Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-23 Thread Josh Babcock
Curtis Olson wrote: if we had to ditch the ship out there, it could have been really ugly ... Yeah, I hear a water landing in a ship is pretty hard. Better than a runway landing in a ship though :) Josh -- This SF.net

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-23 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:57:55 -0500, Josh wrote in message 497a0523.9070...@atlantech.net: Curtis Olson wrote: if we had to ditch the ship out there, it could have been really ugly ... Yeah, I hear a water landing in a ship is pretty hard. Better than a runway landing in a ship though :)

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-23 Thread Curtis Olson
Well, my point was that just the part about having to sit in the water (not considering the impact) would still be ugly. Curt. On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Josh Babcock jbabc...@atlantech.netwrote: Curtis Olson wrote: if we had to ditch the ship out there, it could have been really

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-19 Thread Lee Duke
The autopilot would have been the easy part. I offered to do one having just demonstrated--on the HiMAT vehicle---an autopilot that performed flight test maneuver automatically. The pilot, Fitz Fulton, refused. He believed he could fly manually from a remote location. Curtis Olson wrote: On

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Erik Hofman
John Denker wrote: Around here it has received around-the-clock news coverage. The commentators are amazed at how lucky the passengers were. They all use the same word: It's a miracle. I disagree. Any time your airliner loses both engines is *not* your lucky day. And while a successful

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Sébastien MARQUE
Hi all, I'm not a RL pilot, but I suppose that piloting in real life is hard because most of the time nothing special happens. Then the concentration is hard to maintain to a high level and in case of emergency follow the procedures (aircraft/flying aeras), adapt to the environment (buildings,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:00:32 -0800, John wrote in message 49727f30.90...@mminternet.com: Curtis Olson wrote: On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:00 PM, syd adams adams@gmail.com wrote: So, how about it? Who is serious about going down that road? I am , for one, which is why I dont get

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread John Denker
On 01/18/2009 02:22 AM, Erik Hofman wrote: I still think the passengers where lucky to have such a skilled pilot at the controls... Not too long ago one of my relatives came up to me and said: Him: I've always thought you were incredibly lucky, and I wondered why. Now I begin to

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Jon S. Berndt
All these crews are lucky, if you want to call it that. They're lucky because there's a lot of crashworthiness and even ditchworthiness built into the airframe, and because the crews train like crazy, far in excess of the already-strict FAA requirements. Yes, the entire flight crew was

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread John Denker
On 01/18/2009 08:28 AM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: With that said, I'd be careful about claiming ditchworthiness. It *is* something they design for. It's required by the FARs. Newer aircraft are better at it than older aircraft. And that's not a fluke or any kind of miracle. It's something they

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Jon wrote: With that said, I'd be careful about claiming ditchworthiness. John Denker replied: It *is* something they design for. It's required by the FARs. In words, sure. In designing for efficiency, revenue, robustness, etc. and ditchworthiness, I don't believe you can design for the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread John Denker
On 01/18/2009 12:53 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Newer aircraft are better at it than older aircraft. And that's not a fluke or any kind of miracle. It's something they design for. You are simply asserting what aircraft manufacturers are *supposed* to do. You think I am just making this

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Jon S. Berndt
The above applies to everybody. There are additional requirements if you want to be certified for extended overwater flight. And no, I'm not making that up, either. You you can read for yourself at e.g. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySect

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Lee Duke
I don't want to take sides in this discussion, I just wanted to share some information about the Controlled Impact Demonstration (CID)--or as it was known at Dryden, Crash In the Desert. The story of what happened depends on who you talk to. I remember that the FAA was not very happy with the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Thanks. I do remember seeing the in-cabin movies of the unhappy dummies that were part of the study. JB From: Lee Duke [mailto:d...@rainmountainsystems.com] Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:54 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-18 Thread Curtis Olson
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Thanks. I do remember seeing the in-cabin movies of the unhappy dummies that were part of the study. You know, if NASA did screw up the final test, maybe someone should suggest the mythbusters redo this on their show? I've got the

[Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread John Denker
Hi Folks -- I suppose you've heard about the Airbus A320 that ditched in the Hudson river, in the shadow of downtown Manhattan, on Thursday. As crashes go, it must be considered a success, since there were no fatalities and almost no serious injuries. Around here it has received

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Hi Folks -- I suppose you've heard about the Airbus A320 that ditched in the Hudson river, in the shadow of downtown Manhattan, on Thursday. As crashes go, it must be considered a success, since there were no fatalities and almost no serious injuries. Around here it has received

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread syd adams
So, how about it? Who is serious about going down that road? I am , for one, which is why I dont get the apperent need to impress the general user community... I didn't think we were creating a game here... I'm currently more interested in getting the glass cockpits to behave realistically , but

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread Curtis Olson
On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Many of you recall the hijacked airliner than ran out of fuel ten or fifteen years ago. The resulting ditching didn't turn out so well, with most people drowning. That was on the ocean near the shore. In the recent case, it appears that

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread Curtis Olson
On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:00 PM, syd adams adams@gmail.com wrote: So, how about it? Who is serious about going down that road? I am , for one, which is why I dont get the apperent need to impress the general user community... I didn't think we were creating a game here... I'm currently

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread Martin Spott
syd adams wrote: Input is always appreciated , with facts and docs to back it up , but not the its wrong because I say so kind of help ... Well put ! Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread John Denker
On 01/17/2009 05:16 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: http://www.atcflightsim.com/index.html If I may be permitted to answer in kind: http://www.atcflightsim.com/pricing.html -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread Curtis Olson
On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:30 PM, John Denker j...@av8n.com wrote: On 01/17/2009 05:16 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: http://www.atcflightsim.com/index.html If I may be permitted to answer in kind: http://www.atcflightsim.com/pricing.html You are expecting a complete cockpit enclosure,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread John Wojnaroski
Curtis Olson wrote: On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:00 PM, syd adams adams@gmail.com wrote: So, how about it? Who is serious about going down that road? I am , for one, which is why I dont get the apperent need to impress the general user community... I didn't think we were creating a game

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread Curtis Olson
On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 7:00 PM, John Wojnaroski cas...@mminternet.comwrote: Or for that matter http://www.lfstech.com/index.html Good point. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This

Re: [Flightgear-devel] airliner ditching miracle ... or not

2009-01-17 Thread John Wojnaroski
Curtis Olson wrote: On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:30 PM, John Denker j...@av8n.com wrote: On 01/17/2009 05:16 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: http://www.atcflightsim.com/index.html If I may be permitted to answer in kind: http://www.atcflightsim.com/pricing.html You are expecting