Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-07-03 Thread GrrrWaaa
In computational terms, I see Bergsonism as a philosophy that fully embraces the unpredictability of interaction and the accumulated histories of side-effects. Bergson has often been dismissed as a 'vitalist' positing an alternative substance driving life, but this is quite wrong. He was

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-30 Thread Chris Warburton
On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 11:40 -0700, Alan Kay wrote: Hi Chris I think looking at the way biology works is a good perspective. By the way, we recycle not just the 10 trillion cells that contain our DNA (and the 90 Trillion cells we have with microbial DNA/RNA), but all our *atoms* are

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-30 Thread David Barbour
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Chris Warburton chriswa...@googlemail.comwrote: On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 11:40 -0700, Alan Kay wrote: The only human artifact that is remotely like this is the Internet, which has been able to grow and replace most parts large and small without having to ever

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-30 Thread Max OrHai
Thanks for the link! RDP looks quite interesting, and I'm looking forward to further developments. Some of the space-time leakage problems of the early FRP models have been addressed with Nillson and Hudak's Arrows-based Yampa system; could you use any of this in your Haskell RDP implementation?

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Chris Warburton
On Sat, 2011-06-25 at 09:39 -0700, Steve Wart wrote: I've been thinking about eternal computing not so much in the context of software, but more from a cultural level. Software ultimately runs on some underlying physical computing machine, and physical machines are always changing. If you

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Alan Kay
: [fonc] Eternal computing On Sat, 2011-06-25 at 09:39 -0700, Steve Wart wrote: I've been thinking about eternal computing not so much in the context of software, but more from a cultural level. Software ultimately runs on some underlying physical computing machine, and physical machines

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Wesley Smith
Related to the bio perspective on computation, has anyone on this list explored the ideas of Tibor Ganti's Chemoton Theory in relation to computation and programming? It's a really interesting example of how to abstract out the essence of biological systems in a way that simplifies without losing

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Alan Kay
From: Wesley Smith wesley.h...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 12:16:55 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Eternal computing Related to the bio perspective on computation, has anyone on this list explored the ideas of Tibor Ganti's

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Casey Ransberger
I can't help wondering whether or not it was any easier to keep a system running when systems were big enough to climb inside of. When my tablet bricks and refuses to take a flash, I can open the machine (I mean I can break it open) but the part that computes and remembers is all one piece now.

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Wesley Smith
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the references to The Chemoton Theory -- I hadn't seen this before. But I didn't understand your reference to Bergson -- wasn't he an adherent of the Elan Vital as a necessary part of what is life? and that also

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Casey Ransberger
On Jun 29, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Wesley Smith wesley.h...@gmail.com wrote: The aspect of Bersgon that I was thinking about though was the concept of duration, particularly that of the cerebral interval (the time between a received movement and an executed movement), which generates perception.

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Max OrHai
A couple more references in this vein: Robert Rosen's work in theoretical biology predates the autopoiesis theory of Maturana and Varela by a couple decades, and is somewhat more general and mathematically rigorous. He's not as well-known, but his book *Life Itself* is well worth reading,

[fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-25 Thread Steve Wart
I've been thinking about eternal computing not so much in the context of software, but more from a cultural level. Software ultimately runs on some underlying physical computing machine, and physical machines are always changing. If you want a program to run for a long time, the software needs to