[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[crg--- via Freedos-user]

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[hipernike via Freedos-user]

Hi!. Happy new year!

I want to share this information that I hope it'll be useful for you. I wanted 
to use my usb flash drive in FreeDOS, however, I didn't found any information 
in the FreeDOS wiki, including the links section (I did found some useful 
programs and links in this mailing list), thus, I did some research and I found 
and classifed various drivers, that I tested as well. So, here is the list 
including some feedback on their behavior and also the links where you can find 
them.

Also, I want to clarify the terms aspi manager and aspi disk driver. The former 
is a program that maps usbs to aspi devices, and the latter is the program that 
once it has recognized the aspi manager, assigns letters to the disk partitions.

And finally, some useful information for testing the drivers:
1. You should disable the usb legacy support
2. I read on the mailing lists that some errors appeared with dos protected 
mode, so try using different boot options
3. Tinker with the different flags the drivers provide, e.g., in my computer I 
have one ehci and two ohci, but the usbaspi driver series only worked for me 
when using the /o flag (only ohci)

Useful links:
- https://www.bttr-software.de/links/
- https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/bugs/18/
- https://slomkowski.eu/retrocomputing/usb-mass-storage-on-ms-dos/
- https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=9257
- https://www.stefanthoolen.nl/archive/darkehorse
- https://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm
- https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=66403
- 
https://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-02-05-USB-in-MS-DOS-and-Win98.htm
- http://ps-2.kev009.com/basil.holloway/ALL%20TXT/DOSusb.txt
- http://www.pcxt-micro.com/
- https://freedos-user.narkive.com/vagYZYr9/x-windows-server-for-dos
- https://pmwiki.xaver.me/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.USB
- https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/mix_entry.php?id=2269
- https://groups.google.com/g/fido7.ru.dos/c/D9--YrvoibQ
- https://msfn.org/board/topic/81926-usb-mass-storage-driver-for-dos/
- https://www.ubcd4win.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t3362.html
- https://fido7.ru.dos.narkive.com/vN2CjWEV/usb-support-for-dos- 
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ms-dos7.hit.bg/dosware/usb/*

P.S.It'll be great if we can add this information to a FreeDOS wiki page, so it 
can be more accesible.

List:
- DOSUSB20 2.0 demo version for USB 2.0 and USB 1.1 by Georg Potthast 
[http://www.dosusb.net/download.htm]
/ Did not work
/ First, I tested usbdisk.sys and then dosusb and viceversa
/ Tested dosusb with /1 and /L (no output)
/ Usbdisk.sys when loaded tells it has assigned a letter, but then a drive not 
ready error appears
/ Tested loading usbdisk.sys and then the motto hairu driver
- USBDOS (version 2010-01-30) by Bret Johnson 
[[https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distribu](https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distribu\)tions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/usbdos.html]
/ Not tested because it only works for UHCI which I don't have
/ Good documentation, both on how the program works and how usb works in 
general / Good program that lists available controllers (USBHOSTS.COM)
- USBASPI aspi manager series
/ An article from The inquirer that gives information on how it works 
[[https://web.archive.org/web/20070216201](https://web.archive.org/web/20070216201\)356/https://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=10215]
- ver1.07 by NOVAC Co., Ltd. 
[https://www.grc.com/dev/sr6/USB_and_Firewire/Various/]
/ Did not work
/ "OHCI memory mapped I/O not assigned" error
- ver2.01 by MediaLogic Corp 
[https://www.grc.com/dev/sr6/USB_and_Firewire/Various/]
/ Did not work
/ Did not found the usb device
- ver2.00 [not found]
- ver2.06 by Panasonic Communications Co., Ltd. 
[[https://web.archive.org/web/20030610013759/http://panasonic.co.jp:80/pcc/products/drive/other/driver/f2h_usb.exe](https://web.archive.org/web/20030610013759/http://panasonic.c\)]
/ Works
/ Takes a lot of time to find the usb
- ver2.15 by Panasonic Communications Co., Ltd. 
[[https://web.archive.org/web/20040605200642/http://panasonic.co.jp:80/pcc/products/drive/other/driver/f2h_usb.exe](https://web.archive.org/web/20040605200642/http://panasonic.c\)]
/ Works
- ver2.20 by Panasonic Communications Co., Ltd. 
[[https://web.archive.org/web/20070102103153/http://panasonic.co.jp:80/pcc/products/drive/other/driver/f2h_usb.exe](https://web.archive.org/web/20070102103153/http://panasonic.c\)]
/ Works - ver2.24 [not found]
- ver2.27 by Panasonic Communications Co., Ltd. 
[[https://web.archive.org/web/20130603214121/http://panasonic.](https://web.archive.org/web/20130603214121/http://panasonic.j\)jp/com/support/drive/archive/f2h/f2h_usb.exe]

- ver2.27x modified version by FANJIANYE and revised in 2010/09/16 
[[https://web.archive.org/web/2021050612144](https://web.archive.org/web/2021050612144\)2/http://www.mdgx.com/files/USBEXFAT.ZIP]
/ Works
/ Is the fastest version available
- ver2.28 (modified version???) 

[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Jim Erickson]

 i am attempting to get snuz running on my freedos 1.3 installation. i
have a wattcp.cfg and a snuz.rc configured. however when i run
snuz.exe i get "tcpopen failed" error. just wondering what exactly i
am doing wrong. will gladly supply any requested files. thanks in
advance.

all the best,
jimeric...@gmail.com


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Gabriele Barbone]

Thanks for answer

Il ven 20 gen 2023, 19:56 Jim Hall  ha scritto:

> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 12:42 PM Gabriele Barbone 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello i have a question can freedos run on
> > Power Mac G3 G4 ?
>
>
> Not natively. FreeDOS (like any DOS) needs an Intel CPU and a BIOS;
> the PowerMac has neither of those. Instead, you would need to boot
> FreeDOS from within MacOS, using a virtual machine or PC emulator.
>
>
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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Gabriele Barbone]

hello everyone, here is an article in Italian that talks about the
twentieth anniversary of freedos

https://www.zeusnews.it/n.php?c=18841
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Jim Hall]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 12:42 PM Gabriele Barbone  wrote:
>
> Hello i have a question can freedos run on
> Power Mac G3 G4 ?


Not natively. FreeDOS (like any DOS) needs an Intel CPU and a BIOS;
the PowerMac has neither of those. Instead, you would need to boot
FreeDOS from within MacOS, using a virtual machine or PC emulator.


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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Gabriele Barbone]

Hello i have a question can freedos run on
Power Mac G3 G4 ?
Thanks for answer
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Travis Siegel]

On 12/31/2021 11:50 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 at 08:37, Thomas Mueller  wrote:

I remember OS/2 2.x and Warp could run emulated DOS and could also boot and run 
a specific DOS, but with limitations.


I actually had a copy of OS/2 1.33 Extended edition.  If I recall 
correctly, it was something like 40 floppy floppy disks.  I never did 
install it on anything, I gave it to a friend of mine, and I don't think 
he ever installed either, but I at least did have a copy for a short 
period of time. :)


That's as close to OS/2 as I ever got.




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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Liam Proven]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 at 08:37, Thomas Mueller  wrote:
>
> I remember OS/2 2.x and Warp could run emulated DOS and could also boot and 
> run a specific DOS, but with limitations.
>
> I ran OS/2 from 1.3 to Warp 4 Fixpack 12 until it crashed and destroyed most 
> hard drive data sometime during the single-digit days of April 2001.

You lasted longer than me, then. I was a big fan of OS/2 2.0 and ran
it on 3 or 4 PCs. It was so far ahead of any other PC OS back then, it
was amazing.

But 2.1 broke a bunch of my device drivers, so I lost my mouse, my
(external parallel-port) sound card, and SVGA mode on my 14" CRT.

I tried what was then still codenamed Windows Chicago Beta (it was
before the 95 name had been chosen) and it ran flawlessly, picking up
all my hardware, allowed networking with my flatmate's PC, and had a
better UI.

So I switched.

At work, I ran NT 3.51.

> I even remember my room temperature at that time was 83 F, which was, and 
> still is, quite comfortable to me.

I am "only" 54 so I don't speak Fahrenheit; it was no longer taught in
UK schools by 1971 or so when I started primary school.

Google tells me that's 28º C. Unpleasantly warm but tolerable. Above
about 35º I find it hard to focus at all and I don't think I could
work in a room at 30º.

> After that, I was never again able to boot OS/2 even from the installation or 
> other floppies (Trap 000c or 000e).

You mean, on the same PC? Sounds like something sustained thermal
damage. Early 1990s PCs had poor cooling, because they didn't need
much.

> I then ran DR-DOS 7.03 much of the time before migrating to Linux Slackware.

I think my home computers went:

[Various 8-bits ->] Acorn RISC OS -> OS/2 2 -> Windows 95 -> NT 4 ->
Caldera OpenLinux -> SUSE Professional -> Ubuntu.

I tried lots of other Linuxes and also ran Mac OS X 10.0 through to
10.6, before a long gap of several versions until I could afford an
Intel Mac.

> Now I see no advantage in OS/2's successors (eComStation, ArcaOS) compared to 
> choosing between FreeBSD, NetBSD, Linux and Haiku which have the advantage of 
> being open-source.

Honestly, I have to agree.

I want to try ArcaOS. I did get review copies of eComStation.

It runs fine in VMs, but on bare hardware, it's unable to install (or
even boot) on most machines I've tried, and on the ones it can, it's
got as far as corrupting my partitioning (in one instance destroying 3
or 4 other OSes) and then failing to install.

It's a pleasant enough desktop OS, but like MorphOS, to me it feels
clunky and old-fashioned in the 21st century, and the lack of modern
apps is very limiting. If it were cheap, I would use it for nostalgia,
but it's not -- it's priced like the 1990s as well.

-- 
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Bryan Kilgallin]

Hi Thomas:


OS/2 2.x and Warp could boot DOS from a floppy, but I don't think even
they could run it from a disk partition.


I used OS/2 Warp 4. Being delighted by the speech-recognition interface!


I ran OS/2 from 1.3 to Warp 4 Fixpack 12 until it crashed and destroyed most 
hard drive data sometime during the single-digit days of April 2001.


I struggled to keep it alive. Discovering that my installation disks got 
corrupted!



I even remember my room temperature at that time was 83 F, which was, and still 
is, quite comfortable to me.


My desk temperature is now 27 °C (81 °F).


Now I see no advantage in OS/2's successors (eComStation, ArcaOS) compared to 
choosing between FreeBSD, NetBSD, Linux and Haiku which have the advantage of 
being open-source.


Being retired, I don't want to pay ongoing licence fees.

But I am working on nerd-dictation. So I've been filling-up its 
configuration file with exceptions!

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Thomas Mueller]

Excerpt from Liam Proven:

> I have been using NT since the first version, 3.1, in 1993. There is
> no built-in facility or tool to run DOS under it and never has been.
> That is why I asked. This is highly relevant and important to the
> question. There are no "dots" to follow.
 
> OS/2 2.x and Warp could boot DOS from a floppy, but I don't think even
> they could run it from a disk partition. Not sure; I haven't used OS/2
> in over 25 years.

I remember OS/2 2.x and Warp could run emulated DOS and could also boot and run 
a specific DOS, but with limitations.

I ran OS/2 from 1.3 to Warp 4 Fixpack 12 until it crashed and destroyed most 
hard drive data sometime during the single-digit days of April 2001.

I even remember my room temperature at that time was 83 F, which was, and still 
is, quite comfortable to me.

After that, I was never again able to boot OS/2 even from the installation or 
other floppies (Trap 000c or 000e).

I then ran DR-DOS 7.03 much of the time before migrating to Linux Slackware.

Now I see no advantage in OS/2's successors (eComStation, ArcaOS) compared to 
choosing between FreeBSD, NetBSD, Linux and Haiku which have the advantage of 
being open-source.

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Louis Santillan]

It would likely be prudent to get a confirmation statement from Russell
Nelson as well.

Per crynwr.com

nel...@crynwr.com
+1 315 323 1241 voice
Crynwr Software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd.
Potsdam, NY 13676

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:19 AM John Vella  wrote:

> Agree!
>
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 07:33 Thomas Mueller,  wrote:
>
>> from Jim Hall:
>>
>>
>> > I don't know why the sources later had an "AMD" statement put on them,
>> > but you cannot claim "proprietary" or "copyright" on something that
>> > was previously released under the GNU General Public License.
>>
>> > It appears that somewhere along the line, someone (at AMD?) had access
>> > to the sources, probably in a larger source tree, and ran a batch job
>> > or script to apply the "AMD" statement to a bunch of source files. And
>> > that happened to catch these GPL and public domain source files. I
>> > believe that was done in error. The original public domain and GPL
>> > declarations trump the latter "AMD" statement.
>>
>>
>> > Resolution:
>>
>>
>> > (1) Let's re-accept the FDNET package into the next FreeDOS
>> distribution.
>>
>> > (2) I'll make a note about this decision in the FreeDOS wiki at
>> > http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3/Packages
>> > (this currently has a red "do not include" note on it .. I'll update
>> > to change it a green "include" message)
>>
>> > (3) To prevent future confusion, I'll create a new version of these
>> > source files that *removes* the "AMD" statement, where a previous GPL
>> > or public domain declaration was already made. (I think that's all of
>> > the files in question.) I'll also create (or update, if it exists) a
>> > README file to note the changes to the source files, and why.
>>
>>
>> > I look forward to including networking support again in the next
>> > distribution, which should be FreeDOS 1.3 RC5.
>>
>>
>> > *If you agree or disagree, I'd appreciate your reply to this email.
>> > Agreement can be simply "agree" or "+1". If you disagree, please
>> > discuss. (But consensus from the last discussion favored including
>> > FDNET, so if no one disagrees now, I'll assume no concerns on this.)
>>
>> Agree
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[John Vella]

Agree!

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 07:33 Thomas Mueller,  wrote:

> from Jim Hall:
>
>
> > I don't know why the sources later had an "AMD" statement put on them,
> > but you cannot claim "proprietary" or "copyright" on something that
> > was previously released under the GNU General Public License.
>
> > It appears that somewhere along the line, someone (at AMD?) had access
> > to the sources, probably in a larger source tree, and ran a batch job
> > or script to apply the "AMD" statement to a bunch of source files. And
> > that happened to catch these GPL and public domain source files. I
> > believe that was done in error. The original public domain and GPL
> > declarations trump the latter "AMD" statement.
>
>
> > Resolution:
>
>
> > (1) Let's re-accept the FDNET package into the next FreeDOS distribution.
>
> > (2) I'll make a note about this decision in the FreeDOS wiki at
> > http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3/Packages
> > (this currently has a red "do not include" note on it .. I'll update
> > to change it a green "include" message)
>
> > (3) To prevent future confusion, I'll create a new version of these
> > source files that *removes* the "AMD" statement, where a previous GPL
> > or public domain declaration was already made. (I think that's all of
> > the files in question.) I'll also create (or update, if it exists) a
> > README file to note the changes to the source files, and why.
>
>
> > I look forward to including networking support again in the next
> > distribution, which should be FreeDOS 1.3 RC5.
>
>
> > *If you agree or disagree, I'd appreciate your reply to this email.
> > Agreement can be simply "agree" or "+1". If you disagree, please
> > discuss. (But consensus from the last discussion favored including
> > FDNET, so if no one disagrees now, I'll assume no concerns on this.)
>
> Agree
>
> Tom
>
>
>
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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Thomas Mueller]

from Jim Hall:


> I don't know why the sources later had an "AMD" statement put on them,
> but you cannot claim "proprietary" or "copyright" on something that
> was previously released under the GNU General Public License.

> It appears that somewhere along the line, someone (at AMD?) had access
> to the sources, probably in a larger source tree, and ran a batch job
> or script to apply the "AMD" statement to a bunch of source files. And
> that happened to catch these GPL and public domain source files. I
> believe that was done in error. The original public domain and GPL  
> declarations trump the latter "AMD" statement.


> Resolution:


> (1) Let's re-accept the FDNET package into the next FreeDOS distribution.

> (2) I'll make a note about this decision in the FreeDOS wiki at
> http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3/Packages
> (this currently has a red "do not include" note on it .. I'll update
> to change it a green "include" message)

> (3) To prevent future confusion, I'll create a new version of these
> source files that *removes* the "AMD" statement, where a previous GPL  
> or public domain declaration was already made. (I think that's all of
> the files in question.) I'll also create (or update, if it exists) a
> README file to note the changes to the source files, and why.


> I look forward to including networking support again in the next
> distribution, which should be FreeDOS 1.3 RC5.


> *If you agree or disagree, I'd appreciate your reply to this email.
> Agreement can be simply "agree" or "+1". If you disagree, please
> discuss. (But consensus from the last discussion favored including
> FDNET, so if no one disagrees now, I'll assume no concerns on this.)

Agree

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - problem with 1998 laptop

[Šimon Dobeš]

Thanks
Simon


-- Pôvodná správa --
Od: "Eric Auer" 
Komu: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Odoslané: 9. 1. 2021 14:46:49
Predmet: Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - problem with 1998 laptop


Hi Šimon,


 OK
 I will try to explain more properly. I plugged in my Laptop. Pushed down
 the power button and nothing happened. I cleaned up and I did not found
 anything leaked or broken. I think there is a problem with power supply


In my experience with laptops of people I know, the most
common reasons for this are:

- the battery was dead (main battery or CMOS / clock battery)

- the charger / power supply socket no longer made good contact,
  so while you believe everything is connected, no power arrives

- the charger / power supply no longer worked at all (quite often!)

- or, unlikely, you had to reset the CMOS settings or reinstall the OS


 or some circuits. I will keep finding. I have also a battery pack for
 that Laptop too but I am not using since those batteries are way old to
 handle all operations and may explode.
 Simon


As Mateusz explains, it may still be better to connect the battery,
even if the battery is so weak that your computer switches off a
few seconds after you disconnect the power supply from the AC socket.

Luckily, it is easy to get replacement power supply "bricks". Some
are sold with all sorts of connectors and with adjustable voltage.

You have to make sure to use the right voltage, polarity and plug!
Wrong power replacement choices can permanently damage your laptop.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Ralf Quint]

On 1/8/2021 11:54 PM, Mateusz Viste wrote:
Note that running a laptop with no battery is not necessarily a good 
idea - some laptops rely on the battery to act as a voltage regulator. 
Running a laptop without its aku pack is how I fried a RAM bank in my 
Toshiba T1100 a couple of years ago. I realized too late that the 
power supply was delivering a much higher voltage than what the laptop 
expected, and needed to be brought down by the battery not to damage 
anything. More recent constructions are probably sturdier, but one 
should be careful nonetheless. 


Not necessarily. As a laptop with a full charge battery should not be 
power through the battery when connected to the mains. And for what it 
is worth, I have one Dell laptop that I am running for more than 10 
years now without an inserted battery, as the charging circuit is not 
operational. But it works just fine, with a great 1600x1280 screen, when 
just ran off the AC adapter.


But then this is a pure hardware issue, and nothing related to FreeDOS...

Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Ralf Quint]

On 1/8/2021 11:46 PM, Šimon Dobeš wrote:

OK
I will try to explain more properly. I plugged in my Laptop. Pushed 
down the power button and nothing happened. I cleaned up and I did not 
found anything leaked or broken. I think there is a problem with power 
supply or some circuits. I will keep finding. I have also a battery 
pack for that Laptop too but I am not using since those batteries are 
way old to handle all operations and may explode. 


OK, so nothing that has do with FreeDOS then...

Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - problem with 1998 laptop

[Eric Auer]

Hi Šimon,

> OK
> I will try to explain more properly. I plugged in my Laptop. Pushed down
> the power button and nothing happened. I cleaned up and I did not found
> anything leaked or broken. I think there is a problem with power supply

In my experience with laptops of people I know, the most
common reasons for this are:

- the battery was dead (main battery or CMOS / clock battery)

- the charger / power supply socket no longer made good contact,
  so while you believe everything is connected, no power arrives

- the charger / power supply no longer worked at all (quite often!)

- or, unlikely, you had to reset the CMOS settings or reinstall the OS

> or some circuits. I will keep finding. I have also a battery pack for
> that Laptop too but I am not using since those batteries are way old to
> handle all operations and may explode.
> Simon

As Mateusz explains, it may still be better to connect the battery,
even if the battery is so weak that your computer switches off a
few seconds after you disconnect the power supply from the AC socket.

Luckily, it is easy to get replacement power supply "bricks". Some
are sold with all sorts of connectors and with adjustable voltage.

You have to make sure to use the right voltage, polarity and plug!
Wrong power replacement choices can permanently damage your laptop.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - OS for 2002 Pentium PC

[Eric Auer]

Hi Šimon Dobeš,

> Almost I forgot.
> If I will install FreeDOS on that pentium PC that have about 60 GB of
> Hard Disk. May I been able to install some Windows OS? (e.g. Windows 95,
> 98, 2000)

You can even install a current Linux on 60 GB without
problems, but many modern apps will run very slowly
because you only have 256 MB RAM. Note that after 2018,
some Linux versions started to require 64-bit processors
and others require at least a processor with MMX or SSE.

As you can see here, a number of special Linux distributions
specifically select lightweight components to run WELL on a
computer which does not have much RAM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-weight_Linux_distribution

For example Puppy Linux from 2017 is listed as "256 MB RAM,
download size 234 MB".

Wikipedia writes that Windows 2000 needs at least a Pentium
with free 1 GB harddisk space and 32 MB RAM, but recommends
128 MB RAM and 5 GB harddisk space. So that easily works and
of course also older Windows 95 or 98. However, they all have
not received updates for decades any most modern apps will not
work on ancient Windows versions. So you will not have a lot
of fun with old Windows. And it easily gets hacked or infected
by computer viruses because of the missing security updates.

So have fun with FreeDOS and Linux instead :-) Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Šimon Dobeš]

That's good answer. I thought the Laptop have its own regulator built in!

Dňa so, 9. jan 2021, 8:56 Mateusz Viste  napísal(a):

> Note that running a laptop with no battery is not necessarily a good
> idea - some laptops rely on the battery to act as a voltage regulator.
> Running a laptop without its aku pack is how I fried a RAM bank in my
> Toshiba T1100 a couple of years ago. I realized too late that the power
> supply was delivering a much higher voltage than what the laptop
> expected, and needed to be brought down by the battery not to damage
> anything. More recent constructions are probably sturdier, but one
> should be careful nonetheless.
>
> Mateusz
>
>
>
> On 09/01/2021 08:46, Šimon Dobeš wrote:
> > OK
> > I will try to explain more properly. I plugged in my Laptop. Pushed down
> > the power button and nothing happened. I cleaned up and I did not found
> > anything leaked or broken. I think there is a problem with power supply
> > or some circuits. I will keep finding. I have also a battery pack for
> > that Laptop too but I am not using since those batteries are way old to
> > handle all operations and may explode.
> > Simon
> >
> > -- Pôvodná správa --
> > Od: "Ralf Quint" 
> > Komu: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Odoslané: 9. 1. 2021 4:10:02
> > Predmet: Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
> >
> >> On 1/8/2021 8:28 AM, Šimon Dobeš wrote:
> >>> Hello
> >>> I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from
> >>> 2002 and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
> >>> I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it
> >>> is not working. Where I can fix it?
> >>
> >> Well, as others already mentioned, there is no reason why FreeDOS
> >> would NOT run on such a PC. More RAM that you would probably need, but
> >> not a problem either.
> >>
> >> What however is a problem here is that "it is not working" is not a
> >> proper problem description. You need to be far more
> >> precise/descriptive of what exactly you are trying to do and what the
> >> results are. We can not look over your shoulder, and there simply is
> >> not enough information to even make an educated guess...
> >>
> >> Ralf
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Šimon Dobeš]

Almost I forgot.
If I will install FreeDOS on that pentium PC that have about 60 GB of 
Hard Disk. May I been able to install some Windows OS? (e.g. Windows 95, 
98, 2000)

Thanks
Simon

-- Pôvodná správa --
Od: "Šimon Dobeš" 
Komu: "Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS." 


Odoslané: 8. 1. 2021 17:28:44
Predmet: [Freedos-user] (no subject)


Hello
I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 
2002 and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it is 
not working. Where I can fix it?

Thx
Simon___
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Mateusz Viste]

Note that running a laptop with no battery is not necessarily a good 
idea - some laptops rely on the battery to act as a voltage regulator. 
Running a laptop without its aku pack is how I fried a RAM bank in my 
Toshiba T1100 a couple of years ago. I realized too late that the power 
supply was delivering a much higher voltage than what the laptop 
expected, and needed to be brought down by the battery not to damage 
anything. More recent constructions are probably sturdier, but one 
should be careful nonetheless.


Mateusz



On 09/01/2021 08:46, Šimon Dobeš wrote:

OK
I will try to explain more properly. I plugged in my Laptop. Pushed down 
the power button and nothing happened. I cleaned up and I did not found 
anything leaked or broken. I think there is a problem with power supply 
or some circuits. I will keep finding. I have also a battery pack for 
that Laptop too but I am not using since those batteries are way old to 
handle all operations and may explode.

Simon

-- Pôvodná správa --
Od: "Ralf Quint" 
Komu: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Odoslané: 9. 1. 2021 4:10:02
Predmet: Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)


On 1/8/2021 8:28 AM, Šimon Dobeš wrote:

Hello
I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 
2002 and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it 
is not working. Where I can fix it?


Well, as others already mentioned, there is no reason why FreeDOS 
would NOT run on such a PC. More RAM that you would probably need, but 
not a problem either.


What however is a problem here is that "it is not working" is not a 
proper problem description. You need to be far more 
precise/descriptive of what exactly you are trying to do and what the 
results are. We can not look over your shoulder, and there simply is 
not enough information to even make an educated guess...


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Šimon Dobeš]

OK
I will try to explain more properly. I plugged in my Laptop. Pushed down 
the power button and nothing happened. I cleaned up and I did not found 
anything leaked or broken. I think there is a problem with power supply 
or some circuits. I will keep finding. I have also a battery pack for 
that Laptop too but I am not using since those batteries are way old to 
handle all operations and may explode.

Simon

-- Pôvodná správa --
Od: "Ralf Quint" 
Komu: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Odoslané: 9. 1. 2021 4:10:02
Predmet: Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)


On 1/8/2021 8:28 AM, Šimon Dobeš wrote:

Hello
I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 2002 and 
if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it is not 
working. Where I can fix it?


Well, as others already mentioned, there is no reason why FreeDOS would NOT run 
on such a PC. More RAM that you would probably need, but not a problem either.

What however is a problem here is that "it is not working" is not a proper 
problem description. You need to be far more precise/descriptive of what exactly you are 
trying to do and what the results are. We can not look over your shoulder, and there 
simply is not enough information to even make an educated guess...

Ralf



-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Ralf Quint]

On 1/8/2021 8:28 AM, Šimon Dobeš wrote:

Hello
I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 
2002 and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it 
is not working. Where I can fix it?


Well, as others already mentioned, there is no reason why FreeDOS would 
NOT run on such a PC. More RAM that you would probably need, but not a 
problem either.


What however is a problem here is that "it is not working" is not a 
proper problem description. You need to be far more precise/descriptive 
of what exactly you are trying to do and what the results are. We can 
not look over your shoulder, and there simply is not enough information 
to even make an educated guess...


Ralf



--
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Marv]

Actually, I do use PLOP whenever I have my 2nd HD plugged in. It has
Windows 2000 on it. Sometimes it's handy to use certain windows programs
like Disk Management, but mostly I just leave it disconnected and use
FreeDos.


On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 5:12 PM Andrew Robins  wrote:

> *EDIT: USB2.0 ports via PCMCIA adapter, I mean.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, at 8:07 AM, Andrew Robins wrote:
>
> You might like to consider using Elmar Hanlhofer's "Plop" boot manager
> https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagers.html to assist with booting from your
> native USB1.x port. It helps with working around early BIOS versions that
> did not permit /enable booting from USB as an option. (Have you checked you
> bios to rule this part of the problem out?) However, if you have USB ports
> via a PCMCIA adapter, you may have additional struggles with compatibility.
> Elmar lists PCMCIA compatibility as 'limited', but I have not had any
> success using PLOP to boot from USB.
> HTH
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, at 2:47 AM, Marv wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I'm using a 1998 Intel 440BX machine. It has a
> Pentium II. The network adapter on the motherboard works fine, also serial
> and parallel ports. The only issue I have is the USB port is non-bootable.
> The CD drive is bootable but it is not compatible with FreeDos. I had to
> install FreeDos by copying the necessary files to a separate partition on
> the HD. I transfer files to and from it mainly over the network, but
> sometimes with the 1.44MB floppy.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 11:30 AM Šimon Dobeš 
> wrote:
>
> Hello
> I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 2002
> and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
> I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it is
> not working. Where I can fix it?
> Thx
> Simon
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
>
>
> --
> It's all fun and games until someone divides by zero.
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Andrew Robins]

*EDIT: USB2.0 ports via PCMCIA adapter, I mean. 



On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, at 8:07 AM, Andrew Robins wrote:
> You might like to consider using Elmar Hanlhofer's "Plop" boot manager 
> https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagers.html to assist with booting from your 
> native USB1.x port. It helps with working around early BIOS versions that did 
> not permit /enable booting from USB as an option. (Have you checked you bios 
> to rule this part of the problem out?) However, if you have USB ports via a 
> PCMCIA adapter, you may have additional struggles with compatibility. Elmar 
> lists PCMCIA compatibility as 'limited', but I have not had any success using 
> PLOP to boot from USB. 
> HTH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, at 2:47 AM, Marv wrote:
>> For what it's worth, I'm using a 1998 Intel 440BX machine. It has a Pentium 
>> II. The network adapter on the motherboard works fine, also serial and 
>> parallel ports. The only issue I have is the USB port is non-bootable. The 
>> CD drive is bootable but it is not compatible with FreeDos. I had to install 
>> FreeDos by copying the necessary files to a separate partition on the HD. I 
>> transfer files to and from it mainly over the network, but sometimes with 
>> the 1.44MB floppy.
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 11:30 AM Šimon Dobeš  wrote:
>>> Hello
>>> I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 2002 
>>> and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
>>> I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it is not 
>>> working. Where I can fix it?
>>> Thx
>>> Simon
>>> ___
>>> Freedos-user mailing list
>>> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> It's all fun and games until someone divides by zero.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
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> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Andrew Robins]

You might like to consider using Elmar Hanlhofer's "Plop" boot manager 
https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagers.html to assist with booting from your 
native USB1.x port. It helps with working around early BIOS versions that did 
not permit /enable booting from USB as an option. (Have you checked you bios to 
rule this part of the problem out?) However, if you have USB ports via a PCMCIA 
adapter, you may have additional struggles with compatibility. Elmar lists 
PCMCIA compatibility as 'limited', but I have not had any success using PLOP to 
boot from USB. 
HTH




On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, at 2:47 AM, Marv wrote:
> For what it's worth, I'm using a 1998 Intel 440BX machine. It has a Pentium 
> II. The network adapter on the motherboard works fine, also serial and 
> parallel ports. The only issue I have is the USB port is non-bootable. The CD 
> drive is bootable but it is not compatible with FreeDos. I had to install 
> FreeDos by copying the necessary files to a separate partition on the HD. I 
> transfer files to and from it mainly over the network, but sometimes with the 
> 1.44MB floppy.
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 11:30 AM Šimon Dobeš  wrote:
>> Hello
>> I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 2002 
>> and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
>> I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it is not 
>> working. Where I can fix it?
>> Thx
>> Simon
>> ___
>> Freedos-user mailing list
>> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
> 
> 
> -- 
> It's all fun and games until someone divides by zero.
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Marv]

For what it's worth, I'm using a 1998 Intel 440BX machine. It has a Pentium
II. The network adapter on the motherboard works fine, also serial and
parallel ports. The only issue I have is the USB port is non-bootable. The
CD drive is bootable but it is not compatible with FreeDos. I had to
install FreeDos by copying the necessary files to a separate partition on
the HD. I transfer files to and from it mainly over the network, but
sometimes with the 1.44MB floppy.


On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 11:30 AM Šimon Dobeš  wrote:

> Hello
> I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 2002
> and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
> I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it is
> not working. Where I can fix it?
> Thx
> Simon
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>


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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Šimon Dobeš]

Hello
I want to ask if FREEDOS will run on Intel Pentium old-school PC from 2002
and if it will work properly if this pc have 256 mb of ram.
I have a old IBM ThinkPad from 1998 and it is great computer. But it is not
working. Where I can fix it?
Thx
Simon
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - ems support - updated drivers!

[Eric Auer]

Hi Leo,

when you have a standard install of FreeDOS, it will
automatically include jemm386 or jemmex, which will
have a readme in the \freedos\doc\jemm386\ directory
or maybe in your case \fdos\doc\jemm386\ directory.
The newest version is from 2020 and probably not yet
part of the default distro install. You can see on

https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel?tab=repositories

that there also is a newer HIMEMX version:

https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/Jemm

https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/HimemX

The readme is here:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/Jemm/master/Readme.txt

There also is a HTML version. Due to the way github works,
you first have to download the HTML to open it locally:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/Jemm/master/Html/Readme.html

Enjoy :-) Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Louis Santillan]

You can use JEMMEX to provide EMS.  Command docs are here
(https://web.archive.org/web/20200205000957/http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/jemmex.htm).

You need a line like
```
DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\JEMM386.EXE RAM
```
in your fdconfig.sys.

See (https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ms-dos-starter-pack.html) for more info.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:45 AM Leo Kerr  wrote:
>
> does freedos support ems and if so, how would i go about enabling it?
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - ems support

[Leo Kerr]

haven't played with config.sys stuff in a long time so i'm not sure if this
is right but is this line good?

device=C:\fdos\bin\jemmex.exe emx

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:55 AM Darrin M. Gorski  wrote:

>
> It's always nice to have a link too:
>
> https://www.japheth.de/Jemm.html
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:12 AM Eric Auer  wrote:
>
>> > does freedos support ems and if so, how would i go about enabling it?
>>
>> you simply load himemx and jemm386 (or jemmex, which combines both).
>>
>> they both come with comprehensive user manuals. in particular with
>> jemm386, you will probably have to try some options to optimize it.
>>
>> regards, eric
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - ems support

[Darrin M. Gorski]

It's always nice to have a link too:

https://www.japheth.de/Jemm.html


On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:12 AM Eric Auer  wrote:

> > does freedos support ems and if so, how would i go about enabling it?
>
> you simply load himemx and jemm386 (or jemmex, which combines both).
>
> they both come with comprehensive user manuals. in particular with
> jemm386, you will probably have to try some options to optimize it.
>
> regards, eric
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) - ems support

[Eric Auer]

> does freedos support ems and if so, how would i go about enabling it?

you simply load himemx and jemm386 (or jemmex, which combines both).

they both come with comprehensive user manuals. in particular with
jemm386, you will probably have to try some options to optimize it.

regards, eric



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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Leo Kerr]

does freedos support ems and if so, how would i go about enabling it?
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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[温鹏 via Freedos-user]

hi

Is there any chance to emulate isa sound card over modern usb sound card


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Re: [Freedos-user] (No Subject) - FreeDOS install problem Haytam

[haytam.fr--- via Freedos-user]

hey friend , sorry I did not download completely , redownloaded it and the 
problem fixed , I still have some issues , I found in freedos 1.2:
using command pcisleep list shows my wlan device by Intel with an ?
and my high definition audio device doesn't work , PS speaker works!
sorry for grammar,
I am using an dell latitude e6400 ,

 Original Message 
On Jun 11, 2020, 9:06 PM, Eric Auer wrote:

> Hi! My idea was that Haytam can write a more verbose description
> when he can use the language he likes most. Unfortunately, this
> text (saying he is using Rufus etc.) is not really long either?
> More verbose please! Longer problem description & details please!
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>> سلام عليكم ، انا الان احاول اعادة تحميل ، قد اكون لم احملها كاملا ، انا 
>> استخدم برنامج rufus .
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (No Subject) - FreeDOS install problem Haytam

[Eric Auer]

Hi! My idea was that Haytam can write a more verbose description
when he can use the language he likes most. Unfortunately, this
text (saying he is using Rufus etc.) is not really long either?
More verbose please! Longer problem description & details please!

Regards, Eric

> سلام عليكم ، انا الان احاول اعادة تحميل ، قد اكون لم احملها كاملا ، انا 
> استخدم برنامج rufus .



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Re: [Freedos-user] (No Subject)

[haytam.fr--- via Freedos-user]

sorry guys , i did not download it correctly , even my browser said it 
completed but the hash didnt match , now after re downloading it does , sorry 
guys,
one thing , WLAN doesnt work , even that it shows in "pcisleep l" it the last 
device , with intel , with wlan? , i tried installing fdnet ,but it didnt , and 
also why high definitino auido device doesnt work?

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:57 PM, haytam.fr--- via Freedos-user 
 wrote:

> سلام عليكم ، انا الان احاول اعادة تحميل ، قد اكون لم احملها كاملا ، انا 
> استخدم برنامج rufus .___
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Re: [Freedos-user] (No Subject)

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/11/2020 12:57 PM, haytam.fr--- via Freedos-user wrote:
سلام عليكم ، انا الان احاول اعادة تحميل ، قد اكون لم احملها كاملا ، 
انا استخدم برنامج rufus .


Und 'en Ei vm Konsum...

Really?



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[Freedos-user] (No Subject)

[haytam.fr--- via Freedos-user]

سلام عليكم ، انا الان احاول اعادة تحميل ، قد اكون لم احملها كاملا ، انا استخدم 
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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[James Davis]

 

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Jim Hall]

Hi kaye

I may have missed it, but why are you installing on actual PC hardware? Why
not install FreeDOS in a PC emulator? Then you can run FreeDOS and Linux at
the same time. It's very easy.

You're running Linux, so you probably have QEMU already installed as part
of your distribution. If you use GNOME, you may also have GNOME Boxes
(which uses QEMU on the back end, anyway). You can also download and
install VirtualBox, and use that to install and run FreeDOS.

I wrote an article for OpenSource.com a few years ago, describing how to
install and run FreeDOS on Linux using QEMU. You can find it here:
https://opensource.com/article/17/10/run-dos-applications-linux

Note that you define the virtual machine environment (the PC emulator)
using options on the QEMU command line. So the command line can be very
long, because you will want to specify the CDROM image, the hard drive
image, the VGA card, and so on. But it's very simple. I put all of that in
a script so I don't have to type it all the time.

Even though you start QEMU from a command line, you are doing this under
the graphical desktop environment - probably GNOME or KDE on most modern
Linux distributions. (I use GNOME.)

If you prefer a graphical environment, you can use VirtualBox. There's a
very nice "how to" guide on the FreeDOS Wiki that describes how to do this:
http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/VirtualBox


Jim


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 7:16 AM kaye n  wrote:

> UPDATE
> It seems it installed in the USB installer itself!
>
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 8:06 PM kaye n  wrote:
>
>> Thank you David and Jerome.
>>
>> I used my Linux operating system's Unetbootin to create the FreeDOS USB
>> installer.
>>
>> It failed to boot. So I logged back in to my Linux, created a boot flag
>> for the USB flash drive using GParted.
>>
>> It booted.
>>
>> There was a blue screen and I had only "Default" to choose from.  Or I
>> had to press tab for more options. I chose default, no options about what
>> partition to install into, but it
>> installed without problems, although it took awhile, maybe 20 minutes.
>>
>> I logged back in to the Linux OS, executed this in terminal:
>>
>> sudo update-grub
>>
>> FreeDOS did not appear as one of the operating systems to choose from.
>>
>> I opened GParted and saw that the 1GB (that's one GB) fat32 partition of
>> the hard drive was empty (only 1.03MB was used).  File Manager also shows
>> that the fat32 partition was empty.
>>
>> So where did FreeDOS installed to? Did it even install at all?
>>
>> Thank you for your time!
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 7:52 PM Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mac, Linux & BSD, you can simply use the dd command line utility.
>>> Windows will require additional software.
>>>
>>> On *nix, if you’re USB drive is /dev/sdg then something like the
>>> following will do it:
>>>
>>> su umount /dev/sdg*
>>> su dd if=FD12FULL.img of=/dev/sdg
>>>
>>> Just make sure you write to the USB device and not you hard disk.
>>>
>>> > On Aug 19, 2019, at 6:43 AM, David McMackins 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > vmdk is a virtual machine image for VMWare. You want to use the img
>>> > file. Use a disk imaging software to image your drive using the img
>>> file
>>> > as the image.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > David E. McMackins II
>>> > www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
>>> >
>>> >> On 8/19/19 5:39 AM, kaye n wrote:
>>> >> Hello Friends
>>> >>
>>> >> In http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>>> >>
>>> >> It says,
>>> >> *If your computer doesn't have a CDROM drive,* use the USB fob drive
>>> >> installer. Write this to a USB fob drive and boot it to start the
>>> >> install. The "Full" and "Lite" versions install the same FreeDOS, but
>>> >> the "Lite" installer does not contain some extra bonus software
>>> packages.
>>> >>
>>> >> How exactly do I do that?  The file FD12FULL.zip contains three files:
>>> >> FD12FULL.img
>>> >> FD12FULL.vmdk
>>> >> README.md
>>> >>
>>> >> Do I just unzip these three to the USB flash drive and boot into the
>>> USB
>>> >> drive?
>>> >> I tried it and it didn't work.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sorry for my ignorance.
>>> >> Thank you for your time.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ___
>>> >> Freedos-user mailing list
>>> >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[kaye n]

UPDATE
It seems it installed in the USB installer itself!

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 8:06 PM kaye n  wrote:

> Thank you David and Jerome.
>
> I used my Linux operating system's Unetbootin to create the FreeDOS USB
> installer.
>
> It failed to boot. So I logged back in to my Linux, created a boot flag
> for the USB flash drive using GParted.
>
> It booted.
>
> There was a blue screen and I had only "Default" to choose from.  Or I had
> to press tab for more options. I chose default, no options about what
> partition to install into, but it
> installed without problems, although it took awhile, maybe 20 minutes.
>
> I logged back in to the Linux OS, executed this in terminal:
>
> sudo update-grub
>
> FreeDOS did not appear as one of the operating systems to choose from.
>
> I opened GParted and saw that the 1GB (that's one GB) fat32 partition of
> the hard drive was empty (only 1.03MB was used).  File Manager also shows
> that the fat32 partition was empty.
>
> So where did FreeDOS installed to? Did it even install at all?
>
> Thank you for your time!
>
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 7:52 PM Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>
>> On Mac, Linux & BSD, you can simply use the dd command line utility.
>> Windows will require additional software.
>>
>> On *nix, if you’re USB drive is /dev/sdg then something like the
>> following will do it:
>>
>> su umount /dev/sdg*
>> su dd if=FD12FULL.img of=/dev/sdg
>>
>> Just make sure you write to the USB device and not you hard disk.
>>
>> > On Aug 19, 2019, at 6:43 AM, David McMackins 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > vmdk is a virtual machine image for VMWare. You want to use the img
>> > file. Use a disk imaging software to image your drive using the img file
>> > as the image.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > David E. McMackins II
>> > www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
>> >
>> >> On 8/19/19 5:39 AM, kaye n wrote:
>> >> Hello Friends
>> >>
>> >> In http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>> >>
>> >> It says,
>> >> *If your computer doesn't have a CDROM drive,* use the USB fob drive
>> >> installer. Write this to a USB fob drive and boot it to start the
>> >> install. The "Full" and "Lite" versions install the same FreeDOS, but
>> >> the "Lite" installer does not contain some extra bonus software
>> packages.
>> >>
>> >> How exactly do I do that?  The file FD12FULL.zip contains three files:
>> >> FD12FULL.img
>> >> FD12FULL.vmdk
>> >> README.md
>> >>
>> >> Do I just unzip these three to the USB flash drive and boot into the
>> USB
>> >> drive?
>> >> I tried it and it didn't work.
>> >>
>> >> Sorry for my ignorance.
>> >> Thank you for your time.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Freedos-user mailing list
>> >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[kaye n]

Thank you David and Jerome.

I used my Linux operating system's Unetbootin to create the FreeDOS USB
installer.

It failed to boot. So I logged back in to my Linux, created a boot flag for
the USB flash drive using GParted.

It booted.

There was a blue screen and I had only "Default" to choose from.  Or I had
to press tab for more options. I chose default, no options about what
partition to install into, but it
installed without problems, although it took awhile, maybe 20 minutes.

I logged back in to the Linux OS, executed this in terminal:

sudo update-grub

FreeDOS did not appear as one of the operating systems to choose from.

I opened GParted and saw that the 1GB (that's one GB) fat32 partition of
the hard drive was empty (only 1.03MB was used).  File Manager also shows
that the fat32 partition was empty.

So where did FreeDOS installed to? Did it even install at all?

Thank you for your time!

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 7:52 PM Jerome Shidel  wrote:

> On Mac, Linux & BSD, you can simply use the dd command line utility.
> Windows will require additional software.
>
> On *nix, if you’re USB drive is /dev/sdg then something like the following
> will do it:
>
> su umount /dev/sdg*
> su dd if=FD12FULL.img of=/dev/sdg
>
> Just make sure you write to the USB device and not you hard disk.
>
> > On Aug 19, 2019, at 6:43 AM, David McMackins 
> wrote:
> >
> > vmdk is a virtual machine image for VMWare. You want to use the img
> > file. Use a disk imaging software to image your drive using the img file
> > as the image.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > David E. McMackins II
> > www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
> >
> >> On 8/19/19 5:39 AM, kaye n wrote:
> >> Hello Friends
> >>
> >> In http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> >>
> >> It says,
> >> *If your computer doesn't have a CDROM drive,* use the USB fob drive
> >> installer. Write this to a USB fob drive and boot it to start the
> >> install. The "Full" and "Lite" versions install the same FreeDOS, but
> >> the "Lite" installer does not contain some extra bonus software
> packages.
> >>
> >> How exactly do I do that?  The file FD12FULL.zip contains three files:
> >> FD12FULL.img
> >> FD12FULL.vmdk
> >> README.md
> >>
> >> Do I just unzip these three to the USB flash drive and boot into the USB
> >> drive?
> >> I tried it and it didn't work.
> >>
> >> Sorry for my ignorance.
> >> Thank you for your time.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Freedos-user mailing list
> >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[David McMackins]

vmdk is a virtual machine image for VMWare. You want to use the img
file. Use a disk imaging software to image your drive using the img file
as the image.


Regards,

David E. McMackins II
www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com

On 8/19/19 5:39 AM, kaye n wrote:
> Hello Friends
> 
> In http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> 
> It says,
> *If your computer doesn't have a CDROM drive,* use the USB fob drive
> installer. Write this to a USB fob drive and boot it to start the
> install. The "Full" and "Lite" versions install the same FreeDOS, but
> the "Lite" installer does not contain some extra bonus software packages.
> 
> How exactly do I do that?  The file FD12FULL.zip contains three files:
> FD12FULL.img
> FD12FULL.vmdk
> README.md
> 
> Do I just unzip these three to the USB flash drive and boot into the USB
> drive?
> I tried it and it didn't work.
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance.
> Thank you for your time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[kaye n]

Hello Friends

In http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

It says,
*If your computer doesn't have a CDROM drive,* use the USB fob drive
installer. Write this to a USB fob drive and boot it to start the install.
The "Full" and "Lite" versions install the same FreeDOS, but the "Lite"
installer does not contain some extra bonus software packages.

How exactly do I do that?  The file FD12FULL.zip contains three files:
FD12FULL.img
FD12FULL.vmdk
README.md

Do I just unzip these three to the USB flash drive and boot into the USB
drive?
I tried it and it didn't work.

Sorry for my ignorance.
Thank you for your time.
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Eric Auer]

Hi JAS,

> An e-mail address is not a reliable  means 
>  to find one's address: even Eric Auer had an
>  e-mail address in Brazil sometime ago.

Website mirror, not e-mail address...

> My point in sending these messages was to show
>  one more issue that reduces the chances for use 
>  of DOS today.

Nobody forces you to limit your computer activities
for DOS. It does not hurt your DOS installation to
boot another operating system once per year for the
tax form filling.

Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) JAR on Android

[dmccunney]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Actually Android is a modified version of LINUX with
> stronger separation of the directories between apps
> and other differences.

Well, sorta.  Technically, Linux is the Linux kernel - vmlizuz on
installations here.  If it uses a Linux kernel, it's a Linux system.
My old Linksys WRT54G Wifi router used a Linux kernel, and was a Linux
system.  Because the Linux kernel was open source, the firmware built
around it was too, and a variety of replacements for the stock
firmware were available,  I ran a package called Tomato.

But Android differs strongly from desktop Linux installations.  Part
of the difference is the perceived end user.  Desktop Linux systems
are multi-user, and more than one person can be logged on and working
at a time.  Android explicitly assumes a single end user, and only on
user on the system as a time.

> App install files (APK) for
> example are vaguely similar to JAR, but with DEX
> (which you can decompile to Java) instead of CLASS
> files... Wikihow says, to use Java on Android, you
> need emulators and root or other ugly tricks...

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)#Android

The technology is improving. Intel has an open source MultiOS package
that serves as a shim to let you run Java on Android and iOS by
providing interfaces to the underlying system.

> I think it would be better to re-compile your existing
> Java source code to create APK instead of installing
> various tools to run the original JAR file directly?

Given the nature of the devices Android runs on, you are best served
to rebuild specifically for it if writing in Java.  Java is nominally
"Write Once, Run Anywhere", and compiled Java code should run on
anything with a current JRE. (I run IBM's Eclipse IDE, written in
Java, under Windows and Linux here.  I use the *same* binary on both
systems.)

But the differences between things written to run on a desktop or
laptop, and those that are intended to be used on a smartphone or
tablet are vast.  The underlying functionality might be the same, but
the UI and interaction will be dramatically different.  Your code
*can't* be "one size fits all".

> However, HTML 5 & Javascript / Ecmascript might just
> work, so maybe this time Apple is not too wrong? :-)

They are the way things are going.  To make it even more fun, current
compilers are starting to compile to JavaScript instead of machine
code, and the programs will be executed by JavaScript engines doing
JIT compilation to native code, and performance equivalent to
compiling to native code in the first place.

> Cheers, Eric
>
> PS: Flash totally deserves the hate :-p

Agreed.  I run Firefox as my browser.  Flash has been a "top crasher"
for Firefox  for as long as stats have been kept.  Mozilla implemented
a plugin_helper executable called from Firefox as a sandbox plugins
ran in, so a crashing plugin wouldn't take the browser down with it.
Flash was the main reason they did so.  Adobe is still issuing
security patches for the Flash player, but other development has
stopped.  They have a beta toolkit out to assist developers in
migrating from Flash to HTML5/CSS3/JavaScript.

I keep a current Flash player around because some sites I visit use
Flash to good intent, but I'll be delighted when it goes
away.entirely.
__
Dennis

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject) JAR on Android

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

Actually Android is a modified version of LINUX with
stronger separation of the directories between apps
and other differences. App install files (APK) for
example are vaguely similar to JAR, but with DEX
(which you can decompile to Java) instead of CLASS
files... Wikihow says, to use Java on Android, you
need emulators and root or other ugly tricks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)#Android

I think it would be better to re-compile your existing
Java source code to create APK instead of installing
various tools to run the original JAR file directly?

However, HTML 5 & Javascript / Ecmascript might just
work, so maybe this time Apple is not too wrong? :-)

Cheers, Eric

PS: Flash totally deserves the hate :-p

> How can a .jar be run on Android or iOS? Android is built on some
> bastardized version of JAVA but AFAIK nobody has yet produced a fully
> functional JAVA Runtime Environment (JRE) for Android. As for iOS,
> Apple seems to hate JAVA with as much fury as they do Flash.
> 
> Apple sayeth "#%#@ Flash and JAVA. HTML 5.0 is the future!"


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

I trust my mailman to deliver; he always has.
Computers fail alot either from upgrades or they
just die then I don't get my bill to pay on time.
I'm old with luck I'll die before we all go paperless.

DS



On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 11:42:41 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Dale E Sterner 
>  wrote:
> > I get paper statments for everything and they now
> > all charge me for the paper version. The bank is $3
> > and the phone is $5 for paper. I pay because I trust
> > paper. Computer software is in constant flux.
> > One day it works then over night they upgrade
> > and you also have to upgrade to read it. Some times
> > upgrades are easy but it usually means buying something
> > new. If you buy something new they'll just do it again.
> 
> You want to do everything the way you've been doing it for decades,
> and not have to change what you do and how you do it.  You want to
> stay put where you are.  What will you do when that's no longer
> possible?
> 
> In service of that you must jump through hoops and perform all 
> manner
> of labor others have the computer do for them.  It will become
> increasingly harder as you go along.  At some point, you may have no
> choice, and simply have to do it differently because what you need 
> to
> do can no longer be *done* the way you're doing now.  Resisting
> upgrades is storing up trouble for the future.  When you finally
> *have* to upgrade, it will be an order of magnitude harder than it
> could have been because so *much* will change.
> 
> What value do you place on your *time*?  Everyone I know would look 
> at
> what you've recounted as your process and say "That sort of stuff is
> what a *computer* is for!"
> 
> Personally, I think "doing it the way you've always done it" is more
> important than "trust in paper" for you.
> 
> > DS
> __
> Dennis
> 
>
-
-
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


[Watch] What Happens Right Before a Heart Attack
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> I get paper statments for everything and they now
> all charge me for the paper version. The bank is $3
> and the phone is $5 for paper. I pay because I trust
> paper. Computer software is in constant flux.
> One day it works then over night they upgrade
> and you also have to upgrade to read it. Some times
> upgrades are easy but it usually means buying something
> new. If you buy something new they'll just do it again.

You want to do everything the way you've been doing it for decades,
and not have to change what you do and how you do it.  You want to
stay put where you are.  What will you do when that's no longer
possible?

In service of that you must jump through hoops and perform all manner
of labor others have the computer do for them.  It will become
increasingly harder as you go along.  At some point, you may have no
choice, and simply have to do it differently because what you need to
do can no longer be *done* the way you're doing now.  Resisting
upgrades is storing up trouble for the future.  When you finally
*have* to upgrade, it will be an order of magnitude harder than it
could have been because so *much* will change.

What value do you place on your *time*?  Everyone I know would look at
what you've recounted as your process and say "That sort of stuff is
what a *computer* is for!"

Personally, I think "doing it the way you've always done it" is more
important than "trust in paper" for you.

> DS
__
Dennis

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:27 AM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> Sorry I didn't pick up on it.
> Even Brazil is doing it, The web only said India was
> doing it.

Where were you looking?  It sounds like your search was cursory at best.

> How did the US escape this fate.

A complex political system with lots of disagreement on the best way
forward.  Even if everyone agreed going paperless was desireable, you
would still have knock down, drag out fights as to how to achieve it.
Just about every country is heading in that direction.  Some are
farther along than others.
__
Dennis

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

Sorry I didn't pick up on it.
Even Brazil is doing it, The web only said India was
doing it. How did the US escape this fate.

cheers
DS



On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 16:06:38 -0700 Ralf Quint 
writes:
> On 4/26/2018 1:34 PM, Dale E Sterner wrote:
> > Can I ask what country you live in.
> > I hope that doesn't happen in the US.
> Well, his email address is kind of a clear indicator that he's 
> living in 
> Brazil...
> 
> Ralf
> 
> PS: It helps a lot in emails to a mailing list if one is actually 
> putting something appropriate into the subject line...
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
>
-
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> 


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


How To "Remove" Dark Spots
Gundry MD
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

I get paper statments for everything and they now
all charge me for the paper version. The bank is $3
and the phone is $5 for paper. I pay because I trust
paper. Computer software is in constant flux.
One day it works then over night they upgrade
and you also have to upgrade to read it. Some times
upgrades are easy but it usually means buying something
new. If you buy something new they'll just do it again.

DS



On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:23:20 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 5:08 PM, Eric Auer  
> wrote:
> 
> > The NL also love digital payments for all
> > everyday expenses, although studies show
> > that this lets people lose proper view on
> > their expenses. On the other hand, you in
> > the US must be used to pay many things on
> > credit, which has similar side effects.
> 
> The US is increasingly cashless.  Credit cards are only part of it.
> Banks also issue debit cards which deduct directly from the 
> configured
> account.  We use very little cash on a day to day basis, and are 
> happy
> about it.
> 
> Doing everything electronically *does* make it possible to lose 
> proper
> view on expenses if you fail to actually read your monthly 
> statements.
> 
> (And those, Ironically, are often still on paper.  We get paper
> statements from our bank informing us of interest earned on an
> interest bearing checking account.  That account has just enough 
> cash
> to cover bills paid with it, with the rest elsewhere.  It costs the
> bank more in postage to *report* the interest earned than than the
> earned interest itself.
> 
> We'd be just as happy to have that reported electronically, but
> applicable regulations apparently require the bank to do it on 
> paper.
> __
> Dennis
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519
> 
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> 


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


We Say Goodbye To Lara Spencer
risingstarnewspaper.com
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

American taxes are very complex but at least
we can still use paper. My tax return is 8
double sided pages. I'd sink if I didn't have
QPRO to do all the math.
America loves to copy Japanese and European
ways, even when they're stupid. I hope this
is one idea they take a pass on.

cheers
DS


On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 23:08:35 +0200 Eric Auer  writes:
> 
> Hi Dale,
> 
> > Can I ask what country you live in.
> > I hope that doesn't happen in the US.
> 
> > A lot of people don't have computers here.
> > Either they're too expensive or they just
> > don't like them.
> 
> > I just can't imagine not having paper forms.
> 
> For example both in the NL and Germany, you
> are pretty much forced to use computers for
> your taxes. Until a few years ago, you had
> to use Windows software, ironically written
> in portable languages. Right now, you can do
> basic tax using web forms in both countries.
> 
> The Dutch started to offer Linux and Mac tools
> several years ago and suggest phone apps now!?
> 
> The German form wizard is still Windows-only,
> but is at least slightly tuned for Linux Wine.
> There also is a not-so-advertised pile of PDF.
> 
> The NL also love digital payments for all
> everyday expenses, although studies show
> that this lets people lose proper view on
> their expenses. On the other hand, you in
> the US must be used to pay many things on
> credit, which has similar side effects.
> 
> I have not researched other countries, but
> would be keen to hear about France, Belgium
> and similar western European countries :-)
> 
> Regards, Eric
> 
> 
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> 


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


Buckingham Confirms Unfortunate News
risingstarnewspaper.com
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Gregg Eshelman via Freedos-user]

How can a .jar be run on Android or iOS? Android is built on some bastardized 
version of JAVA but AFAIK nobody has yet produced a fully functional JAVA 
Runtime Environment (JRE) for Android.
 As for iOS, Apple seems to hate JAVA with as much fury as they do Flash.

Apple sayeth "#%#@ Flash and JAVA. HTML 5.0 is the future!" and Adobe just 
about instantly discontinued development on Flash for Android and other mobile 
platforms.

Looks like they could uses something like this cross-platform system. Seems to 
embed an app specific JRE into the app, like a 'wrapper' to interface between 
the JAVA code and the OS's API.
Write iOS apps in Java along with Android – Mateusz Bartos – Medium



| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Write iOS apps in Java along with Android – Mateusz Bartos – Medium

Mateusz Bartos

Worldwide, Android is installed on 66% of mobile devices, while iOS is used by 
24% of the global users. But in c...
 |

 |

 |



On Thursday, April 26, 2018, 2:31:57 PM MDT, Dale E Sterner 
 wrote:  
 
 Can I ask what country you live in.
I hope that doesn't happen in the US.
A lot of people don't have computers here.
Either they're too expensive or they just
don't like them.
I just can't imagine not having paper forms.

cheers
DS



On Thu, 26 Apr 18 17:47:05 + =?UTF-8?B?Sm9zZSBBbnRvbmlvIFNlbm5h?=
 writes:
> 
> Dale E Sterner  said:
> 
> > I use qpro to crunch the numbers
> > I still have to get it to print the completed form out.
> > Each year it grows a little bigger and better.
> > I still have to hand copy it into a 1040 form.
> 
>    Yes, and this is why I said you are lucky.
>    You can still use paper forms,  which do not care
>  about how you fill them. 
>    In 2010 or 2011 our government did away
>  completely with paper tax forms.  Everything is
>  now electronic and must be filled in a computer,
>  using one of the purpose-written programs freely
>  available from  the revenue service, then uploaded 
>  to their site. 
>    All those programs are written in Java, so the same 
>  .jar can be used with Windows, Linux or MacOS
>  (now also with  Android or IOs, if you dare to use 
>  an smartphone to fill tax forms).  
>    The programs have been updated since they 
>  appeared, and current tax forms cannot be used 
>  with the older versions.  This is why the JVM version
>  also had to be updated.
> 
>  JAS  --
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Ralf Quint]

On 4/26/2018 1:34 PM, Dale E Sterner wrote:

Can I ask what country you live in.
I hope that doesn't happen in the US.
Well, his email address is kind of a clear indicator that he's living in 
Brazil...


Ralf

PS: It helps a lot in emails to a mailing list if one is actually 
putting something appropriate into the subject line...


---
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 5:08 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:

> The NL also love digital payments for all
> everyday expenses, although studies show
> that this lets people lose proper view on
> their expenses. On the other hand, you in
> the US must be used to pay many things on
> credit, which has similar side effects.

The US is increasingly cashless.  Credit cards are only part of it.
Banks also issue debit cards which deduct directly from the configured
account.  We use very little cash on a day to day basis, and are happy
about it.

Doing everything electronically *does* make it possible to lose proper
view on expenses if you fail to actually read your monthly statements.

(And those, Ironically, are often still on paper.  We get paper
statements from our bank informing us of interest earned on an
interest bearing checking account.  That account has just enough cash
to cover bills paid with it, with the rest elsewhere.  It costs the
bank more in postage to *report* the interest earned than than the
earned interest itself.

We'd be just as happy to have that reported electronically, but
applicable regulations apparently require the bank to do it on paper.
__
Dennis
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Eric Auer]

Hi Dale,

> Can I ask what country you live in.
> I hope that doesn't happen in the US.

> A lot of people don't have computers here.
> Either they're too expensive or they just
> don't like them.

> I just can't imagine not having paper forms.

For example both in the NL and Germany, you
are pretty much forced to use computers for
your taxes. Until a few years ago, you had
to use Windows software, ironically written
in portable languages. Right now, you can do
basic tax using web forms in both countries.

The Dutch started to offer Linux and Mac tools
several years ago and suggest phone apps now!?

The German form wizard is still Windows-only,
but is at least slightly tuned for Linux Wine.
There also is a not-so-advertised pile of PDF.

The NL also love digital payments for all
everyday expenses, although studies show
that this lets people lose proper view on
their expenses. On the other hand, you in
the US must be used to pay many things on
credit, which has similar side effects.

I have not researched other countries, but
would be keen to hear about France, Belgium
and similar western European countries :-)

Regards, Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

Can I ask what country you live in.
I hope that doesn't happen in the US.
A lot of people don't have computers here.
Either they're too expensive or they just
don't like them.
I just can't imagine not having paper forms.

cheers
DS



On Thu, 26 Apr 18 17:47:05 + =?UTF-8?B?Sm9zZSBBbnRvbmlvIFNlbm5h?=
 writes:
> 
> Dale E Sterner  said:
> 
> > I use qpro to crunch the numbers
> > I still have to get it to print the completed form out.
> > Each year it grows a little bigger and better.
> > I still have to hand copy it into a 1040 form.
> 
> Yes, and this is why I said you are lucky.
> You can still use paper forms,  which do not care
>  about how you fill them. 
> In 2010 or 2011 our government did away
>  completely with paper tax forms.  Everything is
>  now electronic and must be filled in a computer,
>  using one of the purpose-written programs freely
>  available from  the revenue service, then uploaded 
>  to their site. 
> All those programs are written in Java, so the same 
>  .jar can be used with Windows, Linux or MacOS
>  (now also with  Android or IOs, if you dare to use 
>  an smartphone to fill tax forms).  
>The programs have been updated since they 
>  appeared, and current tax forms cannot be used 
>  with the older versions.  This is why the JVM version
>  also had to be updated.
> 
>  JAS
> 
> 
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> 


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


How To Remove Dark Spots
Gundry MD
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5ae236b841c9436b811b0st04duc

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Rugxulo]

Tom, why do you always misunderstand? You really think I didn't know
this already?

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Tom Ehlert  wrote:
>> DOSEMU2 (Linux-hosted) is still being worked upon, and there have been

DOSEMU runs on Linux natively but still needs 16-bit DOS (kernel,
shell, utils) files to function.

>> efforts to port the current FreeDOS kernel to GCC (with 16-bit support 
>> patches).

Bart has (mostly) made it compile, so far.

>> Since that (also) works on x64,

"That" meaning DOSEMU, hence it can run atop Linux (32-bit or 64-bit).

>> the latest efforts should again continue to prolong the lifetime of DOS 
>> programs, which is good
>> since even traditional BIOS/CSM will "probably" disappear by 2020.

"Prolong" as in finally be widely accepted into Linux distros without
being relegated to "contrib" or "universe" (multiverse? I forget) due
to "using non-Free build tools".

> this is simply nonsense.

Ugh.

> a GCC compiled FreeDOS kernel will work *exactly* where the standard
> WatcomC compiled works; no more , no less (bugs aside).

Right. I never said otherwise.

> the GCC kernel is still 16 bit stuff, and requires a working BIOS.

Yes, but DOSEMU fakes all of that, so there's (probably?) no real BIOS
access here.

(I guess V86 mode could maybe do it, if needed, but that's not
available under x64, more or less. There are some extremely obscure
third-party hacks, but I've never investigated. Just for completeness,
read [old] http://v86-64.sf.net if curious, but it's probably not
totally reliable. I think VT-X is probably a better path going forward
and is already partially supported under DOSEMU2.)

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Tom Ehlert]

> DOSEMU2 (Linux-hosted) is still being worked upon, and there have been
> efforts to port the current FreeDOS kernel to GCC (with 16-bit support
> patches). Since that (also) works on x64, the latest efforts should
> again continue to prolong the lifetime of DOS programs, which is good
> since even traditional BIOS/CSM will "probably" disappear by 2020.

this is simply nonsense.
a GCC compiled FreeDOS kernel will work *exactly* where the standard
WatcomC compiled works; no more , no less (bugs aside).

the GCC kernel is still 16 bit stuff, and requires a working BIOS.

Tom




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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

Weather it is worth while is for Corel to decide.
I used Excell at work and the only good way to
program it without visual basic is to record and 
save. It seems to work on visual basic. Excells
visual basic commands are not well documented.
I have a half dozen books on Excell macro commands
but could never find anything on visual basic commands.
Excell macro commands never seem to work as promised.
Record and save is a really limited programming method.
If you have ever used Excell and qpro you would
appreciate how much better qpro is.Qpro has the "let" command
which I use to have the macro rewrite itself while still
running. It determines certains values as column length
writes the need macro line to fit the need. Something
I could never do with Excell.

DS

 

On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 15:51:08 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Dale E Sterner  
> wrote:
> > Yes I would purchase their updates; I already have
> > most of their stuff and use.it. They were a cut above
> > the rest of the dos software and I think they still
> > have users out there. I have MS Word 6 for dos;
> > what a real piece of junk..
> 
> I know *you* would purchase updates.  I just don't think the market 
> is
> big enough to make it worth *making* updates to the DOS apps.  The
> sales of updates wouldn't cover a fraction of the costs of making
> them, let alone make actual money,
> 
> > I wouldn't expect big dos sales but I think their fans
> > would be after it but not big time.
> 
> I'd hardly expect *any* DOS sales.  Who would *buy* it?
> 
> Such things are only useful to you if you have a working DOS system
> where you can run them native, or if you run them in some sort of
> virtual machine like VdosPlus.
> 
> But if you need a spreadsheet at all, you run Excel under Windows, 
> or
> Open Office/Libre Office Calc under Linux, OS/X or Windows, or a
> standalone cross platform spreadsheet like Gnumeric, or you work
> online through something like Google Sheets.  (And *all* of the
> non-Excel solutions above can read and write Excel format 
> worksheets.
> Like it or not, Excel is the standard everyone must adhere to.)
> 
> > Wordperfert 6.2 had alot of advanced features that
> > you wouldn't expect to see in dos like the matheditor
> 
> And Windows programs also have such features, so you don't need to 
> run
> WP 6.2 to get them.
> 
> > I use qpro alot; I like to tease my brother in law
> > that I use turbodos for taxes He's like you only wants
> > the latest MS junk.
> 
> No, I don't just want the latest MS junk.  You obviously haven't 
> been
> paying attention when I talk about what I run here.  I have an older
> version of MS Office, but the only component I use is Publisher for
> the odd DTP project, because I know how to make it do what I want.
> For WP, spreadsheets and the like, I use Libre Office, and some 
> stuff
> happens online with Google Docs/Sheets.  (In those instances, I am
> collaborating with others, and we need access to the same files.)
> 
> I still have some ancient DOS stuff I run under emulation, but 
> that's
> a hobby thing done for fun.  I do not and *cannot* use DOS as my
> production OS and DOS apps as my main applications.  To much of what 
> I
> do can't be *done* under DOS.
> 
> If you love QPro, fine.  If you can still use a DOS system and DOS
> applications to do what you need to do, more power to you.  But if 
> you
> can, you are one of a *very* small number of people.  The rest of us
> cannot.  And if you think there are a whole lot of people Just Like
> You who can (or *want* to) do everything in DOS - enough to make it
> worth while to maintain and sell DOS programs - I fear you are 
> living
> in a dream world.  The rest of the world has moved on.
> 
> > DS
> __
> Dennis
>  ..
> 
> > On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 17:48:13 -0400 dmccunney 
> 
> > writes:
> >> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Dale E Sterner 
> 
> >> wrote:
> >> > I wouldn't expect them to ever release the source but
> >> > to put it back on the market for sale, like it use to be.
> >> > Not everthing can be open and free. If you tell them you
> >> > have a million downloads they may feel there is once
> >> > again a viable market for their product and will sell
> >> > and upgrade their dos line. I thing that Corel still has
> >> > alot of dos fans out there. I think alot of people miss
> >> > the simplicity and practicality of dos. Don't expect the
> >> > world to be completely free. DOS isn't worth much
> >> > without high quality software to run on it
> >>
> >> I wouldn't expect release of source, either, though it would be
> >> nice.
> >> But neither would I expect release for sale. Who would *buy* it?
> >> DOS
> >> has been dead for years, and I doubt there would be enough paying
> >> customers to make sales worth the while.  Actually *selling* 
> stuff
> >> involves costs to be *able* to sell it, and unless you 

Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Rugxulo]

Hi!

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 2:51 PM, dmccunney  wrote:
>
> If you love QPro, fine.  If you can still use a DOS system and DOS
> applications to do what you need to do, more power to you.  But if you
> can, you are one of a *very* small number of people.  The rest of us
> cannot.  And if you think there are a whole lot of people Just Like
> You who can (or *want* to) do everything in DOS - enough to make it
> worth while to maintain and sell DOS programs - I fear you are living
> in a dream world.  The rest of the world has moved on.

Dennis, remember that we're currently on a DOS mailing list! More
specifically, one about a Free software clone (hi, Oracle!) of
(unsupported) MS-DOS.

You had a very minor point the first thousand times you told us how
obsolete DOS is, but at this point you're just a broken record.

Should we have false hope? No. Is DOS commercially dead? More or less.
At least, MS-DOS is no longer developed, nor is DR-DOS, nor is ROM DOS
(AFAIK). But all of them are still sold online (again, AFAIK).

DOSEMU2 (Linux-hosted) is still being worked upon, and there have been
efforts to port the current FreeDOS kernel to GCC (with 16-bit support
patches). Since that (also) works on x64, the latest efforts should
again continue to prolong the lifetime of DOS programs, which is good
since even traditional BIOS/CSM will "probably" disappear by 2020.

You act like we're trying to bring back Egyptian hieroglyphics! No,
this is functional software (often commercial) that we all used/bought
within our lifetimes. Yes, there are more popular systems (Windows,
Linux, Mac, et al). We already know this. It's like constantly
barraging C developers with "Java Java Java" or "C++ C++ C++". They
don't care, it still works. Maybe a bad analogy since C is still
actively developed (even Fortran and Ada, which are not as popular).
Moreso since FD tries to be binary compatible for old software rather
than source compatible (which itself is not necessarily easy or even
possible in most cases).

"Moved on" ... yes and no. There are still people using ancient
software. One person recently posted a bug report to VirtualBox about
Turbo Pascal 7 (DOS), which got fixed in ultra-latest release.
(Something to do with keyboard, probably not Finnish layout specific.
Silly Finns, what were they ever good for? [sarcasm] Oh yeah, Linux.
[Another brilliant Finn is nicknamed Bisqwit, but he seems totally
disinterested in Pascal these days in lieu of C++11.])

Sure, we all know that such a person should be using Free Pascal
instead, but they aren't!   ;-)At least FPC is still source
compatible to {$mode tp}, so it's not an impossible transition, if
ever needed.

You know the original XBox (2001) is also "dead", right? And yet even
MS is porting a few select games from it to its latest XBox One. I've
seen videos on YouTube (John Hancock) of at least two titles: Crimson
Skies, Panzer Dragoon Orta. (IIRC, someone said Sega lost sources to
the Saturn versions, so that rules out easy porting.) In video games,
that was two generations ago, and the current gen is already long in
the tooth. It was always sad how backwards compatibility is thrown
away, moreso in video games. Even the Nintendo Switch doesn't support
anything else directly, but they are porting some games to it (e.g.
Wii U's DKC: Tropical Freeze comes out [again] in May.)

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> Yes I would purchase their updates; I already have
> most of their stuff and use.it. They were a cut above
> the rest of the dos software and I think they still
> have users out there. I have MS Word 6 for dos;
> what a real piece of junk..

I know *you* would purchase updates.  I just don't think the market is
big enough to make it worth *making* updates to the DOS apps.  The
sales of updates wouldn't cover a fraction of the costs of making
them, let alone make actual money,

> I wouldn't expect big dos sales but I think their fans
> would be after it but not big time.

I'd hardly expect *any* DOS sales.  Who would *buy* it?

Such things are only useful to you if you have a working DOS system
where you can run them native, or if you run them in some sort of
virtual machine like VdosPlus.

But if you need a spreadsheet at all, you run Excel under Windows, or
Open Office/Libre Office Calc under Linux, OS/X or Windows, or a
standalone cross platform spreadsheet like Gnumeric, or you work
online through something like Google Sheets.  (And *all* of the
non-Excel solutions above can read and write Excel format worksheets.
Like it or not, Excel is the standard everyone must adhere to.)

> Wordperfert 6.2 had alot of advanced features that
> you wouldn't expect to see in dos like the matheditor

And Windows programs also have such features, so you don't need to run
WP 6.2 to get them.

> I use qpro alot; I like to tease my brother in law
> that I use turbodos for taxes He's like you only wants
> the latest MS junk.

No, I don't just want the latest MS junk.  You obviously haven't been
paying attention when I talk about what I run here.  I have an older
version of MS Office, but the only component I use is Publisher for
the odd DTP project, because I know how to make it do what I want.
For WP, spreadsheets and the like, I use Libre Office, and some stuff
happens online with Google Docs/Sheets.  (In those instances, I am
collaborating with others, and we need access to the same files.)

I still have some ancient DOS stuff I run under emulation, but that's
a hobby thing done for fun.  I do not and *cannot* use DOS as my
production OS and DOS apps as my main applications.  To much of what I
do can't be *done* under DOS.

If you love QPro, fine.  If you can still use a DOS system and DOS
applications to do what you need to do, more power to you.  But if you
can, you are one of a *very* small number of people.  The rest of us
cannot.  And if you think there are a whole lot of people Just Like
You who can (or *want* to) do everything in DOS - enough to make it
worth while to maintain and sell DOS programs - I fear you are living
in a dream world.  The rest of the world has moved on.

> DS
__
Dennis
 ..

> On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 17:48:13 -0400 dmccunney 
> writes:
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Dale E Sterner 
>> wrote:
>> > I wouldn't expect them to ever release the source but
>> > to put it back on the market for sale, like it use to be.
>> > Not everthing can be open and free. If you tell them you
>> > have a million downloads they may feel there is once
>> > again a viable market for their product and will sell
>> > and upgrade their dos line. I thing that Corel still has
>> > alot of dos fans out there. I think alot of people miss
>> > the simplicity and practicality of dos. Don't expect the
>> > world to be completely free. DOS isn't worth much
>> > without high quality software to run on it
>>
>> I wouldn't expect release of source, either, though it would be
>> nice.
>> But neither would I expect release for sale. Who would *buy* it?
>> DOS
>> has been dead for years, and I doubt there would be enough paying
>> customers to make sales worth the while.  Actually *selling* stuff
>> involves costs to be *able* to sell it, and unless you are confident
>> of a decent sales volume, it's not worth doing.
>>
>> Yes, FreeDOS 1.1 has gotten a million downloads, but that, by
>> itself,
>> is meaningless.  How many of the downloaders actually installed it,
>> and on what?  How many are actually using it, and what are they
>> doing
>> with it if they are?  (My own bet is that most actually using it are
>> doing do to play old DOS games *native*, not use stuff like WP or
>> QPro.)
>>
>> Best case, you get what Embarcadero once did.  They inherited the
>> former Borland DOS products like Turbo-C, and were offering them as
>> unsupported freeware downloads from a community link on their site.
>> There was no *paying* market for the DOS stuff, but making it
>> available was a nice gesture and good publicity for the Windows
>> based
>> stuff they could *sell*.
>>
>> > cheers
>> > DS.
>> __
>> Dennis
>>
>>
> -
> -
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! 

Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

I think Corel should realease their old versions FREE but 
be able to sell updates to their fans. I did purchase a disks full
of updates from a woman who said they came from Corel.
It gave me a hand full of improvements. If I see any more
Corel updates - I'll buy.

cheers
DS



On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 17:40:14 -0500 Jim Hall  writes:
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:12 PM, dmccunney 
>  wrote:
> [..]
> > If Jim can convince Corel to offer source uinder a license that 
> will
> > let him add it the the FreeDOS distribution, I'll be surprised and
> > delighted.
> >
> > If anyone actually grabs that source, and uploads new and improved
> > versions incorporating changes they made to the source, I'll be
> > astonished.
> >
> > Having it available under a compatible open source license will 
> let
> > Jim make it available as part of FreeDOS.
> >
> > Having it available as Freeware gives folks something they can 
> *do*
> > with FreeDOS, which may be more important.
> 
> 
> I agree!
> 
> My view is "Ask, and they might do it." And "If you don't ask, they 
> won't."
> 
> The ideal is that vendors might release the source code under a
> Free/open source software license, like the GNU GPL. That would be
> great!
> 
> But some vendors might not be able to release the source code. Maybe
> there are legal restrictions, based on licensing agreements
> (libraries, etc) and it would be too much work for them to go 
> through
> the legal clearance process to release the source code to a classic
> DOS program. In this case, I'd be happy if they re-released the
> software as free (gratis). For example, Trius Inc did this with the
> shareware As-Easy-As spreadsheet. They provided an activation code
> that anyone could use to activate As-Easy-As 5.7.
> 
>
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***


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 6:40 PM, Jim Hall  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:12 PM, dmccunney  wrote:
> [..]
>> Having it available under a compatible open source license will let
>> Jim make it available as part of FreeDOS.
>>
>> Having it available as Freeware gives folks something they can *do*
>> with FreeDOS, which may be more important.
>
> I agree!
>
> My view is "Ask, and they might do it." And "If you don't ask, they won't."

Yep.

> The ideal is that vendors might release the source code under a
> Free/open source software license, like the GNU GPL. That would be
> great!

Better still if they would release under a BSD or MIT license.

> But some vendors might not be able to release the source code. Maybe
> there are legal restrictions, based on licensing agreements
> (libraries, etc) and it would be too much work for them to go through
> the legal clearance process to release the source code to a classic
> DOS program. In this case, I'd be happy if they re-released the
> software as free (gratis).

Yes again.  Source for applications of any size will likely not be
entirely written in house by the vendor, but will have come from other
sources and were licensed to the vendor.  The vendor of the final
product may well not have the rights to release all the source.

Consider Star Office, which became the base for Open Office and Libre
Office.  Sun bought Star Office GMBH, the original vendor.  They
decided to make it open source.  One of the components of Star Office
was a database.  The one issued with Star Office was a version of
Adabas from Software AG.  Star Office's license for Adabas allowed
them to release binaries as freeware, but did *not* allow them to
release source. Sun replaced Adabas with a Base module that was
actually written in Java which they did control.  You had to have a
current JRE installed along with OO/LO to be able to *use* Base.
(OO/LO would *install* without a JRE present, but would throw errors
if you tried to  *use* Base without a JRE installed.)

And all open source licenses are not equal.  One development I follow
is Toybox.  Toybox is an effort by Rob Landley.  He was the former
maintainer of Busybox.  Toybox is an improved Busybox equivalent.  The
initial target for Toybox is Android, and several contributors to
Toybox are Google Android developers, because they use Toybox
internally.  Rob cannot accept contributions licensed under the GPL.
There are too many strings attached to using the GPL.  (And GPLv2 and
GPLv3 are not compatible with each other!)  My irony meter has pegged
off scale more than once when two *open source* projects cannot share
code because the licenses are incompatible.
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Jim Hall]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:12 PM, dmccunney  wrote:
[..]
> If Jim can convince Corel to offer source uinder a license that will
> let him add it the the FreeDOS distribution, I'll be surprised and
> delighted.
>
> If anyone actually grabs that source, and uploads new and improved
> versions incorporating changes they made to the source, I'll be
> astonished.
>
> Having it available under a compatible open source license will let
> Jim make it available as part of FreeDOS.
>
> Having it available as Freeware gives folks something they can *do*
> with FreeDOS, which may be more important.


I agree!

My view is "Ask, and they might do it." And "If you don't ask, they won't."

The ideal is that vendors might release the source code under a
Free/open source software license, like the GNU GPL. That would be
great!

But some vendors might not be able to release the source code. Maybe
there are legal restrictions, based on licensing agreements
(libraries, etc) and it would be too much work for them to go through
the legal clearance process to release the source code to a classic
DOS program. In this case, I'd be happy if they re-released the
software as free (gratis). For example, Trius Inc did this with the
shareware As-Easy-As spreadsheet. They provided an activation code
that anyone could use to activate As-Easy-As 5.7.

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:56 PM, geneb  wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2018, dmccunney wrote:
>
>> Best case, you get what Embarcadero once did.  They inherited the
>> former Borland DOS products like Turbo-C, and were offering them as
>> unsupported freeware downloads from a community link on their site.
>> There was no *paying* market for the DOS stuff, but making it
>> available was a nice gesture and good publicity for the Windows based
>> stuff they could *sell*.
>
> This was actually done by Borland, long before the stand-alone tools
> division (CodeGear) was created, let alone sold to Embarcadero.

Hmmm.  True, and thanks for the correction.  Embarcadero simply
carried on the practice.

But the point stands.  I don't see a *paying* market for DOS software,
but Corel might be convinced to make it available as unsupported
freeware.

Source code is nice, but not a magic bullet.  The vast majority of
folks who grab open source software want the compiled binaries so they
can *run* them.  The number of folks who are *able* to fix bugs and
add features because they have the source is a very tiny fraction of
the number of folks who will actually use the programs.

If Jim can convince Corel to offer source uinder a license that will
let him add it the the FreeDOS distribution, I'll be surprised and
delighted.

If anyone actually grabs that source, and uploads new and improved
versions incorporating changes they made to the source, I'll be
astonished.

Having it available under a compatible open source license will let
Jim make it available as part of FreeDOS.

Having it available as Freeware gives folks something they can *do*
with FreeDOS, which may be more important.

> g.
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[geneb]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2018, dmccunney wrote:


Best case, you get what Embarcadero once did.  They inherited the
former Borland DOS products like Turbo-C, and were offering them as
unsupported freeware downloads from a community link on their site.
There was no *paying* market for the DOS stuff, but making it
available was a nice gesture and good publicity for the Windows based
stuff they could *sell*.


This was actually done by Borland, long before the stand-alone tools 
division (CodeGear) was created, let alone sold to Embarcadero.


g.

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> I wouldn't expect them to ever release the source but
> to put it back on the market for sale, like it use to be.
> Not everthing can be open and free. If you tell them you
> have a million downloads they may feel there is once
> again a viable market for their product and will sell
> and upgrade their dos line. I thing that Corel still has
> alot of dos fans out there. I think alot of people miss
> the simplicity and practicality of dos. Don't expect the
> world to be completely free. DOS isn't worth much
> without high quality software to run on it

I wouldn't expect release of source, either, though it would be nice.
But neither would I expect release for sale. Who would *buy* it?  DOS
has been dead for years, and I doubt there would be enough paying
customers to make sales worth the while.  Actually *selling* stuff
involves costs to be *able* to sell it, and unless you are confident
of a decent sales volume, it's not worth doing.

Yes, FreeDOS 1.1 has gotten a million downloads, but that, by itself,
is meaningless.  How many of the downloaders actually installed it,
and on what?  How many are actually using it, and what are they doing
with it if they are?  (My own bet is that most actually using it are
doing do to play old DOS games *native*, not use stuff like WP or
QPro.)

Best case, you get what Embarcadero once did.  They inherited the
former Borland DOS products like Turbo-C, and were offering them as
unsupported freeware downloads from a community link on their site.
There was no *paying* market for the DOS stuff, but making it
available was a nice gesture and good publicity for the Windows based
stuff they could *sell*.

> cheers
> DS.
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

I wouldn't expect them to ever release the source but
to put it back on the market for sale, like it use to be.
Not everthing can be open and free. If you tell them you
have a million downloads they may feel there is once
again a viable market for their product and will sell
and upgrade their dos line. I thing that Corel still has
alot of dos fans out there. I think alot of people miss
the simplicity and practicality of dos. Don't expect the
world to be completely free. DOS isn't worth much
without high quality software to run on it


cheers
DS.

On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 11:29:10 -0500 Jim Hall  writes:
> >> I downloaded as-easy-as from your site.
> >> I didn't see a "LET command listed. Its a command
> >> that makes dos qpro special. None of my dos macros
> >> would run without it.
> >> Maybe you could talk to Corel or who ever owns
> >> the copyright and see if they could bring back their
> >> office software for FREEDOS use. They made the best
> >> dos software ever.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Robert Riebisch 
>  wrote:
> > Hi Dale,
> >
> > Would be a nice contribution to the FreeDOS community if *you* 
> take this
> > job. :-)
> >
> 
> I agree with Robert! I think it would be great for you to reach out 
> to
> Corel (or any other software company) and ask that they release the
> source code to their DOS applications under a Free/open source
> software license like the GNU General Public License.
> 
> You can reach Corel here:
> http://www.corel.com/
> 
> I just contacted them to ask about Quattro Pro and WordPerfect, but
> I'm sure it would help if others (like you) also contacted them an
> politely asked if they would release the source code to their legacy
> DOS applications under a Free/open source software license. The more
> people who ask, the more likely they are to respond.
> 
> On Corel's "Contact" page, you can chat online, open a ticket or 
> call.
> I chose to open a support ticket with them.
> 
> Jim
> 
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Jim Hall]

>> I downloaded as-easy-as from your site.
>> I didn't see a "LET command listed. Its a command
>> that makes dos qpro special. None of my dos macros
>> would run without it.
>> Maybe you could talk to Corel or who ever owns
>> the copyright and see if they could bring back their
>> office software for FREEDOS use. They made the best
>> dos software ever.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Robert Riebisch  wrote:
> Hi Dale,
>
> Would be a nice contribution to the FreeDOS community if *you* take this
> job. :-)
>

I agree with Robert! I think it would be great for you to reach out to
Corel (or any other software company) and ask that they release the
source code to their DOS applications under a Free/open source
software license like the GNU General Public License.

You can reach Corel here:
http://www.corel.com/

I just contacted them to ask about Quattro Pro and WordPerfect, but
I'm sure it would help if others (like you) also contacted them an
politely asked if they would release the source code to their legacy
DOS applications under a Free/open source software license. The more
people who ask, the more likely they are to respond.

On Corel's "Contact" page, you can chat online, open a ticket or call.
I chose to open a support ticket with them.

Jim

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Robert Riebisch]

Hi Dale,

> I downloaded as-easy-as from your site.
> I didn't see a "LET command listed. Its a command
> that makes dos qpro special. None of my dos macros
> would run without it. 
> Maybe you could talk to Corel or who ever owns
> the copyright and see if they could bring back their
> office software for FREEDOS use. They made the best
> dos software ever.

Would be a nice contribution to the FreeDOS community if *you* take this
job. :-)

Cheers,
Robert
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

I downloaded as-easy-as from your site.
I didn't see a "LET command listed. Its a command
that makes dos qpro special. None of my dos macros
would run without it. 
Maybe you could talk to Corel or who ever owns
the copyright and see if they could bring back their
office software for FREEDOS use. They made the best
dos software ever.

cheers
DS



**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
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***


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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[JIM GANTES]

Dears,
I need your help. I try to boot to my desktop (Windows XP) via usb-flash with 
FreeDOS (VERSION 0.84-PRE2 XMS_Swap). My problem is that by the normal booting 
check disk stucks to 27%.So through freedos I try to bypass check disk but I 
don't know which command I have to use. Note that using chkdsk command I get 
the message bad command. I also do not the name of my had disk in the 
freedoss environment. Among others I need a list of freedos command which 
corresponds in the freedos version I use. 

Thanks in advanceJim
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:

 No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you
 don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this
 goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC,
 FPC, FBC).

 They do now.  They did not then.

DJGPP started in 1989. It's not new. And it wasn't the only one.

 Since you *have* Linux, BSD, and even Windows, which support all that
 out of the box, why should anyone *bother*?

The whole point of a free DOS was to be a free/libre alternative
that is binary compatible on similar hardware! None of those OSes do
that!

There are *many* OSes out there, often touting legacy free. But even
they have to start somewhere. Most people don't create their own cpu
or write their own compiler. Heck, they port third-party apps over and
use similar toolsets and formats that are already available. I mean,
some of them even import drivers verbatim! Reuse is the name of the
game. It just takes too much work to throw everything away.

Sure, some people think it's better to throw things away. Some
things are of questionable benefit. But it's certainly not always
true. Sometimes you have to live with what you already have. Sometimes
the cost of recreating something from scratch is too much.

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Don Flowers donr...@gmail.com wrote:
What do you run as your production OS?  I'm willing to bet it's not
 a flavor of DOS.

 Linux (Kubuntu [Ubuntu/Debian derivatives) is my primary OS, but FreeDOS is
 my secondary OS followed by Windows 7 on one machine only because I recently
 acquired an HP Elite 8000 for under $100 with W7 preinstalled. I added a
 second drive for FreeDOS and Kubuntu.

I was actually addressing that to Rugxulo, but it's interesting to get
your response..

The current desktop he is a refurb Dell box that came with Win7.  I
maxed the RAM (8GB, for that box), added an SSD as boot drive, and
dual boot Win7 and Ubuntu.  Total cost when the dust settled was $550,
and it's more than adequate for what I do.

 As for valuing time, I have been disabled since 1990, (should have been dead
 about 15 years ago), so the time spent is valuable in the sense that I keep
 my mind occupied if not sharpened.

Certainly, but I look at it in terms of opportunity costs.  What might
I be doing with the time *instead* of trying to keep ancient hardware
running?  I have enough things that are of higher value to *me* that
the time I spend on keeping ancient hardware running is limited, when
I don't have anything meaningful to do with the hardware in the first
place.

What constitutes value is an individual and subjective decision.
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Don Flowers]

What do you run as your production OS?  I'm willing to bet it's not
a flavor of DOS.

Linux (Kubuntu [Ubuntu/Debian derivatives) is my primary OS, but FreeDOS is
my secondary OS followed by Windows 7 on one machine only because I
recently acquired an HP Elite 8000 for under $100 with W7 preinstalled. I
added a second drive for FreeDOS and Kubuntu.


As for valuing time, I have been disabled since 1990, (should have been
dead about 15 years ago), so the time spent is valuable in the sense that I
keep my mind occupied if not sharpened.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:06 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com
wrote:

 On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:23 AM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you
  don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this
  goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC,
  FPC, FBC).
 
  They do now.  They did not then.
 
  DJGPP started in 1989. It's not new. And it wasn't the only one.

 The period I was referring to was at least 5 years before DJGPP began.
 I was talking about the *old* days when PC meant IBM PC with 4.77mhz
 8088 CPU, CGA graphics, dual 360K floppies, and *maybe* 640K RAM.
 (Lotus 1,2,3 largely forced everyone to go for a full 640K to run
 enormous worksheets.)

  Since you *have* Linux, BSD, and even Windows, which support all that
  out of the box, why should anyone *bother*?
 
  The whole point of a free DOS was to be a free/libre alternative
  that is binary compatible on similar hardware! None of those OSes do
  that!

 And you don't *care*, because you don't *use* that original hardware.
 You long ago got something newer.

  There are *many* OSes out there, often touting legacy free. But even
  they have to start somewhere. Most people don't create their own cpu
  or write their own compiler. Heck, they port third-party apps over and
  use similar toolsets and formats that are already available. I mean,
  some of them even import drivers verbatim! Reuse is the name of the
  game. It just takes too much work to throw everything away.

 If you are smart, you do go for re-use.

  Sure, some people think it's better to throw things away. Some
  things are of questionable benefit. But it's certainly not always
  true. Sometimes you have to live with what you already have. Sometimes
  the cost of recreating something from scratch is too much.

 Lets get serious.  I run FreeDOS on an ancient box that I use as a
 testbed to see what perfomance I can wring out of limited hardware.  I
 do *not* use the box, or FreeDOS, to do actual work.  The box is a
 toy, and diddling FreeDOS is a *hobby*.

 On the more modern machines, I have a few ancient DOS apps I support
 via NTVDM (on 32 bit XP), or vDOS (on 64 bit Win7).  There is no need
 for FreeDOS there at all.

 There is still potential use for DOS in the embedded space, but I
 expect that is dropping as HW becomes more powerful and cheaper.
 Embedded systms are increasingly built around 32 bit ARM CPUs, where
 DOS is not an option but you can run a flavor of Linux or an RTOS.

 There are a few folks still using DOS to do actual work, and some hang
 out here, but they are rare exceptions to the general rule.

 I happy FreeDOS is out there, and it's fun to play with, but play
 with is the operative word.  If it did not exist, I would not miss
 it.  My actual needs are met by more current gear, and there are
 limits to the effort I'll expend to support older hardware.  I place a
 reasonable value on  my *time*.

 What do you run as your production OS?  I'm willing to bet it's not
 a flavor of DOS.
 __
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 https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:23 AM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:

 No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you
 don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this
 goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC,
 FPC, FBC).

 They do now.  They did not then.

 DJGPP started in 1989. It's not new. And it wasn't the only one.

The period I was referring to was at least 5 years before DJGPP began.
I was talking about the *old* days when PC meant IBM PC with 4.77mhz
8088 CPU, CGA graphics, dual 360K floppies, and *maybe* 640K RAM.
(Lotus 1,2,3 largely forced everyone to go for a full 640K to run
enormous worksheets.)

 Since you *have* Linux, BSD, and even Windows, which support all that
 out of the box, why should anyone *bother*?

 The whole point of a free DOS was to be a free/libre alternative
 that is binary compatible on similar hardware! None of those OSes do
 that!

And you don't *care*, because you don't *use* that original hardware.
You long ago got something newer.

 There are *many* OSes out there, often touting legacy free. But even
 they have to start somewhere. Most people don't create their own cpu
 or write their own compiler. Heck, they port third-party apps over and
 use similar toolsets and formats that are already available. I mean,
 some of them even import drivers verbatim! Reuse is the name of the
 game. It just takes too much work to throw everything away.

If you are smart, you do go for re-use.

 Sure, some people think it's better to throw things away. Some
 things are of questionable benefit. But it's certainly not always
 true. Sometimes you have to live with what you already have. Sometimes
 the cost of recreating something from scratch is too much.

Lets get serious.  I run FreeDOS on an ancient box that I use as a
testbed to see what perfomance I can wring out of limited hardware.  I
do *not* use the box, or FreeDOS, to do actual work.  The box is a
toy, and diddling FreeDOS is a *hobby*.

On the more modern machines, I have a few ancient DOS apps I support
via NTVDM (on 32 bit XP), or vDOS (on 64 bit Win7).  There is no need
for FreeDOS there at all.

There is still potential use for DOS in the embedded space, but I
expect that is dropping as HW becomes more powerful and cheaper.
Embedded systms are increasingly built around 32 bit ARM CPUs, where
DOS is not an option but you can run a flavor of Linux or an RTOS.

There are a few folks still using DOS to do actual work, and some hang
out here, but they are rare exceptions to the general rule.

I happy FreeDOS is out there, and it's fun to play with, but play
with is the operative word.  If it did not exist, I would not miss
it.  My actual needs are met by more current gear, and there are
limits to the effort I'll expend to support older hardware.  I place a
reasonable value on  my *time*.

What do you run as your production OS?  I'm willing to bet it's not
a flavor of DOS.
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:06 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is still potential use for DOS in the embedded space, but I
 expect that is dropping as HW becomes more powerful and cheaper.
 Embedded systems are increasingly built around 32 bit ARM CPUs, where
 DOS is not an option but you can run a flavor of Linux or an RTOS.

 There are a few folks still using DOS to do actual work, and some hang
 out here, but they are rare exceptions to the general rule.

 I happy FreeDOS is out there, and it's fun to play with, but play
 with is the operative word.  If it did not exist, I would not miss
 it.  My actual needs are met by more current gear, and there are
 limits to the effort I'll expend to support older hardware.  I place a
 reasonable value on  my *time*.

 What do you run as your production OS?  I'm willing to bet it's not
 a flavor of DOS.

Dennis, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're barking up
the wrong tree here. I think you're subscribed to the wrong mailing
list. If you don't like DOS, then do without. It's not worth
convincing you of anything.

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote:

 Using elvis 2.2, I was able to view and edit files in DR-DOS above 1.5 MB, but
 scrolling through a file of 3 MB was prohibitively slow; no such problem in 
 Linux.

I had bad memories of Elvis. Not that it was bad in features, but 2.2
was much more heavyweight than 1.8, and it always ran out of memory. A
quick check shows that Elvis 2.2 can indeed edit more than 64 kb
files, but the (HTML-based) :help almost always seems to choke and
die.

IIRC, the author just never had enough time nor interest to port it to
32-bit (DJGPP), so DOS was stuck with a somewhat limited 16-bit
version. It does say that it uses a temporary file, but I couldn't
find any trace of it (:sh), only something related to settings, no
temporary user file data.

 Maybe that was because DOS is not really made for large RAM.

Raw or XMSv3 can handle it fine (with or without DPMI on top).
Obviously DJGPP stuff has no problem (usually) with pretty huge
amounts.

There's an old file manager on Simtel (mirrors) under /fileutil/ call
DOS Controller (dc-sk.zip). It's closed source, but it's very small.
It has a built-in editor which allowed almost total free conventional
memory. A quick check under DOSBox (with NASM 0.98.39's nasmdoc.txt,
which is ~500 kb) shows 565153 used, 14239 free. It's hard to get
much better than that.

Back in the day, I used (16-bit) TDE 4.0. It roughly gave you 400 kb.
When Jason updated it (5.x), he converted the binary config to plain
text, plus added syntax highlighting. So now the real-mode version
(TDER) only gets roughly 200 kb. So I don't use that, I only use the
(new) 32-bit DJGPP version (TDEP), which can handle almost anything I
throw at it (within reason).

 Still, I prefer to switch to Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD to edit anything 
 serious, using vi.

You mean nvi, which is an 100% compatible reimplementation but with
(IIRC) unlimited undo, 8-bit clean, and maybe? filename completion in
the ex command buffer. This is unlike something like VILE, which is
more or less mostly compatible (but based upon MicroEmacs!).
Actually, wasn't nvi loosely based upon Elvis originally? Anyways, nvi
has some excellent docs, that's all I remember.

Though keep in mind that vi is considered very cryptic, so most end
users don't like it. Doesn't FreeBSD also come with ee as a simpler
alternative? And of course Emacs lovers don't like modality but prefer
modifier keys. Heck, Emacs can mimic vi, if you want.

 Apparently DOS, including FreeDOS, works better on an older computer than on 
 a modern computer.

No, but modern cpus aren't designed for DOS in mind (search mailing
list archives for speedstep or EIST). Most computers don't even
have APM anymore, so (worse, more complex) ACPI is all there is. Not
to mention (lack of) multi-core and 64-bit and (popular) network
drivers and (overly complex) USB.

It's not the fault of the OS but instead lack of developers
developers developers.

 I just went to drdos.com just to check the price for DR-DOS 7.03, was $79; 
 last time I looked previously, it was $39.

Dunno why, nothing's changed (AFAIK). It still good but showing its
age. I'm not sure it's worth getting, honestly, unless you really need
multitasking (and don't mind 64 MB task limit). Use DOSEMU!

 Download link for DR-DOS 7.03 from drdos.net is no good; links no longer 
 valid is a problem
 with much old DOS software.

Blame the popular shareware and FTP sites for disappearing. I guess
most people don't have much vested interest in software preservation.
Especially not these days with entirely different goals and a quicker
(more destructive) upgrade pace.

BTW, DR-DOS 7.03 was never freeware, AFAIK, only (temporarily?)
trialware. Even OpenDOS 7.01 was non-commercial only. Use FreeDOS!

 I still have and occasionally use Borland Quattro Pro 5 for DOS; dBASE IV 1.5 
 less frequently.

Well, that's half the point, to keep software compatibility. Most
people (reasonably?) don't want to throw everything away.

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote:

 Maybe that was because DOS is not really made for large RAM.

 Editors I'm aware of that ran under DOS and edited really large files
 used spill files, keeping what would fit in memory in RAM, and the
 rest on disk, swapping to disk as required.  On DOS machines, that was
 *slow*.

Most pmode editors (esp. 32-bit) don't need to swap at all if you have
the available RAM. So it's not slow at all.

And just saying it's always slow is wrong too. You can buy faster
HDs now than ever. Not to mention obvious workarounds like UDMA,
software cache, RAM disk.

 DOS wasn't made for large RAM.  The 8088 CPU machines on which it ran
 had an address space of 1MB, and 640K of that was usable by DOS.  If
 you had more RAM than that installed, you needed it seen as EMS or
 XMS, and accessed by convoluted programming.

No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you
don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this
goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC,
FPC, FBC).

 Still, I prefer to switch to Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD to edit anything 
 serious, using vi.

 Apparently DOS, including FreeDOS, works better on an older computer than on 
 a modern computer.

 Yes.  It was designed for older machines.  It simply can't use most of
 what newer ones offer.

No. Some things can still be supported (e.g. SIMD). But out of
those, only a few get done because of lack of developers and testers.
The other things are either mutually exclusive (one or other, not
both, can be supported) or totally incompatible with a
single-core-only OS (e.g. EIST). The really heavyweight stuff would
need an entire team of professionals, though, and we just don't have
the means to attract them.

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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote:

 Maybe that was because DOS is not really made for large RAM.

 Editors I'm aware of that ran under DOS and edited really large files
 used spill files, keeping what would fit in memory in RAM, and the
 rest on disk, swapping to disk as required.  On DOS machines, that was
 *slow*.

 Most pmode editors (esp. 32-bit) don't need to swap at all if you have
 the available RAM. So it's not slow at all.

Now, yes, if you have protected mode.  Back then, you didn't.

 And just saying it's always slow is wrong too. You can buy faster
 HDs now than ever. Not to mention obvious workarounds like UDMA,
 software cache, RAM disk.

Once again, I am referring to the Old Stone Age, when you *didn't*
have that stuff, and if you had a hard drive, it might just cost as
much as the rest of the PC combined.  (At the bank I worked for in the
80's, one of the officers in my department got a PC with a gasp
*5MB* hard drive.  As I recall, it cost about $5K, and half of the
cost was the HD.)

 DOS wasn't made for large RAM.  The 8088 CPU machines on which it ran
 had an address space of 1MB, and 640K of that was usable by DOS.  If
 you had more RAM than that installed, you needed it seen as EMS or
 XMS, and accessed by convoluted programming.

 No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you
 don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this
 goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC,
 FPC, FBC).

They do now.  They did not then.

 Still, I prefer to switch to Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD to edit anything 
 serious, using vi.

 Apparently DOS, including FreeDOS, works better on an older computer than 
 on a modern computer.

 Yes.  It was designed for older machines.  It simply can't use most of
 what newer ones offer.

 No. Some things can still be supported (e.g. SIMD). But out of
 those, only a few get done because of lack of developers and testers.
 The other things are either mutually exclusive (one or other, not
 both, can be supported) or totally incompatible with a
 single-core-only OS (e.g. EIST). The really heavyweight stuff would
 need an entire team of professionals, though, and we just don't have
 the means to attract them.

Since you *have* Linux, BSD, and even Windows, which support all that
out of the box, why should anyone *bother*?
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote:
 I remember using IBM's Tiny Editor, 16-bit for DOS and OS/2, in DR-DOS 7.03, 
 not open source.

 Tiny Editor was useful on IBM OS/2 installation floppies because of tiny 
 size, could edit up to about 350 KB file or a little larger, more in OS/2 1.x.

I think you're referring to T, a freeware editor by Tim Baldwin at
IBM's UK labs: http://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?T

I have it here.  Like various other DOS editors, it edits files up the
the limit of conventional memory.

 Using elvis 2.2, I was able to view and edit files in DR-DOS above 1.5 MB, 
 but scrolling through a file of 3 MB was prohibitively slow; no such problem 
 in Linux.

 Maybe that was because DOS is not really made for large RAM.

Editors I'm aware of that ran under DOS and edited really large files
used spill files, keeping what would fit in memory in RAM, and the
rest on disk, swapping to disk as required.  On DOS machines, that was
*slow*.

DOS wasn't made for large RAM.  The 8088 CPU machines on which it ran
had an address space of 1MB, and 640K of that was usable by DOS.  If
you had more RAM than that installed, you needed it seen as EMS or
XMS, and accessed by convoluted programming.

 Still, I prefer to switch to Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD to edit anything 
 serious, using vi.

 Apparently DOS, including FreeDOS, works better on an older computer than on 
 a modern computer.

Yes.  It was designed for older machines.  It simply can't use most of
what newer ones offer.

 Tom
__
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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Thomas Mueller]

I remember using IBM's Tiny Editor, 16-bit for DOS and OS/2, in DR-DOS 7.03, 
not open source.

Tiny Editor was useful on IBM OS/2 installation floppies because of tiny size, 
could edit up to about 350 KB file or a little larger, more in OS/2 1.x.

Using elvis 2.2, I was able to view and edit files in DR-DOS above 1.5 MB, but 
scrolling through a file of 3 MB was prohibitively slow; no such problem in 
Linux.

Maybe that was because DOS is not really made for large RAM.

Still, I prefer to switch to Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD to edit anything serious, 
using vi.

Apparently DOS, including FreeDOS, works better on an older computer than on a 
modern computer.

I just went to drdos.com just to check the price for DR-DOS 7.03, was $79; last 
time I looked previously, it was $39.

Download link for DR-DOS 7.03 from drdos.net is no good; links no longer valid 
is a problem with much old DOS software.

I still have and occasionally use Borland Quattro Pro 5 for DOS; dBASE IV 1.5 
less frequently.

Tom


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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Marcos Favero Florence de Barros]

Hi,

From: dmccunney on 8 Feb 2015 15:14:17 -0500:
 As mentioned, on the machine FreeDOS is installed on, I have
 multiple partitions and file systems.  When I set it up to begin
 with, I assumed FreeDOS would use FAT16 and have the 2GB volume
 size limit in consequence, so that determined the partition
 size.

Since I haven't seen people mention 4 GB FAT16 partitions, I'd
like to say that I started using them last month, and they've
been working perfectly so far.

I went for the 4 GB partitions after running out of space
because of digital camera JPG files. And I stayed with FAT16 to
be able to run Defrag and ChkDsk, which don't work with FAT32.

The 4 GB partitions can be created either with FreeDOS Fdisk or
with Linux GParted. However, with very old computers, if the
BIOS does not properly recognize the size of the hard disk,
Fdisk will only create partitions up to 2 GB.

Cheers,

Marcos



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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Marcos Favero Florence de Barros]

Hi,

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote:
 Just heard about LaTeX here and being curious, just want to understand -
 learn more about it. I use DOS Wordperfect 6.2 for most everything, just 
 wonder
 if LaTeX can do more. Looks like its a script language like HTML that has
 to be compiled to a PS file then converted to pdf by ghost.


and on Sat, 4 Oct 2014 21:57:26 -0400 dmccunney
dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:

 LaTeX is a document preparation system and document markup language.
 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX and http://latex-project.org/
 It's based on TeX, a typesetting system designed by Professor Donald
 E. Knuth, author of the classic The Art of Computer Programming.
 It's useful for things like scientific papers where you must embed
 equations in the document.

I do translation and/or editing of scientific papers, and often
receive the manuscripts in LaTeX.

Its distinguishing feature is the high quality and refinement of
its typesetting. My understanding is that MS-Word has not yet
reached that level, even after all those decades. (I mention
MS-Word because it is the only alternative to LaTeX widely
accepted by scientific journals).

I'm currently writing a technical book, and chose to do it in
LaTeX. The result looks great.

However, LaTeX is complex, and there is no other way of learning
it except by studying systematically, and even then, it requires
experience. It's like learning a programming language.

Same thing happens with LilyPond, a music notation editor also
based on TeX: the final quality is (so I am told) better than
any of the commonly used editors such as Sibelius, Encore, etc,
but it is much more difficult and less intuitive to use. But I
actually enjoy stuff like that! I used LilyPond a few times for
one-page violin scores, and the result is really great.



 It's worth learning about, but DOS is the wrong place to do it.
 The tools basically don't exist there.  If you want to learn
 about/use LaTeX, you really need to be running Windows or Linux.

Maybe you're better off running Windows or Linux, I'll concede
that, but you can do it in DOS too. I do it all the time. My
distribution is EmTex, by Eberhard Mattes, and it runs very well.

I have not been able to convert the source (TEX) files to PDF in
DOS, but it's easy to convert them to DVI files, and view them
with the included viewer program -- assuming of course that the
video card of your computer is sharp enough.

EmTex does have a few limitations, some of them having to do
with the DOS 8.3 naming convention, but it is sometimes possible
to work around that too.

EmTex will happily accept the templates supplied (and required)
by most scientific journals that automatically cause the general
features of the printed page to conform to the standards of the
specific journal: fonts, margins, spaces, etc. You just add a
single line in the beginning of the file, similar to an
include line in programming languages, and that's it.

Regards,

Marcos



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9-8295-6703 celular
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Marcos Favero Florence de Barros
fav...@mpcnet.com.br wrote:

 On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote:
 Just heard about LaTeX here and being curious, just want to understand -
 learn more about it. I use DOS Wordperfect 6.2 for most everything, just 
 wonder
 if LaTeX can do more. Looks like its a script language like HTML that has
 to be compiled to a PS file then converted to pdf by ghost.

 and on Sat, 4 Oct 2014 21:57:26 -0400 dmccunney
 dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:

 LaTeX is a document preparation system and document markup language.
 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX and http://latex-project.org/
 It's based on TeX, a typesetting system designed by Professor Donald
 E. Knuth, author of the classic The Art of Computer Programming.
 It's useful for things like scientific papers where you must embed
 equations in the document.

 I do translation and/or editing of scientific papers, and often
 receive the manuscripts in LaTeX.

 Its distinguishing feature is the high quality and refinement of
 its typesetting. My understanding is that MS-Word has not yet
 reached that level, even after all those decades. (I mention
 MS-Word because it is the only alternative to LaTeX widely
 accepted by scientific journals).

Word is a word processor, not a typesetting system.  There are things
it is not intended to do, and if you need those things, Word is not
what you use.  For instance, when books are written and published by
traditional publishers, a Word document is the original manuscript,
but the actual book is produced by importing the Word document into
Adobe InDesign for markup and typesetting, and a PDF produced by
InDesign is what the printer makes plates from.

 I'm currently writing a technical book, and chose to do it in
 LaTeX. The result looks great.

 However, LaTeX is complex, and there is no other way of learning
 it except by studying systematically, and even then, it requires
 experience. It's like learning a programming language.

Fundamentally, you *are* learning a programming language.

 It's worth learning about, but DOS is the wrong place to do it.
 The tools basically don't exist there.  If you want to learn
 about/use LaTeX, you really need to be running Windows or Linux.

 Maybe you're better off running Windows or Linux, I'll concede
 that, but you can do it in DOS too. I do it all the time. My
 distribution is EmTex, by Eberhard Mattes, and it runs very well.

I respect the fact that you *can* still do what you need to do in DOS.
I would not try.  There are too many hoops to jump through.  My
general advice to anyone trying to learn anything computer related is
Use a supported platform.  Your life will be much easier.

 Marcos
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:44 PM, TJ Edmister damag...@hyakushiki.net wrote:
 On Fri, 16 May 2014 11:29:09 -0400, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:31 AM, TJ Edmister damag...@hyakushiki.net 
 wrote:
 On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:30:22 -0400, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com 
 wrote:

 Oh by the way if you want to install XP on FAT32, it will work without
 being activated.

 XP on FAT32?  shudder

 I have always run XP on FAT32 without problems. The only downside in my
 book is the 4GB file limit. NTFS is overly complicated.

 What's complicated about it?  If you don't use optional capabilities
 like compression or encryption, you mostly don't have to do anything
 to use it.

 The aforementioned lack of support among different OS (owing to the
 complexity of the low-level implementation), as well as incompatibilities
 between versions of Windows and the filesystem itself (eg. the Win7
 installer would crash without explanation when attempting to install on an
 existing NTFS partition created with an earlier version of Windows)

That never bit me because I don't try to install over an existing
Windows installation,  I've always preferred to do a clean install on
a fresh partition, multi-boot between old and new versions, and
migrate stuff from old to new after installation.

I don't think that was an NTFS problem per se, however.  It sounds
like an issue with the Windows installer.

 Links are problematic. I have seen links to a directory inside its own
 directory tree. This results in  a situation where eg. a DIR /S command
 runs indefinitely. And the only way I know to remove such a link is with a
 sector editor.

Links are problematic if you don't know what you are doing.  I had a
Unix machine at home before I got my first MS-DOS PC.  I was delighted
when a facility I made extensive use of under Unix finally became
available under Windows because Windows moved to NTFS and NTFS
supported the concept.  While you *can* do links in NTFS, the
capability isn't exposed by default.  You need to install a Microsoft
or third party utility to do it.  I use a freeware utility called Link
Shell Extension that provides a right-click context menu entry to
create and remove hard and symbolic links.

I don't recommend links for most users because you *do* have to know
what you're doing,  But I do, and make use of the capabilities they
provide.

 I never liked the idea of file metadata (or alternate data streams, which
 are possible but not commonly used AFAIK) as they tend to not be preserved
 when copied to another filesystem, archived, or uploaded.

I largely don't care.  To the extent I do stuff like that, to copies
are between Windows and Linux.  Linux doesn't support that stuff, so I
don't care that the metadata doesn't travel with the file.

 Making a change to file permissions on an NTFS volume involves a
 minutes-long process of updating the attributes for every individual file
 affected (just a base Windows install is tens of thousands of files these
 days)

Depends on the change you make and the number of files affected.  I've
occasionally had to boot into safe mode to do permissions changes when
files imported from elsewhere came in with the wrong permissions
settings, but it was a once in a while occurrence, and not something
happening frequently enough to become a real annoyance.
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:31 AM, TJ Edmister damag...@hyakushiki.net wrote:
 On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:30:22 -0400, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com
 wrote:

 Oh by the way if you want to install XP on FAT32, it will work without
 being activated.

 XP on FAT32?  shudder

 I have always run XP on FAT32 without problems. The only downside in my
 book is the 4GB file limit. NTFS is overly complicated.

What's complicated about it?  If you don't use optional capabilities
like compression or encryption, you mostly don't have to do anything
to use it.
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[TJ Edmister]

On Fri, 16 May 2014 11:29:09 -0400, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com  
wrote:

 On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:31 AM, TJ Edmister damag...@hyakushiki.net  
 wrote:
 On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:30:22 -0400, dmccunney  
 dennis.mccun...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com
 wrote:

 Oh by the way if you want to install XP on FAT32, it will work without
 being activated.

 XP on FAT32?  shudder

 I have always run XP on FAT32 without problems. The only downside in my
 book is the 4GB file limit. NTFS is overly complicated.

 What's complicated about it?  If you don't use optional capabilities
 like compression or encryption, you mostly don't have to do anything
 to use it.

The aforementioned lack of support among different OS (owing to the  
complexity of the low-level implementation), as well as incompatibilities  
between versions of Windows and the filesystem itself (eg. the Win7  
installer would crash without explanation when attempting to install on an  
existing NTFS partition created with an earlier version of Windows)

Links are problematic. I have seen links to a directory inside its own  
directory tree. This results in  a situation where eg. a DIR /S command  
runs indefinitely. And the only way I know to remove such a link is with a  
sector editor.

I never liked the idea of file metadata (or alternate data streams, which  
are possible but not commonly used AFAIK) as they tend to not be preserved  
when copied to another filesystem, archived, or uploaded.

Making a change to file permissions on an NTFS volume involves a  
minutes-long process of updating the attributes for every individual file  
affected (just a base Windows install is tens of thousands of files these  
days)

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[Freedos-user] (no subject)

[kurt godel]

Have an old 80 gig hard drive with an HPA(host protected access) partition,
which is wasting space; tried to use linux function 'hdparm'
on it using an ide/usb adapter, but recieved message bad or missing sense
data, exactly what I get with flash drives and sd cards.
   Threw the drive in an old ide machine to hit it with hdparm, but the
machine is non-functional. My other machine is sata only.
   Any ideas to do this?
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[mcelhanon]

You could try using a SATA to IDE adapter in your other machine. That
would probably provide the low-level access to the partition table the
software needs.

Do you know why the old IDE machine is non-functional? If you have the
time to troubleshoot the problem it might be something cheap and easy
to repair and you could restore that machine for purposes like this.

Those are my ideas, good luck.



On 5/15/14, kurt godel wb2...@gmail.com wrote:
 Have an old 80 gig hard drive with an HPA(host protected access) partition,
 which is wasting space; tried to use linux function 'hdparm'
 on it using an ide/usb adapter, but recieved message bad or missing sense
 data, exactly what I get with flash drives and sd cards.
Threw the drive in an old ide machine to hit it with hdparm, but the
 machine is non-functional. My other machine is sata only.
Any ideas to do this?


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

Do you have a floppy drive? If you do then make a dos bootable floppy.
Find wipe on the web and download it.
Run wipe to clean the drive of everything. Your floppy should also have
fdisk  format on it.
After wipe is finished type fdisk/mbr. This should give you a fresh MBR.
Then use fdisk
to install a fat32 partition. Next format C:. Oh by the way if you want
to install XP on FAT32,
it will work without being activated.  You can also buy a cf  to ide
adapter on Amazon.com
and run a CF chip on your ide port. Another good dos program is IDECHECK.
It will read out
all your registers and test the drive for speed.

cheers
DS



On Thu, 15 May 2014 21:57:11 +0800 kurt godel wb2...@gmail.com writes:
 Have an old 80 gig hard drive with an HPA(host protected access) 
 partition,
 which is wasting space; tried to use linux function 'hdparm'
 on it using an ide/usb adapter, but recieved message bad or missing 
 sense
 data, exactly what I get with flash drives and sd cards.
Threw the drive in an old ide machine to hit it with hdparm, but 
 the
 machine is non-functional. My other machine is sata only.
Any ideas to do this?


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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote:

 Oh by the way if you want to install XP on FAT32, it will work without being 
 activated.

XP on FAT32?  shudder

 DS
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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Ray Davison]

dmccunney wrote:

 Oh by the way if you want to install XP on FAT32, it will work without being 
 activated.

 XP on FAT32?  shudder

Why the shudder?  I have never run WXP on anything but FAT32.  Currently 
it is on four machines in the office plus whatever is in the shop.  It 
is a matter of cross-platform access; everything can use FAT32, share 
data, and perform maintenance.

Ray



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Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[dmccunney]

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Ray Davison ray...@charter.net wrote:
 dmccunney wrote:

 Oh by the way if you want to install XP on FAT32, it will work without 
 being activated.

 XP on FAT32?  shudder

 Why the shudder?  I have never run WXP on anything but FAT32.  Currently
 it is on four machines in the office plus whatever is in the shop.  It
 is a matter of cross-platform access; everything can use FAT32, share
 data, and perform maintenance.

Why the shudder?  Dead easy.  FAT *sucks* as a file system.

The advantage is that it's well understood and widely implemented, and
just about everything knows how to read it.

The disadvantage is that it's the opposite of robust, lacks
redundancy, lacks any notion of rights and permissions because there's
no place in the file system to store the needed metadata, and $DIETY
help you if you ever have bad file system damage.

I've spent way too much time over the years trying to repair damaged
FAT file systems.  Have a problem?  Run CHKDSK.  CHKDSK will find an
assortment of lost clusters, and give them names like FILE.CHK in
a FOUND.000 directory.  Can you actually do anything with them?
Unlikely - they probably aren't complete and are unusable.  Your
normal option is to simply delete them, and the FOUND.000 directory.
Were they parts of something important that is now truncated and
broken?  Too bad, and you better have a backup copy of whatever got
trashed.

I use NTFS on Win2K and XP, and would not use anything else.  Why?

It's robust.  On the infrequent occasions NFTS has problems, CHKDSK
simply fixes them, and puts everything back under it's right name in
it's proper location.  The only time I ever saw that *not* happen was
when a directory entry happened to be sitting on a bad block.  CHKDSK
collected the files under their right names and assigned them to a
FOUND.000 directory.  All I had to do was rename the directory to what
the original had been.

It supports rights and permissions.  2K and XP introduced the concept
that there may be more than one user on the machine, and NTFS provides
storage for the metadata to specify what user owns what files and what
permissions that user has.  Through XP, Windows used the assumption
that the user of the machine was the Administrator with all powers to
do everything.  That changed in Vista/7/8, and by default, the user is
*not* Administrator.  That was a security measure. as many exploits
that target windows require administrator privileges to do their dirty
work, and bounce off if the user is *not* running as Administrator.
Under XP, you can create a  Power User (XP Pro) or Limited User (XP
Home) userid that works the same way, but you must be under NTFS for
it to work.

It supports links.  Under Unix, a directory entry doesn't point to a
file.  It points to a kernel maintained data structure called an
inode, that holds the information on the file's owner, owner's group,
permissions, and creation/access times, plus pointers to the actual
blocks on disk where the file resides.  This permits a level of
indirection.  You can have the same file appear in more than one
directory, or appear under several different names in the same
directory.  The Unix vi editor is an example.  Ex is the line editor.
Vi is the full screen editor.  View is a read only file viewer.  All
three are links to the same underlying program.  It looks to see what
name it was called by, and behaves accordingly.  You can have hard
links, which are all on teh same file system, or symbolic links, which
can span file systems.  A symbolic link is similar in concept to a
Windows shortcut, but more powerful. It's a pointer to a file or
directory on another file system, and the OS follows it an opens the
file.  You have to do some digging to discover that something *is* a
symlink.

NTFS5 supports hard links, and under Vista/Win7/Win8, symbolic links.
A Japanese developer wrote a driver that provides symlink support
under 2K and XP as well.  I make use of this.

NTFS supports compression, on a directory basis.  I make extensive use of this.

NTFS supports encryption, on a directory basis.

I multiboot Windows, Linux, and FreeDOS.  Windows is on NTFS.  Linux
is on ext4.  FreeDOS is on FAT32.  Linux has native support for NTFS,
and can see the Windows partition and access stuff on it.  I found an
open source driver for Windows that lets it read/write the Linux ext4
partitions.  Windows and Linux can both read/write the FAT32
partition.  FreeDOS can only see its own parition, but I don't *care*.
 I have no need to access Windows or Linux files from FreeDOS.

If WinXP on FAT32 works for you, fine.  I wouldn't touch it with a
stick.  Too much of what I'm accustomed to doing simply can't be done
on FAT32.

FAT originated in the days when hardware was much less powerful, and
the sort of file systems on larger systems weren't possible.  They
have been on PCs for quite some time, and I see no reason not to take
advantage of them.  I have no need to restrict 

Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)

[Dale E Sterner]

Since MS has stopped supporting XP, you probably won't be able to get it
activated, anymore.
Nothing wrong with fat32 unless you're really thinking BIG..

DS

On Thu, 15 May 2014 11:30:22 -0400 dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com
writes:
 On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Dale E Sterner 
 sunbeam...@juno.com wrote:
 
  Oh by the way if you want to install XP on FAT32, it will work 
 without being activated.
 
 XP on FAT32?  shudder
 
  DS
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