Re: [foldingboats] Folding Kayak--Progress Report
Hey guys, sorry for not having replied sooner, but I just found the reply all button recently (3 minutes ago :-)). And of course thanks for the great answers I got on my first posting on the pouchboats forum. As some of you might remember, I planned to make a north alaska retreival kayak, similar to Peter Copellas boat. I remember that I have seen tube bendinb devices at my local hardwear store, so I'll try to bend the frames out of aluminium túbing. They will be connected to the stringers by ordinary cable binders. (the tubes are allready ordered!) For the hull material I found polyurethane coated polyester (It was dead cheap, so Ididn' t look any further for a nylon fabric). Of course the coating is way too thin to be durable enough. I don't think that it' ll be able to withstand the abuse a boat gets. So here ' s my question: Does anybody have a cheap idea how to waterproof the fabric (one side is still uncoated)? I thought about a thinned 100%silicone sealer for windows? Any comments? Thank you very much in advance. Christian -- Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net # Foldingboats Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Foldingboats or Foldingboats archives without author's permission Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscriptions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #
Re: [foldingboats] Folding Kayak--Progress Report
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... For the hull material I found polyurethane coated polyester (It was dead cheap, so Ididn' t look any further for a nylon fabric). Of course the coating is way too thin to be durable enough. I don't think that it' ll be able to withstand the abuse a boat gets... So here ' s my question: Does anybody have a cheap idea how to waterproof the fabric (one side is still uncoated)? I thought about a thinned 100%silicone sealer for windows? I suspect thinned silicone caulk would be *very* expensive and wouldn't necessarily adhere too well to the polyurethane coated fabric. That, and finding a suitable thinner would be difficult. I suggest a polyurethane. Industrial supply houses generally have one-part flexible polyurethane coatings sold as non-slip floor coatings. They're tough, stick to themselves and should hopefully stick to your cloth. --- Michael Edelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.foldingkayaks.org (nomadics) http://www.findascope.com (choosing a telescope) # Foldingboats Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Foldingboats or Foldingboats archives without author's permission Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscriptions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #
Re: [foldingboats] Folding Kayak--Progress Report
Hi,Lew! Thanks for the comprehensive description. I believe that I can visualize most of what you describe except how the skin will be tensioned longitudinally ... but I'll re-read that section a couple of times before I send more questions. I can't wait to see pictures of the various stages though. Do you have access to a digital camera or a scanner? Also, are you drawing any of this? I think you have succeeded in devising a set of solutions that are quite out of the ordinary! I know that going this untried path is not everyone's cup of tea and that it will at times be trying to complete the project (one boat took me four years of building and thinking on and off), but please keep us closely updated. I suspect that the mere process of explaining to others what you are doing will stand you in good stead!! Best regards, Ralph # Foldingboats Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Foldingboats or Foldingboats archives without author's permission Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscriptions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #
Re: [foldingboats] Folding Kayak--Progress Report
So here ' s my question: Does anybody have a cheap idea how to waterproof the fabric (one side is still uncoated)? I thought about a thinned 100%silicone sealer for windows? Hans-Juergen Staude used thinned silicone for a couple of years to waterproof spraydeck and deck of his boats. To make the silicone liquide, he used ordinary dish wash solution which seemed to work (it contains a special chemical which name I have long forgotten). If you take this approach, make sure to get marine silicone instead of "ordinary silicone" for windows etc. Hans-Juergen discovered Granger's Mesowax (a liquid wax for old and porous canvas) and stopped using silicone some time ago. You should do some extensive testing with silicone and your fabric (and I'd rather go for Michael's solution). Hans-Juergen reported a terrible mess each time he waterproofed the decks. Happy Yule / winter solstice anyone, Marian Marian Gunkel Rostock, Germany http://www.mariangunkel.de # Foldingboats Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Foldingboats or Foldingboats archives without author's permission Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscriptions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #
Re: [foldingboats] Folding Kayak--Progress Report
Ralph sez: .. I suggest a polyurethane. Industrial supply houses generally have one-part flexible polyurethane coatings sold as non-slip floor coatings. They're tough, stick to themselves and should hopefully stick to your cloth. ... Hi, Mike! Do you have any practical experience with this stuff? Will it be and remain flexible enough for a folding skin? This definitely sounds like something worth testing asap!!! Do you have any brand names to hand? I've used it... but only on floors ;-) I think it would be worth a try, since it does stay flexible and it's incredibly tough. Don't have any brand names offhand; I think I may have a Granger catalog in the office, though. (Why a computer process manager has a Granger industrial catalog in his office is yet another story ;-) best, -- mike # Foldingboats Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Foldingboats or Foldingboats archives without author's permission Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscriptions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #
Re: [foldingboats] Folding Kayak--Progress Report
I bought a sheet of 6mm plywood from CLC. The frame, when complete, will resemble a traditional Greenland style frame. The gunwales will look like an I-beam with the plwood serving as the core and yellow cedar strips at the corners (except for the top inside edge which will have a beefier strip of ash to support the deck beams). The frame will be assembled in two halves (each half consisting of six gunwale segments). Once the gunwales are assembled and the deck beams installed, the ribs (steamed y. cedar or ash) will be inserted into mortised areas of the gunwales, followed by the installation of the two chines and the keelson. The two halves will be inserted into the skin and longitudinal tension will be placed on the frame so that the last two gunwales pieces may be installed. From there, if lateral tension is required, I'll install low volume sponsons. I like the idea Pouch uses on it stern seam. I think I'll try to pursue that idea instead of the zipper. Lew Crenshaw --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lew Crenshaw: I'd like to report that I've made no progress on my winter project. Ralph Hoehn: I have not even finished my summer project (it's called an addition to the house ... and will still be there next summer)! LC: ... pilgrimage to Chesapeake Light Craft to purchase a sheet of Okume ... RH: For the frames? What thickness? How many layers? LC: ... rear windowless, rusted-out, beat-up e.80's Ford F-150 (I always travel in style). RH: May I suggest you find yourself "The Thousand Dollar Yacht"? I think I got it from the local library one time. I'm sure that an internet search will get you the author and availability. I believe that they towed said yacht behind a clapped out Volvo at one point, talking of style. LC: Anyways, I have begun drawing lines onto the plywood and will purchase the hardware after my post-Christmas economic recovery. RH: Did you mention in a previous post what design you are using (and I missed it)? LC: ... I plan on inserting the frame into the skin by means of a large access hole ... RH: Nautiraid does indeed use a zipper, but it's a regular (albeit heavy duty) one. A flap held in place with hook-and-loop tape covers it. Not waterproof. Pouch went back to a solution found on a folding sailing dinghy about forty years ago: The aft deck is split down the middle all the way into the cockpit. The two edges are reinforced with (flexible) piping (about 1/4 inch in diameter). They end up cheek-to-cheek inside a slit aluminium tube, which you thread over them from the stern. Once you inflate the sponsons, the skin receives lateral tension, which presses the piping together and also seals the deck material along the edge of the tube. That is water tight. Zippers are not designed to withstand lateral tension. Pouch feels that they may actually fail over time. Dry-suit type zippers are very expensive (especially if you need them the length of an entire aft deck!). Personally I would mistrust zippers deeply in this application (but perhaps that's influenced by the fact that I always had trouble replacing them in trousers?) Peter Chopelas inserts pieces of his frame into the skin through a roll-top hatch at the stern of the boat. If one made that large enough to accomodate the largest circumference on the finished frame, that might be an option. One would have to use straps to ensure lateral tension of the skin in way of the hatch though before closing it. How are you planning to provide both longitudinal and lateral tension for the skin? Best regards, Ralph # Foldingboats Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Foldingboats or Foldingboats archives without author's permission Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscriptions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] # __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ # Foldingboats Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Foldingboats or Foldingboats archives without author's permission Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscriptions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] #
