Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
Jacob Burbach wrote: So one last request to do with ATIS, may we have a check box in the sound config dialog to toggle the FlightGear ATIS on and off? Or do we already have a way to do so that I have overlooked? I could not find a reference in the code or in one of the xml files, so I guess it's not possible at this time. I'll add it to the todo list. Erik -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:20 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: Jacob Burbach wrote: So one last request to do with ATIS, may we have a check box in the sound config dialog to toggle the FlightGear ATIS on and off? Or do we already have a way to do so that I have overlooked? I could not find a reference in the code or in one of the xml files, so I guess it's not possible at this time. I'll add it to the todo list. Erik I traced the code back to FGATC::Render and found reference to '/sim/sound/voice'. Setting this to false does indeed seem to get rid of the ATIS, but has some problems. Changing this value while tuned to ATIS can lead to strange results...ATIS not turning off when tuned away or not turning on again when tuned in. If your careful to set it false before tuning in, it does disable the ATIS speech though, but you have to be careful to only set it true again when tuned away. I also found that '/sim/atc/enabled' seems to have the same effect, with the same quirks/bugs. cheers! --Jacob -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
I have been experimenting with generating custom, realistic, and more useful ATIS message on FGCOM using Festival with great success. The only problem is that when tuning to the ATIS frequency you get the FlightGear default ATIS as well, which is not very useful. So one last request to do with ATIS, may we have a check box in the sound config dialog to toggle the FlightGear ATIS on and off? Or do we already have a way to do so that I have overlooked? cheers! --Jacob -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
Jacob Burbach wrote: A couple observations: 1. Cannot adjust volume of atis(comm radios) from sound config dialog. I believe it is meant to be adjusted on the aircrafts audio panel. At least they are not exposed to properties which makes it difficult to adjust using the gui. If people think it would be a good idea it's easy to tie them to properties though. 2. Adjusting the volume of the comm radios causes the atis to jump to a different position in her dialog...doh! I'm not sure I completely understand this, the atis (chatter) slider of the sound configuration panel moves with the adjustment of the aircraft audio panel volume? Erik -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: Jacob Burbach wrote: A couple observations: 1. Cannot adjust volume of atis(comm radios) from sound config dialog. I believe it is meant to be adjusted on the aircrafts audio panel. At least they are not exposed to properties which makes it difficult to adjust using the gui. If people think it would be a good idea it's easy to tie them to properties though. Having thought about this some more, I think the comm radios should probably belong to the avionics group rather than a new, separate group. This way you could easily adjust all radio (nav and comm) volumes relative to other groups, and then use the individual radio volumes from the aircrafts audio panel(if it has one) for fine tuning each relative to each other. 2. Adjusting the volume of the comm radios causes the atis to jump to a different position in her dialog...doh! I'm not sure I completely understand this, the atis (chatter) slider of the sound configuration panel moves with the adjustment of the aircraft audio panel volume? If I adjust the volume for the radio tuned to ATIS, it will skip to a completely different part of the speech with each adjustment. It's seems the ATIS audio stream is getting restarted in a different position (or maybe regenerated?) every time the comm radios volume is adjusted. Tune a radio to ATIS, and then start adjusting that radios volume and it should become very clear what I mean. On another note, I have noticed some cockpit sounds change volume randomly, as if the volume or distance changed for some unknown reason. This is without having changed the view position and orientation in any way. For example, in the tu154b toggling the switch for the autopilot system will give you a short series of beeps. I can stay in same view, toggling the switch off and on, and the volume will often change randomly, sometimes normal, sometimes very quiet. cheers! --Jacob -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
Jacob Burbach wrote: Having thought about this some more, I think the comm radios should probably belong to the avionics group rather than a new, separate group. This way you could easily adjust all radio (nav and comm) volumes relative to other groups, and then use the individual radio volumes from the aircrafts audio panel(if it has one) for fine tuning each relative to each other. That's how it's supposed to be now (although it seems ATIS doesn't respond to audio mixer volume slider atm). 2. Adjusting the volume of the comm radios causes the atis to jump to a different position in her dialog...doh! I'm not sure I completely understand this, the atis (chatter) slider of the sound configuration panel moves with the adjustment of the aircraft audio panel volume? If I adjust the volume for the radio tuned to ATIS, it will skip to a completely different part of the speech with each adjustment. It's seems the ATIS audio stream is getting restarted in a different position (or maybe regenerated?) every time the comm radios volume is adjusted. Tune a radio to ATIS, and then start adjusting that radios volume and it should become very clear what I mean. Ah ok, audio volume on the cockpit instrument does indeed have that behavior. I think I've read a comment in the code about this. On another note, I have noticed some cockpit sounds change volume randomly, as if the volume or distance changed for some unknown reason. This is without having changed the view position and orientation in any way. For example, in the tu154b toggling the switch for the autopilot system will give you a short series of beeps. I can stay in same view, toggling the switch off and on, and the volume will often change randomly, sometimes normal, sometimes very quiet. hm that's bad. Erik -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
Erik Hofman wrote: That's how it's supposed to be now (although it seems ATIS doesn't respond to audio mixer volume slider atm). Ah, I forgot I did ATC to atc but it includes both ATIS in ATC voice. Erik -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
On 2 Dec 2009, at 07:40, Erik Hofman wrote: Secondly, I think it would be beneficial to have the ability to specify a sound device for a certain group. So you could, for example, send aircraft sounds to your speakers, and radio sounds to a headset. Could be done with the current code but is low proirity for me. The only useful split I know of, is radio sounds separate to 'cockpit/exterior' sounds. That's actually why I was working on fgcom device support on Mac - my preferred setup is FG sounds from my line out (which goes to speakers, including a sub, for nice rumble) and all fgcom through my USB headset. Unfortunately this doesn't work due to aforementioned OpenAL laziness on the part of Apple ... so I'm stuck with fgcom coming out of the main speakers, which is much header to discern above cockpit / engine noise just like RL I guess. Anyway, since fgcom is a separate process, this is not much to do with FG - except that ideally ATIS and other services would *also* be delivered via FGCom, which would clean up a whole bunch of things. James -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
James Turner wrote: On 2 Dec 2009, at 07:40, Erik Hofman wrote: Secondly, I think it would be beneficial to have the ability to specify a sound device for a certain group. So you could, for example, send aircraft sounds to your speakers, and radio sounds to a headset. Could be done with the current code but is low proirity for me. The only useful split I know of, is radio sounds separate to 'cockpit/exterior' sounds. That's actually why I was working on fgcom device support on Mac - my preferred setup is FG sounds from my line out (which goes to speakers, including a sub, for nice rumble) and all fgcom through my USB headset. Unfortunately this doesn't work due to aforementioned OpenAL laziness on the part of Apple ... so I'm stuck with fgcom coming out of the main speakers, which is much header to discern above cockpit / engine noise just like RL I guess. Anyway, since fgcom is a separate process, this is not much to do with FG - except that ideally ATIS and other services would *also* be delivered via FGCom, which would clean up a whole bunch of things. To go a bit into the technical details: It is already possible to create a second SoundMgr class and initialize it with a different device name. Now you have two different sound output devices to which you can assign SampleGroups to. Erik -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
First, we really need better control of sound levels and balancing between different sound sources. It is often impossible to hear ATIS over the aircraft sounds for example. Having one master volume control and volume properties on the radios is not enough. I think breaking it into different groups of sounds...aircraft, radios, etc...and having master controls for each would be a good solution. Not a bad idea. Good thing that is what I've implemented in the past months and which is in CVS now. So you've already implemented separate master sound controls for radios and aircraft and/or other groups already...such as would be configurable from the sound config dialog? My copy of CVS doesn't currently include the new sound system...so if so that's awesome..and just ignore me then. ;) Secondly, I think it would be beneficial to have the ability to specify a sound device for a certain group. So you could, for example, send aircraft sounds to your speakers, and radio sounds to a headset. Could be done with the current code but is low proirity for me. Understandable The only useful split I know of, is radio sounds separate to 'cockpit/exterior' sounds. Yes, currently only aircraft and radio sounds are logical groups, but it's also possible others could exist in the future. So it could be beneficial to have it setup so to be extended easily with more independently adjustable groups down the road I guess. That's actually why I was working on fgcom device support on Mac - my preferred setup is FG sounds from my line out (which goes to speakers, including a sub, for nice rumble) and all fgcom through my USB headset. Unfortunately this doesn't work due to aforementioned OpenAL laziness on the part of Apple ... so I'm stuck with fgcom coming out of the main speakers, which is much header to discern above cockpit / engine noise just like RL I guess. This is exactly my setup in linux already, flightgear outputs to my surround sound system, and fgcom outputs to my usb headset. I also have it configured so I can use fgcom with comm1 and comm2 simultaneously, comm1 to left channel, comm2 to right channel...selectable at run time which I transmit on. So if I could get flightgear to send radio sounds to my headset as well I'd be a very happy guy.. :) Anyway, since fgcom is a separate process, this is not much to do with FG - except that ideally ATIS and other services would *also* be delivered via FGCom, which would clean up a whole bunch of things. It would be neat if fgcom (or future replacement) implemented atis somehow. Yet not everyone uses fgcom so flightgear needs it's own atis still obviously, which might lead to strange results when I tune my radio to atis and flightgear AND fgcom start giving me weather info at the same time. :D To go a bit into the technical details: It is already possible to create a second SoundMgr class and initialize it with a different device name. Now you have two different sound output devices to which you can assign SampleGroups to. This sounds really good, so the code to make independant groups with different devices is therejust needs an interface configurable through gui to manage it. It would be awesome to have the sound config dialog show a master volume slider for each group, as well as a drop down to select a device for that group. If changing the devices at run time is problematic, command line options to set it at start up would be acceptable as well I guess. cheers! --Jacob -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: You really should use CVS.. Erik I do. :) Though I do so selectively as to keep it usable for me and to avoid conflicts with my personal modifications. So no, I'm not 100% inline with current cvs, including I haven't yet merged in the new sound system. The sound system, and some other changes, made flightgear mostly unusable previously, though looks like it's stabilizing a bit now so I should make a new migration soon. -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Jacob Burbach jmburb...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: You really should use CVS.. I do. :) Though I do so selectively as to keep it usable for me and to avoid conflicts with my personal modifications. So no, I'm not 100% inline with current cvs, including I haven't yet merged in the new sound system. Nah, you should be using git :) Then you could easily track the current development version while also having your own branch. -- Csaba/Jester -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Csaba Halász csaba.hal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Jacob Burbach jmburb...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: You really should use CVS.. I do. :) Though I do so selectively as to keep it usable for me and to avoid conflicts with my personal modifications. So no, I'm not 100% inline with current cvs, including I haven't yet merged in the new sound system. Nah, you should be using git :) Then you could easily track the current development version while also having your own branch. -- Csaba/Jester Yes, but that's only recently become an option with flightgear and I haven't felt bothered enough to move yet. ;) -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
Ok, so I went ahead and did a build of the latest and greatest...looks (and sounds) really good. I love when when features are implemented faster than I can ask for them! ;) A couple observations: 1. Cannot adjust volume of atis(comm radios) from sound config dialog. Not a major issue I guess since I can mostly tune it with increasing master and lowering effects/avionics. Can also adjust with the actual comm volume control of course, but not all aircraft have working radio controls. Having to monkey with the levels of all other volume controls to get comm volumes proper, and possibly having to make fine adjustments to comm volume from property manager does raise some usability issues though. Might be worth adding a comm radio control to the sound config dialog as well. 2. Adjusting the volume of the comm radios causes the atis to jump to a different position in her dialog...doh! Other than that everything seemed to be working pretty well(sound wise anyway)thanks for all your hard work! I know you said different devices per group are not a priority for you, but if you could work it onto your todo list for the future that would be great. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would find this extremely useful. cheers! --Jacob -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
Since the sound system is undergoing major development, I guess now would be a good time to mention some things that I think need addressing... First, we really need better control of sound levels and balancing between different sound sources. It is often impossible to hear ATIS over the aircraft sounds for example. Having one master volume control and volume properties on the radios is not enough. I think breaking it into different groups of sounds...aircraft, radios, etc...and having master controls for each would be a good solution. Secondly, I think it would be beneficial to have the ability to specify a sound device for a certain group. So you could, for example, send aircraft sounds to your speakers, and radio sounds to a headset. any thoughts? cheers! --Jacob -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound system improvements...levels, sources, balancing, and devices...
Jacob Burbach wrote: Since the sound system is undergoing major development, I guess now would be a good time to mention some things that I think need addressing... First, we really need better control of sound levels and balancing between different sound sources. It is often impossible to hear ATIS over the aircraft sounds for example. Having one master volume control and volume properties on the radios is not enough. I think breaking it into different groups of sounds...aircraft, radios, etc...and having master controls for each would be a good solution. Not a bad idea. Good thing that is what I've implemented in the past months and which is in CVS now. Secondly, I think it would be beneficial to have the ability to specify a sound device for a certain group. So you could, for example, send aircraft sounds to your speakers, and radio sounds to a headset. Could be done with the current code but is low proirity for me. Erik -- Join us December 9, 2009 for the Red Hat Virtual Experience, a free event focused on virtualization and cloud computing. Attend in-depth sessions from your desk. Your couch. Anywhere. http://p.sf.net/sfu/redhat-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
