Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
Hi, On Tuesday 24 March 2009 18:39:27 gerard robin wrote: Mathias sorry for the Noise , you won't have to learn to fly the F8 . No problem. May be I will try the f8 anyway. But to reliably reproduce a bug past a carrier approach is a hard thing to begin with ... :) Greetings Mathias -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
Hi, On Monday 23 March 2009 13:14:49 gerard robin wrote: When we start FG with a JSBSim aircraft on a moving carrier the groundcache is right, the Aircraft behaviour is right as long as we don't leave the deck. That nice groundcache feature definitively vanish when we leave the Carrier, even if we come back on it. We get the same error when taking off from an Airport , we get to land on Carrier, the groundcache on Carrier is not right. To conclude ONLY the first FG init of the groundcache ( on Carrier ) is right. It was not to oblige you to land on Carrier with a JSBSim Aircraft :) Mainly because there not any within CVS ( was the F8 which is now broken) Hmm, I have now tried with the default cessna. Due to the low approach speed this works well. Starting at the Nimitz and landing there. Applying brakes brings the cessna to rest wrt the carrier. So no problem. Resetting flightgear several times with the cessna on the carriers deck, applying brakes, works well. Starting at KSFO and landing on the carrier, applying brakes makes the cessna stick on the moving carrier. So again no problem. Can you confirm that the cessna works for you too? Does the F-8 Still not work? Really current cvs? Also simgear? You told about resetting the simulation? What are the exact conditions when that problem happens? May by I will need your F-8 and may be training hours to land on the carrier with that bird :) Greetings Mathias -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
On mardi 24 mars 2009, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Hi, On Monday 23 March 2009 13:14:49 gerard robin wrote: SNIP Hmm, I have now tried with the default cessna. Due to the low approach speed this works well. Starting at the Nimitz and landing there. Applying brakes brings the cessna to rest wrt the carrier. So no problem. Resetting flightgear several times with the cessna on the carriers deck, applying brakes, works well. Starting at KSFO and landing on the carrier, applying brakes makes the cessna stick on the moving carrier. So again no problem. Can you confirm that the cessna works for you too? Does the F-8 Still not work? Really current cvs? Also simgear? You told about resetting the simulation? What are the exact conditions when that problem happens? May by I will need your F-8 and may be training hours to land on the carrier with that bird :) Greetings Mathias You are right the Cessna is correct tested now, on the Eisenhower speed 10 knots. I have tried with Clemenceau and F8 both last version updated ( for some reason, ONLY available here http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/tux/index-en.html ) The result of that test seems right, too. I mainly noticed the problem with an other light turbine aircraft ( Fouga). However digging again into it ( the strange behaviour) , i suspect, now, that it could be coming from my gears definitions which introduce some random oscillations, only when i land ( again) on the Carrier. To conclude, forget the noise, at least, until i will have found i my side the origin of the problem. -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
On mardi 24 mars 2009, gerard robin wrote: On mardi 24 mars 2009, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Hi, On Monday 23 March 2009 13:14:49 gerard robin wrote: SNIP Hmm, I have now tried with the default cessna. Due to the low approach speed this works well. Starting at the Nimitz and landing there. Applying brakes brings the cessna to rest wrt the carrier. So no problem. Resetting flightgear several times with the cessna on the carriers deck, applying brakes, works well. Starting at KSFO and landing on the carrier, applying brakes makes the cessna stick on the moving carrier. So again no problem. Can you confirm that the cessna works for you too? Does the F-8 Still not work? Really current cvs? Also simgear? You told about resetting the simulation? What are the exact conditions when that problem happens? May by I will need your F-8 and may be training hours to land on the carrier with that bird :) Greetings Mathias You are right the Cessna is correct tested now, on the Eisenhower speed 10 knots. I have tried with Clemenceau and F8 both last version updated ( for some reason, ONLY available here http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/tux/index-en.html ) The result of that test seems right, too. I mainly noticed the problem with an other light turbine aircraft ( Fouga). However digging again into it ( the strange behaviour) , i suspect, now, that it could be coming from my gears definitions which introduce some random oscillations, only when i land ( again) on the Carrier. To conclude, forget the noise, at least, until i will have found i my side the origin of the problem. Well, well, I have found the error The problem was not groundcache related , it was gear parameter which did not suit to ( the tuning is very sensitive ) . in addition to it, i had an error with the terrain detection , then, the aircraft thought that it was in water with a huge drag. Mathias sorry for the Noise , you won't have to learn to fly the F8 . Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
Hi, On Sunday 22 March 2009 02:39:29 gerard robin wrote: With JSBsim aircraft i get now some strange behaviour regarding the groundcache on a moving Carrier. We can start from catapult on carrier, and the Aircraft is sitting correctly in place on the Ship , it follows correctly the speed of the carrier. = No problem :) After being catapulted and coming back to the carrier, with a nice landing on wires, on the deck, the aircraft does not follow the speed of the Carrier, even with Brake on we have some difficulties to stay in place. It seems that the aircraft do not identify the carrier like a moving object the second time. I did not noticed that problem before ... ( i don't know before when :( ) I can only say that my last FG CVS update is yesterday, the previous one was 10 days before. Hmm, I did not manage to land again with JSB. Currently no clue. But thinking and trying ... Greetings Mathias -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
On lundi 23 mars 2009, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Hi, On Sunday 22 March 2009 02:39:29 gerard robin wrote: With JSBsim aircraft i get now some strange behaviour regarding the groundcache on a moving Carrier. We can start from catapult on carrier, and the Aircraft is sitting correctly in place on the Ship , it follows correctly the speed of the carrier. = No problem :) After being catapulted and coming back to the carrier, with a nice landing on wires, on the deck, the aircraft does not follow the speed of the Carrier, even with Brake on we have some difficulties to stay in place. It seems that the aircraft do not identify the carrier like a moving object the second time. I did not noticed that problem before ... ( i don't know before when :( ) I can only say that my last FG CVS update is yesterday, the previous one was 10 days before. Hmm, I did not manage to land again with JSB. Currently no clue. But thinking and trying ... Greetings Mathias My purpose was to point that error: When we start FG with a JSBSim aircraft on a moving carrier the groundcache is right, the Aircraft behaviour is right as long as we don't leave the deck. That nice groundcache feature definitively vanish when we leave the Carrier, even if we come back on it. We get the same error when taking off from an Airport , we get to land on Carrier, the groundcache on Carrier is not right. To conclude ONLY the first FG init of the groundcache ( on Carrier ) is right. It was not to oblige you to land on Carrier with a JSBSim Aircraft :) Mainly because there not any within CVS ( was the F8 which is now broken) Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
..on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:14:49 +0100, Gerard wrote in message 200903231314.49784.ghma...@gmail.com: My purpose was to point that error: When we start FG with a JSBSim aircraft on a moving carrier the groundcache is right, the Aircraft behaviour is right as long as we don't leave the deck. That nice groundcache feature definitively vanish when we leave the Carrier, even if we come back on it. ..a question: Should the runway carriers even use the groundcache, to place the runway correctly? And not e.g. a runway cache that can move and even bend with its carrier? ..my understanding of the groundcache is, it is meant to tell when and which part of aircraft touches the ground how, where, during flights. ..over water, there's also tides and waves that should help make FG rule on my 405kt prop strikes, with shake or die verdicts. And, sea planes land too. We get the same error when taking off from an Airport , we get to land on Carrier, the groundcache on Carrier is not right. To conclude ONLY the first FG init of the groundcache ( on Carrier ) is right. It was not to oblige you to land on Carrier with a JSBSim Aircraft :) Mainly because there not any within CVS ( was the F8 which is now broken) Cheers -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
On lundi 23 mars 2009, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:14:49 +0100, Gerard wrote in message 200903231314.49784.ghma...@gmail.com: My purpose was to point that error: When we start FG with a JSBSim aircraft on a moving carrier the groundcache is right, the Aircraft behaviour is right as long as we don't leave the deck. That nice groundcache feature definitively vanish when we leave the Carrier, even if we come back on it. ..a question: Should the runway carriers even use the groundcache, to place the runway correctly? And not e.g. a runway cache that can move and even bend with its carrier? ..my understanding of the groundcache is, it is meant to tell when and which part of aircraft touches the ground how, where, during flights. ..over water, there's also tides and waves that should help make FG rule on my 405kt prop strikes, with shake or die verdicts. And, sea planes land too. We get the same error when taking off from an Airport , we get to land on Carrier, the groundcache on Carrier is not right. To conclude ONLY the first FG init of the groundcache ( on Carrier ) is right. It was not to oblige you to land on Carrier with a JSBSim Aircraft :) Mainly because there not any within CVS ( was the F8 which is now broken) Cheers I am not certain that i do understand the question. Mathias has introduce a feature which makes that any solid object , house on water, ship, carrier, floating bridge etc.. is now solid for any Aircraft, for instance that Snapshot which shows that i could land on a ship which was NOT defined to be a carrier, the ship was cruising at 25 knots http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Ouf.jpg However that snapshot is showing a YASim Aircraft FDM. To day, i am not sure, that would have been able to get the same result with a JSBsim aircraft ( for instance my Harrier GR7 ) . Then, now i am sure that won't be able to land, on a moving ship. Only possible with a static object. Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
Hi gerard, ..on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:54:02 +0100, you wrote in message 200903231554.03018.ghma...@gmail.com: On lundi 23 mars 2009, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:14:49 +0100, Gerard wrote in message 200903231314.49784.ghma...@gmail.com: My purpose was to point that error: When we start FG with a JSBSim aircraft on a moving carrier the groundcache is right, the Aircraft behaviour is right as long as we don't leave the deck. That nice groundcache feature definitively vanish when we leave the Carrier, even if we come back on it. ..a question: Should the runway carriers even use the groundcache, to place the runway correctly? And not e.g. a runway cache that can move and even bend with its carrier? ..my understanding of the groundcache is, it is meant to tell when and which part of aircraft touches the ground how, where, during flights. ..over water, there's also tides and waves that should help make FG rule on my 405kt prop strikes, with shake or die verdicts. And, sea planes land too. We get the same error when taking off from an Airport , we get to land on Carrier, the groundcache on Carrier is not right. To conclude ONLY the first FG init of the groundcache ( on Carrier ) is right. It was not to oblige you to land on Carrier with a JSBSim Aircraft :) Mainly because there not any within CVS ( was the F8 which is now broken) Cheers I am not certain that i do understand the question. Mathias has introduce a feature which makes that any solid object , house on water, ship, carrier, floating bridge etc.. is now solid for any Aircraft, for instance that Snapshot which shows that i could land on a ship which was NOT defined to be a carrier, the ship was cruising at 25 knots http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Ouf.jpg However that snapshot is showing a YASim Aircraft FDM. To day, i am not sure, that would have been able to get the same result with a JSBsim aircraft ( for instance my Harrier GR7 ) . Then, now i am sure that won't be able to land, on a moving ship. Only possible with a static object. Cheers -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
Hi, ..sorry guys, I hit the wrong button: ..on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:54:02 +0100, Gerard wrote in message 200903231554.03018.ghma...@gmail.com: On lundi 23 mars 2009, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:14:49 +0100, Gerard wrote in message 200903231314.49784.ghma...@gmail.com: My purpose was to point that error: When we start FG with a JSBSim aircraft on a moving carrier the groundcache is right, the Aircraft behaviour is right as long as we don't leave the deck. That nice groundcache feature definitively vanish when we leave the Carrier, even if we come back on it. ..a question: Should the runway carriers even use the groundcache, to place the runway correctly? And not e.g. a runway cache that can move and even bend with its carrier? ..my understanding of the groundcache is, it is meant to tell when and which part of aircraft touches the ground how, where, during flights. ..over water, there's also tides and waves that should help make FG rule on my 405kt prop strikes, with shake or die verdicts. And, sea planes land too. We get the same error when taking off from an Airport , we get to land on Carrier, the groundcache on Carrier is not right. To conclude ONLY the first FG init of the groundcache ( on Carrier ) is right. It was not to oblige you to land on Carrier with a JSBSim Aircraft :) Mainly because there not any within CVS ( was the F8 which is now broken) Cheers I am not certain that i do understand the question. ..I am (quite possibly cluelessly) suggesting runways or landing surfaces should use something _other_ than groundcache, a runway cache or relevant landing surface caches to support the runways that move or bend, that would support carriers, ship borne helipads, truck borne 20' freight container tops, water waves, and maybe KSFO etc earthquakes too. Mathias has introduce a feature which makes that any solid object , .._when_??? (Helps me find pointers to try find out what he did when he did that feature.) house on water, ship, carrier, floating bridge etc.. is now solid for any Aircraft, for instance that Snapshot which shows that i could land on a ship which was NOT defined to be a carrier, the ship was cruising at 25 knots http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Ouf.jpg ..ok, that shows your chopper finding something to land on. ..and, you did it on March 2'nd, at 01:43:06: a...@a45:/tmp $ ll --full-time Ouf.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 arnt arnt 79670 2009-03-02 01:43:06.0 +0100 Ouf.jpg ..does this still work for you??? (same chopper and same ship etc) However that snapshot is showing a YASim Aircraft FDM. To day, i am not sure, that would have been able to get the same result with a JSBsim aircraft ( for instance my Harrier GR7 ) . Then, now i am sure that won't be able to land, on a moving ship. Only possible with a static object. ..if you cheat to put your chopper on the ship, will it stay there as the ship moves??? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier landing and groundcache with JSBSim Aircrafts
On lundi 23 mars 2009, Arnt Karlsen wrote: Hi, ..sorry guys, I hit the wrong button: ..on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:54:02 +0100, Gerard wrote in message 200903231554.03018.ghma...@gmail.com: On lundi 23 mars 2009, Arnt Karlsen wrote: SNIP ..I am (quite possibly cluelessly) suggesting runways or landing surfaces should use something _other_ than groundcache, a runway cache or relevant landing surface caches to support the runways that move or bend, that would support carriers, ship borne helipads, truck borne 20' freight container tops, water waves, and maybe KSFO etc earthquakes too. Don't forget, you could land on any ground field , it is not necessary to have a runway, though with a B747 that would be better :) Mathias has introduce a feature which makes that any solid object , .._when_??? (Helps me find pointers to try find out what he did when he did that feature.) Look at the CVS log ( flightgear and simgear) done from the beginning of March by Mathias, mainly the groundcache. house on water, ship, carrier, floating bridge etc.. is now solid for any Aircraft, for instance that Snapshot which shows that i could land on a ship which was NOT defined to be a carrier, the ship was cruising at 25 knots http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Ouf.jpg ..ok, that shows your chopper finding something to land on. ..and, you did it on March 2'nd, at 01:43:06: a...@a45:/tmp $ ll --full-time Ouf.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 arnt arnt 79670 2009-03-02 01:43:06.0 +0100 Ouf.jpg ..does this still work for you??? (same chopper and same ship etc) Yes, it does longer work, mainly with the YASim FDM aircraft , and under some specific conditions with JSBSim However that snapshot is showing a YASim Aircraft FDM. To day, i am not sure, that would have been able to get the same result with a JSBsim aircraft ( for instance my Harrier GR7 ) . Then, now i am sure that won't be able to land, on a moving ship. Only possible with a static object. ..if you cheat to put your chopper on the ship, will it stay there as the ship moves??? YES it does , the snapshot is the whitness of a bad landing done by a bad pilot , since the helo is not in the circle area. It is not the whitness of a sliding aircraft close to fall in the water, it is there where it landed , following the ship moving. Cheers BTW: that recent update has now a funny consequence, we can land on the wakes of the ship, since the wake is a solid object. -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
