Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of Causality | WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers

[Prof David West]

My 1988 dissertation included a proposal for a model of cognition: vTAO
— virtual Topographic Adaptive Organism — derived in part from
Hopfield's 'neural net as water flowing over a landscape' metaphor. My
model, in a militantly non-mathematical manner, offered an account for
how "macro-structures" (at seven different levels) supported and
constrained observed patterns of thinking and behavior. Different
metaphor but I think it arrives at the same destination as Hoel's work.
It would be fun sometime, and offline from this group, to talk about
this with someone who knows math and who is willing to put up with
someone who stopped with Calculus in high school.
davew



On Sun, Jun 11, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> I just read through the article and was equally intrigued and
> disappointed... intrigued by some of the ideas presented and
> disappointed by the (mostly) superficial treatment in the article...
> of course, it is at the right level for the audience I think, so no
> harm, no foul...  I just need to take the time/focus to go dig out the
> references to the source material not provided and start with THAT.
> I'll be curious to hear if anyone else digs any deeper.> The whiteboard 
> behind Hoel reminds me a lot too much of the
> whiteboards the UNM team I worked with in 2012-13 on "Faceted
> Ontologies" rooted in Category Theory (Caudell, Luger, Taha, et al).
> I took photos of those white boards... somewhere deep in my archives.> FWIW, 
> It also reminds me very vaguely/obliquely of Quantum Coherence
> in Water and the work of many including Dr. Mae Won Ho, who Guerin
> turned me onto.> http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Quantum_Coherent_Water_Life.php


> 
> On 6/11/17 7:48 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>> https://www.wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-causality-consciousness/>>
>>   


>> I think you all will like this.  I actually think I disapprove, but
>> it’s late and I cannot remember why.>>  


>> Courtesy of a friend.


>>  


>> Nick


>> 
>>
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>>  Complex-
>>  ity
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>>  Strange-
>>  love> 
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of Causality | WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers

[glen ☣]

And, just in case y'all missed it in all the noise, here's ScottA's response I 
posted in the Graph/Network discursion:

On 06/09/2017 03:14 PM, gepr ⛧ wrote:
> 
>   Higher-level causation exists (but I wish it didn’t)
>   http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3294

And in there is an update linking to Hoel's response to Scott's response ... 
and so on ... and so on. 8^)


On 06/11/2017 10:43 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> I just read through the article and was equally intrigued and disappointed... 
> intrigued by some of the ideas presented and disappointed by the (mostly) 
> superficial treatment in the article... of course, it is at the right level 
> for the audience I think, so no harm, no foul...  I just need to take the 
> time/focus to go dig out the references to the source material not provided 
> and start with THAT.  I'll be curious to hear if anyone else digs any deeper.
> 
> The whiteboard behind Hoel reminds me a lot too much of the whiteboards the 
> UNM team I worked with in 2012-13 on "Faceted Ontologies" rooted in Category 
> Theory (Caudell, Luger, Taha, et al).  I took photos of those white boards... 
> somewhere deep in my archives.
> 
> FWIW, It also reminds me very vaguely/obliquely of Quantum Coherence in Water 
> and the work of many including Dr. Mae Won Ho, who Guerin turned me onto.
> 
> http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Quantum_Coherent_Water_Life.php
> 
> 
> On 6/11/17 7:48 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>>
>> https://www.wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-causality-consciousness/
>>
>> I think you all will like this.  I actually think I disapprove, but it’s 
>> late and I cannot remember why.

-- 
☣ glen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of Causality | WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers

[Steven A Smith]

I just read through the article and was equally intrigued and 
disappointed... intrigued by some of the ideas presented and 
disappointed by the (mostly) superficial treatment in the article... of 
course, it is at the right level for the audience I think, so no harm, 
no foul...  I just need to take the time/focus to go dig out the 
references to the source material not provided and start with THAT.  
I'll be curious to hear if anyone else digs any deeper.


The whiteboard behind Hoel reminds me a lot too much of the whiteboards 
the UNM team I worked with in 2012-13 on "Faceted Ontologies" rooted in 
Category Theory (Caudell, Luger, Taha, et al).  I took photos of those 
white boards... somewhere deep in my archives.


FWIW, It also reminds me very vaguely/obliquely of Quantum Coherence in 
Water and the work of many including Dr. Mae Won Ho, who Guerin turned 
me onto.


http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Quantum_Coherent_Water_Life.php


On 6/11/17 7:48 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:


https://www.wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-causality-consciousness/

I think you all will like this.  I actually think I disapprove, but 
it’s late and I cannot remember why.


Courtesy of a friend.

Nick




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of Causality | WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers

[Frank Wimberly]

I wonder how Hoel gets along with my erstwhile boss, Clark Glymour, whose
field is also causation and mind and who is also at Carnegie Mellon.

This spell corrector is getting out of control.  It changed "Hoel" to
"Joel" and "also" to "alcohol".

Frank

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On Jun 11, 2017 9:40 PM, "Nick Thompson"  wrote:

> Cult of the individual, Mathematics Edition.
>
>
>
> Wait till he gives his TED talk.
>
>
>
> Sheesh,
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Owen
> Densmore
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 11, 2017 10:52 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of
> Causality | WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers
>
>
>
> https://www.wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-
> causality-consciousness/
>
> I think you all will like this.  I actually think I disapprove, but it’s
> late and I cannot remember why.
>
>  Courtesy of a friend.
>
>
>
> ​Love the article, and it seemed reasonably precise.
>
>
>
> But. seriously, do you think we're all that interested in the background
> of the image of the author at work?
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
>
>
>
>
> ​
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of Causality | WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers

[Nick Thompson]

Cult of the individual, Mathematics Edition.  

 

Wait till he gives his TED talk.  

 

Sheesh, 

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 10:52 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of Causality | 
WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers

 

https://www.wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-causality-consciousness/
 

I think you all will like this.  I actually think I disapprove, but it’s late 
and I cannot remember why. 

 Courtesy of a friend.

 

​Love the article, and it seemed reasonably precise.

 

But. seriously, do you think we're all that interested in the background of the 
image of the author at work?



 

 

​

 

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] IS:New Math Untangles the Mysterious Nature of Causality | WIRED WAS: Layers, not broilers

[Owen Densmore]

>
> https://www.wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-
> causality-consciousness/
>
> I think you all will like this.  I actually think I disapprove, but it’s
> late and I cannot remember why.
>
>  Courtesy of a friend.
>
>
​Love the article, and it seemed reasonably precise.

But. seriously, do you think we're all that interested in the background of
the image of the author at work?
[image: Inline image 1]


​

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove