Forest wrote in part-
Suppose that a group of children are trying to decide whether to play
baseball, kickball, football, basketball, jumprope, etc.
They are smart enough to use Paper Scissors Rock to make these kinds of
decisions even when there is a majority in favor of one course of action,
Adam wrote -
Now I bet that Demorep thinks two years is two too many for a minority
approved candidate. But do we have any assurances that the legislature
won't pick somebody WORSE? We don't, really. In times of severe
factionalism, the best you can hope to do is elect the candidate with
Short P.R. Language 30 April 2002
Sec. A. (a) All Election areas shall exist at least [36] weeks before the
Election.
(b) As nearly as possible, each Representative district shall have an equal
number of Electors at the last regular Election (plus or minus [1] percent),
have 1 or more cities
In view of the somewhat amazing stuff in recent postings by newer folks I
note some Elections 101 stuff.
3 or more Choices
NO first choice majority = either NO majority exists or there is a divided
majority.
The minority (1 or more subparts) will likely strategize in WHATEVER method
is
Mr. Hager wrote in part-
With the Venetian system, set it up so that a failure of any candidate to get
at least 66% means that all candidates are rejected and a new election with
new candidates must be held.
---
D- Democracy = 50 % plus 1
ANTI- Democracy = less than 50 % plus 1
http://www.law.stanford.edu/library/campaignfinance/
has th various 2002 U.S.A. campaign finance law cases.
How many pounds (tons ???) of paper in all cases ???
I continue to note the indirect minority rule math of the ANTI-Democracy
gerrymander/ plurality regime in the U.S.A. Congress that
Alex wrote in part --
I wonder when they'll be able to say Alex is in apartment 22 and
registered with this party, and the guy in apt. 21 is a different party, so
let's draw the line between those units.
---
D- Welcome to the cynical world of minority rule gerrymanders.
At least the
Forest wrote in part-
Who would object to Bucklin Done Right if they were told ... Put two
check marks next to your favorite's name, and one mark next to the name of
each acceptable alternative. If nobody's favorite gets a majority, then
the candidate acceptable to the greatest number of voters
The Economist, a U.K. politics magazine, has a story about gerrymanders in
the U.S.A. at
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1099030
The story is also in the print edition circa 27 April 2002 (with the France
President election flap on the cover -- an extremist
Another monster IRV example
A,B leftwing extremists Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc.
Y,Z rightwing extremists Hitler, Mussolini, Le Pen , etc.
M Moderate
22 ABM
21 ZYM
20 BAM
19 YZM
18 M
100
With Donald's favorite IRV (without the voters straining too much to vote
for more than 3 choices)
Donald who has become a flaming IRV fanatic (who just loves his ignorance of
Condorcet) wrote in part-
Donald: So, you tried to explain Condorcet to her, did you now.
In your explanation, did you tell her that the French election would
require 105 pairings? Did you tell her that a voter
Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part-
I guess my main concern with Condorcet proposals is that it takes
some listening, some attention, some study, for a person to understand
why one rank-count is better than another. I just don't know if
enough people will make that effort.
---
D- Your average friendly
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/04/25/high.tech.voting.ap/index.html
Britain tests early, high-tech voting
LONDON, England (AP) -- In an effort to promote interest in next month's
local elections, some districts began experimenting Thursday with
letting people cast ballots early at mobile
In a message dated 4/25/02 2:54:38 PM, Alex wrote:
How do you pick a winner after compiling the table of how many first,
second, third, etc. votes each candidate got?
D- There are various methods --- a main subject of this list --- especially
if there is NO Condorcet (Head to Head) winner
D-
I again suggest that new EM folks (aka newbies) be given info and directed
to look at certain web pages so that the same old election math 101
questions do NOT have to be answered again and again by EM senior citizens.
Adam-
Adam wrote in part-
Approval, on the other hand, makes the most sense to those who have only
been exposed to lone mark plurality. It is an obvious improvement once you
get a decent amount of information about it, and of course it costs nothing
to implement. I would push for approval voting
In a message dated 4/24/02 11:28:58 PM, Alex wrote:
I know you've probably explained it before briefly, but could you lay out
what number voting is? I'm interested to learn of any methods that take us
in the right direction, and right now the only ones I know of are Approval
and Condorcet.
D- One of these centuries there will be separation of legislative, executive
and judicial powers and *democratic* election systems (to get rid of various
monarchy/ oligarchy systems that keep causing all sorts of problems).
-
D - A real world example of the extremist effects of even top 2 runoff
election systems.
Runoff in a few weeks.
Any election method folks in France ???
What happens when IRV in the U.S.A. starts getting 2 top extremists with 3
choices remaining ???
-
Alex wrote-
This is the problem with dissuading people against IRV: The idea of a
guaranteed majority looks so great, never mind that the majority is very
path-dependent (which leads to non-monotonicity, IIAC, etc.). It also
looks so great that if our favorite is gone, well, at least we can
Mr. Hager wrote-
I'm currently investigating the possibility of using cake cutting as a way
to avoid gerrymanders in the redistricting process.
D- The gerrymander crisis in the U.S.A. is now ULTRA-DANGEROUS (due to the
many left/ right extremists being elected from *safe* de facto one
Candidate Vote Transfer Proportional Representation Method
20 April 2002
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[optional/ fill the blank]
Sec. 1. (a) A legislative body shall have 5, 7, 9, etc. at large members or
11, 15, 21, etc. district members respectively from 2, 3, 4, etc. districts
[or a combination of
D- Gerrymander power -- What a total ANTI- Democracy political fraud.
When will AP ever hear about proportional representation -- producing NO safe
1 party seats ???
The 435 Rep. folks (along with the 100 U.S.A. Senators) are now taxing the
general public and spending for special interest
BBC TV news had a story tonight about the election for President of France on
Sunday.
If no candidate gets a majority, then the top 2 candidates are in a runoff
election.
The story showed some of the left/ right extremist candidates (with an
estimate that the combined extremists will get a
D- 435 U.S. Rep. gerrymander seats in 2002 -- about 36 competitive = about 8
percent competitive
34 U.S. Senator gerrymander seats in 2002.
2003 result- more of the same U.S.A. government of the minority rule
gerrymander, by the minority rule gerrymander and for the minority rule
D- Some info about the 1919 (Weimar) and 1949 (old West) Germany
Constitutions with the latter incorporating the old East Germany after German
reunification.
---
http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/gm01000_.html
Germany - Weimar Constitution (Extracts)
-
{ Adopted on:
See also-
http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/es/esy_de.htm
Administration and Cost of Elections Project
Electoral Systems:
Germany: The Original Mixed Member Proportional System
For more information about this list (subscribe, unsubscribe, FAQ, etc),
please see
Adam wrote-
For reference, Mike is referring to my example, where the sincere
preferences are:
49: BushGoreNader
12: GoreBushNader
12: GoreNaderBush
27: NaderGoreBush
---
D- Who, if anybody, with all the strategy / insincere machinations has a YES
majority ???
For more information about
Mr. Salmi wrote in part-
I skimmed through the constitution and didn't find much on elections so
you're right about that.
The Weimar Constitution in German:
http://www.psm-data.de/weimar/weimar_vv.htm
D- The W.C. likely got some mention in the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials after
World
Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part-
In the ideal best category I vote for BeatpathWinner(wv)/CSSD.
D- Could an example with about 5 choices be done ???
What is the strategy to play games with BeatpathWinner(wv)/CSSD ???
I will make the rash assumption that there is such a strategy and that Mr.
U.S.A. GOVERNMENT, 2003-2005 PRELIMINARY MINORITY RULE MATH
Preliminary math as if the 2000 President Votes were being used for the Nov.
2002 Representative Seats and the Nov. 2004 Electoral College
PV 2000 PRESIDENT VOTES, S 2003 REP. SEATS, ECV 2004 ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES
A case is pending
In a message dated 4/13/02 1:24:31 AM, Mr. Ossipoff wrote:
People who study single-winner methods agree that it makes more
sense, and avoids proposal-order strategies, to vote on the
proposal and the status-quo, and the amendments to the proposal,
all in one balloting, using a good voting
The always interesting Donald (who detects things somewhat differently than
some some (or many) folks) wrote--
When one of these minor Deities use the term `favorite' that means they
have eye-balled all the choices and then they have secretly used Approval
Voting to calculate the winner.
Mr. Hager wrote in part-
That pretty much sums it up. For me, the real issue is balancing state
power and protecting minority interests. That's why I'd want to see
direct election of senators repealed. It would take a different mind set
than the one dominant today for that sort of solution
2000 POPULATIONS - 2000 PRESIDENT VOTES
POP 2000 CENSUS POPULATIONS (April 2000), PV 2000 PRESIDENT VOTES (Nov. 2000)
PV/POP (as percentages - LOW TO HIGH)
STATEPOP PV PV/POP PCT AVE
AZ 5140683 1532016 29.8 79.6
HI 1216642 367951 30.2 80.8
In a message dated 4/10/02 6:24:53 PM, you wrote:
I don't have a web reference, but I'll give precise definitions
here:
BeatpathWinner:
[text omitted]
---
D- As usual I suggest that certain *basic* material (especially definitions
and various methods WITH examples) be on the EM website
If Condorcet can not be done (as is the case in many low tech/ poorer areas),
then the worst choice (in the largest number (plurality) of last place votes)
can be eliminated one at a time if simple Number Voting (1, 2, etc.) is being
used.
Votes in each Place
1 2
Mr. Weinstein wrote in part-
Such a survey portion may not be the key part of the paper for reporters or
public to focus on, but it will help make the case that Approval (unlike IRV
or Lone-Mark) is the result of systematic scientific study and objective
considerations, and is not merely
D- The Supremes may yet have to act (as in Bush v. Gore, ___ U.S.
(2000)) if the bill/law goes beyond anything directly connected with the
election of U.S.A. Representatives and U.S.A. Senators.
The States are NOT quite yet dead in the area of holding elections for
President Electors
I also add my standard ANTI-IRV example --
34 HWS
33 SWH
16 WSH
16 WHS
99
If PWS was being used, then S loses -- 50 last place votes.
34 HW
33 WH
16 WH
16 WH
99
H loses -- 65 last place votes
W wins.
H Hitler, S Stalin, W Washington (or another *compromise* choice)
Generally compromise
Adam wrote in part-
Nobody has seriously advocated the use of Condorcet voting in multi-winner
elections.
---
D- Not quite.
Condorcet in the single winner case is the limiting case of Condorcet in the
multiple winner case.
2 or more Test Winners versus Test Loser (Others deemed Other Test
Small Legislative Bodies Proportional Representation Method, 10 April 2002
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A p.r. method for smaller private and public legislative bodies --- no
districts.
[fill the text]
-
Sec..1. The [name of the legislative body] shall consist of [N] Members.
Sec. 2. Each candidate
In a message dated 4/9/02 6:19:42 PM, you wrote:
My hometown, Oshkosh, WI, used what appears to be the equivalent of an
Approval
Vote in the last City Council election. There were 4 candidates for 3 seats in
an at-large (multi-winner) district, and the ballot instructed voters to Vote
for not
Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation Method, 8 Apr 2002
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[optional/ fill the blank]
Sec. 1. (a) The [Name of Legislative Body] shall consist of [T] Total Members
elected for [1] year terms from [T/5] districts [(dropping fractions)] formed
at least [36] weeks before
Alex wrote in part-
Prospects for reform: 2 pages. Cite examples of states with strong third
parties, a numerical estimate of how many races were thrown by spoilers in
2000, and find out which states allow (a) state-wide or local ballot
measures initiated by voters and (b) counties and
Donald asked --
Why is it that some examples on this list use names like Hilter, Stalin,
and, of course, names like Favorite, Compromise, and Worst?
-
D- Answer -- because some folks have enough brains to see that IRV will
promote EXTREMIST candidates and use *harsh* examples.
D- Having a gerrymander stacked deck is always nice for an incumbent.
Abolish the infamous Electoral College NOW.
Democracy Remedy-- One person- One Vote for U.S.A. President who is
supposed to be the President of ALL of the People of the U.S.A. and NOT just
the President of the People
Josh asked-
Is there any way to sum the House and Senate over/under representation
figures?
---
D- It depends a bit.
Votes for losers in gerrymander/ plurality areas are obviously ALL *wasted*
-- under-represented votes.
Votes more than the votes for the second place choice are *wasted*
Primary Votes of new U.S.A. Representatives and U.S.A. Senators, 2000 Election
The below ONLY is for new members with reported primary votes.
PV Primary (or top 2 Runoff Primary) election votes
GV General election votes
Pct - PV as percent of GV
U.S.A. Representatives 2000 Election
Origin of clones-
N1 A B
N2 B A
N Total votes
C comes along
C *may* beat -
A
B
A and B
neither A or B (is beat by both A and B).
The degree of beatings may, of course, vary --- by 1 vote to 100 percent of
the votes.
One can not obviously detect if a beating is due to internal
http://www.fec.gov/pages/VSSAPRegnotice.htm
Register Now for the
2002 Voting Systems Standards and
Advisory Panel Meetings
The Federal Election Commission's Office of Election
Administration invites you to attend a meeting introducing the updated
Voting Systems Standards
U.S.A. Government Elections, Seats Percentages versus Votes Percentages, by
States, 2001-2003
-
Each Democrat, Republican, Other/Nonvotes column is the Seats Percentages
minus the Votes Percentages for the office involved.
Or, in other words the
ALL methods have problems with 3 or more choices due to having divided
majorities (if there is no first choice majority).
2 examples -- Initial votes in each example
26 AB
25 BA
49 Z
100
34 ABC
33 BCA
32 CAB
99
Who, if anybody, has a YES majority ???
If the initial polls do show
Alex wrote in part-
It is not unreasonable to assume this profile:
30% Bill George Ross
7% Bill Ross George
25% Ross George Bill
6% Ross Bill George
25% George Bill Ross
7% George Ross Bill
The runoff is between Slick Bill and Papa George. 25% of the electorate
defects
Quebec Considers U.S.-Style Political Reforms
QUEBEC (AP) - Quebec is considering major democratic reforms to give the
province a U.S.-inspired republican system unseen in Canadian history, the
government announced Thursday.
Possible measures include an independently elected head of
Alex wrote in part-
Saari pointed out that cyclic ambiguities come from a Condorcet profile
or symmetric profile. If the electorate consists of 3 groups
35 ABC
33 BCA
32 CAB
we can decompose the electorate into
32 ABC + 3 ABC
32 BCA + 1 BCA
32 CAB
D- Selectively ignoring ANY
SB wrote in part-
First, I thank you for the reference to another book on Hitler' rise to power.
I hope to get my hands on it. In the meantime, let me post a little excerpt
from the booklet, the 31st in a series of Public Policy Pamphlets published
by the University of Chicago Press, which I
Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation System
28 Mar 2002
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[optional/ fill the blank]
Sec. 1. (a) The [Name of Legislative Body] shall consist of [T] Total Members
elected for [1] year terms from [T/5] to [T/6] districts formed at least
[280] days before an Election
Limited voting is only useful in areas with primitive voting systems (like
the U.S.A. ???).
BUT -- ANY pro-Democracy reform is better than none --- especially to end the
minority rule gerrymander/ plurality regimes in the U.S.A. Congress and every
State Legislature.
SB wrote
I just read a very interesting little book (or booklet) which makes a
plausible
case that the election of Hitler and Mussolini was due to the proportional
representation system then used in Germany and Italy (Hermens, F. A.,
_Democracy and Proportional Representation_, University of
The CVD website at
http://www.fairvote.org/
has some links to info about recent IRV elections.
In a message dated 3/25/02 9:51:35 AM, you wrote:
josh.narins wrote in part-
Are you using the 2000 census for your population data?
I have 490K for Wyoming and many more for D.C. Your last table has Wyoming
behind D.C.
---
D- NO.
PV= PRESIDENT VOTES
Census numbers are irrelevant (and
A report from the outer real world of gerrymanders.
Which State will be the last to have its brand new post- 2000 Census minority
rule gerrymanders in force ???
---
Alaska Court Rejects Redistricting
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - The Alaska Supreme Court rejected the state's
http://www.fec.gov/pages/vss/vss.html
More info about voting systems in the FEC.
Jurij wrote -
Most of the countries draw districts according to the total population.
Some draw them according to the total number of voters (for example
England) but none does it according to the votes cast. The reason is
called equal voting right principle. If the districts would be drawn
Proportional Representation System with Hare Quotas
There happens to be a very strong (but wrong) fixation with having 1 vote per
seat in legislative bodies.
A candidate will directly (or indirectly) get more than, equal to or less
than the Total Votes/ Total Seats ratio (aka Hare Quota).
In
The ANTI-Democracy voting power inequalities in the below produce the U.S.A.
government laws and treaties (along with the gerrymanders for electing U.S.A.
Representaties in States having 2 or more seats and the special interest gang
plurality/ top 2 runoff nominations of the later winners).
Proportional Representation System with Hare Quotas
22 Mar 2002
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
There is a very strong fixation with having 1 vote per seat in legislative
bodies.
A candidate will initially get more than, equal to or less than the Total
Votes/ Total Seats ratio.
The excess votes (or
BASIC PARTS OF THE BRITISH COLUMBIA (CANADA) GREEN PARTY PROPORTIONAL
REPRESENTATION PROPOSAL FEB. 2002
http://elections.bc.ca/init/i2002.html
Initiative to Establish a Proportional Representation Electoral System
Petition number:IP-2002-001
Proponent's name: Adriane Carr
--
D- The
With Proxy P.R. there can be some sort of semi-permanent districts -- 1 or
more political subdivisions or part of 1 subdivision.
Proxy P.R. = Each winner has a voting power in the legislative body equal to
the number of votes that he/she finally receives (directly and from losers).
At least 2
Adam wrote in part-
These are valid concerns, which, along with practical voting and counting
concerns, argue against very large districts. On the other hand, if you have
small districts you don't get real proportionality. In my opinion, you have
to
have at least 5 or 6 seats in a district
D- Locke in the below is referring to the old depopulated *rotten boroughs*
dating from the early Middle Ages (having very few voters controlled by a
very few landlords -- many in the House of Lords) used to elect many members
of the English House of Commons.
It was not until the 1833 U.K.
D- A story from reality land
---
Wall Street Journal
JOHN FUND'S POLITICAL DIARY
Red-Light District
It's time to draw the line on gerrymandering.
Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:01 a.m. EST
Every census sets off a new round of political mischief called
gerrymandering. For the past
In view of some recent comments --- comments from the Supremes about the
Equal Protection Clause are below.
The lower courts are in a state of chaos pending more EPC opinions from the
Supremes in the voting rights area.
Good luck to anybody attacking IRV or for that matter plurality in the
An example of at large voting in a fading away former major city.
-
Detroit, Mich. City Council election Nov. 2001
Nonpartisan, Vote for 9 at most, Top 9 elected
Percent of Total voters
67.5 1
63.9 2
63.2 3
63.0 4
55.5 5
50.6 6
45.5 7
45.1 8
36.6 9
--
35.8 10
29.2
March 11, 2002
To: Friends of Fair Elections
Fr:Rob Richie, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Executive Director
Center for Voting and Democracy, www.fairvote.org
Takoma Park, Maryland
Re: - Ground-breaking wins for instant runoff voting
- Links and news shorts
(This
Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part-
Approval is much better than one would expect a nonranked method to be.
---
D- Approval is simply YES.
Two or more choices may get YES majorities -- thus requiring Head to Head
(Condorcet).
Since there may not be a CW, then some sort of tiebreaker is needed.
Most
D- More info about IRV in SF from another list
-
Original Message Follows
From: Bill Gram-Reefer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: IRV in SF and beyond
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:17:12 -0800
Hello Wayne,
Legs are growing under IRV!
Below find a press
Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part-
Here are some things that I'd check for [if IRV is used]:
1. A result that, when published, would show some people reason to
regret that they didn't bury their favorite by ranking a compromise
over him.
2. A violation of Monotonicity or Participation
3. A
In a message dated 3/8/02 9:47:36 AM, you wrote:
jure.toplak wrote-
Seven years ago I studied in US and I obtained driving license there. Of
course, I am not a US citizen. Last week I received a voter registration
form. If I fill it out and return it, does that mean that I can vote?
D-
Mr. Small wrote in part-
We could say that the 32 people with CAB, combined with 32 of those in
each of the other categories, cancel out. It would be like saying in a 2-
way race that 40 ballots cast for A cancel out 40 of the ballots cast for
B, leaving an excess of 20 ballots for B.
From CVD---
--
(Greetings to CVD members. We are preparing
to send this out through our new bulk email program,
but it's proving a little balky, so we'd at least like to
make sure this very good news reaches all of you!
Please feel encouraged to share it as you see fit
And thanks
Mr Schulze wrote-
every election method that meets the majority criterion is
vulnerable to compromising In so far as a voter will
usually approve at least that candidate who gets this
voter's first preference, you cannot circumvent this
incompability by using some hybrid method that requires
26 AB
25 BA
49 CX
100
Who wins (with or without insincere /strategic votes) ??? OR -- the
mysterious case of solving for X (= A and/or B, anywhere from zero to 49)
Any answers from Mr LeGrand or Mr Ossipoff ???
Mr. LeGrand wrote in part-
98:AbbyCoraErinDaveBrad
64:BradAbbyErinCoraDave
12:BradAbbyErinDaveCora
98:BradErinAbbyCoraDave
13:BradErinAbbyDaveCora
125:BradErinDaveAbbyCora
124:CoraAbbyErinDaveBrad
76:CoraErinAbbyDaveBrad
21:DaveAbbyBradErinCora
30:DaveBradAbbyErinCora
D- Another *hammer* order from the courts -- like Bush v. Gore, ___ U.S. ___
(2000).
-
Los Angeles Times
State Ordered to Replace Old Vote Machines
By Henry Weinstein
February 14, 2002
A federal judge in Los Angeles on Wednesday ruled that California has to
replace outmoded punch-card
There is a certain degree of mystification about YES majority votes in the 3
or more choices single winner case.
ANY choice will or will not get a YES majority.
If 2 or more choices get YES majorities, then Condorcet (head to head) math
can be done for them.
If such Condorcet (head to head)
Could you post those examples where RP and not SSD produces those
seemingly undesirable results?
I can't find those old messages in my archives, but here's a very simple
example:
49: Bush
24: Gore
27: Nader,Gore
Bush beats Nader 49-27
Nader beats Gore 27-24
Gore beats Bush 51-49
With ranked
http://users.erols.com/aejohns/node4.htm
Another recent site about election methods.
How many X's and check marks in the main table ???
---
See also the starting page at
http://users.erols.com/aejohns/
and especially the Contests link.
Adams latest example-
49: Bush
12: Gore, Bush
12: Gore, Nader
27: Nader,Gore
Bush beats Nader 61-39
Nader beats Gore 27-24
Gore beats Bush 51-49
---
D- Now there is a circular tie.
Again- who, if anybody, has a YES majority ???
Mr. LeGrand wrote in part-
The term clones refers to candidates who are together on every ballot in an
election. In other words, on no ballot does any other candidate separate
them.
(Markus has a good formal definition.) The term doesn't imply that the
candidates are actually alike in any
Mr. LeGrand wrote-
Who deserves to win the following election? Who wins using Borda?
11:BrowneBushBuchananGoreNader
2:BuchananBushBrowneNaderGore
8:BushBrowneBuchananGoreNader
16:BushBuchananBrowneGoreNader
12:BushBuchananBrowneNaderGore
17:GoreNaderBrowneBushBuchanan
D- The followup result.
--
Miller Wins Dallas Mayoral Election
By SUSAN PARROTT
DALLAS (AP) - Former city councilwoman Laura Miller easily won the hotly
contested race for mayor of the nation's ninth largest city Saturday night.
With all precincts reporting, Miller had 55 percent of
asmall wrote in part-
What do people think of some sort of rounding scheme to prevent a national
recount in the event of a popular presidential election?
(And yes, Demorep, I agree that the EC is evil, I'm just pondering the best
replacement for it.)
D- At least 2 of us on this list
Forest wrote-
Perhaps using an L_n norm with n somewhere between 2 and infinity (which
corresponds to the max norm that yields regular CR which is strategically
equivalent to Approval) would be a good compromise. The n could be
adjusted to take into account the relative importance of
D -- Reality check -- a real world runoff election --- not sure of the cost
for it (versus the cost of having ANY sort of accurate single winner method).
How much *ballot-tampering and endorsement-buying* would there be with a
single winner method -- more ? less ? same ?
--
Dallas to Pick
That doesn't solve the problem. But it does give a starting point for
arguing about what standards are valuable, and what assumptions are
reasonable, and then what procedure is implied from various standards
and assumptions.
---
D - One obvious standard --- getting a desired (plus compromise, if
Forest wrote-
Wouldn't we all agree that the best democratic method is to give the win
to the candidate with the majority of votes, whether or not the voters
have actually based their votes on fact, fiction, or superstition?
If we cannot resolve the two candidate case, then we have no hope of
A historical note -- since I have used Mr. H. in my anti- IRV examples.
For younger folks --- about 55-60 million folks died in World War II thanks
to Hitler in Germany and Hirohito in Japan-- both tyrant killers on the all
time killer tyrants list.
-
Adam wrote in part-
In list PR, the candidate lists for parties have to be formed well in
advance of the election. It would be very difficult for a party to foresee
a specific voting breakdown, and split their party into two or more parties
to take advantage of this.
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D - Any historical
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