Re: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS)
My brother was a defense contractor during the Vietnam war. So I've seen it from that side too. There is a lot of slight of hand going on and it has been going on throughout history. There are just those who are so guarded about their egos that they are afraid what will happen if they play a hunch they have about something and they'll be called conspiracy theorists. If you are truly successful at your meditation then there would be no ego to get hurt if you play a hunch. And a lot of the time these hunches (or intuition) pan out to be right and those that weren't still may turn out to be long after we're gone. Angela Mailander wrote: I love it: Strategy theorist. Maybe people don't know what a conspiracy actually is. Every scandal involving corruption in high places of government or big business is a conspiracy come to light—and haven’t we seen our share of Enrons and Attorney firings, etc. lately? The savings and loan crisis of the eighties was a big conspiracy. Every corporation that sells products dangerous to consumers, the tobacco and the pharmaceutical industries, for example, is a conspiracy against those same consumers. Every secret service of every country is, by definition, a conspiratorial society. If a cardinal launders Mafia money in the Vatican bank, then this, too, is a conspiracy, as are all the secret financial dealings of this, the biggest religious corporation/state in the world. When the CIA, in collusion with Mafia hit-men, attempts to murder Fidel Castro, then you can call that a liberal democratic conspiracy in the name of freedom for all I care, but it is a conspiracy just the same. And when the CIA with the help of the industrial giant ITT and a few military men topples a democratically elected government, in Chile, just for example, then we are dealing with a conspiracy, as we are, too, when this same CIA secretly finances Christian-democratic and Social-democratic political parties in Europe, bribes journalists of free media and allegedly independent newspapers, or establishes secret terrorist commandoes, which, of course, doesn’t say that every conspiracy is necessarily an evil one. If, as happened in 1985 and at the behest of the CIA, it was attempted to smuggle five tons of synthetic drugs from Germany to the U.S. in order to finance the Contras in Nicaragua with the profits then this is a conspiracy. When, for those same reasons, the national security advisor of an American president works together with the drug bosses of Medellin, then this is a conspiracy, even if President Bush Senior under the aegis of the War against Drugs then tries to remove all the witnesses. When America secretly imports Nazi scientists with the help of the Vatican after the war so that they can continue doing what they had been doing (including medical experiments on human beings) what could this possibly be if not a conspiracy? And when international finance with the assistance of the Communist experiment kept half of Europe at the standard of living of developing countries for decades, then this was a conspiracy. The fact that it depends on the goodwill of a few international banks whether or not a government gets credit and thus is allowed to live is a conspiracy against every single citizen who believes in democracy. And the men who met to plan the Federal Reserve System did so as “secretly as any conspirators” by their own published admission. These are just a few of the conspiracies I can come up with off the top of my head, but there literally hundreds more. And nineteen Arabs with box cutters! The dumming-down of America has been especially successful if people can believe that. I've seen what airplanes do when they hit buildings---they never behave as the twin towers did. And building seven was a dead give-away. The targets were symbolic---the whole thing was obvious drama and designed that way for effect. If I were a terrorist seriously interested in harming America, I could bring the food-distribution system to a stand-still with four car bombs and there would be a famine in this land. Conspiracies are nothing special, but are an ordinary part of every day politics. And making the term conspiracy taboo is without a doubt a conspiracy in collusion with the spin meisters and opinion fabricators of the world in the interest of all conspirators and against all free and inquiring spirits. But all the conspiracies I’ve mentioned above are small potatoes compared to Nazi Germany and the New World Order. That conspiracy has consistently been pursuing certain goals for hundreds of years and, possibly, for two thousand years and more, or at least since St. Paul conspired with the court philosopher Seneca to turn the cult of Christianity into a state religion. Winston Churchill, as everyone will agree, was a great spirit, a great politician,
RE: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS)
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS) --- In HYPERLINK mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt whether anyone on this list will react much to this. If it had been a report connected with any Maharishi operation, the posts would have gone on for days about how corrupt and evil the TM movement is. But Amma is likely to get a pass from those here who reserve their most virulent hatred for one who was originally their benefactor. Strange, isn't it? Indeed. From Rick Archer et al there is only thundering silence when it comes to truths about Amma. (Which I question by the way) The gossip, outright lies and rumours are reserved for the Movement. It's called double standards or hypocrecy. It is backfireing on him now. Largely a matter of time, Nabsters. Too little of it to spend much on FFL. The examma group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/examma/) where Bronte is getting this stuff is for folks who just want to wallow around in their own muck. That group states in its description that “Devotee rebuttals” are not permitted. It adds that “This group is tightly moderated to maintain a safe, nurturing environment for expression and discussion,” which means that anyone attempting to rebut the accusations made there will have their posts deleted. A more balanced group is HYPERLINK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zonehttp://groups.yahoo. com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zone, where criticisms are welcome, but open discussion is allowed. Bronte might want to consider posting her stuff there. Like any enlightened person, Amma is both human and cosmic. Your humanness doesn’t disappear when your cosmic nature dawns. When I criticize things MMY has done, it doesn’t mean I don’t regard him as a mahatma. Like MMY, Amma has health problems, although her organization doesn’t try to hide them. She has diabetes, is somewhat overweight, has diminished lung capacity from a bout of viral pneumonia she got several years ago, and is in a lot of pain from the repetitive motion of hugging millions of people. She also has a human personality. Her formal education ended in the 4th grade when her parents took her out of school to become a family servant. So she’s not a refined, education Indian woman like, say, Karunamayi. She’s of a low caste and grew up in a fishing village, so her language is sometimes coarse. She’s known to have a fiery temper, although I’ve never seen it displayed in my 8 years of visiting her. Her favorite movie is “Beethoven,” about the St. Bernard dog, and when she can, she watches an Indian soap opera in which a devotee stars. Regarding accusations of corruption in her organization, there’s a lot of corruption in India. The police and politicians are always on the take. Amma has a large organization with a lot of money flowing through it and she puts a lot of time and attention into making sure that the money is handled responsibly. I’m sure there have been instances where it hasn’t been, but she does what she can to prevent those. There have been suicides in her ashram. Anyone is welcome there. Thousands live there and 10’s of thousands come and go. On several occasions, unstable people have taken their lives. The rumors of some fanatical devotees in New Delhi roughing up some people who wanted to take down their Amma signs may be true for all I know. You’ll find fanatics in any organization, but on the whole, I have found the quality of the people around Amma, especially those closest to her, to be exemplary. Weigh all the dirt you can find with the good that is done: HYPERLINK http://amma.org/humanitarian-activities/index.htmlhttp://amma.org/humanita rian-activities/index.html. Anyway, I’m not the most qualified Amma defender. I just go see her a couple of times a year, and have never been to her ashram in India. People are welcome to post what they like here, but those who really want to get into a serious discussion would probably do best to start it in HYPERLINK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zonehttp://groups.yahoo. com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zone, where they will find people much better informed than I, both pro- and anti-Amma. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 7:54 PM
RE: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS)
Good rap, Archer. I like facts and evidence. Those who accuse me of being a conspiracy nut don't know me very well. My friends, on the other hand, think I'm too much a stickler for facts and evidence. For example, I have never seen any credible evidence that there ever lived a man named Jesus, said to be the Christ. On the other hand, I have seen evidence that virgin birth, the working of miracles, and resurrection have been ascribed to many other so-called avatars. I have seen suggestive evidence that there is such a thing as reincarnation, but no compelling evidence. I have seen suggestive evidence that there might be a God, but no compelling evidence. Same with the gods, and if they do exist, they're assholes in my humble opinion. I have read the book that claims we've been bio-engineered by space aliens, and what a professional historian would say about that book is that there is no direct evidence in it. It is an interpretation of evidence, which is not the same thing as evidence, since it is very easy to give a radically different interpretation of that same evidence. The interpretation is ingenious and possible, but that is not the same as saying it is evidence. I have not read David Icke, so I can't say anything about it, but I suspect that here, too, we are dealing not so much with evidence but with interpretation of evidence; however, I shall keep an open mind about that until I have time to take a closer look---if Bush turns out to be a poisonous lizard, I certainly won't be surprised. I have seen suggestive evidence that there are space aliens, but no compelling evidence. I have seen suggestive evidence that there is life after death, but no compelling evidence. Near death experiences are interesting and suggestive, but near is no cigar. I have seen a student of mine jump to his death from a building and land right in front of my feet. I saw his form made of light jump up from his body. This is evidence of something. But one experience like that is not enough to say just what it is evidence of. I have stood on top of the mountain from which the world of things and the world of thought look like they have but one source. I have also stood on top of the mountain from which the world looks like the world of things and the world of thought can never meet completely. I suspect there are mountain ranges to explore beyond those two peaks. But I would not call any view from any mountain a fact. It is precisely what it says it it is: a view. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of direct evidence that the world of men and women is rife with conspiracies. And until you consider that evidence, calling me a conspiracy nut is just ignorant name-calling; moreover, it is evidence of the lack of education in America that I've been moaning about. My father belonged to a centuries old European ruling class family, and I was expected to marry into such a family when I came of age. I chose not to do so because I knew too much by that time about the conspiracies with which the ruling classes keep the masses in check. My sister chose the path I rejected, and I lived with her in Europe for a year. Heads of governments were regular guests in her home. And again, I saw direct evidence of what had made me reject that life in the first place. We never had dinner guests which didn't require me to be briefed politically ahead of time. a a Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt whether anyone on this list will react much to this. If it had been a report connected with any Maharishi operation, the posts would have gone on for days about how corrupt and evil the TM movement is. But Amma is likely to get a pass from those here who reserve their most virulent hatred for one who was originally their benefactor. Strange, isn't it? Indeed. From Rick Archer et al there is only thundering silence when it comes to truths about Amma. (Which I question by the way) The gossip, outright lies and rumours are reserved for the Movement. It's called double standards or hypocrecy. It is backfireing on him now. Largely a matter of time, Nabsters. Too little of it to spend much on FFL. The examma group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/examma/) where Bronte is getting this stuff is for folks who just want to wallow around in their own muck. That group states in its description that Devotee rebuttals are not permitted. It adds that This group is tightly moderated to maintain a safe, nurturing environment for expression and discussion, which means that anyone
RE: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS)
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:05 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS) Balanced writings. All great masters will be furiously attacked. Probably true. Personally I do not believe in any of the stuff written about Amma, Sai Baba, Muktananda and others. I don’t “automatically” believe them but I am open to the possibility that they are true. I rejected the MMY rumors for 30+ years, then when the evidence became overwhelming, I changed my opinion. Doesn’t mean I totally rejected him, just that I had to throw the new information into the mix and make sense of it all. The irony here Rick is that the rumours you are famous for spreading about Maharishi now is starting to hit your own guru. Different rumors, dude. All rumors are not created equal. It's sad, and you are a part of the problem. It’s not sad, and it’s not a problem. Or it is, and I am. However you wish to see it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 7:54 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS)
Angela Mailander wrote: Gn the other hand, I've seen plenty of direct evidence that the world of men and women is rife with conspiracies. And until you consider that evidence, calling me a conspiracy nut is just ignorant name-calling; moreover, it is evidence of the lack of education in America that I've been moaning about. My father belonged to a centuries old European ruling class family, and I was expected to marry into such a family when I came of age. I chose not to do so because I knew too much by that time about the conspiracies with which the ruling classes keep the masses in check. My sister chose the path I rejected, and I lived with her in Europe for a year. Heads of governments were regular guests in her home. And again, I saw direct evidence of what had made me reject that life in the first place. We never had dinner guests which didn't require me to be briefed politically ahead of time. a Sometimes when I get called a conspiracy theorist I ask people if they don't believe that wealthy people and top level businessmen strategize too? What we often call conspiracies may often be strategies since they are published openly. But I guess calling someone a strategy theorist doesn't quite have the ring they want. :)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: [examma] Re: Facts Evidence (MORE LINKS)
I love it: Strategy theorist. Maybe people don't know what a conspiracy actually is. Every scandal involving corruption in high places of government or big business is a conspiracy come to lightand havent we seen our share of Enrons and Attorney firings, etc. lately? The savings and loan crisis of the eighties was a big conspiracy. Every corporation that sells products dangerous to consumers, the tobacco and the pharmaceutical industries, for example, is a conspiracy against those same consumers. Every secret service of every country is, by definition, a conspiratorial society. If a cardinal launders Mafia money in the Vatican bank, then this, too, is a conspiracy, as are all the secret financial dealings of this, the biggest religious corporation/state in the world. When the CIA, in collusion with Mafia hit-men, attempts to murder Fidel Castro, then you can call that a liberal democratic conspiracy in the name of freedom for all I care, but it is a conspiracy just the same. And when the CIA with the help of the industrial giant ITT and a few military men topples a democratically elected government, in Chile, just for example, then we are dealing with a conspiracy, as we are, too, when this same CIA secretly finances Christian-democratic and Social-democratic political parties in Europe, bribes journalists of free media and allegedly independent newspapers, or establishes secret terrorist commandoes, which, of course, doesnt say that every conspiracy is necessarily an evil one. If, as happened in 1985 and at the behest of the CIA, it was attempted to smuggle five tons of synthetic drugs from Germany to the U.S. in order to finance the Contras in Nicaragua with the profits then this is a conspiracy. When, for those same reasons, the national security advisor of an American president works together with the drug bosses of Medellin, then this is a conspiracy, even if President Bush Senior under the aegis of the War against Drugs then tries to remove all the witnesses. When America secretly imports Nazi scientists with the help of the Vatican after the war so that they can continue doing what they had been doing (including medical experiments on human beings) what could this possibly be if not a conspiracy? And when international finance with the assistance of the Communist experiment kept half of Europe at the standard of living of developing countries for decades, then this was a conspiracy. The fact that it depends on the goodwill of a few international banks whether or not a government gets credit and thus is allowed to live is a conspiracy against every single citizen who believes in democracy. And the men who met to plan the Federal Reserve System did so as secretly as any conspirators by their own published admission. These are just a few of the conspiracies I can come up with off the top of my head, but there literally hundreds more. And nineteen Arabs with box cutters! The dumming-down of America has been especially successful if people can believe that. I've seen what airplanes do when they hit buildings---they never behave as the twin towers did. And building seven was a dead give-away. The targets were symbolic---the whole thing was obvious drama and designed that way for effect. If I were a terrorist seriously interested in harming America, I could bring the food-distribution system to a stand-still with four car bombs and there would be a famine in this land. Conspiracies are nothing special, but are an ordinary part of every day politics. And making the term conspiracy taboo is without a doubt a conspiracy in collusion with the spin meisters and opinion fabricators of the world in the interest of all conspirators and against all free and inquiring spirits. But all the conspiracies Ive mentioned above are small potatoes compared to Nazi Germany and the New World Order. That conspiracy has consistently been pursuing certain goals for hundreds of years and, possibly, for two thousand years and more, or at least since St. Paul conspired with the court philosopher Seneca to turn the cult of Christianity into a state religion. Winston Churchill, as everyone will agree, was a great spirit, a great politician, certainly no dunce, and this great European for sure did not suffer from any sort of paranoia. Yet none other than he (and who, if not Churchill, would have known) spoke unmistakably of an international conspiracy. Similarly, the British Prime Minister between 1874 and 1880, Viscount and Lord Beaconsfield, Benjamin DIsraeli, repeatedly spoke about the existence of a secret and globe-encircling organization and said, The world is governed by completely different personalities than those who cannot see behind the scenes believe. In Nazi Germany those personalities became almost visible. Now, it is true that you have to dig a little to find out what was going on. Books published in English
