: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:07 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Off] Ballscrew Support?
2012/7/23 Todd Zuercher to...@pgrahamdunn.com:
Our first of these two machines actually had the racks and pinions replaced
while still under factory warranty. We are only
Greetings,
So I just got a response from my ballscrew vendor. They can supply a 40mm
diameter with 40mm pitch (3048 mm long) for a reasonable cost. Less than $1k
including shipping and machining.
Looks like that could safely rotate at 977 RPM which would move the ballnut at
1538 IPM (with
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
Dunno why they said that, I've been running the rack and pinion for a few
years now, as have quite a few others on their machines, and the rack and
pinion works just fine. No resonance, though that's usually a factor
-2105
E-mail: to...@pgrahamdunn.com
630 Henry St.
Dalton, OH 44618
www.pgrahamdunn.com
-Original Message-
From: Mark Wendt [mailto:wendt.m...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:46 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Off] Ballscrew Support?
On Sat, Jul 21
2012/7/23 Todd Zuercher to...@pgrahamdunn.com:
And the quality of the cut at
federates above 200ipm leaves much to be desired compared to our
similarly sized and specked ball screw driven machines. To give them
credit we are using them much harder than they were designed for, we
run'em 24hr
On 07/23/2012 03:05 AM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
So I just got a response from my ballscrew vendor. They can supply a 40mm
diameter with 40mm pitch (3048 mm long) for a reasonable cost. Less than $1k
including shipping and machining.
Looks like that could safely rotate at 977 RPM which would
On 22 July 2012 23:32, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
Has anyone successfully machined the parts required?
A variant, yes:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9gDwFeKRO-e7uH17gD0ru9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:28 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Off] Ballscrew Support?
2012/7/23 Todd Zuercher to...@pgrahamdunn.com:
And the quality of the cut at
federates above 200ipm leaves much to be desired compared to our
similarly sized and specked ball
2012/7/23 Todd Zuercher to...@pgrahamdunn.com:
Our first of these two machines actually had the racks and pinions replaced
while still under factory warranty. We are only cutting MDF with them (just
lots of it). The flaws I see with the machines are, spring loaded engagement
of the pinion
On 22 July 2012 03:16, John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm wrote:
The main problem is that force is transferred between belts by
only one or two teeth - the ones directly under the idler pulleys.
Making the idler pulleys as large as possible would improve that
a bit.
The Bell-Everman
I'm using their kit on my bamboo CNC saw beveler, with the rack purchased
from Boston Gears. The setup was pretty easy, and the rack and pinion is
working great on the machine.
Mark
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Greg Bernard yankeelena2...@yahoo.comwrote:
Have you considered rack and
, 2012 6:19 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] [Off] Ballscrew Support?
Greetings,
I am upgrading my machine to handle a full 4x8 foot board of material
(and 5 feet of Z!). The new table is 5x9 feet.
I just received my 3-meter 25mm supported rails and 25mm C7 ballscrews
Todd Zuercher wrote:
Neither, of our 5x10 routers have any support on the long table screws
(12 ft long). But they are large diameter screws, secured, fixed and
stretched in position with a rotating nut moving the table. I think
rotating the nut rather than the screw helps a lot with wip.
On Jul 22, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
Of course, you could also just go the rack-and-pinion route.
The rack teeth should point down to shed dirt and chips.
I don't recall the specifics, but I read somewhere that rack-and-pinon was
not a good solution. Maybe it had something to do
On Jul 22, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
Todd Zuercher wrote:
Neither, of our 5x10 routers have any support on the long table screws
(12 ft long). But they are large diameter screws, secured, fixed and
stretched in position with a rotating nut moving the table. I think
rotating the
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:00:10 -0400, you wrote:
Sag is only the start of the problem. The whip is going to be the real
problem. The ballnut is no holp holding it up at the limits of travel.
Not strictly true - the size needs to be CAREFULLY calculated for the
job in hand and the mounting method
On 20.07.12 16:18, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
I am sure with a 10-foot span that the horizontal ballscrews will sag
a little from gravity. Is this much of a concern? Does anyone know of
a trick to put some kind of support in the middle of the span? I can't
think of any practical way.
One method
2012/7/21 Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net:
In any event, I'd fix a long slender ballscrew, to avoid whipping, and
rotate the nut.
I did this on the last machine I built with this exact intention in my mind.
The overall result - failure. I seriously doubt I will ever do that again.
On 21 July 2012 05:09, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
550 RPMs does not exactly strike me as spinning at high speed. Besides,
wouldn't the gyroscopic force help stabilized oscillations?
No, centrifugal force acts as a positive feedback on any off-centre movement.
As Steve has said,
On 21.07.12 14:41, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
2012/7/21 Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net:
In any event, I'd fix a long slender ballscrew, to avoid whipping, and
rotate the nut.
I did this on the last machine I built with this exact intention in my mind.
The overall result - failure.
For long machines where the cutting forces are not hugely significant (such
as a wood router) could one not used a aircraft cable setup? The cable
could then be run over a motorized pulley.
Something I always thought of but haven't fleshed it out further.
Brian
I am not sure what yo mean by preload/stretch though.
After installing the ballscrew you then put an indicator on the end of the
ball screw with the mag base on the machine base. You then tighten the
bearing preload until you see .007 to .009 stretch of the end of the
ballscrew. I don't know
Hi Jeshua
I am sure with a 10-foot span that the horizontal ballscrews
will sag a little from gravity. Is this much of a concern?
I think for long screws it generally a good idea not to drive the
ball-screws, but the nut. While this will not reduce the sag you
mentioned, it will greatly
On 7/21/2012 8:42 AM, andy pugh wrote:
On 21 July 2012 05:09, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
550 RPMs does not exactly strike me as spinning at high speed. Besides,
wouldn't the gyroscopic force help stabilized oscillations?
No, centrifugal force acts as a positive feedback on any
2012/7/21 Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net:
Of the other machines that you've built, do any have a horizontal
ballscrew as long and slender as this one, spun at similar speeds?
That was the first time I used ballscrews, so I have no other
experiece to compare with.
For the next
Jeshua Lacock wrote:
On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote:
Sag is only the start of the problem. The whip is going to be the real
problem.
Hi Stephen,
I am not sure I understand what you mean by whip?
Long, thin shafts tend to whip when spun at high speeds.
On Saturday 21 July 2012 11:45:42 andy pugh did opine:
On 21 July 2012 05:09, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
550 RPMs does not exactly strike me as spinning at high speed.
Besides, wouldn't the gyroscopic force help stabilized oscillations?
No, centrifugal force acts as a positive
Jeshua Lacock wrote:
It looks like over a 10 foot span I have about 24mm (0.96 inches) of sag in
the middle.
10 foot span? 25 mm diameter? Oh, my, that sounds WAY past the safe range.
See http://www.nookindustries.com/ball/BallCalculators.cfm#CriticalSpeed
for a critical speed
Jeshua Lacock wrote:
On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
Andy's solution is the correct solution. A string will fold under
compression. This will allow the supports to collapse together when the nut
moves their direction on the screw. The string will pull the supports
)
From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:18 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] [Off] Ballscrew Support?
Greetings,
I am upgrading my machine to handle a full 4x8 foot board of material (and 5
feet
On Jul 21, 2012, at 9:50 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
Jeshua Lacock wrote:
It looks like over a 10 foot span I have about 24mm (0.96 inches) of sag in
the middle.
10 foot span? 25 mm diameter? Oh, my, that sounds WAY past the safe range.
See
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 14:41:01 +0300, you wrote:
2012/7/21 Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net:
In any event, I'd fix a long slender ballscrew, to avoid whipping, and
rotate the nut.
I did this on the last machine I built with this exact intention in my mind.
The overall result - failure.
On 21 July 2012 23:04, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
At 5cm/rev that is 547 IPM. I think I could happily live with that.
That's a very high-lead ballscrew. I haven't seen any balls crews with
a pitch twice the diameter. Are you sure you are not a factor of 10
out?
--
atp
If you can't
On Jul 21, 2012, at 5:49 PM, andy pugh wrote:
On 21 July 2012 23:04, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
At 5cm/rev that is 547 IPM. I think I could happily live with that.
That's a very high-lead ballscrew. I haven't seen any balls crews with
a pitch twice the diameter. Are you sure
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012, at 06:04 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
Damn. Anyone want to buy two brand new ballscrews?
:D
Maybe I will use them on a laser cutter instead. High speed is not as
important to me on a laser cutter as it is on a 3D milling machine. Path
lengths are *much* longer doing
@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Off] Ballscrew Support?
On Jul 21, 2012, at 5:49 PM, andy pugh wrote:
On 21 July 2012 23:04, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
At 5cm/rev that is 547 IPM. I think I could happily live with that.
That's
On Jul 21, 2012, at 5:49 PM, andy pugh wrote:
On 21 July 2012 23:04, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
At 5cm/rev that is 547 IPM. I think I could happily live with that.
That's a very high-lead ballscrew. I haven't seen any balls crews with
a pitch twice the diameter. Are you sure
On Jul 21, 2012, at 6:24 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
n Sat, Jul 21, 2012, at 06:04 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
Damn. Anyone want to buy two brand new ballscrews?
:D
Maybe I will use them on a laser cutter instead. High speed is not as
important to me on a laser cutter as it is on a 3D
-users] [Off] Ballscrew Support?
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012, at 06:04 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
Damn. Anyone want to buy two brand new ballscrews?
:D
Maybe I will use them on a laser cutter instead. High speed is not as
important to me on a laser cutter as it is on a 3D milling machine. Path
lengths
Theres a commercial version of this or something very close (with I think
special belts) but my google foo is failing me now
Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
Ahh here it is:
http://bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl
Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
I also remembered seeing a more commercial version of that somewhere,
but like you I couldn't find it. When I found that forum post I stopped
looking :)
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012, at 05:47 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Theres a commercial version of this or something very close (with I think
On Jul 21, 2012, at 6:47 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Ahh here it is:
http://bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl
Thats pretty cool.
I wonder what keeps the belts together? Gravity?
Cheers,
Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated
http://3DTOPO.com
The idler pulleys push them together on either side of the pinion,
which is where the force is transferred from the upper belt to
the lower one. The lower one is glued to the machine frame along
its entire length, so the force is then transferred to the frame.
Neither belt has any significant
andy pugh wrote:
On 21 July 2012 23:04, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
At 5cm/rev that is 547 IPM. I think I could happily live with that.
That's a very high-lead ballscrew. I haven't seen any balls crews with
a pitch twice the diameter. Are you sure you are not a factor of
Greetings,
I am upgrading my machine to handle a full 4x8 foot board of material (and 5
feet of Z!). The new table is 5x9 feet.
I just received my 3-meter 25mm supported rails and 25mm C7 ballscrews.
I am sure with a 10-foot span that the horizontal ballscrews will sag a little
from gravity.
On 20 July 2012 23:18, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
I am sure with a 10-foot span that the horizontal ballscrews will sag a
little from gravity. Is this much of a concern? Does anyone know of a trick
to put some kind of support in the middle of the span? I can't think of any
Sag is only the start of the problem. The whip is going to be the real
problem. The ballnut is no holp holding it up at the limits of travel.
Stephen
However, typically the screw won't be able to sag, as it will be held
up by the ballnut.
Back in 1885 they fixed the problem with two U shaped supports on levers
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2001/2001_05_08_Claymills/P1010003.JPG
on the lower left you see a shaft beside the rail the crane is on
you can see a catch lever that operates the mechanism below the
On 21 July 2012 01:43, Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com wrote:
Back in 1885 they fixed the problem with two U shaped supports on levers
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2001/2001_05_08_Claymills/P1010003.JPG
That is conceptually similar to what I suggested.
I also
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 2:08 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
On 21 July 2012 01:43, Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com wrote:
Back in 1885 they fixed the problem with two U shaped supports on levers
Jeshua Lacock wrote:
Greetings,
I am upgrading my machine to handle a full 4x8 foot board of material (and 5
feet of Z!). The new table is 5x9 feet.
I just received my 3-meter 25mm supported rails and 25mm C7 ballscrews.
I am sure with a 10-foot span that the horizontal ballscrews will
On 21 July 2012 02:32, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
Apply tension to the screws through the frame of the machine?
A linear rail and several supports tied to the carriage and each other
with string, utilising the pathetic performance of string in
compression to advantage.
--
atp
If
On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote:
Sag is only the start of the problem. The whip is going to be the real
problem.
Hi Stephen,
I am not sure I understand what you mean by whip?
The ballnut is no holp holding it up at the limits of travel.
My thoughts too.
Cheers,
On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Dave Caroline wrote:
A box of pictures is awol at the moment when I find it I will scan a
better picture I think I have
Hi Dave,
Sounds interesting, but I am afraid I don't quite grasp the concept. I am a
visual learner and the concept is quite clear from those
On Jul 20, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Apply tension to the screws through the frame of the machine?
Hi Jon,
Interesting! I wonder how much tension it would need - seems like a quite a
lot. Seems like the shaft would slide off or damage the bearings before
adequate tension was
On Jul 20, 2012, at 7:40 PM, andy pugh wrote:
On 21 July 2012 02:32, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
Apply tension to the screws through the frame of the machine?
A linear rail and several supports tied to the carriage and each other
with string, utilising the pathetic
whipping around. You have a long thin rod that will be spun at high
speed. Its going to act like a jump rope ;) Im told long machines hold
the screw stationary and spin the nut to solve that problem.
I am not sure I understand what you mean by whip?
On Friday 20 July 2012 22:45:54 Jeshua Lacock did opine:
On Jul 20, 2012, at 7:40 PM, andy pugh wrote:
On 21 July 2012 02:32, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
Apply tension to the screws through the frame of the machine?
A linear rail and several supports tied to the carriage and
On 21 July 2012 03:47, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
A linear rail and several supports tied to the carriage and each other
with string, utilising the pathetic performance of string in
compression to advantage.
I have this mental picture of Andy, with the equivalent of a whole can
Andy's solution is the correct solution. A string will fold under
compression. This will allow the supports to collapse together when the nut
moves their direction on the screw. The string will pull the supports along
with the nut and allow the supports to space themselves along the screw
with the
On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
I have this mental picture of Andy, with the equivalent of a whole can of
Skoal in his cheek, but its not Skoal, its his tongue. ;-)
Hi Gene,
I sensed sarcasm, but I was too dim to make full sense of what Andy was saying!
;)
Best,
Jeshua
On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote:
whipping around. You have a long thin rod that will be spun at high
speed. Its going to act like a jump rope ;) Im told long machines hold
the screw stationary and spin the nut to solve that problem.
Hi Stephen,
It is easy for me to
On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
Andy's solution is the correct solution. A string will fold under
compression. This will allow the supports to collapse together when the nut
moves their direction on the screw. The string will pull the supports along
with the nut and
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