Apologies for my late reply, I was gone for a week.
On Aug 1, 2009, at 1:44 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 08:16:50AM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote:
CD in is nothing more than an analog input. PA ignores all the analog
inputs other than as a digital PCM source. Treating all the
On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 20:50 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote:
Which is what I currently do. However, my entry into this foray was
caused by the current maintainer of gst-mixer stating that he would
support it being removed from the default install image and comps.
From there it's a short
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 06:40:12AM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 12:29:36AM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote:
That reading in the data digitally uses non trivial amounts of PCI and
CPU bandwidth. If I can't hear the difference between the two modes,
then that CPU usage
On Sat, 2009-08-01 at 01:01 -0500, Doug Ledford wrote:
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 06:40:12AM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 12:29:36AM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote:
That reading in the data digitally uses non trivial amounts of PCI and
CPU bandwidth. If I can't hear
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 20:20 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mercredi 29 juillet 2009 à 17:49 +0100, Bastien Nocera a écrit :
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:42 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Problem is... removing or disabling PA often -does- solve a problem.
Rather, it works around it. The
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:25 -0500, Dr. Diesel wrote:
PA, how are they going to get fixed? Telepathy?
How long do we expect people to tolerate these bugs before they move
on?
I agree, there's only so long that people are willing to wait. But you
actually have to file a bug
Le vendredi 31 juillet 2009 à 12:54 +1000, Rodd Clarkson a écrit :
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 20:20 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mercredi 29 juillet 2009 à 17:49 +0100, Bastien Nocera a écrit :
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:42 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Problem is... removing or disabling
On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 11:10 +, Thomas Janssen wrote:
I'd like to ask everyone to test this new volume logic. If you don't
raise your voice now that some output port is not properly detected or
audio is too faint then later on you won't have any right to complain.
I think you do what
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 01:01:44AM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote:
It's also things like erratic output via PA versus smooth output via
analog input. This particular laptop pops and crackles every time the
PCM starts/stops, while analog signals are much cleaner.
There's a patch in the rawhide
eOn Sat, 01.08.09 00:41, Doug Ledford (dledf...@redhat.com) wrote:
- and the killer argument: we don't even ship a CD player app that
could make use of the analog CDDA playback path. To my konwledge
there is none in the default install, nor in the entire distro.
And this has
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 08:16:50AM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote:
CD in is nothing more than an analog input. PA ignores all the analog
inputs other than as a digital PCM source. Treating all the analog
inputs as digital sources and not allowing the hardware to mix them to
output has various
2009/7/28 Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de:
snip
I'd like to ask everyone to test this new volume logic. If you don't
raise your voice now that some output port is not properly detected or
audio is too faint then later on you won't have any right to complain.
I think you do what you
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 04:53:25PM -0500, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
Doug Ledford wrote:
Every system I build still keeps the analog signal cable between the
CD/DVD and the soundcard. This doesn't help if I try to watch a movie
as that signal has to be decoded and then played, but for audio CDs
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 12:29:36AM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote:
That reading in the data digitally uses non trivial amounts of PCI and
CPU bandwidth. If I can't hear the difference between the two modes,
then that CPU usage is a total waste of resources. I have other things
I want my CPU to
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:36:38AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 16:53, Matthew Woehlke (mw_tr...@users.sourceforge.net)
wrote:
Doug Ledford wrote:
Every system I build still keeps the analog signal cable between the
CD/DVD and the soundcard. This doesn't help if I
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 01:28:58AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:06, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Doing digital grabbing of is very reliable these days. The analog path
is just completely obsolete.
I guess it's an open
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 09:54:29PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
And also, please paste a dump of amixer -c0 for your HDA card so
that we can see that it includes a CD control.
Sorry, but...
$ cat /proc/asound/cards
0 [Intel ]:
On Jul 29, 2009, at 6:48 AM, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Karel Zak wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:07:32PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 28.07.09 15:48, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Yes. You cannot select them as record source, you cannot mute or
unmute them, you cannot
On Jul 28, 2009, at 2:59 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 28.07.09 14:32, Ben Boeckel (maths...@gmail.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Please note that it is our intention not to wrap obsolete mixer
controls such as CD, PC Speaker, MIDI and so on. If you
file a
bug asking for
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Doug Ledforddledf...@redhat.com wrote:
Agree 1000%. As another kernel engineer that's done sound hardware amongst
other things, if you want to duplicate hardware mixing in my CPU I'm going
to toss you out on your ear. The amount of CPU PA wastes already
Dne Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:35:54 -0400 Dr. Diesel napsal(a):
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 29.07.09 06:48, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Any developer who claims always use software mixing or always
use hardware mixing is a young, inexperienced fool. There are
valid
On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Doug Ledforddledf...@redhat.com
wrote:
Agree 1000%. As another kernel engineer that's done sound hardware
amongst
other things, if you want to duplicate hardware mixing in my CPU
I'm going
to toss you out
Hi,
On Wednesday, 29 July 2009 at 16:19, Ralf Ertzinger wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:39:14 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
But whatever. Just please stop imposing pulseaudio on those who don't
want to use it. For the record, I'm still considering leaving Fedora
because - as
On Wednesday, 29 July 2009 at 17:27, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 16:46 +0200, Michal Schmidt wrote:
Dominik,
if you don't want to use PA, remove only alsa-plugins-pulseaudio, then
the default ALSA output won't be redirected to PA. You can leave
pulseaudio package
On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 16:49 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
Removing pulseaudio daemon from disk would ensure that it cannot be started
behind your back by one sound library or another. Hence my gripe about
not being able to remove it without sacrificing functionality that is not
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:41:34AM -0400, Doug Ledford wrote:
Not hardware up mix/down mixing, but hardware mixing. And as my other
post points out, I make use of it and have no intent of ever not using
it. Right now I simply use gst-mixer to enable the mixing behind PA's
back. I
Doug Ledford wrote:
Every system I build still keeps the analog signal cable between the
CD/DVD and the soundcard. This doesn't help if I try to watch a movie
as that signal has to be decoded and then played, but for audio CDs
it is still a perfectly acceptable means of playing the music. So I'm
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Modern sound card designs don't do hw mixing anymore, it's like
fm synthesis or wavetable audio.
/me misses fm synth :-)
(At least, I'm still looking for something that will turn a MIDI into a
.wav/.ogg/etc that sounds like an SB16... DOS MIDI player in dosbox is
On Thu, 30.07.09 17:09, Matthew Woehlke (mw_tr...@users.sourceforge.net) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Modern sound card designs don't do hw mixing anymore, it's like
fm synthesis or wavetable audio.
/me misses fm synth :-)
(At least, I'm still looking for something that will turn a
On Thu, 30.07.09 16:53, Matthew Woehlke (mw_tr...@users.sourceforge.net) wrote:
Doug Ledford wrote:
Every system I build still keeps the analog signal cable between the
CD/DVD and the soundcard. This doesn't help if I try to watch a movie
as that signal has to be decoded and then played, but
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Doing digital grabbing of is very reliable these days. The analog path
is just completely obsolete.
I guess it's an open question why HDA touts multi-analog and hw mixing
as modern features, then :)
Modern hardware isn't all PCM either...
Jeff
--
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:06, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Doing digital grabbing of is very reliable these days. The analog path
is just completely obsolete.
I guess it's an open question why HDA touts multi-analog and hw mixing
as
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:37, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:06, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Doing digital grabbing of is very reliable these days. The analog path
is just completely obsolete.
I guess
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 17:09, Matthew Woehlke (elided) wrote:
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Modern sound card designs don't do hw mixing anymore, it's like
fm synthesis or wavetable audio.
/me misses fm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:06, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Doing digital grabbing of is very reliable these days. The
analog path
is just completely obsolete.
I guess it's an open
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 16:53, Matthew Woehlke (elided) wrote:
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
The analog path for CDDA is completely broken and obsolete:
- It doesn't work if you have more than one cd drive
Sure it does (assuming
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:37, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:06, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Doing digital grabbing of is very reliable these days. The analog path
is just
On Thu, 30.07.09 20:07, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:37, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 19:06, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Doing digital
Matthew Woehlke mw_tr...@users.sourceforge.net writes:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Thu, 30.07.09 17:09, Matthew Woehlke (elided) wrote:
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
Why on earth not? Your email address is in plain sight in the headers.
- FChE
--
Lennart Poettering said the following on 07/30/2009 04:28 PM Pacific Time:
If you cannot produce anything of that I'd recommend a good ol' cup of
STFU.
Lennart
How much longer are we going to wait to implement
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Hall_Monitor_Policy ?
This is getting really
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 23:55 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
When you mean 'not wrap them', do you mean they're no longer
selectable as a record source, if the hardware exports them?
Yes. You cannot select them as record source, you cannot mute or
unmute them, you cannot change their
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:07:32PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 28.07.09 15:48, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
Please note that it is our intention not to wrap obsolete mixer
controls such as CD, PC Speaker,
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 15:59 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
In the F11 cycle there has been some criticism on how g-v-c was
presenting a new minimal volume control interface. Most issues raised
back then should now be fixed, except for a few which we consider
strictly out of focus for us.
Let me take the chance to thank you, Lennart. Even though PulseAudio has
always been a controversial topic and there are many negative feelings
about it I still think I am not the only one who really enjoys the new
audio and volume control features Fedoa offers. It has really made my
life easier
This reminds me your note:
https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-July/004519.htm
l
PA does not make use of hardware mixing. And I don't plan to change
that. It's obsolete technology. CPUs these days come with extensions
such as MMX or SSE precisely for
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Michal Hlavinka mhlav...@redhat.comwrote:
This reminds me your note:
https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-July/004519.htm
l
PA does not make use of hardware mixing. And I don't plan to change
that. It's obsolete
On Wed, 29.07.09 12:33, Michal Hlavinka (mhlav...@redhat.com) wrote:
This reminds me your note:
https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-July/004519.htm
l
PA does not make use of hardware mixing. And I don't plan to change
that. It's obsolete
On Wed, 29.07.09 09:46, Karel Zak (k...@redhat.com) wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:07:32PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 28.07.09 15:48, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
Please note that it is our
On Wed, 29.07.09 06:48, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Karel Zak wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:07:32PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 28.07.09 15:48, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Yes. You cannot select them as record source, you cannot mute or
unmute
On Wednesday 29 July 2009 15:16:20 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Wed, 29.07.09 12:33, Michal Hlavinka (mhlav...@redhat.com) wrote:
This reminds me your note:
https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-July/004519
.htm l
PA does not make use of hardware
On Wednesday, 29 July 2009 at 15:24, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Wed, 29.07.09 06:48, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Karel Zak wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:07:32PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 28.07.09 15:48, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Yes.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
domi...@greysector.net wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 July 2009 at 15:24, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Wed, 29.07.09 06:48, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Karel Zak wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:07:32PM +0200,
On Wednesday, 29 July 2009 at 15:47, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 15:39 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
snip
It's quite hypocritical of you to use an anti-open-source company
(Creative) as an argument for not supporting hw mixing on one side
and then touting
Dne Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:21:00 +0200 Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
napsal:
But whatever. Just please stop imposing pulseaudio on those who
don't want to use it. For the record, I'm still considering
leaving Fedora because - as a GNOME desktop - it's becoming
unusable without
Hi.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:39:14 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
But whatever. Just please stop imposing pulseaudio on those who don't
want to use it. For the record, I'm still considering leaving Fedora
because - as a GNOME desktop - it's becoming unusable without
pulseaudio.
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Wed, 29.07.09 09:47, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
mixing is certainly the smallest part of it. Plese don't forget that
mixing is not exactly the most complex operation on earth.
Please don't forget that hardware mixing... is more than just mixing.
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 15:13 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
Modern sound card designs don't do hw mixing anymore, it's like
fm synthesis or wavetable audio. It's simply not done in hw
anymore. The only exceptions are cards for gamers, i.e. Creative
cards. And uh, quite frankly those cards
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 15:26 +0200, Michal Hlavinka wrote:
If PA eats a lot of CPU this can have many reasons, most of them have
to do with the latency settings requested by the applications or that
have been configured due to frequent underruns. However the actual
mixing is certainly the
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 16:46 +0200, Michal Schmidt wrote:
Dominik,
if you don't want to use PA, remove only alsa-plugins-pulseaudio, then
the default ALSA output won't be redirected to PA. You can leave
pulseaudio package installed to satisfy the dependencies.
That does mean a PA daemon
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 15:56 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Wed, 29.07.09 09:47, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
mixing is certainly the smallest part of it. Plese don't forget that
mixing is not exactly the most complex operation on earth.
Please don't forget that hardware
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Lennart Poettering wrote:
I'd like to ask everyone to test this new volume logic. If you
don't raise your voice now that some output port is not properly
detected or audio is too faint then later on you won't have any
right to complain.
Is there a way to test this if
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.comwrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 15:56 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Wed, 29.07.09 09:47, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
mixing is certainly the smallest part of it. Plese don't forget that
mixing is not
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 08:51 -0500, Dr. Diesel wrote:
This is supported by the zillions of forum messages asking how to fix
or remove pulseaudio. Not to mention the billion post thread here on
devel.
In my experience, this is a more common pattern:
$POOR_NEWBIE: I have a problem with audio.
Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 08:51 -0500, Dr. Diesel wrote:
This is supported by the zillions of forum messages asking how to fix
or remove pulseaudio. Not to mention the billion post thread here on
devel.
In my experience, this is a more common pattern:
$POOR_NEWBIE: I
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:42 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 08:51 -0500, Dr. Diesel wrote:
This is supported by the zillions of forum messages asking how to fix
or remove pulseaudio. Not to mention the billion post thread here on
devel.
In
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.comwrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:42 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Removing PA is far too often jumped on as the 'obvious' fix for
resolving any kind of audio problem whatsoever. Even if it had nothing
to do with PA in the
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:25 -0500, Dr. Diesel wrote:
How long do we expect people to tolerate these bugs before they move
on?
I don't. However, for those doing support, there's better approaches
than 'disable PA and carry on using the system'. There's some
configuration tweaks you can make to
On Wed, 29.07.09 20:20, Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mail...@laposte.net) wrote:
Le mercredi 29 juillet 2009 à 17:49 +0100, Bastien Nocera a écrit :
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:42 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Problem is... removing or disabling PA often -does- solve a problem.
Rather, it
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.dewrote:
On Wed, 29.07.09 06:48, Jeff Garzik (jgar...@pobox.com) wrote:
Karel Zak wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:07:32PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 28.07.09 15:48, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com)
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:42 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Removing PA is far too often jumped on as the 'obvious' fix for
resolving any kind of audio problem whatsoever. Even if it had nothing
to do with PA in the first place.
And?
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 15:59:58 +0200,
Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
When you test this, please make sure to run version 0.9.16-4.test3 of
PA and 2.27.5 of gnome-media at least. Both are still stuck in Koji,
aren't in Rawhide yet.
mirrors2.kernel.org already has the
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 15:59 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
When you test this, please make sure to run version 0.9.16-4.test3 of
PA and 2.27.5 of gnome-media at least. Both are still stuck in Koji,
aren't in Rawhide yet.
Any plan to push this in F11 at some point ? (even if it stays in
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Please note that it is our intention not to wrap obsolete mixer
controls such as CD, PC Speaker, MIDI and so on. If you
file a
bug asking for those to be wrapped we will disappoint you and
close the bug WONTFIX.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Ben Boeckelmaths...@gmail.com wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Please note that it is our intention not to wrap obsolete mixer
controls such as CD, PC Speaker, MIDI and so on. If you
file a
bug asking for those
On Tue, 28.07.09 16:06, Pierre-Yves (pin...@pingoured.fr) wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 15:59 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
When you test this, please make sure to run version 0.9.16-4.test3 of
PA and 2.27.5 of gnome-media at least. Both are still stuck in Koji,
aren't in Rawhide yet.
On Tue, 28.07.09 14:32, Ben Boeckel (maths...@gmail.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
Please note that it is our intention not to wrap obsolete mixer
controls such as CD, PC Speaker, MIDI and so on. If you
file a
bug asking for those to be wrapped we will disappoint you and
close
On Tue, 28.07.09 15:48, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said:
Please note that it is our intention not to wrap obsolete mixer
controls such as CD, PC Speaker, MIDI and so on. If you file a
bug asking for those to be wrapped we will
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