On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it.
For example, take a look at Alex Warth's Worlds work (and paper) and see
how that might be
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:23 PM, John Zabroski johnzabro...@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it.
For example,
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:43 PM, karl ramberg karlramb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:23 PM, John Zabroski johnzabro...@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:57 PM, John Zabroski johnzabro...@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:43 PM, karl ramberg karlramb...@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:23 PM, John Zabroski
johnzabro...@gmail.comwrote:
Much interesting
Thanks
Karl
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at
Still, databases and file systems are both based on concepts that
predate electronic computers.
When Windows and Macs came along the document metaphor became
prevalent, but in practice this was always just a user friendly name
for a file. The layers and layers of slightly broken metaphors never
On 6/22/2011 5:08 PM, Steve Wart wrote:
Still, databases and file systems are both based on concepts that
predate electronic computers.
When Windows and Macs came along the document metaphor became
prevalent, but in practice this was always just a user friendly name
for a file. The layers and
On 23/06/2011, at 10:08 AM, Steve Wart wrote:
So how can you make simple languages simple to use? Developers have
been rejecting complex GUIs in favour of plain text. If Google and
Apple are right, every program component isn't a file on a disk, but
rather some network accessible resource.
The emergence of ubiquitous internet media and the distribution architecture
we've built around it has shifted attention to the communication needs of
people. Many are employed in the Web industry and others unemployed...
market forces come into play. It's all possible because of established (and
On 23/06/2011, at 12:35 PM, Max OrHai wrote:
People who want a small language should be prepared to be somewhat
idiosyncratic, if they want to express big or complex programs. I mean
'language' here not just in terms of a programming language definition but
rather to mean all constructs
I wish that emacs / vi, GBD, and the Unix shell had anything close to the
n00b mode provided by Squeak in terms of inline documentation, tool tips,
menus etc.. But, yeah, Squeak has serious problems, and you're absolutely
right that it's too hard to tinker with the core of it, just like every
On 6/20/2011 9:19 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
Hi... (see below)...
On 21/06/2011, at 3:42 AM, BGB wrote:
On 6/20/2011 3:22 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or
There are certainly practical differences between conventional relational
databases and hierarchical filesystems, without having to get into
implementation details. I'm sure at least a few people on this list are
familiar with the BeOS filesystem, which acted much more like a relational
DBMS than
Also of interest might be GemStone/S, an ODBMS that is still heavily
used in at least two large Investment Banks (JP Morgan and UBS), as
well as several large shipping companies (OOCL, Coscon, and NYK).
Marketing blurb here
http://seaside.gemstone.com/docs/OOCL_SuccessStory.pdf
Basically it's an
On 6/19/2011 9:49 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 2:33 PM, BGB wrote:
in a sense, the metaphor no longer works, and should likely itself be left to
fall into the recycle-bin of history. worse yet is having to read stuff written
by people who actually take this metaphor
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
interestingly, I don't believe in getting rid of the file-system, per-se, as
technically it works fairly well and is a proven piece of technology.
Interestingly, I disagree entirely. Finding things is a pain for most people
(including myself).
Julian.
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
For example, when web programming on a specific web app, I use a web
browser, a text editor, a database management program, a command line, and a
couple other tools. It'd be nice to be able to fit these tools together
into a pseudo-app and then build
On 6/19/2011 11:54 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
interestingly, I don't believe in getting rid of the file-system, per-se, as
technically it works fairly well and is a proven piece of technology.
Interestingly, I disagree entirely. Finding things is a pain
On 2011-06-19 Sun, at 09:33 PM, BGB wrote:
.. which mappings are more natural and under which circumstances seems to be
the important question and one, AFAICS, that may not well answered by simply
replacing words with ideograms and expressions with boxes and arrows.
agreed... I really
On 6/19/2011 11:58 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote:
For example, when web programming on a specific web app, I use a web browser, a text editor, a database
management program, a command line, and a couple other tools. It'd be nice to be able to fit these
tools
On 6/20/2011 2:19 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 6:33 PM, BGB wrote:
I am not certain I follow how this would get rid of file-systems though...
I am not aware of any good alternative to the filesystem which is generally
better than the filesystem (can effectively manage huge
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or such...
I'd like to know if you think there's a difference between a filesystem and a
database... conceptually...
or such...
On 6/20/2011 3:22 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or such...
I'd like to know if you think there's a difference between a filesystem and a
database...
Hi... (see below)...
On 21/06/2011, at 3:42 AM, BGB wrote:
On 6/20/2011 3:22 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote:
hmm... S-Expression database?...
sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store.
or such...
I'd like to know if you think
On 2011-06-14 Tue, at 09:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as
equal is that we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so
much of them in terms of linguistic and cognitive development... and actually
the
On 20/06/2011, at 12:20 PM, Steve Dekorte wrote:
From this perspective we could see the history of programming as one of
finding ever more natural mappings between how our minds work and how we can
get machines to do what we want - just as steering wheel and floor pedals map
between our
On 6/19/2011 7:20 PM, Steve Dekorte wrote:
On 2011-06-14 Tue, at 09:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as equal is that
we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so much of them in terms of linguistic
and
On 20/06/2011, at 2:33 PM, BGB wrote:
in a sense, the metaphor no longer works, and should likely itself be left to
fall into the recycle-bin of history. worse yet is having to read stuff
written by people who actually take this metaphor seriously.
Given the historical perspective, it was
On 6/14/2011 9:50 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:
On 2011-06-14, at 9:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as equal is that
we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so much of them in terms of linguistic
and cognitive
but, yeah... being young, time seems to go by very slowly, and just sitting
around fiddling with something, one accomplishes a lot of stuff in a
relatively short period of time.
as one gets older though, time goes by ever faster, and one can observe
that less and less happens in a given
On 2011-06-15, at 3:42 PM, Dale Schumacher wrote:
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Dethe Elza de...@livingcode.org wrote:
In fact, I'm interested enough in the block structure visualization that
I've been porting just the blocks, without the Scratch semantics and
runtime, to the web. You
I like it. My son is very keen on Scratch (although he prefers Lua
these days), but we picked up an Arduino kit last month, and I'm
looking forward to playing with that.
His eyes kind of glazed over looking at the C code, as simple as it is
for Arduino. I got the impression he was just happy to
On Monday 13 Jun 2011 8:47:49 PM Alan Kay wrote:
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it.
The picture I had in mind was a interconnection of systems that grow in an
interdependent way by absorbing
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Dethe Elza de...@livingcode.org wrote:
Glad you like it. How old is your son? Maybe we should organize a Vancouver
Geek Kids, or meet up at
Maker Faire next week. Or there is this: http://www.tedxkidsbc.com/
TEDx kids looks wonderful - thanks for that link.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote:
... also, the idea of modelling change ITSELF is an appealing one in this
context, and all changes including data entry etc being simply represented
as a log of mutations using the command pattern. Thus the data
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:02 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
but, what would be the gain?... the major issue with most possible graphical
representations, is that they are far less compact. hence, the common use of
graphical presentations to represent a small amount in information in a
By parsing limits I mean the fact that the language grammar usually
has to be more verbose than is required by a human to resolve
ambiguity and other issues. This is mainly a problem if you start
thinking of how to mix languages. To integrates say Java, SQL and
regular expressions in one
I had some thoughts about how to approach the issue. I was thinking that
you could represent the language in a more semanticaly rich form such as a
RAG stored in a graph database. Then languages would be composed by
declaring lenses between them.
As long as there is a lens to a editor dsl
Thanks for the pointer. I'll have a look.
BR,
John
Sent from my phone
Den 14 jun 2011 17:17 skrev Tristan Slominski tristan.slomin...@gmail.com
:
I had some thoughts about how to approach the issue. I was thinking that
you could represent the language in a more semanticaly rich form such as
a
On 15/06/2011, at 1:14 AM, Tristan Slominski wrote:
Just for completeness, the lenses you describe here remind me of OMeta's
foreign rule invocation:
Yeah, I think there is a fair amount of deep digestion required to fully grok
these ideas, personally. Haha that sounds disturbing. :)
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Tristan Slominski
tristan.slomin...@gmail.com wrote:
Just for completeness, the lenses you describe here remind me of OMeta's
foreign rule invocation:
from http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2008003_experimenting.pdf
see 2.3.4 Foreign Rule Invocation p. 27 of paper, p.
Hi,
John Nilsson j...@milsson.nu writes:
So my fix is to make the separation a hidden thing, which means the
program needs to be represented in something that allows such hidden
things (and I don't think Unicode control characters is the way to go
here).
Why not crib a hack from JavaDoc and
On 6/13/2011 8:09 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 14/06/2011, at 7:33 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote:
Kids may not have the linguistic development out of the way that one needs to do
serious programming. Adults who don't already code may find themselves short
on some of the core concepts that
On 2011-06-14, at 12:33 PM, BGB wrote:
much younger, and it is doubtful people can do much of anything useful.
can you teach programming to a kindergartner?...
maybe not such a good idea, so, it is an issue for what a good lower-limit is
for where to try.
My kids learned to program around
On both questions the answer is basically that Java was an example. I was
looking for a general solution. Something that would work withoug prior
assumptions about the languages involved.
The problem I was thinking about was how to provide an infrastructure where
in anyone could be a language
I wonder if a thousand years ago the readers of the world thought that only
certain people had an aptitude for reading.
=
As a professional coder and father of young children I find Dethe's anecdote
of teaching his children to code/program at an early age has me thinking I
need to take
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 01:04:20PM -0700, BGB wrote:
On 6/14/2011 12:14 PM, Michael FIG wrote:
Hi,
John Nilssonj...@milsson.nu writes:
So my fix is to make the separation a hidden thing, which means the
program needs to be represented in something that allows such hidden
things (and I
Let say I want this then:
public int totalAmmount()
{
return SELECT SUM(ammount) FROM Invoices WHERE invoiceNo =
Invoice.currentId();
}
That is now there is Java nested inside the SQL. When I ask the IDE to
list all references to Invoice.currentId(), this instance should also
be included.
On 6/14/2011 4:24 PM, John Nilsson wrote:
Yes. And now add to that semantic editing support for such extensions
automatically inherited. Things like syntax highlighting,
intellisense, find references. Also interoperabilty with libs/modules
in other languages is important.
BR,
John
On 15/06/2011, at 9:00 AM, Kevin Driedger wrote:
I wonder if a thousand years ago the readers of the world thought that only
certain people had an aptitude for reading.
=
As a professional coder and father of young children I find Dethe's anecdote
of teaching his children to
On 2011-06-14, at 9:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote:
The thing that irritates me about this attitude of don't consider kids as
equal is that we DO consider them as equal in other frames... we expect so
much of them in terms of linguistic and cognitive development... and actually
the
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
dynamic reload could be a good enough compromise IMO, if done well...
I don't follow this train of thought. Everything runs in an image. That's to
say, the source code directly relates to
On 6/13/2011 1:33 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
dynamic reload could be a good enough compromise IMO, if done well...
I don't follow this train of thought. Everything runs in an image. That's to
On 13/06/2011, at 7:50 PM, BGB wrote:
On 6/13/2011 1:33 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
dynamic reload could be a good enough compromise IMO, if done well...
I don't follow this train of
Am 13.06.2011 11:50, schrieb BGB:
an image based system, OTOH, often means having to drag around the image
instead, which may include a bunch of other
stuff beyond just the raw text of the program, and may couple the program
and the particular development environment
used to create it.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:50 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
however, unlike full image-based development, the app will generally
forget everything that was going on once it is exited and restarted.
I think this is one of the most annoying features of our current
computer systems. If I have
On Monday 13 Jun 2011 2:03:29 PM Julian Leviston wrote:
I think the main issue with smalltalk-like image systems is that the
system doesn't as easily let you start from blank like text-file
source-code style coding does... thats to say, yes, it's possible to start
new worlds, but it's not very
On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it.
Hi Alan,
You might need to elucidate a little more on this for me to personally
understand you. Not sure how others
On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it.
Hi Alan,
You might need to elucidate a little more on this
Amplification: if I wagered a guess, I'd go with of human reach or of
potential leverage.
I also have one amp that goes up to 11, which is really nice because sometimes
I like a touch of extra kick for the solo.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote:
On
On 14/06/2011, at 4:07 AM, Josh Gargus wrote:
On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to
have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it.
Hi Alan,
I wrote this without reading the very latest
http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011001_final_worlds.pdf so if I say anything that is
obviously missing that understanding, please bear with me :) I'll read it
shortly.
Julian.
On 14/06/2011, at 5:26 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 14/06/2011, at 4:07
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.netwrote:
I wrote this without reading the very latest
http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011001_final_worlds.pdf so if I say anything
that is obviously missing that understanding, please bear with me :) I'll
read it shortly.
I got
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Casey Ransberger
casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote:
Comments below.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 6:00 AM, Dale Schumacher dale.schumac...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:50 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
however, unlike full image-based development, the app
On 6/13/2011 3:19 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 13/06/2011, at 7:50 PM, BGB wrote:
On 6/13/2011 1:33 AM, Julian Leviston wrote:
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote:
image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though...
dynamic reload could be a good enough compromise IMO, if
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:02 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and
represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod).
Syntax errors don't really crop up any more, do they? Given a slightly nicer
User Interface
Below.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 2:16 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:02 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and
represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod).
Syntax
On 14/06/2011, at 6:02 AM, BGB wrote:
but, what would be the gain?... the major issue with most possible graphical
representations, is that they are far less compact. hence, the common use of
graphical presentations to represent a small amount in information in a
compelling way (say, a
On 14/06/2011, at 7:33 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote:
Kids may not have the linguistic development out of the way that one needs to
do serious programming. Adults who don't already code may find themselves
short on some of the core concepts that conventional programming languages
expect of
On 14/06/2011, at 7:16 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and
represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod).
Syntax errors don't really crop up any more, do they? Given a slightly nicer
User Interface than
At Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:55:54 +0200,
karl ramberg wrote:
I got wondering about commit failure and cases where you needed certain
objects in the world child anyway.
Or two different worlds merging. Will that be possible ?
Yes. You catch an exception to keep the computation going:
a :=
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote:
I think Tiles prevent syntax errors is a red herring. Sure, you can
prevent stupid typos by offering only tiles with correctly spelled
keywords, but that's not really a major problem in ordinary
experience. The more
On 14/06/2011, at 1:50 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
When you're about to type the next tile, you're given options... anything
outside of those options is impossible, so the computer doesn't put it in,
because syntactically it wouldn't make sense.
There's nothing specific to tiles in what
On 6/13/2011 8:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
At Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:16:10 -0400,
C. Scott Ananian wrote:
given that most non-Chinese can't read Chinese writing, despite that many of
these characters do actually resemble crude line-art drawings of various
things and ideas.
It is a common
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 1:40 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
The responsiveness of exploratory programming environments (such as the
Smalltalk programming environment) allows the programmer to concentrate on
the task at hand rather than being distracted by long pauses caused by
compilation or
On 6/11/2011 6:30 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 1:40 AM, BGBcr88...@gmail.com wrote:
The responsiveness of exploratory programming environments (such as the
Smalltalk programming environment) allows the programmer to concentrate on
the task at hand rather than being
On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:38 PM, Casey Ransberger wrote:
On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Josh Gargus j...@schwa.ca wrote:
Conceptually, yes. In practice, no, because the HTML/DOM render-target is
also the lingua franca that makes the Web searchable and mashupable.
So I'd like to first
On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 11:42 -0700, BGB wrote:
interesting...
less painfully slow than I would have expected from the description...
I wasn't thinking exactly like run an emulator, run OS in emulator,
but more like, a browser plugin which looked and acted similar to a
small Unix (with
On Jun 9, 2011, at 5:58 AM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote:
On 09/06/2011, at 7:04 PM, BGB wrote:
actually, possibly a relevant question here, would be why Java applets
largely fell on their face, but Flash largely took off (in all its uses from
YouTube to Punch The Monkey...).
On 6/10/2011 7:33 AM, Chris Warburton wrote:
On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 11:42 -0700, BGB wrote:
interesting...
less painfully slow than I would have expected from the description...
I wasn't thinking exactly like run an emulator, run OS in emulator,
but more like, a browser plugin which looked and
On 6/10/2011 10:24 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
On Jun 9, 2011, at 5:58 AM, Julian Levistonjul...@leviston.net wrote:
On 09/06/2011, at 7:04 PM, BGB wrote:
actually, possibly a relevant question here, would be why Java applets largely fell on
their face, but Flash largely took off (in all its
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 2:45 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
just had an idle thought of a JVM starting up as a prebuilt image (say,
methods are pre-JIT'ed and pre-linked, static fields are pre-initialized,
...).
unless of course, they already started doing this (sadly, I am not much an
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:09 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:
snip ...
there is not a whole lot that seems in common between a browser and an OS.
yes, there is Chrome OS, but I sort of suspect this will (probably) fall on
its face (vs... say... installing real Linux on the netbooks...).
Hahaha, this is it exactly!
Perpendicular, but a poignant friend/mentor of mine said real software
engineering hasn't emerged because there aren't enough people dying yet.
He said that after I made my bid on what the difference is. My angle was: the
difference between software and engineering
(sorry, I don't know if this belongs on-list or not...).
On 6/10/2011 1:44 PM, Max OrHai wrote:
Well, INTP here, so at least we have /some/ common ground.
yeah... I think I generally get along well enough with most people, in
general...
well, except Q's, which are basically people who
fonc@vpri.org
Sent: Tue, May 31, 2011 7:16:20 AM
Subject: Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?
Thanks Merik,
I've read/watch the OOPSLA'97 keynote before, but hadn't seen the first
video.
I'm having problems with the first one(the talk at UIUC). Has anyone been
able to watch
On 6/9/2011 12:56 AM, Josh Gargus wrote:
On May 31, 2011, at 7:30 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
Hi Cornelius
There are lots of egregiously wrong things in the web design. Perhaps
one of the simplest is that the browser folks have lacked the
perspective to see that the browser is not like an
On 09/06/2011, at 5:56 PM, Josh Gargus wrote:
However, can we do better than that? I guess the answer depends on which
aspect of the status quo we're trying to improve on (searchability, mashups,
etc). For search, there must be plenty of technologies that can improve on
HTML by
On 09/06/2011, at 7:04 PM, BGB wrote:
actually, possibly a relevant question here, would be why Java applets
largely fell on their face, but Flash largely took off (in all its uses from
YouTube to Punch The Monkey...).
My own opinion of this is the same reason that the iPad feels faster
Cheers,
Alan
--
*From:* Cornelius Toole cornelius.to...@gmail.com
*To:* Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org
*Sent:* Tue, May 31, 2011 7:16:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?
Thanks Merik,
I've read/watch the OOPSLA'97 keynote
On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:04 AM, BGB wrote:
On 6/9/2011 12:56 AM, Josh Gargus wrote:
On May 31, 2011, at 7:30 AM, Alan Kay wrote:
Hi Cornelius
There are lots of egregiously wrong things in the web design. Perhaps one
of the simplest is that the browser folks have lacked the perspective
How about _recursive_ VM/JITs *beneath* the level that HTML/JS is implemented.
So the browser that ships only supports this recursive VM.
HTML is an application of this that can be evolved by open source at
internet scale / time. Web pages can point at a specific HTML
implementation or a general
] Alternative Web programming models?
Thanks Merik,
I've read/watch the OOPSLA'97 keynote before, but hadn't seen the first
video.
I'm having problems with the first one(the talk at UIUC). Has anyone been
able to watch past the first hour. I get up to the point where Alex speaks
That all sounds very cool.
However, I don't think that it's feasible to try to ship something like this as
standard in all browsers, if only for political reasons. It would be
impossible to get Mozilla, Google, Apple, and Microsoft to agree on it.
That's what's cool about NaCl. It's minimal
On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:42 AM, BGB wrote:
OSes on top of this hypervisor.
If it tickles you fancy, then by all means use it to run a sand-boxed Unix.
Undoubtedly someone will; witness the cool hack to run Linux in the browser,
accomplished by writing an x86 emulator in Javascript
On Jun 9, 2011, at 12:06 PM, BGB wrote:
On 6/9/2011 11:10 AM, Josh Gargus wrote:
That all sounds very cool.
However, I don't think that it's feasible to try to ship something like this
as standard in all browsers, if only for political reasons. It would be
impossible to get Mozilla,
On 6/9/2011 12:20 PM, Josh Gargus wrote:
On Jun 9, 2011, at 12:06 PM, BGB wrote:
On 6/9/2011 11:10 AM, Josh Gargus wrote:
That all sounds very cool.
However, I don't think that it's feasible to try to ship something like this as
standard in all browsers, if only for political reasons. It
Cheers,
Alan
--
*From:* Cornelius Toole cornelius.to...@gmail.com
*To:* Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org
*Sent:* Tue, May 31, 2011 7:16:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?
Thanks Merik,
I've read/watch the OOPSLA'97
On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Josh Gargus j...@schwa.ca wrote:
Conceptually, yes. In practice, no, because the HTML/DOM render-target is
also the lingua franca that makes the Web searchable and mashupable.
So I'd like to first point out that you're making a great point here, so I hope
it
You know this isn't usable with the browser I have handy at the moment, but I
can already see it. Really interesting, I can imagine it would look more or
less like this. Thanks for putting me onto this, Ian.
On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Ian Piumarta piuma...@speakeasy.net wrote:
On Jun 9,
: Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 12:58 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
[...]
The web is not *only* an OS. It also provides the backing data for a
very large unstructured database. Google of course realize this, as
their company rests
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