EV digest 7035
EV Digest 7035 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before? by Mike Willmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: Information needed please. by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) seeking comments on EV motor sizing by Michael Mohlere [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) RE: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by Dave Cover [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) prestolite 4001 vs 4002 vs ADC 8 by Michael Mohlere [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) batteries: another increasing range question by [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: prestolite 4001 vs 4002 vs ADC 8 by Bob Bath [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors by Matt Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) RE: better battery option for AC Geo Metro? by Dale Ulan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: batteries: another increasing range question by joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: batteries: another increasing range question by Bob Bath [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by storm connors [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing by Jeff Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Dead EV batteries, OK for solar or other uses? by Deanne Mott [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) RE: Tropica Reducer by Bukosky, Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Michael Mohlere [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Information needed please. by Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- I'm running a 400A fuse with my Z1K. If your pack voltage is significantly higher than the motor's limit of around 170 VDC, then the motor current will limit out first and the battery current will never stay (or even get to) its 1000A max. With my 192V pack I would hit close to 1000 from the batteries only for a couple seconds during a hard acceleration. I never blew the fuse and even the 250A breakers only popped once after 4 or 5 hard back-to-back acceleration runs for 0-60 mph times. The fuse still held. I would suspect the 600A fuse that was shown would be plenty for daily driving and may well hold a couple thousand amps for few couple seconds. Mike, Anchorage, Ak. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of RobAmy Smith Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:44 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before? This does bring up a good question. Whats a good rule of thumb for fuse sizing? My understanding was these types of fuses are pretty slow to blow, and need to be undersized relative to peak amps (but well over cruising amps) to reliably go in the event of a problem. I seem to recall some folks running 400A fuses in their pack with a Z1k. Does that sound right, or did I misunderstand? Rob ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Transistors were still pretty new in 1960. I don't think the first SCR DC motor controller was developed until the late 60's. However, I don't know for sure when the first SCR DC motor controller was developed. I found a pattent for a patent for a low power SCR controller for AC devices, the patent was from 1965. It's the earliest SCR bsed controller I could find. I don't think transistors were developed enough in the early '60s for a transistor based controller. The motor controller is a strictly electromechanical affair Really? Wikipedia claims that the Henney Kilowatt is transistor-regulated) On 7/17/07, Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, July 16, 2007 10:40 pm, Joseph T. wrote: Cool, the first electric car to have modern electronics. Actually, there are no modern electronic components in the Kilowatt that I know of, besides perhaps the charger (not sure, haven't opened one up). The motor controller is a strictly electromechanical affair, with a bank of contactors located behind the back seat cushion, which are actuated by a clever little cam surrounded by switches. As the throttle cable is pulled by the pedal, it rotates the cam which then actuates the switches as necessary. The switches control the contactors and the battery pack is thus placed in 4 different voltage configurations (lowest voltage includes a resistor) depending on the position of the throttle. A classic contactor controller design. It's somewhat entertaining to drive a Kilowatt at night with the cushion removed and the contactors exposed. The flashes can get pretty bright. :-) -- Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EV digest 7036
EV Digest 7036 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Jeff Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by Eric Poulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Test by BrownGassyTurd [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: Test by Dmitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Conflicting Pattents ? by Steven Lough [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Th!nk - Can it PASS the Crash TEST ?? by Steven Lough [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? by Bukosky, Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Re: Information needed please. by Aaron Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: Information needed please. henney kilowatt by keith vansickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: Audio interference in EV by Brian Pikkula [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Test by kevin conley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: Conflicting Pattents ? by Jeff Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: Test by BrownGassyTurd [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by storm connors [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Battery Problems by John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) LPI paddle charger parts - #2 by Steve Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by Deanne Mott [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors by MIKE WILLMON [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before? by Ricky Suiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: Conflicting Pattents ? by lyle sloan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Land of the Midnight Run by John Wayland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) Re: Test by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before? by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) Re: EV's need sleep mode by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) Re: batteries: another increasing range question by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Hey all One other thing here, Mike likes to flip me a lot of greif here on the list, so I built him a motor that he'll have to install without touching, just to get EVen, LMAO! Cya Jim Husted Hi-Torque Electric Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Well Michael, Depends. I know the MTC well. Not much about the ADC 8. The MTC-4001 replaced a 9 Baldor in the Jet Ind ElectraVan and put the 9 to shame. But the Baldor 9 was an easy target. The MTC-4002 is the same winding as MTC-4001 with some mechanical difference. MTC defines the elctromagnetics of the Prestolite motor. Which I know was very good for the MTC. That 33 slot lamination was exceptional. Great efficiency. Like I said, I don't know the ADC motor. But I suspect that it has a different winding with more slots, making it higher torque/slower speed for a given current. So, for equivalent vehicle performance between the two motors, you'd have to gear differently. And, depending on brush advance, chances are the ADC would commutate better at higher voltage. At a given power output, I'd bet MTC to have higher efficiency. But, a few percent can get lost in the mix. You really have to get the motor curves and hack it out for your application. Barring all that work, get the one most available and least costly, and work your vehicle system around it. Jeff --- Michael Mohlere [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I should pare down the question: I was hoping a seasoned EV veteran could give me an opinion as to the difference between a Prestolite MTC-4002 and an ADC 8 would the difference be negligible? Would an EV w/ a Prestolite 4002 be preferable to one w/ an ADC 8 or vice versa - I realize the ADC is the more modern version, so the Prestolite would be older, but in terms of performance.. Sorry about beating this horse to death!!! While I'm at it, anyone installed aftermarket a/c in an EV before...looking for comments. Thanks, Mike From: Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Hey Jeff, all Great write up Jeff 8^) Now lets add to this mess with whether two smaller motors are better than one larger. The larger motor will generally be more eff, but when using two motors you get the benifit of a series / parallel shift as well as generally higher rpm ability as you state. I've posted several times that a motors mass is an easy (although rough) way for folks to judge a motors abilities. Winding a slot car motor for 240 volts wont get ya an EV motor 8^P
EV digest 7037
EV Digest 7037 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Dead EV batteries, OK for solar or other uses? by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Battery Problems by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: Battery Problems by John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by (-Phil-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) What happened at the races by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: EV's need sleep mode by (-Phil-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: Battery Problems by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) unsubscribe ev by FRED JEANETTE MERTENS [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) RE: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: batteries: another increasing range question by [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Land of the Midnight Run by MIKE WILLMON [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) RE: Audio interference in EV by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Motor control operation including regen by Rod Hower [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Interesting NEV on eBay by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: Audio interference in EV by Paul Compton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) RE: Dead EV batteries, OK for solar or other uses? by Mick Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) RE: batteries: another increasing range question by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: batteries: another increasing range question by David Roden (Akron OH USA) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: The final comparison by David (Battery Boy) Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: EV's need sleep mode by Lawrence Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) RE: batteries: another increasing range question by Dale Ulan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) Re: Th!nk - Can it PASS the Crash TEST ?? by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Deanne Mott wrote: I am wondering if a set of floodies (or other batteries) too dead for an EV will still be good for other uses. It depends on what's wrong with them. They might be too dead for an EV because they have low amphour capacity, or too high an internal resistance, or a high self-discharge rate, or excess water usage, or other problems (dead cells, damaged terminals, cracked or leaking cases, etc.) In particular, I want to set up an off-grid PV solar system for a friend's hunting cabin out in the sticks. I think the most load he'll have is for a water pump. He says he wants 40A (I will double check his requirements) but seems like some day when I kill my set of T-125's they should still have enough life in them to do that... The best situation would be that your EV batteries work fine, but don't have enough amphour capacity any more -- say, you need 40 miles range, but they only deliver 30 miles so you need to replace them. Another possibility (mainly with gels or AGMs) is that overcharging has caused water loss and grid corrosion -- they now have high internal resistance and can't deliver high currents; but they have good amphour capacity with low current loads. If flooded batteries are old or have a lot of cycles on them, they may still work adequately (more than half their amphour capacity remains), but have excessively high end-of charge current and gas a lot. They might work OK in a solar application, but will waste most of your precious solar energy and need frequent watering. Obviously, batteries with bad cells, leaks, or seriously low amphour capacity would be more trouble than they're worth. Recycle them, and get some decent used ones for your friend's PV application. When you take in your old PbA batteries to trade for new ones do you get any money back for them? Yes, you should. Some dealers (crooks) will *charge* you to return the old batteries. But the scrap value of lead is pretty high; an honest dealer or metals recycling place will pay *you* $2 to $5 per battery. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Michael Mohlere wrote: I was hoping a seasoned EV veteran could give me an opinion as to the difference between a Prestolite MTC-4002 and an ADC 8... would the difference be negligible? Would an EV w/ a Prestolite 4002 be preferable to one w/ an ADC 8 or vice versa - I realize the ADC is the more modern version, so the Prestolite would be older, but in terms of performance... In my opinion, the Prestolites are well-made, reliable motors -- probably a bit higher quality than ADC motors. Performance-wise, I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between a Prestolite and ADC motor of the same
EV digest 7038
EV Digest 7038 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: batteries: another increasing range question by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: Th!nk - Can it PASS the Crash TEST ?? by keith vansickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by Mark Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) RE: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum) by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) RE: Battery Problems by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) RE: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Michael Mohlere [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) RE: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Michael Mohlere [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) RE: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: Information needed please. by Steven Trovato [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) RE: Battery Problems by John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Zivan (NG2?) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's? by Ryan Stotts [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Adaptor and Battery Box 4 Sale... by Bart Grabman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: NiMh poor self discharge rate by Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) RE: Battery Problems by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's? by Dave Cover [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) RE: Zivan (NG2?) by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's? by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Zivan (NG2?) by Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: Zivan (NG2?) and AOL... by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's? by Loni [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) Re: The final comparison by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Re: What happened at the races by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) Re: Battery Problems by Jeff Shanab [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8 by R. Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27) Re: Land of the Midnight Run by Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28) Re: Dead EV batteries, OK for solar or other uses? by Richard Krog [EMAIL PROTECTED] 29) Re: Dead EV batteries, OK for solar or other uses? by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 30) RE: Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland Invitational by Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Dale Ulan wrote: The rear suspension arrangement on the old Beetles doesn't help. Weight changes will change the rear alignment dramatically on those. I believe this one was said to be a '74, so it ought to have the IRS transaxle and not suffer from this. It likely has problems at the opposite end, as it probably has the SuperBeetle MacPherson strut front suspension instead of the torsion bar front end. I believe Neon mentioned his buggy was running the swingaxle transaxle, and I believe while the alignment might vary more with suspension travel, this transaxle is likely considerably more efficient. (They have a single inboard fulcrum plate joint per axle instead of 2 CV joints, and both the inboard joint and outboard wheel bearings are lubed by tranny oil inside the axle housings while the CV joints and wheel bearings on the IRS drivetrain are lubed with grease. Everything has its tradeoffs! ;^) Cheers, Roger. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- When ford sold these they were freeway legal and one would assume that they had passed the crash test then butt you know about ass u me --- Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you referring to the Th!nk City, or the Th!nk Neighbor? Z On 7/17/07, Steven Lough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Th1nk EV seems to be gaining some traction, with new investors jumping in, according to several sources and news briefs. Does any one know whether the car itself will ever pass muster with the US crash-worthy standards ?? Or will it just be another 25 mph NEV ?? -- Steven S. Lough, Pres. Seattle EV Association 6021 32nd Ave. N.E. Seattle, WA 98115-7230 Day: 206 850-8535 Eve: 206 524-1351 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.seattleeva.org Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Well Roger, here you go. http://bp3.blogger.com/_xouyKpqe9U4/RnP8CH8WfII/ADM/48c3-MJf0As/s320/vacuum.jpg My car also monitors transmission fluid temperature, 12v side voltage and total current, as well as inside and outside air temperature. Not really all necessary, but nice features in my opinion. :-) Mark Ward World's first New Generation Saab EV www.saabrina.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Sent: Tuesday,
