Google carlo.strata.69 - carlo.str...@tiscali.it PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu Il 16/05/2013 01.58, Steve Edmonds ha scritto: On 2013-05-16 07:45, Joel Madero wrote: Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up during ESC at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do what they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to fix this issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands. Best, Joel Would this paid for feature not then create a fork in the code, then are you committing to maintaining that branch until some time (may be never) that the branch feature is voted into the main code base. It seems a bit impractical when you have a continually evolving product to pay to add a feature unless you are assured it will be included in the main code base and maintained. Steve -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
Hello Carlo, Le jeudi 16 mai 2013 à 14:07 +0200, Carlo Strata a écrit : Hi Charles, thank you very much but with approved new feature I meant next releases features that are not yet implemented but wanted features, wanted by Community and/or TDF. I have found something similar here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA in the Enhancement requests (experimental) link that take you here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement that is, obviously, a set of collected enhanced issues... I also remember that the initial pdf/a develop was done by an Italian developer... I think to be part of the big the digital preservation of electronic documents business is one of the good thing to pursuit. In the famous release plan page would be useful to put the features that TDF, Developer and Community intend to include in each version: if you want say it a featured road map, something like this: http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/1.5.x_Roadmap Have a nice afternoon, We do indeed have a few dedicated page in the wiki as you pointed out, but as you know we don't have a roadmap they way it is classically understood; release notes exist however not just at the time of the release and appear much earlier, in this sense, they are the next features page you may be looking for. best, Charles. Carlo ing. Carlo Strata - via Botticelli 1/4 30031 Dolo - VE Italia - Italy - tel./fax +39.041.822.0665 cell. +39.347.85.69.824 Skype carlo.strata Google carlo.strata.69 - carlo.str...@tiscali.it PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu Il 16/05/2013 10.50, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto: Hello Carlo, Le jeudi 16 mai 2013 à 09:09 +0200, Carlo Strata a écrit : Hi Everyone, in any case (!) none has answered to my initial question and moreover has to be avoided changing the thread object and throw away one person's suggest or a simply discuss. So that now I have to renew my question with another all new post!!! Thank you! [OT] I have donate to LibreOffice some money and sure many of my time since 28.09.2010 to spread his use, to make it in mind to many people in Italy and in my local engineer professional association. Thank you a lot BTW! In any case I think that resources like University Students, Google SoC, ... are and remain useful to both sides ;-) (TDF/Community/Users and Students themselfes). I also want to find an approved new feature list in TDF or LibreOffice site... I think we do have what you are looking for: https://www.libreoffice.org/features/ (and linked pages from there) https://www.libreoffice.org/index.php/download/4-0-new-features-and-fixes/ and of course, the wiki pages: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0 Hope this helps, Charles. Have all a sunny day, Carlo ing. Carlo Strata - via Botticelli 1/4 30031 Dolo - VE Italia - Italy - tel./fax +39.041.822.0665 cell. +39.347.85.69.824 Skype carlo.strata Google carlo.strata.69 - carlo.str...@tiscali.it PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu Il 16/05/2013 01.58, Steve Edmonds ha scritto: On 2013-05-16 07:45, Joel Madero wrote: Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up during ESC at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do what they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to fix this issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands. Best, Joel Would this paid for feature not then create a fork in the code, then are you committing to maintaining that branch until some time (may be never) that the branch feature is voted into the main code base. It seems a bit impractical when you have a continually evolving product to pay to add a feature unless you are assured it will be included in the main code base and maintained. Steve -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive:
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: Spending money, via donations, geared to one feature and not the whole package can be a VERY bad marketing issue. I never liked it. If you donate money to one feature and it does not get added, or fixed, in your time line and not the developer's, it can be a mess. We do not know what can be fixed easily, or if something that looks simple will be a real hard add or fix. The simple things tend to be not so simple. We cannot even make a paper trail to show an agency [required by] that the donation towards a feature would even go to it. That would make a big legal mess. Paying a third party to fix things has been used by spammers for a long time. +1 to all that, but I think offering a payment and letting a developer opt in or out is fine. As long as user and developer understand LibreOffice has no part in the process. Best, Joel -- *Joel Madero* LibreOffice QA Volunteer jmadero@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
On 05/15/2013 02:03 PM, Joel Madero wrote: On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: Spending money, via donations, geared to one feature and not the whole package can be a VERY bad marketing issue. I never liked it. If you donate money to one feature and it does not get added, or fixed, in your time line and not the developer's, it can be a mess. We do not know what can be fixed easily, or if something that looks simple will be a real hard add or fix. The simple things tend to be not so simple. We cannot even make a paper trail to show an agency [required by] that the donation towards a feature would even go to it. That would make a big legal mess. Paying a third party to fix things has been used by spammers for a long time. +1 to all that, but I think offering a payment and letting a developer opt in or out is fine. As long as user and developer understand LibreOffice has no part in the process. Best, Joel Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up during ESC at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do what they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to fix this issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands. Best, Joel -- *Joel Madero* LibreOffice QA Volunteer jmadero@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
On 2013-05-16 07:45, Joel Madero wrote: Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up during ESC at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do what they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to fix this issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands. Best, Joel Would this paid for feature not then create a fork in the code, then are you committing to maintaining that branch until some time (may be never) that the branch feature is voted into the main code base. It seems a bit impractical when you have a continually evolving product to pay to add a feature unless you are assured it will be included in the main code base and maintained. Steve -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature
On 05/15/2013 03:45 PM, Joel Madero wrote: Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may need to account for that payment/donation and where it went to. That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments. There will be a mess in paperwork to deal with it. Opt in, opt out, What it was used for. Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more than thepayment in paperwork and legal fees. This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up during ESC at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do what they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to fix this issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands. Best, Joel In other words, you (the user who wants the feature) offers a bounty to anyone willing to fix the bug for you. This does not involve LO directly, so they are in the clear. -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
