Re: [Flightgear-devel] Generic Headshake/G-compression
--- On Sun, 20/4/08, Ron Jensen wrote: On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 12:55 -0700, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi All, Enthused by a comment on the forum by snork (http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1333), I've been working on an extension to the generic blackout/redout script which attempts to simulate the feeling of compression due to g-forces, by moving the pilot viewpoint vertically depending on the apparent g-force. This has now been checked in. 2) Currently the redout and headshake enabling properties are userarchive, which (as I understand it) means that the user's preference will over-write any aircraft setting. Given that both these generic features duplicate existing aircraft-specific code, I think I should remove this flag, so aircraft designers can over-ride it. Any comments? STRONGLY OPPOSE. User preference should absolutely outweigh the aircraft designer. While I might feel, as an aircraft designer, that a function adds a degree of realism, I can't and don't test on different hardware, monitor resolutions, multi-head setups, hardware simulator setups, etc. which head-shake may cause problems with. I personally find it annoying to have the panels jumping around during IFR flight. OK. I've left the enabling properties as userarchive. However, aircraft designers can _disable_ it by simply settings /sim/rendering/headshake/rate-m-g=0 I think that should satisfy both users and aircraft designers. -Stuart __ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Generic Headshake/G-compression
Ron Jensen wrote: Sent: 20 April 2008 21:30 On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 12:55 -0700, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi All, Enthused by a comment on the forum by snork (http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1333), I've been working on an extension to the generic blackout/redout script which attempts to simulate the feeling of compression due to g-forces, by moving the pilot viewpoint vertically depending on the apparent g-force. This is a simplified version of what vivian, Josh et al. created for the Buccaneer and other aircraft. Of course, the main advantage of this is that it is completely generic, and pretty lightweight too. The overhead ontop of the redout/blackout is minimal: one extra property read/write per frame, only when the feature is enabled and in cockpit view. A patch for this is available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/headshake.patch Comments are very welcome, but I'm particularly interested in peoples views on the following: 1) Obviously this duplicates some aircraft-specific code, and one can argue that this sort of feature is only important for high-energy jets, where it should be modelled in more detail than I have done. I've been playing with this code on the Stampe, A4-F and Pitts, and have felt that it has improved the feeling of realism, but then I wrote it ;) Do people feel it is worth providing a generic implementation, given that for most GA flying is at 2g or less, and this will move the pilot viewpoint 5cm! It is worthwhile to model generically. Many aircraft in CVS could benefit from this feature without having to recode it for each. 2) Currently the redout and headshake enabling properties are userarchive, which (as I understand it) means that the user's preference will over-write any aircraft setting. Given that both these generic features duplicate existing aircraft-specific code, I think I should remove this flag, so aircraft designers can over-ride it. Any comments? STRONGLY OPPOSE. User preference should absolutely outweigh the aircraft designer. While I might feel, as an aircraft designer, that a function adds a degree of realism, I can't and don't test on different hardware, monitor resolutions, multi-head setups, hardware simulator setups, etc. which head-shake may cause problems with. I personally find it annoying to have the panels jumping around during IFR flight. Are we talking about the same utility? Headshake as implemented is a comparatively small effect, which is only visible at moderate to high G loadings - you should never see it in IFR flight (unless you have been trying aerobatics in IFR). I can antcipate no interaction with different hardware, monitor resolutions, or multi-head setups, although it does need to be disabled for hardware simulator setups. And unless you are seeing a bug, the movement is gradual and only jumps around in the event of very high G loadings - in a crash for example. Did you mean dynamic view? 3) At the moment, this feature is limited to the y-offset of the pilot viewpoint. For non-military aircraft, the most significant g-forces will be felt in the y-axis (in the pilots frame of reference), as they cannot yaw fast enough to cause any in the x-axis, and they don't have enough power to cause any in the z-axis. If it is worth providing a generic feature, is it worth making it multi-dimensional? It may be worth while to add. Perhaps it could be used to give a sense of slip/skid for the GA pilot. Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Generic Headshake/G-compression
Hi All, Enthused by a comment on the forum by snork (http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1333), I've been working on an extension to the generic blackout/redout script which attempts to simulate the feeling of compression due to g-forces, by moving the pilot viewpoint vertically depending on the apparent g-force. This is a simplified version of what vivian, Josh et al. created for the Buccaneer and other aircraft. Of course, the main advantage of this is that it is completely generic, and pretty lightweight too. The overhead ontop of the redout/blackout is minimal: one extra property read/write per frame, only when the feature is enabled and in cockpit view. A patch for this is available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/headshake.patch Comments are very welcome, but I'm particularly interested in peoples views on the following: 1) Obviously this duplicates some aircraft-specific code, and one can argue that this sort of feature is only important for high-energy jets, where it should be modelled in more detail than I have done. I've been playing with this code on the Stampe, A4-F and Pitts, and have felt that it has improved the feeling of realism, but then I wrote it ;) Do people feel it is worth providing a generic implementation, given that for most GA flying is at 2g or less, and this will move the pilot viewpoint 5cm! 2) Currently the redout and headshake enabling properties are userarchive, which (as I understand it) means that the user's preference will over-write any aircraft setting. Given that both these generic features duplicate existing aircraft-specific code, I think I should remove this flag, so aircraft designers can over-ride it. Any comments? 3) At the moment, this feature is limited to the y-offset of the pilot viewpoint. For non-military aircraft, the most significant g-forces will be felt in the y-axis (in the pilots frame of reference), as they cannot yaw fast enough to cause any in the x-axis, and they don't have enough power to cause any in the z-axis. If it is worth providing a generic feature, is it worth making it multi-dimensional? -Stuart __ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Generic Headshake/G-compression
On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 12:55 -0700, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi All, Enthused by a comment on the forum by snork (http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1333), I've been working on an extension to the generic blackout/redout script which attempts to simulate the feeling of compression due to g-forces, by moving the pilot viewpoint vertically depending on the apparent g-force. This is a simplified version of what vivian, Josh et al. created for the Buccaneer and other aircraft. Of course, the main advantage of this is that it is completely generic, and pretty lightweight too. The overhead ontop of the redout/blackout is minimal: one extra property read/write per frame, only when the feature is enabled and in cockpit view. A patch for this is available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/headshake.patch Comments are very welcome, but I'm particularly interested in peoples views on the following: 1) Obviously this duplicates some aircraft-specific code, and one can argue that this sort of feature is only important for high-energy jets, where it should be modelled in more detail than I have done. I've been playing with this code on the Stampe, A4-F and Pitts, and have felt that it has improved the feeling of realism, but then I wrote it ;) Do people feel it is worth providing a generic implementation, given that for most GA flying is at 2g or less, and this will move the pilot viewpoint 5cm! It is worthwhile to model generically. Many aircraft in CVS could benefit from this feature without having to recode it for each. 2) Currently the redout and headshake enabling properties are userarchive, which (as I understand it) means that the user's preference will over-write any aircraft setting. Given that both these generic features duplicate existing aircraft-specific code, I think I should remove this flag, so aircraft designers can over-ride it. Any comments? STRONGLY OPPOSE. User preference should absolutely outweigh the aircraft designer. While I might feel, as an aircraft designer, that a function adds a degree of realism, I can't and don't test on different hardware, monitor resolutions, multi-head setups, hardware simulator setups, etc. which head-shake may cause problems with. I personally find it annoying to have the panels jumping around during IFR flight. 3) At the moment, this feature is limited to the y-offset of the pilot viewpoint. For non-military aircraft, the most significant g-forces will be felt in the y-axis (in the pilots frame of reference), as they cannot yaw fast enough to cause any in the x-axis, and they don't have enough power to cause any in the z-axis. If it is worth providing a generic feature, is it worth making it multi-dimensional? It may be worth while to add. Perhaps it could be used to give a sense of slip/skid for the GA pilot. Ron - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Generic Headshake/G-compression
Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi All, Enthused by a comment on the forum by snork (http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1333), I've been working on an extension to the generic blackout/redout script which attempts to simulate the feeling of compression due to g-forces, by moving the pilot viewpoint vertically depending on the apparent g-force. This is a simplified version of what vivian, Josh et al. created for the Buccaneer and other aircraft. Of course, the main advantage of this is that it is completely generic, and pretty lightweight too. The overhead ontop of the redout/blackout is minimal: one extra property read/write per frame, only when the feature is enabled and in cockpit view. A patch for this is available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/headshake.patch Comments are very welcome, but I'm particularly interested in peoples views on the following: 1) Obviously this duplicates some aircraft-specific code, and one can argue that this sort of feature is only important for high-energy jets, where it should be modelled in more detail than I have done. I've been playing with this code on the Stampe, A4-F and Pitts, and have felt that it has improved the feeling of realism, but then I wrote it ;) Do people feel it is worth providing a generic implementation, given that for most GA flying is at 2g or less, and this will move the pilot viewpoint 5cm! 2) Currently the redout and headshake enabling properties are userarchive, which (as I understand it) means that the user's preference will over-write any aircraft setting. Given that both these generic features duplicate existing aircraft-specific code, I think I should remove this flag, so aircraft designers can over-ride it. Any comments? 3) At the moment, this feature is limited to the y-offset of the pilot viewpoint. For non-military aircraft, the most significant g-forces will be felt in the y-axis (in the pilots frame of reference), as they cannot yaw fast enough to cause any in the x-axis, and they don't have enough power to cause any in the z-axis. If it is worth providing a generic feature, is it worth making it multi-dimensional? -Stuart Hi Stuart , I had this option long long ago in all my aircraft , but Martin Spot claimed that it was unrealistic , so I removed it ... the old code is still in the 787 (which is a modification of the 777 Justin and I worked on ) , and the A6M2 has the code in jwarbirds.nas ... Personally , I like the effect :) Cheers Syd - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
