Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-20 Thread glen
Yes. Perfect. While reading your post, I started worrying about where race conditions and deadlock might fit. Techniques for overcoming deadlock seem to me like "executive" functions, pragmatism, or breadth-first search. And there's no reason we can't imagine a layered "algorithm" that

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-20 Thread glen
Fantastic layout! I have a few quibbles, of course. 8^D (2) and (3) seem like (informal) consequences of *simulation*. Most of the accounts for subjectivity I've found ... [cough] ... resonant are those that include the animal *modeling* its world and running an error correcting process on

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread Marcus Daniels
Glen writes: < So we might be able to measure the "emotion" of a chatbot by observing something like "stress" in the execution of the algorithm. If, for example, there's a recursive "subroutine" inside it, a deep iteration of that "subroutine" might indicate a more "stressful" prompt, whereas

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread Frank Wimberly
Based on his Facebook info, Jan died. One of his friends gives the details. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 2:13 PM Douglass Carmichael wrote: > Hard to imagine a computer saying “that’s disgusting” with

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread Douglass Carmichael
Hard to imagine a computer saying “that’s disgusting” with conviction. Ps: anyone know what happened to Jan Hauser? I can’t reach him from California.He did have a heart event' > On Oct 19, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > The test is whether reasonably appropriate emotions arise

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread Russ Abbott
The test is whether reasonably appropriate emotions arise without the entity being told which emotions it should have--not whether it can generate text consistent with a specified emotion. -- Russ On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 4:55 PM Prof David West wrote: > Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread Jochen Fromm
Emotions are related to a body. I don't think they are absolutely necessary, but I think some kind of body is indeed necessary to develop a form of consciousness. A body which can move around in two different but interconnected worlds, for instance the physical or a virtual world and the world

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread Gillian Densmore
Umm fun fact: the reason so much Ai development uses female models first is because of a much easier timer 'reading' the Ai's emotions. Yeah yeah. back in the day geeks being single males, was why. Now it turns out it's much easier to predict and model female ai's . Male Ai's for what ever

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread Steve Smith
On 10/18/22 10:21 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: A deep learning system set up for next sentence prediction, one that consumed gigabytes of literature, would learn to mimic emotions as expressed in writing.   It would likely have mappings of context and events to plausible emotional

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-19 Thread glen
This is another example of where List's "Levels of Description and Levels of Reality" paper might help. In chronic pain research, they have a severe disadvantage compared to many other medical fields because it straddles biological and psycho-social domains. Psycho-social measures are (mostly)

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread Marcus Daniels
A deep learning system set up for next sentence prediction, one that consumed gigabytes of literature, would learn to mimic emotions as expressed in writing. It would likely have mappings of context and events to plausible emotional descriptions. It would have latent encodings about the

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread Gillian Densmore
*list of things Cybermen do to make even the Dr yell RN! and book it to the TARDIS as well here* On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 6:35 PM Gillian Densmore wrote: > *terminator soundtrack here* > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:55 PM Prof David West > wrote: > >> Maybe lack of emotion,

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread Gillian Densmore
*terminator soundtrack here* On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:55 PM Prof David West wrote: > Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what it read > a being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is a sociopath or > psychopath. > > davew > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread Prof David West
Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what it read a being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is a sociopath or psychopath. davew On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: > When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck me that

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread Russ Abbott
When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck me that one way to test that would be to determine whether one could evoke an emotional response from it. You can't cause it physical pain since it doesn't have sense organs. But, one could ask it if it cares about anything. If so,

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread Prof David West
I an concurrently reading, *Nineteen Ways of Looking at Consciousness*, by Patrick House and *Mountain in the Sea*, by Ray Nayler. The latter is fiction. (The former, because it deals with consciousness may also be fiction, but it purports to be neuro-scientific / philosophical.) The novel is

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread glen
There are many different measures of *types* of consciousness. But without specifying the type, such questions are not even philosophical. They're nonsense. For example, the test of whether one can recognize one's image in a mirror couldn't be performed by a chatbot. But it is one of the

[FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

2022-10-18 Thread Jochen Fromm
Paul Buchheit asked on Twitterhttps://twitter.com/paultoo/status/1582455708041113600"Is consciousness measurable, or is it just a philosophical concept? If an AI claims to be conscious, how do we know that it's not simply faking/imitating consciousness? Is there something that I could