Re: [Felvtalk] Plans for cats when we die

[Lorrie]

On 04-21, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> I have made arrangements with a no kill shelter in St. Louis to
> take all 3 when I pass.  They will keep up with any meds and
> continue their favorite food.  A member of my church will drive
> them in with their toys, beds, condos, etc.

Are you sure the no-kill shelter will not keep them in cages the rest
of their lives?I would never want this for the  8 rescued cats I
have left. I also hope you, or a friend,  has visited this shelter.
Photos can be deceiving.


> at 78, it is likely I will go first.  have this locked into my will. 

78 seems young to me. I am 86.  

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Hyper thyroid in cats

[Lorrie]

On 04-18, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> Hello everyone,I have a 12 year old former feral who was diagnosed
> with hyper thyroid yesterday.  Herm level is 4.7 and she is on
> meds, 2.5mg of Felimazole morning and evening. I had one cat about
> 10 years ago that we did radioactive iodine.  the isolation was
> very hard on her and she went downhill after she got home,
> bleeding from nose, etc.  don't really want to repeat that.  Homey
> is especially bonded with me and has been my caregiver since my
> heart surgery.  she has alerted me to one time of gasping for air
> in the night and 3 instances of low sugar.  she sleeps plastered to
> my chest and when she is on my lap, holds on to me .  I am very
> attached to her and do not want to loose her so am hoping meds
> work.  my question is: does anyone know of alternative or better
> ways of treating this?

I really feel for you as one of my rescued cats has Hyperthyroid. 
All my cats are rescues, and when I rescue a full grown cat I have 
no idea of it's age. This little girl is at least 14 and most likely
much older according to vet. I've had her ten years, and she is down
to 5 pounds at her last vet visit a month ago. She is taking 2.5mg of
Felimazole morning and evening just like your cat. but she has not
gained an ounce in spite of eating well. Now she is refusing food and
vomiting (just cloudy liquid) and I'm sure she is going to die soon. 
I know she is too old for radioactive iodine and my vet said there
was no other treatment.

My thoughts go out to you. I am 86 and not in good health. I lost
my husband of 43 years just 3 months ago, as well as losing two other
old cats. It is was heart breaking to lose all of them.
  
I send you a hug,

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] FelV

[Lorrie]

> 
> ~~@~@~@~@~@
> 
> *Christ beside me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ within me,
> Christ beneath me, Christ above me. **St. Patrick*
  
This is a group for feline leukemia, not a religious group.

>  Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>  http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Re: [Felvtalk] Diarrhea...

[Lorrie]

This made me wonder if he has IBD. This causes weight loss and
diarrhea. My 15 year old cat has has this.  He was diagnosed  with
this 3 years ago and is on prednisolone and B-12 shots.Lorrie

On 02-24, Pam Doore wrote:
> Hi Bob,  My friend's cat I mentioned was a shelter cat who was treated by
> both of our vets repeatedly and nothing worked. She was fostering and
> finally gave up and took him to her own vet who saw everything that had
> been tried and had not worked and went and did very expensive blood work
> and then came up with the diagnosis the B12 prednisone and hydrolyzed
> protein food. We were both disappointed that neither of the vet practices
> that the cat had been to repeatedly and previously had never even
> considered this condition as a possibility. If she had not adopted him he
> would have been euthanized even though it's a no-kill shelter  Praise the
> Lord different leadership is at the shelter now and that is not a
> possibility anymore.
> 
> My Ally also got picky about food near the end and I definitely don't want
> to mess around with the kitty not eating and doing anything to make them
> even less inclined to eat.
> 
> It would be more expensive but if you could get the script compounded into
> a transdermal to be absorbed through the skin in the ear that would make it
> so the meds were not in the food.  I am very grateful for transdermal
> meds:-D.

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[Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1

[Lorrie]

I agree, I will NOT put my cats through painful invasive proceedures,
but I see so many people in my cat groups who will do ANYTHING to
keep a cat alive, even a very old cat whose time is up.

Lorrie


On 02-23, Pam Doore wrote:
> Thank you Ardy.  I absolutely believe in supportive comfort care.  I pet
> sit and I have watched animals get so many treatments that they hide,
> cringe when you reach even to pet them.  etc.  I can't do that to my babies
> nor would I expect anyone else too.  Glad Topaz is doing well :-D.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Diarrhea (for Bob)

[Lorrie]

Bob,

Bentonite edible white clay and pectin work wonders for diarrhea!
These are natural remedies and the dosage does not have to be exact.
I mix a bit of clay and open a capsule of apple pectin with water and
syringe a 3cc syringe, almost full, into the cats mouth.  It does not
taste bad (no taste) but of course the cat will protest as they
alwayss do :-(   Pet shops or Swanson Viamins carry both products.


Lorrie and ten rescued cats at home.



On 02-22, Ardy Robertson wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> 
> If all else has failed to cure Jerry's diarrhea, you might try an
> extremely old remedy that was used on humans back in the 1930's.
> They used a cast iron frying pan and burned flour in it. I don't
> think they used any oil of any kind - just the flour and possibly a
> small amount of water, and just stir it until it browns and sort of
> burns. Then get him to eat a small amount. Apparently this was
> given to babies who had life-threatening diarrhea when nothing else
> worked.
> 
>  
> 
> I suppose though, if you can't get it stopped, it might be
> something like a parasite causing it? Not surejust trying to
> help 
> 
>  
> 
> Ardy
> 
>  

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Re: [Felvtalk] not receiving e-mails

[Lorrie]

Hi Sandy, I noticed the total lack of messages.. Hopefully this
means none of us are having any problems with our cats at this time.

Lorrie

On 02-21, Sandy wrote:
> Looks like I have not received any e-mail contact since November 2017.  
> 
> 
> Sandy W
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Re: [Felvtalk] FIV

[Lorrie]

I've not seen any posts for weeks, until a few days ago.
I hope this means all our cats are doing well.

BTW - FIV is not at all as dangerous a FelV.

I hope more people adopt these FIV cats, but unfortunately the average
person, who is not well informed, is is just as afraid of FIV.


Lorrie

On 12-27, Amani Oakley wrote:
> Hi Bob
> 
> I have only seen two other posts this past week, other than one I
> posted in reply to one of those two posts. Other than that, I
> haven't received any emails in weeks.
> 
> Amani

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Re: [Felvtalk] Question

[Lorrie]

This is my experience too.  I've had FelV cats who lived to be 8 or 9
and one of my FelV cats is about 11 and still OK.   These cats lived
with many other negative cats.  These were adult cats... I understand
FelV is most dangerous to kittens whose immune systems are not fully
developed.

Lorrie 

On 11-22, Amani Oakley wrote:

> We had a FeLV cat who lived to age 7. No other cat in our house was
> infected, despite the fact that our vet initially said that the
> infection would decimate the house. (We had at least 8 other cats.)
> That was the case event though we never isolated our FeLV little
> boy (it would have been fairly pointless as he had already been in
> the house almost a year by then) and even though he played with and
> groomed several of the other cats in the house. I have since read
> repeatedly that it really isn???t that infectious, especially with
> adult cats. It is more of a risk with young kittens.
> 
> Amani
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Compiled info on Winstrol

[Lorrie]

I'm not on the chat line. Can this be sent to my personal e-mail as a
pdf file?felineres...@frontier.com


Lorrie




On 11-04, kresch...@mchsi.com wrote:
> Hi Amani,
> Yes, send what you have to kresch...@mchsi.com and I'll add them to our chat 
> pieces and resend the whole "dossier" as an attachment to the chat line.
> Ken
> - Original Message -
> From: Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Sat, 04 Nov 2017 10:13:29 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Compiled info on Winstrol
> 
> I will email you directly with a bunch of other articles I have compiled, 
> including the original scientific publication which appears to have started 
> the whole hysteria regarding liver failure in cats being caused by Winstrol. 
> I have highlighted and notated the study so you can see how very poorly 
> designed the study is, and the serious flaws with their logic and conclusions.
> 
> I don???t think I can post attachments to this chatline.
> 
> Amani 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> kresch...@mchsi.com
> Sent: November-03-17 10:56 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Compiled info on Winstrol
> 
> Dear Kitty Friends,
> I've attached a number of exchanges regarding the use of Winstrol to combat 
> FeLV. I;m taking my compilation to my vet and telling her (well firmly 
> asking) to read through the information and begin to do her own research. Our 
> vets need to do at least two pieces of research/investigation. First, they 
> need to research the efficacy of using steroids on cats and secondly, they 
> need to find legal supply routes to obtain Winstrol/Stargate. If I've missed 
> any significant parts of our exchanges, please tell me and resend those 
> parts. I'll add them to what we have and it will all be in one place. Thanks 
> to all  of you for weighing in on this critical subject
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> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Redundant posts, an experiment

[Lorrie]

Bob, I also use reply but then I delete the redundant posts, and they
never come back. I don't understand why they are coming back in your
posts. Perhaps this is because I use a very powerful, text operating
system - LINUX, not Microsoft.

Lorrie

On 11-02, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> After imploring all of you to delete redundant posts before posting your 
> notes to the group, I noticed that my last two posts ( where I DID this) 
> STILL had all the redundant posts included in the post.  
> 
> I tend to use REPLY all when responding...and, in turn, seeing my post 
> twice.  This time I am deleting ALL other posts and simply hitting 
> reply...   If it posts to the group with all the other redundant posts 
> I'll have to ask the advice of the list owner to see if there is an 
> answer perhaps it does not bother others as much as it bothers me to 
> have to sift through 20 other messages for the new ones so, after 
> this I'll desist  : )
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] erasing redundant posts...

[Lorrie]

THANK YOU BOB. I have repeatedly asked people in all my cat groups to
delete old messages and change the subject on the subject line when
the topic changes. I think you and I are the only ones doing this!


BTW, I run Linux, not Microsoft, and it is easy for me to do this, I
wonder if it is difficult with Microsoft, which most people use, or
are people just too busy, don't bother, or what?

Lorrie


On 11-02, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> PLEASE folks...
> A lot of us could be missing important information while leafing through 
> 20 previously posted messages and not noticing the ONE that is 
> new... It is frustrating sometimes that I will go to the trouble of 
> deleting everything and then see it reappear anyway I don't get 
> it... BUT... still worth the effort for the time that it DOES work...
> I'll check and HOPE that this on doesn't include everything that went 
> before   : )
> 
> 
> Bob in Warwick ny

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Re: [Felvtalk] Immunoregolin or Lymphocyte T-cell immunomodulator -

[Lorrie]

Marlene, Please try the Winstrol. It works amazingly well for FelV
cats with anemia. I have not heard the same about Immunoregolin or
any other drugs used for FelV. Some of us in the Felv group have
found Winstrol online.

Lorrie and 42 rescued cats  - 12 cats at home, and 30 in my private
cageless sanctuary.

Lorrie

On 10-28, marlene melpignano wrote:

> Thanks Kat and Amani for support and suggestions. Unfortunately I
> currently live in Brussels where they have ZERO experience on felv
> cats. As medicaments, in Europe we only have interferon, that I
> cannot use at the same time of prednisone, but without it the
> anemia prevails... in Belgium they proposed me cyclosporine, which
> is not used at all in Italy. My Italian vet read about LTCI and
> thinks we should give it a try, but it's very complicated to get it
> in Europe, and a German veterinary specialised in virology told me
> there are no scientific proofs that immunomodulator are effective
> in Felv. And I cannot find anything recent about them in academics
> articles..
> 
> Sorry for bothering, but Europe is hundreds years behind you ... 
> 
> 
> Inviato da iPhone
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Re: [Felvtalk] Lucky

[Lorrie]

On 08-02, Sandy wrote:
> Karma - somewhere - sometime - the unhuman will be "rewarded" 
 
Ah yes, Karma in either this life or the next since Reincarnation
makes sense to me.

Lorrie


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[Felvtalk] A suggestion that could make it easier to keep up with posts...

[Lorrie]

I'm in 6 cat groups and all the moderators ask us to delete messages
that are no longer being discussed. They also ask us to change the
subject line when a new topic is being discussed. Regardless, no one
does this. I always delete unnecessary stuff, but almost everyone
else sends LONG posts containing all the past stuff. I do not know
why people do this. I hope the post from Robert will help everyone to
remember to delete when necessary.

Lorrie





On 07-26, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
> good idea!  will do this from now on.  Dorlis
> 
>  ROBERT CHAPEL <bcha...@optonline.net> wrote: 
>  When we reply ( apparently it doesn't make much difference if we hit 
> reply or reply all) it would be helpful to erase those parts of the 
> posting that reference earlier discussions and do not have relevance to 
> the current posting  This also prevents having your message held up 
> because it exceeds the allowable line limits..
> 
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Pain Meds for Gilbert....

[Lorrie]

On 06-12, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> 
> 
> Thank you for all the responses re: pain meds  I was hoping there 
> was something out there that I hadn't heard about ( actually there are 
> many but I was hoping for first hand experience)... The shelter is 
> mulling over providing Buprenorphine... but.. in the meantime I got them 
> to reinstate his prednisolone ( which is seemingly already 
> helpingHOPE it continues to do so)...  Wondering if anyone had used 
> larger doses than 5mg BID..

Do you mean .5ml which is half of a 1ml syringe?

My IBD cat gets .5 of prednisolone once a day and is doing very well
on it.  It does affect a cats immune system which is why it works
well with inflamatory problems like IBD (Inflamatory Bowel Disease),
but I never heard of using steroids for FelV positive cats, since
their immune systems are already compromised.  I will be very
interested in hearing about this.  Perhaps I missed some of your
posts.

Lorrie




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Re: [Felvtalk] People who don't care about animals...

[Lorrie]

 
> When people don't care about animals, you can make them give a crap
> by explaining to them that psychopathic killers start out killing
> animals. If you can't get them to give a damn about abused animals,
> they sure perk up when they realize that after practicing on
> animals, these killers move on to children and other people.
> 
> Amani

Excellent idea and one I will remember and use.

Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] Amani

[Lorrie]

Thank you Amani. This was such a wonderful story.

Lorrie

On 05-26, Amani Oakley wrote:

 
> I took home a little girl last year, who also had a diagnosis of
> cancer. The shelter where she had been staying, was closing down
> and she was obviously not adoptable. Someone at the shelter had
> heard of my reputation for being a sap for hard luck cases, so I
> was contacted out of the blue and asked if I would take her and let
> her live out her days sleeping on a comforter instead of in a
> shelter. I agreed. After watching her for a while, and obtaining
> her previous medical records and reviewing them, I was skeptical
> that she had cancer. She wasn???t deteriorating, but she had a
> whole lot of serious pain from something. Happily, after much
> running around and thousands of dollars, we had her in for surgery
> in March and a piece of tissue was removed (a remnant it appears,
> from an infected uterus which was removed) and I was so gratified
> to see the immediate change in her personality. She immediately
> brightened up - even played a bit - and started hanging around us
> instead of being in a poor mood and sleeping alone upstairs all the
> time. She still has pain but it has markedly reduced.
> 
> Every once in a while - something disastrous turns good. I am
> crossing my fingers for your new charge.
> 
> Amani
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Canna-pet (CBD)

[Lorrie]

I'd love to know how this works.  BTW it is not addictive as they'd
have you believe. All my kids used it in high school and college and
turned out just fine. They never tried hard drugs. I personally think
it should be legal.

Lorrie

On 03-17, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
> The only thing holding me back is my concern about it becoming addictive.
> 
>  Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: 
> > That???s really interesting. I have been blown away with the scientific 
> > evidence, already available, about the effectiveness of cannabis in human 
> > health.
> > 
> > Amani
> > 
> > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Katherine K.
> > Sent: March-16-17 9:31 PM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: [Felvtalk] Canna-pet (CBD)
> > 
> > Anyone have experience using Canna-pet, or cannabinoids for FeLV cats? I 
> > just found out about it. Since I can't afford radiation for K's nose tumor, 
> > this looked interesting.
> > 
> > From their website:
> > What do customers use Canna-Pet for?
> > 
> >   *   Anxiety<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/anxiety-phobias/>
> >   *   Arthritis<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/pain-inflammation/>
> >   *   Allergies<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/skin-coat/>
> >   *   Cancer<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/cancer-seizures/>
> >   *   Digestive 
> > Issues<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/digestive-nausea/>
> >   *   Seizures<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/cancer-seizures/>
> >   *   Inflammation<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/pain-inflammation/>
> >   *   Joint & Mobility 
> > Issues<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/joints-mobility/>
> >   *   Pain<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/pain-inflammation/>
> >   *   Homeostasis<https://canna-pet.com/ailment_group/aging-wellness/>
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Food, Bad Jokes, Good Vets

[Lorrie]

Hi Robert,

No problem about the joke. I was also joking when I said your remark
almost gave me a heart attack.

Re: FOOD -  None of my 13 rescued cats like the grain free foods
either. They also don't like Friskies canned, but I worry about too
much dry food. It easier to feed, but they need more moisture so they
get Fancy Feast once a day (expensive with 13 cats) but thats all
they want. The rest of the time they get dry food, but I cannot free 
feed as I have 4 who are overweight. So they all get fed individually
and I've discovered many of them like a bit of water on their dry
food, which is good because this way I'm sure they are getting enough
liquids.

As for myself I eat as healthy as I can. Junk food actually  turns my
stomach now as does fried food. I've been eating this way for about
30 years now, and I really love veggies, whole grains, and very little
meat. What meat I eat is always braised or baked.  It must be working
as my blood work is perfect at age 84, but I still got arthritis and
it's VERY painful.  I figure I'll live to be 100 and be in pain the 
entire time :-(   Well I have to outlive all these cats so I'll deal 
with it.

Lorrie



On 03-11, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> 
> First... my apologies to those who did not get IMMEDIATELY that I was 
> joking about using a knife to remove Jelly's fluid  I thought it 
> would be a foregone conclusion anyone  one who takes the time to BE in 
> this forum would ever do such a thing be it from cruelty or monumental 
> stupidity   Such are the drawbacks of email communication...minus 
> facial cues and voice tone...  there are only words on a page.
> 
> Re  FOOD:  This is argued perpetually even among vets and animal 
> nutritionists... There is the " raw only" camp the don't EVER let 
> your cat touch grain camp... The ONLY wet food camp... the Use Multiple 
> sources of protein camp( don't stay with the same food camp vs...stay 
> with the same food camp)ad nauseum.. I am personally an 
> excellent human example of how genetics influences health... I am a 
> walking heart attack ( apart from my tendency to like exercise and keep 
> somewhat active).. On a limited budget now...and ,even when I had money, 
> so seldom home.. I have been eating " wrong" my entire life.. Meanwhile 
> a recent Cardiac Vessel Calcium test found my vessels 100% clear ( MD 
> says I'm good for 10 more years minimum)... 3 friends that have eaten 
> "right" for decades have recently been Dx'd with heart issues... 
> Unfair...yes... but fact.    *** The only thing I can somewhat control 
> that concerns me a lot is making sure that my cats get enough fluid so I 
> try to be sure that they ( he) get some wet food daily in addition to 
> the water he drinks Don't know that it's a deal breaker but it makes 
> ME feel better.

Post trimmed as requested by moderator

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Re: [Felvtalk] Fluid in Airway

[Lorrie]

Hey Robert, you almost gave this poor old lady a heart attack :-)

Lorrie

On 03-08, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> Funny you should mention that Jen because I DID have several recordings 
> last season when the problem was substantially worse... Of course I 
> couldn't locate them when I brought him to the vet...but that is the 
> best answer to my dilemna...  The Sound is definitely pronounced enough 
> to record well... The other day I stuck a large knife in his side to see 
> if the fluid would come out but all I got was blood.my bad... really 
> did little to help the problem
> ( I AM JUST KIDDING FOLKS!..HONEST !  : ) Looks like I have 
> some homework to do again on Airway issues in Kitties...
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 01:00 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
> wrote:
> 
> >Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
> > felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >  
> >http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org
> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. My Charlie (Tina Terrell)
> >   2. Re: Fluid in Lungs or Airway... (Jennifer Olson)
> >   3. Re: My Charlie (Amani Oakley)
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 20:42:26 -0600
> >From: Tina Terrell To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >Subject: [Felvtalk] My Charlie
> >Message-ID:
> > 
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Hello,
> > What antibiotics seem to help FELV cats the most?Also, my Charlie 
> >seems to
> >respond well to Predisolone. Longterm ?
> >Thank you in advance
> >Blessings
> >Tina
> >-- next part --
> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >URL:
> >--
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 21:57:21 -0600
> >From: Jennifer Olson To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fluid in Lungs or Airway...
> >Message-ID:
> > 
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Bob,
> >Have you tried to record the sounds of his breathing to replay for a 
> >vet?
> >Suppose you told them about past episodes & effects of thorough 
> >cleaning?
> >Jen
> >
> >On Mar 6, 2017 8:33 PM, "ROBERT CHAPEL"  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Hello All:
> >>
> >>My remaining boy ( Magellin aka  " Jelly " ) has some kind of fluid 
> >>either
> >>in his lungs or in his trachea... The oddest thing is that despite my
> >>hearing it ALL the time ( and even frequently cupping him to get him 
> >>to
> >>cough and clear it a bit) 2 Vets have failed to hear it ( and... in 
> >>fact...
> >>it seems to disappear when I've taken him somewhere to "show" them 
> >>what I'm
> >>talking about)... possibly adrenaline from being anxious about being 
> >>in the
> >>car and a new environment dries it up temporarily.. just like we get 
> >>dry
> >>mouths when we are scared??  It concerns me even though it's not 
> >>currently
> >>causing him a lot of distress it's just very disconcerting when I 
> >>hear
> >>him gurgling as he eats his dinner or as he sleeps because I simply 
> >>don't
> >>know what it is and if there is something I should be addressing 
> >>before it
> >>gets worse...   When I first got him he appeared to have an asthma 
> >>like
> >>condition with multiple attacks of a kind of " hacking"  each day
> >>Interestingly that was last March as well ( when I first got him 
> >>almost
> >>to the day today. along his little but older "brother" who lasted 
> >>just
> >>under a year with me despite many many trips to vets and multiple 
> >>meds
> >>nearly the entire time I had him  I call him little because he 
> >>failed
> >>to thrive from the  get go...a poster cat for bad FeLV)   I still 
> >>feel his
> >>loss 

Re: [Felvtalk] confirm 9c17a7de9b1bc412f6f94e8a84e39c1d5b5894fa

[Lorrie]

I know how you feel.  This is extremely annoying and I was about to
bow out of the group too, but I got a very nice letter from James,
the moderator of the list, and he said this was all automated and it
wasn't him who kept threatening to drop our membership. None of my
other 6 cat groups send these automated threats. I hope James will 
disable this automated system, not us!

Lorrie

On 02-17, Margo wrote:
> 
> This is getting annoying. I usually just delete things that come
> thru looking like this. Next time I will probably just let it lapse
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Being Dropped..

[Lorrie]

Hi Bob,

I just got a nice e-mail from the moderator, James, explaining that
it is not him personally who is doing this.  He said those messages
were automated, but I am a member of 6 other cat groups and this
never happens on them.  I've been on them for years with no problems
like this.

Yes, I remember "the good old days" when it was text only, and I
still write in ascii text, as to me it is much better and does not
use as much memory.
   
Lorrie 
 

On 02-03, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> Listserve Technology is rather hard to decipher without a Help file... 
> and I never noticed one for this group when I joined ( has anyone ever 
> received such)... eg.. differences between Reply and Reply all ( I note 
> that if I use reply it STILL goes to everyone but if  REPLY all.. I see 
> the message listed twice... 
> I also frequently see " HTML attachment " scrubbed" instead of a 
> response from someone ( his happened with Kat's reply  no 
> text...just HTML attachment scrubbed.    When I first started to use the 
> Internet _ many_ years ago when it was purely text based.. Listserves 
> were the only form of group communication and people who joined got a , 
> ridiculously long,hard to understand, but ultimately helpful file that 
> told you how to negotiate the list  Perhaps we have such a thing for 
> this group??  Anyone notice??    I doubt the list maintainer has any 
> personal interest in dropping anyone...more likely it is an auto 
> response.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 

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[Felvtalk] Being dropped

[Lorrie]

I am continually (every few weeks) being treatened with having my
membership disabled/dropped, whatever. However I never received any
of these any of these "bounces" from my ISP that I am accused of!


Due to having been in a serious automobile accident..My car hit a
patch of black ice and went over a hill and hit two trees, I was not
able to respond to the recent threat from this FelV group.  I do not
think it is fair to dump me beause I was not able to respond within 3
days!  I enjoy this group and consider myself a valuable member.


James,  Please reconsider If not then goodbye to everyone here.  

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Finding money for Vet Tx...

[Lorrie]

This sounds like a wonderful idea, Robert.  We live in a community of
rather affluent people who treasure their pets.  I'm sure your
services would be needed here.

Where do you live?

Lorrie


On 01-20, Amani Oakley wrote:
> Robert
> 
> Can I make a suggestion which is something I would dearly love to
> do myself. Why not house sit for others going on holidays, who have
> animals? You could only accept jobs in the near vicinity, so you
> could pop back home and check on your babies as needed. You could
> also charge different amounts for just dropping in to check on an
> animal, getting the mail, taking in the newspaper, and watering the
> plants, versus staying at the house. I know that when I go away,
> the first and most important thing I have to arrange is care for my
> animals. We are lucky to have a cousin who is perpetually out of
> work (though quite young) so he is always available and good with
> our animals, and we pay him well.
> 
> Nowadays, with the internet as well, it is easier than ever to
> market your services. No more do you have to pin an ad on a
> supermarket community board, but you can do that too, along with a
> distribution of flyers in neighbourhoods near you.
> 
> There is good money in doing this, and what happens is that when
> one person uses your services, he/she tells family and friends
> about you when they're going away. You also can accept and reject
> jobs - you aren???t stuck with a particular commitment - so there's
> far more flexibility.
> 
> You're obviously wonderful with animals, so you would be perfect
> for something like this. (It is my dream job - I could live
> vicariously through you.)
> 
> Amani

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[Felvtalk] FelV kitten

[Lorrie]

Robert,  I am so sorry you are going thru this. I have lost many
kittens who were born with the virus, which they got from their
mother who was feral. All these precious kittens died at less than a
year.  At first they were so playful and looked so healthy I thought
the two tests I'd had were surely wrong, but at 8 months I started to
lose them one by one.  The 4th and last (my favorite) made it to 11
months.  I was devastated.

On the other hand I have had several older cats at my sanctuary who must 
have contracted the virus when older.  One died suddenly at 7 years
old and the other is now 8 years old, and she has never been sick. 
You never know what will happen.  

If you had started your little guy on Winstrol a few weeks ago it
might have saved his life, but it is probably too late now. 

I just wanted to tell you I am so sorry, and I know what you are
going thru.

Lorrie with 13 rescued cats at home and 32 in my sanctuary.


On 12-24, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> Amani et al
> 
> Any idea of the life expectancy of untreated non regenerative anemia in 
> a FeLV catGot a call on Yogi's  Most Recent Bloodwork and the vet 
> states HCT of 14 and non regenerative anemia  I was taken aback and 
> didn't ask nearly enough questions but it was VERY clear that she felt 
> it was time to put the little guy down.   I am at the end of my 
> money at this point and cannot take him to a bunch of other vets hoping 
> one will be willing to prescribe the cocktail that is showing itself to 
> be effective with others cats...( I don't think I am going to get a lot 
> of cooperation from the Vet I was using after I gave her my opinion of 
> her unwillingness to help me through unconventional means).Nor can I 
> afford Bone Marrow Biopsies and more definitive narrowing of the 
> parameters of his drop in blood values ( it's Xmas eve and they are all 
> gone from the office)   As much as I would like to save this little 
> guy... He has so many other things wrong with him that I don't know that 
> I am doing him any favors. Temp is 104...weight has dropped a full 
> pound in the last 6 months If it weren't for the fact that he is 
> still eating heartily I'd put him down Without further treatment is 
> it kinder to put him down or allow nature to take it's course??.The 
> idea of him suffering from an inability to get enough O2 is 
> unacceptable
> any suggestions are welcome but... please...  no admonitions re: 
> what I _ should_ do.    I have learned an immense amount from this 
> experience and will NOT repeat it...  My other boy is still doing OK and 
> I WILL find someone eventually that is willing to work with me..
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] No Mail

[Lorrie]

I've not had any mail from the group in about a month.
I hope this means you and your kitties are all doing well.
However I wonder if I've been dumped by the automatic system 
that claims I have bounced mail, which I do NOT.

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bloody Stool

[Lorrie]

Robert, I am treating my cat, Sooty, the way you are.  I give him
Probiotics, and Acidophiles/Pectin (Swanson capsules) 1/2 capsule
each day. It has no flavor and Pectin is a well known, old fashioned
remedy for diarrhea. I also give him a pinch of ground psyllium seed
which I also get from Swanson online.  He loves yogurt, too so he
gets a dab of that at times. IBD is an awful disease to treat and all
we can do is keep them going as long as we can.  Sooty is 14 now and
still enjoying life, but if the IBD turns into Lymphoma, which it
can, I will have to have him PTS. Meanwhile I love and spoil him as
much as I can.  I try not to think about the possibility of Lymphoma.
BTW, did your vet suggest B-12 injections? I give these to Sooty at 
home, once a week.  Tiny needle - sub Q

Lorrie




On 08-15, Sandy wrote:
>Robert more natural - like pumpkin or yogurt - is wise. I know
>antibiotics play havoc with the intestinal system - good luck -  I know
>you will keep everyone updated.
>  __
> 
>From: "ROBERT CHAPEL" <bcha...@optonline.net>
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 4:00:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bloody Stool
>Sandy...
>Thank you  I am only now looking into " natural " methods to calm
>his bowel as there are really few medicines that I am aware of for this
>disorder that he can take that won't interfere with his already
>compromised immune system. the perpetual dilemma of medical care
>for
>immune compromised kitties...
>BTW his stood is not full of a lot of blood generally...  a little
>frank blood occasionally and other times red tinged mucus stool is
>generally semi formed and only once did he have frank diarrhea and that
>was following a semi formed stool. what I am hoping is that I can
>normalize his bowel and maybe it will return to normal The little
>guy has been on several courses of antibiotics nearly back to back and
>even the Flagyl ( which was intended to help him) might also have
>further disturbed his intestinal flora... Would really like to back him
>off systemic meds for a few weeks, if possible, give gut enhancing "
>probiotics" ( if any such really exist) and see if that helps..
>there is , of course, always the possibility of lymphoma as well
>Again.   I am not going to rush into all kinds of testing until(
>unless) the symptoms get worse...
>Have to treat my Kitties like I treat my teeth act when I HAVE
>to...except when preventive services will ultimately save me money in
>the long term...

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Re: [Felvtalk] Blood in Stool

[Lorrie]

Bob, I assume you've checked Yogi for parasites.  The fact that he
is losing weight and having soft bloody mucus could indicate IBD
Inflammatory Bowel Disease, I have a cat with this.  My cat, Sooty,
was on Metronidazole for two weeks, and now has to take prednisolone
every other day (transdermally) to keep this under control. He also
gets B-12 shots once a week.  I hope Yogi does not have this, as it
is not curable, only managable.  Sooty still enjoys life, but cannot
gain weight no matter how much he eats.

Lorrie 


 assume you've
had him checked for paras

On 08-12, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
>My 1 yr old ( Yogi) whose life has been one problem after another is
>now showing bloody mucus in his stool which is now becoming soft as
>well Had him to the Vet and he just completed a 10 day round of
>Flagyl...
>I'm already spending a fair amount with the Prednisolone Acetate he
>needs to keep his Uveitis at bay and 300 bucks later ( with an Xray) it
>does not look at though he has any blockages...  Anyone have any
>experience with this ??   Any relatively benign possible reasons (
>really hoping it is not severe autoimmune bowel disorder)   This
>poor little guy has a lot going on for a young cat also losing
>weight BUT...acting energetic, appetite is good and he's even
>playing a bit despite being half blind..
>thanks,
>Bob in Warwick NY

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Re: [Felvtalk] Our cats

[Lorrie]

On 06-14, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> Has anyone else had a day when you swore you were going to kill one
> of them?  

There are days when I tell my cats if they don't behave they are all
going to the China Wok... our local Chinese restaurant!  Of course I
am only kidding, but with 13 at home some days are pretty rough. I
love them all, but I'm old and tired, and having so many rescued cats
is very difficult at my age!

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] What happens to our cats when we are gone

[Lorrie]

I remember that conversation about what would become of our cats when
we check out. At 83 I'm in good health, but time is against me.  I
have 13 cats at home and three kids and three grown grandkids, but
they all have a bunch of animals of their own.  The wonderful lady
who lives in my cat sanctuary said she'd take them, but there are 25
cats there and it would be a real burden for her, and some of my cats
would freak out with that many new cats, even tho there is a lot of 
space for them there.

I searched for other sanctuaries, but they are really expensive for
as many cats as we have.  Rustic Hollow was mentioned and sounds
good, but it's in Iowa or someplace far from us in WV.

Lorrie


>  I am actually thinking that next time around I will adopt a more
>  senior cat. My age is getting to be more "senior" in nature,
>  and I worry that if my pets outlive me, what will happen to them?
>  Both of my kids say they would take them, but my daughter is more
>  of a dog person, and her hubby is very allergic to cats. And my
>  son loves cats, but is gone all the time traveling. I just
>  don't think either would be an ideal situation.
>  
>  Ardy

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Re: [Felvtalk] Tucker

[Lorrie]

Rachel,

You will never forget Tucker, and a new cat will not replace Tucker,
but it will soon make it's own place in your heart.
-

I cannot imagine not having a cat to love, when I lose one. There are
so many wonderful, loving cats who desperately need a home, and if I
may offer a bit of advise from an old lady If you want to be
sure of a very affectionate, loving cat I'd suggest you pick a cat,
not a kitten.  Kittens are adorable, but their personalities are not
yet formed, and you could be disappointed when the kitten grows up. 
With an older cat who reaches out to you with paws extended, purring
and ready for love, you'll get the kind of cat you need and want -
Go for it!


Lorrie




On 06-09, Rachel Dagner wrote:
>I picked up Tucker's ashes yesterday. I was really worried as I didn't
>know if it would make me feel better or worse. I haven't eaten since
>Sunday my appetite is nonexistent, I have managed to choke down a
>couple protein shakes. My eyes are so swollen, I feel bad for anyone
>who has the misfortune of looking at me, or being around me for that
>matter. Well, I of course cried all of the way to the vets, and all the
>way home. But then I curled up in bed with my little box of Tucker, and
>I actually did feel a little more at peace. I laid there with him and
>went through my pictures again and talked to him about all of my
>feelings and my love for him, about our memories and how much I miss
>him.
> 
> 
>I have actually been in touch with a rescue group I found on pet
>finder, they test every cat for FELV/FIV while many others don't. I
>know that there is no sure thing with testing, and I wouldn't trade my
>time with Tucker for anything in the world. I just know that
>emotionally and financially I am not ready for FELV again right now. If
>it happens, just like with any illness, then I deal with it, because
>that is what you do.  I am going to Petsmart over in Tampa on Sunday to
>meet their kitties, I have no idea if I will be ready, or if this is
>what I desperately need to do to help me heal, but it won't hurt to go
>meet them and see how my heart feels. One of the greatest gifts Tucker
>gave me is that "no cats" Harry, when I showed him a pictures of a
>kitty on Pet finder he said  "Is that the one you want to get?" So I
>know now that I will never again have to live without the feel of that
>soft fur on my face or the heart melting sound of purring in my ear. It
>is so hard because I am scared to get one, and I am scared not to. I
>guess we will see what happens...
> 
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

[Lorrie]

>Has anyone's vet ever advised them against vaccines for a FELV
>cat, or minimal vaccines, or spacing them out, being they have a
>compromised immune system?
-
 
My vet will not give vaccinations to any FelV cats, nor to any of my
old cats.  She also does not tell me to euthanize a FelV cat. Some 
positive cats can live long lives in spite of having the virus.
-

It is encouraging to know that FelV is NOT a death sentence with
every cat. Usually if is fatal with kittens however, as their immune
systems are not fully developed.  


Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] SC woman

[Lorrie]

Robert, I am glad this SC woman has received monetary help, but I too
worry about the future care she and her cats will need.  I think
there is a lot more to worry about and the money she has received
now is not going to be much help for her future needs.

Lorrie
-

On 06-04, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
>All:
> 
>Certainly understand why you would want to keep her cats down there...
> 
>My concern is that if this woman does not get the care SHE needs there
>will BE no
> 
>Caretaker for these animals  AND...who is going to take care of her
>animals
> 
>if/when she does get the lung transplants.  Various list members
>have repeatedly
> 
>said that there ARE no services she can turn to in the South  Is
>her son going to be able
> 
>to look after the cats...
> 
>You all are very kind.   Guess too many years as a Social Worker
>has made me a bit more wary.
> 
>Many questions after reading her GoFundme profile...


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Re: [Felvtalk] FIV groups

[Lorrie]

It is the vaccination for FIV, not FelV, that causes a cat to test
positive for FIV, and you are certainly right about the tests for
FelV being a crapshoot.

Lorrie


On 05-31, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>That stress thing I believe is a big factor. Tigger, who apparently had
>FeLV since he was a kitten, was living a healthy life as an indoor-only
>cat, and the only other cat I had indoors with him was an old-lady cat
>named Peekers. They got along great, slept together, ate together, etc.
>I was unaware that Tigger had FeLV since I had him tested when I found
>him. Then in November of 2014 I brought in a stray female who was well
>behaved at first, but then became jealous of the attention I gave
>Tigger and she would run up behind him and bite him hard. Tigger was
>stressed out about it and was always looking over his shoulder,
>wondering when she would bite him next. I believe that is what caused
>his last FeLV crisis which began in September of 2015.
> 
> 
>I have since adopted a one year old female named Topaz, and she came
>from a shelter through a pet store. They told me she is spayed, wormed
>and has had all her shots. I asked about testing/vaccinating for FeLV,
>and they said "FeLV is a crapshoot". They said the testing is not
>reliable and the vaccination is often not effective. My vet told me
>this before that. But the manager of the pet store also said once you
>vaccinate a cat for FeLV, they will always test positivedoes anyone
>know if this is true or not?
> 
> 
>Thank you!!
> 
>Ardy

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Re: [Felvtalk] Eagle foster cat

[Lorrie]

I still cry over special cats I lost 20 or even 30 years ago. The
pain never goes away, but in time it lessens enough to be bearable.

Lorrie


On 05-28, Amani Oakley wrote:

> Roxanne, the pain is unbearable, I know, but it is so much better
> than he was with you and he felt your love before he went back to
> being the angel you always knew him to be. Once, a long time ago,
> one of my cats died alone when I wasn't home. That is an ache in my
> soul that has never gone away. I am crying again now when I think
> about it, even though it happened more than 20 years ago.
> 
> Amani
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Availability of Winstrol

[Lorrie]

Thank you very much Ardy.  Now to get my vet to comply.

Lorrie
-

On 05-19, Ardy Robertson wrote:
> Hi Lorrie,
> 
> I found Winstrol (Stanozolol) at a compounding pharmacy called Diamond Back
> Drugs in Arizona. They offered it in other forms besides liquid, I can't
> remember all of them so they might have it in pill form. I bought it in
> liquid because that was easier for me to give to Tigger and he liked the
> salmon flavor. I would let him smell the syringe before I gave it and he did
> not try to avoid it. The company's website is
> http://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/   and their phone number is  866-578-4420.
> 
> I found them to be very good to work with, very efficient and also caring.
> The company seems large, but they take time to talk with you individually
> also. The vet had to fill out the prescription online, or fax it to them.
> Then they would call me to verify the address, and for me to give them
> payment by credit card. I paid $42 for a 25 day supply.
> 
> Hope this helps. If they do not have pill form, you might be able to find
> other sources by googling "compounding pharmacy veterinarian".
> Ardy
> 
> 

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[Felvtalk] Rescuing cats

[Lorrie]

On 05-19, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> You keep on going because you have a heart, love and compassion.  I
> have said several times, no more and then someone shows up on the
> deck looking bedraggles, thin and those eyes and off I go again.  I
> cannot say no to them.  I would take in children also if I had the
> money and the law would allow an old woman to take them in.
-

I've said "no more cats" many times, but I cannot say NO to abandoned,
needy cats either, and there never seems to be an end them.

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Cats with FelV

[Lorrie]

Hi Ardy,

I don't think FelV is on the rise, I just think vets and pet owners
are becoming more savy about this virus. I've gotcha beat on age,
as I'm 83, and I've had cats my entire life.  Back in the 1930's and
40's cats never saw the inside of a vet's office, nor was pet food
available.  Our cat got people scraps and whatever she caught
outside.  The  first cat food I recall  was stinky, fishy stuff 
called  "Puss In Boots Cat Food".  But I digress, I meant to say,
vets just didn't have the training and knowledge they have now and
many cats died without anyone knowing why. Now we test for FelV and
yet the tests are still inconclusive.
-

Lorrie 

On 05-19, Ardy Robertson wrote:
> Wow - I am blown away by all of this..so really no test is reliable. My
> vet told me you test once and it may be unreliable so you test again 30 days
> later to be sure! Apparently you cannot ever be "sure". My vet also told me
> the vaccination for FeLV and FIP can be ineffective. So, basically any cat
> can have FeLV at any stage of their life, and testing is never a sure
> thing???
> 
> I am 65 and have never at any point in my life not had at least one cat, and
> usually two or three. With the exception of a few cats who had accidents
> when they were outside, all of my cats have always lived to be 19, 20, 21 -
> right in there. FeLV was never an issue that I knew of -  do you all feel
> that FeLV is on the rise?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ardy
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] clever medicating tip

[Lorrie]

Wow,I LOVE this suggestion. Some of my 13 cats at home are good
about taking meds, and others turn into tigers.  This is the solution
to my problems!


Thank you SO MUCH..Lorrie
-


On 05-20, Marsha wrote:
> Very clever!  The never-ending ingenuity of determined pet parents such 
> as yourself is amazing!
> 
> Marsha
> 
> On 5/20/2016 5:28 AM, Margo wrote:
> >My "Go To" to get meds in a cat involve a high back upholstered chair, or 
> >a screen door. The goal is to "hang" the cat by his/her front feet. Hold 
> >the cat up to the door at shoulder hieght so that they attach their front 
> >claws. Move to the right side of the cat (if you're right-handed). Let 
> >them sink until the legs are extended and the cat's head is at a good 
> >level for you (don't let the get their back legs under them). Let go of 
> >the cat, use your left hand to  tilt the head back and open the mouth, and 
> >the right to hold down the lower jaw and either administer the liquid 
> >across the tongue, or get the pill way down the throat.
> >
> >It sounds more complicated than it is. Try it when you're NOT trying to 
> >medicate, and you may find it could  be helpful. I have had cats that the 
> >harder you try, the harder they fight, and the tighter they clench their 
> >teeth. This is basically non-restraint, and it's confusing enough to catch 
> >them off guard. It also keeps those claws occupied...
> >
> >HTH
> >
> >Margo
> 
> 
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[Felvtalk] Winstrol

[Lorrie]

Amani, I just found the answer to my question in a former post you
sent. I am happy to know Winstrol does not compromise the
immune system, and now I intend to find some, somewhere, somehow!





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Re: [Felvtalk] Winstrol

[Lorrie]

Does anyone know (Amani probably will) if an anabolic steroid also
compromises the cat's immune system as steroid like Prednisolone
does?

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Cats with FelV

[Lorrie]

Hi Ardy,  As you probably know we rescue and have 13 cats at home
plus 28 more in our cageless sanctuary. Therefore we've had many cats
who have tested positive for FelV.  Most were kittens and they were
isolated in our isolation rooms, and they seemed so playful and well
I couldn't believe they had the FelV virus, then one by one at about
8 months old they suddenly started to get very sick. The longest any
of these kittens lived was 1 1/2 years.  They died of either anemia,
cancer, or tumors, and had to be euthanized.  Kittens seem to have a
worse time with FelV than grown cats because the immune system of
kittens is not fully developed, and they usually die.  However, this
isn't always the case.  We have two grown cats who tested positive as
kittens and lived many years. One is about 9 now and seems fine, the
other one seemed fine and suddenly just died with no signs of illness
at all.  I do not know if these two cats converted back to negative
or not, as they are/were sanctuary cats  who were born of a feral
mother, and they were very skittish. Only one of them was tested
again and she was still positive when spayed at two years old. 
-

FelV is a very complicated virus and we continue learn as much as
possible about it. With FelV I understand three things can happen. A
positive cat can either convert to negative, or carry the virus all
it's life and show no symptoms, or die, usually in their first year.
-

I don't recall saying "most cats have converted after some time", as
sadly "most' don't.  I don't think anyone really knows why some cats
can live with the virus, others can convert, and some die. It's an
awful virus, and I'm sorry your Tigger was one of the cats who didn't
make it.

Lorrie
-

On 05-17, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>Hi Lorrie - if you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by "most cats
>you have taken in have converted after some time"? Does that mean they
>no longer have FeLV, and if so, what do you attribute that to?
> 
> 
>Thank you,
> 
>Ardy

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Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Sanctuary

[Lorrie]

HOW WONDERFUL..
Thanks to all of you who do rescue work. It can be heartbreaking at
times, but it is so rewarding to save cats who are injured, abused or
starving.   I wish we could help every cat in the world.

Lorrie

On 05-16, simon95 wrote:
>Hi Guys
> 
>I am a member of a no kill shelter.
> 
>We are in Malta.Europe.
> 
>All our heathly cat roam free .
> 
>Then we have an enclosure dor our felv cats and another for our fiv
>cats.
> 
>Then there is another for our blind cats. I have a felv cat at home and
>had Bella also but passed away last October.
> 
>These creatures are cats also . And deserve to live even though there
>life maybe cut short.
> 
>If anyone wants to have a look you can have a look on fb CSAf Malta
> 
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Amani thoughts for Winstrol

[Lorrie]

My vet never tried to talk me into euthanizing a FelV cat either.


On 05-16, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
> GOOD VET!
> 

>  Rachel Dagner  wrote: 

> > When I brought Tucker home from work he had an infection on his
> > leg and I took him to get treated, he had a chip so we found out
> > he didn't need shots for six months. When I took him for shots
> > she me if I wanted the felv vaccine because I used to let him go
> > outside too. We tested him first and it came back positive :(.
> > She told me he could live three months or a long normal life
> > there was just no telling. She never even said the word
> > euthanize.
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Sanctuary

[Lorrie]

> 
>Lorrie,
> 
>Do you have pictures?  I would love to see what you've done!
> 
>Kat (Mew Jersey)

Hi Kat, I was born in Morristown, "Mew" Jersey.


I only have photos of the outside of my sanctuary and the grassy lot
next door where I have a small, heated, building for ferals, and a
big shade tree. I don't think they let us send photos to the group,
but if you want to see it I can send it to you. However, outside you
just see a two story brick building not the inside.
-

It's really difficult to take photos of the inside because I can't
get back far enough in each room to really show what I've done.
-

My cat sanctuary is two stories and a basement.  Downstairs are 5
rooms, including two rooms with wire doors for introduction or
isolation. My live-in caretaker has her own bedroom, a large kitchen,
full bathroom and a half bath.  The cats have access to every room
and my caretaker lets them sleep with her. She spoils them rotten.
They (cats & caretaker) all have a couch, chairs, and kitty kondos.
There is a glass front door and window perches so they can look
outside.


The cats are NOT in cages, they have the run of the downstairs and
upstairs rooms.  The older cats are downstairs, and adoptable young
cats and kittens are upstairs which is also designed just for them.
Upstairs are 4 large kitty kondos, 2 people chairs, many cozy cat
beds, and a wall-walk with two tunnels that goes all around the
walls. There are 4 rooms upstairs, and a laundry room. 


Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Keeping strays - was Tiffany

[Lorrie]

On 05-14, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:


> ALL OF MY CATS WERE EITHER FERAL OR STRAYS.  tHEY SHOWED UP AND i KEPT THEM.

Same with me. I can't turn them away and this is how I ended up with
13 cats at home and 28 more in my shelter/sanctuary. 

Rescuing cats seems to be my calling in life and I always wanted to have a
sanctuary of my own, so in 2004 I bought a large two story brick building in
town and made it into a wonderful sanctuary for my overflow of rescued cats.
The cats are not in cages, they have many rooms in which to run. I have
completely transformed the building into a paradise for cats, with cat
posts, window perches, wall walks, tunnels and tall cat condos.  All
are neutered or spayed of course!

I'm sure many of you know this so I won't go into more details.

Lorrie



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Re: [Felvtalk] Tiffany

[Lorrie]

Post trimmed.

Thank you for writing to me, Amani.
I just wrote about my experience with blood donations, but I did want
to comment on the paragraph below.  Sadly many clients who go to vet
clinics do not really love or care about cats other than their own.
They will pay huge vet bills to keep their own cats or dogs alive and
yet they would not help a stray cat or dog. I have seen so much of
this during my long life and it really upsets me.

Lorrie

On 05-13, Amani Oakley wrote:
> Lorrie
> 
> Perhaps you have had a bad experience wherever you went, but it
> seems odd to me that a clinic would offer cat blood transfusions
> (which are pretty high end treatments) and not treat the cats well
> because owners who would and could spend that kind of money on
> their cats are obviously very very concerned about animal welfare
> and would expect and demand a certain level of ethical treatment of
> the donor cats.
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to transfuse a cat, if that was needed, but it
> is very expensive and out of the range of what most people can
> realistically afford. However, this is why I was so annoyed that no
> one told me about the Winstrol, because it probably could have
> saved me close to $10,000, not to mention the trauma of a
> transfusion on both donor and recipient!
> 
> Amani 
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Amani thoughts for Winstrol

[Lorrie]

Great idea Rachel.  I hope Amani can tell us where to get Winstrol,
as my vet is totally against it.
-

I got a chuckle out of your idea of becoming a Winstrol drug dealer,
and having Amani defend you!

Lorrie


On 05-14, Rachel Dagner wrote:
>Good Morning Amani,
> 
>I hope you are not working today, lawyers need QOL too!
> 
>I have been thinking about Winstrol and how hard it is for people to
>get their vets to get on board and how hard it is to find it. So I was
>thinking that maybe since you are the go to person for those of us
>looking to go this route, you could start a file of those who have
>tried it along with blood test results and notes or letters from vets,
>along with places we find that make Winstrol. You could then send the
>file to people to take with them to their vets. The more vets that try
>it and see results the more likely they are to try it again and share
>their experience with other vets.
> 
>My second option would be that I could become a Winstrol kitty drug
>dealer, and if I got caught you could defend me. Then we could write a
>book about it.
> 
>Option one sounds a little more promising though.
> 
>Rachel
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Tiffany

[Lorrie]

I have had many FelV cats.  Most have died of anemia or other issues,
before reaching a year old. Others have had a long life and showed no
symptoms even tho they tested positive several times. I treat my FelV
cats as long as possible, but I will not do invasive painful
treatments on a FelV cat if it is obviously suffering.
-

Blood transfusions are something I will not do. They are hard on a
cat and very expensive. I can afford the expense, but I will not put
my cat thru this. I also feel for the cat or cats in the vet clinic
who often die when drained of too much blood.
-

I hope the Epogen helps Tiffany, but if not, please don't let her
suffer.
-

Lorrie and many cats

On 05-12, Roxanne Smith wrote:
> 
>In the last two weeks my poor Tiffany has had three blood transfusions.
>Vets and nurses all feel she has a will to live. We just need to get
>over this hump. She will now be on epogen. Any feedback is welcome. She
>was diagnosed with feline leukemia a year ago. Has anyone had a feline
>tgat lived awhile with feline leukemia... Thanks

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[Felvtalk] Testing

[Lorrie]

I've not had any posts from this group in quite awhile.
Just testing to see if everything is alright. They keep threatening
to drop me, for "bounces" and I cannot understand why this is, so I
want to be sure I am still enrolled as a member.

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] help /advice - testing age of kittens

[Lorrie]

Hi Anna,  I rescue and have many cats. Testing them at 3 or 4 months
old is usually a good time to see if they are positive or negative. 
I have lost many positive kittens who were born with the virus which
they contracted from their mother. However some can throw off the
virus. If your kitten who is approximately 4 months old had a
positive mother he could still be positive, but he may have an strong
immune system and be fine. With younger kittens I always test twice
once at about 8 weeks and again at around 4 months to be sure of the
status.  Please let us know how this kitten is?  Hopefully he will
test negative.

Lorrie 

On 01-25, Anna Summers wrote:

> Hi , I live in spain in a very rural are  & last year I lost 2 cats
> who were felv + , they were not in contacted with my house cats but
> one of them ( 9yrs old ) is latent positive DNA with a low reading
> of the virus , I did a quantative pcr , he was negative in the
> elisa test and I was told that he is not contagious . my other 2
> cats are vacinated against fel. my question ???..

> As I see yourselves are up to date with all the latest things  -
> someone left a kitten on my wall just before christmas - he is now
> been in ??? quarantine??? for 5 weeks , he is about 4 months old , I
> need to test him but when is the right time to test kittens as I
> have read many article re: the anitbodies of the mother so a kitten
> can test false positive. I am keen to know , as he is on his own
> and hopefully he will be negative so I then can vaccinate him as I
> am also told that, are they any special test to do this , I dont
> want to do the basic snap test and I am happy to do the elisa and a
> pcr test. Hope you can help me , here in the area a live in which
> is very rural ,lots of ferral cat the vets just give up on felv + ,
> so I dont wont to ask my vet until I am up to date with all the
> information. thank you anna
>  
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Re: [Felvtalk] cat fountains

[Lorrie]

I have three fountains and the cats do drink lots more water this
way, however the fountains have to be maintainenced, often and it's
kind of a nuisance to clean them and change the filters etc.

.
Dry food really isn't good for cats and can cause cystitis or UTIs.
It's very convenient for us, but not the best thing to feed cats. I
don't leave food down (free feed) because I have one cat who has
urinary problems. I give my 14 cats canned food in 14 bowls every day
LOL, and I put water on their dry food when they get that. They don't
seem to mind, and they drink up the water then eat their portion of
dry food.  This way I am sure they get enough water. I have to watch
them tho, as three of them are pigs and they try to steal each others
food. I couldn't do this if I was still working, but I'm home all day
now and I can portion out the food according to the weight of each
cat.

Lorrie

On 01-11, Ardy Robertson wrote:
> That's what I heard - that moist food is like 70% water. I worry about his
> bladder/kidney because it is fish-based and that is all he will eat. (His
> dry food is chicken now)
> 
> I thought maybe some extra water would help with any bladder issues later
> on. He seems to smack his lips a bit now, like he is dry. He does like to
> catch water from the faucets if I leave a really small stream so I think he
> would enjoy a fountain maybe just for fun :)
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Tigger

[Lorrie]

Very true Ardy, I have FelV pos. cats who have lived to be 8 years
old and still seem fine.  

Good luck with Tigger.

Lorrie and 14 rescued cats at home

On 01-10, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>My vet told me the other day that it is possible that Tigger can live a
>complete life-span and be healthy. She said it is not the FeLV that
>usually kills FeLV+ cats, but rather secondary things so we need to be
>very vigilant. I asked if she thinks he needs frequent blood testing
>and she said no, not unless he is showing signs of being ill. Needless
>to say I watch him like a hawk!
> 
>Ardy
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[Lorrie]

On 11-27, Christine Dundas wrote:

> 
>     It was awful knowing that she suffered.
> 
>So you see, I feel guilty knowing we should have done it before she
>suffered.   There is no right way with this awful virus.
> 
>Christine
 

After years and years of rescue work and seeing cats and kittens
suffer from FelV I think it is kinder to put them to sleep when they
begin to show symptoms of sickness with this horrible virus.

Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] Winstrol

[Lorrie]

You are fortunate, my vet absolutely refuses prescribe it for me, and
acted like it was a bad drug to use.

On 11-20, Amani Oakley wrote:
> 
>I never asked my vet, but I know she is quite comfortable with me using
>Winstrol now for all kinds of conditions. I do know that at the outset,
>I was the only client of the clinic getting Winstrol. It was always a
>special order. But after a while, I started noticing that the Winstrol
>sitting on the counter was not for me but for other clients, so I must
>assume that she is prescribing it for other clients.
> 
> 
>Amani
> 
> 

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[Felvtalk] Here we go again!

[Lorrie]

I get this *&^% about every three weeks.  Really maddening.
Is anyone else getting them?

- Forwarded message from felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org -

From: felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
To: felineres...@frontier.com
Subject: confirm 7579823abf69cc7df247d10a1045a7f9bb329b17
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 09:45:17 -0600

Your membership in the mailing list Felvtalk has been disabled due to
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Re: [Felvtalk] Merlot

[Lorrie]

I'm so sad for you Maya, the hurt of losing Merlot must be terrible.
I'm now age 82 and I've been rescuing cats for 50 years. I've lost so
many to old age or Felv, and it's heart breaking. The only comfort we
have is knowing we loved those precious cats and made their lives,
however short they might be, as wonderful as we could. So many cats
never know love, the warmth of a home and food. I only wish I could
save them all.

Lorrie with 14 rescued cats at home and 32 in my shelter.



On 11-17, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> I have lost 14 due to FELV and old age.  Be it FELV or old age, it
> hurts the same, but you must know that you did all you could and
> Merlot knew that.
> 



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Re: [Felvtalk] Lymph nodes

[Lorrie]

You got that right! I can tell they hate it that I am so knowledable
about cats, as it shows them up. Experience is the greatest teacher.

Lorrie


On 11-14, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> Vets and doctors soon learn it is useless to argue with us. 
> Sometimes our experience is better than their training.
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] pilling

[Lorrie]

I dissolve the pill in chicken broth and then syringe it down.
This works for me. 

Lorrie

On 10-30, Marsha wrote:
> Easiest one I ever had was getting prednisolone to shrink his mast cell 
> tumor.  I would hold up the pill, hidden between my fingers and ask him 
> if he wanted a treat. I would get him all excited about the treat, and 
> then he would just snarf it up really fast before he realized that it 
> was a pill.  That was before Pill Pockets.  But he didn't fall for that 
> trick so quickly the next time around.  I could only do it once in a while.
> 
> Most difficult one had an unbelievable talent for faking a swallow or 
> somehow working the pill back up and out.  I would find the pill later 
> on the carpet or stuck to his long-haired bib.  Finally got a mortar and 
> pestle, ground his meds to powder, and mixed them into a treat ball with 
> some malt-flavored gel that he loved.  This won't work for nasty-tasting 
> meds or timed-release ones that can't be ground up.
> 
> Marsha
> 

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[Felvtalk] Upsetting notices

[Lorrie]

I keep getting these notices that they will drop me for bounces and
I have not had any bounces or my system would advise me of this.

Has anyone else had this happen?  It is most upsetting to me as 
this is my favorite cat group with such valuable help for FelV.

I don't know what they mean about my password (see below) this is NOT
my password. Can someone please help me with this problem. I have to
keep reinstating my membership.

Lorrie


- Forwarded message from felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org -

From: felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
To: felineres...@frontier.com
Subject: confirm 95546e96fdcd66e1edc4efb4617ff74218c51892
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 02:06:17 -0500

Your membership in the mailing list Felvtalk has been disabled due to
excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
29-Oct-2015.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
this before your membership in the list is deleted.

To re-enable your membership, you can simply respond to this message
(leaving the Subject: line intact), or visit the confirmation page at


http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/confirm/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/95546e96fdcd66e1edc4efb4617ff74218c51892


You can also visit your membership page at

 
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/options/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/felinerescue%40frontier.com


As a reminder, your membership password is  toxexizi

-
If you have any questions, you can contact the list owner at

felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.orgI HAVE DONE THIS SEVERAL TIMES

-
- End forwarded message -

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Re: [Felvtalk] Upsetting messages

[Lorrie]

This is the 3rd time this has happened to me.  I can't understand it.
I get individual e-mails not the digest.  What a relief to know I'm
not the only one getting these warnings.

Lorrie

On 10-29, Lance wrote:

> I'm not the list admin, but I'm curious to know if people getting
> the bounced messages warnings have chosen to receive individual
> messages or daily digests?
> 
> I can't be sure, but I'm doubtful that this could be related to a virus.
> 
> > On Oct 29, 2015, at 10:56 AM, swacht1...@comcast.net wrote:
> > 
> > I also got this same message - gosh I hope this isn't a virus!
> > 
> > -Original Message- From: Lorrie
> > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 10:48 AM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: [Felvtalk] Upsetting notices
> > 
> > I keep getting these notices that they will drop me for bounces and
> > I have not had any bounces or my system would advise me of this.
> > 
> > Has anyone else had this happen?  It is most upsetting to me as
> > this is my favorite cat group with such valuable help for FelV.
> > 
> > I don't know what they mean about my password (see below) this is NOT
> > my password. Can someone please help me with this problem. I have to
> > keep reinstating my membership.
> > 
> > Lorrie
> > 
> > 
> > - Forwarded message from felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org -
> > 
> > From: felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
> > To: felineres...@frontier.com
> > Subject: confirm 95546e96fdcd66e1edc4efb4617ff74218c51892
> > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 02:06:17 -0500
> > 
> > Your membership in the mailing list Felvtalk has been disabled due to
> > excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
> > 29-Oct-2015.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
> > you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
> > this before your membership in the list is deleted.
> > 
> > To re-enable your membership, you can simply respond to this message
> > (leaving the Subject: line intact), or visit the confirmation page at
> > 
> >   
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/confirm/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/95546e96fdcd66e1edc4efb4617ff74218c51892
> > 
> > 
> > You can also visit your membership page at
> > 
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/options/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/felinerescue%40frontier.com
> > 
> > 
> > As a reminder, your membership password is  toxexizi
> > 
> > -
> > If you have any questions, you can contact the list owner at
> > 
> > felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.orgI HAVE DONE THIS SEVERAL TIMES
> > 
> > -
> > - End forwarded message -
> > 
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org 
> > 
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> 
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Cats as "property"

[Lorrie]

On 10-24, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> It is a shame that cats and dogs, any animal is "just property". 
> That reduces them to almost 'nothing in the law's eyes.  As
> property, do they not have any value?  They deserve respect at the
> very least.  Any one tell me my cats are just property and not
> deserving of love, respect and proper care had better be prepared
> to run as fast as he can.  Someone once said he would use them for
> target practice.  I told him he would be lying on the ground next
> to them.
-
I rescue abandoned cats and kittens and last year I found a calico
kitten about 8 or 9 weeks old. She was walking down the street right
in the middle of town and this creep saw her at the same time and
wanted to feed her to his "pet python". Well you can be sure he
didn't get this poor baby. She is still with us, spayed, happy and
loved.
-
Lorrie
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Scotchy

[Lorrie]

On 10-25, Ardy Robertson wrote:

> Ya, after Scotchy died following his rabies vaccination, they
> insisted on testing him for rabies because he had dug his claws
> into my arm hanging onto me for dear life when I took him back to
> the vet. They said they had to be sure he didn't have rabies in
> which case I would have been exposed. I had to pay $100 for them to
> send his head to Madison to be tested for rabies. They were really
> encouraging me to pay $700 to send his whole body down there.
> Hello!! I already had a dead cat - if they wanted to send his whole
> body they could do it without my $700. (I paid the $100 and tried
> not to think about what was going to happen.)
-
How awful for you. I'm sorry you lost Scotchy and went thru that
ordeal.  Did he die due to a reaction from his rabies vaccination?

Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

[Lorrie]

Good for you Ardy. Please update us on what your vets say.
-
Lorrie 
-
On 10-23, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but
>they said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one
>talked to me and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I would
>like the 4 vets in the office to either speak with me in a group, or
>talk amongst themselves and then I would come in and talk about my
>Tigger's future treatment. I talked about Winstrol to him, and he
>promised to check with the veterinary specialists and see what they
>have to say about it. I told him I wanted to know about Tigger's
>bloodwork (he has had blood tests, but no one has given me any results
>so I am really in the dark). I told him I want to be pro-active and not
>lose valuable time to treat things that pop up. He made a lot of
>promises to me, and I sincerely hope he follows through. I tried to
>impress upon him how important our little furball is to us, and that he
>deserves to have everything possible done for him. I told him I am
>willing to do the supportive care longterm or whatever is necessary,
>but did not want to do the unnecessary things. My goal is to change
>their minds about instantly writing off kitties who happen to be
>unfortunate enough to have this virus. I am so happy I found your group
>because I see that everyone who has posted seems to be of the same
>opinion.
> 
>Ardy Robertson
> 
>Osseo, WI

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Re: [Felvtalk] Merlot

[Lorrie]

Sometimes with a Felv pos. cat they get sick and the vet never does
actually find a cause, they simply go downhill. This has happened to
me many times, and when the cat or kitten won't eat and starts
hiding, I know it is time for him/her to be PTS.  Tthis is a terrible
decision to make, but dying slowly and painfully is worse. Felv can
cause so many different things happen to a cat, but it is a fatal
condition and positive cats always die.  Sometimes it's months and
other times years, but FelV is fatal. Vets try all kinds of things to
save them, but have not found a cure.  I'm not saying you are going
to lose Merlot, but this is what I've experienced with Felv pos.
cats.

Lorrie   



On 10-19, Maya D'Alessio wrote:
>Merlot was admitted to the vet hospital this morning. His fever is
>persisting and we still have no idea as to cause. Last night they
>tested for pancreatitis and that test came back normal. He got sub-Q
>fluids and they sent him home with us. He has vomitted a few times and
>he has not really kept down any nutrition since Saturday morning. They
>just did an x-ray but there is no obvious issue. They are going to do a
>barium contrast imaging series now after they administer IV fluids and
>antibiotics in hope that his fever will come down.
>The worst part is that we still really have no idea what is going on,
>so I am just waiting to hear and worrying :(
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FelV positive or negative

[Lorrie]

How right you are... It really is a crap shoot. I test all
newcomers to our sanctuary, but this does not mean the cat will be
Felv negative forever.  There is the re-emergence of the virus, the
test being done wrong, and the window area where a cat has  just
acquired the virus but it does not show up in the blood test yet.
-
Lorrie



> I have many cats. They live in groups, and occasionally one crosses
> from one group to another, or at least they did. All cats in my
> house have been FeLV tested at least twice (a minimum of 45 days
> apart), and all tested negative by Elisa. Two years ago in March,
> after blocking and subsequently going precipitously downhill, my
> Gribble tested positive for FeLV. After a major struggle, we got
> him back, at least for now. I now only test with routine bloodwork,
> or when someone is sick. One other cat has come up positive. He
> previously tested negative 3 times.
> 
> My point in all this is that I no longer believe negative means
> negative. I feel that the virus can become dormant in the bone
> marrow, and re-emerge to cause active infection. So I figure all I
> can do is now keep the groups separate, and vaccinate any incomers.
> Two cats have come in with special needs, and both live with the
> positives, because they also need monitoring. They are vaccinated.
> 
> It's a crap shoot :(
> 
> Margo
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Little Girl Coco

[Lorrie]

Kelley,
-
My vet told me it is very difficult for FelV cats to give the virus
to other adult cats. It is a different story with kittens who are
very susceptible, as their immune systems are not fully developed.
I've personally found that kittens born with FelV from a positive
mother almost always die. However, I have 10 adult cats who have been
with two FelV pos. cats for 5 years and none of them have become
positive.  FelV is not easily transmitted to adult cats, even when
they share food and water bowls.

Lorrie

n 09-29, Kelley wrote:

> By the way, various vets have told me regarding mixing vaccinated
> negatives and positives everything from "FELV is so contagious that
> if a positive cat licks a blade of grass and your negative cat
> comes along and licks the same blade of grass they will be
> infected" to "it's no big deal." So at this point I have to wonder
> how much good "a vet told me" is.
> 

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[Felvtalk] Capstar/Nytenpyram

[Lorrie]

Nytenpyram is excellent stuff. Much less expensive than Capstar. My
daughter has 27 rescued cats and she also buys it from Little City
Dogs.
-
I never have a severe flea problem as I vacuum every day, use
Advantage 2, have flea traps in every toom, and use flea combs.

Lorrie



On 09-28, Margo wrote:
>This year I also used Little City Dogs Nytenpyram (generic Capstar) in
>conjunction with Flea traps. Usually Advantage does fine. I tried
>multiple topicals, and this year, NOTHING worked. I did have to use it
>more than once, and used the dog size mixed into food for 6-8 cats,
>divided between them.
>Margo
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Merlin has gone to the bridge

[Lorrie]

Kelley,
-
You did NOT fail him.  Heart disease is not easily detected and cats
are very good at hiding their pain and illness.  I had a FelV cat who
just suddenly died at age 6 and she showed no symtoms of illness, she
simply laid down and died on the kitchen floor. This is the longest
any of my FelV cats lived. Most of them die at 8 to 10 months of age.
-
Lorrie 

On 09-27, Kelley S wrote:
>I failed him.  I did not notice his symptoms in time.  Now I have his
>"sister" (not blood related" by herself.  She is going to be
>miserable,she does not like to be alone.  I had an appointment for 2
>other cats on Monday.  I am switching her out with one of them so that
>I can get her completely checked out.  Not that heart failure is
>contagious, but I need to be more on top of my FELV+ cats, or now,
>cat.  I can't do this anymore, I don't know how yall do it.  I don't
>have "too many" cats overall, but I do think I have "too many" to
>handle many chronically ill (or potentially chronically ill).  I guess
>any cat is "potentially chronically ill." Â By the way, I fell even
>more in love with this doctor when he told me he had taken home 2 FELV+
>kittens from the clinic and they died before 10 months old.  I read
>between the lines that someone wanted their FELV+ kittens euthanized or
>did not want them when they tested pos. Â

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Re: [Felvtalk] Plan for Coco

[Lorrie]

To spay or not to spay, that is the question. I had one spayed years
ago and she came thru it fine, but this is the one who died suddenly
at age 6.  Her sister was not spayed, but put on birth control and she
is still alive and appears fine. My other FelV cats died mostly as
kittens ages 8 to 10 months, but one made it to a year and a half..
-
Lorrie


On 09-27, Kelley S wrote:
>Hi all,
>Coco is FELV+ kitty #2.  My plan for her so she doesn't feel so alone
>until I can bring myself to mix (all other kitties have tested
>negative, some multiple times) is to buy a large cat condo and put her
>in it at least a couple hours a day out here.  Now, what I want to ask
>yall about is spaying.  She is unsprayed..



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Re: [Felvtalk] Big Pharma

[Lorrie]

On 09-21, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

> I am sorry if I sound so negative on modern medicine, but have had
> some bad experiences and it leaves me a bit suspicious of modern
> medicine.  I have had a lot of luck with alternatives in cleaning
> up the side effects of it using an alternative salve and tonic.
> 

Can't say I blame you for being negative.   Big Pharma is in it for
the almighty dollar!

Lorrie 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Feline Leukemia How Contagious?

[Lorrie]

I have wondered exactly the same thing. I've had two FelV+ cats with
my other 8 neg. cats for over 5 years. They neg. cats were vaccinated
only once, and none have ever gotten sick.  Of the 2 FelV + cats,
one lived to the age of 7 and suddenly died with no prior illness.
The other 7 year old cat (her sister) is still fine.  One of my vets
told me it was very difficult for a grown cat to get FelV, but a
kitten born with it from a positive mother almost always dies. 

I had a litter of 4 pos. kittens and all of them died during the
first year of their lives. It was terribly heart breaking. 

Lorrie 



On 07-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:


 I am beginning to wonder if FELV is as contagious and the vets
 claim.  My cats are all ferals, dump cats and I have had 2 who were
 declared FELV positive.  One did pass in 2 years of something else. 
 Annie has been with me over 4 years now and at first, I vacinnated
 all the others .  2 years ago, I stopped that and everyone is
 healthy, bright eyed and happy.  I am convinced that Annie really
 is not positive, just a tremendeous amount of stress that happened
 just before I got her.  She has never shown any signs or symptoms
 of any disease.  The rest of the cats are healthy.



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[Felvtalk] Positive cats

[Lorrie]

Has anyone in the group had a cat or cats who tested positive on a
snap test 7 years ago (as kittens) and are still in apparent good
health?  I have two ferals who tested positive and both are still
doing fine. I have not had them retested due to their being feral 
as I'm afraid the stress of a vet visit will affect their immune
systems.  

Lorrie



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Re: [Felvtalk] Holistic vs traditional vets for felv

[Lorrie]

Kelley, I can certainly understand your dilema. Some FelV cats never 
get sick, but if they do you will have a lot of veterinary expense.  
Our lost cost clinic isn't cheap either, and if you are struggling
just to buy cat food and litter I hope you can rehome the FelV cats. 

Lorrie

On 03-15, Kelley wrote:
I can't pay anything. I'm trying to figure out how to eat and feed the
cats and buy cat litter.
 
We have a low cost spay neuter clinic here - the one who recommended
euth on the basis of one positive test.   The price is of a test is
$32.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Holistic vs traditional vets for felv

[Lorrie]

On 03-15, Kelley wrote:
Just tried and was turned down which is what I figured.  But I did try.
Interest is 26% unless you pay it off in 6 months by the way.

Yes the interest is terrible if you don't pay the loan off during
the alloted interest free time. I just paid off my daughters $930.
Care Credit account to keep her from having to pay that interest.
She has 20 rescued cats.

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite

[Lorrie]

On 03-01, trustinhi...@charter.net wrote:
 Has anyone seen these signs before?

Yes, this is very commom  with FelV+ cats. I've had several who
started eating less and less until they stopped eating completely 
were soon just skin and bones. At that point I had them euthanized. 
This was after several trips to a vet to try to help them feel 
better and live a little longer.  I am so sorry you are
experiencing this.

Lorrie  

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Re: [Felvtalk] newly diagnosed woth non-regenerative anemia

[Lorrie]

Susan,

I have had a lot of experience with FelV having a shelter with several FelV
cats. I wish I could give you more encouraging news, but if she is at the
point of eating litter she is desperately sick. With noregenerative anemia a
blood transfusion will only buy her a very small amount of time. The virus
is in her bone marrow will be unable to make more red blood cells. This lack
of red blood will affect her heart, liver, kidneys and all internal organs
as her lungs cannot get enough oxygenated blood to them.  It will be a
painful death as she deteriorates. I saw one of our FelV cats die like this
and I will never allow it to happen again.  My advice is to have her
euthanized before she gets in this shape. I know it's a terribly difficult,
decision, but better too soon that later.  Most of the 


When kittens are born wth FelV they almost always die, as their immune
systems are too immature to fight the virus. My last rescued litter of 4
FelV kittens died at 7 months 9 months 11 months and one made it to a year
old.  Older cats seem able to fight it off sometimes.

Lorrie


From: Susan Loesch pipercat...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 12:56 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] newly diagnosed woth non-regenerative anemia

Hello, folks...I haven't had any Felv kitties in a while but now have a
positive who is close to a year old. She was just pulled from a local
shelter...she had begun eating litter and wasn't going to get any vet
care. She had been tested when she came to the shelter a few months ago
and they knew she was positive but no followup care or testing was
done.
We immediately took her to our vet for bloodwork...she is anemic but
not bad enough yet for a transfusion, and the anemia is definitely
non-regenerative.
We think that she was probably born positive...the group of cats she
came in with...30 or so...had a number of positive adults, none
altered. So her life will likely be quite short, and already being
anemic doesn't bode well.
SO...those of you who have dealt with a kitty in this situation...what
do you recommend to give her the best chance at the most quality time?
I have always found that info from this list was better than from vets
who deal only marginally with Felv.
Thank you!


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Re: [Felvtalk] Suzy's Zoo in SC

[Lorrie]

Never heard of it and I've been researching sanctuarys for years.
Do they have a website?  Make sure they are legitimate and also
charge at least $1,000 UP  (mostly up) per cat as the ones who 
charge to little for the lifetime care of a cat will usually end
up with too many cats and get shut down.

Lorrie

On 01-04, Heather wrote:
 Hello, wondering if anyone has been to or has experience with this sanctuary? 
 A friend may contact them about a kitty she rescued. 
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Euthanized Shallie Marie, yesterday

[Lorrie]

I am so sorry. I have a FelV section in my private cat sanctuary
and I've euthanized so many.  All but one died from a FelV pos.
litter I took in last year.  The remaining cat Blueberry still
remains fine.

Lorrie 


On 01-04, czadna sacarawicz wrote:
  * six that tested positive in March 2010.
  *
  * Thanks for being with us - - lights in the darkness.  I had
suspected she was crashing.  Vets thought it was dental . . .   two
weeks later.  will leave it there.
  *
  * Now she joins her intrepid son Isaac, Mama and Luscious, Torie Rose
and BreAnne.
cz


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Re: [Felvtalk] Turning neg. then pos.

[Lorrie]

On 12-24, Lee Evans wrote:
 ...   had FeLv. She turned negative for a whole year, 
   then suddenly turned  positive. 

Wow Lee, I have never had that happen. My cats have either been
FelV neg. or positive, or positive, later turning turning negative
and staying that way. Do you have any explanation for what happened
with your cat?

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Stomatitis

[Lorrie]

Read below...


On 12-20, Jennifer Lewis wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 My poor Bryyn is having an awful time. Does anyone have experience with
 severe mouth pain? I've been told by vets that she's too young for
 stomatitis, but she's having a horrific time.
 
 My vet prescribed prednisone, but not only does it not seem to help, we're
 leery of it for the long term and honestly can't afford it.
 
 It seemed to be mostly jaw/lymph related as she would freak when yawning,
 but it's getting worse and I'm beside myself. She also has awful breath
 which makes me think as well it may be stomatitis.
 
 Please help!
 Jen
 
Jen, I don't believe stomatitis is only a problem in older cats.
Some cats that are quite young have it.  I have delt with it and
it is difficult to deal with.  Vets usually alternate between pred.
and antibiotics, and in worse case scenario all the cats teeth must
be removed, which is quite costly.  Howvever since you mention this
jaw/lymph connection I'd definitely get another opinion. It may not
be her teeth at all.

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Uneven pupils

[Lorrie]

One of my cats has uneven pupils, but he is not FelV positive.
He was hit on the head by some low life bastard before I rescued him.

Lorrie

On 12-20, gbl...@aristotle.net wrote:
The only ones I've had with uneven pupils are Felv cats, and then only
a couple.
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Soap box (Lee)

[Lorrie]

Hi Lee, I love it whenyou get up on your soap box because you and I
are always on the same page!   

You and your kitties have a wonderful Christmas.

Love Lorrie, and 26 furry beasties.

On 12-16, Lee Evans wrote:
Well, this is the real American Dream, to be able to treat yourself
like a fish if you haven't any money while those who have money are
keeping most of us from being treated like humans due to overpricing of
medications and very little affordable health insurance.  AndI'm
off my soap box and back to my litter boxes.



On Monday, December 16, 2013 6:26 AM, Lorrie
felineres...@frontier.com wrote:
 
I use vet, bird, aquarium antibiotics frequently. They are exactly
the same as human drugs and you save a bundle of money!
Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] TESTING

[Lorrie]

Lee, all you have written is SO true. Testing is never definitive and
being positive or negative for FelV is very iffy. How are Sampson and
Deliliah after the exposure to Callie?

Lorrie 


On 12-15, Lee Evans wrote:
With Callie's weird stools, I don't feel it would be lymphoma. More
likely, if it happens on a schedule, as you said every few weeks, it's
environmental. Does your mom have the house cleaned with something that
Callie could inhale or ingest? Does she buy different cat foods for the
cats? Maybe run out of one cat food, buy another every few weeks? Check
out things like that.

Well, I'm not a big fan of testing any more. My poor Bunny was tested
when she was brought to me and was positive for FeLv. I kept her more
than the required time, retested and she was negative. We all cheered.
She lived with me a little under a year from then. She came as an 8
month old teen, was spayed and given the rabies vaccine. Stayed healthy
after her retest until October of this year. Then she just faded. She
stopped playing, stopped being a silly nuisance to Delilah and Samson
and finally stopped eating. I took her to the vet because I noticed her
gums looked pale. Not flea anemia. He retested her and she was positive
for FeLv. He explained that maybe the first test was a false negative
or maybe the virus was lurking in the bone marrow as well as the
regular place in the blood. He gave her a vitamin shot, gave her
anti-biotic shot and she seemed to rally for a couple of days, ate a
bit, then on Oct. 31 she just lay down in the bed I made for her on the
floor and passed away. So, tests are just that - tests but they are not
crystal balls and can't predict what will happen to a cat in the future
when it comes to FeLv. Bunny would have been two years old in April,
2014. On the other hand, Moses, who overcame the positive FeLv
diagnosis and turned negative, is still with me after 7 years.
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Bite

[Lorrie]

I use vet, bird, aquarium antibiotics frequently. They are exactly
the same as human drugs and you save a bundle of money!

Lorrie

On 12-15, Jill Eisenbraun wrote:

 I recently had an abscessed tooth and treated it with aquarium
 antibiotics, the triple sulfa powder you can buy in any aquarium shop.
 Worked like a charm and only cost me $13!
 
 Jill and kitties
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] on another note...

[Lorrie]

I can understand your mom's reluctance to have Callie retested, but
I'd rather know one way or the other.  However, I have had extensive
experience with FelV pos. cats and I have never seen diarrhea as a
symptom of the virus.

Lorrie


On 12-15, Lance wrote:

 The bite seems to be about the same as it was yesterday, though maybe a
 little less red where the actual teeth penetration occurred. Fortunately,
 no pink lines are other odd marks have showed up near the wound. I didn?t
 go to the clinic, since things look like they?re doing well. My health has
 been a little funky for the last six months, but I feel like my immune
 system is in reasonably good shape.
 
 Anyway, some of you may remember that my FeLV+ (Ember) probably bit an
 FeLV- (Callie) who hasn?t been vaccinated since her kitten days seven
 years ago. Callie, who was almost definitely FeLV- before this encounter,
 tested negative at 37 days post-exposure, but she wasn?t retested at the
 usual 90 day mark. She?s my mom?s cat, and my mom is reluctant to test. I
 think she just doesn?t want to know. While I understand that, the anxiety
 from not knowing occasionally really gets to me, and there are things we
 could do for Callie to prolong her life, despite what my parents seem to
 think.
 
 Callie has had bouts of diarrhea since the encounter. I don?t know if she
 had anything like this before it, as I didn?t really pay close attention
 to that aspect of her life. She had frequent runny poops in June and July
 (around the time of the negative FeLV test), then the frequency went down,
 **as far as I know and have been told**.
 
 Since around August, the runny poops hit daily for one to three days every
 three to four weeks. Again, this is from what I can gather. Earlier today,
 Callie had a normal poop, but in the same bowel movement, there was some
 watery stool on top of the normal stuff. If she?s positive, what could
 this be, other than lymphoma? If she ISN?T positive, then what might this
 be? Very odd that it happens every few weeks.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Lance

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Re: [Felvtalk] OT: cat bite

[Lorrie]

Excellent advice.  I do the same if it is one of my cats.
I also keep Augmenten, the antibiotic of choice, for deep bite
wounds on hand, just in case..Lorrie



On 12-14, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: This looks like nothing to me,
 especially since it was your own cat.  You know it's health and it is not
 likely to have any disease to transmit.  Do you have peroxide and an
 antibiotic ointment around?  Did it bleed much?  It is always good to let
 a bite wound bleed out do help wash out bacteria.  A neighbor's cat bit me
 once (he was going for Harley and got me).  He hit a large vein on the
 back of my hand, blood was spurting all over.  I let it bleed a few
 minutes, washed my hand off and poured peroxide over my hand.  Then I made
 a pressure bandage with 2 - 4 x 4's and wrapped it tight.  I went to the
 ER after I cleaned up the house and garage.  They said I had a nice
 pressure bandage, gave me a prescription for antibiotics and sent me home. 
 These days, I take care of these things myself.  I had my doctor give me a
 prescription for antibiotics so I would have some handy, just in case.  My
 experience with ER's has not been too good at our local hospital so I rely
 on myself.  Unless the teeth went in deep and the bacteria could not get
 out, I would not worry.  I have been doing this for at least 60 years and
 am still alive to tell about it.
 
  

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Re: [Felvtalk] Topical Flea Control

[Lorrie]

I am having the same problem.. Nothing is working as the fleas
have built up immunity against our flea products.  I use flea combs,
flea traps and vacuum often.

Lorrie

On 12-04, Beth wrote:
Neither Frontline or Advantage has worked for me this year. Just
vacuuming  flea combing :(
Beth
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Adopting

[Lorrie]

Thank you for adoptiing this FelV pos. cat. I have several and they are
all ages from 2 years to 6 years old. So far they have not been sick, even
tho they were unknowingly exposed to a cat who died from FelV.   Kittens
seem to be the most susceptable to this virus and most die before they are
a year old.

Lorrie

On 11-26, Kristi Stringer wrote:
I just found out that the cat i am adopting has Felv but have decided
to give her a loving home anyway  Working with retrovirises is part of
my job {in humans } so i feel like i could provide her with the love
and care she needs. Any advice asbo begin this journey?
 
Currently she is symptomatic


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Re: [Felvtalk] Please help with testing confusion!

[Lorrie]

Leslie,

If they are both FelV positive the tests should not make a difference.
I have a FelV sanctuary and all my FelV cats are together and live in 
4 large rooms sharing litter, food  water.  If Moe and Baby are well
acquainted they will be happier living with each other than alone. If
they don't know each other you will have to do the introduction thing.

Lorrie


On 10-14, one23di...@aol.com wrote:
I'm confused and hope people can help me to understand this.
 
I have two cats who have tested positive for felv.  One, Moe has tested
positive twice on the ELISA, and the tests were done a year apart.
Baby, has tested positive both on a SNAP and an IFA test - done two
months apart.  Different vets were used.
 
They have been kept separate, both from each other and our negative
cats.
 
So, the question is can they be safely introduced to each other?  Do I
need Moe to be retested using the IFA?  Do I need Baby retested using
the ELISA?
 
Please, any light that can be shed on this will be incredibly helpful.
 Thank you so much!
 
Leslie  the furballs


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Re: [Felvtalk] virus has finally caught up with her

[Lorrie]

Dear Jennifer,

You did the right thing. I have had many FelV cats, and other
than giving fluids to make them more comfortable or taking care of 
something like an infection that a vet can treat, I will NOT put a
cat of mine thru any heroic measures. I have tried assist feeding, 
and I've watched them gag and try to get away from me. This is pure
torture for them as well as for me, the torturer. I know a lot of you 
will disagree with me, but when a FelV cat becomes desperately ill I 
put them down.  I give my FelV cats as good a life as I can while
they are alive and well, but when they are dying I let them go. 
Thank you for making the brave decision you made.  You will miss 
Sasha terribly, but you did the kindest thing you could for her.

Hugs for you from Lorrie 

On 10-10, Jennifer Ballew wrote:
Put Sasha down today.  I think it was time.  :-(
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] virus has finally caught up with her

[Lorrie]

Jennifer,
Thank you for writing. I wish everyone would give a kind gentle death 
to their pets with an incurable disease. It is the quality of life
that matters, not seeing how long you can keep a pet alive.  I wish
people could also have a gentle death when they are dying, but only
three states allow this.

Lorrie

On 10-11, Jennifer Ballew wrote:
Lorrie-
 
Thank you for the kind words.  I debated back and forth, and after a
lnng discussion with the vet I decided putting her down was the
best thing for her.  I did what you did: gave her the best life I
could, but let her go when it was time.
 
Thanks again,
Jennifer
 
On Oct 11, 2013 5:41 AM, Lorrie [1]felineres...@frontier.com wrote:
 
  Dear Jennifer,
  You did the right thing. I have had many FelV cats, and other
  than giving fluids to make them more comfortable or taking care of
  something like an infection that a vet can treat, I will NOT put a
  cat of mine thru any heroic measures. I have tried assist feeding,
  and I've watched them gag and try to get away from me. This is pure
  torture for them as well as for me, the torturer. I know a lot of
  you
  will disagree with me, but when a FelV cat becomes desperately ill I
  put them down.  I give my FelV cats as good a life as I can while
  they are alive and well, but when they are dying I let them go.
  Thank you for making the brave decision you made.  You will miss
  Sasha terribly, but you did the kindest thing you could for her.
  Hugs for you from Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] a question

[Lorrie]

With FelV cats you don't wait around.  Get her to the vet!

Lorrie

On 09-30, cer...@new.rr.com wrote:
My FeLeuk girl has been pretty asymptomatic for quite
a while. Now she is starting to wet the bed. Has that
happened to any of your guys, and if so, what does it
mean?
 
Thanks-Chris C.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Chicken feathers, etc

[Lorrie]

Lee,  I loved hearing about your grandmother.  I absolutely adored my
grandparents, and in the 1940's they had a large farm with cows, horses, 
chickens, ducks etc. Their house was a big 20 room victorian and had 5 
stories counting the basement, first floor, second floor, a full third 
floor and a big attic. My cousins and I could play hide and go seek and 
not find each other for hours!

You and I are both fortunate to have had such wonderful grandparents.
Mine have been gone for many many years, but I still miss them.

Lorrie


On 09-15, Lee Evans wrote:
This was a long time ago, in the 1950's when there were still private
butchers and my grandmother would buy her chickens from the butcher who
would pluck them there in the store so some feathers were always left
on. Yes, she was from Odessa, Russia and only spoke German and Russian.
She would tell me (in German and broken English) that the coffee was a
French recipe. My grandfather had traveled all the way from France
across Europe to Russia. He was an itinerant philosophy professor and
taught his way across Europe at Universities. The French coffee was
probably his idea. I was too young to drink coffee but it was
traditional to put some in my milk. Then I would watch the coffee
grains float. I loved my grandmother. She was very kind to me and I
loved visiting her because I could go through the mysterious wardrobes
and inspect the dresses and hats my aunt created. The building was in
an ethnic neighborhood in New York City, the doors were never locked
and people of every color and language were constantly walking in and
out, as were dogs and cats from the area. I picked up a rudimentary
understanding of quite a few languages before I was a teenager. There
were always strangers in the apartment having coffee or a meal and
conversations with my grandmother or my uncle and always some dog or
cat being fed in the hallway.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Hemobart

[Lorrie]

On 09-15, trustinhi...@charter.net wrote:
 What is a hemobart?

Hemobartonella is blood parasite that causes cats to become
anemic.  It can be cured with antibiotics, but I believe it is
difficult to get an accurate test result and FelV cats are often
put down as anemia is also a killer of cats with feline Leukemia.

Lorrie


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Re: [Felvtalk] Chicken feathers

[Lorrie]

Egads Lee, I'm sure you were not eager to visit granny!!


On 09-14, Lee Evans wrote:
Not kidding about the chicken feather soup. She also specialized in
coffee boiled with milk and coffee grounds. Then after a while, it
would form a leather skin on top and we had to cut through to the
coffee. Yech! Burned scrambled eggs, almost raw liver, black toast. I
would say that my grandmother was a very intelligent woman but not a
gourmet cook. My uncles cat loved the liver though.
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Re: [Felvtalk] OT - using humans

[Lorrie]

Great idea. Love the names of that cat food Lee.

On 09-13, Lee Evans wrote:
Yum! And the choices for Population Control Pate can be Burglar Beef in
Gravy, Rapist Shreds and  WifeBeater Bits all formulated for
nutritional balance by Friskems Criminal Cat Food Company. And for the
fat cat who really loves Premium Food at a high price, you can have
Politician Pate and Pork Barrel Pork.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Chicken feathers

[Lorrie]

Well, feathers are protein, but I sure wouldn't want to eat them. 
Are you kidding about your grandmother's soup??

Lorrie

On 09-13, Lee Evans wrote:
Did someone mention that Royal Canin grinds up chicken feathers as the
protein source in their very expensive cat food? Sheesh! Well, it can't
be too bad. My grandmother used to have a liberal topping of chicken
feathers in her chicken soup throughout my childhood. The cats didn't
seem to mind it.


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Re: [Felvtalk] OT - using humans

[Lorrie]

What a great idea, and not just naturally deceased humans for cat
food, but child molesters, rapists, etc.  Entirely too many humans
are degenerates who would make excellent cat chow!! 


On 09-11, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

 and when do they start using deceased humans as an acceptable source of
 protein.  They already use animals euthanized by humane society.  I think
 it is time for God to put an end to us, we do not deserve to live on this
 beautiful planet that we are in the processing of destroying.


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